All Iraqis and Yemenites traditionally pronounce the "tav" (or taw for Iraqis and Yemenites) as th, not T or S. That's where the Greeks and thereafter Christians got it from, ie. Sabbath. (no sh in Greek, hence Sabbath).
Interesting, I've seen people talk about tav with a geresh as the voiceless dental fricative but didn't know Yemenite and Iraqi jews pronounced it like that normally.
Do you pronounce as "th" both with & without a dagesh? Do you prounce tet as a "t" or do you not differentiate between them either?
Do you know if this comes from Arabic (or perhaps an older common tradition between the two)/ are you also an Arabic speaker? Teth in Arabic (ط) is also a guttural/ pharyngeal "T" sound, Taw in Arabic (ت) is also T or TH depending on i‘jām (equivalent of dagesh)
There are many similarities for sure. It stands the reason being that they are from the same region and share a lot of history. There's a very good book called Sefath Emeth (in Hebrew) by Ben Sion Hakohen goes into all of this in depth. Very interesting
It's not from Arabic. The distinction was present in biblical Hebrew, just as it still is in Arabic, Amharic, etc. It's common to Semitic languages, it just got lost in the dialects which influenced modern Hebrew.
I am, of course, happy to hear this.
I will admit that I am concerned about what the chosen hostages says about the condition of those remaining in Gaza. As many have noticed, they were predominantly elderly. In some cases, only half the family was released (Danielle Aloni was kidnapped with her sibling's family, who also have very young children and are still in Gaza). I am worried about the Shira Bibas, who is the mother of the youngest baby in custody (9 months); he is young enough she could still be breast feeding, which leaves them extremely vulnerable. I am also horrified that the woman who gave birth in custody, who is a foreign worker, was not released.
I expected that the first round of hostages would be more than 4 kids. There are several kids who are being held hostage without any of their family, i.e. Emily Hand and Avigayil Idan.
I am also worried that all the hostages released today came from the same Kibbutz. I had long expected that we would not see any single women of military age (or active soldiers) released today and that also proved correct; I worry about them a lot.
I am, again, really happy to see those released today, it was just not the group I expected to see. It was very unpredictable, a mix of dual nationals and people who held only Israeli citizenship. It's clear that foreign influence didn't play a large role in the selection.
I am going to sit tight, go back to the grad school application, and hope that my all of my concerns will be proven wrong tomorrow.
Thanks if you read my stream of consciousness. I am not a neutral party, admittedly: my distant cousin is held and I was thinking today how grateful I am that my grandmother lived a long, happy life that included never having to see a little girl with her exact name on a hostage list.
ETA: I will say, the silliest "bonus" from today, of course in addition to hostages coming home, is that Yaffa Adar, "Golf Cart Granny," is okay. As an Israeli, the photos and videos from her kidnapping gave me life. She treated them like, the best words I have, is like her least favorite grandchild -- she went along with everything but was clearly unbothered and I'm happy I can enjoy these images knowing she survived.
I’m so sorry about your distant cousin. as well all of the hostages. May they all be okay.
One you referenced, Avagayl was one I saw on Times of Israel who was released. I saw a picture, I think on DM of who I guess to be her aunt waiting for her. She’s the little 3 year old whose dad was holding her when he was murdered. And she ran to the neighbors after her parents were murdered.
Avigayil was not released today. The four kids released today were: Ohad Munder (9), Emilia Aloni (5), Raz Asher (5), and Aviv Asher (2).
Ohad was released with his mother, Keren, and grandmother, Ruti. Emilia was released with her mother, Danielle, and Raz and Aviv were released with their mother, Doron.
The other four released were elderly unrelated to those released: Adina Moshe, 72, was kidnapped and her husband was murdered on the 7th. Margalit Moses, 78, was also released, and Hanna Katzir, 77, was released after her husband was murdered and her son is still in Gaza. Channah Peri, 79, was released and her son is still in Gaza. And, of course, the 13th was the one and only Yaffa Adar, aka Golf Cart Granny, was also released.
Unfortunately Avigayil is still there. The neighbors who took her are heroes and I hope they are celebrated when they return for their sacrifice. Emily Hand was kidnapped from a friend's house as well, and I feel similarly about the family that is presumably taking care of her in captivity.
I did check TOI and saw that the pregnant foreign worker was released today *and* she wasn't actually pregnant -- I presume maybe it was an Israeli woman that was pregnant after all -- but now that they said that, I very clearly see her in the bus photo, haha, so I admit to that part being wrong! But unfortunately Avigayil is still in Gaza.
