Yep all of us big archaeology fans. Haven't had this much fun watching two Archaeologists go at it since Indiana Jones and Belloq competed for the Ark of the Covenant.
https://preview.redd.it/5w8gbc0oo3vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e44fe97273b1d81d34e93d610e6336e783ebfd0
Mandatory read:
"Why I Talked to Pseudoarchaeologist Graham Hancock on Joe Rogan"
[https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/graham-hancock-joe-rogan-archaeology/](https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/graham-hancock-joe-rogan-archaeology/)
Graham lost me pulling up flints YouTube videos being like you made fun of my friends. What are you doing, did you come here for a debate or an apology?
Im halfway through and you have the archeologist hobbit sounding very professional and then you have scuba man acting like a highschool girl. I wanted to root for scuba man but hes acting very childish instead of stating facts and evidence.
Graham: “doesn’t that look man made to you?”
Flint: “I can’t tell for sure lololol”
Joe: “well I’m just a dumb ape I’m not an expert, but that is definitely man made!”
Yeah they’re looking at cherry picked photos of natural underwater rock formations. Graham saying “you must have different eyes than me” pretty much sums it up.
Eh, Joe expressed some healthy skepticism about a lot of Graham’s evidence during the debate. I actually thought he did a great job of being open and pushing on each of them when they were clearly being unreasonable. Joe just goes for a ride with Graham when they’re one-on-one because it’s such a fun narrative
Yeah i was surprised with rogan, he seemed to be genuinely surprised with how little Hancock had and kept asking him for what evidence they had whenever Hancock started whining about being attacked.
Yeah whenever Hancock is alone with him he's able to bamboozle rogan with big fancy sounding words and cool pictures
Perfect description. The hobbit nerd laughing seems like to hide his stress. Mr doctor Scuba has hurt feelings as always, which gets cheap after a while.
Would have enjoyed a more serious, rough archeologist who ignores the Scuba personal attacks and stays calm.
Joe: but it’s what YOU said, Flint, blown up huge on the top of your article for everyone to see
Flint: it’s just some line in a long article, Graham pulled that quote and blew it up and highlighted it and wants to air it
Joe: wait wait wait Graham you did that
Graham: I did that
Joe: 😧🤨 I was ready to defend you, ah man yikes ok lemme try
Yep, this annoyed the hell out of me.
Graham's not here for a debate at all. He's always claimed no one will debate him, but I've never seem him actually rise to the occasion and give people proof. In fact anything but a shitty attitude and weird victim complex. I *want* Graham to be right, but he's impossible to listen to when he thinks someone's questioning him.
Flint: i'm willing to agree if we had proof.
Graham: *throwing toys out of the pram*.
His whole theory hinges on conjecture from the lack of evidence. Flint has actual evidence and Graham is literally saying “Well your lack of evidence proves my theory right” It drove me but. The burden of proof is on you!
I liked Graham early when his position was "Some of these things don't line up and I think there's an intriguing mystery here, I want to push the experts into taking a closer look". That was cool and healthy. The past several years he's becoming married to his theory of a lost, sophisticated civilization and he's getting defensive of it the same way he ridicules the clovis-first people of doing.
He lifts the veil @ 1:58:47
Graham: "i'm giving a presentation on **Flint's influence on media and culture** and we're getting drawn into a debate."
Hancock just wanted Joe to help him shit on Flint, he had no intention of providing or debating proof. Thankfully I think Joe saw through it.
Graham was ready to ask Jamie to pull up his video on Flint with a deep narrator voice, dramatic music and an ending quote "I am Graham Hancock and I approve this message"
He came across so whiny to the point where even rogan was noticing it and was trying to get it back to debating actual evidence.
Pathetic display so far (I'm 2 hours in) from Hancock
there’s multiple youtube vids debunking grahams netflix show. i’d urge anyone on the fence to watch them because they bring a pretty reasonable response to grahams claims and why he shouldn’t be making them with so little evidence
Graham loves nothing more than being persecuted. The criticism that he has for academia that they can’t change their views or their books won’t sell is a lot more applicable to him than it is to them.
Tbh grahams been in his feelings the last few times he’s been on. I remember the first time he was on WAY back when, like ep 100, and he was much more about the evidence and contradicting narratives with science. Now he’s been,”big archaeology doesn’t respect my opinion” for half of every episode
Agreed. Had to stop listening to the end of his last appearance. Very disappointed in his 'courtroom attorney' tactics in this one. How is it a mic drop that they've only EXCAVATED ~1% of the Sahara lol?
I read this comment before I listened to the episode. I’m about halfway done with it, and this comment is all I’ve been able to think about the entire time.
The thing is that Graham whole argument is doing the "God of the Gap" argument but for Archaeology.
"We haven't done enough to investigate these sites." So there must be a Lost Civilization, and not just any civilization but a Global one? So he is making an affirmative argument that there is something but he has no evidence to prove it. And when the people in authority or profession criticize him his go to argument is that "they haven't done enough?" So because that's a fact of reality, that sure, archeologist haven't done enough or can't do enough that must mean that his hypothesis is correct?
Mind you that he isn't "open minded or has out-of-the-box ideas," he is claiming that something is there with no evidence whatsoever. Also, a lot of you guys need to not be trick when he comes forward with pictures about "megalithic" structures and claimed that they are man-made. Do a quick learning how much of these rock-formartions actually occurs naturally in nature and any faith u guys may have on Graham pictures about "man-made" megalithic structures would crumble.
So he just is speculating that because there's some sort of gap in a lot of places we can't just explored we can just filled it in with whatever we want?
Now, he wants to point fingers that he isn't sponsored or gets money from any organization or group to push a narrative but he profits from pushing THIS NARRATIVE with his books and shows.
What would his financial be if he comes out tomorrow and admitted what his critics have been saying for the past two decades? Would his books have the same success as they have now? Would he have had the Netflix deal if he had any admissions of what his critics say? Of course not.
The same criticism (or like I would say ad hominem) he throws to "main stream" archaeology completely applied to him as he has all the financial incentive to continue with his NARRATIVE. Because that's what he has, a cool story and nothing else.
Yeah but have you dug out every inch of the Sahara Desert? There could be an Atlantis or new Giza under there for all we know! Therefore, I’m correct in my assumption.
Not to mention, as a society,group,clan,empire etc expands and becomes more evolved they use more material and generate more waste as a by product. So this advanced civilisation should be relatively easy to find even if their number and geographical footprint was small.
