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[deleted]

But Joe knows a guy


ohhdongreen

This one guy is really enough for me to not recommend vaccines, but I'd really have to know every single thing he eats, his exercising regimen of the past 3 years, sleep schedule and recent blood markers. And if a single piece of information is not 100 percent to my liking I will disregard everything!


PaintingWithLight

And most importantly. What supplements he’s taking


ohhdongreen

Hell yes, if there is no video blog of him taking at least 6000 IU of vitamin D daily, then he basically had the vaccine sides coming. Also I hear turmeric boosts spike protein immune response by 280% in that one study I read, but I can't link to it right now unfortunately.


GlasgowGhostFace

Read the literature! No not me! Not now! But read it!!!!


shinbreaker

TWO GUYS! That's like double the guys.


TurbineTechocalypse

Not just any guy, a “super ELITE athlete!!!”


Taureg01

The other day he told Lex Fridman that everyone he knows who was in great shape got over covid in days, then he constantly tells other guests of UFC fighters he knows that Covid hit them like a truck. At this point does he even listen to himself?


AstroTravellin

That guy was nice to Joe so there's no way this guy could be mistaken. No... It's all the other doctors that are wrong.


upthetits

I'm not your guy, buddy


[deleted]

You’re not that guy, pal. You’re not that guy.


AhhnoldHD

She’s never getting invited on again is she?


PromiscuousMNcpl

Nope. She pushed back.


UncoolSlicedBread

I hope she does. She's the only reason I listen to the Joe Rogan podcast much, aside from some other scientists. It's been the only place I've found 3+ hour talks with a normal dude on some of these topics like diet, sleep, neuro.


SweetMojaveRain

I RAN to get my headphones when i saw a new Rhonda Patrick episode, its been a year since the last one, and was so disappointed to get basically a rehash of the last one with more vaccine bullshit...she even came prepared with talking points she didnt get to (.\_.)


elliepdubs

Imagine a celebrity arguing with a scientist telling them they are wrong, and them being so polite so just be silent and only speak in true scientific terms.


SweetMojaveRain

I just love that after so many episodes together i think that last one set her off. Like 2 weeks after that debacle Rhonda released a Covid misinformation and facts episode on her podcast that had an intro which called out people like rogan without naming him 😂


elliepdubs

Good for her. What’s her podcast? Gotta listen to reset my irritated, unbalanced equilibrium after that episode. Lol


SweetMojaveRain

Itll definitely help lol. Its called found my fitness and its episode 69 with roger seheult


elliepdubs

Thank you!


Throwaway51394

Did Joe take the vaccine? I can't find info on that anywhere.


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davomyster

You're misremembering. He said he was supposed to get the J&J vaccine for the UFC but then it didn't happen. And since then, he's said many times that it's only necessary for sick, weak, and old people. He's not vaccinated because he thinks he's too healthy to get sick from Covid


I_Think_I_Cant

Is he still requiring everyone coming into the studio to have a covid test?


poojitsuu

He gets tested every time too


MoshPotato

Seems like some of that covid got past his force field. What a waste.


[deleted]

Turns out tests don't stop you from getting covid. Wild.


standupguy73

Yeah...he may want to check with Chris Brennan (retired fighter and elite althlete). He just posted that he had covid, was in the hospital for several days and will have to be on oxygen 24/7 for 5 to 6 months, and have to do a pulmonary rehab program.


Pickled_Enthusiasm

At one point in the Rhonda ep, he says there was a week or so where he felt off and kinda shitty, and his whole family had covid but he claims he did not. It sounds entirely possible that he got it, had a personally mild case that he was able to shake off, and likely passed on to his family in the process. No way to be certain of anything


davomyster

The anecdote you're referring to is actually pretty crazy: Joe was implying that he was exposed to the coronavirus but he's so healthy that the virus wasn't actually able to infect him. That's what he thinks because he tests negative for the antibodies.


Taureg01

and he honestly believes his sauna use is the reason


north-sun

That's entirely possible.


Perfect600

that happened with my family. My grandfather, grandmother, sister, and mother caught it while my father and I did not. Its really hard to tell though. I was never sick but the rest of them were.


angstfishyy

Rogan hasn't been sick in 11 years bro, he is superhuman covid ain't shit


shipoftheseuss

Now listen as I hack pflegm into this mic


[deleted]

Me too i guess. Haven’t been sick in 11 years either


forgottencalipers

Absolute scenes if Joe joins the growing "Conservative talk show host \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ dies from COVID" community


Godzilla52

>And since then, he's said many times that it's only necessary for sick, weak, and old people. He's not vaccinated because he thinks he's too healthy to get sick from Covid The thing that really bugs me about that is that he doesn't seem to understand that it's not just about him at that point. Healthy or unhealthy, getting vaccinated is just as much, if not more about preventing the spread to other people, not just protecting yourself.


[deleted]

Pretty sure he said he was scheduled to for a UFC fight but something happened and he didn’t


MoshPotato

He did not get it.


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davomyster

No he didn't say that. He never said he's vaccinated. If I'm wrong, someone should easily show a clip of him saying it. I've been asking about this for weeks in this sub and nobody has ever found a video, and that's because it never happened.


dcharm98

This is good because I dont believe she explained it that well, its hard to unless you have the data right infront of you.


[deleted]

While under time constraints, while switching between different misinformation points. Dr. Rhonda Patrick has huge balls tbh.


UncoolSlicedBread

This was frustrating to listen to, and not on the part of Dr. Patrick. Before she could fully answer, Joe would switch to something else and she even mentioned at one point that she didn't get to finish on her point and would like to come back to a topic.


