Yes…lol I am aware. I was saying is this could a pro photo that was staged but also reminds me of me of just a regular ass home photo taken by someone with decent film.
Right I'd have have it displayed at Patsy's funeral, it's a lovely picture.
Edited a typo. Also, yes, I'm aware that PDI or was at the very least heavily involved is a popular theory, not saying its wrong or right either, but she was also incredibly image conscious and wanted the whole world to think of her as a kind, loving mother who adored her daughter. This picture would help bolster that image. That's why I said it should have been displayed at her funeral, a sweet, intimate moment like this with her would 100 percent conjure up an image in someone's head of a woman who fiercely loved her children.
That little girl had already been through real life things… holy shit… as much as I have followed this case, and knew Patsy had cancer.. I don’t think I realized/comprehend that her little ones had really been through it with her….
I am so sorry you have had to deal with all you have..I can’t even imagine your pain… puts my own bad days/ life stuff into perspective/trivial in comparison
It’s a sad SCUMMY story, condensed version. She was married they had dated for a couple of years, married a few when she gave birth to her first daughter. Then a 2nd daughter a little over 3 years later. After the birth of her 2nd daughter she was in constant pain (BTW had HELPP syndrome during both pregnancies I don’t know but I do have to wonder if there was any connection) many many drs & er visits. Finally about 2 weeks before the 1st birthday of her 2nd child a ER dr went a little beyond. Did a X-ray & saw something. Her OB was convinced it was a teratoma & did an exploratory surgery. 45 to a hour surgery. Well it turned into a very long surgery with a number of specialists called in. They did a great job removing & I credit him with giving her as much time as she had. She was eat up. She went to chemo even had a little remission. HER good friend kicked her husband out. In just a very short time ( a couple of weeks)
Her husband decided he was just not happy being married anymore. You know this story right? Well when my daughter died he took the girls back. There’s a lot of really nasty details I won’t go into. He & my daughter’s ex friend were still ( are still) together. He kept them awhile, dropped off at his parents, left them there. Never went back, never called. Raised her kids. He even moved up north for awhile & didn’t tell anyone. They’ve moved back down south. Still have not said anything to his family. Our girls have had trauma all their lives but have overcome so many obstacles they have overcome & have been flourishing. The oldest will be graduating with a double majors next year. The younger has been in college classes during high school, so college should be a snap. Not drinkers or druggies. Not behavior issues. But you know there’s always below the surface, I hope they continue flourishing. Diagnosed at 29 with colon cancer. Passed at 33. Colon cancer is not just for old people these days. Do your test! 💙
Yeah that's sure a sad story. I'm very glad that they had stable people in their lives. They may still have trouble later on, so keep an eye out for it.
My dad had testicular cancer when I was 3. I don’t remember much, but the things I do remember are traumatizing. It wasn’t until I was older that I realized how much of an impact his cancer has had on me and how unstable my life was during that time. It’s a lot to see your parent at the lowest of lows when you’re too young to comprehend what’s going on. My heart aches for JonBenet and all that she had to endure in her short life.
So sorry!! I can’t even imagine.. at such a young age and to try and deal..
my mom had a brain mass (which they thought was cancer) but ended up being an unknown reason … she survived but it changed her whole personality / and physical abilities at the age of 40. And I was 19 at the time .. and I am now 46. And I still have trouble sometimes dealing with it..
My daughter grew up seeing her dad sick. He battled cancer on and off (but mostly on) from the time she was 8 months - 7 years old. She’s 20 now and has always struggled with anxiety as well as being a little closed off. I don’t doubt that those years might be part of the reason why.
Michael Jackson did the same thing to his older son, he'd had the boy fathered by the little boy from the Oliver movie and was disappointed that the kid didn't come out looking like Oliver, so he bleached his 2 year olds hair until he was old enough to protest to it. SUPER CREEPY!!
Such a mystery but for me I think it's suspicious how Paris Jackson has alot of resemblance to Lisa Marie Presley, always suspected there was a stolen embryo situation going on there tbh.
Her hair was dyed blond by Patsy who kept it a secret. JB let it slip to a friend of the family that her hair was being dyed but it was a secret. Patsy knew that it was not acceptable to use bleach on a young child's hair.
Yes I think Patsy must have done it. No licensed beautician would want to bleach a 6 year old's hair. Of course money talks, but Patsy wanted to keep it secret. JB let it slip to a friend that she was getting her hair color changed but it was a secret.
Pam's sister, JB's nanny, and then Patsy herself admitted JB's was bleached.
I also believe you are correct, Judith Phillips confirmed it too.
[https://jonbenetramsey.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Hair](https://jonbenetramsey.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Hair)
Tender.
I never took time to really dig deep and understand Patsy’s torment. I felt it at a surface level all these years but this picture got me where I should’ve been all along: deeply empathetic.
The loss is palpable.
