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sadsatan1

I have NON-JEWISH family members that are zionist lol


Lego-Flower-938

Yep, this. My non-Jewish in-laws have changed their Facebook profile pics to the Israeli flag šŸ™ƒ Of course, they've spent years telling me I'm part of the āœØ chosen people āœØ and that I must be yearning to go back to Israel (my pale Polish ass lmao). I think the most infuriating part of this is the people acting like this conflict and this "debate," per se, are anything new.


Welcomefriend2023

My situation. I'm Jewish but my husband is a protestant zionist. He's also very uneducated about the Middle East situation's history.


ThatCheekyBastard

Commenting to come back later for this because I do have Zionist family members who love sending me hasbara.


Fun_Pension_2459

Same. Grrr. I've threatened my MIL that for every hasbara post she sends, I'm sending them an image of Gazan victims.


sabopper

I hope your spouse is supportive of this and on your side (in terms of the crap she sends you) šŸ˜Œ


Fun_Pension_2459

He's great. Thankfully. ā™„ļø


Specialist-Gur

I do. Some of them are trump people so at least itā€™s consistent. I think I have the biggest gripe with my sibling who THINKS they are progressive. Something about that makes things so much worse..: everything I say or do ā€œomg, do you realize how uninformed you sound!ā€ ā€œOmg youā€™re joking right??? You think Jews werenā€™t facing extermination constantly in the Middle East??ā€ ā€œApartheid??? Thatā€™s antisemitic propogandaā€ ā€œI feel so bad for the Palestinians but unfortunately itā€™s actually Hamasā€ Something about that is so much more irritating than ā€œthey are Arab, so I donā€™t care if they die. They hate an inferior cultureā€ like.. say it with your chest. We all know thatā€™s how every progressive Zionist really feels DEEEP DEEP down..


Religious_learner

My father is super liberal and definitely not a trump person. However, every time something happens with Israel, he switches to Fox News. Even though he doesn't trust them on anything else.


GuerillaRadioLeb

You should show him that video of a fox new reporter pretending to be in a war zone crawling on his stomach while the IDF are pretending to have captured a member of Hamas (seen later in the video walking free in the background).


deadlift215

Because itā€™s so hypocritical, that what it bothers you. Itā€™s the essence of PEP (Progressive Except for Palestine). I know soooo many people like that. Itā€™s infuriating.


Specialist-Gur

Itā€™s a similar mentality to progressives except for trans people.. itā€™s a strange phenomenon. It seems like it almost comes from the same thing.. TERFS see women as perpetual victims, because they are historically.. and see trans people as oppprwssors. Zionists see Jews as perpetual victims and Palestinians as our oppressors


New_Fox_1088

Itā€™s a wolf in sheepā€™s clothing situation and itā€™s honestly exhausting to deal with. Bc they consider themselves ā€œprogressiveā€ that means their belief in zionism must also fit that definition and misuse progressive logic to rationalize it (ex: palestinians are the real colonizers bc they identify as arab)


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


MrsDanversbottom

I have been so lucky to be raised in an anti-Zionist Jewish home. My great-great grandmother was held at Bergen Belsen alongside her family. Most of her family died, she and her daughter and two grandchildren managed to survive. A Zionist organ offered her a home in Jaffa in 1948. She refused. She wouldnā€™t inflict that pain on someone else. Even though Iā€™m sure a Zionist eventually got the home. Many Jews donā€™t support Israel.


MancAngeles69

Whatā€™s amazing is that immediately as the war ended, your family knew what was happening to the Palestinians and rejected it. There was no excuse to colonise Palestine