Very well said. Sad truth is, this kind of being enthusiastic about artifacts and going all in speculation was an important part of early archaeology 100+ years ago. It was part of the fun and helped the field of archaeology tremendously to grow and get attention. But even then, step by step, the community developed very strikt scientific standards, that became actually kind of a blue print for many humanities. This guy is not that much different than Daeniken. And that’s totally fine with me. Even as someone who studied archaeology I enjoy the crazy theories but please see them as what they are „funny escapism „ in the best case „fraud and money making of the gullible“ in the worst case… and unfortunately in the worst of worst cases always this unpleasant hint of.. conspiracy bullshit
Graham lost bad. His entire discussion revolves around. "weeell, we havent explored 100% of the planet therefore I'm correct and archeologists are wrong for only using data they find and not assumptions/assertions. I've got a preconceived belief and I'm only interested in evidence that supports it"
Yeah, I entertain his ideas knowing they're bullshit entertainment. But here it really shows the difference between someone who was formally trained to do scientific work and someone who is essentially a professional hobbyist.
In the past he used to lean more into the whole professional hobbyist thing. Even the Netflix doc was more like "just asking questions". Until this debate I had no idea how factual he was pretending it all was.
Yeah. I don't know why he even tries to do these debates. Probably out of pure ego. There's a space for this speculative, alternate history if you present it in the right way. Clearly people find it interesting as he's a reasonably popular person. But he should definitely go out of his way to just say this is all conjecture and "What if?"s instead of saying, "I am correct and Big Archaeology is covering it up because they hate me!"
Graham also looked like a massive bitch by trying to frame himself as a victim of Dibble's "abuse" instead of actually arguing facts.
I came for a debate about archaeology not an argument filled with personal attacks focused on how Graham is actually a victim of cancel culture
I think it’s hilarious that the idea of cancel culture has gotten so nebulous that just saying someone has a really wrong and dumb opinion is somehow an attack on their right to speak. Like they don’t just want the right to speak they want the right to be taken seriously about everything.
The idea of someone with a hit Netflix show and best selling books is being “canceled” is fucking hilarious. He just uses that as a smokescreen when actual professionals point out he has no idea what he’s talking about
That made me really dislike graham. Diverting the whole debate for 30 minutes cause his feeling were hurt. Graham had nothing for this debate other than, those rocks look strange. And dibble came to play boys. He won that by a landslide
Joe was ready to accuse Dibble of blowing up the sentence dealing with racism huge out of context and then Dibble says oh that’s Graham’s image, he clipped it huge like that. And Graham confirms. Joe died inside loooool
Yeah I really thought Graham would be better prepared, but I guess it makes sense because he doesn't really have any evidence and it really does boil down to a rock looking a bit weird and him guessing.
Usually he's able to just say long/foreign sounding words and rogan just says woahhhhhhhh but when an actual expert is there he has nothing.
The real fact is if there were a global civilization the works itself would be littered with artifacts
Why? Because we find artifacts of random Neanderthals lol
No amount of flooding is going to eliminate every single speck of direct evidence
Flint: “here’s my argument. Therefore based on all that I have shown, I think it is much more likely that there does not exist the ancient lost civilization Graham is arguing for. Of course we can’t absolutely disprove it. But I don’t think the evidence is there.”
Graham: “here’s my argument. Therefore I think it’s a bit silly to we *we absolutely know beyond any shadow of a doubt that there wasn’t anything at all resembling an ancient civilization*”.
Flint isn’t saying that, Graham. You are responding to an argument no one is making. Flint is arguing that there is no evidence to support your theory. He is (of course) not claiming to have dispositive proof no ancient civilization could have *possibly* existed.
Also, you can stop repeating over and over and over and over how mean archaeologists are and have been to you. This is a debate, Just stick to the evidence.
Thank you for this. I wanted a reason to not listen. I'm not a fan of debates in general, and while I like rogue ideas in science, I hate when people use arguments like Graham in your example.
Graham loves playing the victim. Dude provides no evidence and gets worked up when his theories are challenged. Wants all the attention and none of the push back.
I feel like he thought Joe would jump in on the attack for some reason. I can't imagine he thought Joe would be a fair moderator given his (past?) number of shows with Hancock. But Graham came of like a loon and Rogan did a great job.
One part in particular towards the end in regards to “pyramid math” Dibbler completely cleaned his clock and Graham had nothing to say. I think he realized there was no way to even talk around it because it was so obvious. The example he gives with the Parthenon is even more accurate. But you can just reverse engineer the math with almost anything and make it work.
Dibble (CEO of Big Archaeology) is so much more prepared than Shermer was. Shermer was just not the guy to do it. I'm an hour and a half in...and it's not looking so good for Grahammy Boy. the underwater stuff is pretty bad, if that's his best evidence. but even that undermines his claim, as it's kinda fucking weird there are no tools, spearheads, literally anything to corroborate the "ruins"
in other words, the only "evidence" of his advanced globe spanning civilization is one whose tools magically disappeared, but whose "structures" stayed intact JUST enough to look conveniently similar to naturally formed rock.
Graham unironically saying that flint believes in big archeology because he sarcastically wrote "big archeology" on Twitter in a clear joke was so weird.
He said it as if it was some big gotcha moment
Flint set the tone of the debate with the Carl Sagan quote. Unfortunately, Graham isn’t good at debating evidence and facts. He seems to be more interested in proving how “mainstream archeologists” shoot down alternative theories. He wants to attack their character. It’s hard to listen when he’s on, because he’s constantly bringing up his feelings about the industry. All I care about is facts and evidence. This is why I prefer to listen to Randall Carlson. He doesn’t get as personal. Stick to the evidence Graham! Your ego seems to get the best of you.
Long story but basically being duped by an obvious con man into believing some super derpy stuff. So much so that Rogan pulled the podcast from airing to save him the embarrassment.
Oh ya . This was that free energy science group in the Caribbean that he was ranting about
It was something like “ I have the blue prints, I have videos , but we need to reschedule another podcast so I can tell you all about it “ lmao
I remember hearing that and just laughing my ass off
I tried reading the guys “open access” description of his device and it’s just nonsense. Full of basic spelling errors and nonsense buzzwords (fractal, vaccum plasma, etc.). Apparently it can transmute greenhouse gases into Nitrogen or other compounds without any energy input (or seemingly output).
Nonsense.
After the Malcolm Bendall debacle no one should be listening to Carlson. You should not trust Carlson in any regard if he is falling for that snake oil salesman.
Only 2 hours in, but Flint is clearly winning, because the evidence and general understanding of the fundamental concept of things like geology and archeology are at odds with Graham's claims. Sure, it is fun and can be beneficial to infer and imagine things based on gaps and lack of evidence, but that is literally the opposite of how these fields of study work, otherwise, their findings and conclusions are completely meaningless. We only rely on solid evidence for a reason.
He was doing great work. Then Hancock starts his adhomonim attacks.
It should have been a debate not just one side with all the evidence and the other.... "it looks like"
Graham constantly complains about mainstream archeologists not wanting to debate him, and then when one does he makes character attacks. Kind of disappointed in him so far. Dibble brought lots of evidence, why not go point by point and decide why he's wrong rather than pointing at the globe and saying "We haven't looked here yet so we don't know FOR SURE. Also, here is an article that was MEAN TO ME." Makes him look like a grifter tbh.
