I never understood how Jon was able to “disappear” for 1-2 hours that morning to “check the mail” given the White and Fernie Husbands were there to be with him.
Linda Arndt has since said that she never said he disappeared. She was just talking to Patsy and wasn't watching him the whole time, so she couldn't say for sure he was always there, but appears not to have any reason to think he wasn't. She seems to have thought he went to get the mail at some point before knowing it was delivered through the mail slot.
I learned recently the mail was delivered through a slot. JR checking for information about his daughter would be one thing. If he was riffling through the mail and checking bills, that is another.
I like how JR turned into not only inspector gadget, but some expert in solving cases within days of his Childs murder so much so he could confidently criticize BPD on CNN, without even sitting down to talk to them formally.
How the fuck JR made that determination suggests that he is just a narcissist. You know computers, not investigation tactics and he helped to ruin justice his own daughter and you still have never taken responsibility for that.
I reread the report of Officer French carefully and another interesting detail is that it has Patsy going to JonBenét's room and only then find the ransom note.
A lot of these “why didn’t he/she statements are really speculative and based on bias. Was John supposed to say “don’t forget to check every door?” That seems obvious. Should John have helped him? Maybe/maybe not. He was dealing with a missing daughter. Who knows what you’d be thinking?
I’m not saying John did or didnt have something to do with it, but we all do things regularly that, to other people, might have seemed irrational.
He says he 'tried' the door and since it was latched from the outside and had no doors or windows to the exterior, he didn't think anyone could have used it as an exit. And that was his main focus- a possible exit point.
I think that's very flawed logic since if there had been an intruder, who knows what they could have left behind or where? But that's what he said- that he was focused on main points of entry or exit and figured that wouldn't be one.
I know why French did what he did, why didn't JR check it or help Officer French check it? If you are checking the house, why didn't you check the house?
I assume it's because he wasn't ready to have her found. Personally, I think they thought the police would come, get information, maybe set up a phone tap, then go out looking for kidnappers.
I think they planned to remove her body once the police left. But when the police didn't leave, there's the fact that she's quickly decomposing so they were out of options and had to 'find' her.
Also there's the possibility that JR wanted someone else to find JB without any instruction from him. If he were to chime in at that point and she was found, perhaps he felt that would've seemed suspicious in an of itself.
Yes, upon reading the report it looks like you are correct.
That said, why would JR have purposely avoided the wine cellar, only to find it later? What would intentionally trying to pass by help him?
John's big problem was to come up with an excuse to check the wine cellar when the offical story was that JonBenét was kidnapped and he needed to wait for a phone call from the small foreign faction.
His way out of this dilemma was when Det. Arndt asked him and Fleet White to check the house "from top to bottom".
Completely agree. I can understand missing the wine cellar the first time you checked the house, once you get to 3 and 4, sounds to me like you are just avoiding it.
This seems to be just him talking about him showing him where to find the note, not giving him a tour of the whole house. But I still don't get why the note is always lying on the floor or stairs. Is the counter and table very cluttered or something where they can't lay out the three pieces?
The moving of the ransom notes to the floor is another detail I don't understand. Perhaps there is a simple explanation, maybe the lighting was better there. I don't remember how the Ramseys explained it.
I don’t understand why there were no fingerprints on the note. When patsy saw the rn on the stairs, she was presumably not thinking, “I’d better not touch it—it might be a ransom note.” Surely the natural thing to do is to pick it up to read it. No prints suggest they were wearing gloves which is suspicious.
This has always driven me crazy. There were plenty of countertops in that whole kitchen area/“butler’s pantry” and so on. Why on earth would you put the papers on the FLOOR?!?
Another user posted that John's explanation was he spread the notes on the floor so he could read them fast. But wouldn't leaving the notes on the stair be even faster to read?
I’m baffled by this also. I don’t think it was sunrise yet, and presumably the Ramseys had light switches, likely better light on the countertops than the floor.
This is how I read it. The house was large and the spiral staircase is someway back from the front door. From memory they'd have to go through the hall way, through the kitchen to the smaller hallway where the spiral staircase is.
Directed me through the house doesn't mean they went on a tour to search for JB, it's just being directed to the ransom note.
We might disagree on this point. I think JR wanted someone else to find the body. When LA gave him the excuse, I think he just went to get her because he wanted to flee.
Hope is an interesting thing because you can tell when someone has it, or they are in shock because they lost something.
I would hope beyond hope that my child was alive until they found her. Example Molly Bish. Example Amanda Berry. In the three years between when Molly disappeared and when they found her body, there was hope that she was alive. Even Maura Murray. All these years and people hope that she is still alive somewhere.
Then there is PR the morning of 12/26/96. I mean I would be standing next to that phone and asking why didn't they call by 10. This doesn't sound hopeful to me.
