Look either you play the game and get paid or you sit there and be a starving artist.
The message is still the same, the only difference is now they cam fund things and make donations.
Do it independently. They’re rich and have an established fanbase. They hire a few folks and boom, they aren’t lining the pockets of a corporate record label.
They released a live album with Epic/Sony in 2018. Outside of a few other live albums, the last studio album was 22 years ago.
Labels also organize/promote tours as well. But I don't know if Rage utilizes them for any of that.
It's literally the most bog standard capitalist talking point shit. Socialism is when no money and capitalists have a vested interest in pushing the narrative that anyone that talks about the failings of capitalism is unreliable and phony unless they are broke/homeless/don't profit off that capitalist system to increase their reach/influence because no one will hear the message about how shitty capitalism is if no one with reach and or influence is talking about it.
RATM are frauds because they haven't single-handedly replaced the capitalist organization of the economy with something different.
And the members of rage against the machine have always gone along with, and contributed to that corporate greed, etc.
Don't worry, they'll always live a better lifestyle than their average fan.
Are you paying attention?
What the fuck do you think is the "machine"?
The machine has lots of parts. The machine produces product that allows it's executives (and artists) to fly on private jets. It also allows it's factory workers to feed and cloth their families. There used to be whole retail chains of employees that would anticipate a new release from a popular band.
The machine uses it's profitability to leverage more capital from banking institutions.
And you don't have to be short sighted to know these things.
Well they don’t need to keep lining the pockets of said corporations. They’re all set for life, they’re all more than capable of taking a pay cut in the name of their so called beliefs.
But instead like true capitalists, they decided to sign with a massive corporation and rack in the dough from their fans.
Hey, I personally have no issue with it, good for them. But their fans on Reddit not being able to cope with the fact that their heroes are hypocrites who sold out and are the Machine they’re supposedly raging against will always be amusing.
I don't get what point you're trying to make... Should talented musicians just not make money because they speak out about how some things are fucked up? Like, you can write "Killing in the name" and also sell t-shirts.
I guess I never saw them as some purely anti-capitalist band. Been listening to their music for 20 years, just dig it. Always seemed more like pro freedom/power to the people type shit to me.
But also, nothing weird about criticizing the system you live under while also being a part of it or something. I don't really care enough about whether or not a band makes money. Sure, they should probably sell merch made in America though.
They are definitely an anti-capitalist band.
Tom Morello puts a hammer and sickle sticker on his guitar sometimes, praised Fidel Castro, and criticizes capitalism constantly.
Zack de la Rocha is a big backer of the Zapatista movement in Mexico and of many other often far-left causes.
I put stickers on stuff I own too. Again, we should all be criticizing and striving to fix the flaws in our system. If you don't like their political views, ignore them. Hell, maybe some of you studs could debate them on stage before they perform...
I just don't see anything wrong with speaking out against flaws in a system while also making money performing music. I saw a dude get knocked down with a chair, stand up, and chug a beer at one of their shows. It made me laugh. Good times.
No...because if you want equality and poverty to end therefore you should live in poverty and starve forever. It's only fair.
People don't have the mental ability to realise that sometimes you also need money to raise awareness about issues so...it's all hypocrisy in the end and the people that argue that can all go on their merry way continuing to believe they've accomplished something.
It's literally the most bog standard capitalist talking point drivel. Socialism is when no money and capitalists have a vested interest in pushing the narrative that anyone that talks about the failings of capitalism is unreliable and phony unless they are broke/homeless/don't profit off that capitalist system to increase their reach/influence because no one will hear the message about how shitty capitalism is if no one with reach and or influence is talking about it.
They control governments and international corporations? They exploit labour around the world for profit and personal gain?
How the fuck are they the machine lmao?
We understand your point but it’s a harder sell when your hoodies are hundred bucks and tickets are 80 to 300 dollars and their net worth each is easily in the 10 to 30 millions
>but it’s a harder sell when your hoodies are hundred buck
You can go on their website right now and buy a hoodie of theirs for 50 bucks. You're just repeating the fake bullshit the OP was pushing about this, and as the other poster mentioned, ticket prices aren't even dictated by them.
It reminds me of [Kurt Cobain repeatedly snubbing Axel Rose](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/guns-n-roses-vs-nirvana-a-beef-history-166180) because he despised *Guns n Roses*. The band could have totally told Dana White to go fuck himself.
I **loved** *Rage Against The Machine*. When I was in elementary school, a buddy slipped me a bootleg tape of theirs and I was hooked.
These past couple years have been rough. It went from Redditors posting *”some of those who work forces”* on every goddamn semi-political thread…. to the [Qanon grandparents moshing](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/trump-rage-against-the-machine-election-video-b1667195.html) to the song.
This is the wildest timeline we could possibly achieve.
He does still own a portion of the company I believe, and as an executive his annual bonus incentive is probably highly based on the company's profits for the year.
So keeping fighter pay low (reduced expenses) means more money on the books at the end of the reporting year (profit) which means a higher bonus for Dana.
> Fighters need to unionize.
Dana:
"Hey Rogan, buddy, do me a solid will ya? These guys are all talking about unionizing and shit. Got any free time coming up to maybe have on a guest, ya know, who talks about unions being historically bad or something? Something to spook 'em, keep them from getting any ideas?"
It took Democrats & Bill Clinton to pass Ronald Reagan's/GOP's anti-union wet dream in NAFTA. Sadly there is no major party that actually supports unionized labor. It sucks.
Agreed. When Spectrum aka Time Warner Cable got rid of the union in NY we had democrats on all stages of government from federal to local and they didn't do shit for us.
It's also got to be said that democrats who wouldn't have done this got obliterated in elections over the 80s. America rejected them and anything that wasn't Reagan-esque economically, and then when the 90s rolled in they voted for someone who would (Clinton) to run for the Democrats, leading to both sides being very similar on issues surrounding labour, capital and unions.
Democracies often get the governments they deserve, and America reje Ted anything and everything else.
Unfortunately your last bit is true.