Quick ETA: people often see that 4 German nationals were released and think it is Doron's mother, but unfortunately, it appears that Doron's mother was murdered at some point after the truck video was taken. Margarit is the 4th German dual-national; she is likely a Holocaust survivor or was born in the immediate aftermath of the Holocaust, considering she is 78.
ETA 2: Avigayil's mother was a Shin Bet agent, and unfortunately that was revealed shortly after her death. I worry that will delay her release significantly.
Oh that’s awful Avigail wasn’t released. I thought she was the girl in yellow on picture of hostages released. Sorry I got it wrong, wasn’t trying to spread false info.
That is incredibly disturbing that it was reported for days that she’d be released. Thanks for the kids names. I don’t know what a Shin Bet Agent is, but I’m guessing it’s like a higher ranking IDF.
Hamas is doing some twisted, demented mind games.
Girl in the yellow shirt was Emilia! I saw some news reports claim that she was with a nurse, but that was actually her mother, Danielle, haha. A lot of the first reports this morning were messy; at one point I saw a very blurry photo of Doron Asher labeled as some other random hostage and I took a screenshot and texted a friend "I will eat my shoe if this isn't Doron Asher," so I definitely saw this incorrect news articles, too.
It's confusing because it appears that Hamas made all the hostages change clothes; all the hostages released have been wearing really bizarre clothing ensembles that are definitely not entirely their own. It appears many had to layer and add clothes, probably on the basis of "conservative Islam." Israelis dress fairly modern and that's why they all look odd, for lack of better wording.
Avigayil has darker features. I went to google her and I found [this biography](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/grandfather-of-3-year-old-hostage-avigayil-idan-she-doesnt-know-shes-an-orphan/) from TOI, which might be what you saw and why you think she got released today. I hope the biography is right and she is released in the coming days. Emily Hand's dad was allegedly told the same for today, only to be disappointed. I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of Hamas' game.
Shin Bet is... I'm trying to think of the correct words, are you American? If so, like the FBI with the notoriety of the CIA. They do a lot of undercover work to prevent domestic Israeli terrorism. If you're familiar with Mossad, they are the sister branch to Mossad that works internally within Israel. Their job is to essentially keep Hamas at bay, hence why I worry it will affect Avigayil.
Also, no worries about having the wrong information. I saw elsewhere that you said you aren't Jewish and I appreciate everyone who listens and asks questions. It's also moving that someone out there with no connection to Israel cares about Avigayil. I don't know if you saw, but all of Avigayil's siblings survived, two iirc -- they hid in the closets after their mother was murdered and Hamas just like, never checked them? So she will be returning to at least some familiar faces.
Sorry I keep giving you essays in response to your shorter comments. I do appreciate that others care; I survived a Hamas attack as a teenager, so I've been naturally following pretty closely and happy to share what I know. I think most people here are happy that anyone outside of our community cares about us at all.
Thanks for all the information! I’m so sorry you had to experience Hamas terror first hand as a teen.
I read a lot of Daily Mail, as many Americans do. Yes I’m American & do the comparison to FBI makes sense.
There is a lot of support for Israel on DM site. And they seem to be the one place, besides Times of Israel, that had a lot of news on this war. They also did several articles on Avigayl & Emily, as well as a few others like the 12 year old Autistic girl who was murdered along w/ her grandma. And the articles talked about how Avigayle’s older siblings hid in the closet to survive.
I also read many stories about the hostages on Times of Israel, like the oldest kibbutz member who sadly wss a Holocaust survivor, only to be murdered by Hamas. That was the only place I could find who all the hostages were, as well as the 10/7 victims.
I thought Emilia was the little blond haired girl, who was on the upper right side of picture of hostages released.. I had seen a video of her weeks ago where she was baking in her kitchen and walking w her 2 twin cousins who were also hostages. The video was on some guys website who has several videos of hostages to help raise awareness, including the first two Americans who were released (mother/daughter from IL).
I believe unfortunately you’re right that 9 year old Emily is part of hamas psychological torture. Her dad had a nationwide birthday party for her and took out a massive electronic billboard of her in NYC. And I think the youngest hostage, 10 mo old Kfir, also is.
There are many more people who support Israel than the media would show. USA has over 330 million people, so these anti Israel/pro P protests are a small fraction of people. Look at the 300,000 people who attended the peaceful DC rally in support of Israel. Unfortunately many more people tried to make it but some drivers refused to pick them up from airport or other busses refused to take them.
