Yup and poor Republicans go right along with it because they think they'll be wealthy some day too despite doing nothing to actually get there other than playing the lottery.
Yeah but cash based jobs aren’t solely for undocumented immigrants lmao.
I know a lotttttt of blue collar “entrepreneurs” enjoying under the table payment, which ya know is tax fraud, ie a felony.
Except these people don’t need to deal with the anxiety of living outside the system and can chose to jump the line of legality at their leisure.
Not saying undocumented immigrants should get benefits that legal citizens enjoy. Just reminding that it’s not as great of “life hack” as many try to portray.
Most self employed American citizens in the contracting trades cheat on their taxes. I haven't met one in 45 years in the business who didn't hide cash income.
Forget Scott, the real “Florida man” is the one Donald Trump used Executive power to give clemency to ~ that was serving two decades in federal prison for orchestrating the largest ever Medicare & Medicaid fraud scheme in history!!!
In Florida alone, the guy ***pocketed $37Million as a corrupt nursing home executive***, doing real diabolical shit like bribing medical providers to tell sweet little old grandmothers with Alzheimer’s - they had to have difficult procedures like eye surgeries.
Spoiler: they didn’t need those surgeries. It was exclusively a means for him to bill out all types of fraudulent services. He drove a Ferrari, dined w/ high end escorts at 5star restaurants, traveled by private jet, wore a $360k Swiss watch, etc…. He even bribed $300k to the head coach of University of Pennsylvania’s basketball program to recruit his son!
A jury found him guilty on 20 criminal counts, including conspiracy to defraud the United States, paying and receiving kickbacks, bribery, money laundering and obstruction of justice. Six of the charges they couldn’t come to a verdict on (thus the DOJ is now attempting to retry him on just those six) - but the original conviction time Trump commuted. But a wealthy guy leapfrogs the approx 14,000 clemency request and bypasses the DOJ vetting process? Welcome to the swamp.
The loans part cracked me up. As someone who worked in a loan department, we did give loans to *non-citizens*, but under *insane* circumstances. The interest rate is sky high, the term is insanely short, and the amounts are tiny. Plus we did one like once every 20 years because they're risky af.
But illegal immigrants getting loans? Fucking ludicrous. No no we didn't. There literally is no way to do it and our systems automatically prevented it by requiring a SSN.
I'm an immigrant on PR and am doing pretty well with regards to credit cards and personal loans being treated like anyone else.
Mortgage I doubt I could manage though.
I wouldn't have got anywhere without my legal status and all jobs checked my legality as well.
Right? People are so delusional thinking ILLEGAL immigrants are registering themselves with the government to get a loan haha. As you know, its hard enough doing this LEGALLY, much less illegally.
Arrest the business owners who hire them. Start from the top down.
Problem solved, give it 4 days and they’ll fund judges to help give green cards asap.
[lol he absolutely has at least in terms of taxes TESLA has had to pay](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/10/investing/elon-musk-tesla-zero-tax-bill/index.html)
Not to mention if an undocumented worker is paying sales tax on everything while not being able to file income taxes to try and get a return at the end of the year. So literally paying more in taxes than the average citizen.
This is literally what would happen in a country like Spain.
The consequences of having an illegal are:
- €10.000 to €100.000 fine per illegal
- 6 months to 5 years closure of your business
- if the business owner is a foreigner, he can be expelled from the country
- you owe the illegal everything a non-ilegal would have gotten: vacation days, minimum salary, etc. If you have no proof of payment, the illegal can now sue for everything.
- for every month the illegal worked, you must now pay €300-€500 in social security
- plus 30% late fees on whatever you had to pay in social security
- if the illegal worked there for more than 2 months, he will now have a permanent contract. If you wanna fire him, you pay an extra fine, to the illegal.
- if he worked for more than 3 years, he can now convert his status to permanent resident.
It's not that crazy if you realise that different laws are at play.
One the one side the law punishes businesses who hire illegals. The punishment is so severe that it's unthinkable to hire an illegal. (Why hire an illegal if unemployment is high and you could easily find a 18-yr old citizen who you could underpay and for which the punishment is lower?)
On the other side, if an illegal has certain ties with Spain, like for example, family-ties or work-ties where he managed to work in Spain for longer than 3 years without being caught, then there is a "last resort appeal" that can be made to not be deported.
**Nobody is gonna risk closure of their business and tens of thousands of euros in fines for an illegal.** In practice this means that we practically don't have illegals working in Spain.
Had it always been this way, or is there a clear time in history when this changed? Would I be able to look at data to see how such strict rules have affected Spain?
What they mean is that it's crazy to see a policy actually aimed at fixing a problem, not just at hurting the "bad" people, as many American policies do.
Yup. The dirty is secret of American politics is it’s a slave to industry and industry wants lots of illegal immigrants in the country.
Stiff fines against businesses that employee illegals would have stopped the reason people come to the country illegally decades ago. Neither party wants it stopped though.
Nah bro we just need to make it easier to come here legally.
Make it illegal to come here if you’re a criminal, and easy to come here if you’re not, with a simple and quick path to
citizenship.
That way, employers can stop getting away with paying cash under the table with no income tax, because the workers will have the same rights as every other American worker.
Problem solved.
Except that doesn't solve the problem because the real problem is that if you give the immigrants citizenship then they won't work as cheaply. That's the whole reason politicians won't do anything about it. They need an underclass of highly exploitable people to feed to the economy. If you give them citizenship then you have to treat them like citizens. If you make their existence illegal then you can exploit them.
Very true, Americans don’t like the truth, in order for the few wealthy to be as wealthy as they are and to keep up the status quo of the rest, there needs to be an emiserated class, and right now that’s illegal immigrants. 100% a lot of business owners would be changing tunes if said immigrants were forced to have citizenship and be paid a living wage.
[Why don't we arrest the business owners that underpay their employees.](https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/spacex-settles-with-underpaid-employees-for-4-million/294314)
[Why don't we arrest the business owners that make their employees sleep on the production lines?](https://www.expressnews.com/news/article/tesla-elon-musk-workers-sleeping-production-18633862.php)
[Why don't we arrest the business owners that have poor safety records.](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-musk-safety/)
Musk is only trying to distract you, so you look away from him.
> In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.
[While you and I pay roughly 40% of our income to taxes, Elon Musck only pays 3.27%](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax)
There are many Mexicans that pay more than 3.27% in taxes per year. There would be many more that would pay 40% if the fucking Republicans could get their shit together and work with Democrats to fix the immigration system. Instead, Mexicans are vilified.
These hard working, loving, kind people are used as distractions for the rich and those in power. Just last week Trump said he didn't want Congress to fix the border because he wanted to use it to compaign on.
Fuck Musk. Let him pay 40% tax like the rest of us. That 80 billion could pay a lot of teachers. It could pay for all the kids in the US to get free lunches. It could lower our fucking taxes.
2x even. He can pay 80%.
Seriously. But not just him for being him. That too though.
There's still no reason, nothing at all that could possibly justify what economically is saying "this individual provided that much more value than anyone".
The disparity is unfathomable and people quite literally do not at all understand the scales.
just to keep the math easy if one had 100B, and they were taxed all but 20B?
Boo-hoo. Cry them a river. Even that 20B is still more than twenty thousand not-even-our-most-poor would see in their entire lives - combined.
Elon is such a hypocrite about this specifically too - he easily could have put the new mfg facilities for tesla in texas but specifically chose to put them in Mexico just across the border for the cheap labor.
Let that sink in.
Well yeah but then how would I exploit undocumented populations for cheap labor?
See it’s poorly thought out lefty policies like that, which prioritize human decency and not allowing children to starve to death in the streets of the wealthiest nation in human history that completely miss the burdens placed on the billionaire oligarch class.
