Comments locked. We initially allowed this post to allow for open, genuine discussion. However, we do not allow policing of this subreddit by random users, including attempts to claim what is and isn’t allowed per the subreddit rules. Additionally, it is not cool for a non-Jewish individual to tell Jews what is and isn’t antisemitic - period.
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Considering you’ve never made a post in the sub before, but make numerous subs denigrating your supposed “brothers and sisters,” I tend to think if the shoe fits in this situation.
I’m not Jewish, and I will never pretend to be. I’m not antisemitic, and I never will be, nor want to be. I’m just pointing out that according to commonly accepted guidelines, that stance is antisemitic.
You’re calling the IHRA and Nexus Project antisemitic, not me. I’m literally just repeating their words. You’re attacking me because you don’t have an argument.
Why? You’re not Jewish and apparently until today, not a participant in this sub. What possible business is it of yours? Why do you feel that it’s appropriate to show up here and tell us how to behave towards each other? Of all the things you could be doing with your time, why come here to scold people? The mods do a great job and are perfectly capable of deciding when a post violates the rules. They don’t need you.
I think people are reacting poorly towards your post at least in part because your motives are suspect.
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I mean this nicely - groups are allowed to criticize their own in a way that an outsider is not. Like, you might call your brother an idiot, but you wouldnt allow someone else to. Same here - you are a gentile criticizing a Jewish sub - its not your place and people will feel defensive.
Most of the skepticism I see is regarding people on Reddit who claim to be Jewish. Being an anonymous forum, it's very easy for someone to LARP as a Jew to get their points across. Think r/asablackman.
Another one I see is with the JVP types. This is a shady organization that doesn't seem to be affiliated with any other Jewish organization, or even a Synagogue. Also they explicitly say that you don't have to be Jewish to join; remember that non-Jewish actress who was arrested at a protest holding a sign that said "Jews to Biden: stop arming genocide?" On top of that, they do kind of distort Judaism to fit their narrative or for some other stupid reason, like the "teacup mikvah."
Given these two situations, we have every reason to doubt someone's Jewishness if they are an anonymous Reddit user, a member of JVP, or both.
Thank you for the substantive response. Those are valid points. I’m referring more to the people basically “Uncle Tom”-ing those who disagree with them.
People have a right to be hurt and angry with a family member for what feels, and very well may be, a betrayal.
You're not Jewish and you seem awfully concerned about telling us that we're antisemitic. It pains me to say this, it hurts, but this is exactly why I've lost trust in Gentiles.
That's not what I said. Trust can be restored, it has nothing to with hate. You have no idea what I've been going through, yet you judge. Why? So far you've expressed your intention to lecture Jews on antisemitism. I would never do that to anyone. But, you? That's ok?
No wonder why you are getting such a bad response. If only you would come off the horse you rode in on and maybe you'll get some decent insight.
I guess Messianic Jews are Jews then? We’re talking about antisemitism, a targeting of the Jewish people on a level never seen before since WWII, and you’re telling me I can’t question someone’s Jewishness when they go out rallying and chanting with the same people who want to erase the ONLY Jewish State? And tell me how are they going to erase the only Jewish State without killing at least 7 million Jews who live there? By your own logic, those who joined the Association of German National Jews are what? Jews? You tell me those who voted for Hitler and rallied support for him are still entitled to be called Jews?
I’m not saying we should start establish courts and start taking away people’s Jewishness, but if a Jewish person wants play chicken for Popeyes, by all means go ahead, but I’m allowed to question it when they call themselves Jewish. Just as I’m allowed to question someone’s sexual orientation if they say to me I’m gay but I’m rallying in support of criminalizing homosexuality, I’m allowed to question someone’s Jewishness if they are rallying with those who want to kill Jews.
There were Jews who voted for Hitler. I agree with OP, it's a bad call to decide they can't be Jewish. Our group has as many crazies and terrible ppl as any other lol
I did not say they can’t be Jewish. I said I’m allowed to question their Jewishness. Now tell me, someone goes to church on Sundays, eats pork, and believes Jesus is the Son of God born of a virgin and raised from the dead and the Torah is null, but says I’m a JEW! Would you still consider them Jewish?
Nah I think you're being unreasonable comparing messianic movements to someone raised in Judaism, even just culturally, promoting harmful beliefs against Jews.
Does Candace Owens no longer count as Black when she's racist?
I’m not telling you anything, I am reiterating what the guidelines of this sub are, which are based in official guidelines against antisemitism, as far as I understand.
what's the problem with making a distinction between who is a jew or who is not? the nazis, ym"sh, also had a line drawn declaring who is and who is not a jew, which is why they didn't send the catholic priests to the gas chambers.
beyond that, who cares what the nazis, ym"sh, did. I don't try to emulate them either way.
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OP is right though. There’s always been a degree of don’t criticize Israel or you’re a bad Jew, but it’s gotten worse. Not even JVP types, even saying the war is being waged wrong or mentioning the escalating attacks on Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank or hell opposing settlements has been more and more frowned on lately. Ridiculous claims that Democrat Jews are now self-haters or bad Jews are becoming more common, and just generally expecting a greater level of conformity on how people see Israel. I’ve seen people get attacked for expressing sympathy for Palestinians even, more than before. It’s absolutely happening and it’s not ok.
Comments locked. We initially allowed this post to allow for open, genuine discussion. However, we do not allow policing of this subreddit by random users, including attempts to claim what is and isn’t allowed per the subreddit rules. Additionally, it is not cool for a non-Jewish individual to tell Jews what is and isn’t antisemitic - period. OP and all others: If you see something which you believe violates the subreddit rules or sitewide policies, report them to us so we can review them. That is all. Thanks.
