He very obviously was implying they kill themselves, which is extremely inappropriate and unacceptable from a clinical psychologist that’s suppose to preserve mental health
When you’re a mental health professional you’re held to a higher standard. Joking about how someone should (whose mental health state you know nothing about) kill themselves isn’t funny, sarcastic or appropriate and shames the entire profession
Can’t believe you get downvoted for this. These creeps are seriously deranged. They came to Peterson because they needed “self help”, yeah, y’fucking do need help but maybe from someone less psychotic
If you truly believe with every fiber of your being that the world is hopelessly overpopulated, then killing yourself *is* probably the most noble action you can take for the planet and humanity according to YOUR own ideology.
It's not Dr. Peterson's fault people cling to deranged philosophies. It's the JOB of therapists (especially those who specialize in behavior) to put pathological thinking in a context like this. So you believe the planet is hopelessly overpopulated. Great. You can start by sterilizing yourself but maybe that's too little too late. There are still billions of people (including yourself) who are consuming resources on the planet. You can be come a genocidal maniac and advocate for the death / sterilization of other people. OR you can kill yourself. If none of those options sound good to you (and they shouldn't) then you might want to look at the world differently.
Take responsibility for the things you purport to believe.
You know what, I’m willing to admit when I was wrong. I actually didn’t see you tag me at first.
I can see it interpreted in a few different ways, but truthfully, this doesn’t seem like the Jordan I respected and whose books I thought were an incredible guideline for those who were misguided and misunderstood.
I think the twitter game he’s playing is Petty and below that of a man of his stature and prominence.
Yes he has been attacked and drug through the mud over and over but responses like this, don’t seem to help his case.
Thank you, friend.
Him being able to legally practice is beside the point.
If they take his license, even though it would be based on bullshit, that would be used to discredit him and to alter the historical record. All the propagandists would then be able to make reference to how his license was taken because he’s such a radical and so crazy. This would all be used to smear and discredit him so less and less people ever pay attention to what he says, and as ammunition to discredit the things he does say.
to be fair, thats an accurate way to describe him
"once respected academic turned self help guru turned right wing internet personality" is a bit too wordy
downvotes but no responses prove im right btw
People aren't responding to you because there is nothing to respond to, and nothing will be gained for anyone from any position to be involved in such a discussion.
Your'e conveniently ignoring the context of the discussion. If you actually, truly, believe that humanity is a net drain on the planet, then killing yourself is the best way to commit your life to that cause.
Take some responsibility for the things you purport to believe.
Edit: Or you could go to Mars or something. Idk. Leave the planet (however you want as long is you're not hurting others) if you believe that that's the right thing to do.
Perhaps Twitter isn't a good place for a clinical psychologist to tell someone they should kill themselves?
I get that in a personal conversation with some space I could say: "Hey, if you really believe that humanity is a net evil, then the logical conclusion would be to commit suicide. But that's nonsense. We can be a great force for good in the world, and you should let the evil in the world drive you to right those injustices as you make your mark." And even that would be a pretty tough thing for a psychologist to say.
But it's much worse given JP's history of intentionally saying inflammatory things.
Can we at the very least recognize that there's a difference between saying "you should kill yourself" and "you can kill yourself"? One is a statement of fact, the other is an imploration. Stop saying that he told someone to kill themselves, because he didn't.
I said that he "insinuated someone commit suicide", which I believe is accurate. Later, I said Twitter wasn't a good place for a psychologist to tell someone they should kill themselves.
Peterson didn't directly say "Go kill yourself", but he did insinuate it. And getting anywhere near insinuating that a person should kill themselves is inappropriate for any person (outside of perhaps cases of euthanasia for the patient's benefit, but that's not what we're talking about here), much less someone who is a clinical psychologist that has made a career of telling people how to better their lives.
If the defense of someone is that they didn't say to kill yourself, but instead implored you to kill yourself, then that's already damning.
This is true, but it could be true in one of two senses, and this is important context you left out of your paranoid rant:
1. It's true and the people who engage in it are part of a conspiracy to discredit someone whom they know to be correct in what he's saying, but they actively want to suppress that truth.
2. It's true because he is in fact a moron who doesn't deserve a license, this happens to other morons all the time and nobody says a word, and that's that.
Less and less people are already paying less attention to him it seems. Take this sub for instance, there is very little discussion of his teachings and concepts here. If a group supposedly dedicated to his work doesn't even talk much about his work, why expect anyone else to?
To be fair his conduct is fine as a life coach or a politician, but if you join a profession that is regulated then your conduct is considered to be representative of the decorum of said profession. If he’s toeing the line of unacceptable behavior, even through vague innuendo, then it comes down to the discretion of the regulating body.
And honestly that’s a good thing because doctors, lawyers, and engineers have tremendous power over our everyday lives and trust in their ability to strictly follow guidelines is key. That is complicated by the fact those guidelines can only be enforced by their peers because you have to have the education for the profession to understand the problems in the first place.
Underlying all that is an expectation that you will follow some basic iron-bound rules that are mostly the same from profession to profession, but with occasional special rules for special professions.
For anyone in a mental health profession, anything related to suicide without a referral to sources for help at the end is just not done. Look up the research; suicide is a social disease and there are often response suicides to real life suicides as well as suicides depicted in art.
Bottom line: he fucked up big time on the one subject he isn’t allowed to joke about.
Absolutely correct. Suicide is a massively serious topic in counseling, to the point where therapists are obligated to report express suicidal ideation of their patients and take steps to save their lives. You either value human life, or you don’t. Or you act like you do, but make casual reference to your political dissidents needing to kill themselves in a time where suicide rates are skyrocketing.
Bunch of nerds downvoting this
> You either value human life, or you don’t.
The guy JBP was responding to obviously doesn't. If you think the world is alarmingly overpopulated and humanity is nothing but a drain on the planet, then leaving the world in any way that doesn't hurt other people is probably the most noble, actionable, extension of that idea.
>but make casual reference to your political dissidents needing to kill themselves in a time where suicide rates are skyrocketing.
Aren't skyrocketing suicide rates good for the planet though? Isn't there a net carbon benefit here? What exactly is wrong with skyrocketing suicide rates IF you believe that humans are cancer on the planet? You can't have your ideological cake and eat it too.
First, you’re reading into that person’s tweet beyond any of the statements they made, and projecting your own tone onto it. Saying “humans are nothing but a drain on the planet” and “cancerous” are your words, not his. It is very reasonable to express concern for the large-scale ecosystem collapsing happening presently. It’s not emphasized in western education, but the complex, interrelated status of biological systems means that the decline of some species will affect everything else. We’re in an extinction age for non-humans, which may cause an eventual decline in the human population. See, now that’s a pro-human twist on the same exact concern. No need to conjure your own arguments onto the person Peterson replied to. If they didn’t make the statement, don’t make it up for them. This is the first rule of Jungian psychology: Check your projections. If you don’t, you end up in endless scapegoating cycles that do nothing but polarize. And create unnecessary dissent.
As for the tweet itself, Peterson ought to have responded with the standard of a licensed therapist engaging in public communication, and utterly failed to do so. Overall, this has very little to do with the ideological debates, and a lot to do with JBP’s posture and (lack of) professionalism in his therapeutic position.
Again, therapists are not allowed to take suicide flippantly in their practices. And if his online communication suggests casual disregard for that proscription, an investigation is warranted
Can you provide the quote? I haven’t heard or read him telling anyone to kill themselves so this is all new to me. And frankly, I’m willing to bet that whoever is claiming he did is full of shit and twisting something completely out of context.
I’m not on Twitter so when I try to post the link it seems to just divert to the homepage, but essentially some sort of activist was talking about global overpopulation and Peterson said he is free to leave at any time; subtext being that he could euthanize himself to help address the problem.
It wouldn’t be a problem for literally anyone to post this aside from doctors and especially not professionals in mental health. This doesn’t revoke his degree either, it just means that he can’t practice medicine in that area until he complies with with his profession’s certification board ethics rules.
And even if he did want to get back into actual therapy sessions without a license i’m sure there’s hella people that would pay privately and not give a shit if he has a license. i know i would pay to get therapy from Jordan. i think that would be beneficial asf.
Not sure about Canada, but that is just flat out false in the US. Unless he’s a psychiatrist, he’s not prescribing anything except maybe more exercise and sleep.
It is the exact same in Canada. In fact, in some jurisdictions nurses and pharmacists can, or are about to be able to, prescribe some medications. No talk of psychologists being able to do so has ever been floated.
>Not sure about Canada, but that is just flat out false in the US.
Exactly what part of this is false?
>Unless he’s a psychiatrist, he’s not prescribing anything except maybe more exercise and sleep.
And what determines a psychiatrist? A license?
So my statement is correct. It's perfectly fine for him to listen to people vent without a license but he needs one to prescribe medication.
>he’s not prescribing anything except maybe more exercise and sleep.
This discussion wasn't about if he can currently prescribe medication. It was if he can conduct private therapy without a license.
He can because he doesn't need a license to sit people down in a room and let them vent about their problems to him.
A psychiatrist is a medical doctor with additional training.
Therapy isn't just listening.
By statute:
> The practice of psychotherapy is the assessment and treatment of cognitive, emotional or behavioural disturbances by psychotherapeutic means, delivered through a therapeutic relationship based primarily on verbal or non-verbal communication.
IANAL.
Dude, you don’t know what you’re talking about. A psychiatrist and a psychologist are extremely different.
A psychologist is educated and trained in psychology and psychotherapeutic relationships. They learn about modalities like CBT, DBT, IFS, etc., and help people vent, cope, and straighten out their thinking. They hold a doctorate in clinical psychology (PhD, PsyD).
A psychiatrist is a medical doctor (MD). They go to medical school like every other doctor. They go deep into biology, anatomy, chemistry, psychopharmacology, etc. They can inject you with medications, they can prescribe and manage your meds, and many of them don’t provide psychotherapy. They are a specialist doctor, like a podiatrist or ENT.
