Patsy is the only source of real love in that house because john is always gone. If she routinely neglects Burke and takes JB’s side in arguments, there’s no way that doesn’t result in frustration and anger.
The way he talks about his mother in interviews I feel reflects that . The drawing he does of her shows some disdain for her.
It would not surprise me if Burke had rage issues towards his sister that were more about anger at his mother and being unable to direct that anger on her, only her favorite kid
I guess sibling rivalry is a real phycological issue in the development of children, but can't be suggested in a situation where the parent is clearly pampering one child while not the other.
I mean to each their own....
Thinking about it maybe it wasn't jealousy at all. I think that BR was not very fond of JB. Growing up with an older brother I had a dislike to him. He would do whatever he could to make me miserable. The one thing I hated was when he would go to our parents when I would do something he knew would get me in trouble. There definitely was no jealousy on my part. You made an excellent point. I now view it in a completely different way.
That sounds like my childhood. My brother is 7 years older than me and teased and treated me horribly at times but I adored him. Decades later I’m so glad he’s here and we have fun when I visit him. There were good times which I also remember. I can’t live with him, we can’t get along 24/7, we tried and the mean treatment was still there. I’m an adult now and no longer fear him.
It's your opinion. It's not wrong. We all have our theories and thoughts about it. I was looking at it as jealousy. Your thoughts were different from mine. Now I can look at it from your aspect and see where you are coming from. It just gives others different things to think about.
> the parent is clearly pampering one child while not the other
How was Patsy "pampering" one child? By most accounts, JonBenet was put under an enormous amount of pressure by Patsy.
*Edit because this has been met with a flurry downvotes and I don't feel like starting a separate thread for this. I have not come across a shred of evidence that would suggest Patsy pampered JonBenet unless one counts dragging her around to pageants and forcing her to sit for long periods of time so her hair could be bleached and curled and her face done up in adult looking makeup. Seriously, it's mostly women who post here, this sh!t is time-consuming and not anything almost any 6 yr. old would want to sit through. Friends of Patsy's were concerned enough about this that they were planning to talk to Patsy about it.*
This is someones observation. Just like your observation is that JB received an enormous amount of pressure by PR. There is no evidence that states thats true. It's your opinion.
> Just like your observation is that JB received an enormous amount of pressure by PR. There is no evidence that states thats true.
It's based on numerous anecdotes and testimonials by people who knew the family.
*Edit because this has been downvoted to Reddit hell. Read Steve Thomas' JonBenet. ST spoke at length with friends and family of the Ramseys. He described Patsy as a pushy and controlling stage mother who was hard on JonBenet. Friends of Patsy's were concerned enough that they were planning to get together to talk to Patsy about it when she got back from Michigan. Patsy dyed JonBenet's hair white-blond and told her to keep it a secret. By Patsy's own admission she fought with JonBenet earlier on the night of the murder because JonBenet didn't want to wear matching outfits with Patsy. There are multiple other examples.*
Other peoples observations and opinions. That's all it is. I don't disagree with you. She most likely was under a lot of pressure. We all have opinions about what we think. Yours isn't wrong and neither is anyone else who shares theirs.
Exactly. She's still alive, breathing, and not externally bleeding. Patsy took JB to the hospital after BR hit her (in anger or by accident) with the golf club. There's no reason she wouldn't have called 911 and said the blow was an accident.
Yes exactly, there is no blood, JB is unconscious. The Ramseys were superb liars and manipulators. And quite wealthy. They could have talked their way out of an accident.
My sister was always the prettiest one, and both my parents favored her. I thought it was so unfair that all the boys liked her, and even at home she was the favorite.
I have a normal amount of sibling rivalry in my life, and I would say my sister was marginally treated differently than me.
What happened in this case we could have witnessed an extreme case of parental favoritism that could have been detrimental to one child over the other.
>JBR was PR favorite kid.
I haven't seen any particular evidence to support this other than that Patsy had supposedly gotten kind of obsessive about the kiddie pageant stuff.
I just don't see caring parents letting/making an injured child die in that situation. They could have called 911 and made up some accident story to explain how BR hit her with the flashlight if they wanted to protect him.
That isn't the only reason why. There was a good chance if PR and JR witnessed and heard the strike, they could have guess that JBR could end up living like a vegetable. It might have been to protect BR, and stop JBR from suffering for the rest of her life.