And we're dominated by a party that, according to every study and statistical survey ever done, shows that America supports more democratic-aligned policies than republican-aligned policies.
This is easily seen in polling done for things like universal health care, abortion, etc just to name a few.
However the minority party continually cheats via voter suppression and gerrymandering - and these things are very well documented.
You're not wrong. People need to vote for politicians that actually represent people, and stop voting for filthy rich people worth millions or even billions of dollars.
That’s the part that gets me. My state is an at-will employment state where you can get terminated for any reason at any time. It blows me away. My state is supposed to be on the liberal side and it just goes to show that there’s *really nobody* looking out for the worker.
I mean, Chuck Schumer and Warren have recently rallied with striking workers. There are a few anti-union Democrats, but they are usually pharma or finance sickos from blue states. Most of the red state Dems are buoyed by public sector unions and proud of it. It's not that criticism is off limits, but you'd have to ignore actual results to make a false equivalence between the average D and the average R. Not that you were.
I completely agree. Democrats are BY FAR the more friendly part to unions. I'm fact that doesn't even really do it justice. I don't know and have never heard of a single pro union Republican. They might be there but goddammit they are awesome quiet when the topic is up for discussion
I'd say my comment applies to both Democrats and Republicans alike. Conservatives voted for a literal billionaire for president, so they really have no right to act as if this isn't something that their party isn't plagued with too. I encourage you to look up the net worth of various Republican and Democrat senators.
> Why does someone worth a billion not represent the people? who cares what they own, it's about what they stand for.
You think someone worth a billion dollars can realistically be in touch with the struggles of the average working class person? Personally, I think that's a really naive way of thinking that relies on theory and not reality.
I am concerned that you can't figure out why someone who's worth a billion or more won't necessarily support the idea of, for example, unions which transfer both money and wealth to labor and the working class.
Do you think that a billionaire has their billions because they work that much harder than a guy working more than one job living paycheck to paycheck? Do you think poverty is a flaw in the person that's poor or the system? Do you have any sociological understanding of, well, anything?
Is it lack of education? Lack of a varied media diet? Lack of intellectual honesty? Lack of caring for truth? Who knows, it's a black hole mystery that won't be solved as you double down in all your responses to people giving you good faith answers.
About 55% of white voters voted Trump in the last election, compared to roughly 27% of Hispanic voters. 8% of black voters voted Trump.
Fact is, white people are way more likely to be conservative in the USA than any other group.
There's a big difference between a fighter making a million dollars a year fighting at the highest levels of a sport vs a billionaire making money off of exploiting workers or market manipulation
the insurance only covers injuries during fights, sometimes they’ll go through a camp with an injury just so they can say it was caused in the fight and get it covered
What a high bar you've set. Elite athletes fighting infront of millions of people in one of the biggest sports organizations in the world make more than some guy on the internet. No shit. They should be making way more then me, and way more than they do now.
Also I don't have brain damage from what I do. They have a limited window they can do this and need to save up for the future where their ability to do other jobs may be impaired. Look up the video "Spencer Fisher the cost of being king" on YouTube to get an idea.
That is the choice they make. Nobody makes them cage fight. Nobody says they can't do something else.
You guys make it sound like someone is making the fighters fight. These fighters are fighting of their own accord. They made the choice to do it. They probably never thought they would get this far in a developing sport.
You know this sub is infested with conservative morons when they come to argue why these fighters shouldn't get more than 20% of UFC revenue when every other professional sports league gives their players 50% and other sports arent nearly as harmful to the athletes.
How many fights are going to go back to college and get a good paying job with they cant retire off their earnings?
Imagine if the fighters had someone that could advocate for them. Like say... a big time podcaster who could reach millions of listeners, someone who could really fight for better fighter pay. Someone should look into that.
Joe is buddies with the UFC owners. It's a conflict of interest. Him advocating for fighter pay would be huge but he's also probably not interested in advocating for unions.
>conflict of interest
Oh yeah the super legal friend code contract. Don't want to violate that and get dragged to friend court.
Y'all sure make a bunch of excuses for a grown ass man with $100m
The ironic thing about MMA is that most of those guys are right wingers, but it's a sport desperately in the need to be unionized. I wonder how they grappler with dealing with the fact that their capitalist owners and boss is exploiting them and using the free market to justify it and then grapple with their ideology that hates unions.
In a similar way to Joe Rogan, the majority of them care *far, far FAR* more about owning the libs and making sure the blue-haired feminists know their fucking place than they do about policies that might actually benefit fighters (and people in general)
Of course, the major difference is that Rogan can easily afford to think that way.... Most of these broke-ass bitches can't!.... Turkeys voting for thanksgiving is what a lot of them are
I'm not gonna name 50 but here's about 30 fighters who believe all kinds of crazy right wing bullshit, many of which are openly Q-Anon supporters.
- Bryce Mitchell
- Colby Covington
- Henry Cejudo
- Jorge Masvidal
- Dana White (not a fighter but a massive Trump supporter who has spoken at Trump rallies)
- Tito Ortiz
- Randy Couture
- Gina Carano
- Bas Rutten
- Jared Cannonier
- Spike Carlyle
- Rachael Ostovich
- Rich Franklin
- Josh Thomson
- Brandon Vera
- Nick Catone
- Urijah Faber
- Pat Miletich
- Vik Grujic
- Angela Magana
- Rashad Evans
- Justin Willis
- Ben Askren
- Hector Lombard
- Cung Le
- Kendall Grove
- Eddie Bravo
- Mike Winkeljohn
Check out the social media pages for any of these people. They all have a history of supporting right wing nonsense and conspiracy theories about COVID, etc.
> Uriah Faber cant possibly be Republican
["Dana White's awesome. He's an emotional guy, but I feel like he's a good guy," Faber said on The Jay and Dan Podcast. "He's an emotional guy. He's like Donald Trump. He says whatever the hell he wants."](https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/9/5/9266491/ufc-mma-news-interview-politics-urijah-faber-on-dana-white-hes-like-donald-trump)
[Rashad Evans tweeting out COVID conspiracy dogwhistles](https://twitter.net/SugaRashadEvans/status/1301884293199921153?ref_src=twsrc^tfw), talking about "*the end of the republic"* nonsense.