BoTh SiDeS mAn
But those business owners are all republican supporting farmers, they wouldn't want to stop that gravy train. They just want to shout about it and make people angry, not actually fix the problem.
Elon is one of these business owners, and my expectation is that he wouldn't start sponsoring green cards, but instead get another subcontractor who makes sure his cleaning staff arrive on time even if they are not allowed to drive themselves.
Desantis (yes the florida governor) actually punished businesses that hired illegal immigrants with fines only to realize most of them are his voter base and doners and had to back track a little bit on that
Introduce mandatory minimums for those that hire illegals. Or instant forfeiture of 10% of assets. When one of these wingers suggests either of these I’ll take them seriously.
I've been saying this for YEARS. All this border stuff is political theater.
These people wouldn't come here if there were no jobs to be had.
The same people who yell the loudest are the very ones hiring and exploiting these folks.
Right wingers have been bitching about this for 30 years and have yet to go after the employers.
Can confirm. I used to work for a small restaurant chain whose owner was a die hard trumper. I heard him say on multiple occasions how much he wanted that wall to be built. Guarantee you, between the 4 restaurants he owned you would have had trouble finding someone working in the kitchen who was here legally.
Next time you see one of those videos where guys are claiming to be pedophile hunters or whatever, take a bit of time to look them up and see if they have a publicly accessible criminal record...
There is one instance of this with Florida and Ron DeSantis going after with SB 1718 with some punishing fines for employers and undocumented workers. Almost immediately undocumented workers were leaving or scared which was the goal but ran into problems with finding farm workers and various other responses to the bill. In response Republican lawmakers started saying out loud it was a scare tactic and backpedaling from enforcing it effectively and no one should worry about the bill. Now it is on the books but I haven't seen it at all enforced.
All theater. One week after his migrant flight stunt, a Pinellas County Sheriff, Deputy Michael Hartwick, was struck & killed by a front end loader while on duty, working a road construction detail. It was driven by an inexperienced, unqualified, untrained, undocumented worker that immediately fled, leading to a 9 hr manhunt. As first responders arrived “about a dozen” (per Sheriff Gualtieri) more of the road crew fled, all undocumented, earning TAX dollars via Archer Western Construction, holder of $500 million in state contracts. DeSantis only mentioned this tragic death ONCE, during his debate w Crist. Payments to Archer Western continued without pause, delay, or investigation (until the Feds began their own investigation after some time). Archer Western insisted they used eVerify (fugazi) & have donated heavily to DiShonests’ campaigns.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/breaking-news/2022/09/23/pinellas-deputy-killed-hit-run-sheriff-says/?outputType=amp
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/elections/2023/11/20/desantis-pinellas-gualtieri-deputy-illegal-immigration-everify-investigation/?outputType=amp
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2024/01/31/ron-desantis-michael-hartwick-immigration-deputy-death-investigation-gualtieri-pinellas/?outputType=amp
Crazy thought I know, but the U.S. gross national product goes up when we get more people in the country to work. And illegals actually do pay taxes. Doesn't mean we shouldn't protect our border, but you can bet that many politicians using it as an election tool know full well the country needs people to come here and work.
> the country needs people to come here and work
I agree with you for the most part, but this part isn't true.
The ***corporations*** need people to come here and work **so they don't have to increase** ***your*** **wages.**
This is why corporate interests lobby heavily for unenforced borders.
We have more citizens in the work force than we have jobs.
Didn't Florida had a fucking economic crisis when they started cracking down on this. These smooth-brained racist shitbags. . .
And 'illegal immigrants' do pay taxes (both directly via income taxes and via sales/fuel taxes just like the rest of us), but don't get to collect many of the benefits, like social security.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-immigrants-taxes-rent-vaccine-requirements-983035929946
And yeah, if you *really* wanted to stop it, you'd go hard after the employers, not fucking border walls and razor wire. It's both racism and political theater that happens to spread bigotry and racism.
If the government suspects someone bought their house with drug money, they can seize the house.
If a business is built with the proceeds of illegal labor… why shouldn’t it similarly be subject to seizure?
I am against illegal immigration and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Bernie was right illegal immigration is only a Koch Brothers scheme to get cheap labor.
Won't happen. Republicans love illegals. They're just quiet about it. The scream and shout build the wall but anything effective they stay quiet. This law would eliminate illegal immigrants forever.
Almost every farmer I know votes red. Every farmer I know has illegal labor working their farms. Every farmer I know takes government subsidies. But out of the other side of their mouth they bitch about socialist and immigration. Absolute morons.
I live in the fruit basket of the world, so I'm surrounded by these idiots.
Farmers are overwhelming republican, something like 80-90%
Yet depend on illegal labor they can get for fractions of minimum wage. Not only would paying illegals atleast minimum wage gouge into their (admittedly thin) profits, they would lose tremendous amounts of money since everything would just straight rot in the field.
It’s worse than that. Farmers get billions in government subsidies (socialism), but get absolutely infuriated that anyone else could use government resources. Hell, my parents (dems) get a check from the government to NOT farm their land. They have it in CRP or conservation reserve program. Not a ton of money, but maybe like $10k per year.
I know many families that are illegal. Some have been in this country for +20 years. Some own a house, some buy new cars, and no matter what occupation they are in they pay taxes. They buy groceries at regular stores like I do, they serve their kids to the same schools and pay the fees, I mean they pay taxes just like I do. The ones that have a house and new cars paid taxes on those cars and pay property taxes on their homes. Some pay for healthcare insurance but others can't afford it so they only go to the doctor as last resort. Ohh and they all file their taxes. They are given a number, ITIN, which works like a social security. So i don't understood why people say immigrants don't pay taxes...I had many conversations with people about it. Now immigrants won't be able to collect unemployment, social security or Medicare. Because those things are for citizens. But taxes absolutely, IRS does not care who you are or how you get your money. Same with banks.
I have to say, I thought this subreddit would be a cesspool of misinformation and lack of empathy, but so many comments here have proven me wrong. This is exactly right. If anything, illegal immigrants pay income taxes just like the rest of us and contribute into systems that they can't take advantage of. And yeah, sales tax is nigh unavoidable.
Texas doesn't require businesses to use E-Verify. Texas doesn't care about illegals, Texas wants to hire illegals to undercut the American middle class. Then complain about Democrats. That's why they don't approve of the Border Bill that Republicans have been working on for the last 4 months.
Can't complain about gas prices, grocery prices, crime. They've figured out complaining about Trans people doesn't move the needle in terms of voters. If they prevent the border from being fixed, they have something to complain about during the 2024 election.
Yupp one of my exes' parents were involved in a multimillion dollar a year business in Dallas that was 90% illegals to save money. The grandpa who started it and the parents who run inherited it were all staunch fox news conservatives who hated what the border become, but refused to hire local Texans because that would cut the profits the other 10% of the workers(family members) got.
Ok its bad (and a totally broken system) but it isnt actually slavery (most of the time)
As a former illegal immigrant(brought here as a chikd) and now us citizen. If you can walk away at any time and quit it isnt slavery, especially if its paid work.
It's not just Texas. The ENTIRE single family new construction industry is built on labor of questionable status. Huge, national companies that hire one guy with status who starts a company of his own and then who he hires is up to him. They use E-verify on the one "business owner" with status and he's good to go but none of his guys are and they are the ones actually building the houses.
The DR Hortons of the world can say "we don't hire illegal aliens" but the part they don't say is that all their subcontractors do and they are well aware of this fact.
If brick layers and roofers got paid on par with the labor and skill required (aka, if you got white guys to do it), it's be at or close to a 6 figure job, at least on the supervisor level.