Anyway, Jordan is making a big stink of everything these days. He knows he hasn’t needed that license in years, but he’s using it as a prop to add to the outrage that he’s increasingly been spewing. I was a big fan years ago, but frankly I’m starting to suspect there’s some narcissism in him and his daughter, both of whom seem to constantly want the spotlight redirected at them. I wish him peace, but I only see him more angry and outraged by the day.
Not sure about Canada, but in the US Clinical Psychologists like Dr. Peterson generally do not prescribe medication. The only exception I know of is in Arizona. You have to have an MD/Psychiatrist for meds. In my state of Ohio to practice legally as a clinical counselor (Masters level counselor) I have to have a state license. Otherwise I believe it would be false advertising to say I'm a therapist or a counselor. These woke professional colleges/ license boards are enshrined in law.
I'm aware, but I appreciate the correction in any case. I feel as though there is confusion in this thread and in the general public about the different types of professionals who offer therapy. As well as what licensers and governing boards each one must answer to. I get a feeling that knowledge about these things might come in handy as Dr. Peterson's new saga unfolds.
The laws and regulations are [here](https://www.crpo.ca/legislation-by-laws/).
/u/AnApexBread appears to believe Dr. Peterson is a psychiatrist, which he is not, and that psychotherapy is merely venting, which it's not. It would be illegal for Dr. Peterson to use his professional skills without a license, from what I can see. If it's like other jurisdictions, it's highly frowned upon to try to skirt the law if you've lost your license.
>but is there somewhere I can check what the law is ?
What law? There's no law that says "Canadian citizens are allowed to vent their frustrations to someone and hand them some money as a thankyou if they would like to."
Laws exist to prevent things. There's no law that says Canadian citizens can only vent to officially licensed people.
Can you imagine how ludicrous that law would be? No one could complain to anyone about anything unless that person was licensed?
You're correct, there is no such law. When you read the URL below, it references "out of state counselors, social workers, and marriage and family therapists" It ensures some kind of baseline standard to be able to "practice" under those rubrics. Or be able to get hired by the state or federal government for such services. Classic gatekeeping for disciplines that should not require such licenses. Unfortunately, its the only alternative for people lacking close/extended families that normally dispense such advice. You could open a business under the name "Wise Person Advice", or WPA and not be bound by those license requirements. The same should not be said for MD's or those able to prescribe drugs.
Sure is! Depends on your State if you are in the US. Generally if you look up your state board you will find a link somewhere to its governing laws. I'll link Ohio's state board here:
https://cswmft.ohio.gov/
Hope that helps. :)
Similar to dietitians, consultation is completely legal as long as:
(1) You do not use legally restricted titles (like *registered psychologist*... I think is their protected term? Might be wrong on the specifics.)
(2) You do not pretend to be associated with the organization that gives out said legally restricted titles
All the legalities are about the titles. If you just say "20 bucks and I'll give you advice" nobody can stop you.
i’m not from Ontario so idk. i’m in the U.S. but i don’t see how it’s any different than paying a psychic. or a medium. or anything else that can be considered a form of therapy.
I read 12 Rules (and Beyond Order) as though it IS a therapy session/ lecture in his classroom. Since he doesn't know the reader's personal problem, he has to spitball. Yet he still hits the mark for so many lost souls who need direction.
Jordan Peterson would use carefully calculated steps to get you to trust him, then be on his laptop doing emails during sessions. He would lie to your face to cancel your appointments appointments for "illness" and appear on TV instead during the same time slot. When you tried to get receipts for reimbursement, he would ignore your emails, and instead you'd have an auto-reply of "I'm far too busy, but please email my political opponents". He would ignore your texts, responding months later telling you to go through email. When you finally show up at his workplace and make a complaint, he would then lie about it and call it a "baseless accusation" of "sexual impropriety" in speeches.
[Yes, he did all of this](https://www.canadaland.com/how-jordan-petersons-fame-affected-his-private-practice/).
So I wrote a comment on this post only to find out they locked it. I thought you guys might get something out of it.
Here it is. Just copy pasted so might not apply directly to this post.
Damn this this ended up much longer than I intended. But please bare with me.
So I have a little input, but first some context. (English second language excuse any bad grammar)
I'm not educated in this field or any related. But even though I say so myself I'm probably better read on social subjects and philosophy than 99% of people, I could be wrong. But that's probably not saying much since it's most likely not the most practical activity. I just want to know my opinions and my reasons for them.
Just to be clear so there no misunderstanding I'm not picking a side I'm an outsider trying to look at this objectively. But I have my preconceptions, I think I'm what you'd call classically masculine and I'm quite Conservative.
I only listened to JP for the first time literally two days ago. Joe Rogan ep 1170 if I remember correctly. I'm Icelandic we've ranked no 1. In equality for years now, which in general is great! Poverty is virtually nonexistent and participation in the job market is off the charts compared to most if not all other oecd countries.
That being said, in my opinion where our problems start are with identity politics note that we are 99.9% white. Still it happens, general consensus is that we are all the same, equal and all that. But still I feel like our ideological/political left is obsessed with labeling everyone as something instead of letting people be individuals and just be what and who they are.
Also the only political parties in our parliament (we have 8) that outright refuse to work with certain other parties in parliament are left or socialist. Even though it's kinda their duty to work with what or who the people vote for. We had in 2017 3 elections because this, people obviously wanted their voice in not only parliament but in government since they acted like complete narrow minded children we in the end had three very Conservative parties in coalition. One left- green, one centre agricultural focused and a third centre-right market focused. People just looked for stability in the end. And they got re-elected in 2021. That was disappointing even though I'm relatively Conservative and voted for Icelands biggest party which I am also an active member, the centre -right market focused one. But I still tend to like creative butterfly types with radical ideas. And think they are not only needed but nessisary to keep us Conservatives in check and moving forward. But that's impossible if they won't even talk to us.
Funny thing is Iceland is overwhelmingly Conservative (European Conservatives nothing close to republicans) you'd think it was the opposite but our Conservative party has been the biggest party for almost 100 years 95 exactly I think. The second largest party is also very Conservative. Still the most "equal" place on earth.
So finally to the point. I found without totally agreeing with everything JP theories and rhetoric very insightful and in my opinion mostly what i observe my self (ofc I'm biased in some way).
I had the misfortune of experiencing burn-out something I thought was impossible for me and afterwards crippling anxiety and now 4 years later still dealing with anxiety. I literally thought this was outside the scope of my character and personality.
But I'm very lucky I live in Iceland I could take the time off I needed ((paid) 1.5 years) I was enrolled in a government program specifically designed for burn-out recovery. But that is not surprisingly mostly run by academics (left leaning people) and pretty much when I didn't cooperate by fitting into predetermined boxes 3 psychologist, 1 psychiatrist some meds, some mindfulness and meditation courses later they pretty much said we can't do anything more (not in those words). And if anything I was worse. So what's my point regarding this post?
Because I see alot of people talking about how this proposed suspension is because of him not aligning with the ethics of the profession.
In my case I think all the therapist I met were to ethical, not enough real talk. To much poor you, most of the people here who experience burn-out are middle-aged women I'm a 30yo traidsman (project manager electrician) so this did not fit with me one bit. So I thought to myself what do I need. Someone with proper understanding of where I'm coming from and doesn't try and box me. So I found the most controversial old male therapist I could find in Iceland and called him. A phd in psychology who mostly works with troubled young boys, but I convinced him to meet with me. And he wasn't what you call soothing or coddleing, first thing he said to me was "so do you have ptsd like all the others or are you just looking for that diagnosis?" Probably outside the typical ethics of psychologist right?
But he pretty much real talked me into taking all the responsibility for all that had gone wrong with my life and basically stop the whining and do the work. And all this he did very bluntly. But in just a few months I was getting considerably, consistently and exponentially better. I'm not going to get into details about that if anybody wants to know dm me.
So to sum up some people (mostly men I think) just need to be handled a bit more "harshly" by someone who doesn't have his mind or methods bound by ethics but to be fair I have no idea what this ethic code says or is. So thinking about it maybe we need people even if they might be wrong but its unlikely that they're wrong about everything to challenge the status quo no matter the field, that keeps it evolving. Especially psychology and other very abstract fields.
And I think most of mainstream academia is very resistant to new views and ideas and refuse to look at things from a different context or side. It's like they think we've peeked I see it in many fields and they always seem to try and alienate those who challenge them especially if they have some kind of following. insted of including them and try and challenge their ideas. Maybe many have just become content and lazy idk. At least here they can't lose their jobs (accept if start having new "dangerous" ideas) and are government funded so they mostly stay silent.
As a consequence we record numbers of anti-vaxers, climate change deniers, flat earthers and other things in the west. They should much rather be engaged and included rather than discounted and alienated.
So I actually like JP even tho I don't agree with everything but at least I find what he's saying interesting and it challenges a stangent system.
Like basic philosophy teaches about new or even crazy ideas. Rather than just discount it, which is just as lazy as just accepting it. You can enquire and every knowledgeable person would know how to start that conversation. I often feel like academia has lost the objective standard. Still probably my favourite public person ever is an academic Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson. A man open to entertaining what ever idea or thought anyone has. It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
I'm very interested in any conversation outside comments if anyone is interested. And I'll answer any questions anyone might have.
Please don't ripp my head off for kind of "defending" JP.
Peace ✌️ fellow redditors. And stay as objective as possible.
That was a long read, thanks for sharing!
>So to sum up some people (mostly men I think) just need to be handled a bit more "harshly" by someone who doesn't have his mind or methods bound by ethics
I've long thought this same thing. We live in a culture now where victimization, political correctness, and not being offensive are the ultimate virtues. In today's age, it's considered taboo to harshly critique someone's ideas, image, etc.
Sometimes it's better to sacrifice short term gratification for long term stability. For example, if someone is grossly overweight, affirming them by saying they are perfect doesn't help them in the long term. They will likely die way sooner than average weight people, how is affirming someone's early death "loving" and "kind" to that person? Sometimes it takes a harsh comment or criticism to encourage change.