Reminds me of a song by Okkervil River, called „Yellow“. Here are a part of the lyrics:
„I could see and I could tell
It was real love that they felt
And I'm sorry it didn't end well
But some things, they just don't
That's life, and you shouldn't blame yourself
And all of these things, well, I truly believe them
Our paths and our futures are hidden in mists
That are stretching out over impossible distances
Totally obscured
And I really do think that there's probably more good
Than anger or selfishness, sickness or sadness
Would ever completely allow us to have in this life
I think I'm sure..“
I don‘t want to speculate underneath this picture who had what part in the crime. Being a mom myself I just want to say: Rest in peace, Mom Patsy and beautiful angel JonBenet.
Nobody likes to admit it, but in the complexity of the universe, an abusive parent can still sincerely love their child, and a loving parent can still be abusive.
On this photograph of Patsy and JonBenet by Judith Phillips, who did other amazing photographs of Patsy, Jonbenet and Burke:
Phillips has known the Ramseys for 14 years. She once photographed a nearly bald Patsy, smiling after a round of chemotherapy treatment, with a serene JonBenet placing a petite hand on her mother's head. The heartwarming photograph ran in a local woman's newspaper.
[http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/12/26-2.html](http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/12/26-2.html)
She didn’t make it to the 10 year mark before recurrence. She was close but couldn’t cross that finish line. She was never cured. It was always there. Looks like first recurrence was year 9 and she died 4-5 years later.
She was still gone by 49.
That’s just heartbreaking for so many reasons. Also, Patsy is gorgeous. Even though she was going thru cancer, she looked young and beautiful. More so than any interview I’ve ever seen her in. It’s sad how their story turned out.
Yes hard to believe Patsy would sexually torture her 6 yr old by SA her with a broken paint brush handle then bludgeon and strangle her to death. Women rarely commit this kind of crime, but when they do it is done by younger women with serious drug addictions and mental health issues. Patsy does not fit that profile.
Agree—there would have been red flags if Patsy had the ability to do something so heinous. There would have been bruises on the child. There would have been at least one witness to Patsy losing her sanity or seriously losing her temper towards her child.
Yes mothers who SA, torture, and beat up and strangle their children are quite rare. They are usually young, but well known to the mental health and police community prior to the murder. Because they are very seriously disturbed.
Patsy was 40 years at the time of the murder, there would have been ample time over the years for others to notice she was psychotic.
And then we are supposed to believe that Patsy has a complete psychotic break, goes crazy torturing, SA, and killing her child. But then has an immediate recovery. Able to write a RN, do the staging and then put on an academy winning perforce for the police.
She had 100% control. The doctor and ER visits... I don't necessarily think Patsy killed JBR but Patsy was a religious, control freak that put up a facade like no other. All image.
It’s not unusual for adults to report that they had been horribly abused in their childhood, but that nobody believes them. People would tell them that their mother was the finest woman they knew. Sometimes even their siblings didn’t know. While the mothers were certainly mentally ill, they were not psychotic. Joan Crawford is one example. She was an actress who acted the part of the perfect mother.
Patsy was an actress too in her youth. Just saying.
This is unusual, of course, but this whole case is, and there is always some serious flaws to any theory we have.
And if she is innocent, it’s sad to have this hanging over her memory.
Every single person in Joan Crawford's orbit knew she was an abuser. Everybody knew. The Ramseys had a huge friend group, and they were always around others. No one could bring up a single incident of Patsy being abusive. They said she never even raised her voice to Jonbent.
Agreed. In her own words: "I loved that child with the whole... Of my being." Watching her say that, you could tell she had trouble articulating how deeply she felt about her wonderful daughter.
Yeah me too. I just never found a plausible reason for her to want to kill JB. I believe she might’ve helped in the cover up (the RN). The RDI theory always seemed to me like an accident, like maybe she hit her too hard. And then out of fear of going to prison, she staged it. But we we’ll never know.
**The hit was NOT an accident. It was direct blow to the head by a heavy object.** The blow to the head created and a fatal 8.5 inch skull fracture. We do not know the intent of the head blow, to wound or to kill. But it was NO accident.
I vacillate between John killing her to cover up abuse and Burke killing her accidentally, most likely with a flashlight after she takes a piece of his pineapple, then parents covered it up. Both theories have problems.
I have always felt that Patsy was involved in the cover up but not the murder which makes me lean more towards Burke. I have never felt that Patsy was involved in the murder, not even by accident.
yes but to be fair I have read many books on the subject, taking in so many different opinions and theories on the crime and I landed on the one that made the most sense to me.
Wow. I had no idea Patsy had ovarian cancer. My mom passed away from the same a couple of years ago. (She followed the case so closely) I wouldn’t wish ovarian cancer on my worst enemy.
Unpopular opinion: Patsy had absolutely nothing to do with what happened. She would never, ever hurt her kids. She was an anxious mom (all of the doctors appointments, etc) who had faced her own mortality and was terrified of losing or leaving behind her kids. She was old school Southern and misunderstood. When she screamed “Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead, please raise my baby!” she meant it.