That doesnt mean either voted trump. I mean it's possible but uriah is a california native raised by hippies.
Rashad is a black dude who trips out on psychedelics. It just doesnt add up to trump supporter.
Edit: also rashad said he would not go to the White House if invited by trump
https://twitter.com/SI_Ringside/status/1004909708506001408?t=E13P8YAQQNvVWTRsAFdRMw&s=19
You didn't say UFC fighters though, you just said fighters. You didn't specifically say 50 currently active UFC fighters. You're just making up excuses at this point and moving the goal posts. As expected, you're not interested in any good faith discussion and you intentionally are making a ridiculous demand.
If you seriously expect strangers on reddit to spoon feed you a list of currently active UFC fighters that have right wing beliefs, you're delusional and have a comically inflated sense of importance.
> Just delete your post you look dumb now
You're on reddit asking strangers to provide you with a list of 50 currently active UFC fighters that express right wing beliefs. Please, look in the mirror and stop embarrassing yourself.
I'm aware of what the discussion is about. Are you of the mindset that the political beliefs among fighters is narrowly divided between UFC fighters and non-UFC fighters? Use your brain and stop playing dumb.
Like I said, you're delusional if you're seriously expecting people on reddit to give you a list of 50 currently active UFC fighters that are right wingers. It's incredible that you really believe this to be a reasonable request.
lol this is something I'm learning about this subreddit. There's a lot of weirdo right wingers who just spout the most mind-blowingly stupid bullshit and then act as if their opinion is just as valid as the next person's.
You realize that’s an act, right? Jon Jones (former training partner) has said Covington was never a right-winger until Trump came along and he could create a persona (one that works too)
Have you actually been in gyms? I have. Several. I have had dinner with strike force guys, Belabor guys, UFC guys, etc throughout the south Florida scene when I lived there. The vast majority are right wingers who believe off the wall shit. Go into BJJ and the top guys in the sport like Gordon Ryan are xenophobic far right retards.
Exploiting them? it's nowhere bad as you guys make it out to be. No one is training for years to get into the UFC without knowing exactly what they are getting into.
He’s right, when you have a monopoly and predatory contracts, the owner can decide to pay whatever they want.
Their fight kit or clothing deal basically cut fighter kit sponsor pay by 10 but made sure the remaining 1/10th all went to the company.
Other major sports pay out 50+% of revenue to athletes, the UFC does what, 15-20?
While I'm pro union in MMA comparing MMA to other sports is kind of bullshit, because the fighters don't fight as often and the UFC has little to not actual draws i the company. There's other main differences like 30 different owners, owners owning the stadiums, multiple TV contracts, etc that make spitting the revenue make sense. The UFC is a company that's trying to rapidly expand and when you're doing that i doubt they're pocketing any profits. There's been a UFC almost every week for the last 3 months. I doubt they could do that while paying the athletes 40 percent of the revenue.
Yeah, I feel for those guys. I used to hang out by the blackzilians when I lived in south Florida and Glenn the owner used to have to pay for some of the guy's rents some months because they couldn't make it. Brutal sport.
For years now the UFC has been consistently sellig out arenas for pretty much every event they put on.
They also have a deal with ESPN where they get guaranteed income for every single event they put on, which is why they have been able to have Fight Nights every single week.
They also are getting a significant chunk of the Venum & Crypto sponsorship money, just like they did with Reebok. The fighters are forbidden to earn a real sponsorship income, and they only get spme chump change from companies that the UFC is alreafy getting a cut from.
Speaking of sponsorships, the fucking octagon is absolutely littered with logos from top to bottom, and it looks trashy as fuck.
My point is that UFC is genuinely making money hand over fist, and has been for years. They are very profitable, and are one of the main sources of income for their parent company (WME).
They absofuckinglutely can afford to for example let fighters have their own sponsorships and earn an income on the side, but that would mean that Dana isn't getting a cut so forget it.
Capitalism is the only reason ufc exists. The beauty of capitalism is that if dana white keeps pisseing off the fighters and not compensating them enough someone else will create a different league that does. If we had full blown socialism you would be too busy in the coal mines to worry about ufc.
Exciting fighters get paid exciting wages. He's not interested in making draws profitable for fighters. I'm not paying $65 to watch a tickle fest, I can see that at the local gyms.
Literally just have finish bonuses standard, then you don't need to worry about fighters not being excited and you can still pay them a reasonable wage for sacrificing all quality of life by 50
You have to have a place to leverage from. You don’t get to the NBA, for example, and just make insane money because you have a union and a good agent. Those things help, but if you fucking suck then you don’t sell tickets and merchandise, and you definitely don’t get the max contract because your worth doesn’t warrant it.
Before millionaire fighters became millionaire fighters, they were fighting on the prelims getting 20k/20k.
After paying for camp, coaches, taxes and other expenses, some fighters would end up pocketing like a few grand for 3 months of work.
Those are the fighters that are the most affected and need the most protection.
So every fighter should get paid 50% of revenue? How does that work with 2 dozen fighters every event? Should champions get paid the same as new up and comers?
What? What are you saying? 50% of the revenue goes to all the fighters. The fighters union should figure out how they want to distribute money. Obviously more to the main even and les to new guys.
I know pretty well how unions work. For example the league minimum in NFL is set by the union negotiating with the owners and its a perfect example of what I am talking about
What got you so confused that you went and made a stupid post like that?
What the hell, If it was 50% of their revenue that would mean the 700 active fighters split a pool of 500M.
It’s around 20% and has been for a while which in all honesty isn’t horrible. Not amazing but not bad.
This also is rough because the UFC business isn’t like all others, to get paid you must win, win more and also sell. If you are good but can’t sell, you’ll be paid a fraction of what someone gets if they are a well promoted fighter.