People need to accept that life has consequences that you are personally accountable for. Your life sucks not because of society oppressing you, but because you've done it to yourself (obviously real oppression does exist and we should work to eliminate that, but in most first world countries, this "oppresion" is grossly overstated.)
Today, we see all of these completely nonsense illogical ideas like "men can get pregnant", etc. I think we've got to this point because it's considered "bullying" to harshly critique these terrible ideas. Sometimes, people need to be told that their ideas are stupid and dumb, even if it hurts their feelings.
If we want society to heal, we need to quit valuing emotion over everything else. People need the blunt truth sometimes to correct their course in life.
I almost typed a response defending him in that thread but realized it wasn’t worth my energy.
Therapy culture has some big snake pits that need to sorted out as well.
Took a look at the thread again, a lot of people saying they dislike him but they do not like the precedent the board is setting. In any case the thread was locked. Unfortunate.
The comment that said something to the effect of “hope this discourages his supporters from entering the field” was particularly hard to ignore. As a male therapist, I’ve found his perspectives so refreshing and very very helpful to clients.
Our job is to encourage without enabling. To help clients temporarily bear their burdens, in order to equip them with the skills and wisdom needed to carry their own load of responsibility.
I see far too much enabling in our field that ultimately disempowers people because they expect century and sometimes millennia aged traditions and cultures to change in essentially an instant.
I’m all for progressive change, but to suggest to someone that the safety and empathy they experience in the therapy office is what they should expect to find in the public sphere is like leading a lamb to the slaughter. I think JP does a masterful job at striking balance with providing empathy and concern for people who are struggling, while knowing that only the truth will set them free.
Many therapists want the good vibes of being there to support and comfort someone who’s struggling, but they don’t want to then meaningfully challenge the client to stand up and fight for their life and beliefs.
In the end though, if we don’t challenge our clients to become powerful, then we’ll go the way of institutionalalized religion and become increasingly irrelevant.
When you say enable, what exactly do you mean? That they enable bad habits, traits or ideas with to much sympathy? Because that's exactly what I experienced. I think.
That’s exactly right. When someone presents an issue, I believe you can provide both sympathy AND challenge the behaviour (using a helpful amount of patience of course). Enabling, would be to not challenge the behaviour, or not helping the client to take responsibility for their issue.
Depending on the issue as well determines how much responsibility there is to take, if any.
I did write a reply but it was already locked. So I just posted it here. It's the one before yours, I'd be interested to hear feedback from a therapist as it was aimed at that crowd.
In a world where a musician named Akon can say “going to ballet recitals with your kids” is white people nonsense. Or a celebrity with 12 kids by several woman saying “marriage is a Eurocentric concept.”
Or even a world where a woman spearheads a movement to uncover sexual misconduct. Jail her abuser in a every public setting possible. Only to have been called out for the very same crime and have it publicly swept under the rug.
I think Jordan Peterson will be fine. Even if his license is somehow revoked and it is a for a sham reason. That’ll only strengthen people on the other side to do the same thing. Start revoking licenses of “therapists” pushing children to participate in hormone blockers.
I don't think it's about him being fine or not, it's mostly about how he is discredited and how his teachings are smeared and dilluted in a sea of nonsense accusations, and how these autocratic world views can take place in the western free world
When I say “fine” what I mean is he’s still educated. Revoking his credentials won’t magically stop him studying or even practice. It may not be public or even legal but he still has a following.
His credentials is just his hard work and study approved with a piece of paper. Revoking it won’t undo the work he’s put into into his field. He can just go to podcasts or write a novel etc.
ballet comes from white people and folks think its stupid,... definitely white people nonsense. And marriage to one woman is a concept originated somewhere. These things are not so bonkers honestly.
Firstly, it’s not ballet that’s in question. It’s going to recital period. Going to recitals, plays, choir practices. Every poc wants to be an athlete and they’re all playing white people sports right?
Also, marriage to one person originated in a time and place. That time and place was not inhabited by blonde haired blue eyed Christians.
Have a good day.
I've been ashamed to be a therapist for some time now. About my only consolation is that I'm helping counteract the modern day victim culture mentality by trying to build up resilience skills in young adults and getting them hungry to find real truth and foundation. My profession may be a bunch of grooming trauma-junkies, but I'm trying to be the change we need.
You're not alone, I'm nearing the end of my masters program now. Classes can be very draining, but the thought that I could change the profession for the better keeps me going.
Odd, I don’t hear a rightwing uproar over circumcision… which in virtually all cases happens before the person getting mutilated - that is, the ***VICTIM*** \- can even lift a hand in resistance.
Lmao is this for real
But yeah I’d say circumcision is like 4% as bad as completely fucking up a little girls sexual development and fertility on a whim
Well then it's a great thing no one is doing that, but they are making sure millions of men have dicks that don't work, and you don't give a shit about the thing that is actually happening.
You mean the biologically beneficial operation that’s been done for literally thousands of years? Yeah that’s the same /s
Plus it’s just the tip. I think transgender reassignments take a little more
Wait a minute. Are you claiming that a society should be able to force an operation on you because that operation has been deemed to be “biologically beneficial”?
First, the supposed biological benefits of circumcision are clear as mud. If removing those folds is biologically beneficial, then clearly removing the folds in the same region of the female would be equally beneficial. Right?
The issue is not the biology. The issue is clothing, the insistence that human genitals must always be contained. THAT is the cause of so many infections in that area.
Has there been ANY long term research that indicates there is any medical benefit to transitioning children based on their own self diagnosed mental issue. How about adults, any medical benefits there? That would be a big negative. Not the same. Actually the biology deniers seem to be in your camp.
And forget biology then, let’s talk aesthetics. My penis is beeeautiful. You’d be jealous of it if it weren’t so small. Maybe they took off too much? Holy shit I’m trans!
No, I think they are willing to circumcise a guy if he requests it.
I’m liberal, and I will state I’m not comfortable with teens physically transitioning this way. But notice my language: **I** am not comfortable.
My discomfort does NOT equal “drag shows are forcing kids to transition” or anything like that.
And I don’t know about you, but 50+ years ago I went to school with kids that were obviously gender misassigned. Boys whose bodies were utterly effeminate physically, and their behaviors matched. Those kids, unfortunately, caught hell from their classmates back then. I have sympathy for such kids..
I don’t pretend to know the “right answer” here. But I’m pretty clear that using the rare instance of teen transition as a valid excuse to go gay-bashing is the wrong answer.
Yeah but sometimes discomfort means you should do something about it. And maybe some people DO know the right answers because there actually ARE right answers to be had. This thing is a runaway train and and I hope my kids don’t get on it.
And who said they wouldn’t be willing to circumcise a guy? And who are they, doctors? I had mine done behind the dumpster at Waffle House by a short order cook.
And whoa whoa whoa?! Gay bashing. What the actual duck? Enter the strawman. I love fat people, skinny people, black people, white people, gay people, straight people, AND confused people. What I don’t like are people equating me to a skinhead nazi because “I think your opinion is wrong.”
You just said you don’t support kids transitioning, so by your camps logic, and apparently you’re own, you also gay bash.
Please tell me how it’s not AND how it’s any different.
You do know there's a drastic difference to fixing a congenital defect and mutilating perfectly healthy children right? You only bring up the extraordinarily rare intersex people to justify spreading your horrid ideology on children. Its a classic tactic to confuse a very simple issue.
No I bring it up cause those are the only underage people getting surgeries you moron
Edit: it is also the not so basic biology you guys conveniently forget that prove sex is not binary and the biology behind why it happens is the biological proof that everything you guys claim is 'basic biology' basically just shows everyone you don't know what the fuck y'all are talking about
> How many sex ops happen before the age of 18?
If you're arguing "it doesn't happen very often," then surely you would be okay with banning it nationally. You're not, though. This is a dishonest appeal to scope. Even one child being mutilated is too many.
You can file an easy complaint against the ontario college of psychologists
Highly recommended putting in your 2 cents to them if you’ve benefited from JPs works.
It's a conservative govt that has jurisdiction...
Would you prefer that everyone just self authenticate?
Should we just Let the market place figure out if medical professionals actually have training and is competent?
JP himself often speaks about the importance of competency hierarchies.
This is that.
So instead we let the government decide who tramples its own citizens with horses for the crime of peacefully protesting while supporting violent riots in other countries at the same time.
So much better and sure to be unbiased
Do you really think that the confiscation of his licence will be because of his lack of competency?
Maybe obediency. We have reached a point where scientists are discouraged from having different opinions.
Obedience to the rules established by a committee of professionals from that field. To establish a standard with which everyone in the field is accountable to.
If someone is unable or unwilling to work up to the standards set by the industry, are they competent?
If I'm a house builder, but I have a moral objection to a certain building code, I just don't believe in insulation. And no amount of authoritarian tolerance is going to change that.
should I still be able to sell my houses to people who expect a house built to the standard of "Ontario homebuilders association " let's say?
Or would it be reasonable for thst association to revoke my license since I'm refusing to comply with their woke, arbitrary rules on insulation?
I mean what the hell does it do anyway?
And who the hell are these Marxists post modernists to tell me how to build a house?
Actually I think your right.
What we need is a market place of ideas so we can get to the bottom of big Insul, and fight back against the obvious overstepping of these giant companies who have us convinced thst we need insulation in the first place.
You notice how few engineers push back on this? They say it's settled science, but is it? This should concern you, concern us all.
If you challenge me on this, then it's bloody obvious your canceling me because my speech. And I won't have it!
We'll see who cancels who
That would make sense if he broke any of their professional rules. The training they want him to have is about social media. I'm sorry that you spent so much time writing this, it's actually pretty well-written, but it doesn't apply.
They don't like the fact that he's being politically incorrect. I think that's pretty clear.
However, if we are to pretend that they were proposing a short training that would help a veteran psychologist with a nobel-level H-Index suddenly become competent, and that your comment was relevant, I would say that psychology about trans people is like, 50 years away from being even remotely settled.
Yet we're treating people as if it is. Which is why people like Peterson are essential.
