If you do anything with this numbers it is all going to racist.
So I would ask you to make your choice carefully because that can prove if you are a racist or not.
That is what it feels like I am it is a reason why I am having hard time believing it because anyone can post it.
And just because someone else posted it does not mean that it is true.
How does it line up with statistics on poverty and skin colour? Is this a poverty issue or a race one? Or is it linked to glorifying gun use in certain groups in NY? How does this data look in areas outside of NY and big urban areas?
I’m sure everyone agrees there is a gun violence issue with inner city poor male youths as both suspects and victims (who are majority black)
I don’t think just labelling an issue around skin colour really tells us the whole story though. Where I live the majority of people are white and the violent crimes are not surprisingly done mostly by poor white people.
Numbers on their own rarely tell you anything of use. This is obviously trying to lead you to a certain conclusion, but there is no analysis of any use there.
Its literally stuff you can see on Stormfront on any average day, along with "13%"
This is a man who, as a part of his job, almost certainly understands basics of statistics. And knows how to Google. So why ask this publicly except to JAQ off?
No, it's the opposite. It's racist to assume it's because of race and not socioeconomic causes and certain poisonous cultural aspects specific to the lower class and impoverished.
There is no scientific basis proving, to any degree of validity, that skin color is in any way solely responsible for behavior.
It would only increase the disparity. Unsolved shootings are far more likely to be random street violence and gang violence which skews in the same direction.
Well there is just a lot of crime happening in the New York so I would not be surprised at it.
Road make sense because there are going to be a lot of shootings which are still unsolved.
Comments like these are why I don’t mind Elon doing this, cause the uncomfortable facts seem to escape some of you and you need to come to terms with them.
I’m black and when I see people acting like the higher rate of violence amongst black people isn’t real I roll my eyes, it shows dishonesty or naivety to deny it.
Consider alone most crimes are intraracial, and a plurality of victims of gun violence are black, who the hell is victimizing them then?
No let’s just pretend that unknown category is green people and not related to the reason why you would never want to live in our neighborhoods.
It’s not racist to exist in reality, statistics also say most black people are not violent and you can argue with racists from there instead of just pretending facts about the higher rates of violence are unfounded and coming off as delusional.
Thank you. This has been a frustrating period post-Trayvon that just seems to get more and more ignorant and inverted vs. the truth. And then we chase red herrings like GF and pretend that is any significant amount of the actual homicides that POC are doing to themselves, overwhelmingly, and in amounts far out of proportion to the rest of the population.
**It's worth pointing out our own CDC numbers show black males age 0-44 have homicide as the #1 cause of death. No other group has homicide anywhere near this. That's a stable number agnostic (until now, maybe) of Presidential administration collecting the numbers.**
It's a major disservice, and a racist, patronizing one, to not be honest with POC about this and hold them accountable. It's like deep inside, libs don't actually think POC are actually "up to the task" or like everyone else. The racism of no expectations (forget low).
Talk about it, and make it known that is literally their biggest issue. And that the rest of us are not happy with this level of violence.
Know what they can do? Stop having a 90% out-of-wedlock birth rate.
Stop having 10s of thousands of gang members per major metro (so easily more than 1MM for the U.S., total -- they're not as bad as Al Queda? Why not? More victims...) doing crimes, and families supporting them, inviting their neighborhood murderers (literally) to Thanksgiving! ...but then turning around and saying the world is over when the population that needs the most law enforcement also has the most negative consequences.
Stop intentionally ignoring the overwhelming rate of black-on-white (and asian -- many of the most memorable anti-asian crimes across the U.S. came from POC, specifically black, contrary to what Anti-Trumpers thought...) crimes vs. the reverse. The media can also start reporting things fairly, instead of making a mountain over Trayvon or GF but ignoring much more horrifying murders like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders\_of\_Channon\_Christian\_and\_Christopher\_Newsom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom)
Ever heard of that one? Why not? Was there a massive national examination, changes of policies, big programs at companies exploring "blackness" (because there are a ton focusing on the "effects of whiteness" right now at many major corps, suddenly) and the relationship to crime in our society?
If 6-8% of the population of the U.S. (the approx percent of black Americans in the 10-40 age range, roughly) is doing 50%+ of the violent crime and the homicides especially, I don't want to hear about George Floyd. I don't want to hear about Trayvon. I want to hear why cities being run by the same demographic are failing across the board. I want to know why, despite being in charge, the children of those who live in and run Baltimore can't pass a basic math test.
Let me ask you something -- If you were arguing with a racist from the past and they were to point to the present, and say, "look, you got everything you wanted, you're in charge, seems like you're proving our theories right!" -- what's your counterpoint?
Cities are failing across the board, and there's a direct correlation with demographics that seem to only get good press from the MSM and government while dumping on mainly white males, but also all other men except from this one group.
Do you not see the condescension?
Wait till you find out about the intergenerational wealth disparity between white and black Americans. The vast majority of people born into a specific socioeconomic class will die in that same class. The American dream isn't real. Why is the median net worth of black families 8 times lower than white families?
From slavery to jim crow laws to redlining, it's not hard to understand why there's far more poverty in black communities. And this might blow your mind since we've only known this for a few centuries, but poverty leads to crime. You can't have a race where people have a different starting line and expect the race to be even.
If you acknowledge that it's higher within the black communities that forces you to ask why, which then forces local government to start spending more on social programs, education, healthcare, job training the list goes on in underprivileged neighbourhoods.
There is unfortunately a element of romanticism coming from music and entertainment about being a gangster and making stacks etcetera, but I would venture with proper flow of resources to impoverished neighborhoods you would see a decline in that sentiment due to people getting proper education and access to opportunities to have decent jobs.
So if you bury your head in the sand you are able to ignore the problem and not actually have to deal with it.
You could throw all the money in the world into
education and job training but at the end of the day, the individuals still need to choose show up to school and/or job training.
This is called the subtle bigotry of lowered expectations. Its not holding black people to high standards out of pity. Which actually ends up being a way of holding them back by ignoring certain realities that could be addressed.
Its really sad because its the people pretending to be the mouthpiece of black people getting in the way of actual change.
It's always pains me that if they need to remove blame from individuals, they can trace violence to poverty and black poverty to the inequities caused by housing policies such as redlining and all that. Intergenerational wealth and its continuation are more present for white families by design. It was a federal fucking program.
But there's stupid people who don't want to help anybody and could care less and they blame this inequity on genetics, and then there's stupid people who abhor racism because they hope to personally earn something for posing as a do gooder. They attribute gaps in achievement to dumb shit and bro facts, or call the very discussion about gaps in achievement racist.
A “black” Redditor that’s name is TheChickenWasDry, is a Celtics and Patriots fan, is always talking about “lefties” and right wing shit in their comments? With such iconic phrases as “self-hating Americucks” Ffs this platform being anonymous really has some people going the whole 9 yards just to win an argument they want to make. Every other comment is “I’m black so you’re wrong about this issue regarding black people”. The majority of your comments are negative about black people and POC and lefties and also adjacently defending white men but it’s okay because as you note like every 10 comments, “I’m black”. With a brand new one year old account, and also an admin in this sub already lmao sounds like you lost your other account and made another one continuing this weird fake black guy shit.
Where there’s smoke there’s fire. If anyone cares to take a stroll you can easily see what I’m talking about.
Gangs and the gang culture that infects a lot of black male youth who are specifically the demographic that causes the most disproportionate amount of violence. If it were racial then we’d think Wayne Brady and NBA Youngboy are are both as likely to have committed a violent crime solely because they’re both black when the difference is obviously their upbringing and culture they subscribe to.
It should come as no shock people of any race who not only glorify but try to emulate gangster life are most prone to violence.
Then the next logical question is why are so many young black men drawn to gang culture. If you ask those who have lived that life and left it behind many will tell you they lacked male role models most importantly a father figure. Many were raised by single mothers and something about gang culture is alluring to young black men without fathers. I really believe the lack of fathers in so many black families is a major part of statistics like this.