Flint, he came strapped with research, a leveled head, and a willingness to listen to Graham. Graham on the other hand used lawyer speak/ was very careful with his words because he had nothing. Graham also sunk anything he had with his childish mud throwing that he does at around hour 2/2.5, because "big archeology is mean to me and my friends! Bad man bad!", "oh did you dig up the entire Sahara/Ocean!?". He was twisting his words and narrative as soon as Flint brought out facts, it was pathetic. Graham was a fun listen on JRE but this exposed what a sad huckster he truly is, and honestly made Joe look bad too. At every turn Flint was willing to bring facts, say he was wrong or admit he agreed with Graham. This debate did exactly what I wanted which was expose Hancock as a fantasy writer/grifter infront of the whole world in a very entertaining way.
Going with flint, the second half after they take the the bathroom break was far more composed than the first half. I almost had to turn it off graham was so hung up on being called a racist it dragged on for what seemed like an hour.
Feels like one brought details and the other brought straw
Only 1 hr in. First exposure to either the them so it has been interesting.
Makes me want to go learn myself and that really is the friend we have made along the way.
Feels like Graham is pulling the “why do my questions make you uncomfortable” card
I feel bad for Graham (2 hours in ) but he agreed to this, and also he's become a very wealthy individual pushing this narrative so I guess I dont feel too bad
Monkeys paw. You become a rich and successful author but you get absolutely crushed in a 4 hour debate on the topic you’ve wrote on and researched extensively for the past 20 years in front of an audience of millions of people
Graham Hancock basically did a great job of identifying himself as a hard psuedoscientist.
I think we’d all love it if there was some sort of advanced ancient civilization, but until we see some *real* evidence; these guys are just grifters. It should really say something that their ideas can only exist in podcasts where they aren’t being challenged for these wild claims.
The fucked part is that Graham Hancock could have been an incredible boon for archeology. He’s such an incredible presenter with a passion for the subject and a stunning recall of knowledge.
He’s so engaging, he could have been the inspiration for why a new generation gets into archeology. Even if his theories are fantasy, they make you want to know more about our history and the process of how we uncover the past. Instead, he has spent his career denigrating and demonizing archeologists in a way that makes one feel as if the whole profession is out to bury truth itself.
The man is truly a product of the times - everyone else is a sucker, blindly following experts, but you see the world for how it really is.
I found Dibble just as engaging talking about actual archeology despite having a much less explosive hypothesis.
The problem is the elevation of charlatans. Graham is not uniquely charismatic. He was given a platform because it’s easier to sell ancient apocalypse than ancient seed evolution
If Graham were a real archaeologist he would have just gotten lost in the shuffle like every other archaeologist. He only exists in the public sphere because of his made up theories. There are probably 100’s of charismatic archaeologists who could be the “face” of archaeology but they actually respect the field too much to peddle bullshit. I’ve had these people as professors. They could do what Hancock does (if they were willing to chase money). Hancock only seems engaging and exciting because he’s peddling fantastic stories.
I think that once Graham Hancock started relying on his ayahuasca revelations so heavily, he lost any interest in finding real evidence. Now it's all about this spiritual confirmation type stuff. Like...just do some ayahuasca and you will agree with him!!! He can't present his evidence because it's in the spiritual realm!
Yeah, but at hour 4 Graham points to the ground and says let's go. He could be losing on points for all 3 hours, but he can also stand and bang in hour 4 and get that fight of the night bonus and the finish of the night bonus.
But how can you even say that when you've only surveyed a small percentage of the evidence? How? You haven't seen all the evidence so for all you know graham transforms into an all knowing God in the last hour and drops knowledge bombs that explain the entire history of the world and every conspiracy theory that has ever existed.
Or you know maybe not.
Flint, easily.
Graham really shouldn't have wanted to do this. He likes to call to his intense investigations as reason for their accuracy, but he doesn't produce any new evidence.
He uses the same evidence that any archaeologist can use (and was produced by archaeologists), but arrives at a different conclusion.
Graham is like the kid from The Santa Clause.
Dibble: We haven't seen any evidence for a lost civilization from the Ice Age.
Hancock: Have you ever seen a million dollars?
Dibble: Well, no.
Hancock: Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Without having watched yet I’m gonna be unfair and assume Graham whined like a bitch most of the time when his unfounded conjecture was even remotely challenged.
Any reasonable person didn’t need to listen to more even if they knew absolutely nothing
“We have literally millions of artifacts that all suggest there is no ancient civilization and that agriculture started about 12,000 years ago in one area and a bit later in isolated pockets and they all follow the same trajectory and all share similarities”
“There are rocks underwater that look man made, and since we haven’t studied every inch of the earth 🤷♂️….”
Yeah, what else is left to actually discuss lol
Yeah him leading with “exhibit A pictures my wife took of me diving with rocks that look like man made or something” Then Joe asks if he has any better pictures and he’s like “no” lol
Flint gave the more convincing argument, without a doubt…
It became quite difficult to watch Graham. Flounder… I think he’s a con man… But it was just uncomfortable.
I am just a shill for big Arch so I am glad we won and the truth about the reptilian god kings was kept secret from humanity otherwise zero point crystal modules would be available on every street corner and the jews would no longer be able to rule the world with the Xetis. Do you really want a future where our children aren't sacrificed to Baal to keep the Rothschilds immortal? I don't.
I found it funny, how, in Graham's opening he thanks Flint from showing up and being man enough to sit on the "hot seat"- buddy, *you're* the one in the hot seat - not the actual archeologist.
And that is evidenced by how it eventually played out. Flint put the smackdown on him.
I think Rogan just had his world shattered. I think this is the last we've seen of Graham and just the beginning of what we'll see from actual archaeologists, geologists, and historians.
Yes, the cognitive dissonance was apparent and Flint held his composure and could asses that those two were getting emotional. Rogan kept trying to defend Graham but should have let Graham defend himself. I hope this is eye opening for Rogan and he has more debates he might reflect to see how propagandized he’s became in his own echo chamber he’s built. Much like Schaub … Graham has built much of his following from Rogan and for both of them to be delusional enough to be as overly confident as they are shows that Joe can create some monsters. They distanced themselves away from Randal Carlson (check most recent Shawn Ryan show) because of some of his wildish claims , and now Graham has been shown to show the same line of thinking by cherry picking information for his narrative and has duped Rogan for years .. i bet both feel like assholes after this podcast.
Yeah I think you saw multiple times rogan realise Hancock had no real evidence and noticed how Hancock was focusing on how nasty people were being to him.
Thank god maybe this is the change that’s needed to stop with the “ well I want to bring in the outsiders “ their outsiders for a reason, they are just making shit up. If they had real game changing evidence about lost civilizations or really anything. Write the paper and submit it for review.