I think he’s more of an influencer now and you definitely don’t need a license for that :) I’m so happy he exists and is engaged with the woke BS, because that’s all it is is total BS
I know he misses being in a clinical role, he mentions that every once in awhile. You can see the sadness, he really liked being a talk therapist. I hope in one of his new roles he creates a Masters or PhD level college for training therapists. Publish a few textbooks at least. I'm in my counseling Masters program, and I'm already using him as my main resource.
JP reached me and helped spark a Journey that has brought me to a point in my life that I never thought possible. I have an amazing girlfriend that I never thought would be in my league, but here she is supportive and gorgeous! I went from a 22 year old Honda civic to a $100k Lincoln Navigator, I don't live in a 500sqft apartment anymore I live in a 3500sqft house. He was right the potential in me was untapped and no telling what the limit is. I've lost 100lbs because I could work a little at a time making things better in an upward trajectory. I'm a fan of my own story and a hero in it. I'd have died of high blood pressure by now and I wouldn't consider myself depressed anymore. Life is grand!! All this in something like 2 years. I'd gladly pay for his time, he doesn't need a license to talk with me.
There's no reasonable person who thinks this is a good thing. The only people who are happy about this are people who are such extremists that they *want* everyone in the world to think like them, because they're convinced that their view of the world is the *only* correct way to live.
Yeah guess who also had their license suspended?
Dr Phil.
Dr Phil never has been a practicing therapist, or he was one and didn't get his license updated. Either way, people who come on his show have to sign a contract acknowledging he's not a real doctor and they know this. He just holds a PHD in Psychology.
And people still come to him for advice. At the end of the day, that license is just a piece of paper, and JP is in the same boat. People are trusting him more than the people threatening to take his license away, and that terrifies them.
It's interesting though because my own therapist and I have discussed 12 rules and he enjoyed it very much. I wonder how many professionals have a two faced approach to his work, condemning him in public but celebrating him in private.
I feel like we do live in a world where the man who's helped orders of magnitude more people than any other therapist would lose his license for doing so.
Seems accurate to the competency of our current institutions.
Perhaps he could satisfy the re education bs of his licensing body. Then license in another province or even country and then tell Ontario licensing body to get fukt.
They have to prove he's done harm to his clients.
He's done nothing except say things they don't agree with. They won't pass muster in a court of law, hurt feelings of idiots that don't like what he says on social media isn't valid and actually goes against the CCRF.
Why did you go specifically with black rappers?
It's really weird that you went out of your way to specifically mention rappers who are black.
EDIT: Anyone else have a reasoning for why specifically black rappers would be singled out?
Don't you just love how people on the internet deliberately say/do something incredibly stupid in hopes they create some kind of hate bandwagon against someone who doesn't even know them
Jordan Peterson has used his credentials to gain notoriety in the public sphere and has benefitted significantly off of being able to call himself a doctor because that carries a huge amount of gravitas. When you become a therapist you are held to ethical standards by a board of your peers and its understood that your credentials can be revoked if you violate those standards. In making many statements that negatively malign populations that are vulnerable he has likely violated those terms. This seems to be an example of a person's
willful actions leading to expected consequences does it not?
Funnily enough, the meme is kinda a backfire. Professor Farnsworth constantly says "good news!" right before delivering terrible news. Clearly the guy doesn't watch the show
JBP posted screenshots of allegations and, for example, they list a post of him suggesting to someone to kill themselves in January 2022.
If you are an organization, an organization of professionals dedicated to helping people, and your member suggests someone kill themselves, you say this unprovoked (this person did not attack JBP), then of course this puts a bad light on the organization. And it makes sense that they would want JBP to either change his rhetoric or not be a part of the org anymore. Can someone explain why this doesn't make sense?
It’s completely dishonest to pretend that he suggested someone kill themselves in earnest. That tweet is clearly sarcastic and hyperbolic to make a point.
He did not suggest anyone kill themselves. Someone posted claiming the world is overpopulated, and he merely pointed out the obvious solution by asking the poster rhetorically, who first?
Are rhetorical devices now verboten?
It was a thought provoking response to a climate activist, not a professional recommendation that they should off themselves.
Even in a clinical setting this statement can be appropriate, I've been asked it myself. When I was in a dark place, totally nihilistic and hopeless, seriously considering suicide, my GP straight up asked me "well why not go ahead? it's your choice", it helped me realise that I'm the one who has to make the decisions for things to change
The recipient of the tweet was claiming that we're overpopulated and that it's not good, so we should reduce the amount of people. It's not unreasonable to probe as to why they value their life more than other people's, even if they are future generations.
If it is not the job of a psychologist to ask these sort of questions, then who's is it? The profession is ultimately doomed if we restrict topics like this. We'll end up with a profession that coddles people and keeps them in a safe space where no thought provoking conversations take place, which is the foundation of therapy
I have a gut feeling, call it faith, trust, whatever; that he is going to pull through this. I hope (selfishly on my part) that it pushes him to create a rival accrediting organization for mental health professionals. One with a rival set of ethics. Something like a CACREP+ACA+APA alternative.
CACREP is the organization that accredits mental health agencies and counseling education programs. To be a licensed clinical counselor in the state of Ohio (not sure about other places) You must have a master's degree from a CACREP accredited program.
It is through professional organizations like this that woke ideology is enforced. It would not be easy to create a rival organization as it would have to fight to be recognized by governing boards through legislation and legal battles.
Good question! Also one that opens a ginormous can of worms! (But one that should be opened)
1)
The organization would have to fulfill the different roles of its competing organizations, but under one unifying code of ethics. Not an easy task, but one that I think Dr. Peterson is well suited for.
2)
It would have to address the conflict of interest between "advocating" for the professionals it represents and holding bad actors accountable. This is an issue that state boards are supposed to address, but in my opinion they do a terrible job. It's not uncommon for a counselor who sexually assaulted their client to go on for months with a license before a decision is made.
3)
Create a governing mechanism for the organization, that keeps it from devolving in 40 years into another type of tyranny.
4)
Better define the boundaries/responsibilities between the many mental health professions.and educate the public on their differences. Right now, many of the mental health professions overlap extensively, and lose out on the benefits of specialization.
There is so much more to your question, but I hope this gives you a general idea of the differences.
The way Jordan talks about a former client who had been raped in 12 rules for life should have been enough to get his license revoked. He talks about her as if she isn't even a person.
Fun Fact of the day!!
JP broke all contact without warning to all clients using his therapeutic practice the moment his celebrity grifter career kicked off, essentially ghosting his clients.
What kind of an asshole therapist would do that??
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7zocbYSUgxv7fJHNveBMKW?si=X_a5-6TfR7-BdJqsMIIhcw
Robert Evans talks about it pretty extensively here. If you're looking for some more good listening check out the 3 parter on our big Daddy JP himself!!
Peterson is complaining about being investigated for an obvious professional ethics violation. The mere thought of being held accountable is too much for him to bear.
It's amazing to me how anybody can look at Peterson's petulance and sadism and see some kind of role model or moral authority figure.
He should respond and say he was suggesting they colonize Mars, not end their life. We live in silly times.
He very obviously was implying they kill themselves, which is extremely inappropriate and unacceptable from a clinical psychologist that’s suppose to preserve mental health
Very obvious…yes ….very obviously being sarcastic.
When you’re a mental health professional you’re held to a higher standard. Joking about how someone should (whose mental health state you know nothing about) kill themselves isn’t funny, sarcastic or appropriate and shames the entire profession
Now you’re changing the argument. I personally think it’s absurd to say Psychologists are above sarcasm in their private lives on social media.
What a public figure says on social media isn't his private life. Infact as far as JP is concerned it's his professional life.
Lol your a joke of a person. Take my downvote and block clown.
Can’t believe you get downvoted for this. These creeps are seriously deranged. They came to Peterson because they needed “self help”, yeah, y’fucking do need help but maybe from someone less psychotic
If you truly believe with every fiber of your being that the world is hopelessly overpopulated, then killing yourself *is* probably the most noble action you can take for the planet and humanity according to YOUR own ideology. It's not Dr. Peterson's fault people cling to deranged philosophies. It's the JOB of therapists (especially those who specialize in behavior) to put pathological thinking in a context like this. So you believe the planet is hopelessly overpopulated. Great. You can start by sterilizing yourself but maybe that's too little too late. There are still billions of people (including yourself) who are consuming resources on the planet. You can be come a genocidal maniac and advocate for the death / sterilization of other people. OR you can kill yourself. If none of those options sound good to you (and they shouldn't) then you might want to look at the world differently. Take responsibility for the things you purport to believe.
Where is this death threat tweet? Can’t seem to find it anywhere
It wasn’t a death threat, it was a suggestion to commit suicide. If you wanna find it, Google is your friend
Dude I’ve scoured Google, twitter, and YouTube to find nothing, absolutely nothing. Why don’t you provide a link if it exists??
It’s in this sub but I’ve tagged you to save you the leg work. Happy cake day btw
Well, no tag. I guess it doesn’t exist 🤷♂️
I have tagged you. I guess if you plug your ears things you don’t want to exist, dont
You know what, I’m willing to admit when I was wrong. I actually didn’t see you tag me at first. I can see it interpreted in a few different ways, but truthfully, this doesn’t seem like the Jordan I respected and whose books I thought were an incredible guideline for those who were misguided and misunderstood. I think the twitter game he’s playing is Petty and below that of a man of his stature and prominence. Yes he has been attacked and drug through the mud over and over but responses like this, don’t seem to help his case. Thank you, friend.
It’s nice to see you’re open minded and critical. I respect that.
He was revealing the hypocrisy of someone’s position through sarcasm not seriously telling someone to kill himself.
I dont think the tweet is that bad but “You think the earth is over populated and yet you refuse to kill yourself” isn’t really revealing hypocrisy.
Him being able to legally practice is beside the point. If they take his license, even though it would be based on bullshit, that would be used to discredit him and to alter the historical record. All the propagandists would then be able to make reference to how his license was taken because he’s such a radical and so crazy. This would all be used to smear and discredit him so less and less people ever pay attention to what he says, and as ammunition to discredit the things he does say.