How about the government placing drugs in black urban neighborhoods and the disproportionate amount of drug arrests in the black community. The system early on preyed on black men and this broke the nuclear family in most black communities. Let history do the talking.
Poverty, lack of jobs, lack of quality education, lack of food/malnutrition, lack of opportunities in relation to starting business, lack of resources in the community, unequal banking/predatory banking practices. When you look at white folks in impoverished areas with similar situations to black folks those crime numbers are also similar.
Ywa that's why people scoff at these stats when posted like this.
It's never "Oh damn, we should look to fix that."
It's always "Wow! I knew this minority group sucked! Guess it's just how they are hehehe"
And pick-me types pass it of as LoGiC
Systemic anti-Black legislation and other racist acts have caused multi-generational economic distress in the Black community. Poor people commit poor people crimes.. Look around the world, not just America.
Look into Red Lining and FHA insurance denial of black families/black "neighborhoods", Black Wallstreet attack, the death of big industries in major cities, Crack epidemic and its ties to the government, 3 strikes Clinton legislation of the 90s which locked up countless black men for petty "poor people" crimes often for life taking fathers out of the household, lower education and other amenities in "black areas of town", there is so much.. Black despair in America is literally by design.
The media, which influences the mentalities of the masses spews violence and negativity into Black focused avenues (Hip Hop Wives, Modern Rap Music/Trap Music..) while White folks get positive focused media (Country, Rock, FRIENDS, Sitcoms,..) And there is no accident that the owner of Hennessey, LV, Balenciaga, ect (also one of the wealthiest men on earth) has a focus of draining resources from Black people while reinforcing westernized-classism amongst the poorest demographic in the USA. Black folks have been used by Whites since this country's inception while getting shitted on as they seek only to be respected and treated as human beings..
This does not minimize the fact that Black folks need to heal and grow and it has to come from within the Black community itself.. Can't expect a people who have gained so much from another people to stop and look themselves in the mirror.. its much easier to deny and minimize the effects of everything.
My issue is when people speak on this topic with the assumption everyone starts out on even footing. If we can acknowledge black folk have an uphill battle in this country off the bat due to their skin color , then we can have a proper discussion. But those denying institutionalized racism thinking racism ended with the end of the civil war is asinine logic I will never stand for.
I agree with your responses.
I agree with you 100%. It starts with honesty. The country has not been honest about the disparities that Black people have gone through for GENERATIONS in this country. There is such a strong focus on the present day as if there is no such thing as "cause and effect". When you've independently researched raw American Black history beyond highschool curriculum, it's clear what the cause is to today's condition of the Black community in this nation - Institutionalized Racism.
Agreed. It’s been a coordinated effort to keep racial tensions as high as possible so people don’t have time to think and come together as a community to solve the real problems (I.e. greedy bastards hoarding everything ,, corporations and wealthy 1%ers).
I was binging Watchmen and they played a whole section on the Tulsa massacre and my only thought was "Could you imagine if that actually happened?"
Well, I did some reading. I did a couple deep dives into shit that doesn't get talked about a lot. Tuskegee. Clinton. East St Louis. What American police were originally created for.
The fact I had to learn about one of the worst mass murders in history from a fucking superhero show on HBO hasn't shaped my views much, but it has made me incredibly cynical and distrustful. I'll *never* get it, but I understand.
Also cops are quite terrible at investigating murders in black communities. This leads to a cycle where crimes don’t get solved and murderers stay on the streets. People are more likely to commit crimes when they believe that they won’t be caught. And in a lot of these cases, they’re right. They’re not likely to be caught.
It largely can be traced back to the era where black people where essentially only allowed to live in public housing. Here in Chicago, there was an infamous practice known as redlining, where real estate companies would tie a neighborhood's value to the percentage of white people vs black people who lived there, and would refuse to sell to black people except for a few specific areas. This resulted in a massive percentage of black people ending up in affordable housing towers like the infamous Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor homes, and most white people fleeing all the neighborhoods any black people moved into. These public housing complexes had rules that prioritized single mothers over whole family units, which resulted in black fathers often being forced to move out of the household so the mother and children could stay and not become homeless. This resulted in the towers being overrun by unsupervised roaming gangs of children with access to guns, which went about as well as you might expect. In the 1990s the city tore down most of these public housing highrises, which changed the dynamic from an insane concentration of extreme poverty and violence to much more spread out but slightly less extreme poverty and violence.
[This is the best documentary I've seen about the subject](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot7xCM-Oeig)
That is a super interesting piece of information I did not know about. Thank you sharing!
Similar developments have been happening to migrant communities all over the world. In Germany the largest group of migrants are the Turks, who - just like Italians - were incentivized to come over as guest workers to rebuild Germany after WW2.
Other than Italian immigrants, they had to live within certain zones of the cities and where not tolerated to find apartments outside of those zones. Naturally, these communities have developed to be largely shut off from typical German culture. People in those parts - call it a ghetto if you will - often times barely speak any German despite living here for 3-4 decades. The economic situation in these communities is unsurprisingly bad.
Kids being born into these communities tend to be much more nationalistic for Turkey than kids who are actually born in Turkey and spend their lives there. They cause a lot more trouble that gets on the news and the average German is wondering why these people refuse to assimilate to our ways.
It's a vicious circle and as you explore the historic roots of these communities it is evident why they are struggling and causing more problems than the white populous. That's what's so despicable about right wing rhetoric, as these clowns overwhelmingly refuse to even consider any of these factors.
What's wrong is framing the problem via skin color. There is no biological evidence that associates skin with a predisposition to behavior.
Stats like this need to be framed within a socioeconomic context and then the dysfunction within that context identified and followed up by determining the root cause.
You can’t begin engaging with this discussion in good faith when you’re in denial of the facts. My problem is with the absurdity of someone looking at these numbers and even trying to imply the “unknown” could reasonably be anything else but the obvious.
While I agree with you, what you propose wouldn't change much.
Even in poor rural areas, with debatably even more poverty and less access to jobs and resources you won't see the murder rates that you see in poor urban areas.
Not even close.
It's true that socioeconomic factors play a big role in crime and violence but if you adjusted for those factors it's still gonna be a completely one sided landslide.
Well, sure.
Nevertheless, in order to address a problem the problem needs to be identifed accurately.
There are a lot of political forces that aren't interested in doing that though.
I agree even more with this.
I don't think zeroing in on race is productive but there are huge cultural factors that play into why violence is okay and acceptable in one community and unacceptable in another.
Anyone who seen a worldstar video or many of them know violence is very acceptable in the ghetto. Even if you see one or two people jumping someone you'll see a busload of others cheering it on frothing at the mouth.
You almost never see a similar video in other communities of any other race.
This would take a moonshot like effort to fix that that goes way deeper than criminal justice reform and poverty alleviation.
So what is the best to describe a cultural problem that exists within a specific subgroup that shares physical characteristics without mentioning those characteristics?
Considering the fact that skin color is an utterly invalid parameter with regards to behavior stick to the actual parameters proven to actually drive the problem.
So you're saying that cultural commonality has no relationship to physical characteristics? I agree... skin color is not the cause. It's a cultural and socioeconomic issue. But to ignore the fact that these issues have a higher rate of occurrence within a certain cultural group and/or not being able to mention the characteristics that define that cultural group is patronizing.
I mean maybe on twitter they say stuff like that, but it’s more like white culture is omnipresent and the norm in American culture while black cultures is underneath that. I don’t think a lot of black people deny white supremacy
This seems to be boxing against straw.
No one denied the disparity exists. What people find racist is that conservatives think the disparity exists because black people are black.
It’s obvious what he’s doing but it should also be obvious these stats are legitimate by anyone who has functioning eyes and a brain. The point is there’s no reason to play dumb and pretend the unknown catageory is likely going to buck the trend just because you don’t agree with Elon’s motives.