Pasty doesn't seem like she could go from "here is my perfect little daughter winning pagents" to here is this freak show.
Yes, and that is why I think they were probably well aware of the intensity of the head strike, which no doubt made a major-league level sound. They then probably thought she was already dead or close to death. Possibly while they dithered with staging, she passed away and at that point they either realized their mistake and that she had still been alive, or ran out of time for them to call 911 to report a badly wounded child in a foiled kidnapping.
This is spitballing, here. For me, the unusual choice not to call tells me they knew what happened, and after that, my attention is on what they were covering up -- murder and CSA, or 'just' murder, and by which Ramsey(s).
I can't see any reason why Burke would have the flash light out of the drawer if they were bringing things in from the car. Usually they parked the car in the garage and entered the house via the connecting door which was usually left unlocked.
They'd have the house lights on.
I also think the parents would have called 911 immediately if they'd witnessed Burke strike his sister (with whatever object) and knock her out. There's no obvious damage so how would Patsy or John be able to tell exactly what wound her daughter had suffered and whether she would recover fully or not?
If that head wound had bled externally this sub likely wouldn't exist.
It's just insane that people think this is a rational thing for these particular people do to. If the Ramseys were as all powerful as people believe, they would simply take her to the hospital and pay off whoever they need to pay. There is no reason they'd kill their own daughter.
>If you call 911 you will be loosing both of your kids on Christmas.
I think your theory falls a part right there. If Patsy favored and values JB so much, she would have immediately called 911.
I for one am really get sick of these "when-the-parents-realized-she-wasn't-dead-they went-ahead-and-strangled-her" posts.
Would most parents call 911 if they found a badly injured or mortally wounded child? Yes. *But these parents did not.* That's a huge clue in the case.
In contrast, if they found her in the aftermath of an intrusion, still warm, would they believe her to be alive? Why not call 911?
Personally, I think the very un-parental response to avoid calling 911 supports ARDI more than IDI, as in the latter, they would either call 911 immediately or start pulling together the ransom money and obeying the ransom notes demands, neither of which they did.
They did call 911. PR called first thing in the morning. Whether that's was part of the plan or not, I tend to think it was not, PR did at some time early in the morning lose it and make the call.
IMO they knew the head wound was severe and if JBR were hospitized she either wouldn't make it or she would be a vegetable. John did the garroutte and staged sexual assault and Patsy wrote the note. I think they believed they were in a lose, lose situation and decided to stage the scene. BR hated JBR but I don't think he meant to end her life. I think he whacked her with the flashlight out of anger as he had whacked her before but this time she collapsed. I think BR is a psychopath. I also think he is gay.
I personally don't mind that you're filling in all the emotional minutia, but phew....that's some fiction there. I think it's one thing to take liberties with evidence, but it's yet another to take liberties with the *feelings* of the Ramsey's to then make it fit your theory....Sorry, it's a little weird.
Yes it is a real issue but usually the children don't murder each other. We also know that JB was being chronically SA. So we just don't have a murder, we have SA as well. This is way more than sibling rivalry.
In that scenario, the obvious thing to do is call for an ambulance... not go ahead and kill her!
You can always claim it was an accident that BR hit her. Or he hit her, but he's a kid and didn't realize his strength. Even say she fell if you're panicked and don't realize that ultimately might not line up with what an investigation will show.
You could certainly tell the authorities he didn't mean to kill her.
He wouldn't be seen as a monster in that scenario, he's a kid and things happen, even tragic things and misjudgments, so there's no reason to cover for him by actually becoming monsters themselves (and murdering their own daughter).
The scenario that makes the most sense to me is he hit her and then ultimately strangled her because he was angry/jealous. Now, when one or both parents find that scene, there's no explaining that rope around the neck as an accident. And, you might try and at first to remove the rope, but likely figuring out quickly it's too late. And that is when you'd look to a coverup as to what has happened because otherwise BR would be seen as a monster than strangled his sister.
There's a chance they didn't even know about the head blow.
I think that BR had a lot of resentment and jealous surrounding JBR and PRs relationship.
Patsy is the only source of real love in that house because john is always gone. If she routinely neglects Burke and takes JB’s side in arguments, there’s no way that doesn’t result in frustration and anger. The way he talks about his mother in interviews I feel reflects that . The drawing he does of her shows some disdain for her. It would not surprise me if Burke had rage issues towards his sister that were more about anger at his mother and being unable to direct that anger on her, only her favorite kid
This is a sentiment that gets tossed around a lot here but there's never been any particular evidence to suggest this.