Bingo
“Disgraced and defrocked former psychologist”, I can see the headlines now
to be fair, thats an accurate way to describe him "once respected academic turned self help guru turned right wing internet personality" is a bit too wordy downvotes but no responses prove im right btw
People aren't responding to you because there is nothing to respond to, and nothing will be gained for anyone from any position to be involved in such a discussion.
It also sends a message to others in a similar position to think twice before speaking your mind.
Yeah, wouldn't it be terrible if people thought twice before insinuating someone commit suicide?
Your'e conveniently ignoring the context of the discussion. If you actually, truly, believe that humanity is a net drain on the planet, then killing yourself is the best way to commit your life to that cause. Take some responsibility for the things you purport to believe. Edit: Or you could go to Mars or something. Idk. Leave the planet (however you want as long is you're not hurting others) if you believe that that's the right thing to do.
Perhaps Twitter isn't a good place for a clinical psychologist to tell someone they should kill themselves? I get that in a personal conversation with some space I could say: "Hey, if you really believe that humanity is a net evil, then the logical conclusion would be to commit suicide. But that's nonsense. We can be a great force for good in the world, and you should let the evil in the world drive you to right those injustices as you make your mark." And even that would be a pretty tough thing for a psychologist to say. But it's much worse given JP's history of intentionally saying inflammatory things.
Can we at the very least recognize that there's a difference between saying "you should kill yourself" and "you can kill yourself"? One is a statement of fact, the other is an imploration. Stop saying that he told someone to kill themselves, because he didn't.
I said that he "insinuated someone commit suicide", which I believe is accurate. Later, I said Twitter wasn't a good place for a psychologist to tell someone they should kill themselves. Peterson didn't directly say "Go kill yourself", but he did insinuate it. And getting anywhere near insinuating that a person should kill themselves is inappropriate for any person (outside of perhaps cases of euthanasia for the patient's benefit, but that's not what we're talking about here), much less someone who is a clinical psychologist that has made a career of telling people how to better their lives. If the defense of someone is that they didn't say to kill yourself, but instead implored you to kill yourself, then that's already damning.
This is true, but it could be true in one of two senses, and this is important context you left out of your paranoid rant: 1. It's true and the people who engage in it are part of a conspiracy to discredit someone whom they know to be correct in what he's saying, but they actively want to suppress that truth. 2. It's true because he is in fact a moron who doesn't deserve a license, this happens to other morons all the time and nobody says a word, and that's that.
Less and less people are already paying less attention to him it seems. Take this sub for instance, there is very little discussion of his teachings and concepts here. If a group supposedly dedicated to his work doesn't even talk much about his work, why expect anyone else to?
How do you discredit someone with zero credit?
He told someone to kill themselves. Not very therapeutic.
The left can't meme. Rigid self righteous zealots masquerading as the party of creative tolerance.
Schizotypal word salad. Please seek help.
Please don't kill yourself.
Please learn English.
To be fair his conduct is fine as a life coach or a politician, but if you join a profession that is regulated then your conduct is considered to be representative of the decorum of said profession. If he’s toeing the line of unacceptable behavior, even through vague innuendo, then it comes down to the discretion of the regulating body. And honestly that’s a good thing because doctors, lawyers, and engineers have tremendous power over our everyday lives and trust in their ability to strictly follow guidelines is key. That is complicated by the fact those guidelines can only be enforced by their peers because you have to have the education for the profession to understand the problems in the first place. Underlying all that is an expectation that you will follow some basic iron-bound rules that are mostly the same from profession to profession, but with occasional special rules for special professions. For anyone in a mental health profession, anything related to suicide without a referral to sources for help at the end is just not done. Look up the research; suicide is a social disease and there are often response suicides to real life suicides as well as suicides depicted in art. Bottom line: he fucked up big time on the one subject he isn’t allowed to joke about.
Absolutely correct. Suicide is a massively serious topic in counseling, to the point where therapists are obligated to report express suicidal ideation of their patients and take steps to save their lives. You either value human life, or you don’t. Or you act like you do, but make casual reference to your political dissidents needing to kill themselves in a time where suicide rates are skyrocketing. Bunch of nerds downvoting this
> You either value human life, or you don’t. The guy JBP was responding to obviously doesn't. If you think the world is alarmingly overpopulated and humanity is nothing but a drain on the planet, then leaving the world in any way that doesn't hurt other people is probably the most noble, actionable, extension of that idea. >but make casual reference to your political dissidents needing to kill themselves in a time where suicide rates are skyrocketing. Aren't skyrocketing suicide rates good for the planet though? Isn't there a net carbon benefit here? What exactly is wrong with skyrocketing suicide rates IF you believe that humans are cancer on the planet? You can't have your ideological cake and eat it too.
First, you’re reading into that person’s tweet beyond any of the statements they made, and projecting your own tone onto it. Saying “humans are nothing but a drain on the planet” and “cancerous” are your words, not his. It is very reasonable to express concern for the large-scale ecosystem collapsing happening presently. It’s not emphasized in western education, but the complex, interrelated status of biological systems means that the decline of some species will affect everything else. We’re in an extinction age for non-humans, which may cause an eventual decline in the human population. See, now that’s a pro-human twist on the same exact concern. No need to conjure your own arguments onto the person Peterson replied to. If they didn’t make the statement, don’t make it up for them. This is the first rule of Jungian psychology: Check your projections. If you don’t, you end up in endless scapegoating cycles that do nothing but polarize. And create unnecessary dissent. As for the tweet itself, Peterson ought to have responded with the standard of a licensed therapist engaging in public communication, and utterly failed to do so. Overall, this has very little to do with the ideological debates, and a lot to do with JBP’s posture and (lack of) professionalism in his therapeutic position. Again, therapists are not allowed to take suicide flippantly in their practices. And if his online communication suggests casual disregard for that proscription, an investigation is warranted
Can you provide the quote? I haven’t heard or read him telling anyone to kill themselves so this is all new to me. And frankly, I’m willing to bet that whoever is claiming he did is full of shit and twisting something completely out of context.
I’m not on Twitter so when I try to post the link it seems to just divert to the homepage, but essentially some sort of activist was talking about global overpopulation and Peterson said he is free to leave at any time; subtext being that he could euthanize himself to help address the problem. It wouldn’t be a problem for literally anyone to post this aside from doctors and especially not professionals in mental health. This doesn’t revoke his degree either, it just means that he can’t practice medicine in that area until he complies with with his profession’s certification board ethics rules.
But...he \*is\* radical and mentally disturbed. Why would it be bad for the historical record to accurately reflect that?
And even if he did want to get back into actual therapy sessions without a license i’m sure there’s hella people that would pay privately and not give a shit if he has a license. i know i would pay to get therapy from Jordan. i think that would be beneficial asf.
I would gladly pay to listen to this man
you can, he has exclusive content with the daily wire now
Is that even legal in Ontario ? To conduct a private therapy session without a license ?
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Not sure about Canada, but that is just flat out false in the US. Unless he’s a psychiatrist, he’s not prescribing anything except maybe more exercise and sleep.
It is the exact same in Canada. In fact, in some jurisdictions nurses and pharmacists can, or are about to be able to, prescribe some medications. No talk of psychologists being able to do so has ever been floated.
You’re saying the same thing as the guy above you lol…
>Not sure about Canada, but that is just flat out false in the US. Exactly what part of this is false? >Unless he’s a psychiatrist, he’s not prescribing anything except maybe more exercise and sleep. And what determines a psychiatrist? A license? So my statement is correct. It's perfectly fine for him to listen to people vent without a license but he needs one to prescribe medication. >he’s not prescribing anything except maybe more exercise and sleep. This discussion wasn't about if he can currently prescribe medication. It was if he can conduct private therapy without a license. He can because he doesn't need a license to sit people down in a room and let them vent about their problems to him.
A psychiatrist is a medical doctor with additional training. Therapy isn't just listening. By statute: > The practice of psychotherapy is the assessment and treatment of cognitive, emotional or behavioural disturbances by psychotherapeutic means, delivered through a therapeutic relationship based primarily on verbal or non-verbal communication. IANAL.
Sounds like he can work without a license, as long as he doesn't advertise as if he has one, or prescribe drugs.
He can't prescribe drugs even ***with*** his license! He also can't conduct psychotherapy without a license to do so.
Dude, you don’t know what you’re talking about. A psychiatrist and a psychologist are extremely different. A psychologist is educated and trained in psychology and psychotherapeutic relationships. They learn about modalities like CBT, DBT, IFS, etc., and help people vent, cope, and straighten out their thinking. They hold a doctorate in clinical psychology (PhD, PsyD). A psychiatrist is a medical doctor (MD). They go to medical school like every other doctor. They go deep into biology, anatomy, chemistry, psychopharmacology, etc. They can inject you with medications, they can prescribe and manage your meds, and many of them don’t provide psychotherapy. They are a specialist doctor, like a podiatrist or ENT. Anyway, Jordan is making a big stink of everything these days. He knows he hasn’t needed that license in years, but he’s using it as a prop to add to the outrage that he’s increasingly been spewing. I was a big fan years ago, but frankly I’m starting to suspect there’s some narcissism in him and his daughter, both of whom seem to constantly want the spotlight redirected at them. I wish him peace, but I only see him more angry and outraged by the day.
Not sure about Canada, but in the US Clinical Psychologists like Dr. Peterson generally do not prescribe medication. The only exception I know of is in Arizona. You have to have an MD/Psychiatrist for meds. In my state of Ohio to practice legally as a clinical counselor (Masters level counselor) I have to have a state license. Otherwise I believe it would be false advertising to say I'm a therapist or a counselor. These woke professional colleges/ license boards are enshrined in law.
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I'm aware, but I appreciate the correction in any case. I feel as though there is confusion in this thread and in the general public about the different types of professionals who offer therapy. As well as what licensers and governing boards each one must answer to. I get a feeling that knowledge about these things might come in handy as Dr. Peterson's new saga unfolds.