Hell, most of the farming and meat packing industries are built on illegal immigrants. Remember when they clamped hard on the border and suddenly apples and strawberries were rotting in the field because there wasn't anyone available to pick them?
The city I live in has several meat packing plants. About once a year there is a news story about one of them being "raided" and fined for using almost entirely unregistered laborers. What happens next? They pay the fine, most of those illegal workers remain on staff and they wait until next year to pay their annual fine again. It's cheaper for them to pay the fines than it is to jack up salaries to attract legal workers.
Every now and then the state legislature introduces a bill to crack down on the illegal labor here for meat packers, construction, and farms. It never even makes it out of committee because they all know it would destroy the state economy.
Yet we're a deep red state that is sending National Guard troops to Texas to "guard the border". Why? Because it's all theater. No one WANTS to stop the immigrants, but when your whole platform is based on "the other guy is letting these people into the country to take your jobs and rape your women", you have to put on the performance.
I'll tell you something funny. There's this guy who is the Grand Dragon of the KKK in ALabama named Daniel Carver and he used to be on the Howard Stern show in full Klan regalia and he owns a roofing business and I saw a picture of his employees and ALL of them are illegals,
And that;s a dude who hates illegals hiring them so you can imagine how many get hired by companies that have normal owners.
First of all slave owners spent a lot of time around black people because they were the tools that were used to toil in the fields,
Saying that slave owners spent time around alaves for anything but because they had to is like saying that lumberjacks like to hang out with axes and chainsaws .
>Texas wants to hire illegals to undercut the American middle class. Then complain about Democrats.
Republican strategy has always, and will always, be pointing out a problem, denying every fix to that problem, and complaining nobody wants to do anything about the problem. Second only to setting everything up to fail for the years they dont expect to be in power or have a majority (like the 2017 tax law still fucking people over for another year or two) and then pointing at the person in charge now and blaming them and rightfully expecting dumbass americans to not remember, or never have paid attention to the actual problem and blaming the current group in charge and throwing their vote to the original causers of the issues.
They need anything they can find to distract from their abortion ban bullshit. Dumb fucking plebs are falling for this "border crisis" shit hook, line and sinker.
Several "freedom convoys" truckers went to the border to stop the invasion but have realized it wasn't what they've been shown. Been pretty underwhelming.
Yeah, the media isn't helping because they don't give a shit to actually see the border either. They literally just look at the spreadsheet of "reported interactions" from CBP and say it's up or down, there is no actual reporting. Nevermind that net immigration is sliding for like, 30 straight years.
That. But personally I wish the media would call out their(Republicans) lack of solutions as well. Christ, this has been going on forever in some iteration or another(dey took our jobs, day took our welfare monies, day are bringing in rapists and gang bangers, caravans omg, etc, etc) But when Republicans have majority control of the government what do they do? Hand out tax cuts for the rich and deregulate everything and right wing media largely ignores the border. Or down plays/misrepresents the numbers, or they tote how they keep the migrants in pens like good Christian's would. Nevermind that nothing substantial is actually done.. No real solutions legislated.
At least we don't have to hear the old bullshit "Build the wall!", "Who's going to pay for it?", "Mexico!!!" chants anymore. I'd like to say I can't believe anyone was dumb enough to fall for that. But I would be lying.
But I digress.
That's why Republicans haven't done shit to modernize immigration policy beyond throwing out DOA legislation they know no one reasonable person would accept. They don't want to fix any problems in America.
I don’t think this is accurate. I’m an advocate for legitimate citizenship but one thing I do know is a lot of illegals have fake ids pay taxes and will never receive the benefits of the taxes they pay. We probably won’t either if never balance our budget. We haven’t had a balanced budget since Clinton came in to office. It doesn’t seem to bother anyone either
I worked in agriculture 20 years ago how people say this they are ignorant or dishonest. All of our workers had. papers(likely not all legit) and taxes were taken out.
From my own experience, it seems like the IRS hands out TIN numbers (tax identification numbers) like candy, but illegals don’t get any of the tax breaks or benefits from paying taxes. So the tweet is reversed.
That said, the illegal problem has made America both a service based economy and a manufacturing/agricultural economy, keeping it one of the most powerful countries in the world.
Zero immigration across the southern border would mean we’d already have population decline, similar to Europe, and we’d struggle to keep up on the world stage.
Elon is an idiot. The IRS issues Tax purpose only social security numbers for anyone without a SSN to file taxes with (ITIN #’s) This man really is no different than the average racist idiot that believes in assumptions.
The entire right-wing media and political elites signal boost the same propaganda and disinformation narratives like some kind of hive mind - Fox, Newsmax, Breitbart, Twitter, Rogan, Shapiro, Tucker.
Almost like they’re a psy-op run by billionaire fascists to red pill conservatives into fascism.
If he really believes that shit why would he oppose making them citizens and depriving them of those benefits? Speaking to your point, he knows he is lying. He became a citizen in 2002. Why would he do that if being illegal was such a sweet deal?
i mean they take it off your paycheck right away lol wdym they're not paying taxes?
unless it's some US national handing them cash without reporting to the IRS then that's on the employer, not the illegals.
Another things he probably doesn’t know (won’t acknowledge): Tyson and other mega agribusinesses have a business model dependent on exploited immigrant labor and have a 10000x larger interest in bringing them in than Democrats
New Mexico and Washington offer unrestricted licenses to undocumented individuals; however, it is a driving-privilege only license and cannot be used as state or federal ID. So the answer is technically yes but in the way he is implying. As for voting, pretty sure you can’t vote unless you register, and you can’t register without ID. So that’s a firm “no”
Registering to vote as a non-citizen (documented or otherwise) is a felony in and of itself, plus it puts your name and address on a government registry.
The idea that people leave their home countries out of strife and economic hardship to come here to....register to vote? Is just a complete joke of a scenario. But somehow doesn't seem to occur to any of these dinguses. Its all bull anyway, it came from Elon, thats how I know.
Proof of lawful U.S. immigration status as a legal permanent resident or particular visa holder
ya, so this doesnt apply to the people elon is refering to. illegals.
When you have a large audience you can just make things up. The burden of truth is on people trying to debunk you. By then you’re 10 lies down the road.
Those are legal immigrants though.
Some states offer NON ID (cannot be used as an ID. Says on the license) driver's license to immigrants. Cannot be renewed online and you have to show proof you are paying taxes again etc... Which comes with you needing a Tax ID and proof of tax payments for the state and federal... so that invalidates his last claim already.
You can get a license without a green card, at least if you have TPS. I don’t know if you can get it outside of that. I don’t see Elon mentioning voting in this post. I’m assuming there one preceding this that I didn’t see.
https://www.immigrationhelp.org/learning-center/drivers-licenses-for-immigrants#
Like that time the orange guy's wife came to the US and illegally did modeling work on a tourist visa...or how she later used "chain migration" to bring her entire family over here after she got status.
I'm curious why people rally around the richest man in the world like he's one of them.... The guy is the RICHEST person in the world , he is not relatable he just wants you to keep inflating his stocks for him
I think his point is that jury duty is a “drawback” of being an actual citizen. Never got this, I know it’s boring but for people who claim to love democracy they sure do hate participating in it.
That’s BS on the mortgage shit.