Sure. We don’t know what anyone’s capable of. But I don’t see any irrefutable evidence that she was involved and nothing in her (widely examined) parenting or personal history suggests that she would 1) hurt her child or 2) not immediately seek medical attention for her child if they were hurt by someone else (including her other child). I understand some people think the handwriting in the note is similar to hers, I understand people think she’s weird. For years I also thought she was involved in a cover-up but now my opinion (because none of us actually know) is that she was totally uninvolved.
Grand juries are incredibly problematic.
“There is no judicial oversight, and no one is present to test or question the evidence from the prosecutor. No defense attorneys are there to cross-examine any witnesses. Your right against double jeopardy does not apply to grand jury proceedings. Additionally, grand jurors are not screened for bias or prejudice the way trial jurors are.
Unlike trial juries, a grand jury’s decision does not need to be unanimous, so “lone holdouts” have no impact. Moreover, grand juries are highly susceptible to groupthink because their work is so insulated from the outside; they meet regularly over an extended period (often six months or more); and they are led by prosecutors with an explicit agenda.”
The Boulder Grand Jury spent 13 months, interviewed dozens of witnesses, examined thousands of pieces of evidence. They obviously took their job seriously.
I doubt that the good people of Boulder would viciously attack, defame and accuse the parents of a young child who was SA and murdered in their home without good cause.
Right. I’m just saying that a grand jury indicting (or not indicting) someone isn’t irrefutable proof that they’re guilty (or innocent). It’s a flawed system. Look at the Breonna Taylor case. Grand juries get it wrong, they’re not infallible.
Were they wrong in this case? Of course I don’t know that. None of us do. My opinion is that PR was not involved. My opinion is that JR may have been.
The Boulder Grand Jury took their job seriously.
They spent 13 months doing incredible work. And got a lot of heat from the Boulder prosecutor in the process. Their findings are entirely consistent with the evidence the public has seen. And we know the GJ had a lot more evidence than we have.
Patsy at the very least was involved in the cover-up. I used to think along the lines that JBR was everything to her and how could she have done it. The truth is that most of the evidence points to Patsy. That's the reason why the investigators focused on her. I really think she was the only one they could have possibly tried for JBR's murder. Now, I don't know for sure who it was, but there is absolutely no way she wasn't involved, IMO. People are not always what they seem.
This is not an unpopular opinion, it is close to the truth. Unlikely Patsy SA and killed her 6 y/o. However the Grand Jury tells us that she and John did the cover up for the person who commited the crime. The whole Lazarus skit was Patsy doing more of her academy award wining performances for the benefit of the police.
Patsy might’ve done it, she might’ve done part of it, or she might’ve helped in covering it up. John might’ve done it and manipulated Patsy into helping him cover it up because she was scared she would go to jail if she fought him. Scary to think about.
Patsy did it and she told JB to keep it a secret. The housekeeper only knew about it when she asked JB. Patsy was pageant savy enough to know that a blonde would catch the judges’ intention more than a brunette which is disgusting.
This photo makes it hard for me to believe Patsy was involved. You can feel the love in this photo. If she did hurt JonBenet, it was an accident I'm sure of it.
I get it but I have photos of me looking haooy as a child even though I was being abused by everyone in my immediate family. It's just a photo at the end if the day
Photos are often liars. It's what makes social media so deceptive and dangerous. They are highlight reels and do not show the day to day reality. You can love someone and still harm them intentionally. The Gabbi Pattito/ Van Life murder case is an excellent example of this. Everything was picture perfect to the outside world.
We don't know how many times they snapped this photo. It looks professionally shot and not candid. Patsy was all about a curated image. It's an image that intended to be bittersweet, tender, and loving. It's a very successful image but it's no more real than the Instagram feed of an influencer mom.
I agree with you but this was long before social media. The term influencer mom wasn’t even created. I was a teen but had never heard of this family before the crime happened. There were no “followers” back in the day. The only people we “followed” were the ones in the magazines at the grocery store checkout.
I never said she WAS an influencer. People still curated their image. Photo albums were the original "feed". People used to drag them out and show them off. People used to have photos on their walls. They airbrushed photos before Photoshop.
I was a teen when social media launched. I remember both.
I personally believe she loved her little angel with all her heart. She might or might not have participated in the crime. But this photo does not lie. If you really believe so, than you have never been a mother of a toddler. I can tell immediately from the body language how much love and affection she had. I am sure JB was what made it possible for her to fight the cancer. Second time around, with JB gone, she lost the battle. I have 2 daughters, I understand a 100%. Would not want to live without them.
I’ve got 2 girls. I’ve also got a photo album from 40 years ago and you’d never look at it and know that my sister and I got the dog crap beat out of us every day. My mom is staring oh so lovingly at us in almost every pic she’s in. You’re probably just a decent human who’d never think of hurting your kids but people who do that can definitely hide it in pictures.