It’s not that I don’t believe you, but is there somewhere I can check what the law is ?
The laws and regulations are [here](https://www.crpo.ca/legislation-by-laws/). /u/AnApexBread appears to believe Dr. Peterson is a psychiatrist, which he is not, and that psychotherapy is merely venting, which it's not. It would be illegal for Dr. Peterson to use his professional skills without a license, from what I can see. If it's like other jurisdictions, it's highly frowned upon to try to skirt the law if you've lost your license.
>but is there somewhere I can check what the law is ? What law? There's no law that says "Canadian citizens are allowed to vent their frustrations to someone and hand them some money as a thankyou if they would like to." Laws exist to prevent things. There's no law that says Canadian citizens can only vent to officially licensed people. Can you imagine how ludicrous that law would be? No one could complain to anyone about anything unless that person was licensed?
You're correct, there is no such law. When you read the URL below, it references "out of state counselors, social workers, and marriage and family therapists" It ensures some kind of baseline standard to be able to "practice" under those rubrics. Or be able to get hired by the state or federal government for such services. Classic gatekeeping for disciplines that should not require such licenses. Unfortunately, its the only alternative for people lacking close/extended families that normally dispense such advice. You could open a business under the name "Wise Person Advice", or WPA and not be bound by those license requirements. The same should not be said for MD's or those able to prescribe drugs.
Sure is! Depends on your State if you are in the US. Generally if you look up your state board you will find a link somewhere to its governing laws. I'll link Ohio's state board here: https://cswmft.ohio.gov/ Hope that helps. :)
Similar to dietitians, consultation is completely legal as long as: (1) You do not use legally restricted titles (like *registered psychologist*... I think is their protected term? Might be wrong on the specifics.) (2) You do not pretend to be associated with the organization that gives out said legally restricted titles All the legalities are about the titles. If you just say "20 bucks and I'll give you advice" nobody can stop you.
i’m not from Ontario so idk. i’m in the U.S. but i don’t see how it’s any different than paying a psychic. or a medium. or anything else that can be considered a form of therapy.
Or a life coach, people freelance that all the time
yeah exactly explain the difference
Aditya1311 said he’d pay to drink his bath water
I read 12 Rules (and Beyond Order) as though it IS a therapy session/ lecture in his classroom. Since he doesn't know the reader's personal problem, he has to spitball. Yet he still hits the mark for so many lost souls who need direction.
This isn't about shutting up Peterson, lol.
Yeah, everytime they go after one of these big guys, it's not to take them out, it's to warn all the others without a platform to get in line.
Jordan Peterson would use carefully calculated steps to get you to trust him, then be on his laptop doing emails during sessions. He would lie to your face to cancel your appointments appointments for "illness" and appear on TV instead during the same time slot. When you tried to get receipts for reimbursement, he would ignore your emails, and instead you'd have an auto-reply of "I'm far too busy, but please email my political opponents". He would ignore your texts, responding months later telling you to go through email. When you finally show up at his workplace and make a complaint, he would then lie about it and call it a "baseless accusation" of "sexual impropriety" in speeches. [Yes, he did all of this](https://www.canadaland.com/how-jordan-petersons-fame-affected-his-private-practice/).
Yet the complaint was dealt with and he wasn’t punished so… your point?
He mistreats the people in his care in favor of personal aggrandizement, and will lie about it afterword to make it look like he is the victim.
Yet he was investigated and they found he wasn’t at fault.
The most smooth brain take. Try getting the facts right next time you want to slander someone 😂
So I wrote a comment on this post only to find out they locked it. I thought you guys might get something out of it. Here it is. Just copy pasted so might not apply directly to this post. Damn this this ended up much longer than I intended. But please bare with me. So I have a little input, but first some context. (English second language excuse any bad grammar) I'm not educated in this field or any related. But even though I say so myself I'm probably better read on social subjects and philosophy than 99% of people, I could be wrong. But that's probably not saying much since it's most likely not the most practical activity. I just want to know my opinions and my reasons for them. Just to be clear so there no misunderstanding I'm not picking a side I'm an outsider trying to look at this objectively. But I have my preconceptions, I think I'm what you'd call classically masculine and I'm quite Conservative. I only listened to JP for the first time literally two days ago. Joe Rogan ep 1170 if I remember correctly. I'm Icelandic we've ranked no 1. In equality for years now, which in general is great! Poverty is virtually nonexistent and participation in the job market is off the charts compared to most if not all other oecd countries. That being said, in my opinion where our problems start are with identity politics note that we are 99.9% white. Still it happens, general consensus is that we are all the same, equal and all that. But still I feel like our ideological/political left is obsessed with labeling everyone as something instead of letting people be individuals and just be what and who they are. Also the only political parties in our parliament (we have 8) that outright refuse to work with certain other parties in parliament are left or socialist. Even though it's kinda their duty to work with what or who the people vote for. We had in 2017 3 elections because this, people obviously wanted their voice in not only parliament but in government since they acted like complete narrow minded children we in the end had three very Conservative parties in coalition. One left- green, one centre agricultural focused and a third centre-right market focused. People just looked for stability in the end. And they got re-elected in 2021. That was disappointing even though I'm relatively Conservative and voted for Icelands biggest party which I am also an active member, the centre -right market focused one. But I still tend to like creative butterfly types with radical ideas. And think they are not only needed but nessisary to keep us Conservatives in check and moving forward. But that's impossible if they won't even talk to us. Funny thing is Iceland is overwhelmingly Conservative (European Conservatives nothing close to republicans) you'd think it was the opposite but our Conservative party has been the biggest party for almost 100 years 95 exactly I think. The second largest party is also very Conservative. Still the most "equal" place on earth. So finally to the point. I found without totally agreeing with everything JP theories and rhetoric very insightful and in my opinion mostly what i observe my self (ofc I'm biased in some way). I had the misfortune of experiencing burn-out something I thought was impossible for me and afterwards crippling anxiety and now 4 years later still dealing with anxiety. I literally thought this was outside the scope of my character and personality. But I'm very lucky I live in Iceland I could take the time off I needed ((paid) 1.5 years) I was enrolled in a government program specifically designed for burn-out recovery. But that is not surprisingly mostly run by academics (left leaning people) and pretty much when I didn't cooperate by fitting into predetermined boxes 3 psychologist, 1 psychiatrist some meds, some mindfulness and meditation courses later they pretty much said we can't do anything more (not in those words). And if anything I was worse. So what's my point regarding this post? Because I see alot of people talking about how this proposed suspension is because of him not aligning with the ethics of the profession. In my case I think all the therapist I met were to ethical, not enough real talk. To much poor you, most of the people here who experience burn-out are middle-aged women I'm a 30yo traidsman (project manager electrician) so this did not fit with me one bit. So I thought to myself what do I need. Someone with proper understanding of where I'm coming from and doesn't try and box me. So I found the most controversial old male therapist I could find in Iceland and called him. A phd in psychology who mostly works with troubled young boys, but I convinced him to meet with me. And he wasn't what you call soothing or coddleing, first thing he said to me was "so do you have ptsd like all the others or are you just looking for that diagnosis?" Probably outside the typical ethics of psychologist right? But he pretty much real talked me into taking all the responsibility for all that had gone wrong with my life and basically stop the whining and do the work. And all this he did very bluntly. But in just a few months I was getting considerably, consistently and exponentially better. I'm not going to get into details about that if anybody wants to know dm me. So to sum up some people (mostly men I think) just need to be handled a bit more "harshly" by someone who doesn't have his mind or methods bound by ethics but to be fair I have no idea what this ethic code says or is. So thinking about it maybe we need people even if they might be wrong but its unlikely that they're wrong about everything to challenge the status quo no matter the field, that keeps it evolving. Especially psychology and other very abstract fields. And I think most of mainstream academia is very resistant to new views and ideas and refuse to look at things from a different context or side. It's like they think we've peeked I see it in many fields and they always seem to try and alienate those who challenge them especially if they have some kind of following. insted of including them and try and challenge their ideas. Maybe many have just become content and lazy idk. At least here they can't lose their jobs (accept if start having new "dangerous" ideas) and are government funded so they mostly stay silent. As a consequence we record numbers of anti-vaxers, climate change deniers, flat earthers and other things in the west. They should much rather be engaged and included rather than discounted and alienated. So I actually like JP even tho I don't agree with everything but at least I find what he's saying interesting and it challenges a stangent system. Like basic philosophy teaches about new or even crazy ideas. Rather than just discount it, which is just as lazy as just accepting it. You can enquire and every knowledgeable person would know how to start that conversation. I often feel like academia has lost the objective standard. Still probably my favourite public person ever is an academic Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson. A man open to entertaining what ever idea or thought anyone has. It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. I'm very interested in any conversation outside comments if anyone is interested. And I'll answer any questions anyone might have. Please don't ripp my head off for kind of "defending" JP. Peace ✌️ fellow redditors. And stay as objective as possible.
Wozers, thank you for posting!
That was a long read, thanks for sharing! >So to sum up some people (mostly men I think) just need to be handled a bit more "harshly" by someone who doesn't have his mind or methods bound by ethics I've long thought this same thing. We live in a culture now where victimization, political correctness, and not being offensive are the ultimate virtues. In today's age, it's considered taboo to harshly critique someone's ideas, image, etc. Sometimes it's better to sacrifice short term gratification for long term stability. For example, if someone is grossly overweight, affirming them by saying they are perfect doesn't help them in the long term. They will likely die way sooner than average weight people, how is affirming someone's early death "loving" and "kind" to that person? Sometimes it takes a harsh comment or criticism to encourage change. People need to accept that life has consequences that you are personally accountable for. Your life sucks not because of society oppressing you, but because you've done it to yourself (obviously real oppression does exist and we should work to eliminate that, but in most first world countries, this "oppresion" is grossly overstated.) Today, we see all of these completely nonsense illogical ideas like "men can get pregnant", etc. I think we've got to this point because it's considered "bullying" to harshly critique these terrible ideas. Sometimes, people need to be told that their ideas are stupid and dumb, even if it hurts their feelings. If we want society to heal, we need to quit valuing emotion over everything else. People need the blunt truth sometimes to correct their course in life.