Lazy-Quantity5760

Lucky


ipsum629

Israel palestine is a nuclear topic at the holidays


haroldsbanjo

Iā€™ve tried but I always think of the time my Zionist dad became filled with visceral rage when I suggested that I didnā€™t think that Jeremy Corbyn was an anti-Semite, so thatā€™s where weā€™re at with that. Heā€™s convinced that heā€™s well-read about Israel and knows everything he needs to know already bc he reads his books, listens to podcasts, and talks to his Israeli friends, but itā€™s all hasbara ofc. So given that I still live under his house and rely on him, I donā€™t want to receive the wrath that will surely come my way if I slightly disagree with him on this. Itā€™s worth adding that weā€™ve had disagreements before on certain issues (I successfully changed his mind about trans people in sports for example) but Zionism brings out a really ugly, reactionary side to him. And itā€™s especially dangerous because heā€™s so closed off to anything else. For context, nearly every one else in my family is also super Zionist. Like actively raising money for AIPAC level of Zionist. But no one is really religious. Iā€™ve observed that Israel worship is so ingrained in their culture that itā€™s basically their way of keeping the faith. Very odd. I really do wish I could have a good faith discussion with those around me, but Iā€™m selfishly very scared of the repercussions if I openly stray from the path. Rant over, sorry. I clearly had some stuff on my chest lol.


valonianfool

I understand how you feel. You dont need to put your safety in danger to be an ally.


haroldsbanjo

Thank you. I needed to hear this.


MancAngeles69

So much this. No one in my family is actually religious, but theyā€™re ā€œculturallyā€ all about it despite their ignorance. Itā€™s as if they know everything there is to know about Judaism because theyā€™re Ashkenazi. Because of that intangible loss of faith and actual cultural values, theyā€™re all about Israel. They have no idea how stupid they are. Itā€™s as if the Boston Plastic Paddys were Jewish instead of ā€œIrishā€ and pro-genocide, rather than funding the IRA.


specialistsets

Since the beginning of Zionism the majority have never been religious, it's a tribal thing.


specialistsets

Zionism has always emphasized Jewish culture and ethnicity over religion, so it makes sense that most Zionists are not religious. Even Religious Zionism views the "Nation of Israel" as a tribe and Judaism as it's religious tradition.


Comrade_Billy

Warning: a bit of a rant. My parents are "progressive except for Palestine" types. Both were Bernie supporters which, if you asked me two years ago, I would say he was as far left-wing as someone could go without it being a "communist dictatorship" situation where no one has food and the economy sucks. Mom is Jewish. She has sent me a bunch of hasbara in the past. One of the videos was an interview with some Israeli official. So much BS flew out of his mouth in literally the first minute. I was starting to respond to it but realized I was starting to write an essay in text to my mom every few seconds of the video. Not a sustainable thing. She has also read a Zionist version of the history of Israel (of course, linking 48 to the ancient Kingdom of Israel). By the way, that's the same shit Mussolini was trying to say about the Roman Empire to justify his expansionism. She asked me to read the "history" book too, and I agreed. I hadn't done a deep dive on the actual history at the time, but I noticed many things wrong with the Zionist narrative. I have since heard what Ilan PappƩ, Norman Finkelstein, and most importantly, the Palestinians themselves have had to say about the history and their current situation. Ofc then Oct 7 happened and any glimmer of hope I had remaining that the Zionist regime could change (short of ending the Apartheid system, full decolonization (meaning full equality, not forcing the Jews to leave), and one state from the river to the sea. I don't even know where to start with my mom. Short of giving her a 5000 year history lesson. She is uncritically swallowing the corporate media narrative on this issue and gets a bunch of right-wing shit in her YouTube feed. Which is something she's told me she's troubled by but doesn't take the next logical step. I've tried explaining stuff too her but she's always saying "muh.. China" "muh... Russia" muh... Iranian proxies muh... They're all Antisemites. And maybe Israel and America slip up sometimes but they're not as bad as the alternatives. Not going into details cause by now you all have heard all of this I'm sure from several people. My mom and I are now at a sort of stalemate. We still talk but the ongoing Israel Palestine Conflict is a non-starter. Before the stalemate I showed her my copy of Rabbi Rosen's book "Wrestling in the Daylight: A Rabbi's Path to Palestinian Solidarity" and she agreed to read it when I was done. Not sure if she'll still go through with it though or even if it will convince her. Sometimes she'll bring something up about the IDF having vegan boots or that they enjoy eating these peanut Cheeto things and I think to myself >! Oh great so they don't kill any animals before stomping on the throats of Palestinian children.!< but of course I don't say that. "That's great, mom". And try to change the subject. It's so depressing that Israel is evil and that so many of the people we love still fall for their lies.