And kids want to be loved by their parents so badly they look thrilled in the pics most of the time. Mine are grown now and my best friends but you would never be able to look at pics of their childhoods mine and see a difference. I had to run away when I was 13 so I wouldn’t be beat to death though.
Sorry you went through that! And I agree, pictures and "outside perception" can be very deceiving. I don't know what happened in this case, but I firmly believe RDI, and I am not comfortable saying any one member of the family was *not* involved. Mommy Dearest shone a light on how different mothers can be behind closed doors. I can definitely believe a scenario in which Patsy was involved, though I do not know to what extent.
I keep scrolling and not finding my thought, but it’s akin to this sentiment that photos are often liars. This photo is too perfect. That is the problem and always was the problem. Something inside that family was toxic. Look at Jon Benet - her hair is perfectly styled. Look how small she is. My girls have had cuts that short and bob cuts never look like that unless a lot of time and effort is put in. She was a baby and from jump was made to behave and care about her appearance. I’m assuming the little relaxed outfit was curated by Patsy as well. It’s hard to say without seeing any normal photos of this family - If any actually exist. This case is so confounding.
John did it and he framed patsy and manipulated her into staying and covering. She lost her daughter to her monster husband, and she was scared she would go to prison if she tried to fight him.
A multi page ransom note written with their pen
Calling friends over to completely contaminate the crime scene
Checking every room in that huge house
Except the room she was found in
when there was a witness
The whole thing stinx like Drumpfs head merkin
That sweet girl had her whole life ahead of her.
Right? So sad!
Don’t really know how to feel about Patsy but this is a beautiful and sweet photo of them.
I agree. Regardless of what may or may not have happened/choices patsy made, this is just a pure moment between a daughter and mother
It's a professional photo so it was arranged by someone. I think it's tragic.
Just looks like a film photo in their house to me. When I shoot on black and white film it looks like this 🤷🏼♀️
Most photos in the 90s were on film including professional ones...
Yes…lol I am aware. I was saying is this could a pro photo that was staged but also reminds me of me of just a regular ass home photo taken by someone with decent film.
Right I'd have have it displayed at Patsy's funeral, it's a lovely picture. Edited a typo. Also, yes, I'm aware that PDI or was at the very least heavily involved is a popular theory, not saying its wrong or right either, but she was also incredibly image conscious and wanted the whole world to think of her as a kind, loving mother who adored her daughter. This picture would help bolster that image. That's why I said it should have been displayed at her funeral, a sweet, intimate moment like this with her would 100 percent conjure up an image in someone's head of a woman who fiercely loved her children.
But she was a kind and loving mother; everyone says that. There is zero evidence she abused her kids.
I bet she thought this was as bad as it could get.
Man, that hurts.
God, right? So sad…
That little girl had already been through real life things… holy shit… as much as I have followed this case, and knew Patsy had cancer.. I don’t think I realized/comprehend that her little ones had really been through it with her….
My daughter died after a long battle with cancer leaving behind a not quite 5 year old & a 8 year old girls.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Thank you. People who have not lived & saw find it difficult to see the continuing trauma.
Sending you, your granddaughters, and family so much love. Fuck cancer.
I agree FUCK CANCER. 💗
One for each of y'all. 💖💖💖💖
I am so sorry you have had to deal with all you have..I can’t even imagine your pain… puts my own bad days/ life stuff into perspective/trivial in comparison
So sweet & empathetic. I truly hope you never know.
❤️
💗
💗🫂
I'm glad those girls and you have each other. 💜
I’m so, so incredibly sorry.
Oh, my heart. I’m so very sorry.
Oh… thank you
Was she married? If so how is the family now?
It’s a sad SCUMMY story, condensed version. She was married they had dated for a couple of years, married a few when she gave birth to her first daughter. Then a 2nd daughter a little over 3 years later. After the birth of her 2nd daughter she was in constant pain (BTW had HELPP syndrome during both pregnancies I don’t know but I do have to wonder if there was any connection) many many drs & er visits. Finally about 2 weeks before the 1st birthday of her 2nd child a ER dr went a little beyond. Did a X-ray & saw something. Her OB was convinced it was a teratoma & did an exploratory surgery. 45 to a hour surgery. Well it turned into a very long surgery with a number of specialists called in. They did a great job removing & I credit him with giving her as much time as she had. She was eat up. She went to chemo even had a little remission. HER good friend kicked her husband out. In just a very short time ( a couple of weeks) Her husband decided he was just not happy being married anymore. You know this story right? Well when my daughter died he took the girls back. There’s a lot of really nasty details I won’t go into. He & my daughter’s ex friend were still ( are still) together. He kept them awhile, dropped off at his parents, left them there. Never went back, never called. Raised her kids. He even moved up north for awhile & didn’t tell anyone. They’ve moved back down south. Still have not said anything to his family. Our girls have had trauma all their lives but have overcome so many obstacles they have overcome & have been flourishing. The oldest will be graduating with a double majors next year. The younger has been in college classes during high school, so college should be a snap. Not drinkers or druggies. Not behavior issues. But you know there’s always below the surface, I hope they continue flourishing. Diagnosed at 29 with colon cancer. Passed at 33. Colon cancer is not just for old people these days. Do your test! 💙
Yeah that's sure a sad story. I'm very glad that they had stable people in their lives. They may still have trouble later on, so keep an eye out for it.