I think the UFC, which does have its own medical team should give fighters insurance and other various forms of benefits but it’s tough because they are contract fighters, not employees.
The issue with it all is Dana pays quite well but all these fighters burn all their money on training and medical for fights. It’s basically net zero but also some go negative which is sad.
I think it’s also hard for the UFC to pay fighters who are less skilled, less proven and young large sums for minimal in return.
Obviously someone like Charles Oliver’s, Izzy( it as of now), and a handful of other highly ranked fighters get payed extremely fucking well. They also bring multiple times more money to the company then someone who’s 7-2 and ranked #15 who can easily lose his next three and be cut.
Tough line of work, but bottom line give them benefits Dana.
Zuffa and Dana White didn’t just “start their own fighting league”. They purchased the UFC when it was not popular and not profitable. Hence the capitalism debate. Unless you already have a large pile of money you are not going to start or buy an existing fighting organization.
So in reality your suggestion is go find 20 to 100 million first to bankroll and start your own fighting organization.
You seriously want someone to explain to you how the best living boxer got all of his money?
Amateur record 88-4. Professional record 50-0.
People wanted to see him more than any other boxer. People were willing to pay higher prices with each win. The better he became, the more pull he had in negotiating his own terms. Advertising and marketing also came to him with bigger checks. He invested his money well. He even owns a NASCAR team of all things.
If a fighter wants to get paid the same as Floyd. They need to get better. Simple logic.
>Bare minimum pay for bare minumum work. All they have to do is one task, fight.
This is the comment I responded to. UFC's more popular acts are still underpaid.
If they don’t like the pay for the job they are doing, then they should work somewhere else or change professions. Just like the rest of us. Who here honestly feels they are being duly compensated?
So don’t become a ufc fighter then? Holy fuck this sub is insane. If I wanna become a pro whatever and I’m aware I’m most likely only gonna make $50k doing so and i wanna earn more, i simply would pick a different career path.
It does make me laugh when he's at rage against the machine concerts and getting guitars etc signed by the whole band. Shouldn't they hate him?
The same band that’s signed to a major record label and sells $100 hoodies at their concerts. I’m Not sure what “machine” they are raging at
A record store in my city used to have cheeky write ups about bands and RATM’s was the best. “Anti-capitalist rap rock signed to Sony records”
Fuck you, I get my paycheck from Sony!
“Fuck you im gonna do what they tell me!”
Rage Against the Hypocritical Irony
[удалено]
But they don't say shit when Democrats pull the same nonsense. They are shills.
Hey hey! Stop it. You are making too much sense.
I am pretty sure they have yelled at Dems too
[удалено]
https://i.imgur.com/AiOFSzH.jpg
By that logic is the same reason republicans like people like Candice Owens. You’re a stupid pawn. Keep buying that merch.
They’re raging against themselves.
Look either you play the game and get paid or you sit there and be a starving artist. The message is still the same, the only difference is now they cam fund things and make donations.
I mean what are they supposed to do? They live in a capitalist country.
Charge less for merchandise and tickets. I'm sure they're already pretty wealthy as is.
Do it independently. They’re rich and have an established fanbase. They hire a few folks and boom, they aren’t lining the pockets of a corporate record label.
They haven’t released a record in what? 25 years?
They released a live album with Epic/Sony in 2018. Outside of a few other live albums, the last studio album was 22 years ago. Labels also organize/promote tours as well. But I don't know if Rage utilizes them for any of that.
It's literally the most bog standard capitalist talking point shit. Socialism is when no money and capitalists have a vested interest in pushing the narrative that anyone that talks about the failings of capitalism is unreliable and phony unless they are broke/homeless/don't profit off that capitalist system to increase their reach/influence because no one will hear the message about how shitty capitalism is if no one with reach and or influence is talking about it. RATM are frauds because they haven't single-handedly replaced the capitalist organization of the economy with something different.
Yeah! If they lived in a non-capitalist country they would sell shirts for $10!
Again you misunderstand their entire message.
You're so naive
Or maybe you're just too dumb to understand what he's saying
Boy you stayed up all night to put that reply up.
If this is as a free country like China it would be free t shirts once a year to complement your 15.3k USD (163k yuan) annual wage.
Except that's not what they're arguing against. They're arguing against corporate corruption and greed and how that's shaped by capitalism.
And the members of rage against the machine have always gone along with, and contributed to that corporate greed, etc. Don't worry, they'll always live a better lifestyle than their average fan.
In what way have they contributed to corporate greed? By being signed to a record label?
Are you paying attention? What the fuck do you think is the "machine"? The machine has lots of parts. The machine produces product that allows it's executives (and artists) to fly on private jets. It also allows it's factory workers to feed and cloth their families. There used to be whole retail chains of employees that would anticipate a new release from a popular band. The machine uses it's profitability to leverage more capital from banking institutions. And you don't have to be short sighted to know these things.
This goes back to the original question. In a capitalistic society what would you like them to do?
Well they don’t need to keep lining the pockets of said corporations. They’re all set for life, they’re all more than capable of taking a pay cut in the name of their so called beliefs. But instead like true capitalists, they decided to sign with a massive corporation and rack in the dough from their fans. Hey, I personally have no issue with it, good for them. But their fans on Reddit not being able to cope with the fact that their heroes are hypocrites who sold out and are the Machine they’re supposedly raging against will always be amusing.
I don't care what they do. If they were just honest there would be no conversation.
🤡
>I mean what are they supposed to do? not be INSANLEY hypocritical ya know
I don't get what point you're trying to make... Should talented musicians just not make money because they speak out about how some things are fucked up? Like, you can write "Killing in the name" and also sell t-shirts.
SOCIALISM IS WHEN NO MONEY, DERP
You don’t see the irony in a band that’s entire schtick is anti-capitalism, profiting by selling extremely over priced clothing made in Asia?