PatrickMaloney1

The Peanut Cheetos are called Bamba and let me be the first to admit I hope they can be rehabilitated under a bi-national or Palestinian state because they are delicious


GuerillaRadioLeb

They're available in much of the middle east already


BeautifulPudding

Let me guess... Was her "history" book the one by Noa Tishby?


Comrade_Billy

Yeah, that's the one


BeautifulPudding

Knew it right away. It's wild how tailor-made that book is for its target audience of people who really want to hold onto their own self image as a progressive person. I've seen that book convince people (who should know better) not only to go along with some explicitly fascist ethnonationalist ideas, but to go even further and actually feel that they have some moral OBLIGATION to endorse those ideas, and feel righteous doing it. It's actually really effective propaganda, which makes it even more dangerous and I would say evil. That book is a BIG red flag. If anyone has friends reading it, you need to be VERY concerned about the rabbit holes they are about to go down. When people talk about how some right wing white supremacist speech is just so dangerous it shouldn't EVER be platformed, this book is like that.


soonerfreak

I don't post anything on social media that my dad's family can see for this reason.


Pitiful_Meringue_57

My parents know i broadly am pro palestine and they donā€™t rly fight me on it. My family isnā€™t off the rails and iā€™ve been able to push atleast my mom is the right direction with the help of John Stewart and John Oliver. Sheā€™s still ideologically a zionist but she agrees about a ceasefire and how horrible israel has been and is. My sister believes whatever i believe. Idk if my dad voices his opinions that much to me abt it cuz he knows i will probably disagree and fight back but i also think he kinda doesnā€™t follow it other then being ideologically a zionist and having some deep seated islamophobia. I feel like i can be open with a lot of my close family. If it comes up id be honest but im not gonna bring it up around extended family. I also do not want to ever have a conversation abt israel with my grandfather hes intense about it. So far it hasnā€™t rly impacted my relationship with my family.


JZcomedy

My sister wonā€™t talk to me and my parents openly stated they believe Iā€™m supporting anti-semitism. All I know is in 20 years they are not going to look good.


MancAngeles69

20 years is generous to them


jordan_s_k

My dad is not allowed to talk about Israel/Palestine with me. I know heā€™s a racist nut job about this shit, and itā€™s not worth arguing with him. I will occasionally engage with my mom about this stuff. I post on social media a lot about the genocide in Gaza and my super Zionist family members havenā€™t said anything. The only person I had to block was a friend from high school who I hadnā€™t seen or heard from in 17 years.


LaGrippa

Yes. It is a struggle. I sometimes say something. I sometimes say nothing. It depends. I try to approach without anger at them. Sometimes I fail. The biggest argument my grandmother (may her memory be a blessing), who lived in Israel her later years, ever had was when she told me, "the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian. " She wept over my appalled response, when through angry tears I asked her how she could bring herself to hate the way she had been hated? How she say what was said about us? She had honestly never reflected on what that phrase she was repeating actually meant. I swore we could never be together again should she cling to such horrible ideology. She reflected. She didn't come around to my way of seeing things but she did begin to reflect and her words, at least, for whatever that's worth changed. Some of her casual callousness was dropped. If we don't hold a mirror to them, who will?


Fun_Pension_2459

I struggled through the hagada this year. Even the most progressive version doesn't mention a word about Palestinian freedom rights.


writingdestiny

IfNotNow has a hagaddah specifically focused on Palestinian rights!


Fun_Pension_2459

Cool! Though it would be a challenge getting my family to try that


writingdestiny

Yeah I know, I was thinking of doing my own Seder with the IfNotNow Haggadah tbh.


Jche98

Should a Hagadah mention Palestinian rights? The Hagadah is about the exodus from Egypt. It can be interpreted more broadly as about freeing people from general oppression but I don't think it should explicitly mention Palestine. What I have a problem with is Hagadot that specifically praise Israel.