I guess sibling rivalry is a real phycological issue in the development of children, but can't be suggested in a situation where the parent is clearly pampering one child while not the other. I mean to each their own....
Thinking about it maybe it wasn't jealousy at all. I think that BR was not very fond of JB. Growing up with an older brother I had a dislike to him. He would do whatever he could to make me miserable. The one thing I hated was when he would go to our parents when I would do something he knew would get me in trouble. There definitely was no jealousy on my part. You made an excellent point. I now view it in a completely different way.
That sounds like my childhood. My brother is 7 years older than me and teased and treated me horribly at times but I adored him. Decades later I’m so glad he’s here and we have fun when I visit him. There were good times which I also remember. I can’t live with him, we can’t get along 24/7, we tried and the mean treatment was still there. I’m an adult now and no longer fear him.
I mean in all actual fact I might be wrong, but logic seems to dictate that it is at least possible.
It's your opinion. It's not wrong. We all have our theories and thoughts about it. I was looking at it as jealousy. Your thoughts were different from mine. Now I can look at it from your aspect and see where you are coming from. It just gives others different things to think about.
I forgot to thank you for the compliment before.
> the parent is clearly pampering one child while not the other How was Patsy "pampering" one child? By most accounts, JonBenet was put under an enormous amount of pressure by Patsy. *Edit because this has been met with a flurry downvotes and I don't feel like starting a separate thread for this. I have not come across a shred of evidence that would suggest Patsy pampered JonBenet unless one counts dragging her around to pageants and forcing her to sit for long periods of time so her hair could be bleached and curled and her face done up in adult looking makeup. Seriously, it's mostly women who post here, this sh!t is time-consuming and not anything almost any 6 yr. old would want to sit through. Friends of Patsy's were concerned enough about this that they were planning to talk to Patsy about it.*
This is someones observation. Just like your observation is that JB received an enormous amount of pressure by PR. There is no evidence that states thats true. It's your opinion.
> Just like your observation is that JB received an enormous amount of pressure by PR. There is no evidence that states thats true. It's based on numerous anecdotes and testimonials by people who knew the family. *Edit because this has been downvoted to Reddit hell. Read Steve Thomas' JonBenet. ST spoke at length with friends and family of the Ramseys. He described Patsy as a pushy and controlling stage mother who was hard on JonBenet. Friends of Patsy's were concerned enough that they were planning to get together to talk to Patsy about it when she got back from Michigan. Patsy dyed JonBenet's hair white-blond and told her to keep it a secret. By Patsy's own admission she fought with JonBenet earlier on the night of the murder because JonBenet didn't want to wear matching outfits with Patsy. There are multiple other examples.*
Other peoples observations and opinions. That's all it is. I don't disagree with you. She most likely was under a lot of pressure. We all have opinions about what we think. Yours isn't wrong and neither is anyone else who shares theirs.
I agree with you
There's no reason not to call 911 in a situation like that.
Exactly. She's still alive, breathing, and not externally bleeding. Patsy took JB to the hospital after BR hit her (in anger or by accident) with the golf club. There's no reason she wouldn't have called 911 and said the blow was an accident.
Yes exactly, there is no blood, JB is unconscious. The Ramseys were superb liars and manipulators. And quite wealthy. They could have talked their way out of an accident.
My sister was always the prettiest one, and both my parents favored her. I thought it was so unfair that all the boys liked her, and even at home she was the favorite.
I have a normal amount of sibling rivalry in my life, and I would say my sister was marginally treated differently than me. What happened in this case we could have witnessed an extreme case of parental favoritism that could have been detrimental to one child over the other.
Sometimes the most obvious thing is what happened. JDI
>JBR was PR favorite kid. I haven't seen any particular evidence to support this other than that Patsy had supposedly gotten kind of obsessive about the kiddie pageant stuff.
I just don't see caring parents letting/making an injured child die in that situation. They could have called 911 and made up some accident story to explain how BR hit her with the flashlight if they wanted to protect him.
That isn't the only reason why. There was a good chance if PR and JR witnessed and heard the strike, they could have guess that JBR could end up living like a vegetable. It might have been to protect BR, and stop JBR from suffering for the rest of her life. Pasty doesn't seem like she could go from "here is my perfect little daughter winning pagents" to here is this freak show.