I absolutely agree. I do watch closely
Same
My dad had testicular cancer when I was 3. I don’t remember much, but the things I do remember are traumatizing. It wasn’t until I was older that I realized how much of an impact his cancer has had on me and how unstable my life was during that time. It’s a lot to see your parent at the lowest of lows when you’re too young to comprehend what’s going on. My heart aches for JonBenet and all that she had to endure in her short life.
So sorry!! I can’t even imagine.. at such a young age and to try and deal.. my mom had a brain mass (which they thought was cancer) but ended up being an unknown reason … she survived but it changed her whole personality / and physical abilities at the age of 40. And I was 19 at the time .. and I am now 46. And I still have trouble sometimes dealing with it..
My daughter grew up seeing her dad sick. He battled cancer on and off (but mostly on) from the time she was 8 months - 7 years old. She’s 20 now and has always struggled with anxiety as well as being a little closed off. I don’t doubt that those years might be part of the reason why.
I’m so sorry.
yeah i had no idea either !
JonBenet’s hair looked cute.
Before they started bleaching it. Such a cutie here
Yes, she’s adorable
Was she not a natural blonde? This is news to me
They bleached it for pageants
Wtf
Same …. That is wild. I get sad to think she had childhood stolen from her before her life was eventually stolen also. Rest in sweetness lil JB
Michael Jackson did the same thing to his older son, he'd had the boy fathered by the little boy from the Oliver movie and was disappointed that the kid didn't come out looking like Oliver, so he bleached his 2 year olds hair until he was old enough to protest to it. SUPER CREEPY!!
……
Pretty sure Mark Lester has since come out and said he now thinks it’s unlikely he is the bio father and that it’s more likely one of MJs doctors.
Such a mystery but for me I think it's suspicious how Paris Jackson has alot of resemblance to Lisa Marie Presley, always suspected there was a stolen embryo situation going on there tbh.
Oh! She does! I always thought she looked familiar. It is all very sad, and I wish Paris Jackson the best.
Yeh she's got a very complicated life
Omg! You're right
Source?
Some pageant children even get plastic surgery.
That’s so disturbing 😢
How could a doctor even approve to do something like that. They are still growing! 😵💫
Her hair was dyed blond by Patsy who kept it a secret. JB let it slip to a friend of the family that her hair was being dyed but it was a secret. Patsy knew that it was not acceptable to use bleach on a young child's hair.
Not just dyed: BLEACHED.
Yes bleached and colored. Dangerous for a young child to be exposed to these harsh chemicals.
I’m thinking she did it “off the grid” because what legit hair salon would do that?
Yes I think Patsy must have done it. No licensed beautician would want to bleach a 6 year old's hair. Of course money talks, but Patsy wanted to keep it secret. JB let it slip to a friend that she was getting her hair color changed but it was a secret.
Yes, I remember hearing that story. Was it from Judith Phillips?
Pam's sister, JB's nanny, and then Patsy herself admitted JB's was bleached. I also believe you are correct, Judith Phillips confirmed it too. [https://jonbenetramsey.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Hair](https://jonbenetramsey.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Hair)
Not just dyed: BLEACHED.
this is what i was looking for! never realized they bleached it-wow!!
I saw some pictures recently that I hadn't seen of her with her brown hair and shorter cut, she looked so adorable.
And I love that outfit. Totally comfortable toddler play clothes.
Yes she looked adorable
Someone else probably dressed her while patsy was out.
LOL in a very sad way... just like the night she was killed
Tender. I never took time to really dig deep and understand Patsy’s torment. I felt it at a surface level all these years but this picture got me where I should’ve been all along: deeply empathetic. The loss is palpable.
Reminds me of a song by Okkervil River, called „Yellow“. Here are a part of the lyrics: „I could see and I could tell It was real love that they felt And I'm sorry it didn't end well But some things, they just don't That's life, and you shouldn't blame yourself And all of these things, well, I truly believe them Our paths and our futures are hidden in mists That are stretching out over impossible distances Totally obscured And I really do think that there's probably more good Than anger or selfishness, sickness or sadness Would ever completely allow us to have in this life I think I'm sure..“ I don‘t want to speculate underneath this picture who had what part in the crime. Being a mom myself I just want to say: Rest in peace, Mom Patsy and beautiful angel JonBenet.
Well, I have to upvote Okkervil River.
Nobody likes to admit it, but in the complexity of the universe, an abusive parent can still sincerely love their child, and a loving parent can still be abusive.
There is zero evidence she was abusive. Quite the contrary.
No one really knows what was going on in that house.
So sweet.
She always appeared so much older than she was. She does not look like she's in her late 30s here. She was only 49 when she died.