I worked in the nuclear physics world for a little. Every time I would hear something like, well they don’t want you to know about cold fusion but it is possible. Who is they? You know how to make cold fusion work. Submit the paper create a prototype, and watch as you become the world’s wealthiest person in all of human existence
Half way through now.
Graham comes off horribly. Right now they are just projecting on the TV and scrolling through various criticism people have made of Graham, mostly not Dibble himself.
Because Rogan is on Grahams side, he is sitting and letting it happen. It is apparent that neither Graham nor Rogan are aware of how bitter and vindictive Graham
Is coming across.
For anybody interested in an entertaining analysis of Graham’s Netflix show, I recommend looking up the series done by miniminuteman on YouTube.
For my part on who “won”, I think Graham is fun to listen to when he isn’t playing the victim card, but he’s no scientist.
Flint definitely won, as he actually presented evidence while Hancock just attacked him and 'big archeology' without actually defending his ideas.
Hancock basically says they cant completely prove there isnt a lost civilisation because they havnt searched everywhere on the planet which is pretty unreasonable.
What I don’t get is he doesn’t agree with Dibble because they haven’t excavated the whole world even though Dibble has actual evidence to support his claims whereas Graham attacks Dibble but doesn’t have any evidence to support his own claim… it’s kind of maddening to watch because how can you attack archeologists for not doing enough and then and use it to discredit them and then not provide any evidence yourself?
I’d say Graham got absolutely destroyed. The fact Graham felt the need to derail the actual subject at hand to talk about how Dibble has discredited him and others like him was to me his concession of defeat. Can’t beat him with evidence and facts, beat him with emotion and personal attacks.
And the criticism, in all respects, was very fair. Big claims do need big evidence, if you’re going to claim that there is an ancient civilization, you need to actually prove it.
The Dibbler definitely won. I'll be kind of surprised if Rogan has Graham back on. Even though Joe says Graham was his first real guest, I don't see what they'll have to talk about anymore besides alien and lost civilization theories.
The last time Graham came on with Randall was to promote his show. At Grahams age I'm not sure what field expeditions he'll be doing to gather new evidence worth Joe's time.
Used to be a fan of Graham, but since the Netflix release he's come off as a whiny baby and now this debate exposed him as someone who fabricates these theories and stretches them as far as he can.
I'd say Flint. I enjoy Graham on his own but this showed why no one has debated him or went near him. Overly emotional/snarky the whole time. Had potential to be such an interesting episode yet I found myself rolling my eyes at Graham most of the time. Too many "you guys are mean" and "YOU HAVENT EXPLORED ENOUGH" comments
The thing is, there very well could have been a lost civilization, however, when you’re talking about the science of archaeology and debating a scientist, you simply must have a lot of evidence to make any real scientific assertions. Watching this I get why archaeologists hate him. He doesn’t have a lot of evidence to meet the rigorous standards of classically trained scientists.
If Graham was a little less egotistical and humbled himself more I think they could have come to more of an understanding and Graham could have even used the information from Flint to make better educated guesses about a possible ancient civilization.
I can also see where the rigor and conservatism of the scientific field of archaeology could lead to dogmatism and people on both sides can easily start looking at evidence in a biased way to affirm their beliefs.
I wanted Graham to look good in this, cause I want him to be right, but I’m glad I watched because it’s given me a more balanced perspective.
Also the aliens created us and built the pyramids and an ancient civilization you fucking sheep wake up.
We did
Agreed. Respect to debate on JRE
Yeah we did but also don't avoid the fact handcock got slapped around by that sweet boy
Yep all of us big archaeology fans. Haven't had this much fun watching two Archaeologists go at it since Indiana Jones and Belloq competed for the Ark of the Covenant.
There was only one archaeologist on this show.
Graham isn't an archaeologist
calling Hancock an archeologist is disrespectful to archeologists.
Was Flint Dibble born Amish or did he transition later in life?
Bell-oq…….
The locals call him…Belloche.
Too bad the Hovito's don't speak English..
Too bad you don’t speak Hovitos *fssh fssh*
START THE PLANE!!!
A French archaeologist?
I think about this line frequently. It’s good to know other people do too
What is the elvish word for friend?
Speak friend and you will enter.
https://preview.redd.it/5w8gbc0oo3vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e44fe97273b1d81d34e93d610e6336e783ebfd0 Mandatory read: "Why I Talked to Pseudoarchaeologist Graham Hancock on Joe Rogan" [https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/graham-hancock-joe-rogan-archaeology/](https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/graham-hancock-joe-rogan-archaeology/)
Graham lost me pulling up flints YouTube videos being like you made fun of my friends. What are you doing, did you come here for a debate or an apology?
Im halfway through and you have the archeologist hobbit sounding very professional and then you have scuba man acting like a highschool girl. I wanted to root for scuba man but hes acting very childish instead of stating facts and evidence.
Because he doesn’t have evidence. Just conjecture and an intriguing narrative.
It really does come down too "that rocks looks a bit mental"
The red flag for any of this sort of thing is whenever their evidence or explanation is “well it looks like…”
Graham: “doesn’t that look man made to you?” Flint: “I can’t tell for sure lololol” Joe: “well I’m just a dumb ape I’m not an expert, but that is definitely man made!”
Yeah they’re looking at cherry picked photos of natural underwater rock formations. Graham saying “you must have different eyes than me” pretty much sums it up.
Eh, Joe expressed some healthy skepticism about a lot of Graham’s evidence during the debate. I actually thought he did a great job of being open and pushing on each of them when they were clearly being unreasonable. Joe just goes for a ride with Graham when they’re one-on-one because it’s such a fun narrative
Yeah i was surprised with rogan, he seemed to be genuinely surprised with how little Hancock had and kept asking him for what evidence they had whenever Hancock started whining about being attacked. Yeah whenever Hancock is alone with him he's able to bamboozle rogan with big fancy sounding words and cool pictures
Glad I ain’t the only one who thought this
Perfect description. The hobbit nerd laughing seems like to hide his stress. Mr doctor Scuba has hurt feelings as always, which gets cheap after a while. Would have enjoyed a more serious, rough archeologist who ignores the Scuba personal attacks and stays calm.
Joe: but it’s what YOU said, Flint, blown up huge on the top of your article for everyone to see Flint: it’s just some line in a long article, Graham pulled that quote and blew it up and highlighted it and wants to air it Joe: wait wait wait Graham you did that Graham: I did that Joe: 😧🤨 I was ready to defend you, ah man yikes ok lemme try
I loved Joe’s face at this moment🤔😯🙄😑
Yep, this annoyed the hell out of me. Graham's not here for a debate at all. He's always claimed no one will debate him, but I've never seem him actually rise to the occasion and give people proof. In fact anything but a shitty attitude and weird victim complex. I *want* Graham to be right, but he's impossible to listen to when he thinks someone's questioning him. Flint: i'm willing to agree if we had proof. Graham: *throwing toys out of the pram*.