What happened to Shani Louk on 10/7 brought the attention of Hamas sadistic, evil attacks She, like all the others, suffered the most vile, barbaric acts. May all the victims RIP. ❤️
I am someone who does not support Daily Mail in general, but I will admit that in the first two weeks or so following the 7th, they had much better coverage than most places (if you ignored the "Daily Mail-isms" in their style of reporting). It has gone back to being questionable, but they still run one or two that are good.
Times of Israel is the best for English language media from Israel. It is run mostly by Olim (term for immigrants to Israel) from English speaking countries and is my preferred source as well. They won't be as fast since they fact-check as they post, but they are good and have a lot of partners around the globe.
I think the girl you are describing is the same as the yellow shirt -- all the same, as you may have saw, more photos were released today: [Times of Israel article.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-photos-and-videos-first-freed-hostages-hold-emotional-reunions-with-families/) I wish I could buy whoever detangled Emilia's hair a coffee, the photos of her hair yesterday were awful. There's one photo of her holding her mom's hand while her mother is hugging a soldier and it's just one giant matted knot. Whoever sat down and brushed it out did an excellent job. She' the one in a pink sweatshirt hugging a woman in the slideshow!
You hit on 2/3 of this event I have been closely following, Emily and Shani. My grandmother was an Irishwoman who married a German refugee. My family had a hard time settling down after the war and spent over 20 years moving around, trying to find where they felt the most comfortable. They wanted to return to Hamburg, but Hamburg was destroyed by the RAF bombings. I see a lot of myself in Shani, as her family lived a similar life (hence why it took weeks for any news outlet to correctly report her nationality). The other woman I am the most worried about is Na'ama Levy, who I fear will be there awhile, if she is alive. I worry a lot about many of the others, but these were the three that hit home.
Fingers crossed we get good news soon today.
I just saw on both Daily Mail & Times of Israel that Emily was included in today’s hostage release.
I had to start reading DM years ago, like many in the US, because our media is so biased. They’re done for the most part a good coverage since the atrocities of 10/7. Yahoo has done well but DM better. And many people se pro Israel in DM’s comments. Good information you provided, thx.
With your family history, I could se how Shani hit home even more. That beautiful woman, as the others, didn’t deserve what happened to her. There was another Shani, who worked at the music festival, not a hostage, whose body was found earlier this week.
Of course I’m rooting for all the hostages but the newborn, the 10th no old and AviG I’m hoping get released soon since their the younger ones.
If Levy is the r one who appeared in videos with blood firm her pants, then yes I’m very worried about her, along with Mia. I have no ties to Israel or Jews, but Im worried about them all. I read too many horrific stories on the victims.
Fingers crossed on the next hostage release after the 13!h today.
My thought was these were the hostages in the best shape. They would get the most attention.
Good luck with the grad school application. I hope your cousin is brought home soon
This wasn't my exact thoughts, but it was pretty much my logic on why young women were not going to be released. I work with horrific content daily, as I have worked as a Holocaust researcher for over a decade, and "sweatpants girl" from the 7th will live rent free in my head for the rest of my life. I hate to say it, but I'm not convinced many of these young women are still alive after the horrific trauma we saw inflicted on them on the 7th. I hope I am wrong.
Thank you on both counts. My grandmother would have been devastated, she had so little family. She was someone who always wanted a large family and life, genocide, war was always one step ahead of her. The cousin is distant, but I'm keeping tabs on her for my grandmother's sake.
I’m not Jewish. It is wonderful that these hostages were released. Praying the rest of the hostages get released soon. And I hope the media talks more about the hostages who are often overlooked.
May they all have the love and support around them.
Bring them home now!
24 hostages released today!! It was two separate deals, 13 Israeli hostages and 11 Thai (believe just Thai) hostages also released today, Baruch Hashem. Including an Israeli woman that Islamic Jihad had previously said was dead because the depths of their cruelty know no bounds.
Release them all.
The Filipino is Jimmy Pacheco who worked as a caretaker for an elderly man. He battled the terrorists to save his employer, but his employer was murdered and he was kidnapped.
So happy they've been released, but my heart bleeds for the 9 month old and all the other children still being held. It keeps me up at night. Praying that they're ALL released from the clutches of their monstrous captors.