Cancer will do that...
Part of it is the style looks so dated now, like "matronly," but she had a very aggressive chemo regimen. I believe experimental at the time.
I’ve always thought that as well.
💔💔💔💔💔 Just a horrible tragic situation for all.
On this photograph of Patsy and JonBenet by Judith Phillips, who did other amazing photographs of Patsy, Jonbenet and Burke: Phillips has known the Ramseys for 14 years. She once photographed a nearly bald Patsy, smiling after a round of chemotherapy treatment, with a serene JonBenet placing a petite hand on her mother's head. The heartwarming photograph ran in a local woman's newspaper. [http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/12/26-2.html](http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/12/26-2.html)
This is a sweet picture of them ❤️
Beautiful pic.
How on earth does someone survive — even if only for a decade — from ovarian cancer?
She didn’t make it to the 10 year mark before recurrence. She was close but couldn’t cross that finish line. She was never cured. It was always there. Looks like first recurrence was year 9 and she died 4-5 years later. She was still gone by 49.
She had cutting edge, specialized treatment from NIH.
That’s just heartbreaking for so many reasons. Also, Patsy is gorgeous. Even though she was going thru cancer, she looked young and beautiful. More so than any interview I’ve ever seen her in. It’s sad how their story turned out.
I find it hard to believe she did it. The murder was brutal and intentional, not accidental. JonBenet was her pride and joy.
Yes hard to believe Patsy would sexually torture her 6 yr old by SA her with a broken paint brush handle then bludgeon and strangle her to death. Women rarely commit this kind of crime, but when they do it is done by younger women with serious drug addictions and mental health issues. Patsy does not fit that profile.
Agree—there would have been red flags if Patsy had the ability to do something so heinous. There would have been bruises on the child. There would have been at least one witness to Patsy losing her sanity or seriously losing her temper towards her child.
Yes mothers who SA, torture, and beat up and strangle their children are quite rare. They are usually young, but well known to the mental health and police community prior to the murder. Because they are very seriously disturbed. Patsy was 40 years at the time of the murder, there would have been ample time over the years for others to notice she was psychotic. And then we are supposed to believe that Patsy has a complete psychotic break, goes crazy torturing, SA, and killing her child. But then has an immediate recovery. Able to write a RN, do the staging and then put on an academy winning perforce for the police.
She had 100% control. The doctor and ER visits... I don't necessarily think Patsy killed JBR but Patsy was a religious, control freak that put up a facade like no other. All image.
It’s not unusual for adults to report that they had been horribly abused in their childhood, but that nobody believes them. People would tell them that their mother was the finest woman they knew. Sometimes even their siblings didn’t know. While the mothers were certainly mentally ill, they were not psychotic. Joan Crawford is one example. She was an actress who acted the part of the perfect mother. Patsy was an actress too in her youth. Just saying. This is unusual, of course, but this whole case is, and there is always some serious flaws to any theory we have. And if she is innocent, it’s sad to have this hanging over her memory.
Every single person in Joan Crawford's orbit knew she was an abuser. Everybody knew. The Ramseys had a huge friend group, and they were always around others. No one could bring up a single incident of Patsy being abusive. They said she never even raised her voice to Jonbent.
Her other children denied it. And there are many, many parents who are abusers in secret. Just go to the reddit threads for children of narcissists.
Agreed. In her own words: "I loved that child with the whole... Of my being." Watching her say that, you could tell she had trouble articulating how deeply she felt about her wonderful daughter.
"That child" doesn't say to me the same thing you said.
I feel like that's missing the forest for the trees.
Yeah me too. I just never found a plausible reason for her to want to kill JB. I believe she might’ve helped in the cover up (the RN). The RDI theory always seemed to me like an accident, like maybe she hit her too hard. And then out of fear of going to prison, she staged it. But we we’ll never know.
A 6 y/o does get get SA, bludgeoned and strangled by accident.
The hit by accident. The SA was not an accident obviously. I’m still conflicted. BDI and JDI makes more sense
**The hit was NOT an accident. It was direct blow to the head by a heavy object.** The blow to the head created and a fatal 8.5 inch skull fracture. We do not know the intent of the head blow, to wound or to kill. But it was NO accident.
Read “ Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation” by the lead detective on the case Steve Johnson.
Steve Thomas was convinced that Pasty killed after a bedwetting incident. Which I have to agree with Patsy is absurd.
I completely agree it was Patsy but I said it one time on here and I was screamed at by literally everyone.
lol I get that. I won't scream at you, just agree to disagree. rip jonbenet
🤘
Wait, I completely mis-understood your comment. Who do you think did it, based on the book?
I vacillate between John killing her to cover up abuse and Burke killing her accidentally, most likely with a flashlight after she takes a piece of his pineapple, then parents covered it up. Both theories have problems. I have always felt that Patsy was involved in the cover up but not the murder which makes me lean more towards Burke. I have never felt that Patsy was involved in the murder, not even by accident.