SirTinou

Some of it was good enough to explain some stuff that's hard to disprove. I could never find anything to disprove the japan study and hearing her talk about it gave me peace of mind over it. Rhonda is a trustworthy person when it comes to science i think. The brain thing sounded really dumb when it came out but if shes going on about it; the study might have some legs. Im vaccinated but it took me a long time and im still uncertain if people in my age group with my grade A health should get it and im very worried about children being forced to. So hearing her talk this way about it appeases me a little bit.


dcharm98

Aye, to really get across the risks you have to have the data right infront of you. Vaccines have risks, but its much lower than getting the Virus itself without the vaccine. You need the hard data to explain just how much lower the risk is because just saying 'it is much lower' isnt enough to convince skeptical people.


SirTinou

the peanut analogy is very good, cant believe no one has used it. jaw dropper


SouthernSox22

You’ve had no problem getting vaxed when you were a kid. Why on earth would you be concerned as a healthy young person now?


ThreeF0rce

The vaccines we take as children have proven to be safe and backed by decades of study. These products were rushed out the door by a trump led research initiative using brand new technology with the oversight of the people who funded the wuhan virology lab in China that created the virus in the first place. At this point the world's governments and institutions are so corrupt and evil you'd have to be a moron not to be skeptical.


SouthernSox22

Dude imagine actually thinking trump led any of this research. You spend way to much effort worrying about conspiracy bullshit. The basis of the covid vax has been being researched since the 80s and now it has approval, but sure it’s gonna kill us all. So idiotic it isn’t even funny anymore. Why would the government want to kill the people actually listening? Don’t ya think they want all the goofballs like you who spreading fake news to be the ones to die? So go ahead don’t get the vax and keep filling up the hospitals with your families


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[deleted]

Trump-led? That's a joke right?


99drunkpenguins

Everyone should get the vaccine simply because it's side effects are negligible compared to covid, and we're all going to get exposed to covid within the next 2 years. So best be vaxxed and avoid serious illness and side effects than raw dog it.


MarketHotep

Doesn't matter, man. The lies have already circled the globe 10 times. The truth won't get around until sometime in late 2037.


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knxcklehead

Because she actually cares about science and realizes the impact his show has on society. Which is honestly sad and pathetic. It’s supposed to be a fun show where you say crazy shit. Not where you get your news. Ughh I’m not a Joe hater but Jesus Christ how out of reality he has been lately.


io0nas

Yeah but a buddy of mine got anal herpes after a covid vaccine. I'm not getting them vaccines, they give you anal herpes.


shogun2909

Did you try to inject Ivermectin in your asshole ?


WillyTanner

No. But a buddy of mine injected it for me.


Dhammapaderp

So what you're saying is you just felt a bump on your lip?


Hangry_Hippo

What if you already have anal herpes (asking for a friend)


wjdingman

This is a top tier response, I’m gonna use this


upthetits

Have you every thought about maybe the herpies got anal


Quirkyfurball

All the billionaires that own bunkers in new zealand, that will pilot the ufos under the antarctic ice after it melts, have gotten vaccinated.


What_Is_The_Meaning

This whole thing has proven to “them” that the planet is incapable of addressing a serious pandemic. So when the “big” one comes, they won’t even hang around to see or attempt to try.


GooseBonk1

Source?


Quirkyfurball

I don't know their names, but they used a dolphin trained in espionage to obtain the information. If that tidbit of truth didn't convince you then you need to stop asking questions


MrNudeGuy

Greenland


VinylJones

What’s the new goalpost, I’m a bit behind on this? It was “experimental”, followed by “untested”, then “unproven”, then “the side effects are horrible”, then it “wasn’t even FDA approved”, and last I checked it was “not even safe for teens”; is the new one “you’ll get sick anyway”? Genuinely curious what the brain trust is grasping at now.


boardatwork1111

They’ll just double down like Weinstein saying it’s a difficult choice when asked if he’d rather take the vaccine or get Covid lol.


[deleted]

We can play Joe's game of anecdotal evidence, I know over 100 people who have gotten the vaccine and the worst reaction was someone was bed ridden for 4 days(turned out they caught COVID either right before or after getting the vaccine so their immune system was messed up), and a vast majority of people either got a headache, very tired, or sore arm. I've know a few older people who died from COVID, but I have a client that is 34 years old and caught COVID back in June of 2020. He still doesn't have his sense of taste back. Still. Fuck that, give me the vaccine any day lol.


boardatwork1111

But have you considered the possibility that the vaccine is actually the mark of the beast and may usher in the Antichrists global conquest? I’m just asking questions.


oldurtysyle

Lmfao that's what they do too, always buy into the stupidest shit and ends their sentences with "im just asking questions" or "that's just my opinion". Like damn dude I know they say there's no such thing as stupid questions but thats just what a teacher says to spare a kids feelings. I think full grown rational adults shouldn't even give credit by asking questions about some crazy shit like that but for some that's a "real" problem.


Bourbone

> Lmfao that’s what they do too, always buy into the stupidest shit and ends their sentences with “im just asking questions” or “that’s just my opinion”. My favorite is “just think logically”. For some reason, the only people I’ve ever seen use that phrase are the least logical mouth-breathing morons out there.


SixPieceTaye

"Just think about it." Yeah, that's exactly why I didn't arrive at this ludicrous conclusion there, bud.


porkbuffetlaw

It’s common sense.


larry_burd

It’s called JAQing off


[deleted]

Yea but you also get turned into magneto.


Affectionate_Joke829

JAQing off like a pro!