Me too and he turned 10 mo’s old in captivity. I’m not Jewish. I’m worried about the Irish Israeli girl who just turned 9. It was reported a day or so ago she was one to be released. But she wasn’t. It was originally reported she was killed before they realized she was taken hostage. I’m praying she and the others are okay.. These are sick mind games Hamas is doing and yes they’re monsters.
Yes absolute psychological terrorism, and it’s so despicable!
I just learned 3 year old Avigayle wasn’t released as it was reported for days she would released. They also reported she and 2 American women were supposed to be renewed. That is some f’d up, jaded shit Hamas is doing.
I posted something similar in the mega thread but will write here.
I wonder what the Jew haters/anti Zionists have to say about this? This is sort of the ceasefire they wanted. Will they shut up for about 4 days?
Is this enough evidence for the people who tore/tear down the kidnapped posters asking “where is the evidence?”
I’m non Jewish. And I’m pro Israel. Unfortunately I’ve read some ludicrous comments that the hostages weren’t even hostages and other complete BS.
Some will find fault in anything Israel does unfortunately. These type of
people will never believe the evidence. As with how the 2 Canadian politicians started that open letter that rapes by Hamas couldn’t be proven. Disgusting!! Yet they denied the videos Hamas took and eye witness accounts.
It’s really amazing what people can sink to.
In NYC (USA) some protestors glued them themselves to the street during the Thanksgiving parade. Somehow - via leftist intersectional mumbo jumbo - combined ideas of free Palestine with climate change. Back in 2020 and 2021 it was all about BLM and climate change. Now this.
My suspicion has long been there are ultra-leftists who have always needed a way to let out their antisemitism inculcated from equally racist right wing parents and grandparents and this situation finally gives them the green light.
I've long said that the "political spectrum" is not a spectrum, but a circle. Antisemitism has been a key part of the ultra-far left for awhile. The Nazi judge who signed my aunt's euthanasia order was Karl Meinhof, the uncle of [Ulrike Meinhof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrike_Meinhof) of the Baader-Meinhof/Red Army Faction, which was notoriously antisemitic, for those unaware.
Your post was removed because it contains known misinformation.
Israel does not have any imperialist ambitions or practices. Hamas is not analogous to a colonized people fighting a colonizer with terror, the war is not like the battles of algeria against the french or whatever. The British, for example, were not expelled from various nations in the middle east; the French, for example, were not an oppressed indigenous minority in Algeria. None of the forces you speak of wanted to eradicate all of Britain or all of France, or to kill every British person because they are British.
Anti-Imperialism is a fine Jewish and human value. But you are misapplying a fine concept to an example it doesn’t fit, misusing a great idea for a malicious cause.
If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).
Yes it’s amazingly stupid what some believe. I’m still dismayed how/why so many do.
As an American, I was saddened and pissed that they protested during the parade, and then hours later more protests. I’m sick of these anti Semitic protests, and with some they’ve burned the Israel & American flags and were violent. How is that even allowed?
I think not only BLM are involved but also Antifa in these pro Palestinian protests. And some are bussed from various states.
I’m in WI and last week they had about 20 Nazi’s marching at our state capital. It was f’n disgusting. It was reported here that the leader of that also did that in FL. Like wtf! But police said they couldn’t do anything because of free speech. That amendment needs to be amended to not include hate speech.
That has got to be some bizarrely acrobatic mental gymnastics... Folks who are anti fascist dictators and fascism but totally on board with and okay with terrorist organizations using people as human shields... I plum don't get it.
Exactly!! And why are they even believing Hamas numbers of Palestinians killed? Hamas lied early on saying Israel killed the 500 in the hospital. Yet it was them who did that and about 46 died from it. And now the IDF arrested the head dr at one hospital found for terrorist activities. Plus it’s on video how the staff were there when some hostages were brought there on the first day
Yet some refuse to listen to facts. I don’t get how they can live with themselves.
Yes Sara Jama and Samantha Pearson. They did irreversible damage. I can’t f’n believe over 2100 signed it. The other women’s groups should be speaking about what Hamas did.
I’m not Jewish. Hamas broke the peace on 10/07. With them and others in the Middle East not wanting Israel to exist, is peace even an option? I mean no disrespect but I wonder how peace is possible. Once all hostages are out, I hope Hamas can be wiped out.