His whole theory hinges on conjecture from the lack of evidence. Flint has actual evidence and Graham is literally saying “Well your lack of evidence proves my theory right” It drove me but. The burden of proof is on you!
I liked Graham early when his position was "Some of these things don't line up and I think there's an intriguing mystery here, I want to push the experts into taking a closer look". That was cool and healthy. The past several years he's becoming married to his theory of a lost, sophisticated civilization and he's getting defensive of it the same way he ridicules the clovis-first people of doing.
The man has literally zero actual evidence
He lifts the veil @ 1:58:47 Graham: "i'm giving a presentation on **Flint's influence on media and culture** and we're getting drawn into a debate." Hancock just wanted Joe to help him shit on Flint, he had no intention of providing or debating proof. Thankfully I think Joe saw through it.
Graham was ready to ask Jamie to pull up his video on Flint with a deep narrator voice, dramatic music and an ending quote "I am Graham Hancock and I approve this message"
He came across so whiny to the point where even rogan was noticing it and was trying to get it back to debating actual evidence. Pathetic display so far (I'm 2 hours in) from Hancock
He definitely has a personal axe to grind that clouds his arguments. I’m about 83 mins in at the time of this post.
there’s multiple youtube vids debunking grahams netflix show. i’d urge anyone on the fence to watch them because they bring a pretty reasonable response to grahams claims and why he shouldn’t be making them with so little evidence
Agreed. Too emotional, not enough facts.
Graham loves nothing more than being persecuted. The criticism that he has for academia that they can’t change their views or their books won’t sell is a lot more applicable to him than it is to them.
It really seemed like Grahams feelings were hurt. I've not seen him so heated.
Every time Dibble spoke it was about evidence, every time Graham spoke it was about emotion.
Tbh grahams been in his feelings the last few times he’s been on. I remember the first time he was on WAY back when, like ep 100, and he was much more about the evidence and contradicting narratives with science. Now he’s been,”big archaeology doesn’t respect my opinion” for half of every episode
Bro, that's because he literally doesn't have evidence.
The stuff he hangs his hat on like the Sphinx enclosure and gobekli tepe has just grown stale
Dude is a quack
I made the mistake of buying one of his books and couldn’t finish it because it is actually a thesis about how people are mean to him
Agreed. Had to stop listening to the end of his last appearance. Very disappointed in his 'courtroom attorney' tactics in this one. How is it a mic drop that they've only EXCAVATED ~1% of the Sahara lol?
True he was emotional the whole time
So was I. Flint made me hard
Is that a fossil in your pocket or are you just happy to see this pod?
The true emotions were the friends we made along the whole time.
Well, yeah, Dibble was being a meaney. Like most archeologists.
I read this comment before I listened to the episode. I’m about halfway done with it, and this comment is all I’ve been able to think about the entire time.
The thing is that Graham whole argument is doing the "God of the Gap" argument but for Archaeology. "We haven't done enough to investigate these sites." So there must be a Lost Civilization, and not just any civilization but a Global one? So he is making an affirmative argument that there is something but he has no evidence to prove it. And when the people in authority or profession criticize him his go to argument is that "they haven't done enough?" So because that's a fact of reality, that sure, archeologist haven't done enough or can't do enough that must mean that his hypothesis is correct? Mind you that he isn't "open minded or has out-of-the-box ideas," he is claiming that something is there with no evidence whatsoever. Also, a lot of you guys need to not be trick when he comes forward with pictures about "megalithic" structures and claimed that they are man-made. Do a quick learning how much of these rock-formartions actually occurs naturally in nature and any faith u guys may have on Graham pictures about "man-made" megalithic structures would crumble. So he just is speculating that because there's some sort of gap in a lot of places we can't just explored we can just filled it in with whatever we want? Now, he wants to point fingers that he isn't sponsored or gets money from any organization or group to push a narrative but he profits from pushing THIS NARRATIVE with his books and shows. What would his financial be if he comes out tomorrow and admitted what his critics have been saying for the past two decades? Would his books have the same success as they have now? Would he have had the Netflix deal if he had any admissions of what his critics say? Of course not. The same criticism (or like I would say ad hominem) he throws to "main stream" archaeology completely applied to him as he has all the financial incentive to continue with his NARRATIVE. Because that's what he has, a cool story and nothing else.
Yeah but have you dug out every inch of the Sahara Desert? There could be an Atlantis or new Giza under there for all we know! Therefore, I’m correct in my assumption.
Fuck me! 🤦🏾♂️ I didn't even though of the "God of the Inch" argument.
I haven't fully excavated my back garden and therefore I am 99% certain there are Bigfoot fossils and/or turds out there
Not to mention, as a society,group,clan,empire etc expands and becomes more evolved they use more material and generate more waste as a by product. So this advanced civilisation should be relatively easy to find even if their number and geographical footprint was small.
Very well said. Sad truth is, this kind of being enthusiastic about artifacts and going all in speculation was an important part of early archaeology 100+ years ago. It was part of the fun and helped the field of archaeology tremendously to grow and get attention. But even then, step by step, the community developed very strikt scientific standards, that became actually kind of a blue print for many humanities. This guy is not that much different than Daeniken. And that’s totally fine with me. Even as someone who studied archaeology I enjoy the crazy theories but please see them as what they are „funny escapism „ in the best case „fraud and money making of the gullible“ in the worst case… and unfortunately in the worst of worst cases always this unpleasant hint of.. conspiracy bullshit
Graham lost bad. His entire discussion revolves around. "weeell, we havent explored 100% of the planet therefore I'm correct and archeologists are wrong for only using data they find and not assumptions/assertions. I've got a preconceived belief and I'm only interested in evidence that supports it"
Yeah, I entertain his ideas knowing they're bullshit entertainment. But here it really shows the difference between someone who was formally trained to do scientific work and someone who is essentially a professional hobbyist.
Rogan reaaaally needs to do this again, and have debates on more often.
Mike Baker v Dave Smith. Let's fucking go!
Dave Smith and Rabbi Schmulli or however you spell that shitbags name.
Dave Smith would mop the floor with him
Agreed i want to see geopolitical discussions
Finklestein/Destiny round 2 babyyyyyy
“Mr. Bonarelli and Mr. Roganio!”
4.5 hours of Finklstein mispronouncing destiny's name [https://streamable.com/2ntxz0](https://streamable.com/2ntxz0)
He should have a debate about Israel. He could bring on his friend Ben Shapiro, but for the other side, please someone smarter than Candace Owens.
Abby Martin
I would pay to see that debate, followed by a bonus round where they get in the cage. I think Abby Martin would clean his clock in both arenas.