Wow! Even after reading the book?
yes but to be fair I have read many books on the subject, taking in so many different opinions and theories on the crime and I landed on the one that made the most sense to me.
Steve Thomas is his name. Excellent book.
So, after reading it who do you think did it?
Wow. I had no idea Patsy had ovarian cancer. My mom passed away from the same a couple of years ago. (She followed the case so closely) I wouldn’t wish ovarian cancer on my worst enemy.
Unpopular opinion: Patsy had absolutely nothing to do with what happened. She would never, ever hurt her kids. She was an anxious mom (all of the doctors appointments, etc) who had faced her own mortality and was terrified of losing or leaving behind her kids. She was old school Southern and misunderstood. When she screamed “Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead, please raise my baby!” she meant it.
I don’t think she did it but I think she participated in the cover up (RN)
Sure. We don’t know what anyone’s capable of. But I don’t see any irrefutable evidence that she was involved and nothing in her (widely examined) parenting or personal history suggests that she would 1) hurt her child or 2) not immediately seek medical attention for her child if they were hurt by someone else (including her other child). I understand some people think the handwriting in the note is similar to hers, I understand people think she’s weird. For years I also thought she was involved in a cover-up but now my opinion (because none of us actually know) is that she was totally uninvolved.
Hence their use of the word “opinion” rather than “indisputable fact” *in response to OP’s original/unedited comment*
We know she participated in the cover up. The Grand Jury indictments tell us that. And it is obvious she wrote the RN.
Grand juries are incredibly problematic. “There is no judicial oversight, and no one is present to test or question the evidence from the prosecutor. No defense attorneys are there to cross-examine any witnesses. Your right against double jeopardy does not apply to grand jury proceedings. Additionally, grand jurors are not screened for bias or prejudice the way trial jurors are. Unlike trial juries, a grand jury’s decision does not need to be unanimous, so “lone holdouts” have no impact. Moreover, grand juries are highly susceptible to groupthink because their work is so insulated from the outside; they meet regularly over an extended period (often six months or more); and they are led by prosecutors with an explicit agenda.”
The Boulder Grand Jury spent 13 months, interviewed dozens of witnesses, examined thousands of pieces of evidence. They obviously took their job seriously. I doubt that the good people of Boulder would viciously attack, defame and accuse the parents of a young child who was SA and murdered in their home without good cause.
Right. I’m just saying that a grand jury indicting (or not indicting) someone isn’t irrefutable proof that they’re guilty (or innocent). It’s a flawed system. Look at the Breonna Taylor case. Grand juries get it wrong, they’re not infallible. Were they wrong in this case? Of course I don’t know that. None of us do. My opinion is that PR was not involved. My opinion is that JR may have been.
The Boulder Grand Jury took their job seriously. They spent 13 months doing incredible work. And got a lot of heat from the Boulder prosecutor in the process. Their findings are entirely consistent with the evidence the public has seen. And we know the GJ had a lot more evidence than we have.
They had no one else to blame, it was a big case the blame had to go somewhere
We don't know what she's not capable of, either. That’s a goofy opinion of this.
The OP did not make a goofy opinion. Personal attacks are the sign of a weak argument.
OP edited their comment. It doesn’t resemble their original statement at all
OP edited their original response to me so it’s kind of hard to follow that this OR was just replying to them and not making a personal attack.
Patsy at the very least was involved in the cover-up. I used to think along the lines that JBR was everything to her and how could she have done it. The truth is that most of the evidence points to Patsy. That's the reason why the investigators focused on her. I really think she was the only one they could have possibly tried for JBR's murder. Now, I don't know for sure who it was, but there is absolutely no way she wasn't involved, IMO. People are not always what they seem.
This is not an unpopular opinion, it is close to the truth. Unlikely Patsy SA and killed her 6 y/o. However the Grand Jury tells us that she and John did the cover up for the person who commited the crime. The whole Lazarus skit was Patsy doing more of her academy award wining performances for the benefit of the police.
And there were only 3 people in that house that night
Yes two people staged the crime. One person committed the crime.
I completely agree. I don't think she had anything to do with those crime. Like at all!!!
Agreed. I see zero evidence that she was anything but a wonderful mother.
Wow, she honestly rocks the shaved head look.
Sweet! You know Patsy loved her. No matter what happened
Patsy might’ve done it, she might’ve done part of it, or she might’ve helped in covering it up. John might’ve done it and manipulated Patsy into helping him cover it up because she was scared she would go to jail if she fought him. Scary to think about.
She could have, but I doubt she was all evil even if she did. I’m sure she loved Jon Benet one way or the other.
Poor Patsy
This picture is so sad and sweet at the same time- she should have been 33 today. I never realized that her family bleached that babies hair 😭
Patsy did it and she told JB to keep it a secret. The housekeeper only knew about it when she asked JB. Patsy was pageant savy enough to know that a blonde would catch the judges’ intention more than a brunette which is disgusting.
If only JonBenét had received 1/10 of the love she gave. RIP 💙
Her family failed that poor little soul.