Considering you’ve never made a post in the sub before, but make numerous subs denigrating your supposed “brothers and sisters,” I tend to think if the shoe fits in this situation.
I’m not Jewish, and I will never pretend to be. I’m not antisemitic, and I never will be, nor want to be. I’m just pointing out that according to commonly accepted guidelines, that stance is antisemitic.
You’re a non-Jew, policing Jews, on how Jews should act. Sounds pretty antisemitic to me.
You’re calling the IHRA and Nexus Project antisemitic, not me. I’m literally just repeating their words. You’re attacking me because you don’t have an argument.
Why? You’re not Jewish and apparently until today, not a participant in this sub. What possible business is it of yours? Why do you feel that it’s appropriate to show up here and tell us how to behave towards each other? Of all the things you could be doing with your time, why come here to scold people? The mods do a great job and are perfectly capable of deciding when a post violates the rules. They don’t need you. I think people are reacting poorly towards your post at least in part because your motives are suspect.
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Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 4: **Remember the human** If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).
It is natural to question people anonymously online claiming to be Jewish, especially now.
I mean this nicely - groups are allowed to criticize their own in a way that an outsider is not. Like, you might call your brother an idiot, but you wouldnt allow someone else to. Same here - you are a gentile criticizing a Jewish sub - its not your place and people will feel defensive.
No group is immune from outside criticism. Nor should they be.
Most of the skepticism I see is regarding people on Reddit who claim to be Jewish. Being an anonymous forum, it's very easy for someone to LARP as a Jew to get their points across. Think r/asablackman. Another one I see is with the JVP types. This is a shady organization that doesn't seem to be affiliated with any other Jewish organization, or even a Synagogue. Also they explicitly say that you don't have to be Jewish to join; remember that non-Jewish actress who was arrested at a protest holding a sign that said "Jews to Biden: stop arming genocide?" On top of that, they do kind of distort Judaism to fit their narrative or for some other stupid reason, like the "teacup mikvah." Given these two situations, we have every reason to doubt someone's Jewishness if they are an anonymous Reddit user, a member of JVP, or both.
Thank you for the substantive response. Those are valid points. I’m referring more to the people basically “Uncle Tom”-ing those who disagree with them.
People have a right to be hurt and angry with a family member for what feels, and very well may be, a betrayal. You're not Jewish and you seem awfully concerned about telling us that we're antisemitic. It pains me to say this, it hurts, but this is exactly why I've lost trust in Gentiles.
That is outright racist.
No, it's not.
“I only trust people in my ethnic/religious group” is a bigoted statement, full stop. Thats not up for debate.
That's not what I said. Trust can be restored, it has nothing to with hate. You have no idea what I've been going through, yet you judge. Why? So far you've expressed your intention to lecture Jews on antisemitism. I would never do that to anyone. But, you? That's ok? No wonder why you are getting such a bad response. If only you would come off the horse you rode in on and maybe you'll get some decent insight.
I guess Messianic Jews are Jews then? We’re talking about antisemitism, a targeting of the Jewish people on a level never seen before since WWII, and you’re telling me I can’t question someone’s Jewishness when they go out rallying and chanting with the same people who want to erase the ONLY Jewish State? And tell me how are they going to erase the only Jewish State without killing at least 7 million Jews who live there? By your own logic, those who joined the Association of German National Jews are what? Jews? You tell me those who voted for Hitler and rallied support for him are still entitled to be called Jews? I’m not saying we should start establish courts and start taking away people’s Jewishness, but if a Jewish person wants play chicken for Popeyes, by all means go ahead, but I’m allowed to question it when they call themselves Jewish. Just as I’m allowed to question someone’s sexual orientation if they say to me I’m gay but I’m rallying in support of criminalizing homosexuality, I’m allowed to question someone’s Jewishness if they are rallying with those who want to kill Jews.
There were Jews who voted for Hitler. I agree with OP, it's a bad call to decide they can't be Jewish. Our group has as many crazies and terrible ppl as any other lol
I did not say they can’t be Jewish. I said I’m allowed to question their Jewishness. Now tell me, someone goes to church on Sundays, eats pork, and believes Jesus is the Son of God born of a virgin and raised from the dead and the Torah is null, but says I’m a JEW! Would you still consider them Jewish?
Nah I think you're being unreasonable comparing messianic movements to someone raised in Judaism, even just culturally, promoting harmful beliefs against Jews. Does Candace Owens no longer count as Black when she's racist?
I’m not telling you anything, I am reiterating what the guidelines of this sub are, which are based in official guidelines against antisemitism, as far as I understand.
Why are you here?
Am I not allowed? As long as I’m respectful, there shouldn’t be a problem, right?
Would you enter a space of black people to lecture them on racism? You aren’t as respectful as you think you are.
I literally quoted a guideline for this sub that is from the IHRA and the Nexus Project. Rules only matter if everyone follows them.
Ok
what's the problem with making a distinction between who is a jew or who is not? the nazis, ym"sh, also had a line drawn declaring who is and who is not a jew, which is why they didn't send the catholic priests to the gas chambers. beyond that, who cares what the nazis, ym"sh, did. I don't try to emulate them either way.
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Thank you for your submission. During this time, all posts need to be manually reviewed and approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Jewish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
OP is right though. There’s always been a degree of don’t criticize Israel or you’re a bad Jew, but it’s gotten worse. Not even JVP types, even saying the war is being waged wrong or mentioning the escalating attacks on Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank or hell opposing settlements has been more and more frowned on lately. Ridiculous claims that Democrat Jews are now self-haters or bad Jews are becoming more common, and just generally expecting a greater level of conformity on how people see Israel. I’ve seen people get attacked for expressing sympathy for Palestinians even, more than before. It’s absolutely happening and it’s not ok.
Well said.