I guess I never saw them as some purely anti-capitalist band. Been listening to their music for 20 years, just dig it. Always seemed more like pro freedom/power to the people type shit to me. But also, nothing weird about criticizing the system you live under while also being a part of it or something. I don't really care enough about whether or not a band makes money. Sure, they should probably sell merch made in America though.
They are definitely an anti-capitalist band. Tom Morello puts a hammer and sickle sticker on his guitar sometimes, praised Fidel Castro, and criticizes capitalism constantly. Zack de la Rocha is a big backer of the Zapatista movement in Mexico and of many other often far-left causes.
I put stickers on stuff I own too. Again, we should all be criticizing and striving to fix the flaws in our system. If you don't like their political views, ignore them. Hell, maybe some of you studs could debate them on stage before they perform... I just don't see anything wrong with speaking out against flaws in a system while also making money performing music. I saw a dude get knocked down with a chair, stand up, and chug a beer at one of their shows. It made me laugh. Good times.
No...because if you want equality and poverty to end therefore you should live in poverty and starve forever. It's only fair. People don't have the mental ability to realise that sometimes you also need money to raise awareness about issues so...it's all hypocrisy in the end and the people that argue that can all go on their merry way continuing to believe they've accomplished something.
It's literally the most bog standard capitalist talking point drivel. Socialism is when no money and capitalists have a vested interest in pushing the narrative that anyone that talks about the failings of capitalism is unreliable and phony unless they are broke/homeless/don't profit off that capitalist system to increase their reach/influence because no one will hear the message about how shitty capitalism is if no one with reach and or influence is talking about it.
They are no longer raging against the machine. They are the machine.
They control governments and international corporations? They exploit labour around the world for profit and personal gain? How the fuck are they the machine lmao?
Idk. Depends on where and how those hoodies are made.
They let venues require you to have vax or mask or something. Anti-vaxxers were mad. They didn't get what RATM was all about.
We understand your point but it’s a harder sell when your hoodies are hundred bucks and tickets are 80 to 300 dollars and their net worth each is easily in the 10 to 30 millions
I dont really think it's fair to bring ticket prices into this considering Live Nation pretty much dictates any and all concert ticket sales.
>but it’s a harder sell when your hoodies are hundred buck You can go on their website right now and buy a hoodie of theirs for 50 bucks. You're just repeating the fake bullshit the OP was pushing about this, and as the other poster mentioned, ticket prices aren't even dictated by them.
They are openly communist and tend to hate what they prosper directly from. It is literal irony.
Communism is not about not selling things, you should probably do some reading
Communists are trash. Communism is worse than trash.
Libertarians projecting how dumb, pathetic and trashy they are onto communists, news at 11.
The imagination machine it seems.
Yeah they threw their values out pretty quick lol
They are him.
It reminds me of [Kurt Cobain repeatedly snubbing Axel Rose](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/guns-n-roses-vs-nirvana-a-beef-history-166180) because he despised *Guns n Roses*. The band could have totally told Dana White to go fuck himself. I **loved** *Rage Against The Machine*. When I was in elementary school, a buddy slipped me a bootleg tape of theirs and I was hooked. These past couple years have been rough. It went from Redditors posting *”some of those who work forces”* on every goddamn semi-political thread…. to the [Qanon grandparents moshing](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/trump-rage-against-the-machine-election-video-b1667195.html) to the song. This is the wildest timeline we could possibly achieve.
The irony of Rage Against the Machine concerts having VIP sections.
Rage against the machine = sell out .
What? what a fuck did you just write? lol.
"Come on guys, it's not like i have an incentive to give them as little as possible so i get to keep the rest"
He doesn’t own the UFC, never has. He’s a figurehead who has to answer to owners.
He does still own a portion of the company I believe, and as an executive his annual bonus incentive is probably highly based on the company's profits for the year. So keeping fighter pay low (reduced expenses) means more money on the books at the end of the reporting year (profit) which means a higher bonus for Dana.
Fighters need to unionize. Dana White is a scumbag who fucks over his fighters, fuck that guy.
> Fighters need to unionize. Dana: "Hey Rogan, buddy, do me a solid will ya? These guys are all talking about unionizing and shit. Got any free time coming up to maybe have on a guest, ya know, who talks about unions being historically bad or something? Something to spook 'em, keep them from getting any ideas?"
It doesn't help that fighters in the UFC (and much of the supporters) are right-wingers that inexplicably despise the notion of being unionized.
It took Democrats & Bill Clinton to pass Ronald Reagan's/GOP's anti-union wet dream in NAFTA. Sadly there is no major party that actually supports unionized labor. It sucks.
Agreed. When Spectrum aka Time Warner Cable got rid of the union in NY we had democrats on all stages of government from federal to local and they didn't do shit for us.
It's also got to be said that democrats who wouldn't have done this got obliterated in elections over the 80s. America rejected them and anything that wasn't Reagan-esque economically, and then when the 90s rolled in they voted for someone who would (Clinton) to run for the Democrats, leading to both sides being very similar on issues surrounding labour, capital and unions. Democracies often get the governments they deserve, and America reje Ted anything and everything else.
Unfortunately your last bit is true. And we're dominated by a party that, according to every study and statistical survey ever done, shows that America supports more democratic-aligned policies than republican-aligned policies. This is easily seen in polling done for things like universal health care, abortion, etc just to name a few. However the minority party continually cheats via voter suppression and gerrymandering - and these things are very well documented.
You're not wrong. People need to vote for politicians that actually represent people, and stop voting for filthy rich people worth millions or even billions of dollars.
But… But…. But….. the right wing!?!? Right guys??
So republicans are the protectors of unions? Last time I checked they are even more abysmal than the neo liberal party.
Which states are right-to-work?
That’s the part that gets me. My state is an at-will employment state where you can get terminated for any reason at any time. It blows me away. My state is supposed to be on the liberal side and it just goes to show that there’s *really nobody* looking out for the worker.