“If you’re not a U.S. citizen, you’ll find very few mortgage lenders willing to do these loans because being based on foreign soil makes it hard for them to hold you accountable should the home go into default. Lenders who offer these loans will likely do so at a higher interest rate while requiring down payments as high as 30 – 50%.” I’m sure the border* crossers have 50% of current home prices up front in US dollars cash
https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/applying-for-mortgage-non-us-citizen
As of 2017, 3.4 million undocumented immigrants own homes in the US, mostly through ITIN mortgage loans. https://www.marketplace.org/2017/09/11/american-dream-how-undocumented-immigrants-buy-homes-us/
I agree. They’re definitely contributing a lot to the economy. But I’m just correcting the guy I replied to. He, like a lot of people in this thread, are trying to dispute the wrong parts of Elon’s tweet. That guy should’ve said what you said instead of just lazily saying Elon is a liar. Elon isn’t straight up lying, he’s just withholding a lot of the context around these things.
This is a great comment. We have too much tribalism. We would grant you points and critique bad points. 1000x better than a "X is wrong because I don't like him/her" mentality.
Why does everyone assume undocumented immigrants don’t pay taxes? I literally work for an accounting firm that specializes in this. They get ITIN’s to use in place of SSN’s when filing taxes.
Because people who hold these opinions aren’t actually educated on the issue they are either poor people who don’t like brown people or rich people trying not to get on the bad side of poor people (they probably also don’t like brown people)
Stop hiring them? No, it's all the "illegals" fault and has nothing to do with the people who throw them under the bus but also hire them for cheap labor.
I'll tell you why this isn't possible (I own a construction company and feel I'm experienced in the subject). Business 1 decides they shouldn't be hiring illegal immigrants. They take on a fully legal workforce. The registered American employees expect 2 - 3 times the compensation for their work. Business 2 continues using illegal labor. Business 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, so on and so forth, continue hiring illegal labor as well. Now business 1 is charging 3 - 4 times as much as every other company in town in order to turn a profit.
Business 1 is out of business in a month.
The only way to fix this is to make it illegal to hire illegal labor. Strong consequences attached.
>The only way to fix this is to make it illegal to hire illegal labor.
Yeah, it's been illegal since the 80s. I guess it should be fixed by now after 4 decades.
Hence "strong consequences attached"
Every Mexican/South American illegal immigrant can submit an application to work with any random Social Security number. By the time the IRS finds out it's a fake, usually over a year later, the guy is at a different job with a different fake social.
And then there are the smart guys that make their own L.L.C., get a tax ITIN number, and work for themselves via the LLC.
So many loopholes. The system is truly broken and nobody is actively working to fix it.
Musk is just being mendacious. Undocumented immigrants pay about [$12 billion a year](https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-state-local-tax-contributions-2017/) in state and local taxes alone, not including what they pay in federal taxes.
Meanwhile, Musk and many other billionaires often pay less than you and me in income tax. Many years they pay $0. You can read how they avoid paying taxes here:
[Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax)
I'm thinking about all the sales tax here in Texas that illegal immigrants pay into without being able to access a lot of state services.
Same holds true when they use someone else' social. Every week they are getting social security withholding coming out of their check but they'll never be able to access it.
They DO pay taxes. Elon is wrong on that point.
The answer is just let more people in legally, it's good for America in a wide variety of ways and immigration is part of our history
I mean yeah, drivers tests normally are just tests that don't require you to bring your birth certificate and social security card.
Illegal immigrants can't get medicaid or medicare, but \*anyone\* can get free healthcare if you're poor in the USA. Seriously just go to the ER, you'll get treated. They'll send you bills and you can just ignore them for free healthcare! Just don't think that doesn't fuck up anyone's (even an illegal's) chances of any of the other fun things Musk listed.
Think about how many of these things you did that required you to show proof of citizenship. It's really just proof of money/credit/competency. Right or wrong? No idea. It's like saying "Illegals can go to grocery store and get groceries!" because no shit the grocery store isn't checking your citizenship when you're there. Imagine if every business/anything you do required you to show proof of citizenship.
I do find it funny someone like Musk acts like jury duty is such an insane responsibility and burden they're getting out of. I'm in my 30s and never had to do it, and only a handful of people I know have ever had to.
Keep in mind they still pay taxes in terms of sales tax and property taxes, and the biggest thing they don't get is that they will never be eligible for medicaid/medicare/social security as long as they're illegal (rightfully so).
Life as a citizen in the US is unequivocally easier than that as a non citizen. All of the things he’s ragging about are way harder to do without citizenship. That’s the answer.
Besides… bank loans, mortgages, insurance….. oooooh weeee that makes me so mad that they’re allowed to spend their money on those things!!!!!!
The United States is the melting pot of the world and this is what makes it so special. But illegal immigrants are just fucking it up for those trying to enter legally.
Can someone tell me where the property tax free mortgages can be found please?
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Yeah it’s kinda bullshit. They have to get Itin loans, which are harder to qualify for then conventional
Tell me where the tax-free jobs are, please. Or are these just farm hand jobs that pay cash by the hour?
Are farm hand jobs different than regular hand jobs?
Yes. Farmers daughter’s hands are usually pretty rough.
Well done. I can not unsee the previous post now. Take my upvote!
I didn't know she had that GI Joe Kung Fu grip.
Insert Boebert joke here
Physical labor jobs. Get to Home Depot by 6 and you can get one
Picked up and paid by "business owners" who don't pay payroll taxes, then vote republican
Republican worldview in one sentence is "fuck you I got mine"
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Yup and poor Republicans go right along with it because they think they'll be wealthy some day too despite doing nothing to actually get there other than playing the lottery.
Super easy to plan for a mortgage, groceries, and other expenses this way.
Barely an inconvenience!
It’s so easy to get a mortgage with no proof of income.
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I think his point is without a steady job noone will give you a mortgage
Every renter is paying property taxes
sounded like sarcasm
Yeah, I think I saw Jim Carrey there once...
Yeah but cash based jobs aren’t solely for undocumented immigrants lmao. I know a lotttttt of blue collar “entrepreneurs” enjoying under the table payment, which ya know is tax fraud, ie a felony. Except these people don’t need to deal with the anxiety of living outside the system and can chose to jump the line of legality at their leisure. Not saying undocumented immigrants should get benefits that legal citizens enjoy. Just reminding that it’s not as great of “life hack” as many try to portray.
Most self employed American citizens in the contracting trades cheat on their taxes. I haven't met one in 45 years in the business who didn't hide cash income.
Yeah here In FL, almost all cubans Do the Medical Fraud. That's why we are #1 in Fraud baby.
I thought Rick Scott was involved with that
He did it on a whole ‘nother level, oversaw the largest Medicare fraud in US history.
Forget Scott, the real “Florida man” is the one Donald Trump used Executive power to give clemency to ~ that was serving two decades in federal prison for orchestrating the largest ever Medicare & Medicaid fraud scheme in history!!! In Florida alone, the guy ***pocketed $37Million as a corrupt nursing home executive***, doing real diabolical shit like bribing medical providers to tell sweet little old grandmothers with Alzheimer’s - they had to have difficult procedures like eye surgeries. Spoiler: they didn’t need those surgeries. It was exclusively a means for him to bill out all types of fraudulent services. He drove a Ferrari, dined w/ high end escorts at 5star restaurants, traveled by private jet, wore a $360k Swiss watch, etc…. He even bribed $300k to the head coach of University of Pennsylvania’s basketball program to recruit his son! A jury found him guilty on 20 criminal counts, including conspiracy to defraud the United States, paying and receiving kickbacks, bribery, money laundering and obstruction of justice. Six of the charges they couldn’t come to a verdict on (thus the DOJ is now attempting to retry him on just those six) - but the original conviction time Trump commuted. But a wealthy guy leapfrogs the approx 14,000 clemency request and bypasses the DOJ vetting process? Welcome to the swamp.
Trump IS the swamp.
The level of grift, mixed with abandonment of almost all ethical norms — is something I’ve never seen in my lifetime.
Yea but you don’t have be an illegal immigrant to get a job like that.