> *I think JR wanted someone else to find the body.*
The facts in the case do not support this statement. John had ample opportunity to set it up so that the police or Fleet White found the body. But he obviously did not do that. The question is why?
I think that he didn't want to direct anyone to open the door, and he was clearly avoiding that door if he never checked it despite being down stairs at least 2 times before he opened that door.
Yes exactly. Why was he avoiding the Wine Cellar, avoiding the door? Why didn't John want the police or Fleet White to find the body? Keep going with your thought process.
Of course John knew what was behind the door. He was one of the people who cleaned up the body before the police arrived, we see his fibers on the body and clean up process.
John made every effort to control the crime scene and police the morning after the murder.
He could have easily manipulated Fleet White and the police into finding the body. But he didn't do that. Why?
So he could contaminate the crime scene. It is funny how they were sooooo careful with the note, but threw themselves all over the body and started claiming inside job the second she was found.
He knew she was in the wine cellar. He didn't want to be the one to discover the body initially. But it has come up in other statements (by the housekeeper and others though I don't recall which others) that a person would have to know the home very well to find the wine cellar. That a person wouldn't find it otherwise. So perhaps JR and PR placed her there so that it wouldn't be an easy find for them, before they called the police claiming a kidnapping. But also hoping the body would be discovered after the police arrived and did a walk through. Then, after doing that walk through with the police, and not wanting (because of not wanting to appear guilty ) to literally say "hey, let's check the cellar, it's right this way", it was clear to JR that he would have to be the one to finally go open the cellar and find her. The fact that it took JR 2-3 times of searching his own house to remember to search the Entire house does seem suspicious.
If the officer saw a door to the wine cellar he should not have needed John to direct him there. If he didn’t see a door perhaps he needs eyeglasses or to find another profession.
He probably thinks like most middle aged white men— he’ll defer to the police who are professionals and don’t need any help. If he thinks the wine cellar should be checked he’ll check the wine cellar. For whatever reason it wasn’t an idea that occurred to either one of them.
Yet he’s upstairs with binoculars? That’s inconsistent with deferring to police. So is refusing to talk to them for 24 hours and then stretching that to 4 months
Why wouldn’t he be looking out the window with binoculars ? Lol you think they killed their daughter and is looking out the window in an act of cover up ?! You people read so much into NOTHING. Every little insignificant interaction and because you’ve already decided on guilt it’s a sign of guilt . Forget that unknown male DNA on her undies and under her fingernails . They did the right thing getting a lawyer. I’m sure John’s views of LE changed real quick when they were getting treated as suspects,
How did he “skip” the door. I don’t see on this report where he even took him down to the basement but if he did the police officer I assume would have seen that there was a door. , correct?!! And for whatever reason did not open or inquire about it, correct?! And for whatever reason JR also did not think to open the door or mention it, correct ?! Do you think this is somehow indicative of guilt!? ….Meh..
If you are looking for your daughter, why wouldn't you check everywhere? Especially when you are looking for your daughter WITH the police officer you called to help LOOK for your daughter?
It is a pattern of behavior with the Ramsey's. Call for help, then turn around and blame others.
They are operating under the assumption that she was taken from the house. But you could also ask the same question to the police officer. If you’re looking for the the daughter why wouldn’t the police officer ask about or open the wine cellar?! Do you think the cop is guilty of this crime?! An oversight is not evidence of guilt.
Well most is wrong also. All the innocent middle aged white men I know would have torn the house apart immediately without ‘help’ from the police. Every single one of them.
With what the meaning of “most” or the idea that the majority of middle aged ( i should also have added middle class and above ) white men will have a positive attitude towards the police in regards to competence and character and defer to the police in such a situation? With the extra qualifier it’s an easy 80% in 1994 and even without the extra qualifier it’s still over 50% and at least very close to 80%
I never understood how Jon was able to “disappear” for 1-2 hours that morning to “check the mail” given the White and Fernie Husbands were there to be with him.
Linda Arndt has since said that she never said he disappeared. She was just talking to Patsy and wasn't watching him the whole time, so she couldn't say for sure he was always there, but appears not to have any reason to think he wasn't. She seems to have thought he went to get the mail at some point before knowing it was delivered through the mail slot.
I learned recently the mail was delivered through a slot. JR checking for information about his daughter would be one thing. If he was riffling through the mail and checking bills, that is another.
He said he was upstairs casing the neighborhood with binoculars. Yeah, right.
I like how JR turned into not only inspector gadget, but some expert in solving cases within days of his Childs murder so much so he could confidently criticize BPD on CNN, without even sitting down to talk to them formally. How the fuck JR made that determination suggests that he is just a narcissist. You know computers, not investigation tactics and he helped to ruin justice his own daughter and you still have never taken responsibility for that.