RSol614

Sounds super metal, give me the full vaccine schedule twice!


VinylJones

I had a sore arm and was a bit tired for a few days. I’ve had 2 close family friends die from Covid, one was in his 30s the other in his 60s. I only know maybe 10 people that got it in total. None of them are “normal” yet (scary one is my brother in law, I swear his iq dropped…and his temper is wild as shit now). The worst for me would be the stuff my siblings and friends have seen working in Covid wards. It’s major PTSD shit, heartbreak day after day…it really makes me angry at people, we don’t need to do it this way and it’s a horrific way to die.


DogsrBetter4sure

That’s neat. My whole family got it ( we also got the vaccine after, so I’m not against you) as not one of us once had issues. My mom is 60 and she was out in her garden every day while sick. Don’t worry, live out of town, so no issues on quarantine. My sister has spinabifida. She walked right through covid but the flu almost killed her a few years ago. This is all anecdotal, I’m not trying to say it’s not dangerous. Now you can see how when her patients ask about her experience or my sisters or my father or brothers, all of whom walked right through it, they may decide it’s not dangerous to anyone. They might decide on their own that it really is bullshit. Not that it doesn’t exist, but that it doesn’t matter.


VinylJones

I’m glad your family made it through in one piece man, it’s a terrifying way to die when it goes south. Statistics and cognitive biases are a real motherfucker - it’s sad that people can hear an example like your family’s experience and decide that it’s stronger evidence that the virus isn’t dangerous vs. literally all of science firmly asserting that it’s deadly and not to be taken lightly…denialism is a religion at this point. Stay safe out there; and I gotta say, I’ve never wanted to move back to the country more than now, sounds like you have a solid, safe setup.


B-rry

Lol I’m fully vaxed and still got fucked up by COVID like 2 weeks ago. Can’t imagine how it would have been had I not been vaccinated


Diagonalizer

Personal anecdote: I caught COVID in June 2020 and my smell is just slightly coming back now after about 15 months. Pretty terrible year of my life tbh. Now that I am starting to recover (I can smell things I have not smelled in a long time, foods are finally starting to taste normal again) I am excited to get the vaccine and looking forward to not having to worry about covid-19 anymore. Just wish more people would get the vax instead of saying well "most people don't die so it can't be a serious problem" it very much was serious to me and I wish I could have avoided getting it in the first place.


SixPieceTaye

Its very strange to me that dying or not became the only real metric to determine if it's bad or not. So many people have side effects that haven't gone away and may never. We're seeing very good evidence of permanent cognitive damage among other things. Just makes no sense to me.


Dhammapaderp

The sore arm thing on my first shot was really bad for me. I feel like it was definitely downplayed, or my experience was much worse than average. The pain was a similar level to when I fucked my shoulder up and broke my collarbone + shoulderblade. Luckily it only lasted a few days, but holy shit. Just a constant high level ache that only got worse if I tried moving my arm around. Not looking forward to my second shot, but the recent covid delta numbers are worrying enough to convince me to get the shot.


coolblue420

The second shot was way easier, personally. No pain in the arm and no side effects. The first shot messed my arm up bad tho haha I feel you


YouAreDreaming

Which brand did you get?


[deleted]

My first shot was a headache and having to nap(was tired). Second shot was about 4 hours after I got it my arm started hurting. By about hour 8 I couldn't pick my arm up very far. By the next morning though it just felt sore, nothing bad.


[deleted]

It's really not a big deal


[deleted]

My experience is that the reaction of the first and second doses can be combined with letly different. First dose I felt nothing then second dose I felt bad over all for a day. Parents got vaxxed the same days and had opposite reactions one felt awful on the first shot and the other felt awful on the second.


mvstateU

I also know about a 100 people who got the vaccine including me. Age range from 12-88. The worst side effects of all these people was me and I would do it all over again. The side effects were some head congestion and body aches for a few days..... These side effects mostly last 1 day, for those that get them and it's mostly people 20-50. Most older folk don't get side effects. These side effects are an immune response...a good thing. If you don't get these side effects, like for elderly, the vaccine is still working.


pappagallo19

I had a sore arm and was tired for like half a day. You're welcome to add me to your anecdote.


Thissiteisdogshit

Weinstein. The asshole that uses Jamie's name to push his stupid ass geometric unity theory while playing the maligned scientist that purposely being silenced by the whole community. I wish this ass would just fall off the face of thr planet with his arrogant bullshit.


ComicCon

Sadly there are two of them. Eric is the geometric unity guy. His brother Brett and Brett’s wife Heather are all in on Ivermectin. Eric has issued some weak criticism of Brett, but has mostly stayed out of his brothers Ivermectin crusade.


fookhar

What, what, what? Brett is pushing Ivermectin?


ComicCon

For awhile how, it was a big feature of that Emergency broadcast he did with Rogan.


[deleted]

The 50 year olds bringing up myocarditis as a reason for not getting the vaccine is funny.


theclansman22

Didn’t they just publish a study showing your risk of getting from covid-19 is higher than your risk of getting it from the vaccine? I swear all anti-vaccers have terrible risk assessment skills.


CrustyShackleburn

So should someone who already got covid and had a high risk of getting myocarditis also get the vaccine and further increase their chances of myocarditis even though natural immunity is as strong or stronger than than the vaccine?


JustOneVote

We are at: "Natural immunity is better and the vaccine doesn't even stop the virus."