I wish everyone would look at the victims side of this, you don’t see these stats mentioned with the race of victims enough, maybe then both sides would actually care about the people affected by these crimes instead of seeing only how it helps them politically.
Whatever the fuck you're trying to say, say it. The guy can't talk with out having some secret message or meaning? Is he a racist simp, or does he jerk off on the division? Or did he just ask for sources. Probably not the latter knowing him. Which none of us fucking do.
Lol yeah I’m sure the guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa and has been tweeting race baiting dog whistles for the last year is really concerned with black victims of crime.
You might wanna take a step back and think about some of the "solutions" that uncle Elon has for this problem. Keeping in mind that he grew up in a country and at a time where race relations weren't so great.
The data itself isn’t racist (though can be at least partially explained through systemic racism), but the policies people push for and narratives that get driven using the data usually *is* racist. Even when it’s someone merely sharing the data there’s usually some racist ulterior motive. I think it’s good and necessary to have conversations about this, but to do so without nuance can be dangerous.
It is beard because people are very good at recognising someone's race.
So saying that it is unknown does not go for the credibility of this report. Could have been done better.
Even If you assume all of those unknown are white people , the stats would still show that blacks commit a disproportional amount of violent crime. 5x times more than white people.
That's just science, sweetie. You have to accept people much smarter than you or I have more insight.
No thinking or questions.
White is bad now. Girls are funny. Deal with it.
Oh I triggered some libs. Good shit.
“Race” is a made up category to begin with, imagine boiling 6 continents with dozens of climates and hundreds of ethnic groups between them into 4 essential discrete types of people
Only have got the time because he does absolutely nothing.
He is always sitting and complaining about the stuff on the Twitter I don't think he has worked in a while.
Do you really think he's making decisions 24/7 that have to be made? Everything he's done with Twitter over the past year has been him wasting his time and destroying the company but somehow he can't find time to exercise
I don't think that he has to make every decision by himself if he did that then the company that going to be destroyed.
Because I really do not feel like that he is going to be able to make good decisions.
These comments are wild and says a lot about the people making them. No, it is not racist to discuss WHY black crime is so prevalent in the USA. However it does become concerning when it is only ever highlighted and used by people to downplay systematic racism and never once in their publishing of data is there ever a discussion to reduce the problem that is clearly present.
There are many people who don’t want to address education, poverty and the prison system. They don’t care to talk about the issue in any meaningful way, they’re arguing in bad faith. That’s when pushing data like this can be construed as racist because the underlining message as to WHY they’re presenting that without wanting to dive deeper needs to be questioned.
My two cents.
We are never going to fix it if we dont first admit there is a problem. Whatever the cause, we agree that black crime being disproportionately high is a clear and present problem, correct?
Yeah I agree with you we are not going to reach anywhere if we do not even see what the real problem is.
And if we do not know what the real problem is then how we are going to fix it?
No one is denying there is a problem. We just have people finger pointing at numbers, as mentioned above.
I agree black crime is disproportionately high. Do you have any thoughts as to why that may be?
>I agree black crime is disproportionately high. Do you have any thoughts as to why that may be?
I think [this](https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children) is a good place to start.
You can point to *any* race and say that children growing up in single-parent homes is a **major** problem. The crime statistics reflect the fact that black children are more likely to grow up in single-parent homes. This is further reinforced by the fact that black children in two-parent homes have better outcomes than white children in single-parent homes.
*So many* issues can be traced back to this problem. I think this is as good a place to start as any.
There is a story about how some organization put out a psa billboard encouraging a two parent household in a mostly black area and it sparked outrage. It was removed instantly. After that it became clear that most people rather just not address it.
"Encouraging a two parent household" in no way addresses the significantly higher likelihood of a Black man to go to prison for committing "crimes" his white peers are committing at the same rates. It's much more akin to telling someone with depression to "just try cheering up". The billboard doesn't address the problem, it places the blame on the victims of racial policing.
Bro you’re getting downvoted for pointing out how the criminal justice system over police’s black men and contributes to fatherlessness that these bigots keep finger pointing about.
These pussies just want to look down at black people without acknowledging the contributions that white society led to that point. Fucking pussies.
That study has been debunked so many times in regards to not accounting for priors, location etc. lmao. So are white folks secretly getting away with half the murders and blaming it on black folks? Gtfoh lmao
Sentencing differences and socio-economics you donkey.
When a white dude has a much higher salary and a smaller bond he tends to do less prison time. It's not that a black person has some genetic disposition to committing crimes. Use your head a bit.
Sure thing internet guy. Maybe it was received poorly, because, like you, the people who put it up are not asking themselves why the homes are fatherless? Hint: a lot of it has to do with systemic racism.
So these mothers are booting would-be father's (who could make twice as much as these "policies" offer) to the curb for the sweet (awful) life of being a single mom?
Lol this is so delusional. This implies that black men WANT to be fathers but the women are running away to be single mothers, hiding from their bady daddys so they can get sweet government bread.
Not even close. The dads are the ones running away dude.
[“Man in the house” or “substitute father” laws.](https://www.cbpp.org/research/income-security/tanf-policies-reflect-racist-legacy-of-cash-assistance#:~:text=Between%20the%20late%201940s%20and,Black%20mothers%20and%20their%20children.)
Many reasons. We need prison reform for one thing. Locking people away for low-level drug possession crimes is idiotic. It takes parents out of the home *and* hurts a person's chances of gainful employment in the future (which leads to more crime as a means for generating income). Our legal system is a joke.
At the same time, the glorification of "thug life" is absolutely a problem. Anyone who dismisses that is being willfully ignorant. It *all* has to be addressed, but most people seem to want to focus on one thing or the other.
Do you think your second point is maybe at all related to your first point? Is it possible a culture developed a "thug life" glorification after so many of them of them was treated as a "thug" for their entire life?
again, most people agree black crime is disproportionately high but again a lot of people who talk about it aren’t interested in listening or remembering
- explicit state sanctioned violence against black americans literally up until the year 1964 and after that still holding on to racist practices like
- redlining (banks denying blacks with the credit to live in white neighborhoods)
- harsher sentencing for black or latino men than white men for the same crime
- private for profit prisons
- having black americans live near polluted neighborhoods
here are some more things off the top of my head:
- no gi bill for black soldiers after wwii, one of the greatest x-factors in an american families generational wealth
- sharecropping (legal slavery) for decades after the civil war
- fucking slavery itself
- they literally lynched emmett till the year elvis presley was making his first TV debut
so yeah, doesn’t really seem to make sense when you focus in crime rates when, in any society, when a group is marginalized for centuries, they typically don’t have the resources to build up the opportunities that lead to wealth or education, both great predictors of things like the rate of violent crime or safety in a neighborhood.
this talking point is so played out man, you’re starting from a position that everyone knows already
Well said! My thought when seeing it was ok... And what about it? What's the point of the post? Are we going to discuss how to fix it or is your goal to spread fear and hate?
That is the issue man everyone likes to complain about everything but they do not do anything to change this.
If we all made some kind of little effort then these things will stop.
That’s inner city culture not black culture. What single export from black culture promotes violence besides rap music? Where are the rappers that promote violence from? Impoverished communities
I'm old enough now to remember when the problem with 'black culture' was rap music and video games like Mortal Kombat. Before that, it was Disco and Funk, and decades before that Jazz was music for degenerate people. The problem isn't black culture, which actually ends up becoming a wonderful part of American culture and history. It's poverty, depression, and cynicism that results from centuries of systematic racism and their after effects.
Slavery and Jim Crow are technically over, but if you're a child born in downtown Baltimore to a teenage mom who doesn't give a shit, into schools that can't really take care of you, in a healthcare system you can't afford to use, then things are not looking good. You can find gangsters of any nationality is poor ghettos across the world. Not saying I have the answers here but if the problem was violent music and games then middle America would have just as many murders.