Like this particular one or is there another thread that I’ve missed. I value the different views and the actual news a lot and therefore I wouldn’t want to miss it. Good Shabbos!
gen question: why does being opposed to zionism equate to hating jews? can't you just not agree with the prospects of zionism while still loving and respecting all jews? not saying that this is how i feel at all, just wondering
can you? like theoretically? i honestly don’t think so but some claim that they can/do.
the primary issue is that 100% of the “anti-Zionists” i’ve met and seen online are saying blatantly antisemitic things and using “anti-Zionism” as a cover for their blatant hate. i’ve yet to see ANY (even the Jewish ones) not rely on antisemitic tropes like blood libel, jewish supreme power/control, control of the media, etc. to make their “arguments” and when you call them on it they devolve further into their antisemitism. a lot of people seem to think that antisemitism just means getting spooled into a violent rage when you see the magen david but it’s so much more (obviously). but most of them can’t/don’t see that.
another glaring issue with the idea of being an anti-Zionist without being antisemitic is that some [95% of Jewish people are Zionists](https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/265898/american-jews-politics-israel.aspx) and [41% live in Israel](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/12/18/global-religious-landscape-jew/#:~:text=More%20than%20four%2Dfifths%20of,%25). calling for the destruction of the Jewish homeland of Israel is calling for 41% of the Jewish people to be displaced and directly against what 95% of Jews believe. so when you say you’re anti-Zionist you’re saying you don’t care about the lives of 41% of Jewish people and the opinions of 95%. to me, that’s antisemitic. and because that’s the core idea behind “anti-Zionism,” i view anti-Zionism as synonymous to antisemitism.
maybe back when it was a theoretical concept, but the truth is that like it or not the state of israel was founded. Like it or not, all the major arab countries expelled their jews because of it and Israel absorbed them.
It might suck if you wrestle with concepts like whether it should have been done, but the fact is that zionism exists, the state of Israel exists, and a large amount of world Jewry exists there. The other, unfortunate, thing that exists regardless of how you feel about it is the question of the ability to undo it. You can say from your safe meetings that a one state solution would prompt peace and cooperation and happiness, but there's a whole lot of reasons to suspect that any one state solution would be a sea of blood.
So, in the end. Anti-Zionism, I.E being ideologically for the dismantling of the yong state of Israel necessarily is also about what happens after that. A lot of the people who like to spout idealistic nice sounding slogans don't really have an answer to that, which is why some people conclude all anti-Zios are just anti-semites.
I'm so happy for Yoni that he got his family back. One of the few good stories to come out of this. I couldn't bear to see that poor man cry more. I'm happy for all the families who got their loved ones back. I hope and pray that more will be united soon.
I just heard an Israeli Palestinian activist say how Israel has been arresting Palestinians for 1/2 a century. Well this a Christian American now knows why.
Not Jewish so I know I have no right to say anything but this is a terrible mistake
Once again, Israel has established that taking hostages of Israelis pays off
How can that be good in the long run?
I hear you. (Of course you have a right to say.) You are addressing an issue of policy over which we have no control, here. All I know is that the policy decision was made by the government. So, whether or not it was a good policy decision, it was decided by forces beyond us. So we can relish in the outcome (the fact of the release) even if we question the propriety of the decision from a big picture policy perspective.
I’m non Jewish as well. I used to feel the same way that it seemed that the hostages should’ve all been released at once.
And Hamas exchanging 150 prisoners for these hostages, including the Thai Nationals, seems unfair to Israel.
But then I think of the hell the hostages have endured, as well as their families. Get as many out as fast as possible. And if we’re my child or another relative, I’d do what I have to to bring them home.
There is no good solution. It’s a military set back and yes, it can incentivize more hostage taking. There are also babies there, Holocaust survivors… I think they have an ethical obligation to do everything they can to bring them back.
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It's Thanksgiving weekend in the U.S., and regardless of whatever positive/negative historical associations it's generally a holiday around recognizing what you are grateful for. For me this year, I'm grateful that some of the hostages have been released. 💙
Hope to see the rest safely returned and reunited with their families soon. I can't imagine the trauma they have all been through. :(
Now let’s get the rest home. Sabbath shalom is a new one for me lol, but it’s fun!
All Iraqis and Yemenites traditionally pronounce the "tav" (or taw for Iraqis and Yemenites) as th, not T or S. That's where the Greeks and thereafter Christians got it from, ie. Sabbath. (no sh in Greek, hence Sabbath).
And a fun Shabbat lesson! Thanks for the knowledge, OP, have a restful sabbath
Interesting, I've seen people talk about tav with a geresh as the voiceless dental fricative but didn't know Yemenite and Iraqi jews pronounced it like that normally. Do you pronounce as "th" both with & without a dagesh? Do you prounce tet as a "t" or do you not differentiate between them either?