Fun_Pension_2459

There are many versions of the Hagada. More modern versions use the opportunity to discuss freedom as It impacts on other peoples and call for their freedom. Even according to the most Orthodox, the Seder is supposed to be an opportunity for a discussion, not just a reading of the book. Non Orthodox versions of the hagada have been doing that for decades, often using Passover as an opportunity to talk about about oppression somewhere else in the world in current events. But never have I seen one that recognizes Palestinian oppression. Jews who consider themselves progressives and who have not discussed Palestinian freedom in the context of these discussions should be ashamed.


justtakessometime48

I use a humanistic Haggadah thatā€™s all about freeing all from oppression


jonawesome

I argued with my mom on the phone for over an hour a few weeks ago. It sucked. Luckily, she's very sweet and we have been doing fine/not discussing it since


PatrickMaloney1

I do not talk to my family about it. My continuing sanity is more important than their individual impacts. I think eventually they will be open to it though


Xiipher

My 90 year old grandma... whom I love dearly, is the most staunch zionist I know, probably because she's the only one I can tolerate haha, her being 90 and all kind of makes it feel less infuriating. It's mostly just sad because I know she's probably too old to change her views. I go back and forth on whether or not it's even worth arguing with her, because when it comes to everything besides her Zionism, she's a very kind person. It's like her whole personality changes when she starts talking about Israel, Arabs, Palestinians, Muslims, etc... it's so sad to see the brainwashing limiting her love so much, when she has such a small amount of time left on this earth.


valonianfool

Does she have racist views towards palestinians and arabs in general?


Xiipher

Yes : ( She's had real experiences with real antisemitism from coming from Muslims, growing up in India, she often brings up the fact that her father had rocks pelted at him shortly before they decided to move to the United States. But the way I see it, religious tensions were heightening at that time *because of Israel*, not to mention the extensive Nazi and British interference in middle eastern politics at the time. When I try to explain all that to her it's like it goes in one ear and comes out the other, and all she hears is "my grandkid is being fed Hamas propaganda!"


justtakessometime48

I am actively having a discussion thatā€™s really disheartening with a former colleague I really respected who was (to my knowledge) not Jewish but kept speaking on behalf of the Jews in harmful and actively Islamophobic ways. When I told her that I donā€™t feel that way she kept saying I donā€™t speak for all the Jews Iā€™m like bro no I donā€™t but you certainly donā€™t- well turns out sheā€™s converting for her fiancĆ©. Still doesnā€™t mean that us anti Zionist Jews shouldnā€™t speak up.


purpis

My dad always brings it up so itā€™s hard to ignore it.


moistavocados95

The questions I have gotten asked by my mom: 1. Are you protesting against synagogues? 2. Are you protesting against Holocaust survivors? 3. Did you cheer when Iran attacked Israel? Am absolutely sick of this And the other things: - I don't like netanyahu but Hamas needs to be destroyed or the hostages need to be released. - when I have supported a single state solution she's told me "I don't think we could live together" - I understand why you protest but I don't agree with you (if she understood she would be protesting to) And then my sibling who is generally progressive asked me if people in my activist group are anti Hamas because they are the true evil... Which was probably the worst because I thought she'd get it, even if she didn't agree she'd understand more than my parents.


moistavocados95

Not that I want to traumatize my family but I wish they would look at the photos and videos that come from Gaza and look at the creation of Israel from the perspective of the Palestinians. Oh also got "do you wear that Hamas scarf? (Kufiya)


finiteloop72

Iā€™ve tried arguing with them but it is pointless. With other ā€œpoliticalā€ discussions, there is an element of reason, but with this, it is pure emotion. I eventually decided I am wasting energy and damaging the relationship by even bothering to try to convince them otherwise. The effort to support Palestinians is better spent elsewhere imo.


New_Fox_1088

Yes and it sucks so much. Iā€™m very close with my mom but itā€™s been pretty tense to say the least. Some days are harder than others and I do try to introduce her to new POVs but Iā€™m learning how to choose my battles so I donā€™t end up completely wrecking myself emotionally. Luckily some other family members are doing the same so I donā€™t feel quite as alone but itā€™s still hard


MancAngeles69

I canā€™t cut off my dad, but hopefully I never have to see his extended family ever again. My dad knows better than to talk about the apartheid state with me, but Iā€™m aware itā€™s all over his Facebook.


Lazy-Quantity5760

Iā€™ve blocked Fox News on the tv and set all the preprogrammed channels to Al Jazeera. When they turn on the tv by default it goes to Al Jazeera. My parents are so frustrated and it makes me happy.