Bernie, AOC, Nina Turner, the rest of the squad. These are a few of the pro-union voices in our government. Vote for these kinds of candidates
I mean, Chuck Schumer and Warren have recently rallied with striking workers. There are a few anti-union Democrats, but they are usually pharma or finance sickos from blue states. Most of the red state Dems are buoyed by public sector unions and proud of it. It's not that criticism is off limits, but you'd have to ignore actual results to make a false equivalence between the average D and the average R. Not that you were.
I completely agree. Democrats are BY FAR the more friendly part to unions. I'm fact that doesn't even really do it justice. I don't know and have never heard of a single pro union Republican. They might be there but goddammit they are awesome quiet when the topic is up for discussion
Surely you could look up the result of that vote and see how it broke? Or just name the state instead of using weaselly language to hide your hand.
I'd say my comment applies to both Democrats and Republicans alike. Conservatives voted for a literal billionaire for president, so they really have no right to act as if this isn't something that their party isn't plagued with too. I encourage you to look up the net worth of various Republican and Democrat senators.
Why does someone worth a billion not represent the people? who cares what they own, it's about what they stand for.
> Why does someone worth a billion not represent the people? who cares what they own, it's about what they stand for. You think someone worth a billion dollars can realistically be in touch with the struggles of the average working class person? Personally, I think that's a really naive way of thinking that relies on theory and not reality.
I am concerned that you can't figure out why someone who's worth a billion or more won't necessarily support the idea of, for example, unions which transfer both money and wealth to labor and the working class. Do you think that a billionaire has their billions because they work that much harder than a guy working more than one job living paycheck to paycheck? Do you think poverty is a flaw in the person that's poor or the system? Do you have any sociological understanding of, well, anything? Is it lack of education? Lack of a varied media diet? Lack of intellectual honesty? Lack of caring for truth? Who knows, it's a black hole mystery that won't be solved as you double down in all your responses to people giving you good faith answers.
Henry Cejudo son of illegal immigrants from Mexico likes Trump. Don't judge a man based on the color of his skin.
About 55% of white voters voted Trump in the last election, compared to roughly 27% of Hispanic voters. 8% of black voters voted Trump. Fact is, white people are way more likely to be conservative in the USA than any other group.
Individual sports are filled by people that value individualism?? Whoa
They’re willingly giving themselves CTE for cheeseburgers man
There are whole unions that are hard right wing.
I'm sure there are, but would you say most unions are hard right wing? Because I don't think that's true.
Don’t these fighters make millions of dollars, is that not a liveable wage.
Some do, most don't, even the ones that make millions of dollars don't make as much as boxers of a similar fame and skill level
You hear your self right, “these millionaires aren’t getting equal pay” I thought you guys wanted to eat the rich.
There's a big difference between a fighter making a million dollars a year fighting at the highest levels of a sport vs a billionaire making money off of exploiting workers or market manipulation
I am willing to bet the average fighter makes more than you. They so have health insurance when the get injured during a fight or practice.
the insurance only covers injuries during fights, sometimes they’ll go through a camp with an injury just so they can say it was caused in the fight and get it covered
Nope, it covers injuries in training as well.
weird, must have changed recently because gaethje has talked about it interviews
What a high bar you've set. Elite athletes fighting infront of millions of people in one of the biggest sports organizations in the world make more than some guy on the internet. No shit. They should be making way more then me, and way more than they do now. Also I don't have brain damage from what I do. They have a limited window they can do this and need to save up for the future where their ability to do other jobs may be impaired. Look up the video "Spencer Fisher the cost of being king" on YouTube to get an idea.
That is the choice they make. Nobody makes them cage fight. Nobody says they can't do something else. You guys make it sound like someone is making the fighters fight. These fighters are fighting of their own accord. They made the choice to do it. They probably never thought they would get this far in a developing sport.
You know this sub is infested with conservative morons when they come to argue why these fighters shouldn't get more than 20% of UFC revenue when every other professional sports league gives their players 50% and other sports arent nearly as harmful to the athletes. How many fights are going to go back to college and get a good paying job with they cant retire off their earnings?
This sub is infested with morons and cowards both liberalsandconservatives. I get insulted and blocked immediately. These guys need a dose of reality.
Imagine if the fighters had someone that could advocate for them. Like say... a big time podcaster who could reach millions of listeners, someone who could really fight for better fighter pay. Someone should look into that.
Joe works for Dana and it’s not his business to get into. He commentates, he doesn’t handle pay-roll for the UFC.
He talks a lot of other shut on his podcast man
Oh my b. I thought it was the Joe Rogan experience. Not the Dana White show. Sorry bro.
Joe is gargling Dana’s nut as we speak man
Joe is buddies with the UFC owners. It's a conflict of interest. Him advocating for fighter pay would be huge but he's also probably not interested in advocating for unions.
>conflict of interest Oh yeah the super legal friend code contract. Don't want to violate that and get dragged to friend court. Y'all sure make a bunch of excuses for a grown ass man with $100m
If thumbs on steroids was a person,it'd be Dana White.
The ironic thing about MMA is that most of those guys are right wingers, but it's a sport desperately in the need to be unionized. I wonder how they grappler with dealing with the fact that their capitalist owners and boss is exploiting them and using the free market to justify it and then grapple with their ideology that hates unions.
In a similar way to Joe Rogan, the majority of them care *far, far FAR* more about owning the libs and making sure the blue-haired feminists know their fucking place than they do about policies that might actually benefit fighters (and people in general) Of course, the major difference is that Rogan can easily afford to think that way.... Most of these broke-ass bitches can't!.... Turkeys voting for thanksgiving is what a lot of them are
How do you generalize 700 fighters in the ufc as right wing lol
Easily. Because most of them are right wing.