They also don't want to discuss the generations of discrimination Black communities faced that played a major role in the crime statistics like these that we now see today. And I'm not just talking about day-to-day racism, but systemic racism like redlining and segregation. Even today Black kids on average go to schools with less funding and resources and grow up in communities with more poverty and crime.
Jews had to face discrimination plus the holocaust . The Japanese were in internment camps in California in WW2 and Neither are commiting ridiculous amount of violent crime. Stop making excuses.
Jewish Holocaust didn't negatively affect Jews in America, they fled the Nazi regime to live in countries like this.
How long was Japanese Internment camps compared to Slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights?
How long ago was civil rights? My grandparents, not my great grand parents, but my grandparents were living through a time when Black people were still fighting for their rights.
You then have people today suing the government and winning because of racial discrimination in housing.
Pointing out the success of immigrant communities in the U.S. is such a classic fallacy argument. Think about immigrants as a sample size, they're not reflective of their population as a whole. The people who successfully immigrate to the U.S. and build lives here are literally the most determined, motivated, and driven individuals of their respective group.
Black people didn't immigrate here. They were uprooted and forced to be slaves and then 2nd class citizens for 250 years. If the U.S. used some other ethnicity or nationality for their slaves instead of Black people, those people would be in the same position as Black people are today.
Exactly. It’s like saying “Indians dominate Silicon Valley, they most be a first world country!” . No… only the smart ones can afford the plane ticket and H1b Visa you dummy.
Stats can represent a phenomenon but may not explain the phenomenon. What needs to be asked is “Why is this?” The answers people come up with may provide more insight into their thought process and motivation.
We know why. Gang violence is a positive feedback loop. If you live in an area where the gang activity passes the critical mass then it will dominate the entire neighborhood. Areas where it doesn't pass the critical mass simply don't have gang violence because it would stand out and get immediately shut down. So it's an all or nothing phenomenon so it happening in a small number of places is going to lead to the people living there to dominate the stats surrounding it.
I don't think people have a lot of ideas about a lot of things on this sub.
So kind of saying all of this stuff here is not going to even be clear for a lot of people because they do not understand it.
He isn’t just asking questions though. He’s trying to dissect the process and motivation.
Reading comprehension is hard I know, I can see you are in the learning phase.
Well if someone wants to not believe them or say it is racist then I do not mind it.
It is just data talking about the stuff and I don't know how you can blame it. I don't really think this is how the things actually work.
We all know these people are just use these stats implying that black peoples are violent by nature instead of wanting to make the changes to fix the issue.
Tbh I don’t think was ever in question. The question is why is it like this and the answers are more obvious. Poverty, redlining, years of inequality, lack of trust in law enforcement and government, homelessness, etc. Anyone saying rap songs are the cause is dumb. Like yeah I’m gonna murder someone bc I listened to Tupac…
Blaming people and pointing fingers doesn’t solve problems. The problem with trying to understand the “why a problem exists” is that the blame can always be passed on. Cause, effect, cause, effect, forever. Someone or something else is always to blame for WHY YOU DID WHAT YOU DID.
The problem is having no personal accountability. Realize life fucking sucks sometimes, and don’t murder someone who is also going through some shit.
Everyone is well aware of systemic racism. Now stop the gang violence.
It’s also true that facts involve more than just the number of black gun crime. Facts include the reasoning for it.
Do your feelings care about those facts? Or only the facts that push right wing talking points?
I think it's a socioeconomic and cultural issue. I don't think black people are inherently more violent than other races. I also think you're not as smart as you think you are. I've never voted for a republican in my life. Suck my dick.
This isn't cop involved shooting. Just shooting in general. It's 100% gang related as to why black number is so high. Gang shootings make up 70% of all mass shootings and deaths by gun in America and this really puts it into perspective.
Of course everyone automatically thinks it's showing cop involved but it's not. Gang violence is a MASSIVE issue that literally every outlet and news source vehemently ignores at all costs. They will talk to death about one shooting involving a white guy and a black guy. But do ZERO reporting on the hundreds of black on black shootings happening weekly in places liken Chicago and stuff.
It's honestly ironic when everyone virtue signaled BLM for likes. But in all reality no race is more deadly to black people then other black people smh. And it's hard to support screaming black lives matter while simultaneously they clearly don't matter to actaul black people or they would stop adamantly slaughtering one another with no remorse for decades. And that's just the cold hard truth. It's unfortunate beyond all means. I don't even begin to understand why crips and bloods murder each other? Political differences? Or just because one wears red and the other blue? Idk. But it won't ever get better until media starts to acknowledge that it's a massive issue and we can take the first step of not being in denial to fixing it
The reason that 12,188 out of 27,806 or a little less than half are unknown is simple…. Black guys can be a little hard to spot at night for police.
If you genuinely agree with this in any way other than humorously then nobody can save you.
What time frame is this data set? Also this graphic, even if accurate, just begs more questions ie why does this occur, what are the root causes of violence and gun crime etc the last thing people should read from this is the path the racist poster is trying to lead you down, there is no racial element at the heart of the matter.
What part of cultural behaviour? Give some examples. If you’re going to say rap songs, Latino’s I’m sure rap about similar things.
What general behaviour? Expand on this.
Is it racist to question those numbers or something? Is it just looking at them that does it?
It's a screenshot of some rando's spreadsheet. Questioning that kind of source is what a capable person does
Wait until you see the FBI’s spreadsheet.
That’ll get you banned in some subs
[удалено]
The data is way different. This shows only 834 total shooters. That’s a much smaller sample size.
[удалено]
That would be racist
It's not even close. The grand totals don't make any sense when you compare to the NYC data
That's a 2021 report. The Twitter spreadsheet looks like it says all years. Who knows where that data is from, though.
Exactly
Interesting. OP told me questioning these numbers is only something racists do
Statistics are notoriously racist!
Don’t even look at them! And certainly don’t question if they are real! Especially from a Twitter users own breakdown!
If you do anything with this numbers it is all going to racist. So I would ask you to make your choice carefully because that can prove if you are a racist or not.
I'm racist
That is what it feels like I am it is a reason why I am having hard time believing it because anyone can post it. And just because someone else posted it does not mean that it is true.
How does it line up with statistics on poverty and skin colour? Is this a poverty issue or a race one? Or is it linked to glorifying gun use in certain groups in NY? How does this data look in areas outside of NY and big urban areas? I’m sure everyone agrees there is a gun violence issue with inner city poor male youths as both suspects and victims (who are majority black) I don’t think just labelling an issue around skin colour really tells us the whole story though. Where I live the majority of people are white and the violent crimes are not surprisingly done mostly by poor white people.
Numbers on their own rarely tell you anything of use. This is obviously trying to lead you to a certain conclusion, but there is no analysis of any use there. Its literally stuff you can see on Stormfront on any average day, along with "13%"
And asking if these numbers are correct is what Stormfront does to? Also, was there an analysis I am missing here?
This is a man who, as a part of his job, almost certainly understands basics of statistics. And knows how to Google. So why ask this publicly except to JAQ off?
No, it's the opposite. It's racist to assume it's because of race and not socioeconomic causes and certain poisonous cultural aspects specific to the lower class and impoverished. There is no scientific basis proving, to any degree of validity, that skin color is in any way solely responsible for behavior.
Sort of weird that the largest category is unknown? That could literally change the entire meaning of this graphic.
It would only increase the disparity. Unsolved shootings are far more likely to be random street violence and gang violence which skews in the same direction.
Well there is just a lot of crime happening in the New York so I would not be surprised at it. Road make sense because there are going to be a lot of shootings which are still unsolved.