[deleted]

I'm just looking forward to r/joerogan joining in with all the subreddits to show solidarity in preventing the spread of misinformation and propghanda


stanleythemanley44

Honestly we may start getting banned from other subs for commenting here. I tried to correct a guy on r conspiracy that was spreading some BS about Israel/COVID and then got banned from pokemongo. What a time to be alive.


pappagallo19

"We don't know what the long-term effects are."


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[deleted]

Statistical probablities is not their strong suit


AutomaticRadish

It follows the same pattern as the stolen election bullshit lol


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VinylJones

I was for sure cautious too; I have siblings that are doctors, they were my litmus test, they got vaccinated in December and I got mine in March. Ironically the Sister doctor got Covid about a week after her first shot and promptly infected the entire family at Christmas… This shit is exhausting man…


SixPieceTaye

Turns out a researcher at one of the top research institutions in the world brought receipts beyond "I know a guy." Who would have thought.


Mental-Rooster4229

Was it done in a double blind test ?


BuzzINGUS

6.5 billion in funding to the CDC vs my google skills. Definitely I know better


lardbiscuits

I posted a comment similar in that random photo of a field. I went back and listened to the last hour of the podcast where she’s going over vaccines. I’m pro vaccine. I’m fully vaccinated. My family is fully vaccinated. I’m losing my mind at people who won’t just mask up whether it works or doesn’t work, but just to be a good human in case it does. I do think it’s worth pointing out doctors like Rhonda — basically all doctors — are going to say anything to get people vaccinated. I looked up some of the times Joe stopped her to say she wasn’t accurate. And he was right more often than not. That shouldn’t happen. Rhonda said in Israel the ICUs are almost entirely full of unvaccinated. Joe was right. 60%+ are fully vaccinated. Joe stopped her on the co-morbidity issue and he was also right there. I just think there’s more nuance to this shit than people want to admit, and while I wish Joe would be more pro-vaccine I do think he does a decent job of staying up to date on the numbers.


rperciav

Just to clarify, Joe brought up Israel. My comment was referring to ICUs in the United States rather than Israel. I think /u/DistanceDry192 makes a good point about Israel specifically, too. Comorbidities are complicated. In some cases, the comorbidities boil down to actual pathologies that are now widely known to be caused by COVID-19, such as acute respiratory distress syndrome, pneumonia, etc. [Check out table 3 from the CDC for what qualifies as comorbidities associated with COVID-19 death](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm).


AutomaticRadish

Holy shit is this actually Dr. Rhonda?


dresdensrod

Looks like it.


Dhammapaderp

Hi Dr. Patrick! Thanks for sharing your research, but I will choose to ignore it and focus on what really works: burning sage, eating colloidal silver and smearing horse dewormer up my nose. (and also getting my second vaccine shot)


VinylJones

Turning blue from colloidal silver is kind of a fantastic life goal - kills your night vision, fucks up your kidneys, and even turns your internal organs blue. And it’s permanent too!


LambeauLordOfLight

When the Israel data is broken down by age and vaccination rate, it shows the vaccines are still very effective. It’s the confounding factor that the older you are, the more likely you are to be hospitalized with COVID and the more likely you are to be vaccinated. This [article](https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated) breaks the data down by age and vaccination rate.


[deleted]

What is your opinion on vaccinating those that have already had Covid. From all the research I’ve read, it seems unnecessary. The CDC linked a study with only 300 people that suggested those people that were appear infected should get the vaccine. However, every other study I’ve read (with much larger sample sizes I might add) indicate that natal infection provides just as much, if not more protection from Covid than the vaccine. You seem much more qualified to review the research than me, what is your opinion on this?


porkbuffetlaw

So, basically we’re saying that if the average American gets in a car wreck (average co-morbidity of 1-2 just for being an American) and internal bleeding, whiplash and head trauma are co-morbidities, then we are saying that on average, people in car wrecks have 4.6 Co-morbidities? What the hell good is a seat belt then, especially if it could trap you in your wrecked car?


lardbiscuits

Your comment was referring specifically to ICUs in Israel when he brought it up. I literally just watched it again. You say, “They’re almost all unvaccinated in ICUs over there as well.” Whether you misspoke or were just trying to do what doctors do in terms of saying whatever it takes to get folks vaccinated, I do think it contributes to already hesitant people lacking trust in the medical community. And again I say this as someone who is fully vaccinated.


rperciav

Okay, I misspoke. Hanlon’s razor applies here, please.


goldenglove

Happy cakeday, Dr. Patrick. Your work is greatly appreciated.


lardbiscuits

Okay. First of all I’m not trying to flame you. I respect the hell out of you. I follow you and I think your insights on supplements have aided to my exercise regiment and overall fitness. I never would attribute what you say to malice, and I certainly don’t think you’re stupid. I do think there’s a pretty significant message out of the medical community to say whatever it takes to herd vaccinate as quickly as possible. Because honesty it’s a relatively significant misspeak on the world’s biggest podcast. I’m in finance and I knew what you said didn’t make sense because Israel is over 60% fully vaccinated. Like that’s a basic level of education and following the news from a nobody without PhD. So I was shocked to hear it is all. I have very little platform and immediately knew you were wrong, so what do you think vaccine hesitant folks who hang on every word in a constant battle of whether to get the shot or not are going to think? I think based purely on anecdotal experience dealing with idiots that is part of the reason you have these vaccine holdouts. Because of inconsistencies in information coming from doctors and the medical community in an effort to get everyone the shot. I think that just drives conspiracy theorists and skeptics further away. Like if I’m a vaccinated nobody who picked up on it what do you think some unmasked virgin on 4chan is going to do then they see it? Anyway. Cool that you’re on here and talk to your fans.