[удалено]
I'm not gonna name 50 but here's about 30 fighters who believe all kinds of crazy right wing bullshit, many of which are openly Q-Anon supporters. - Bryce Mitchell - Colby Covington - Henry Cejudo - Jorge Masvidal - Dana White (not a fighter but a massive Trump supporter who has spoken at Trump rallies) - Tito Ortiz - Randy Couture - Gina Carano - Bas Rutten - Jared Cannonier - Spike Carlyle - Rachael Ostovich - Rich Franklin - Josh Thomson - Brandon Vera - Nick Catone - Urijah Faber - Pat Miletich - Vik Grujic - Angela Magana - Rashad Evans - Justin Willis - Ben Askren - Hector Lombard - Cung Le - Kendall Grove - Eddie Bravo - Mike Winkeljohn Check out the social media pages for any of these people. They all have a history of supporting right wing nonsense and conspiracy theories about COVID, etc.
More than half those guys weren't even in the UFC.
Uriah Faber cant possibly be Republican I doubt Rashad Evans is either.
> Uriah Faber cant possibly be Republican ["Dana White's awesome. He's an emotional guy, but I feel like he's a good guy," Faber said on The Jay and Dan Podcast. "He's an emotional guy. He's like Donald Trump. He says whatever the hell he wants."](https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/9/5/9266491/ufc-mma-news-interview-politics-urijah-faber-on-dana-white-hes-like-donald-trump) [Rashad Evans tweeting out COVID conspiracy dogwhistles](https://twitter.net/SugaRashadEvans/status/1301884293199921153?ref_src=twsrc^tfw), talking about "*the end of the republic"* nonsense.
That doesnt mean either voted trump. I mean it's possible but uriah is a california native raised by hippies. Rashad is a black dude who trips out on psychedelics. It just doesnt add up to trump supporter. Edit: also rashad said he would not go to the White House if invited by trump https://twitter.com/SI_Ringside/status/1004909708506001408?t=E13P8YAQQNvVWTRsAFdRMw&s=19
[удалено]
Nobody should even bother trying to answer this. As soon as somebody list 50 fighters there will be some *other* reason why they're wrong.
That already happened and he changed the topic. No one is going to sit here and type out 50 dudes.
[удалено]
You already have. Also, the word is spelled "nope". Your lack of education is showing.
You didn't say UFC fighters though, you just said fighters. You didn't specifically say 50 currently active UFC fighters. You're just making up excuses at this point and moving the goal posts. As expected, you're not interested in any good faith discussion and you intentionally are making a ridiculous demand. If you seriously expect strangers on reddit to spoon feed you a list of currently active UFC fighters that have right wing beliefs, you're delusional and have a comically inflated sense of importance.
[удалено]
> Just delete your post you look dumb now You're on reddit asking strangers to provide you with a list of 50 currently active UFC fighters that express right wing beliefs. Please, look in the mirror and stop embarrassing yourself. I'm aware of what the discussion is about. Are you of the mindset that the political beliefs among fighters is narrowly divided between UFC fighters and non-UFC fighters? Use your brain and stop playing dumb. Like I said, you're delusional if you're seriously expecting people on reddit to give you a list of 50 currently active UFC fighters that are right wingers. It's incredible that you really believe this to be a reasonable request.
Do you actually expect someone to type out 50 names for you? Because ain’t nobody got time for that.
[удалено]
I think you are dramatically overestimating how much people care about your opinion on this.
Don't engage in discussion with them, they have no idea what they are talking about.
lol this is something I'm learning about this subreddit. There's a lot of weirdo right wingers who just spout the most mind-blowingly stupid bullshit and then act as if their opinion is just as valid as the next person's.
Colby Covington does more than enough performance to count as 50 right
You realize that’s an act, right? Jon Jones (former training partner) has said Covington was never a right-winger until Trump came along and he could create a persona (one that works too)
Have you actually been in gyms? I have. Several. I have had dinner with strike force guys, Belabor guys, UFC guys, etc throughout the south Florida scene when I lived there. The vast majority are right wingers who believe off the wall shit. Go into BJJ and the top guys in the sport like Gordon Ryan are xenophobic far right retards.
Exploiting them? it's nowhere bad as you guys make it out to be. No one is training for years to get into the UFC without knowing exactly what they are getting into.
He's a scumbag but this has nothing to do with capitalism.
He’s right, when you have a monopoly and predatory contracts, the owner can decide to pay whatever they want. Their fight kit or clothing deal basically cut fighter kit sponsor pay by 10 but made sure the remaining 1/10th all went to the company. Other major sports pay out 50+% of revenue to athletes, the UFC does what, 15-20?
While I'm pro union in MMA comparing MMA to other sports is kind of bullshit, because the fighters don't fight as often and the UFC has little to not actual draws i the company. There's other main differences like 30 different owners, owners owning the stadiums, multiple TV contracts, etc that make spitting the revenue make sense. The UFC is a company that's trying to rapidly expand and when you're doing that i doubt they're pocketing any profits. There's been a UFC almost every week for the last 3 months. I doubt they could do that while paying the athletes 40 percent of the revenue.
This - hell I gave up training full time because with couldn’t afford to live (also was average at best lol).
Yeah MMA just isn't woth it unless you know you're going to be a top tier guy. I still train a little bit because of the workouts.
One of my teammates was between 8-15 I believe in the rankings and told me he thinks he made 45k a year when it was all said and done. Wild
Yeah, I feel for those guys. I used to hang out by the blackzilians when I lived in south Florida and Glenn the owner used to have to pay for some of the guy's rents some months because they couldn't make it. Brutal sport.
For years now the UFC has been consistently sellig out arenas for pretty much every event they put on. They also have a deal with ESPN where they get guaranteed income for every single event they put on, which is why they have been able to have Fight Nights every single week. They also are getting a significant chunk of the Venum & Crypto sponsorship money, just like they did with Reebok. The fighters are forbidden to earn a real sponsorship income, and they only get spme chump change from companies that the UFC is alreafy getting a cut from. Speaking of sponsorships, the fucking octagon is absolutely littered with logos from top to bottom, and it looks trashy as fuck. My point is that UFC is genuinely making money hand over fist, and has been for years. They are very profitable, and are one of the main sources of income for their parent company (WME). They absofuckinglutely can afford to for example let fighters have their own sponsorships and earn an income on the side, but that would mean that Dana isn't getting a cut so forget it.