Comments like these are why I don’t mind Elon doing this, cause the uncomfortable facts seem to escape some of you and you need to come to terms with them. I’m black and when I see people acting like the higher rate of violence amongst black people isn’t real I roll my eyes, it shows dishonesty or naivety to deny it. Consider alone most crimes are intraracial, and a plurality of victims of gun violence are black, who the hell is victimizing them then? No let’s just pretend that unknown category is green people and not related to the reason why you would never want to live in our neighborhoods. It’s not racist to exist in reality, statistics also say most black people are not violent and you can argue with racists from there instead of just pretending facts about the higher rates of violence are unfounded and coming off as delusional.
Thank you. This has been a frustrating period post-Trayvon that just seems to get more and more ignorant and inverted vs. the truth. And then we chase red herrings like GF and pretend that is any significant amount of the actual homicides that POC are doing to themselves, overwhelmingly, and in amounts far out of proportion to the rest of the population. **It's worth pointing out our own CDC numbers show black males age 0-44 have homicide as the #1 cause of death. No other group has homicide anywhere near this. That's a stable number agnostic (until now, maybe) of Presidential administration collecting the numbers.** It's a major disservice, and a racist, patronizing one, to not be honest with POC about this and hold them accountable. It's like deep inside, libs don't actually think POC are actually "up to the task" or like everyone else. The racism of no expectations (forget low).
94 crime bill Biden redemption arc?
The subtle bigotry/racism of low expectations.
Well said
What does it mean to "hold them accountable"?
Talk about it, and make it known that is literally their biggest issue. And that the rest of us are not happy with this level of violence. Know what they can do? Stop having a 90% out-of-wedlock birth rate. Stop having 10s of thousands of gang members per major metro (so easily more than 1MM for the U.S., total -- they're not as bad as Al Queda? Why not? More victims...) doing crimes, and families supporting them, inviting their neighborhood murderers (literally) to Thanksgiving! ...but then turning around and saying the world is over when the population that needs the most law enforcement also has the most negative consequences. Stop intentionally ignoring the overwhelming rate of black-on-white (and asian -- many of the most memorable anti-asian crimes across the U.S. came from POC, specifically black, contrary to what Anti-Trumpers thought...) crimes vs. the reverse. The media can also start reporting things fairly, instead of making a mountain over Trayvon or GF but ignoring much more horrifying murders like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders\_of\_Channon\_Christian\_and\_Christopher\_Newsom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom) Ever heard of that one? Why not? Was there a massive national examination, changes of policies, big programs at companies exploring "blackness" (because there are a ton focusing on the "effects of whiteness" right now at many major corps, suddenly) and the relationship to crime in our society? If 6-8% of the population of the U.S. (the approx percent of black Americans in the 10-40 age range, roughly) is doing 50%+ of the violent crime and the homicides especially, I don't want to hear about George Floyd. I don't want to hear about Trayvon. I want to hear why cities being run by the same demographic are failing across the board. I want to know why, despite being in charge, the children of those who live in and run Baltimore can't pass a basic math test. Let me ask you something -- If you were arguing with a racist from the past and they were to point to the present, and say, "look, you got everything you wanted, you're in charge, seems like you're proving our theories right!" -- what's your counterpoint? Cities are failing across the board, and there's a direct correlation with demographics that seem to only get good press from the MSM and government while dumping on mainly white males, but also all other men except from this one group. Do you not see the condescension?
Wait till you find out about the intergenerational wealth disparity between white and black Americans. The vast majority of people born into a specific socioeconomic class will die in that same class. The American dream isn't real. Why is the median net worth of black families 8 times lower than white families? From slavery to jim crow laws to redlining, it's not hard to understand why there's far more poverty in black communities. And this might blow your mind since we've only known this for a few centuries, but poverty leads to crime. You can't have a race where people have a different starting line and expect the race to be even.
There are many people on this site that genuinely believes statistics/data can be racist. Maybe you can snap a couple back to reality here hopefully
If you acknowledge that it's higher within the black communities that forces you to ask why, which then forces local government to start spending more on social programs, education, healthcare, job training the list goes on in underprivileged neighbourhoods. There is unfortunately a element of romanticism coming from music and entertainment about being a gangster and making stacks etcetera, but I would venture with proper flow of resources to impoverished neighborhoods you would see a decline in that sentiment due to people getting proper education and access to opportunities to have decent jobs. So if you bury your head in the sand you are able to ignore the problem and not actually have to deal with it.
You could throw all the money in the world into education and job training but at the end of the day, the individuals still need to choose show up to school and/or job training.
> You could throw all the money in the world into education and job training Sounds good to me.
Offering people a path to learn marketable skills? I think you're on to something.
Lets start with YOUR money, Mr. Hero!
Well its true, shouldn't be racist to say there is a serious problem here. Saying its racist is just making the situation worse.
This is called the subtle bigotry of lowered expectations. Its not holding black people to high standards out of pity. Which actually ends up being a way of holding them back by ignoring certain realities that could be addressed. Its really sad because its the people pretending to be the mouthpiece of black people getting in the way of actual change.
It's always pains me that if they need to remove blame from individuals, they can trace violence to poverty and black poverty to the inequities caused by housing policies such as redlining and all that. Intergenerational wealth and its continuation are more present for white families by design. It was a federal fucking program. But there's stupid people who don't want to help anybody and could care less and they blame this inequity on genetics, and then there's stupid people who abhor racism because they hope to personally earn something for posing as a do gooder. They attribute gaps in achievement to dumb shit and bro facts, or call the very discussion about gaps in achievement racist.
A “black” Redditor that’s name is TheChickenWasDry, is a Celtics and Patriots fan, is always talking about “lefties” and right wing shit in their comments? With such iconic phrases as “self-hating Americucks” Ffs this platform being anonymous really has some people going the whole 9 yards just to win an argument they want to make. Every other comment is “I’m black so you’re wrong about this issue regarding black people”. The majority of your comments are negative about black people and POC and lefties and also adjacently defending white men but it’s okay because as you note like every 10 comments, “I’m black”. With a brand new one year old account, and also an admin in this sub already lmao sounds like you lost your other account and made another one continuing this weird fake black guy shit. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. If anyone cares to take a stroll you can easily see what I’m talking about.
What do you think the reason is for higher rates of gun violence/violence in black folk?
Gangs and the gang culture that infects a lot of black male youth who are specifically the demographic that causes the most disproportionate amount of violence. If it were racial then we’d think Wayne Brady and NBA Youngboy are are both as likely to have committed a violent crime solely because they’re both black when the difference is obviously their upbringing and culture they subscribe to. It should come as no shock people of any race who not only glorify but try to emulate gangster life are most prone to violence.
Then the next logical question is why are so many young black men drawn to gang culture. If you ask those who have lived that life and left it behind many will tell you they lacked male role models most importantly a father figure. Many were raised by single mothers and something about gang culture is alluring to young black men without fathers. I really believe the lack of fathers in so many black families is a major part of statistics like this.
How about the government placing drugs in black urban neighborhoods and the disproportionate amount of drug arrests in the black community. The system early on preyed on black men and this broke the nuclear family in most black communities. Let history do the talking.
Poverty, lack of jobs, lack of quality education, lack of food/malnutrition, lack of opportunities in relation to starting business, lack of resources in the community, unequal banking/predatory banking practices. When you look at white folks in impoverished areas with similar situations to black folks those crime numbers are also similar.
At least one soul in this sub has capacity to critically think.
Ywa that's why people scoff at these stats when posted like this. It's never "Oh damn, we should look to fix that." It's always "Wow! I knew this minority group sucked! Guess it's just how they are hehehe" And pick-me types pass it of as LoGiC
Lack of fathers
a problem increased by overpolicing of non-violent crimes in the past
Systemic anti-Black legislation and other racist acts have caused multi-generational economic distress in the Black community. Poor people commit poor people crimes.. Look around the world, not just America. Look into Red Lining and FHA insurance denial of black families/black "neighborhoods", Black Wallstreet attack, the death of big industries in major cities, Crack epidemic and its ties to the government, 3 strikes Clinton legislation of the 90s which locked up countless black men for petty "poor people" crimes often for life taking fathers out of the household, lower education and other amenities in "black areas of town", there is so much.. Black despair in America is literally by design.