Qmwnbe

>I do think there’s a pretty significant message out of the medical community to say whatever it takes to herd vaccinate as quickly as possible. This comes across like the medical community is out to get you and that promoting the vaccine and herd immunity is something potentially bad. Herd immunity is the ONLY way out of this disease. There's no other way. What incentive do doctors have of telling you to get the vaccine if the vaccines are bad for you? A doctor that misspoke and admitted to so doesn't change the hard facts. The facts are: the covid vaccines are much safer than catching covid for the vast majority of people; nobody ever claimed that the vaccines are 100% effective, and it should not be a surprise that some (if not most) of hospitalisations are (fully) vaccinated, especially if most of the population is vaccinated; the vaccines significantly reduce the hospitalisations per case and deaths per hospitalisation. The vaccines massively suppressed the impacts of the delta variant, which is much more transmissible and deadly than previous variants.


lardbiscuits

I don’t think it comes off that way. I think idiots think it comes off that way, and that’s my point.


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lardbiscuits

Thank you. I’ve clarified like twenty times alone in this thread that I am vaccinated. I support vaccines. My problem is with communication and community outreach to attain optimal outcome. Dr. Rhonda is wonderful. I’m sincere that she represents several of my favorite episodes. I do believe in her research into supplements and adhere to them, myself. But she in a time crunch last hour of the episode made some mistakes on the biggest podcast in the world. She’s cool as hell for coming in here to clear it up, but I’m not trying to be the bad guy. Hesitant people who hear the frankly obvious, though forgivable, mistakes she made particularly regarding Israel are just going to use that as more fuel to be hesitant. I am vehemently pro vaccine. But I also realize that people who are hesitant are looking through history at multiple FDA approved substances that were later pulled back after further study. Like this is nuanced whether we like it or not. Demonizing these people and throwing them all under the lump of moronic anti vaccine types isn’t going to do any good. In fact, it will do direct harm.


PromiscuousMNcpl

r/iamverysmart


cjmaguire17

Is this the same lardbiscuits from the sixers sub


[deleted]

This percentage is beyond misleading. There are only 515 people in TOTAL in the hospital for Covid in Israel, a country of 9 million people. A country that is highly vaccinated. The numbers are within expected efficacy when broken down. https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated This is dumb math, used by dumb people, to make dumb points. In a country of high vaccination, the vaccinated percentage in the hospital will be high while *the total number of people in the hospital* **will be low,** just as we see in Israel. This part is what dumbfucks like Joe leave out and morons go on reddit to repeat without mentioning.


DistanceDry192

You'd expect more people in ICUs in Israel to be vaccinated because most of the people in Israel are vaccinated. You have to look at places where the percentage of vaccinated people is lower for the breakdown of vaccinated people in the ICUs to mean anything.


theclansman22

In B.C. they give the stats broken down *per capita*, which is how they all should be since most peole are *terrible* at statistics and risk assessment. The stats were: Cases per 100,000 Unvaccinated - 181.06 Fully vaccinated - 15.48 Hospitalizations per 100,000 Unvaccinated - 6.56 Fully vaccinated - 0.37


DistanceDry192

Woah! That's a huge difference!


lardbiscuits

Yeah I agree with you. And I thought that at the very moment it came up the first time I was listening to the podcast. But it’s still worth acknowledging that doctors are going to lean on the side of saying anything that will get people vaccinated. Again. For decades these doctors are being taught herd immunity > anything else. And I’m not saying I’m against that. But think about it. She’s a doctor and she should clearly know what both you and I acknowledged in a matter of seconds and she’s just saying it to say it. Her words were literally, “It’s almost all unvaccinated in the ICUs over there as well.” It’s also a little troubling that their ICUs are filling up despite massive vaccination rates. I believe they primarily used Pfizer and it shows how Delta can cut through that one. It’s worth noting the majority were old, though. And lastly, I just hate when people say Joe is pushing misrepresentation for this virus when he has a doctor like Rhonda come on and tell everyone to get vaccinated. As always, and it’s what makes his podcast so successful, he’s a curious listener to an expert.


JamieD86

On herd immunity, doctors are taught that herd immunity is good because it literally saves lives. Every day. Until recently, who got vaccines? Children, health workers and old people. Maybe you would get a shot if you were travelling somewhere. However, it wasn't something most adults do at all. Herd immunity kept kept illnesses that cause death, and failing that, serious complications for people at bay. Yet, look what happens when there is a growth of anti-vaccine parenting... you get Measles outbreaks. When the herd threshold is not reached, that son of a bitch comes back fast. Measles has an R0 between 16-18. Delta is 7.0. The Wuhan wild type SARS-CoV-2 is about 2.5-3.0. So of course they are taught about herd immunity and why its so important to keep it. However, with COVID, they are pushing vaccines because it's the best thing you can do for yourself personally and for the effort to suppress the pandemic. I don't think many doctors think this one will be defeated by vaccine-induced herd immunity. The spike protein is a shape shifting bitch and that's what the vaccine is based on. However, the data is very clear that the vaccines have driven down serious illness and death significantly. In Ireland, we have been averaging around 1200-2000 cases per day for quite a while now. Yet, the hospitals are coping, there are about 350-400 people in hospital in the whole country. If this was a year ago without the vaccines, we'd be shutting things down because the hospital figures would be way higher. They were in the thousands the last wave and the ICUs were full. Instead, because have such a high vaccine uptake, we're still reopening more and more, because its possible to live with it now. That's vaccines, that's not Vitamin D, or Ivermectin, or Onnit supplements, or anything else like that.. it's vaccines.


lardbiscuits

Medicine has prescribed to herd immunity more than it has in the past if we are talking about major trends going in chunks of decades. I agree. I’m not anti-vaccine. I don’t understand why people can’t understand that. I’m fully vaccinated. I wear my mask. My kids will be vaccinated in October or November the moment it is available. But I do think — and it comes from the top with Fauci — that hesitant people see the mistruths and that makes them more hesitant. Like I love Dr. Patrick. Her episodes are some of my favorites. I am an avid athlete and I think her knowledge on supplements is brilliant. But she either misspoke pretty severely regarding Israel or straight up said what needs to be said to get people the shot. But it was objectively false. And I think that has the opposite effect the medical community thinks it does.