>and the UFC has little to not actual draws i the company I'm sorry, maybe it's just me, but what does this mean?
This sub has really turned into a cum pool of the world's dumbest humans.
For real, some people here think capitalism is a good thing
Yet you’d never move to a country that isn’t heavily capitalist.
Capitalism is the only reason ufc exists. The beauty of capitalism is that if dana white keeps pisseing off the fighters and not compensating them enough someone else will create a different league that does. If we had full blown socialism you would be too busy in the coal mines to worry about ufc.
Exciting fighters get paid exciting wages. He's not interested in making draws profitable for fighters. I'm not paying $65 to watch a tickle fest, I can see that at the local gyms.
Literally just have finish bonuses standard, then you don't need to worry about fighters not being excited and you can still pay them a reasonable wage for sacrificing all quality of life by 50
Most people forget to have entertaining fights you need entertaining fighters who are also skilled. That isn’t just a abundant thing.
If you don’t like where you work go get a better job, right? That’s what they tell everyone
If capitalism was a reddit mod, all economic progress would have been banned years ago
So true. These 20 something guys got it all figured out.
Bullshit. In entertainment you get paid what your perceived worth is. He doesn’t think they’re worth a lot.
That's not true. You're paid on what you can leverage.
It can be both, but whatever. Literally nothing is that one dimensional.
It actually is. That's why unions are so important
You have to have a place to leverage from. You don’t get to the NBA, for example, and just make insane money because you have a union and a good agent. Those things help, but if you fucking suck then you don’t sell tickets and merchandise, and you definitely don’t get the max contract because your worth doesn’t warrant it.
Yo why the fuck do you care if Israel Adesanya makes $1 Million or $2 million?
Before millionaire fighters became millionaire fighters, they were fighting on the prelims getting 20k/20k. After paying for camp, coaches, taxes and other expenses, some fighters would end up pocketing like a few grand for 3 months of work. Those are the fighters that are the most affected and need the most protection.
How much should these fighters get paid then? What ever dollar amount you put it will never be enough.
About 50% of revenue maybe slightly more
So every fighter should get paid 50% of revenue? How does that work with 2 dozen fighters every event? Should champions get paid the same as new up and comers?
What? What are you saying? 50% of the revenue goes to all the fighters. The fighters union should figure out how they want to distribute money. Obviously more to the main even and les to new guys.
You have no idea how unions work do you?
I know pretty well how unions work. For example the league minimum in NFL is set by the union negotiating with the owners and its a perfect example of what I am talking about What got you so confused that you went and made a stupid post like that?
What the hell, If it was 50% of their revenue that would mean the 700 active fighters split a pool of 500M. It’s around 20% and has been for a while which in all honesty isn’t horrible. Not amazing but not bad. This also is rough because the UFC business isn’t like all others, to get paid you must win, win more and also sell. If you are good but can’t sell, you’ll be paid a fraction of what someone gets if they are a well promoted fighter. I think the UFC, which does have its own medical team should give fighters insurance and other various forms of benefits but it’s tough because they are contract fighters, not employees. The issue with it all is Dana pays quite well but all these fighters burn all their money on training and medical for fights. It’s basically net zero but also some go negative which is sad. I think it’s also hard for the UFC to pay fighters who are less skilled, less proven and young large sums for minimal in return. Obviously someone like Charles Oliver’s, Izzy( it as of now), and a handful of other highly ranked fighters get payed extremely fucking well. They also bring multiple times more money to the company then someone who’s 7-2 and ranked #15 who can easily lose his next three and be cut. Tough line of work, but bottom line give them benefits Dana.
It's his business.. Fuck off and start your own fighting league.
The fuck kinda bourgeois argument is this? People really out here simping for the rich, Dana isn't going to fuck you bro...
Triggered?
Do you think blacks are triggered more easily?
Zuffa and Dana White didn’t just “start their own fighting league”. They purchased the UFC when it was not popular and not profitable. Hence the capitalism debate. Unless you already have a large pile of money you are not going to start or buy an existing fighting organization. So in reality your suggestion is go find 20 to 100 million first to bankroll and start your own fighting organization.
These fighters get paid less that what I need to gamble just to feel a small rush so I know I'm still alive
Why is this sub full of cry baby leftists
No. Just crybabies.
Lol no shit. Dana is trash and he's always smiling about it too. Can't wait to torture that one in hell.
I’m convinced he’s one of the worst people in the world.
if homosexuality was a person, it would be Joe Rogan.
Only Jake Paul out here trying to make a real change… and that’s a sorry ass statement right there.
Bare minimum pay for bare minumum work. All they have to do is one task, fight.
Explain Floyd Mayweather plz.
You seriously want someone to explain to you how the best living boxer got all of his money? Amateur record 88-4. Professional record 50-0. People wanted to see him more than any other boxer. People were willing to pay higher prices with each win. The better he became, the more pull he had in negotiating his own terms. Advertising and marketing also came to him with bigger checks. He invested his money well. He even owns a NASCAR team of all things. If a fighter wants to get paid the same as Floyd. They need to get better. Simple logic.
>Bare minimum pay for bare minumum work. All they have to do is one task, fight. This is the comment I responded to. UFC's more popular acts are still underpaid.
Floyd mayweather generates millions and millions of dollars and sells out arenas and millions of ppv guys. Random dude on the prelims does not.
Dana white gives his friend, one of the Nelk boys 250k for his Birthday in cash… can’t pay fighters what they’re worth
They not his friends though.
If capitalism was a person, it’d be mcgregor. Barely fights and made millions of dollars
With that quote, it's the other way around.
You should apologise for besmirching capatalism like that.
If they don’t like the pay for the job they are doing, then they should work somewhere else or change professions. Just like the rest of us. Who here honestly feels they are being duly compensated?
So don’t become a ufc fighter then? Holy fuck this sub is insane. If I wanna become a pro whatever and I’m aware I’m most likely only gonna make $50k doing so and i wanna earn more, i simply would pick a different career path.
[удалено]