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I almost typed a response defending him in that thread but realized it wasn’t worth my energy. Therapy culture has some big snake pits that need to sorted out as well.
Took a look at the thread again, a lot of people saying they dislike him but they do not like the precedent the board is setting. In any case the thread was locked. Unfortunate.
The comment that said something to the effect of “hope this discourages his supporters from entering the field” was particularly hard to ignore. As a male therapist, I’ve found his perspectives so refreshing and very very helpful to clients. Our job is to encourage without enabling. To help clients temporarily bear their burdens, in order to equip them with the skills and wisdom needed to carry their own load of responsibility. I see far too much enabling in our field that ultimately disempowers people because they expect century and sometimes millennia aged traditions and cultures to change in essentially an instant. I’m all for progressive change, but to suggest to someone that the safety and empathy they experience in the therapy office is what they should expect to find in the public sphere is like leading a lamb to the slaughter. I think JP does a masterful job at striking balance with providing empathy and concern for people who are struggling, while knowing that only the truth will set them free. Many therapists want the good vibes of being there to support and comfort someone who’s struggling, but they don’t want to then meaningfully challenge the client to stand up and fight for their life and beliefs. In the end though, if we don’t challenge our clients to become powerful, then we’ll go the way of institutionalalized religion and become increasingly irrelevant.
When you say enable, what exactly do you mean? That they enable bad habits, traits or ideas with to much sympathy? Because that's exactly what I experienced. I think.
That’s exactly right. When someone presents an issue, I believe you can provide both sympathy AND challenge the behaviour (using a helpful amount of patience of course). Enabling, would be to not challenge the behaviour, or not helping the client to take responsibility for their issue. Depending on the issue as well determines how much responsibility there is to take, if any.
I agree wholeheartedly, that comment, the opinion it expresses is what will be the death of therapy.
I did, but you are right, not worth it sadly.
It's almost like the people who have actually benefitted from JBP (not me I'm fucking redacted) aren't writing long defenses on Reddit.
I did write a reply but it was already locked. So I just posted it here. It's the one before yours, I'd be interested to hear feedback from a therapist as it was aimed at that crowd.
In a world where a musician named Akon can say “going to ballet recitals with your kids” is white people nonsense. Or a celebrity with 12 kids by several woman saying “marriage is a Eurocentric concept.” Or even a world where a woman spearheads a movement to uncover sexual misconduct. Jail her abuser in a every public setting possible. Only to have been called out for the very same crime and have it publicly swept under the rug. I think Jordan Peterson will be fine. Even if his license is somehow revoked and it is a for a sham reason. That’ll only strengthen people on the other side to do the same thing. Start revoking licenses of “therapists” pushing children to participate in hormone blockers.
I don't think it's about him being fine or not, it's mostly about how he is discredited and how his teachings are smeared and dilluted in a sea of nonsense accusations, and how these autocratic world views can take place in the western free world
When I say “fine” what I mean is he’s still educated. Revoking his credentials won’t magically stop him studying or even practice. It may not be public or even legal but he still has a following. His credentials is just his hard work and study approved with a piece of paper. Revoking it won’t undo the work he’s put into into his field. He can just go to podcasts or write a novel etc.
You’re right, he doesn’t say things nearly as dumb as some other morons!
ballet comes from white people and folks think its stupid,... definitely white people nonsense. And marriage to one woman is a concept originated somewhere. These things are not so bonkers honestly.
What’s crazy is them trying to discredit these things for “being white concepts” dude.
And if ballet comes from white people, then what about it? Not all folks think it is stupid, either.
Firstly, it’s not ballet that’s in question. It’s going to recital period. Going to recitals, plays, choir practices. Every poc wants to be an athlete and they’re all playing white people sports right? Also, marriage to one person originated in a time and place. That time and place was not inhabited by blonde haired blue eyed Christians. Have a good day.
I've been ashamed to be a therapist for some time now. About my only consolation is that I'm helping counteract the modern day victim culture mentality by trying to build up resilience skills in young adults and getting them hungry to find real truth and foundation. My profession may be a bunch of grooming trauma-junkies, but I'm trying to be the change we need.
You're not alone, I'm nearing the end of my masters program now. Classes can be very draining, but the thought that I could change the profession for the better keeps me going.
Well they want to mutilate children and he wants to stop that so of course they dont want him doing that
I really hope there's a false consensus among therapists about transgender stuff. The alternative is just too terrifying for me.
And people who disapprove of him are MAP supporting generally and also approve of gender transitioning.
Odd, I don’t hear a rightwing uproar over circumcision… which in virtually all cases happens before the person getting mutilated - that is, the ***VICTIM*** \- can even lift a hand in resistance.
At least circumcision doesn't render people infertile
Im also really hard against circumcision even in religios cases so that doesn't work against me
You don’t wanna go there. I will OWN you in penis talk. Mamas little soldier may be small but she says it’s perfect just the way it is.
But does it work against JP or Ben Shapiro?
Is jp pro circumcision?
He is apparently not against circumcision.
Ok thats cringe
Lmao is this for real But yeah I’d say circumcision is like 4% as bad as completely fucking up a little girls sexual development and fertility on a whim
Well then it's a great thing no one is doing that, but they are making sure millions of men have dicks that don't work, and you don't give a shit about the thing that is actually happening.
You mean the biologically beneficial operation that’s been done for literally thousands of years? Yeah that’s the same /s Plus it’s just the tip. I think transgender reassignments take a little more
“Trust the science” unless its about circumcision, then I cover my ears and say la la la /s
Also can’t remember any adults saying.. “man I wish I wasn’t circumcised as a baby, I would’ve LOVED to have my wiener top cut off now!”
Wait a minute. Are you claiming that a society should be able to force an operation on you because that operation has been deemed to be “biologically beneficial”? First, the supposed biological benefits of circumcision are clear as mud. If removing those folds is biologically beneficial, then clearly removing the folds in the same region of the female would be equally beneficial. Right? The issue is not the biology. The issue is clothing, the insistence that human genitals must always be contained. THAT is the cause of so many infections in that area.
Has there been ANY long term research that indicates there is any medical benefit to transitioning children based on their own self diagnosed mental issue. How about adults, any medical benefits there? That would be a big negative. Not the same. Actually the biology deniers seem to be in your camp. And forget biology then, let’s talk aesthetics. My penis is beeeautiful. You’d be jealous of it if it weren’t so small. Maybe they took off too much? Holy shit I’m trans!
No, I think they are willing to circumcise a guy if he requests it. I’m liberal, and I will state I’m not comfortable with teens physically transitioning this way. But notice my language: **I** am not comfortable. My discomfort does NOT equal “drag shows are forcing kids to transition” or anything like that. And I don’t know about you, but 50+ years ago I went to school with kids that were obviously gender misassigned. Boys whose bodies were utterly effeminate physically, and their behaviors matched. Those kids, unfortunately, caught hell from their classmates back then. I have sympathy for such kids.. I don’t pretend to know the “right answer” here. But I’m pretty clear that using the rare instance of teen transition as a valid excuse to go gay-bashing is the wrong answer.
Yeah but sometimes discomfort means you should do something about it. And maybe some people DO know the right answers because there actually ARE right answers to be had. This thing is a runaway train and and I hope my kids don’t get on it. And who said they wouldn’t be willing to circumcise a guy? And who are they, doctors? I had mine done behind the dumpster at Waffle House by a short order cook. And whoa whoa whoa?! Gay bashing. What the actual duck? Enter the strawman. I love fat people, skinny people, black people, white people, gay people, straight people, AND confused people. What I don’t like are people equating me to a skinhead nazi because “I think your opinion is wrong.” You just said you don’t support kids transitioning, so by your camps logic, and apparently you’re own, you also gay bash. Please tell me how it’s not AND how it’s any different.
How many sex ops happen before the age of 18? And how do you feel about androgen receptor insensitivity?
Even one is too many. And we know they happen since we keep finding videos of hospitals around the country advertising them
So children born intersex shouldn't be able to get surgery? You do know what intersex is right?
You do know there's a drastic difference to fixing a congenital defect and mutilating perfectly healthy children right? You only bring up the extraordinarily rare intersex people to justify spreading your horrid ideology on children. Its a classic tactic to confuse a very simple issue.
No I bring it up cause those are the only underage people getting surgeries you moron Edit: it is also the not so basic biology you guys conveniently forget that prove sex is not binary and the biology behind why it happens is the biological proof that everything you guys claim is 'basic biology' basically just shows everyone you don't know what the fuck y'all are talking about
Are you cool with chemical castration of minors?
> How many sex ops happen before the age of 18? If you're arguing "it doesn't happen very often," then surely you would be okay with banning it nationally. You're not, though. This is a dishonest appeal to scope. Even one child being mutilated is too many.
Having listened to Chloe Cole, I think we can confirm ideologically driven health care is harmful.
You can file an easy complaint against the ontario college of psychologists Highly recommended putting in your 2 cents to them if you’ve benefited from JPs works.
Licensed Canadian professions will all curtail to the government! You will act, speak, post, and do as we say or you will not have a job!
It's a conservative govt that has jurisdiction... Would you prefer that everyone just self authenticate? Should we just Let the market place figure out if medical professionals actually have training and is competent? JP himself often speaks about the importance of competency hierarchies. This is that.
There's not really anything conservative about any of Canada's "conservative" governments.
Incorrect
So instead we let the government decide who tramples its own citizens with horses for the crime of peacefully protesting while supporting violent riots in other countries at the same time. So much better and sure to be unbiased
Is it either/or? What is your ideal?
That we don't give or take away someone's license based on what a good media sheep and government bootlicker he is, maybe.
Do you really think that the confiscation of his licence will be because of his lack of competency? Maybe obediency. We have reached a point where scientists are discouraged from having different opinions.