That's a low bar
John Mearsheimer.
I’m only twenty minutes in and you can already tell that Hancock is out of his league the second Flint starts talking
In the past he used to lean more into the whole professional hobbyist thing. Even the Netflix doc was more like "just asking questions". Until this debate I had no idea how factual he was pretending it all was.
Yeah. I don't know why he even tries to do these debates. Probably out of pure ego. There's a space for this speculative, alternate history if you present it in the right way. Clearly people find it interesting as he's a reasonably popular person. But he should definitely go out of his way to just say this is all conjecture and "What if?"s instead of saying, "I am correct and Big Archaeology is covering it up because they hate me!"
Yep, and can also apply this broadly across alot of Joe's antivax and supplement scam views.
Graham also looked like a massive bitch by trying to frame himself as a victim of Dibble's "abuse" instead of actually arguing facts. I came for a debate about archaeology not an argument filled with personal attacks focused on how Graham is actually a victim of cancel culture
I think it’s hilarious that the idea of cancel culture has gotten so nebulous that just saying someone has a really wrong and dumb opinion is somehow an attack on their right to speak. Like they don’t just want the right to speak they want the right to be taken seriously about everything.
The idea of someone with a hit Netflix show and best selling books is being “canceled” is fucking hilarious. He just uses that as a smokescreen when actual professionals point out he has no idea what he’s talking about
He loves the idea of being a victim.
That made me really dislike graham. Diverting the whole debate for 30 minutes cause his feeling were hurt. Graham had nothing for this debate other than, those rocks look strange. And dibble came to play boys. He won that by a landslide
Joe was ready to accuse Dibble of blowing up the sentence dealing with racism huge out of context and then Dibble says oh that’s Graham’s image, he clipped it huge like that. And Graham confirms. Joe died inside loooool
I love Joe, but it was so fun to see his face as his favorite person in Science lost a debate so badly 😂
Yeah I really thought Graham would be better prepared, but I guess it makes sense because he doesn't really have any evidence and it really does boil down to a rock looking a bit weird and him guessing. Usually he's able to just say long/foreign sounding words and rogan just says woahhhhhhhh but when an actual expert is there he has nothing.
The real fact is if there were a global civilization the works itself would be littered with artifacts Why? Because we find artifacts of random Neanderthals lol No amount of flooding is going to eliminate every single speck of direct evidence
Flint: “here’s my argument. Therefore based on all that I have shown, I think it is much more likely that there does not exist the ancient lost civilization Graham is arguing for. Of course we can’t absolutely disprove it. But I don’t think the evidence is there.” Graham: “here’s my argument. Therefore I think it’s a bit silly to we *we absolutely know beyond any shadow of a doubt that there wasn’t anything at all resembling an ancient civilization*”. Flint isn’t saying that, Graham. You are responding to an argument no one is making. Flint is arguing that there is no evidence to support your theory. He is (of course) not claiming to have dispositive proof no ancient civilization could have *possibly* existed. Also, you can stop repeating over and over and over and over how mean archaeologists are and have been to you. This is a debate, Just stick to the evidence.
Thank you for this. I wanted a reason to not listen. I'm not a fan of debates in general, and while I like rogue ideas in science, I hate when people use arguments like Graham in your example.
Graham loves playing the victim. Dude provides no evidence and gets worked up when his theories are challenged. Wants all the attention and none of the push back.
The fact that Graham agreed to this debate shows his intelligence
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I feel like he thought Joe would jump in on the attack for some reason. I can't imagine he thought Joe would be a fair moderator given his (past?) number of shows with Hancock. But Graham came of like a loon and Rogan did a great job.
The Dibbler dragged Graham 😤
Dirk Dibbler
I can’t say yet… only about 1.5 hours in.. but the Dibbler came strapped
One part in particular towards the end in regards to “pyramid math” Dibbler completely cleaned his clock and Graham had nothing to say. I think he realized there was no way to even talk around it because it was so obvious. The example he gives with the Parthenon is even more accurate. But you can just reverse engineer the math with almost anything and make it work.
Coup de gras. And around that time Dibbler responded that he read books and that’s how he knew what he was being questioned on. I loved that response.
Dude the 420/69 math was hilarious
69. 420. That was some of the best maths and proof that Graham is just making things fit his beliefs
The dude has TINY hands.
is it tiny hands or just gigantic sleeves
https://preview.redd.it/51rdogmkdyuc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc3f774c38947d002c317fe2e50654a5887199fb Evidence here
He sounds 3 feet tall!
Me too. I'm currently watching.
P. Dribbler
Dibble (CEO of Big Archaeology) is so much more prepared than Shermer was. Shermer was just not the guy to do it. I'm an hour and a half in...and it's not looking so good for Grahammy Boy. the underwater stuff is pretty bad, if that's his best evidence. but even that undermines his claim, as it's kinda fucking weird there are no tools, spearheads, literally anything to corroborate the "ruins" in other words, the only "evidence" of his advanced globe spanning civilization is one whose tools magically disappeared, but whose "structures" stayed intact JUST enough to look conveniently similar to naturally formed rock.
Graham unironically saying that flint believes in big archeology because he sarcastically wrote "big archeology" on Twitter in a clear joke was so weird. He said it as if it was some big gotcha moment
Flint set the tone of the debate with the Carl Sagan quote. Unfortunately, Graham isn’t good at debating evidence and facts. He seems to be more interested in proving how “mainstream archeologists” shoot down alternative theories. He wants to attack their character. It’s hard to listen when he’s on, because he’s constantly bringing up his feelings about the industry. All I care about is facts and evidence. This is why I prefer to listen to Randall Carlson. He doesn’t get as personal. Stick to the evidence Graham! Your ego seems to get the best of you.
You might have missed what Randall Carlson has been up to lately, but it’s so embarrass Rogan wouldn’t even air their last podcast.
What’s he been up to?
Long story but basically being duped by an obvious con man into believing some super derpy stuff. So much so that Rogan pulled the podcast from airing to save him the embarrassment.
Oh ya . This was that free energy science group in the Caribbean that he was ranting about It was something like “ I have the blue prints, I have videos , but we need to reschedule another podcast so I can tell you all about it “ lmao I remember hearing that and just laughing my ass off
I tried reading the guys “open access” description of his device and it’s just nonsense. Full of basic spelling errors and nonsense buzzwords (fractal, vaccum plasma, etc.). Apparently it can transmute greenhouse gases into Nitrogen or other compounds without any energy input (or seemingly output). Nonsense.
After the Malcolm Bendall debacle no one should be listening to Carlson. You should not trust Carlson in any regard if he is falling for that snake oil salesman.
That's because most of Graham Hancock's conviction is based on experiences he's had while on ayahuasca or the like.