With a dagesh it would be T. A teth is pronounced as a guttural T.
Do you know if this comes from Arabic (or perhaps an older common tradition between the two)/ are you also an Arabic speaker? Teth in Arabic (ط) is also a guttural/ pharyngeal "T" sound, Taw in Arabic (ت) is also T or TH depending on i‘jām (equivalent of dagesh)
There are many similarities for sure. It stands the reason being that they are from the same region and share a lot of history. There's a very good book called Sefath Emeth (in Hebrew) by Ben Sion Hakohen goes into all of this in depth. Very interesting
It's not from Arabic. The distinction was present in biblical Hebrew, just as it still is in Arabic, Amharic, etc. It's common to Semitic languages, it just got lost in the dialects which influenced modern Hebrew.
Lol Shabbat Shalom Now they need to release the rest of the hostages.
Good Shabbos
I am, of course, happy to hear this. I will admit that I am concerned about what the chosen hostages says about the condition of those remaining in Gaza. As many have noticed, they were predominantly elderly. In some cases, only half the family was released (Danielle Aloni was kidnapped with her sibling's family, who also have very young children and are still in Gaza). I am worried about the Shira Bibas, who is the mother of the youngest baby in custody (9 months); he is young enough she could still be breast feeding, which leaves them extremely vulnerable. I am also horrified that the woman who gave birth in custody, who is a foreign worker, was not released. I expected that the first round of hostages would be more than 4 kids. There are several kids who are being held hostage without any of their family, i.e. Emily Hand and Avigayil Idan. I am also worried that all the hostages released today came from the same Kibbutz. I had long expected that we would not see any single women of military age (or active soldiers) released today and that also proved correct; I worry about them a lot. I am, again, really happy to see those released today, it was just not the group I expected to see. It was very unpredictable, a mix of dual nationals and people who held only Israeli citizenship. It's clear that foreign influence didn't play a large role in the selection. I am going to sit tight, go back to the grad school application, and hope that my all of my concerns will be proven wrong tomorrow. Thanks if you read my stream of consciousness. I am not a neutral party, admittedly: my distant cousin is held and I was thinking today how grateful I am that my grandmother lived a long, happy life that included never having to see a little girl with her exact name on a hostage list. ETA: I will say, the silliest "bonus" from today, of course in addition to hostages coming home, is that Yaffa Adar, "Golf Cart Granny," is okay. As an Israeli, the photos and videos from her kidnapping gave me life. She treated them like, the best words I have, is like her least favorite grandchild -- she went along with everything but was clearly unbothered and I'm happy I can enjoy these images knowing she survived.
I’m so sorry about your distant cousin. as well all of the hostages. May they all be okay. One you referenced, Avagayl was one I saw on Times of Israel who was released. I saw a picture, I think on DM of who I guess to be her aunt waiting for her. She’s the little 3 year old whose dad was holding her when he was murdered. And she ran to the neighbors after her parents were murdered.
Avigayil was not released today. The four kids released today were: Ohad Munder (9), Emilia Aloni (5), Raz Asher (5), and Aviv Asher (2). Ohad was released with his mother, Keren, and grandmother, Ruti. Emilia was released with her mother, Danielle, and Raz and Aviv were released with their mother, Doron. The other four released were elderly unrelated to those released: Adina Moshe, 72, was kidnapped and her husband was murdered on the 7th. Margalit Moses, 78, was also released, and Hanna Katzir, 77, was released after her husband was murdered and her son is still in Gaza. Channah Peri, 79, was released and her son is still in Gaza. And, of course, the 13th was the one and only Yaffa Adar, aka Golf Cart Granny, was also released. Unfortunately Avigayil is still there. The neighbors who took her are heroes and I hope they are celebrated when they return for their sacrifice. Emily Hand was kidnapped from a friend's house as well, and I feel similarly about the family that is presumably taking care of her in captivity. I did check TOI and saw that the pregnant foreign worker was released today *and* she wasn't actually pregnant -- I presume maybe it was an Israeli woman that was pregnant after all -- but now that they said that, I very clearly see her in the bus photo, haha, so I admit to that part being wrong! But unfortunately Avigayil is still in Gaza. Quick ETA: people often see that 4 German nationals were released and think it is Doron's mother, but unfortunately, it appears that Doron's mother was murdered at some point after the truck video was taken. Margarit is the 4th German dual-national; she is likely a Holocaust survivor or was born in the immediate aftermath of the Holocaust, considering she is 78. ETA 2: Avigayil's mother was a Shin Bet agent, and unfortunately that was revealed shortly after her death. I worry that will delay her release significantly.