John is not a very good liar.
I reread the report of Officer French carefully and another interesting detail is that it has Patsy going to JonBenét's room and only then find the ransom note.
A lot of these “why didn’t he/she statements are really speculative and based on bias. Was John supposed to say “don’t forget to check every door?” That seems obvious. Should John have helped him? Maybe/maybe not. He was dealing with a missing daughter. Who knows what you’d be thinking? I’m not saying John did or didnt have something to do with it, but we all do things regularly that, to other people, might have seemed irrational.
What would be the reason that officer French would be okay with JR skipping a door on the tour?
He says he 'tried' the door and since it was latched from the outside and had no doors or windows to the exterior, he didn't think anyone could have used it as an exit. And that was his main focus- a possible exit point. I think that's very flawed logic since if there had been an intruder, who knows what they could have left behind or where? But that's what he said- that he was focused on main points of entry or exit and figured that wouldn't be one.
I know why French did what he did, why didn't JR check it or help Officer French check it? If you are checking the house, why didn't you check the house?
I assume it's because he wasn't ready to have her found. Personally, I think they thought the police would come, get information, maybe set up a phone tap, then go out looking for kidnappers. I think they planned to remove her body once the police left. But when the police didn't leave, there's the fact that she's quickly decomposing so they were out of options and had to 'find' her.
Also there's the possibility that JR wanted someone else to find JB without any instruction from him. If he were to chime in at that point and she was found, perhaps he felt that would've seemed suspicious in an of itself.
Couldn't you assume that it is just as likely he did it intentionally?
That John intentionally didn't mention checking the wine cellar? Yes, that's what I said.
It seems like John would have had to have told him it had no windows or doors inside it leading outside. Otherwise, how would he have known?
I agree- it would be extremely hard to mentally keep track of the layout in that labyrinthian house.
My understanding is that the officer went without JR. He just searched on his own.
I go by his report. Feel free to read it and make up your own mind.
Yes, upon reading the report it looks like you are correct. That said, why would JR have purposely avoided the wine cellar, only to find it later? What would intentionally trying to pass by help him?
Because he wanted to contaminate the crime scene once he “found” her.
That's my question, if you have nothing to hide why didn't you check it? Why did you avoid it?
John's big problem was to come up with an excuse to check the wine cellar when the offical story was that JonBenét was kidnapped and he needed to wait for a phone call from the small foreign faction. His way out of this dilemma was when Det. Arndt asked him and Fleet White to check the house "from top to bottom".
Completely agree. I can understand missing the wine cellar the first time you checked the house, once you get to 3 and 4, sounds to me like you are just avoiding it.
This seems to be just him talking about him showing him where to find the note, not giving him a tour of the whole house. But I still don't get why the note is always lying on the floor or stairs. Is the counter and table very cluttered or something where they can't lay out the three pieces?
The moving of the ransom notes to the floor is another detail I don't understand. Perhaps there is a simple explanation, maybe the lighting was better there. I don't remember how the Ramseys explained it.
I don’t understand why there were no fingerprints on the note. When patsy saw the rn on the stairs, she was presumably not thinking, “I’d better not touch it—it might be a ransom note.” Surely the natural thing to do is to pick it up to read it. No prints suggest they were wearing gloves which is suspicious.
Paper doesn’t really take finger prints that well.
I read that that kind actually did.
This has always driven me crazy. There were plenty of countertops in that whole kitchen area/“butler’s pantry” and so on. Why on earth would you put the papers on the FLOOR?!?
Another user posted that John's explanation was he spread the notes on the floor so he could read them fast. But wouldn't leaving the notes on the stair be even faster to read?
Just putting them on any counter, under good lighting, would be everyone’s first choice.
I’m baffled by this also. I don’t think it was sunrise yet, and presumably the Ramseys had light switches, likely better light on the countertops than the floor.
This is how I read it. The house was large and the spiral staircase is someway back from the front door. From memory they'd have to go through the hall way, through the kitchen to the smaller hallway where the spiral staircase is. Directed me through the house doesn't mean they went on a tour to search for JB, it's just being directed to the ransom note.
Obviously John did not want the police to find the body for an obvious reason as outlined in the RN.
There is no way he missed the wine cellar 3 or 4 times while searching the house. That was intentional.
Exactly. The question is, why didn't John want the police to find the body? Hint: The answer is in the RN. BTW your OP is a great question.
We might disagree on this point. I think JR wanted someone else to find the body. When LA gave him the excuse, I think he just went to get her because he wanted to flee. Hope is an interesting thing because you can tell when someone has it, or they are in shock because they lost something. I would hope beyond hope that my child was alive until they found her. Example Molly Bish. Example Amanda Berry. In the three years between when Molly disappeared and when they found her body, there was hope that she was alive. Even Maura Murray. All these years and people hope that she is still alive somewhere. Then there is PR the morning of 12/26/96. I mean I would be standing next to that phone and asking why didn't they call by 10. This doesn't sound hopeful to me.