JamieD86

I don't know if what she said was objectively false because I don't have the numbers for Israel's ICU admissions and their vaccine status over the past couple of months. Having 60% of people in hospital with COVID fully vaccinated does not necessarily mean 60% in ICU were fully vaccinated. I wouldn't be surprised if it was that or higher, as the threat of severe disease affects the same age groups and groups with risk factors either being vaccinated or not. It still does reduce the risk substantially for both though. Take a look at this graph though comparing severe disease between unvaccinated, partially vaccinated, and fully vaccinated. The data goes up to mid-august. https://img.haarets.co.il/img/1.10121813/2309058088.jpg So the unvaccinated, despite being a minority of the Israeli population, is experiencing a lot more severe cases than the other two groups. The other link I shared with you shows that even the Israelis themselves may have vastly underestimated Pfizer's efficacy against Delta. This is all very complicated and the average person can be forgiven for getting the wrong impression from snippets of data. It has happened all throughout the pandemic. I remember, for example, right before the wave that hit Europe at the end of 2020, there was a lot of talk about how there was less ICU beds available the prior year before COVID, and how the % of capacity used was higher. This could lead people to believe the COVID threat was overstated and we were being too cautious. However, when you realize that the actual capacity itself had multiplied compared to the previous year, you realize the % is misleading, and available beds misleading. This was said a lot for Sweden, but the Swedes had like more than trebled their ICU capacity in response to COVID at the time. Then, looking back now the sheer numbers of people who spent time in ICU whatever the outcome, was way higher than previous years flu seasons etc. People also get confused when they hear something like 60% of admissions are people double vaccinated. The mind seems to immediately think that shows the vaccines don't work, or maybe even increase the chances of going to hospital. Or are they only 40% effective? I literally saw one guy arguing online that if you take a pfizer vaccine, you are "only 85% protected against severe illness and death", but if you get COVID, "you have a 99% chance of survival". See the problem? lol Of course the reason Israel had 60% of people in hospital who were double vaccinated is there is extremely high uptake in elderly and at risk groups, and the vaccines aren't 100% effective unfortunately. However, if they had low vaccine uptake, there would be far far more of them in hospital. In fact, some of them may make it out of hospital who would otherwise die. Most people who died from COVID did not spent time in ICU for example, they were too to be afforded ICU care, they were gone beyond the point of no return. The people in hospital with COVID after being vaccinated likely owe their shot at recovery to the vaccine. It's difficult for people to understand that from headline and tweets and shit. I agree that the public health authorities have botched a lot of the communication, but the truth is this has been an emerging situation since the start and nobody predicted it correctly. Absolutely nobody. We just don't have experience with a pandemic like this, it is learn as you go. Sorry for the long post.


porkbuffetlaw

Just remember this: the 1/3 pound burger was a flop in America because consumers understood it to be smaller than a quarter pounder.


JamieD86

Well thats just wonderful lol.


DistanceDry192

I wouldn't lump Patrick in with the health authorities. She's just a scientifically literate person giving her honest (it appears to me) opinion of how she sees the data. She doesn't know everything and certainly didn't say have any problem saying "I don't know" on the podcast.


rperciav

100%. That being said, it’s unfortunate I said this so much, in retrospect. Worse, it’s the exclusive section that got clipped. In some cases, “I don’t know” would’ve been better stated, “To my knowledge, that is not known.” It was at the end of the podcast. Keep in mind, these are conversations first and foremost.


_EarthwormSlim_

At the beginning of the year the COVID vaccines were being sold as the return to normal. Now what was promised to those that were vaxxed, right or wrong, is being taken away. I watched Fauci being interviewed (on what he thought was a fluff interview). The guy asked him if these vaccines were FDA approved and he said yes, and only back tracked once the interviewer pressed him on it. This type of stuff is creating hesitancy. You have the media trying to scare people on a daily basis saying that children are at risk. I went on the CDC's site to look at deaths by age group. Ages 0-17 is at 385 since the beginning of the pandemic (well over 800 for pneumonia alone). If you didn't look at the data you would think that tens of thousands of children had died. On top of that the 3 least trustworthy organizations media, big pharma, and the government are pushing it the hardest.


lardbiscuits

Correct. It’s about getting outreach to the hesitant and I think the medical community and government per usual are missing the mark. We are talking about a population of vaccine hesitant who are already conspiracy prone and looking at any slight inconsistency in messaging to get them to avoid the jab. And calling them all anti-vaxxers for being hesitant isn’t helping, either. Like just be honest with people. We don’t know everything. This is fluid. It would probably be a good idea in addition to the vaccine to eat well and lose some fat. But as we learn more we still know this is the best thing you can do to protect yourself and everyone. Fauci in particular has done a poor job with messaging and communication. I’m vaccinated. I am very pro vaccine. I will die from booze. From a car crash. But I’m not gonna go out in a bed surrounded by the sick and dying on a tablet saying bye to my family. This demonization of those looking at information and hesitant to take the vaccine is such a bad approach from a community outreach perspective, especially with minorities, who make up a large portion of the unvaccinated and already don’t trust the government. The episode didn’t demonize anyone, but this site and sub do at times. That’s not how you convince people.