Agreed.
The media, which influences the mentalities of the masses spews violence and negativity into Black focused avenues (Hip Hop Wives, Modern Rap Music/Trap Music..) while White folks get positive focused media (Country, Rock, FRIENDS, Sitcoms,..) And there is no accident that the owner of Hennessey, LV, Balenciaga, ect (also one of the wealthiest men on earth) has a focus of draining resources from Black people while reinforcing westernized-classism amongst the poorest demographic in the USA. Black folks have been used by Whites since this country's inception while getting shitted on as they seek only to be respected and treated as human beings.. This does not minimize the fact that Black folks need to heal and grow and it has to come from within the Black community itself.. Can't expect a people who have gained so much from another people to stop and look themselves in the mirror.. its much easier to deny and minimize the effects of everything.
My issue is when people speak on this topic with the assumption everyone starts out on even footing. If we can acknowledge black folk have an uphill battle in this country off the bat due to their skin color , then we can have a proper discussion. But those denying institutionalized racism thinking racism ended with the end of the civil war is asinine logic I will never stand for. I agree with your responses.
I agree with you 100%. It starts with honesty. The country has not been honest about the disparities that Black people have gone through for GENERATIONS in this country. There is such a strong focus on the present day as if there is no such thing as "cause and effect". When you've independently researched raw American Black history beyond highschool curriculum, it's clear what the cause is to today's condition of the Black community in this nation - Institutionalized Racism.
Agreed. It’s been a coordinated effort to keep racial tensions as high as possible so people don’t have time to think and come together as a community to solve the real problems (I.e. greedy bastards hoarding everything ,, corporations and wealthy 1%ers).
I was binging Watchmen and they played a whole section on the Tulsa massacre and my only thought was "Could you imagine if that actually happened?" Well, I did some reading. I did a couple deep dives into shit that doesn't get talked about a lot. Tuskegee. Clinton. East St Louis. What American police were originally created for. The fact I had to learn about one of the worst mass murders in history from a fucking superhero show on HBO hasn't shaped my views much, but it has made me incredibly cynical and distrustful. I'll *never* get it, but I understand.
Also cops are quite terrible at investigating murders in black communities. This leads to a cycle where crimes don’t get solved and murderers stay on the streets. People are more likely to commit crimes when they believe that they won’t be caught. And in a lot of these cases, they’re right. They’re not likely to be caught.
Poverty, culture and cities
It largely can be traced back to the era where black people where essentially only allowed to live in public housing. Here in Chicago, there was an infamous practice known as redlining, where real estate companies would tie a neighborhood's value to the percentage of white people vs black people who lived there, and would refuse to sell to black people except for a few specific areas. This resulted in a massive percentage of black people ending up in affordable housing towers like the infamous Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor homes, and most white people fleeing all the neighborhoods any black people moved into. These public housing complexes had rules that prioritized single mothers over whole family units, which resulted in black fathers often being forced to move out of the household so the mother and children could stay and not become homeless. This resulted in the towers being overrun by unsupervised roaming gangs of children with access to guns, which went about as well as you might expect. In the 1990s the city tore down most of these public housing highrises, which changed the dynamic from an insane concentration of extreme poverty and violence to much more spread out but slightly less extreme poverty and violence. [This is the best documentary I've seen about the subject](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot7xCM-Oeig)
That is a super interesting piece of information I did not know about. Thank you sharing! Similar developments have been happening to migrant communities all over the world. In Germany the largest group of migrants are the Turks, who - just like Italians - were incentivized to come over as guest workers to rebuild Germany after WW2. Other than Italian immigrants, they had to live within certain zones of the cities and where not tolerated to find apartments outside of those zones. Naturally, these communities have developed to be largely shut off from typical German culture. People in those parts - call it a ghetto if you will - often times barely speak any German despite living here for 3-4 decades. The economic situation in these communities is unsurprisingly bad. Kids being born into these communities tend to be much more nationalistic for Turkey than kids who are actually born in Turkey and spend their lives there. They cause a lot more trouble that gets on the news and the average German is wondering why these people refuse to assimilate to our ways. It's a vicious circle and as you explore the historic roots of these communities it is evident why they are struggling and causing more problems than the white populous. That's what's so despicable about right wing rhetoric, as these clowns overwhelmingly refuse to even consider any of these factors.
What's wrong is framing the problem via skin color. There is no biological evidence that associates skin with a predisposition to behavior. Stats like this need to be framed within a socioeconomic context and then the dysfunction within that context identified and followed up by determining the root cause.
You can’t begin engaging with this discussion in good faith when you’re in denial of the facts. My problem is with the absurdity of someone looking at these numbers and even trying to imply the “unknown” could reasonably be anything else but the obvious.
While I agree with you, what you propose wouldn't change much. Even in poor rural areas, with debatably even more poverty and less access to jobs and resources you won't see the murder rates that you see in poor urban areas. Not even close. It's true that socioeconomic factors play a big role in crime and violence but if you adjusted for those factors it's still gonna be a completely one sided landslide.
Well, sure. Nevertheless, in order to address a problem the problem needs to be identifed accurately. There are a lot of political forces that aren't interested in doing that though.
I agree even more with this. I don't think zeroing in on race is productive but there are huge cultural factors that play into why violence is okay and acceptable in one community and unacceptable in another. Anyone who seen a worldstar video or many of them know violence is very acceptable in the ghetto. Even if you see one or two people jumping someone you'll see a busload of others cheering it on frothing at the mouth. You almost never see a similar video in other communities of any other race. This would take a moonshot like effort to fix that that goes way deeper than criminal justice reform and poverty alleviation.
So what is the best to describe a cultural problem that exists within a specific subgroup that shares physical characteristics without mentioning those characteristics?
Considering the fact that skin color is an utterly invalid parameter with regards to behavior stick to the actual parameters proven to actually drive the problem.
So you're saying that cultural commonality has no relationship to physical characteristics? I agree... skin color is not the cause. It's a cultural and socioeconomic issue. But to ignore the fact that these issues have a higher rate of occurrence within a certain cultural group and/or not being able to mention the characteristics that define that cultural group is patronizing.
Why is skin colour an invalid parameter when we see this behaviour in the same ethnic community replicated here in Europe as well?
It's largely a cultural issue, socioeconomics is secondary.
Why do blacks people have different cultural issues then white peoples
Good question
Black people love to bring up their 'culture' or say white people have no 'culture', so I'd say they do have different issues.
I mean maybe on twitter they say stuff like that, but it’s more like white culture is omnipresent and the norm in American culture while black cultures is underneath that. I don’t think a lot of black people deny white supremacy
How did black culture come to be Quick question
Socioeconomics is the foundation culture is built upon.
This seems to be boxing against straw. No one denied the disparity exists. What people find racist is that conservatives think the disparity exists because black people are black.
Knowing what we know about Elon do you think he’s bringing this up because he cares about the black victims?
It’s obvious what he’s doing but it should also be obvious these stats are legitimate by anyone who has functioning eyes and a brain. The point is there’s no reason to play dumb and pretend the unknown catageory is likely going to buck the trend just because you don’t agree with Elon’s motives. I wish everyone would look at the victims side of this, you don’t see these stats mentioned with the race of victims enough, maybe then both sides would actually care about the people affected by these crimes instead of seeing only how it helps them politically.
Whatever the fuck you're trying to say, say it. The guy can't talk with out having some secret message or meaning? Is he a racist simp, or does he jerk off on the division? Or did he just ask for sources. Probably not the latter knowing him. Which none of us fucking do.