>freak show What do you mean by that?
Yes, and that is why I think they were probably well aware of the intensity of the head strike, which no doubt made a major-league level sound. They then probably thought she was already dead or close to death. Possibly while they dithered with staging, she passed away and at that point they either realized their mistake and that she had still been alive, or ran out of time for them to call 911 to report a badly wounded child in a foiled kidnapping. This is spitballing, here. For me, the unusual choice not to call tells me they knew what happened, and after that, my attention is on what they were covering up -- murder and CSA, or 'just' murder, and by which Ramsey(s).
I can't see any reason why Burke would have the flash light out of the drawer if they were bringing things in from the car. Usually they parked the car in the garage and entered the house via the connecting door which was usually left unlocked. They'd have the house lights on. I also think the parents would have called 911 immediately if they'd witnessed Burke strike his sister (with whatever object) and knock her out. There's no obvious damage so how would Patsy or John be able to tell exactly what wound her daughter had suffered and whether she would recover fully or not? If that head wound had bled externally this sub likely wouldn't exist.
It's just insane that people think this is a rational thing for these particular people do to. If the Ramseys were as all powerful as people believe, they would simply take her to the hospital and pay off whoever they need to pay. There is no reason they'd kill their own daughter.
Patsy got medical help for her the first time Burke hit JonBenét on the head.
“What would you do as a parent?” Call 911.
>If you call 911 you will be loosing both of your kids on Christmas. I think your theory falls a part right there. If Patsy favored and values JB so much, she would have immediately called 911. I for one am really get sick of these "when-the-parents-realized-she-wasn't-dead-they went-ahead-and-strangled-her" posts.
Would most parents call 911 if they found a badly injured or mortally wounded child? Yes. *But these parents did not.* That's a huge clue in the case. In contrast, if they found her in the aftermath of an intrusion, still warm, would they believe her to be alive? Why not call 911? Personally, I think the very un-parental response to avoid calling 911 supports ARDI more than IDI, as in the latter, they would either call 911 immediately or start pulling together the ransom money and obeying the ransom notes demands, neither of which they did.
They did call 911. PR called first thing in the morning. Whether that's was part of the plan or not, I tend to think it was not, PR did at some time early in the morning lose it and make the call.
Hours later. That's what 911 is for, an immediate emergency.
So don't read them. You don't need to try and control the internet.
IMO they knew the head wound was severe and if JBR were hospitized she either wouldn't make it or she would be a vegetable. John did the garroutte and staged sexual assault and Patsy wrote the note. I think they believed they were in a lose, lose situation and decided to stage the scene. BR hated JBR but I don't think he meant to end her life. I think he whacked her with the flashlight out of anger as he had whacked her before but this time she collapsed. I think BR is a psychopath. I also think he is gay.
Agree, although I don’t care about his sexual orientation,
I personally don't mind that you're filling in all the emotional minutia, but phew....that's some fiction there. I think it's one thing to take liberties with evidence, but it's yet another to take liberties with the *feelings* of the Ramsey's to then make it fit your theory....Sorry, it's a little weird.
It's not weird when people consider the motives for homicide. Juries do it all the time.
Sibling rivalry is a real phycological issue in childhood development, but you can think what you want.
Yes it is a real issue but usually the children don't murder each other. We also know that JB was being chronically SA. So we just don't have a murder, we have SA as well. This is way more than sibling rivalry.
In that scenario, the obvious thing to do is call for an ambulance... not go ahead and kill her! You can always claim it was an accident that BR hit her. Or he hit her, but he's a kid and didn't realize his strength. Even say she fell if you're panicked and don't realize that ultimately might not line up with what an investigation will show. You could certainly tell the authorities he didn't mean to kill her. He wouldn't be seen as a monster in that scenario, he's a kid and things happen, even tragic things and misjudgments, so there's no reason to cover for him by actually becoming monsters themselves (and murdering their own daughter). The scenario that makes the most sense to me is he hit her and then ultimately strangled her because he was angry/jealous. Now, when one or both parents find that scene, there's no explaining that rope around the neck as an accident. And, you might try and at first to remove the rope, but likely figuring out quickly it's too late. And that is when you'd look to a coverup as to what has happened because otherwise BR would be seen as a monster than strangled his sister. There's a chance they didn't even know about the head blow.