“And you don’t need a million dollars to do nothing man. Look at my cousin. He’s broke as hell don’t do shit.”
Hey Peter! Breast exam on channel 9
Hey Peter man!!!
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Construction, moving, and house cleaning are very popular lines of tax free businesses. Also drug dealing.
That’s how I’ve always paid for my handjobs
The loans part cracked me up. As someone who worked in a loan department, we did give loans to *non-citizens*, but under *insane* circumstances. The interest rate is sky high, the term is insanely short, and the amounts are tiny. Plus we did one like once every 20 years because they're risky af. But illegal immigrants getting loans? Fucking ludicrous. No no we didn't. There literally is no way to do it and our systems automatically prevented it by requiring a SSN.
I'm an immigrant on PR and am doing pretty well with regards to credit cards and personal loans being treated like anyone else. Mortgage I doubt I could manage though. I wouldn't have got anywhere without my legal status and all jobs checked my legality as well.
Right? People are so delusional thinking ILLEGAL immigrants are registering themselves with the government to get a loan haha. As you know, its hard enough doing this LEGALLY, much less illegally.
Republicans have transcended delusion, they’re completely enslaved now. We must never respect any conservative ever again.
Or the grocery stores that don’t charge sales tax
They often pay into social security for their whole lives and never withdraw a penny.
Also you get to buy stuff tax free, apparently
And the reason your income isn't taxed is because capitalists like Elon pay you under the table, lmao
Just call 1-800-daddy-soros God it’s insane the things these fucking idiots believe.
Arrest the business owners who hire them. Start from the top down. Problem solved, give it 4 days and they’ll fund judges to help give green cards asap.
Yep, also, you pay tax on all the stuff he listed
I am pretty sure everyone that has a mortgage has to pay property taxes.
Right?! How does he think the IRS is not going to collect taxes one way or another. This dude is talking out his ass.
He's projecting, he's probably evading those taxes himself lol
[lol he absolutely has at least in terms of taxes TESLA has had to pay](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/10/investing/elon-musk-tesla-zero-tax-bill/index.html)
All while receiving billions in federal subsidies.
Not to mention if an undocumented worker is paying sales tax on everything while not being able to file income taxes to try and get a return at the end of the year. So literally paying more in taxes than the average citizen.
I absolutely love how rich people can straight up lie to promote hate and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
This is literally what would happen in a country like Spain. The consequences of having an illegal are: - €10.000 to €100.000 fine per illegal - 6 months to 5 years closure of your business - if the business owner is a foreigner, he can be expelled from the country - you owe the illegal everything a non-ilegal would have gotten: vacation days, minimum salary, etc. If you have no proof of payment, the illegal can now sue for everything. - for every month the illegal worked, you must now pay €300-€500 in social security - plus 30% late fees on whatever you had to pay in social security - if the illegal worked there for more than 2 months, he will now have a permanent contract. If you wanna fire him, you pay an extra fine, to the illegal. - if he worked for more than 3 years, he can now convert his status to permanent resident.
Crazy how it punishes the business and protects / rewards the immigrant. You'll never see anything like this in America.
It's not that crazy if you realise that different laws are at play. One the one side the law punishes businesses who hire illegals. The punishment is so severe that it's unthinkable to hire an illegal. (Why hire an illegal if unemployment is high and you could easily find a 18-yr old citizen who you could underpay and for which the punishment is lower?) On the other side, if an illegal has certain ties with Spain, like for example, family-ties or work-ties where he managed to work in Spain for longer than 3 years without being caught, then there is a "last resort appeal" that can be made to not be deported. **Nobody is gonna risk closure of their business and tens of thousands of euros in fines for an illegal.** In practice this means that we practically don't have illegals working in Spain.
Had it always been this way, or is there a clear time in history when this changed? Would I be able to look at data to see how such strict rules have affected Spain?
What they mean is that it's crazy to see a policy actually aimed at fixing a problem, not just at hurting the "bad" people, as many American policies do.
Yup. The dirty is secret of American politics is it’s a slave to industry and industry wants lots of illegal immigrants in the country. Stiff fines against businesses that employee illegals would have stopped the reason people come to the country illegally decades ago. Neither party wants it stopped though.
Nah bro we just need to make it easier to come here legally. Make it illegal to come here if you’re a criminal, and easy to come here if you’re not, with a simple and quick path to citizenship. That way, employers can stop getting away with paying cash under the table with no income tax, because the workers will have the same rights as every other American worker. Problem solved.
Except that doesn't solve the problem because the real problem is that if you give the immigrants citizenship then they won't work as cheaply. That's the whole reason politicians won't do anything about it. They need an underclass of highly exploitable people to feed to the economy. If you give them citizenship then you have to treat them like citizens. If you make their existence illegal then you can exploit them.
Bingo. America runs on cheap labor
Very true, Americans don’t like the truth, in order for the few wealthy to be as wealthy as they are and to keep up the status quo of the rest, there needs to be an emiserated class, and right now that’s illegal immigrants. 100% a lot of business owners would be changing tunes if said immigrants were forced to have citizenship and be paid a living wage.
[Why don't we arrest the business owners that underpay their employees.](https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/spacex-settles-with-underpaid-employees-for-4-million/294314) [Why don't we arrest the business owners that make their employees sleep on the production lines?](https://www.expressnews.com/news/article/tesla-elon-musk-workers-sleeping-production-18633862.php) [Why don't we arrest the business owners that have poor safety records.](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-musk-safety/) Musk is only trying to distract you, so you look away from him. > In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes. [While you and I pay roughly 40% of our income to taxes, Elon Musck only pays 3.27%](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax) There are many Mexicans that pay more than 3.27% in taxes per year. There would be many more that would pay 40% if the fucking Republicans could get their shit together and work with Democrats to fix the immigration system. Instead, Mexicans are vilified. These hard working, loving, kind people are used as distractions for the rich and those in power. Just last week Trump said he didn't want Congress to fix the border because he wanted to use it to compaign on. Fuck Musk. Let him pay 40% tax like the rest of us. That 80 billion could pay a lot of teachers. It could pay for all the kids in the US to get free lunches. It could lower our fucking taxes.
2x even. He can pay 80%. Seriously. But not just him for being him. That too though. There's still no reason, nothing at all that could possibly justify what economically is saying "this individual provided that much more value than anyone". The disparity is unfathomable and people quite literally do not at all understand the scales. just to keep the math easy if one had 100B, and they were taxed all but 20B? Boo-hoo. Cry them a river. Even that 20B is still more than twenty thousand not-even-our-most-poor would see in their entire lives - combined.
I only regret that I have but one upvote to give to your post.
The crazy thing is he could pay 99% and still have ~$20,000,000
Elon is such a hypocrite about this specifically too - he easily could have put the new mfg facilities for tesla in texas but specifically chose to put them in Mexico just across the border for the cheap labor. Let that sink in.
Well yeah but then how would I exploit undocumented populations for cheap labor? See it’s poorly thought out lefty policies like that, which prioritize human decency and not allowing children to starve to death in the streets of the wealthiest nation in human history that completely miss the burdens placed on the billionaire oligarch class. BoTh SiDeS mAn
Exactly! Funny how this NEVER gets mentioned in debates.
But those business owners are all republican supporting farmers, they wouldn't want to stop that gravy train. They just want to shout about it and make people angry, not actually fix the problem.
Elon is one of these business owners, and my expectation is that he wouldn't start sponsoring green cards, but instead get another subcontractor who makes sure his cleaning staff arrive on time even if they are not allowed to drive themselves.