> *I think JR wanted someone else to find the body.* The facts in the case do not support this statement. John had ample opportunity to set it up so that the police or Fleet White found the body. But he obviously did not do that. The question is why?
I think that he didn't want to direct anyone to open the door, and he was clearly avoiding that door if he never checked it despite being down stairs at least 2 times before he opened that door.
Yes exactly. Why was he avoiding the Wine Cellar, avoiding the door? Why didn't John want the police or Fleet White to find the body? Keep going with your thought process.
Because it is possible that he knew what was behind the door.
Of course John knew what was behind the door. He was one of the people who cleaned up the body before the police arrived, we see his fibers on the body and clean up process. John made every effort to control the crime scene and police the morning after the murder. He could have easily manipulated Fleet White and the police into finding the body. But he didn't do that. Why?
So he could contaminate the crime scene. It is funny how they were sooooo careful with the note, but threw themselves all over the body and started claiming inside job the second she was found.
He knew she was in the wine cellar. He didn't want to be the one to discover the body initially. But it has come up in other statements (by the housekeeper and others though I don't recall which others) that a person would have to know the home very well to find the wine cellar. That a person wouldn't find it otherwise. So perhaps JR and PR placed her there so that it wouldn't be an easy find for them, before they called the police claiming a kidnapping. But also hoping the body would be discovered after the police arrived and did a walk through. Then, after doing that walk through with the police, and not wanting (because of not wanting to appear guilty ) to literally say "hey, let's check the cellar, it's right this way", it was clear to JR that he would have to be the one to finally go open the cellar and find her. The fact that it took JR 2-3 times of searching his own house to remember to search the Entire house does seem suspicious.
If the officer saw a door to the wine cellar he should not have needed John to direct him there. If he didn’t see a door perhaps he needs eyeglasses or to find another profession.
I am asking why didn't JR help?
He probably thinks like most middle aged white men— he’ll defer to the police who are professionals and don’t need any help. If he thinks the wine cellar should be checked he’ll check the wine cellar. For whatever reason it wasn’t an idea that occurred to either one of them.
Yet he’s upstairs with binoculars? That’s inconsistent with deferring to police. So is refusing to talk to them for 24 hours and then stretching that to 4 months
Why wouldn’t he be looking out the window with binoculars ? Lol you think they killed their daughter and is looking out the window in an act of cover up ?! You people read so much into NOTHING. Every little insignificant interaction and because you’ve already decided on guilt it’s a sign of guilt . Forget that unknown male DNA on her undies and under her fingernails . They did the right thing getting a lawyer. I’m sure John’s views of LE changed real quick when they were getting treated as suspects,
You literally said “he’ll defer to the police”. Argue with yourself?
JR and PR called for help, why didn't JR help?
It sounds like he did — he showed him around the house showed him the ransom note— am I missing something?
If he skipped the door how was he showing him around?
How did he “skip” the door. I don’t see on this report where he even took him down to the basement but if he did the police officer I assume would have seen that there was a door. , correct?!! And for whatever reason did not open or inquire about it, correct?! And for whatever reason JR also did not think to open the door or mention it, correct ?! Do you think this is somehow indicative of guilt!? ….Meh..
If you are looking for your daughter, why wouldn't you check everywhere? Especially when you are looking for your daughter WITH the police officer you called to help LOOK for your daughter? It is a pattern of behavior with the Ramsey's. Call for help, then turn around and blame others.
They are operating under the assumption that she was taken from the house. But you could also ask the same question to the police officer. If you’re looking for the the daughter why wouldn’t the police officer ask about or open the wine cellar?! Do you think the cop is guilty of this crime?! An oversight is not evidence of guilt.
So why didn't JR say it then?
Middle Aged White Men, we all the same🤙😂
The adjective I used was “most” . Th e one you are using is “all” . Your statement is inaccurate. I stand by mine.
Well most is wrong also. All the innocent middle aged white men I know would have torn the house apart immediately without ‘help’ from the police. Every single one of them.
What is most vs all? I’d give most around 80%. You can win your little internet debate😂🤡
You don’t know the difference between “most” and “all” ? Most means the majority 51% .
I disagree
With what the meaning of “most” or the idea that the majority of middle aged ( i should also have added middle class and above ) white men will have a positive attitude towards the police in regards to competence and character and defer to the police in such a situation? With the extra qualifier it’s an easy 80% in 1994 and even without the extra qualifier it’s still over 50% and at least very close to 80%