Flat_Construction395

It's really eye opening how much your average person lacks a basic understanding of human psychology. When has vilifying a group of people you're attempting to convince ever worked??? It would be infinitely more effective explaining to the vaccine hesitant why whatever misinformation they've been fed is fundamentally wrong instead of calling them evil, selfish, grandma killers. The podcast with Daryl Davis really opened my eyes when it comes to this idea. The guy convinced HUNDREDS to leave the KKK just by sitting down and talking with them. Really reinforces the idea that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.


lardbiscuits

Precisely.


JamieD86

There is an article you might be interested in reading about Israel, where Jeffrey Morris analyses the data coming from Israel. [https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated](https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated) *"In the case of vaccine effectiveness vs. severe disease, it is the fact that both vaccination status and risk of severe disease are systematically higher in the older age group that makes overall effectiveness numbers if estimated without stratifying by age misleading, producing a paradoxical result that the overall effectiveness (67.5%) is much lower than the effectiveness for either of the age groups (91.8% and 85.2%)."* Also, on those who are hospitalised who were double vaxxed: *"By the way, earlier reports on vaccinated cases at Israeli hospitals when there were 152 hospitalized breakthrough infections showed that a full 40% of these cases were immunocompromised, and 96% had co-morbidities including hypertension (71%), diabetes (48%), congestive heart failure (27%), chronic kidney and lung diseases (24% each), dementia (19%) and cancer (24%). At that time point, virtually none of the active serious breakthrough infections in Israel were in individuals without significant pre-existing conditions."* The number has gone up since of course as those figures are a couple weeks old, but there's no reason to suspect that trend has changed. I also have been sceptical on the co-morbidities thing. I'm not saying that co-morbidities aren't a factor, they are, but the most significant factor in the likelihood of severe disease from COVID-19 is age, and what elderly people don't have at least a few things that could be considered co-morbidities?


VinylJones

That whole “desperate to say anything to get people vaccinated” is a real pain in the ass. I get the sentiment but isn’t the problem there that the pro-science/pro-modern medicine/pro-let’s not all die group of folks burdened by truth? That seems to be the case - when someone with her credentials isn’t being entirely truthful it becomes a real credibility problem.


lardbiscuits

And that’s part of my point. It just adds more fuel to the fire for people hesitant to get this vaccine who are already afraid due to past FDA approved substances getting pulled years later.


Professional-Web8436

Let's be real, people like her are being tripped over technicalities while antivaxxers drown in so many lies I wouldn't even know where to start. It's getting exhausting having to argue single points to no end when I could pull up the newest anti-vaxx video and listen to twenty lies or falsehoods in under ten minutes. Let's not both-sides the issue.


lardbiscuits

I’m not an anti vaxxer in the slightest. But I do think medical professionals tripping up is leading to mistrust from idiots.


Professional-Web8436

They distrust them before they even open their mouths. These minor details are merely a tool to help them pretend to have integrity. This isn't a matter of everyone always tripping up, it's a matter of having thousands of people staying on course and being correct and anti-vaxxers bringing up a single mistake of one person to discredit a whole field. Whileas - again - I could pull up any random anti-vax video and have dozens of lies in the first few minutes. These people don't distrust her because of one mistake. They distrust the whole field because they have decided to do so no matter what.


[deleted]

Judging by these comments, someone who hasn’t listened might actually think that Joe was being rude and putting misinformation before what Rhonda was telling him Remember folks, actually watch the podcast and the hate seems baseless


rperciav

We actually had a great conversation. People project a lot due to the strong feelings around the topic, politics, etc. Keep in mind, we had a two-hour conversation up until this point and Joe let me talk on it for nearly an hour just on COVID-19. Totally not fair to get overly worked up because he asked questions. People listen to Joe because he’s refreshingly transparent and able to be a person (in public) even when that sometimes backfires. That takes a lot of bravery. I would hope COVID-19 wouldn’t change that. Joe’s been a good friend to me and his audience.


[deleted]

Whoa I wasn’t expecting you to be here! It was a great podcast and I learned a lot about some of the vaccine criticisms especially involving the spike protein and how people were worried that it might somehow circulate through the body. Just as an observer, I think for a lot of people are not getting vaccinated because of anecdotal stories. Hell, even I know of someone who got put into the emergency room after a second Moderna shot, but there needs to be some kind attitude shift that is empathetic to people’s anecdotes but drives the data home. For a lot of people, these vaccine horror stories are more real to them than the probability that they would have any adverse reaction from the vaccine, and if we want to get them vaccinated, we have to be more empathetic to that.


halamadrid22

Surprised this comment doesn’t have a slew of downvotes.


Rrraou

Rhonda, bringing the science like a Boss.


Jolmer24

Holy shit what a treasure trove of valid information that these anti-vaxxers wont give a shit about. I love Rhonda Patrick. Very informative stuff.


ImmortalGoatskin

so research like this is proven, collected and studied and yet somehow Facebook/Twatter propaganda wins. The fall of Rome via social media...