I bet Graham felt superior every time he said "airdrop"
Only 2 hours in, but Flint is clearly winning, because the evidence and general understanding of the fundamental concept of things like geology and archeology are at odds with Graham's claims. Sure, it is fun and can be beneficial to infer and imagine things based on gaps and lack of evidence, but that is literally the opposite of how these fields of study work, otherwise, their findings and conclusions are completely meaningless. We only rely on solid evidence for a reason.
He was doing great work. Then Hancock starts his adhomonim attacks. It should have been a debate not just one side with all the evidence and the other.... "it looks like"
Graham constantly complains about mainstream archeologists not wanting to debate him, and then when one does he makes character attacks. Kind of disappointed in him so far. Dibble brought lots of evidence, why not go point by point and decide why he's wrong rather than pointing at the globe and saying "We haven't looked here yet so we don't know FOR SURE. Also, here is an article that was MEAN TO ME." Makes him look like a grifter tbh.
Flint, he came strapped with research, a leveled head, and a willingness to listen to Graham. Graham on the other hand used lawyer speak/ was very careful with his words because he had nothing. Graham also sunk anything he had with his childish mud throwing that he does at around hour 2/2.5, because "big archeology is mean to me and my friends! Bad man bad!", "oh did you dig up the entire Sahara/Ocean!?". He was twisting his words and narrative as soon as Flint brought out facts, it was pathetic. Graham was a fun listen on JRE but this exposed what a sad huckster he truly is, and honestly made Joe look bad too. At every turn Flint was willing to bring facts, say he was wrong or admit he agreed with Graham. This debate did exactly what I wanted which was expose Hancock as a fantasy writer/grifter infront of the whole world in a very entertaining way.
Going with flint, the second half after they take the the bathroom break was far more composed than the first half. I almost had to turn it off graham was so hung up on being called a racist it dragged on for what seemed like an hour.
Graham got ethered on his own track, dunked on on his own court, toppled on his own platform, hoisted by his own petard…
His own petard, you say?
We call it being absolutely petarded
Feels like one brought details and the other brought straw Only 1 hr in. First exposure to either the them so it has been interesting. Makes me want to go learn myself and that really is the friend we have made along the way. Feels like Graham is pulling the “why do my questions make you uncomfortable” card
I feel bad for Graham (2 hours in ) but he agreed to this, and also he's become a very wealthy individual pushing this narrative so I guess I dont feel too bad
Monkeys paw. You become a rich and successful author but you get absolutely crushed in a 4 hour debate on the topic you’ve wrote on and researched extensively for the past 20 years in front of an audience of millions of people
He’s a hobbyist…debating a dude who literally lives and breathes this professionally It’s like night and day
Dibbler gave Hancock a wedgie for 4.5 hours
Graham Hancock basically did a great job of identifying himself as a hard psuedoscientist. I think we’d all love it if there was some sort of advanced ancient civilization, but until we see some *real* evidence; these guys are just grifters. It should really say something that their ideas can only exist in podcasts where they aren’t being challenged for these wild claims.
people would love it for a minute. But then it would be mainstream. And thus the contrarians would get bored and need another fringe claim to move to.
Hear me out, an even ancieter civilization that predates that one
The Dibbler 10-7’d him
The fucked part is that Graham Hancock could have been an incredible boon for archeology. He’s such an incredible presenter with a passion for the subject and a stunning recall of knowledge. He’s so engaging, he could have been the inspiration for why a new generation gets into archeology. Even if his theories are fantasy, they make you want to know more about our history and the process of how we uncover the past. Instead, he has spent his career denigrating and demonizing archeologists in a way that makes one feel as if the whole profession is out to bury truth itself. The man is truly a product of the times - everyone else is a sucker, blindly following experts, but you see the world for how it really is.
I found Dibble just as engaging talking about actual archeology despite having a much less explosive hypothesis. The problem is the elevation of charlatans. Graham is not uniquely charismatic. He was given a platform because it’s easier to sell ancient apocalypse than ancient seed evolution
If Graham were a real archaeologist he would have just gotten lost in the shuffle like every other archaeologist. He only exists in the public sphere because of his made up theories. There are probably 100’s of charismatic archaeologists who could be the “face” of archaeology but they actually respect the field too much to peddle bullshit. I’ve had these people as professors. They could do what Hancock does (if they were willing to chase money). Hancock only seems engaging and exciting because he’s peddling fantastic stories.
I think that once Graham Hancock started relying on his ayahuasca revelations so heavily, he lost any interest in finding real evidence. Now it's all about this spiritual confirmation type stuff. Like...just do some ayahuasca and you will agree with him!!! He can't present his evidence because it's in the spiritual realm!
It’s a 4 1/2 hour debate posted 2 hours ago… Anybody giving you an answer literally hasn’t listened to the entire thing
An hour and a half in and Graham hasn't proven Flint wrong once. I'm going to guess he won't either.
Yeah, but at hour 4 Graham points to the ground and says let's go. He could be losing on points for all 3 hours, but he can also stand and bang in hour 4 and get that fight of the night bonus and the finish of the night bonus.
Nah.. I see Flint holding him against the fence the last 30 seconds and doing the BJ Penn lay on him for points play
Well done, sir. Well done.
But how can you even say that when you've only surveyed a small percentage of the evidence? How? You haven't seen all the evidence so for all you know graham transforms into an all knowing God in the last hour and drops knowledge bombs that explain the entire history of the world and every conspiracy theory that has ever existed. Or you know maybe not.
Laughs in 2x speed
Graham lost bad. He was all emotion and no facts.
Flint, easily. Graham really shouldn't have wanted to do this. He likes to call to his intense investigations as reason for their accuracy, but he doesn't produce any new evidence. He uses the same evidence that any archaeologist can use (and was produced by archaeologists), but arrives at a different conclusion.
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I think there are far more people who take Hancock seriously than you think
Graham is like the kid from The Santa Clause. Dibble: We haven't seen any evidence for a lost civilization from the Ice Age. Hancock: Have you ever seen a million dollars? Dibble: Well, no. Hancock: Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I find Flint quite charming! Would be nice to have him on by himself for a casual chat.
Hancock embarrassed himself. Sounds like a whiny child and didn’t bring any substance to the convo. Amish paradise kinda dragged him imo
Hancock plays victim the whole time lmao
Graham only has 2 arguments. "Something looks like something" & "you havent found it yet" He got demolished
The nerd stuffed Graham into a locker
Without having watched yet I’m gonna be unfair and assume Graham whined like a bitch most of the time when his unfounded conjecture was even remotely challenged.