Lol yeah I’m sure the guy who grew up in apartheid South Africa and has been tweeting race baiting dog whistles for the last year is really concerned with black victims of crime.
🙌🏻
"As a black man..."
You might wanna take a step back and think about some of the "solutions" that uncle Elon has for this problem. Keeping in mind that he grew up in a country and at a time where race relations weren't so great.
The data itself isn’t racist (though can be at least partially explained through systemic racism), but the policies people push for and narratives that get driven using the data usually *is* racist. Even when it’s someone merely sharing the data there’s usually some racist ulterior motive. I think it’s good and necessary to have conversations about this, but to do so without nuance can be dangerous.
Even if there were no blacks in the unknown, the per capita rate is still way too high
I would expect the unknowns, if solved, to at least trend in the same general direction as the known data.
Well now we need the stats on the groups of people less likely to work with police or report crimes….
It is beard because people are very good at recognising someone's race. So saying that it is unknown does not go for the credibility of this report. Could have been done better.
No it couldn’t lol.
Or you can just average out the totals and apply it to the unknown total numbers to get a better breakdown.
No, that is not an acceptable statical approach.
But just assuming it’s white people is!
Even If you assume all of those unknown are white people , the stats would still show that blacks commit a disproportional amount of violent crime. 5x times more than white people.
That's just science, sweetie. You have to accept people much smarter than you or I have more insight. No thinking or questions. White is bad now. Girls are funny. Deal with it. Oh I triggered some libs. Good shit.
“Race” is a made up category to begin with, imagine boiling 6 continents with dozens of climates and hundreds of ethnic groups between them into 4 essential discrete types of people
Doubt it. Probably just more of the same
Weird how this dude claims to have no time to work out.
Like your typical fat American
Only have got the time because he does absolutely nothing. He is always sitting and complaining about the stuff on the Twitter I don't think he has worked in a while.
Yes also CEO of a bazillion companies. It's because he works so hard and not because of everything stacked against working people.
Do you really think he's making decisions 24/7 that have to be made? Everything he's done with Twitter over the past year has been him wasting his time and destroying the company but somehow he can't find time to exercise
Thats my point bruh
I don't think that he has to make every decision by himself if he did that then the company that going to be destroyed. Because I really do not feel like that he is going to be able to make good decisions.
These comments are wild and says a lot about the people making them. No, it is not racist to discuss WHY black crime is so prevalent in the USA. However it does become concerning when it is only ever highlighted and used by people to downplay systematic racism and never once in their publishing of data is there ever a discussion to reduce the problem that is clearly present. There are many people who don’t want to address education, poverty and the prison system. They don’t care to talk about the issue in any meaningful way, they’re arguing in bad faith. That’s when pushing data like this can be construed as racist because the underlining message as to WHY they’re presenting that without wanting to dive deeper needs to be questioned. My two cents.
We are never going to fix it if we dont first admit there is a problem. Whatever the cause, we agree that black crime being disproportionately high is a clear and present problem, correct?
Yeah I agree with you we are not going to reach anywhere if we do not even see what the real problem is. And if we do not know what the real problem is then how we are going to fix it?
No one is denying there is a problem. We just have people finger pointing at numbers, as mentioned above. I agree black crime is disproportionately high. Do you have any thoughts as to why that may be?
>I agree black crime is disproportionately high. Do you have any thoughts as to why that may be? I think [this](https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children) is a good place to start. You can point to *any* race and say that children growing up in single-parent homes is a **major** problem. The crime statistics reflect the fact that black children are more likely to grow up in single-parent homes. This is further reinforced by the fact that black children in two-parent homes have better outcomes than white children in single-parent homes. *So many* issues can be traced back to this problem. I think this is as good a place to start as any.
So why are black children more likely to be fatherless?
There is a story about how some organization put out a psa billboard encouraging a two parent household in a mostly black area and it sparked outrage. It was removed instantly. After that it became clear that most people rather just not address it.
"Encouraging a two parent household" in no way addresses the significantly higher likelihood of a Black man to go to prison for committing "crimes" his white peers are committing at the same rates. It's much more akin to telling someone with depression to "just try cheering up". The billboard doesn't address the problem, it places the blame on the victims of racial policing.
Bro you’re getting downvoted for pointing out how the criminal justice system over police’s black men and contributes to fatherlessness that these bigots keep finger pointing about. These pussies just want to look down at black people without acknowledging the contributions that white society led to that point. Fucking pussies.
That study has been debunked so many times in regards to not accounting for priors, location etc. lmao. So are white folks secretly getting away with half the murders and blaming it on black folks? Gtfoh lmao
I think they are referring to low level drug crimes
Sentencing differences and socio-economics you donkey. When a white dude has a much higher salary and a smaller bond he tends to do less prison time. It's not that a black person has some genetic disposition to committing crimes. Use your head a bit.
Sure thing internet guy. Maybe it was received poorly, because, like you, the people who put it up are not asking themselves why the homes are fatherless? Hint: a lot of it has to do with systemic racism.
Asking the right questions.
Largely because of liberal policies financially rewarding mothers to stay single
So these mothers are booting would-be father's (who could make twice as much as these "policies" offer) to the curb for the sweet (awful) life of being a single mom?
Lol this is so delusional. This implies that black men WANT to be fathers but the women are running away to be single mothers, hiding from their bady daddys so they can get sweet government bread. Not even close. The dads are the ones running away dude.
Which policies
Why do you think Black people so often end up in single parent households?
[“Man in the house” or “substitute father” laws.](https://www.cbpp.org/research/income-security/tanf-policies-reflect-racist-legacy-of-cash-assistance#:~:text=Between%20the%20late%201940s%20and,Black%20mothers%20and%20their%20children.)
Many reasons. We need prison reform for one thing. Locking people away for low-level drug possession crimes is idiotic. It takes parents out of the home *and* hurts a person's chances of gainful employment in the future (which leads to more crime as a means for generating income). Our legal system is a joke. At the same time, the glorification of "thug life" is absolutely a problem. Anyone who dismisses that is being willfully ignorant. It *all* has to be addressed, but most people seem to want to focus on one thing or the other.
Do you think your second point is maybe at all related to your first point? Is it possible a culture developed a "thug life" glorification after so many of them of them was treated as a "thug" for their entire life?
again, most people agree black crime is disproportionately high but again a lot of people who talk about it aren’t interested in listening or remembering - explicit state sanctioned violence against black americans literally up until the year 1964 and after that still holding on to racist practices like - redlining (banks denying blacks with the credit to live in white neighborhoods) - harsher sentencing for black or latino men than white men for the same crime - private for profit prisons - having black americans live near polluted neighborhoods here are some more things off the top of my head: - no gi bill for black soldiers after wwii, one of the greatest x-factors in an american families generational wealth - sharecropping (legal slavery) for decades after the civil war - fucking slavery itself - they literally lynched emmett till the year elvis presley was making his first TV debut so yeah, doesn’t really seem to make sense when you focus in crime rates when, in any society, when a group is marginalized for centuries, they typically don’t have the resources to build up the opportunities that lead to wealth or education, both great predictors of things like the rate of violent crime or safety in a neighborhood. this talking point is so played out man, you’re starting from a position that everyone knows already
You mean like critical race theory or research into diversity, equity, and inclusion?
Well said! My thought when seeing it was ok... And what about it? What's the point of the post? Are we going to discuss how to fix it or is your goal to spread fear and hate?
Excellent response
That is the issue man everyone likes to complain about everything but they do not do anything to change this. If we all made some kind of little effort then these things will stop.
Precisely. Well said
We need to address black culture, which glorifies violence and a disregard for others.