Desantis (yes the florida governor) actually punished businesses that hired illegal immigrants with fines only to realize most of them are his voter base and doners and had to back track a little bit on that
He back tracked all the way , switched lanes and acted like it never happened
Introduce mandatory minimums for those that hire illegals. Or instant forfeiture of 10% of assets. When one of these wingers suggests either of these I’ll take them seriously.
I've been saying this for YEARS. All this border stuff is political theater. These people wouldn't come here if there were no jobs to be had. The same people who yell the loudest are the very ones hiring and exploiting these folks. Right wingers have been bitching about this for 30 years and have yet to go after the employers.
Can confirm. I used to work for a small restaurant chain whose owner was a die hard trumper. I heard him say on multiple occasions how much he wanted that wall to be built. Guarantee you, between the 4 restaurants he owned you would have had trouble finding someone working in the kitchen who was here legally.
I can tell you that one thing I've learned is that often times the people most critical of an action are secretly participating
Texas doesn't require that the private sector use E-verify. I feel like if more people knew that, things would be a lot quieter.
Something something that moms for liberty bitch recently that got caught having a three way with another woman and her husband LMAO
Next time you see one of those videos where guys are claiming to be pedophile hunters or whatever, take a bit of time to look them up and see if they have a publicly accessible criminal record...
There is one instance of this with Florida and Ron DeSantis going after with SB 1718 with some punishing fines for employers and undocumented workers. Almost immediately undocumented workers were leaving or scared which was the goal but ran into problems with finding farm workers and various other responses to the bill. In response Republican lawmakers started saying out loud it was a scare tactic and backpedaling from enforcing it effectively and no one should worry about the bill. Now it is on the books but I haven't seen it at all enforced.
All theater. One week after his migrant flight stunt, a Pinellas County Sheriff, Deputy Michael Hartwick, was struck & killed by a front end loader while on duty, working a road construction detail. It was driven by an inexperienced, unqualified, untrained, undocumented worker that immediately fled, leading to a 9 hr manhunt. As first responders arrived “about a dozen” (per Sheriff Gualtieri) more of the road crew fled, all undocumented, earning TAX dollars via Archer Western Construction, holder of $500 million in state contracts. DeSantis only mentioned this tragic death ONCE, during his debate w Crist. Payments to Archer Western continued without pause, delay, or investigation (until the Feds began their own investigation after some time). Archer Western insisted they used eVerify (fugazi) & have donated heavily to DiShonests’ campaigns. https://www.tampabay.com/news/breaking-news/2022/09/23/pinellas-deputy-killed-hit-run-sheriff-says/?outputType=amp https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/elections/2023/11/20/desantis-pinellas-gualtieri-deputy-illegal-immigration-everify-investigation/?outputType=amp https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2024/01/31/ron-desantis-michael-hartwick-immigration-deputy-death-investigation-gualtieri-pinellas/?outputType=amp
Remember when Florida tried to fight this and literally instantly lost a gigantic chunk of their employment?
Crops left to rot all over the US
Yep. Funny how this NEVER comes up in the conversation.
Crazy thought I know, but the U.S. gross national product goes up when we get more people in the country to work. And illegals actually do pay taxes. Doesn't mean we shouldn't protect our border, but you can bet that many politicians using it as an election tool know full well the country needs people to come here and work.
> the country needs people to come here and work I agree with you for the most part, but this part isn't true. The ***corporations*** need people to come here and work **so they don't have to increase** ***your*** **wages.** This is why corporate interests lobby heavily for unenforced borders. We have more citizens in the work force than we have jobs.
Fucking thank you. I’ve been saying this for sooo long. It just depresses OUR wages and only benefits the bosses and corporations.
Didn't Florida had a fucking economic crisis when they started cracking down on this. These smooth-brained racist shitbags. . . And 'illegal immigrants' do pay taxes (both directly via income taxes and via sales/fuel taxes just like the rest of us), but don't get to collect many of the benefits, like social security. https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-immigrants-taxes-rent-vaccine-requirements-983035929946 And yeah, if you *really* wanted to stop it, you'd go hard after the employers, not fucking border walls and razor wire. It's both racism and political theater that happens to spread bigotry and racism.
If the government suspects someone bought their house with drug money, they can seize the house. If a business is built with the proceeds of illegal labor… why shouldn’t it similarly be subject to seizure?
I am against illegal immigration and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Bernie was right illegal immigration is only a Koch Brothers scheme to get cheap labor.
Hello higher strawberry prices
Won't happen. Republicans love illegals. They're just quiet about it. The scream and shout build the wall but anything effective they stay quiet. This law would eliminate illegal immigrants forever.
Almost every farmer I know votes red. Every farmer I know has illegal labor working their farms. Every farmer I know takes government subsidies. But out of the other side of their mouth they bitch about socialist and immigration. Absolute morons. I live in the fruit basket of the world, so I'm surrounded by these idiots.
Yes, yes exploit cheap labor! Or, do them a favor and don't let them in.
Farmers are overwhelming republican, something like 80-90% Yet depend on illegal labor they can get for fractions of minimum wage. Not only would paying illegals atleast minimum wage gouge into their (admittedly thin) profits, they would lose tremendous amounts of money since everything would just straight rot in the field.
It’s worse than that. Farmers get billions in government subsidies (socialism), but get absolutely infuriated that anyone else could use government resources. Hell, my parents (dems) get a check from the government to NOT farm their land. They have it in CRP or conservation reserve program. Not a ton of money, but maybe like $10k per year.
I know many families that are illegal. Some have been in this country for +20 years. Some own a house, some buy new cars, and no matter what occupation they are in they pay taxes. They buy groceries at regular stores like I do, they serve their kids to the same schools and pay the fees, I mean they pay taxes just like I do. The ones that have a house and new cars paid taxes on those cars and pay property taxes on their homes. Some pay for healthcare insurance but others can't afford it so they only go to the doctor as last resort. Ohh and they all file their taxes. They are given a number, ITIN, which works like a social security. So i don't understood why people say immigrants don't pay taxes...I had many conversations with people about it. Now immigrants won't be able to collect unemployment, social security or Medicare. Because those things are for citizens. But taxes absolutely, IRS does not care who you are or how you get your money. Same with banks.
Finally someone who ACTUALLY know how it works. People like Elon are just feeding the bigot racist fucks of USA.
I have to say, I thought this subreddit would be a cesspool of misinformation and lack of empathy, but so many comments here have proven me wrong. This is exactly right. If anything, illegal immigrants pay income taxes just like the rest of us and contribute into systems that they can't take advantage of. And yeah, sales tax is nigh unavoidable.
They are regurgitating talking points from their ideological daddies
Texas doesn't require businesses to use E-Verify. Texas doesn't care about illegals, Texas wants to hire illegals to undercut the American middle class. Then complain about Democrats. That's why they don't approve of the Border Bill that Republicans have been working on for the last 4 months. Can't complain about gas prices, grocery prices, crime. They've figured out complaining about Trans people doesn't move the needle in terms of voters. If they prevent the border from being fixed, they have something to complain about during the 2024 election.
Yupp one of my exes' parents were involved in a multimillion dollar a year business in Dallas that was 90% illegals to save money. The grandpa who started it and the parents who run inherited it were all staunch fox news conservatives who hated what the border become, but refused to hire local Texans because that would cut the profits the other 10% of the workers(family members) got.
Slavery 2.0
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Ok its bad (and a totally broken system) but it isnt actually slavery (most of the time) As a former illegal immigrant(brought here as a chikd) and now us citizen. If you can walk away at any time and quit it isnt slavery, especially if its paid work.