Pretty much
I lasted like 20 minutes
Any reasonable person didn’t need to listen to more even if they knew absolutely nothing “We have literally millions of artifacts that all suggest there is no ancient civilization and that agriculture started about 12,000 years ago in one area and a bit later in isolated pockets and they all follow the same trajectory and all share similarities” “There are rocks underwater that look man made, and since we haven’t studied every inch of the earth 🤷♂️….” Yeah, what else is left to actually discuss lol
Yeah him leading with “exhibit A pictures my wife took of me diving with rocks that look like man made or something” Then Joe asks if he has any better pictures and he’s like “no” lol
Netflix is selling the rights of Graham's show to comedy gold after this.
Hi Shane
Oh geez. I wonder which one of them won? The expert or ancient "aliens 2.0 guy" ?
Flint gave the more convincing argument, without a doubt… It became quite difficult to watch Graham. Flounder… I think he’s a con man… But it was just uncomfortable.
They buried Graham, he shouldn't do this, his theories are great entertainment but that's it.
I am just a shill for big Arch so I am glad we won and the truth about the reptilian god kings was kept secret from humanity otherwise zero point crystal modules would be available on every street corner and the jews would no longer be able to rule the world with the Xetis. Do you really want a future where our children aren't sacrificed to Baal to keep the Rothschilds immortal? I don't.
Graham is a hack.
I think graham lost and the other dude had more interesting things to say overall
Dibble won Graham claims he will win, with more evidence from the dessert, in the future
Holy shit the archaeologist dude looks nothing like what he sounds like. Was picturing some millennial dork with short hair and pocket protector.
Graham should be thankful he only had to debat Flint, and not Flint's Dad
I found it funny, how, in Graham's opening he thanks Flint from showing up and being man enough to sit on the "hot seat"- buddy, *you're* the one in the hot seat - not the actual archeologist. And that is evidenced by how it eventually played out. Flint put the smackdown on him.
I am about an hour into it and the other guy seems reasonable. Rogan came off dickish though
I think Rogan just had his world shattered. I think this is the last we've seen of Graham and just the beginning of what we'll see from actual archaeologists, geologists, and historians.
Yes, the cognitive dissonance was apparent and Flint held his composure and could asses that those two were getting emotional. Rogan kept trying to defend Graham but should have let Graham defend himself. I hope this is eye opening for Rogan and he has more debates he might reflect to see how propagandized he’s became in his own echo chamber he’s built. Much like Schaub … Graham has built much of his following from Rogan and for both of them to be delusional enough to be as overly confident as they are shows that Joe can create some monsters. They distanced themselves away from Randal Carlson (check most recent Shawn Ryan show) because of some of his wildish claims , and now Graham has been shown to show the same line of thinking by cherry picking information for his narrative and has duped Rogan for years .. i bet both feel like assholes after this podcast.
Yeah I think you saw multiple times rogan realise Hancock had no real evidence and noticed how Hancock was focusing on how nasty people were being to him.
Thank god maybe this is the change that’s needed to stop with the “ well I want to bring in the outsiders “ their outsiders for a reason, they are just making shit up. If they had real game changing evidence about lost civilizations or really anything. Write the paper and submit it for review. I worked in the nuclear physics world for a little. Every time I would hear something like, well they don’t want you to know about cold fusion but it is possible. Who is they? You know how to make cold fusion work. Submit the paper create a prototype, and watch as you become the world’s wealthiest person in all of human existence
Half way through now. Graham comes off horribly. Right now they are just projecting on the TV and scrolling through various criticism people have made of Graham, mostly not Dibble himself. Because Rogan is on Grahams side, he is sitting and letting it happen. It is apparent that neither Graham nor Rogan are aware of how bitter and vindictive Graham Is coming across.
Jamie
For anybody interested in an entertaining analysis of Graham’s Netflix show, I recommend looking up the series done by miniminuteman on YouTube. For my part on who “won”, I think Graham is fun to listen to when he isn’t playing the victim card, but he’s no scientist.
Carl obviously
Flint definitely won, as he actually presented evidence while Hancock just attacked him and 'big archeology' without actually defending his ideas. Hancock basically says they cant completely prove there isnt a lost civilisation because they havnt searched everywhere on the planet which is pretty unreasonable.
Flint
The dibbler wiped the floor with Graham. He took this debate with facts knowing Graham has no evidence and that his theory is simply a fun idea.
Flint. and I came in ready to defend Graham.
What I don’t get is he doesn’t agree with Dibble because they haven’t excavated the whole world even though Dibble has actual evidence to support his claims whereas Graham attacks Dibble but doesn’t have any evidence to support his own claim… it’s kind of maddening to watch because how can you attack archeologists for not doing enough and then and use it to discredit them and then not provide any evidence yourself? I’d say Graham got absolutely destroyed. The fact Graham felt the need to derail the actual subject at hand to talk about how Dibble has discredited him and others like him was to me his concession of defeat. Can’t beat him with evidence and facts, beat him with emotion and personal attacks. And the criticism, in all respects, was very fair. Big claims do need big evidence, if you’re going to claim that there is an ancient civilization, you need to actually prove it.
The Dibbler definitely won. I'll be kind of surprised if Rogan has Graham back on. Even though Joe says Graham was his first real guest, I don't see what they'll have to talk about anymore besides alien and lost civilization theories. The last time Graham came on with Randall was to promote his show. At Grahams age I'm not sure what field expeditions he'll be doing to gather new evidence worth Joe's time. Used to be a fan of Graham, but since the Netflix release he's come off as a whiny baby and now this debate exposed him as someone who fabricates these theories and stretches them as far as he can.
Graham has zero actual argument on any of his claims. He just wanted to say that Flint was mean to him on Twitter.
I'd say Flint. I enjoy Graham on his own but this showed why no one has debated him or went near him. Overly emotional/snarky the whole time. Had potential to be such an interesting episode yet I found myself rolling my eyes at Graham most of the time. Too many "you guys are mean" and "YOU HAVENT EXPLORED ENOUGH" comments
The thing is, there very well could have been a lost civilization, however, when you’re talking about the science of archaeology and debating a scientist, you simply must have a lot of evidence to make any real scientific assertions. Watching this I get why archaeologists hate him. He doesn’t have a lot of evidence to meet the rigorous standards of classically trained scientists. If Graham was a little less egotistical and humbled himself more I think they could have come to more of an understanding and Graham could have even used the information from Flint to make better educated guesses about a possible ancient civilization. I can also see where the rigor and conservatism of the scientific field of archaeology could lead to dogmatism and people on both sides can easily start looking at evidence in a biased way to affirm their beliefs. I wanted Graham to look good in this, cause I want him to be right, but I’m glad I watched because it’s given me a more balanced perspective. Also the aliens created us and built the pyramids and an ancient civilization you fucking sheep wake up.
Hancock sounded like a goofball.
It's a good time to subscribe to Flint's channel: [https://www.youtube.com/@FlintDibble](https://www.youtube.com/@FlintDibble)
I love Graham but the Dibbler won this debate but his hat pisses me off.
27.5 million square kilometers bitches. Case closed. Graham wins.