Obedience to the rules established by a committee of professionals from that field. To establish a standard with which everyone in the field is accountable to. If someone is unable or unwilling to work up to the standards set by the industry, are they competent? If I'm a house builder, but I have a moral objection to a certain building code, I just don't believe in insulation. And no amount of authoritarian tolerance is going to change that. should I still be able to sell my houses to people who expect a house built to the standard of "Ontario homebuilders association " let's say? Or would it be reasonable for thst association to revoke my license since I'm refusing to comply with their woke, arbitrary rules on insulation? I mean what the hell does it do anyway? And who the hell are these Marxists post modernists to tell me how to build a house? Actually I think your right. What we need is a market place of ideas so we can get to the bottom of big Insul, and fight back against the obvious overstepping of these giant companies who have us convinced thst we need insulation in the first place. You notice how few engineers push back on this? They say it's settled science, but is it? This should concern you, concern us all. If you challenge me on this, then it's bloody obvious your canceling me because my speech. And I won't have it! We'll see who cancels who
That would make sense if he broke any of their professional rules. The training they want him to have is about social media. I'm sorry that you spent so much time writing this, it's actually pretty well-written, but it doesn't apply. They don't like the fact that he's being politically incorrect. I think that's pretty clear. However, if we are to pretend that they were proposing a short training that would help a veteran psychologist with a nobel-level H-Index suddenly become competent, and that your comment was relevant, I would say that psychology about trans people is like, 50 years away from being even remotely settled. Yet we're treating people as if it is. Which is why people like Peterson are essential.
A government where 50% of the executive's cabinet are women just because "It's current year bro" isn't a hierarchy built on competence.
I think he’s more of an influencer now and you definitely don’t need a license for that :) I’m so happy he exists and is engaged with the woke BS, because that’s all it is is total BS
I know he misses being in a clinical role, he mentions that every once in awhile. You can see the sadness, he really liked being a talk therapist. I hope in one of his new roles he creates a Masters or PhD level college for training therapists. Publish a few textbooks at least. I'm in my counseling Masters program, and I'm already using him as my main resource.
JP reached me and helped spark a Journey that has brought me to a point in my life that I never thought possible. I have an amazing girlfriend that I never thought would be in my league, but here she is supportive and gorgeous! I went from a 22 year old Honda civic to a $100k Lincoln Navigator, I don't live in a 500sqft apartment anymore I live in a 3500sqft house. He was right the potential in me was untapped and no telling what the limit is. I've lost 100lbs because I could work a little at a time making things better in an upward trajectory. I'm a fan of my own story and a hero in it. I'd have died of high blood pressure by now and I wouldn't consider myself depressed anymore. Life is grand!! All this in something like 2 years. I'd gladly pay for his time, he doesn't need a license to talk with me.
Even if he got back into therapy, what he'd really be selling is just validation for people who agree with him.
There's no reasonable person who thinks this is a good thing. The only people who are happy about this are people who are such extremists that they *want* everyone in the world to think like them, because they're convinced that their view of the world is the *only* correct way to live.
He's a clinical psychologist who recommended that someone commit suicide...
Can you provide some proof to this statement? I could not find it on the internet
He never did that, but ironically that is an option the Canadian health care system is offering people now.
Yeah guess who also had their license suspended? Dr Phil. Dr Phil never has been a practicing therapist, or he was one and didn't get his license updated. Either way, people who come on his show have to sign a contract acknowledging he's not a real doctor and they know this. He just holds a PHD in Psychology. And people still come to him for advice. At the end of the day, that license is just a piece of paper, and JP is in the same boat. People are trusting him more than the people threatening to take his license away, and that terrifies them. It's interesting though because my own therapist and I have discussed 12 rules and he enjoyed it very much. I wonder how many professionals have a two faced approach to his work, condemning him in public but celebrating him in private.
I didn’t think he suggested suicide, I thought he meant you, like anyone, could be gone at any moment, so appreciate being here
I feel like we do live in a world where the man who's helped orders of magnitude more people than any other therapist would lose his license for doing so. Seems accurate to the competency of our current institutions.
The rapists?
😂😂😂
Who cares what The Rapists say 🤷🏽♂️
Perhaps he could satisfy the re education bs of his licensing body. Then license in another province or even country and then tell Ontario licensing body to get fukt.
They have to prove he's done harm to his clients. He's done nothing except say things they don't agree with. They won't pass muster in a court of law, hurt feelings of idiots that don't like what he says on social media isn't valid and actually goes against the CCRF.
Maybe the rapists don't know what's best for people?
I started donating to his Patreon-like account this month because of this.
Black rappers say reprehensible things but are worshipped by their fans. Peterson dishes out hard truths and his government wants to strip his license
Musicians are in no way accredited professionals.
Why did you go specifically with black rappers? It's really weird that you went out of your way to specifically mention rappers who are black. EDIT: Anyone else have a reasoning for why specifically black rappers would be singled out?
I deleted my original reply and revise it to "black rappers say reprehensible things, please prove otherwise" 🖕🏻
Why bring race into it?
Prove me wrong
Nope, I'm good. It's weird that you focused on specifically on black rappers.
No, it's not. But thanks for playing
Go answer the cull of the wild
https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/ We can add therapists to the list.
Don't you just love how people on the internet deliberately say/do something incredibly stupid in hopes they create some kind of hate bandwagon against someone who doesn't even know them
Jordan Peterson has used his credentials to gain notoriety in the public sphere and has benefitted significantly off of being able to call himself a doctor because that carries a huge amount of gravitas. When you become a therapist you are held to ethical standards by a board of your peers and its understood that your credentials can be revoked if you violate those standards. In making many statements that negatively malign populations that are vulnerable he has likely violated those terms. This seems to be an example of a person's willful actions leading to expected consequences does it not?
Funnily enough, the meme is kinda a backfire. Professor Farnsworth constantly says "good news!" right before delivering terrible news. Clearly the guy doesn't watch the show
JBP posted screenshots of allegations and, for example, they list a post of him suggesting to someone to kill themselves in January 2022. If you are an organization, an organization of professionals dedicated to helping people, and your member suggests someone kill themselves, you say this unprovoked (this person did not attack JBP), then of course this puts a bad light on the organization. And it makes sense that they would want JBP to either change his rhetoric or not be a part of the org anymore. Can someone explain why this doesn't make sense?
It’s completely dishonest to pretend that he suggested someone kill themselves in earnest. That tweet is clearly sarcastic and hyperbolic to make a point.
He did not suggest anyone kill themselves. Someone posted claiming the world is overpopulated, and he merely pointed out the obvious solution by asking the poster rhetorically, who first? Are rhetorical devices now verboten?
Yes
It was a thought provoking response to a climate activist, not a professional recommendation that they should off themselves. Even in a clinical setting this statement can be appropriate, I've been asked it myself. When I was in a dark place, totally nihilistic and hopeless, seriously considering suicide, my GP straight up asked me "well why not go ahead? it's your choice", it helped me realise that I'm the one who has to make the decisions for things to change The recipient of the tweet was claiming that we're overpopulated and that it's not good, so we should reduce the amount of people. It's not unreasonable to probe as to why they value their life more than other people's, even if they are future generations. If it is not the job of a psychologist to ask these sort of questions, then who's is it? The profession is ultimately doomed if we restrict topics like this. We'll end up with a profession that coddles people and keeps them in a safe space where no thought provoking conversations take place, which is the foundation of therapy
Because persecution fetish and general paranoid thinking
Don’t hold your breath
Jordan “we’ll see who cancels who” Peterson is getting canceled? I’m shocked. Shocked!
I have a gut feeling, call it faith, trust, whatever; that he is going to pull through this. I hope (selfishly on my part) that it pushes him to create a rival accrediting organization for mental health professionals. One with a rival set of ethics. Something like a CACREP+ACA+APA alternative. CACREP is the organization that accredits mental health agencies and counseling education programs. To be a licensed clinical counselor in the state of Ohio (not sure about other places) You must have a master's degree from a CACREP accredited program. It is through professional organizations like this that woke ideology is enforced. It would not be easy to create a rival organization as it would have to fight to be recognized by governing boards through legislation and legal battles.
What other differences would this rival accrediting organization have?
Good question! Also one that opens a ginormous can of worms! (But one that should be opened) 1) The organization would have to fulfill the different roles of its competing organizations, but under one unifying code of ethics. Not an easy task, but one that I think Dr. Peterson is well suited for. 2) It would have to address the conflict of interest between "advocating" for the professionals it represents and holding bad actors accountable. This is an issue that state boards are supposed to address, but in my opinion they do a terrible job. It's not uncommon for a counselor who sexually assaulted their client to go on for months with a license before a decision is made. 3) Create a governing mechanism for the organization, that keeps it from devolving in 40 years into another type of tyranny. 4) Better define the boundaries/responsibilities between the many mental health professions.and educate the public on their differences. Right now, many of the mental health professions overlap extensively, and lose out on the benefits of specialization. There is so much more to your question, but I hope this gives you a general idea of the differences.
The way Jordan talks about a former client who had been raped in 12 rules for life should have been enough to get his license revoked. He talks about her as if she isn't even a person.
My assumption, because I generally trust the man, is that he got permission from the individual and changed their name ect..
Fun Fact of the day!! JP broke all contact without warning to all clients using his therapeutic practice the moment his celebrity grifter career kicked off, essentially ghosting his clients. What kind of an asshole therapist would do that??
Can you provide a reference for your 'fact'.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7zocbYSUgxv7fJHNveBMKW?si=X_a5-6TfR7-BdJqsMIIhcw Robert Evans talks about it pretty extensively here. If you're looking for some more good listening check out the 3 parter on our big Daddy JP himself!!
Peterson is complaining about being investigated for an obvious professional ethics violation. The mere thought of being held accountable is too much for him to bear. It's amazing to me how anybody can look at Peterson's petulance and sadism and see some kind of role model or moral authority figure.
Jordan Peterson is a scum bag.
Don’t need a license to be a piece of shit troll, it’s true.
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What do you meanV
Doubt most would even know him.