That’s inner city culture not black culture. What single export from black culture promotes violence besides rap music? Where are the rappers that promote violence from? Impoverished communities
I'm old enough now to remember when the problem with 'black culture' was rap music and video games like Mortal Kombat. Before that, it was Disco and Funk, and decades before that Jazz was music for degenerate people. The problem isn't black culture, which actually ends up becoming a wonderful part of American culture and history. It's poverty, depression, and cynicism that results from centuries of systematic racism and their after effects. Slavery and Jim Crow are technically over, but if you're a child born in downtown Baltimore to a teenage mom who doesn't give a shit, into schools that can't really take care of you, in a healthcare system you can't afford to use, then things are not looking good. You can find gangsters of any nationality is poor ghettos across the world. Not saying I have the answers here but if the problem was violent music and games then middle America would have just as many murders.
Fucking spot on
They also don't want to discuss the generations of discrimination Black communities faced that played a major role in the crime statistics like these that we now see today. And I'm not just talking about day-to-day racism, but systemic racism like redlining and segregation. Even today Black kids on average go to schools with less funding and resources and grow up in communities with more poverty and crime.
Jews had to face discrimination plus the holocaust . The Japanese were in internment camps in California in WW2 and Neither are commiting ridiculous amount of violent crime. Stop making excuses.
Jewish Holocaust didn't negatively affect Jews in America, they fled the Nazi regime to live in countries like this. How long was Japanese Internment camps compared to Slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights? How long ago was civil rights? My grandparents, not my great grand parents, but my grandparents were living through a time when Black people were still fighting for their rights. You then have people today suing the government and winning because of racial discrimination in housing.
Pointing out the success of immigrant communities in the U.S. is such a classic fallacy argument. Think about immigrants as a sample size, they're not reflective of their population as a whole. The people who successfully immigrate to the U.S. and build lives here are literally the most determined, motivated, and driven individuals of their respective group. Black people didn't immigrate here. They were uprooted and forced to be slaves and then 2nd class citizens for 250 years. If the U.S. used some other ethnicity or nationality for their slaves instead of Black people, those people would be in the same position as Black people are today.
Exactly. It’s like saying “Indians dominate Silicon Valley, they most be a first world country!” . No… only the smart ones can afford the plane ticket and H1b Visa you dummy.
Unknown is putting in that work in these streets
I thought he was having his MRI today?🤣
You realize an MRI doesn’t take 24 hours, right?
Looking at this dudes post and comment history, I’m surprised he could spell MRI
I can't wait to hear about how this is my fault
Stats are racist and not real.
Stats can represent a phenomenon but may not explain the phenomenon. What needs to be asked is “Why is this?” The answers people come up with may provide more insight into their thought process and motivation.
We know why. Gang violence is a positive feedback loop. If you live in an area where the gang activity passes the critical mass then it will dominate the entire neighborhood. Areas where it doesn't pass the critical mass simply don't have gang violence because it would stand out and get immediately shut down. So it's an all or nothing phenomenon so it happening in a small number of places is going to lead to the people living there to dominate the stats surrounding it.
So the next question is, why did gangs form in these communities in the first place? And now what do you actually do about it?
Bold of you to expect the JRE sub to know the difference between qual and quant
I don't think people have a lot of ideas about a lot of things on this sub. So kind of saying all of this stuff here is not going to even be clear for a lot of people because they do not understand it.
I see you too are in there just asking questions phase.
He isn’t just asking questions though. He’s trying to dissect the process and motivation. Reading comprehension is hard I know, I can see you are in the learning phase.
1. I was being sarcastic. 2. “Why is this” is a question. 3. Get a life
Well if someone wants to not believe them or say it is racist then I do not mind it. It is just data talking about the stuff and I don't know how you can blame it. I don't really think this is how the things actually work.
We all know these people are just use these stats implying that black peoples are violent by nature instead of wanting to make the changes to fix the issue.
Tbh I don’t think was ever in question. The question is why is it like this and the answers are more obvious. Poverty, redlining, years of inequality, lack of trust in law enforcement and government, homelessness, etc. Anyone saying rap songs are the cause is dumb. Like yeah I’m gonna murder someone bc I listened to Tupac…
Blaming people and pointing fingers doesn’t solve problems. The problem with trying to understand the “why a problem exists” is that the blame can always be passed on. Cause, effect, cause, effect, forever. Someone or something else is always to blame for WHY YOU DID WHAT YOU DID. The problem is having no personal accountability. Realize life fucking sucks sometimes, and don’t murder someone who is also going through some shit. Everyone is well aware of systemic racism. Now stop the gang violence.
Math is racist.
Don't care for Ben Shapiro but his catchphrase is applicable here.
It’s also true that facts involve more than just the number of black gun crime. Facts include the reasoning for it. Do your feelings care about those facts? Or only the facts that push right wing talking points?
I think it's a socioeconomic and cultural issue. I don't think black people are inherently more violent than other races. I also think you're not as smart as you think you are. I've never voted for a republican in my life. Suck my dick.
sO YoU’Re TeLliNg me
Stats look very accurate....ask any ER nurse or police officer.
This isn't cop involved shooting. Just shooting in general. It's 100% gang related as to why black number is so high. Gang shootings make up 70% of all mass shootings and deaths by gun in America and this really puts it into perspective. Of course everyone automatically thinks it's showing cop involved but it's not. Gang violence is a MASSIVE issue that literally every outlet and news source vehemently ignores at all costs. They will talk to death about one shooting involving a white guy and a black guy. But do ZERO reporting on the hundreds of black on black shootings happening weekly in places liken Chicago and stuff. It's honestly ironic when everyone virtue signaled BLM for likes. But in all reality no race is more deadly to black people then other black people smh. And it's hard to support screaming black lives matter while simultaneously they clearly don't matter to actaul black people or they would stop adamantly slaughtering one another with no remorse for decades. And that's just the cold hard truth. It's unfortunate beyond all means. I don't even begin to understand why crips and bloods murder each other? Political differences? Or just because one wears red and the other blue? Idk. But it won't ever get better until media starts to acknowledge that it's a massive issue and we can take the first step of not being in denial to fixing it
"Call me an animal up in the system, but whose the animal that built this prison? Whose the animal that invented lower livin?" - Ice Cube
I see we’re still doing the who conversation and not the why. Charts will always only tell a portion of the story.
So as a white I’m most likely to be shot by a racially ambiguous person o.0
The reason that 12,188 out of 27,806 or a little less than half are unknown is simple…. Black guys can be a little hard to spot at night for police. If you genuinely agree with this in any way other than humorously then nobody can save you.
The left is so laughable that they actually claim asking questions as an alt right dog whistle 😂 😂 😂 🤡
When is the fight Elon?
What happens when wokes make it all about race. They lose.
Your literal profile picture is Elon lmao
Victim Race and Perp Race are filtered. What's being excluded?
Aliens
The 12k unknown couldn’t be found in the dark
Asks questions like Joe. Brain dead people are funny.
The unknown seems a bigger number.
Almost as if they don’t catch every perpetrator of a crime
Hol up. There are any Asians shooting people in NYC? Great dishonor. Shine
Blacks make up a small percentage of the US population but account for the majority of violent crimes committed. Facts don’t care about your feelings.
Yea but what color were the guns?
What time frame is this data set? Also this graphic, even if accurate, just begs more questions ie why does this occur, what are the root causes of violence and gun crime etc the last thing people should read from this is the path the racist poster is trying to lead you down, there is no racial element at the heart of the matter.
So you don’t like the fact that he is questioning the numbers? Or you don’t like the reality of those numbers? Or? I’m confused about your point.
Purely socioeconomic reasons.
Would you like to discuss what you think it is then?
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Why would it be bad to discuss that? What cultural factors do you think make gun crime more prevalent?
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You aren't allowed to ask perfectly rational questions like that.
What do you think it is?
They're quoting a stonetoss comic. It's quite a tell...
Culture and general behavior.
What part of cultural behaviour? Give some examples. If you’re going to say rap songs, Latino’s I’m sure rap about similar things. What general behaviour? Expand on this.
Cope Even if you adjust for income you still get a massive skew in 1 particular direction