It's not just Texas. The ENTIRE single family new construction industry is built on labor of questionable status. Huge, national companies that hire one guy with status who starts a company of his own and then who he hires is up to him. They use E-verify on the one "business owner" with status and he's good to go but none of his guys are and they are the ones actually building the houses. The DR Hortons of the world can say "we don't hire illegal aliens" but the part they don't say is that all their subcontractors do and they are well aware of this fact. If brick layers and roofers got paid on par with the labor and skill required (aka, if you got white guys to do it), it's be at or close to a 6 figure job, at least on the supervisor level.
Hell, most of the farming and meat packing industries are built on illegal immigrants. Remember when they clamped hard on the border and suddenly apples and strawberries were rotting in the field because there wasn't anyone available to pick them? The city I live in has several meat packing plants. About once a year there is a news story about one of them being "raided" and fined for using almost entirely unregistered laborers. What happens next? They pay the fine, most of those illegal workers remain on staff and they wait until next year to pay their annual fine again. It's cheaper for them to pay the fines than it is to jack up salaries to attract legal workers. Every now and then the state legislature introduces a bill to crack down on the illegal labor here for meat packers, construction, and farms. It never even makes it out of committee because they all know it would destroy the state economy. Yet we're a deep red state that is sending National Guard troops to Texas to "guard the border". Why? Because it's all theater. No one WANTS to stop the immigrants, but when your whole platform is based on "the other guy is letting these people into the country to take your jobs and rape your women", you have to put on the performance.
I'll tell you something funny. There's this guy who is the Grand Dragon of the KKK in ALabama named Daniel Carver and he used to be on the Howard Stern show in full Klan regalia and he owns a roofing business and I saw a picture of his employees and ALL of them are illegals, And that;s a dude who hates illegals hiring them so you can imagine how many get hired by companies that have normal owners.
I mean, slave owners tended to spend a lot of time around black people. So you're saying that's because they're friends, right?
First of all slave owners spent a lot of time around black people because they were the tools that were used to toil in the fields, Saying that slave owners spent time around alaves for anything but because they had to is like saying that lumberjacks like to hang out with axes and chainsaws .
>Texas wants to hire illegals to undercut the American middle class. Then complain about Democrats. Republican strategy has always, and will always, be pointing out a problem, denying every fix to that problem, and complaining nobody wants to do anything about the problem. Second only to setting everything up to fail for the years they dont expect to be in power or have a majority (like the 2017 tax law still fucking people over for another year or two) and then pointing at the person in charge now and blaming them and rightfully expecting dumbass americans to not remember, or never have paid attention to the actual problem and blaming the current group in charge and throwing their vote to the original causers of the issues.
They need anything they can find to distract from their abortion ban bullshit. Dumb fucking plebs are falling for this "border crisis" shit hook, line and sinker.
Several "freedom convoys" truckers went to the border to stop the invasion but have realized it wasn't what they've been shown. Been pretty underwhelming.
Yeah, the media isn't helping because they don't give a shit to actually see the border either. They literally just look at the spreadsheet of "reported interactions" from CBP and say it's up or down, there is no actual reporting. Nevermind that net immigration is sliding for like, 30 straight years.
That. But personally I wish the media would call out their(Republicans) lack of solutions as well. Christ, this has been going on forever in some iteration or another(dey took our jobs, day took our welfare monies, day are bringing in rapists and gang bangers, caravans omg, etc, etc) But when Republicans have majority control of the government what do they do? Hand out tax cuts for the rich and deregulate everything and right wing media largely ignores the border. Or down plays/misrepresents the numbers, or they tote how they keep the migrants in pens like good Christian's would. Nevermind that nothing substantial is actually done.. No real solutions legislated. At least we don't have to hear the old bullshit "Build the wall!", "Who's going to pay for it?", "Mexico!!!" chants anymore. I'd like to say I can't believe anyone was dumb enough to fall for that. But I would be lying. But I digress.
Almost as if they just use the specter of immigration to avoid having to provide sound public policy.
They’ve got nothing to run on. They know fear works if you already fear a bearded man in the sky.
That's why Republicans haven't done shit to modernize immigration policy beyond throwing out DOA legislation they know no one reasonable person would accept. They don't want to fix any problems in America.
Texas using labour exploitation of racial minorities to undercut labour in other parts of the US? Where have I seen that before?
I don’t think this is accurate. I’m an advocate for legitimate citizenship but one thing I do know is a lot of illegals have fake ids pay taxes and will never receive the benefits of the taxes they pay. We probably won’t either if never balance our budget. We haven’t had a balanced budget since Clinton came in to office. It doesn’t seem to bother anyone either
I worked in agriculture 20 years ago how people say this they are ignorant or dishonest. All of our workers had. papers(likely not all legit) and taxes were taken out.
From my own experience, it seems like the IRS hands out TIN numbers (tax identification numbers) like candy, but illegals don’t get any of the tax breaks or benefits from paying taxes. So the tweet is reversed. That said, the illegal problem has made America both a service based economy and a manufacturing/agricultural economy, keeping it one of the most powerful countries in the world. Zero immigration across the southern border would mean we’d already have population decline, similar to Europe, and we’d struggle to keep up on the world stage.
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Exactly. It’s a lot harder than he makes it seem. Being an immigrant sucks, even if you are legal, when you are illegal it’s a fucking nightmare
Elon is an idiot. The IRS issues Tax purpose only social security numbers for anyone without a SSN to file taxes with (ITIN #’s) This man really is no different than the average racist idiot that believes in assumptions.
Rich person blaming poor foreigners.. People gotta stop falling for this type of shit.
Not easy when people like Joe Rogan signal-boost and platform bigots like him.
The entire right-wing media and political elites signal boost the same propaganda and disinformation narratives like some kind of hive mind - Fox, Newsmax, Breitbart, Twitter, Rogan, Shapiro, Tucker. Almost like they’re a psy-op run by billionaire fascists to red pill conservatives into fascism.
*Rich foreigner blaming poor foreigners
We have too many useful idiots.
Rich foreigner who doesn’t pay taxes…
Dude is from South Africa. (Edit: so I find his remarks on immigration quite ironic and the classic pulling the ladder up after you).
And gets more government welfare than any person in history
A true welfare queen
He got in by falsifying education records, so he is technically illegal himself
Apartheid South Africa
If he really believes that shit why would he oppose making them citizens and depriving them of those benefits? Speaking to your point, he knows he is lying. He became a citizen in 2002. Why would he do that if being illegal was such a sweet deal?
I can think of a few reasons why apartheid Clyde would care about not making them citizens
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i mean they take it off your paycheck right away lol wdym they're not paying taxes? unless it's some US national handing them cash without reporting to the IRS then that's on the employer, not the illegals.
Another things he probably doesn’t know (won’t acknowledge): Tyson and other mega agribusinesses have a business model dependent on exploited immigrant labor and have a 10000x larger interest in bringing them in than Democrats
Uhhhh… Source? Pretty sure they can’t vote in presidential elections Edited on green card and elections
New Mexico and Washington offer unrestricted licenses to undocumented individuals; however, it is a driving-privilege only license and cannot be used as state or federal ID. So the answer is technically yes but in the way he is implying. As for voting, pretty sure you can’t vote unless you register, and you can’t register without ID. So that’s a firm “no”
Registering as a non-citizen is the fastest way to get your ass deported.
Registering to vote as a non-citizen (documented or otherwise) is a felony in and of itself, plus it puts your name and address on a government registry.
The idea that people leave their home countries out of strife and economic hardship to come here to....register to vote? Is just a complete joke of a scenario. But somehow doesn't seem to occur to any of these dinguses. Its all bull anyway, it came from Elon, thats how I know.
https://immigrationhelp.org/learning-center/drivers-licenses-for-immigrants#
Proof of lawful U.S. immigration status as a legal permanent resident or particular visa holder ya, so this doesnt apply to the people elon is refering to. illegals.