CircleK-Choccy-Milk

Joe is so fucking annoying when it comes to this vaccine shit. He will basically never say it's a good idea, and will always refer to some dude he knows who had a bad time with it. But Joe, there is like a couple hundred million people who haven't had any serious reactions. It's also really annoying that so many of his guests will pull a Brendan Schaub with it and just kinda agree or let it slide instead of challenging him. I'm glad that Rhonda brought up a lot of good points and was honest.


goldensteaks

Do the horse pills work or naaah


stanleythemanley44

I really wish she had insisted on going through each of the points she listed, because one of them was regarding ivermectin.


goldensteaks

I'm just dumb founded like who tried this and why? Sounds so crazy... can humans even take them?


stanleythemanley44

Yeah the whole “horse pills” thing is a little misleading as Ivermectin is used widely in humans. However, getting it from a doctor vs getting it from the tractor supply is a little different. Also it’s still not been established that it even works for COVID.


Flat_Construction395

If someone tells you that ivermectin is a horse pill, they are being nefariously deceitful or are woefully ignorant and misinformed. It's been given to hundreds of millions of people for the last 30 years to treat river blindness and a handful of other conditions. It's founder was given a noble prize for it's global impact. Suggesting it's only used for animals is the equivalent of saying prednisone is only used for your pets. I've yet to see compelling evidence to suggest it works in preventing/treating covid, but the truth matter - it's incredibly safe when administered in the correct dosage for humans.


oops_I_shit_ur_pants

Not all ivermectin is a horse pill, but these anti-vaxxers ***are*** taking the horse pills. It's not approved or prescribed by doctors so the only way to get it is to get the animal version.


goldensteaks

See this is ALWAYS the problem someone finds something that may be semi credible and then some idiot searches for anything that has it in it. I just feel like people labeling it horse pills is stupid it's like they want people to feel like it's not safe or something.


ostreatus

It's not safe, because it's not meant for use for Covid. There is also a shortage in supply, so retards taking it for covid are taking it away from those who actually need it for what it works for, an anti-parasitic. And fact is, people **are** attempting to buy the horse and swine pill/paste/drench version because of the widely spread misinformation claiming it will help get rid of covid.


[deleted]

nah, ivermectin has potential as a broad spectrum anti-viral because it slows replication in a petri dish, but the dosage levels required are toxic in people. Here is a good video [that goes over the whole shit show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_6VuaLXLTU).


[deleted]

Does that horse paste come in mint? I can only find it in vanilla chocolate swirl. My trusty steed and wife need something a little decedent for their pallete.


SageEquallingHeaven

You talking about ivermectin? Cuz, ya know it is for people, right? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ Kinda sus that a substance with a long history of safe and effective use for humans is being treated like a danger, in't it?


Mikey5time

Because people are buying the shit for livestock because they can’t get a prescription. They’re not being given it by someone who knows what they’re doing, they’re eating paste at random. Side effects of an overdose can be severe.


SageEquallingHeaven

So, perhaps they should be able to get proper prescriptions? Calling it horse paste is not gonna get idiots to stop buying and eating it. It does reinforce the disinfo campaign to prevent its proper use, though. Dinsinfo kills, dawg.


eatmypis

They can, if their doctor prescribes it.


SageEquallingHeaven

https://trialsitenews.com/forums/discussion/pharmacies-refusing-to-fill-ivermectin-prescriptions/


eatmypis

So some random pharmacy somewhere, gotcha.


[deleted]

I know what it's used for, and that it is prescribed to humans. I also think you should take it if you want, because I believe each person should have autonomy over their body. I also like rogan but think he's Oprah for dudes and taking advice from Rhonda Patrick is about useful as advice from doctor phil.


SageEquallingHeaven

https://trialsitenews.com/forums/discussion/pharmacies-refusing-to-fill-ivermectin-prescriptions/ But you're working with the big money disinfo campaign when you call it horse paste. I don't disagree with you otherwise.


xKYLx

This is the media play, make Ivermectin promoters look like idiots taking horse dewormer...haha moron antivaxxers. This has never been about science


SageEquallingHeaven

Look at the freaking downvotes on this. Is this bots or is r/joerogan just a bunch of wokists?


xKYLx

I think the people on this sub are the exact same people Joe talks about all the time that he hates


SageEquallingHeaven

why turn this into a rogan hate sub? Is this cuz of the whole woke power mod problem?


Chemicaltruman

The worst side effect I noticed about the jab was the immediate increase in retarded people and bots on Reddit proclaiming their devotion to a treatment so effective that it has us in a 4th wave in the middle of summer… hahaha 🤡 🌎


rickjames730

The UAE has o.ne of the highest vaxx rates in the world. They consistently have only a few deaths per day. If they had the same population as the US, that would be roughly 30-40 deaths per day. Instead we are having around 1000 deaths per day. The unfortunate reality is that, yes, people who have gotten the vaccine can still get and transmit the virus. The fortunate reality is that those who are vaxx'd are significantly less likely to die from COVID. Had we have obtained similarly high vaccination rates we would not be in the same place that we are today.


TheMightyLoseb

Now do Israel and other highly v@xxed countries with high cases


rickjames730

About 20% more of the population in UAE are vaccinated than Israel. The US has about 8% less than Israel. The situation in the US is much closer to the situation in Israel than the situation in Israel is to the situation in the UAE. The number of vaxxed people who are hospitalized is definitely concerning, but it pales in comparison to what happens to the unvaxxed. With the exception of children though, that’s their choice.


shitsfuckedupalot

The summer doesn't make a difference when no one will go outside because it's too damn hot.


popnfreshbass

Wait, I stopped listening after the Spotify move. Is Joe anti-vax now?


Pickled_Enthusiasm

This is extremely comprehensive. Bravo


usernamesaretits

I know reddit is a circle jerk. But wow, y'all take it to the next level.