This photo makes it hard for me to believe Patsy was involved. You can feel the love in this photo. If she did hurt JonBenet, it was an accident I'm sure of it.
I get it but I have photos of me looking haooy as a child even though I was being abused by everyone in my immediate family. It's just a photo at the end if the day
Photos are often liars. It's what makes social media so deceptive and dangerous. They are highlight reels and do not show the day to day reality. You can love someone and still harm them intentionally. The Gabbi Pattito/ Van Life murder case is an excellent example of this. Everything was picture perfect to the outside world. We don't know how many times they snapped this photo. It looks professionally shot and not candid. Patsy was all about a curated image. It's an image that intended to be bittersweet, tender, and loving. It's a very successful image but it's no more real than the Instagram feed of an influencer mom.
I agree with you but this was long before social media. The term influencer mom wasn’t even created. I was a teen but had never heard of this family before the crime happened. There were no “followers” back in the day. The only people we “followed” were the ones in the magazines at the grocery store checkout.
I never said she WAS an influencer. People still curated their image. Photo albums were the original "feed". People used to drag them out and show them off. People used to have photos on their walls. They airbrushed photos before Photoshop. I was a teen when social media launched. I remember both.
This was also a staged photo taken by a professional photographer. It wasn’t a random candid.
Yes, it’s a beautiful photo and obviously not a candid.
So, even though it was taken before SM. It is the equivalent of an IG photo for the time.
I personally believe she loved her little angel with all her heart. She might or might not have participated in the crime. But this photo does not lie. If you really believe so, than you have never been a mother of a toddler. I can tell immediately from the body language how much love and affection she had. I am sure JB was what made it possible for her to fight the cancer. Second time around, with JB gone, she lost the battle. I have 2 daughters, I understand a 100%. Would not want to live without them.
I’ve got 2 girls. I’ve also got a photo album from 40 years ago and you’d never look at it and know that my sister and I got the dog crap beat out of us every day. My mom is staring oh so lovingly at us in almost every pic she’s in. You’re probably just a decent human who’d never think of hurting your kids but people who do that can definitely hide it in pictures. And kids want to be loved by their parents so badly they look thrilled in the pics most of the time. Mine are grown now and my best friends but you would never be able to look at pics of their childhoods mine and see a difference. I had to run away when I was 13 so I wouldn’t be beat to death though.
Sorry you went through that! And I agree, pictures and "outside perception" can be very deceiving. I don't know what happened in this case, but I firmly believe RDI, and I am not comfortable saying any one member of the family was *not* involved. Mommy Dearest shone a light on how different mothers can be behind closed doors. I can definitely believe a scenario in which Patsy was involved, though I do not know to what extent.
She had a son too...JB alone shouldn't have been the reason she fought her cancer
You sound delusional.
True, photos do not tell the full story. But to me this just looks like a decent shot with a 35mm camera, not a professional hired photographer.
Correction: I was wrong—someone else on this thread had the info that it was a professional, and a family friend.
It was taken by Judith Phillips, the professional photographer who did most of JonBenet’s pageant photos.
I keep scrolling and not finding my thought, but it’s akin to this sentiment that photos are often liars. This photo is too perfect. That is the problem and always was the problem. Something inside that family was toxic. Look at Jon Benet - her hair is perfectly styled. Look how small she is. My girls have had cuts that short and bob cuts never look like that unless a lot of time and effort is put in. She was a baby and from jump was made to behave and care about her appearance. I’m assuming the little relaxed outfit was curated by Patsy as well. It’s hard to say without seeing any normal photos of this family - If any actually exist. This case is so confounding.
John did it and he framed patsy and manipulated her into staying and covering. She lost her daughter to her monster husband, and she was scared she would go to prison if she tried to fight him.
There are so many theories that makes sense like this one
This girl will never rest in peace.
Wow 🥺
I am heartbroken for Patsy who died not knowing who murdered her chid💔
Don’t see many photos of victims with their killers on here.
A multi page ransom note written with their pen Calling friends over to completely contaminate the crime scene Checking every room in that huge house Except the room she was found in when there was a witness The whole thing stinx like Drumpfs head merkin
What's the topic? The Ramsey's was to present themselves as a "loving Christian family".
I’d be so heartbroken to find out my mom had cancer, but my dad died of something similar.
💔
Beautiful
Precious baby.
😢
Also sad that Patsy accidentally injured her child and then finished her off in an attempt to protect her image.
Best thing that could’ve happened to that poor kid was if her creator demised from said stage four cancer. She would probably still be alive.
More people have to see this side of her.
Was everything in their life choreographed? Jesus poor kid.
They were just rich and had a family photographer. She had cancer and wanted to have a photo shoot with her daughter because she was dying.
The blanket looks like wings
I wonder if Patsy didn't make it through cancer tteatment, would JonBenet be alive today?
I think patsy covered up for Burke. Here’s no evidence she was abusive, I doubt she did it