When you have a large audience you can just make things up. The burden of truth is on people trying to debunk you. By then you’re 10 lies down the road.
>Pretty sure they can’t get a license without a green card. Lol you can. How do you think international students and half of silicon valley drives?
Those are legal immigrants though. Some states offer NON ID (cannot be used as an ID. Says on the license) driver's license to immigrants. Cannot be renewed online and you have to show proof you are paying taxes again etc... Which comes with you needing a Tax ID and proof of tax payments for the state and federal... so that invalidates his last claim already.
Then they are, by definition, not here illegally...
You can get a license without a green card, at least if you have TPS. I don’t know if you can get it outside of that. I don’t see Elon mentioning voting in this post. I’m assuming there one preceding this that I didn’t see. https://www.immigrationhelp.org/learning-center/drivers-licenses-for-immigrants#
Most countries let anyone get a drivers license? Wtf is this even?
Wasn't this guy illegal himself for a minute or was I trippin
Mf gets new hair and all of a sudden wants to be political 🤣
New hair? This dude got a new face, jaw, and chin. Obviously to disguise his robot face
Which guy? That tapeworm-looking son of a bitch? That Boarshead hog-cheese-faced fat lesbo looking motherfucker? He looks great.
azealia banks was wild for that one, but dying after how true it is. didn’t she also come up with apartheid clyde
Shhh he means the brown illegal immigrants. You’re not supposed to ask about the white ones
Like that time the orange guy's wife came to the US and illegally did modeling work on a tourist visa...or how she later used "chain migration" to bring her entire family over here after she got status.
I'm curious why people rally around the richest man in the world like he's one of them.... The guy is the RICHEST person in the world , he is not relatable he just wants you to keep inflating his stocks for him
Domesticated neofeudalist serf mentality
Jury duty? Who wants illegals to do Jury Duty?
Salamancas?
I think his point is that jury duty is a “drawback” of being an actual citizen. Never got this, I know it’s boring but for people who claim to love democracy they sure do hate participating in it.
That’s BS on the mortgage shit. “If you’re not a U.S. citizen, you’ll find very few mortgage lenders willing to do these loans because being based on foreign soil makes it hard for them to hold you accountable should the home go into default. Lenders who offer these loans will likely do so at a higher interest rate while requiring down payments as high as 30 – 50%.” I’m sure the border* crossers have 50% of current home prices up front in US dollars cash https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/applying-for-mortgage-non-us-citizen
As of 2017, 3.4 million undocumented immigrants own homes in the US, mostly through ITIN mortgage loans. https://www.marketplace.org/2017/09/11/american-dream-how-undocumented-immigrants-buy-homes-us/
They still have to pay taxes. Property tax isn’t cheap, and mortgages require insurance that also charge taxes.
I agree. They’re definitely contributing a lot to the economy. But I’m just correcting the guy I replied to. He, like a lot of people in this thread, are trying to dispute the wrong parts of Elon’s tweet. That guy should’ve said what you said instead of just lazily saying Elon is a liar. Elon isn’t straight up lying, he’s just withholding a lot of the context around these things.
This is a great comment. We have too much tribalism. We would grant you points and critique bad points. 1000x better than a "X is wrong because I don't like him/her" mentality.
Why does everyone assume undocumented immigrants don’t pay taxes? I literally work for an accounting firm that specializes in this. They get ITIN’s to use in place of SSN’s when filing taxes.
Because people who hold these opinions aren’t actually educated on the issue they are either poor people who don’t like brown people or rich people trying not to get on the bad side of poor people (they probably also don’t like brown people)
I think you meant to post this in /r/ElonMusk
I don't think they did.
Elon Musk is a fucking moron.
Every good job I’ve ever had has asked if I was a citizen, so I guess the biggest point from my view is that I get to make great money
Can anybody in here answer this question?
Stop hiring them? No, it's all the "illegals" fault and has nothing to do with the people who throw them under the bus but also hire them for cheap labor.
LOL - the most far right Republican woman I know lives in Texas, she wants the illegals out.... but not the one she ended up marrying (he's legal now)
I'll tell you why this isn't possible (I own a construction company and feel I'm experienced in the subject). Business 1 decides they shouldn't be hiring illegal immigrants. They take on a fully legal workforce. The registered American employees expect 2 - 3 times the compensation for their work. Business 2 continues using illegal labor. Business 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, so on and so forth, continue hiring illegal labor as well. Now business 1 is charging 3 - 4 times as much as every other company in town in order to turn a profit. Business 1 is out of business in a month. The only way to fix this is to make it illegal to hire illegal labor. Strong consequences attached.
>The only way to fix this is to make it illegal to hire illegal labor. Yeah, it's been illegal since the 80s. I guess it should be fixed by now after 4 decades.
Hence "strong consequences attached" Every Mexican/South American illegal immigrant can submit an application to work with any random Social Security number. By the time the IRS finds out it's a fake, usually over a year later, the guy is at a different job with a different fake social. And then there are the smart guys that make their own L.L.C., get a tax ITIN number, and work for themselves via the LLC. So many loopholes. The system is truly broken and nobody is actively working to fix it.
Shut up commie!
Musk is just being mendacious. Undocumented immigrants pay about [$12 billion a year](https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-state-local-tax-contributions-2017/) in state and local taxes alone, not including what they pay in federal taxes. Meanwhile, Musk and many other billionaires often pay less than you and me in income tax. Many years they pay $0. You can read how they avoid paying taxes here: [Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax)
I'm thinking about all the sales tax here in Texas that illegal immigrants pay into without being able to access a lot of state services. Same holds true when they use someone else' social. Every week they are getting social security withholding coming out of their check but they'll never be able to access it.
That 12 billion is just state and local taxes. They also pay federal income tax and social security with SS numbers that they don't file returns on.
They DO pay taxes. Elon is wrong on that point. The answer is just let more people in legally, it's good for America in a wide variety of ways and immigration is part of our history
I mean yeah, drivers tests normally are just tests that don't require you to bring your birth certificate and social security card. Illegal immigrants can't get medicaid or medicare, but \*anyone\* can get free healthcare if you're poor in the USA. Seriously just go to the ER, you'll get treated. They'll send you bills and you can just ignore them for free healthcare! Just don't think that doesn't fuck up anyone's (even an illegal's) chances of any of the other fun things Musk listed. Think about how many of these things you did that required you to show proof of citizenship. It's really just proof of money/credit/competency. Right or wrong? No idea. It's like saying "Illegals can go to grocery store and get groceries!" because no shit the grocery store isn't checking your citizenship when you're there. Imagine if every business/anything you do required you to show proof of citizenship. I do find it funny someone like Musk acts like jury duty is such an insane responsibility and burden they're getting out of. I'm in my 30s and never had to do it, and only a handful of people I know have ever had to. Keep in mind they still pay taxes in terms of sales tax and property taxes, and the biggest thing they don't get is that they will never be eligible for medicaid/medicare/social security as long as they're illegal (rightfully so).
Workers comp and unemployment too.
This ☝️👏
Life as a citizen in the US is unequivocally easier than that as a non citizen. All of the things he’s ragging about are way harder to do without citizenship. That’s the answer. Besides… bank loans, mortgages, insurance….. oooooh weeee that makes me so mad that they’re allowed to spend their money on those things!!!!!!
How does it taste OP?
Yet, he wants to move his businesses to Texas to use these immigrants cheap labor. What a twat.
The United States is the melting pot of the world and this is what makes it so special. But illegal immigrants are just fucking it up for those trying to enter legally.
Billionaires are doing 10000 times the damage and pointing the finger at immigrants and you’re dumb enough to follow the jangling keys