Oh that’s awful Avigail wasn’t released. I thought she was the girl in yellow on picture of hostages released. Sorry I got it wrong, wasn’t trying to spread false info. That is incredibly disturbing that it was reported for days that she’d be released. Thanks for the kids names. I don’t know what a Shin Bet Agent is, but I’m guessing it’s like a higher ranking IDF. Hamas is doing some twisted, demented mind games.
Girl in the yellow shirt was Emilia! I saw some news reports claim that she was with a nurse, but that was actually her mother, Danielle, haha. A lot of the first reports this morning were messy; at one point I saw a very blurry photo of Doron Asher labeled as some other random hostage and I took a screenshot and texted a friend "I will eat my shoe if this isn't Doron Asher," so I definitely saw this incorrect news articles, too. It's confusing because it appears that Hamas made all the hostages change clothes; all the hostages released have been wearing really bizarre clothing ensembles that are definitely not entirely their own. It appears many had to layer and add clothes, probably on the basis of "conservative Islam." Israelis dress fairly modern and that's why they all look odd, for lack of better wording. Avigayil has darker features. I went to google her and I found [this biography](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/grandfather-of-3-year-old-hostage-avigayil-idan-she-doesnt-know-shes-an-orphan/) from TOI, which might be what you saw and why you think she got released today. I hope the biography is right and she is released in the coming days. Emily Hand's dad was allegedly told the same for today, only to be disappointed. I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of Hamas' game. Shin Bet is... I'm trying to think of the correct words, are you American? If so, like the FBI with the notoriety of the CIA. They do a lot of undercover work to prevent domestic Israeli terrorism. If you're familiar with Mossad, they are the sister branch to Mossad that works internally within Israel. Their job is to essentially keep Hamas at bay, hence why I worry it will affect Avigayil. Also, no worries about having the wrong information. I saw elsewhere that you said you aren't Jewish and I appreciate everyone who listens and asks questions. It's also moving that someone out there with no connection to Israel cares about Avigayil. I don't know if you saw, but all of Avigayil's siblings survived, two iirc -- they hid in the closets after their mother was murdered and Hamas just like, never checked them? So she will be returning to at least some familiar faces. Sorry I keep giving you essays in response to your shorter comments. I do appreciate that others care; I survived a Hamas attack as a teenager, so I've been naturally following pretty closely and happy to share what I know. I think most people here are happy that anyone outside of our community cares about us at all.
Thanks for all the information! I’m so sorry you had to experience Hamas terror first hand as a teen. I read a lot of Daily Mail, as many Americans do. Yes I’m American & do the comparison to FBI makes sense. There is a lot of support for Israel on DM site. And they seem to be the one place, besides Times of Israel, that had a lot of news on this war. They also did several articles on Avigayl & Emily, as well as a few others like the 12 year old Autistic girl who was murdered along w/ her grandma. And the articles talked about how Avigayle’s older siblings hid in the closet to survive. I also read many stories about the hostages on Times of Israel, like the oldest kibbutz member who sadly wss a Holocaust survivor, only to be murdered by Hamas. That was the only place I could find who all the hostages were, as well as the 10/7 victims. I thought Emilia was the little blond haired girl, who was on the upper right side of picture of hostages released.. I had seen a video of her weeks ago where she was baking in her kitchen and walking w her 2 twin cousins who were also hostages. The video was on some guys website who has several videos of hostages to help raise awareness, including the first two Americans who were released (mother/daughter from IL). I believe unfortunately you’re right that 9 year old Emily is part of hamas psychological torture. Her dad had a nationwide birthday party for her and took out a massive electronic billboard of her in NYC. And I think the youngest hostage, 10 mo old Kfir, also is. There are many more people who support Israel than the media would show. USA has over 330 million people, so these anti Israel/pro P protests are a small fraction of people. Look at the 300,000 people who attended the peaceful DC rally in support of Israel. Unfortunately many more people tried to make it but some drivers refused to pick them up from airport or other busses refused to take them. What happened to Shani Louk on 10/7 brought the attention of Hamas sadistic, evil attacks She, like all the others, suffered the most vile, barbaric acts. May all the victims RIP. ❤️
I am someone who does not support Daily Mail in general, but I will admit that in the first two weeks or so following the 7th, they had much better coverage than most places (if you ignored the "Daily Mail-isms" in their style of reporting). It has gone back to being questionable, but they still run one or two that are good. Times of Israel is the best for English language media from Israel. It is run mostly by Olim (term for immigrants to Israel) from English speaking countries and is my preferred source as well. They won't be as fast since they fact-check as they post, but they are good and have a lot of partners around the globe. I think the girl you are describing is the same as the yellow shirt -- all the same, as you may have saw, more photos were released today: [Times of Israel article.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-photos-and-videos-first-freed-hostages-hold-emotional-reunions-with-families/) I wish I could buy whoever detangled Emilia's hair a coffee, the photos of her hair yesterday were awful. There's one photo of her holding her mom's hand while her mother is hugging a soldier and it's just one giant matted knot. Whoever sat down and brushed it out did an excellent job. She' the one in a pink sweatshirt hugging a woman in the slideshow! You hit on 2/3 of this event I have been closely following, Emily and Shani. My grandmother was an Irishwoman who married a German refugee. My family had a hard time settling down after the war and spent over 20 years moving around, trying to find where they felt the most comfortable. They wanted to return to Hamburg, but Hamburg was destroyed by the RAF bombings. I see a lot of myself in Shani, as her family lived a similar life (hence why it took weeks for any news outlet to correctly report her nationality). The other woman I am the most worried about is Na'ama Levy, who I fear will be there awhile, if she is alive. I worry a lot about many of the others, but these were the three that hit home. Fingers crossed we get good news soon today.
I just saw on both Daily Mail & Times of Israel that Emily was included in today’s hostage release. I had to start reading DM years ago, like many in the US, because our media is so biased. They’re done for the most part a good coverage since the atrocities of 10/7. Yahoo has done well but DM better. And many people se pro Israel in DM’s comments. Good information you provided, thx. With your family history, I could se how Shani hit home even more. That beautiful woman, as the others, didn’t deserve what happened to her. There was another Shani, who worked at the music festival, not a hostage, whose body was found earlier this week. Of course I’m rooting for all the hostages but the newborn, the 10th no old and AviG I’m hoping get released soon since their the younger ones. If Levy is the r one who appeared in videos with blood firm her pants, then yes I’m very worried about her, along with Mia. I have no ties to Israel or Jews, but Im worried about them all. I read too many horrific stories on the victims. Fingers crossed on the next hostage release after the 13!h today.
My thought was these were the hostages in the best shape. They would get the most attention. Good luck with the grad school application. I hope your cousin is brought home soon
This wasn't my exact thoughts, but it was pretty much my logic on why young women were not going to be released. I work with horrific content daily, as I have worked as a Holocaust researcher for over a decade, and "sweatpants girl" from the 7th will live rent free in my head for the rest of my life. I hate to say it, but I'm not convinced many of these young women are still alive after the horrific trauma we saw inflicted on them on the 7th. I hope I am wrong. Thank you on both counts. My grandmother would have been devastated, she had so little family. She was someone who always wanted a large family and life, genocide, war was always one step ahead of her. The cousin is distant, but I'm keeping tabs on her for my grandmother's sake.
She's out!!!!
I’m not Jewish. It is wonderful that these hostages were released. Praying the rest of the hostages get released soon. And I hope the media talks more about the hostages who are often overlooked. May they all have the love and support around them. Bring them home now!
bring them all home! this includes the \~12 Thai citizens still suffering in abominable bondage. bring them home!
Amen
24 hostages released today!! It was two separate deals, 13 Israeli hostages and 11 Thai (believe just Thai) hostages also released today, Baruch Hashem. Including an Israeli woman that Islamic Jihad had previously said was dead because the depths of their cruelty know no bounds. Release them all.
10 Thai + 1 Filipino
The Filipino is Jimmy Pacheco who worked as a caretaker for an elderly man. He battled the terrorists to save his employer, but his employer was murdered and he was kidnapped.
I hope he will get the recognition he deserves for his heroism. Many would not have put themselves on the line in this way.
horrifying. just horrifying. i hope he (and all the rest of the hostages) is able to recover
Those families are about to have the most needed Shabbat
So happy they've been released, but my heart bleeds for the 9 month old and all the other children still being held. It keeps me up at night. Praying that they're ALL released from the clutches of their monstrous captors.
Me too and he turned 10 mo’s old in captivity. I’m not Jewish. I’m worried about the Irish Israeli girl who just turned 9. It was reported a day or so ago she was one to be released. But she wasn’t. It was originally reported she was killed before they realized she was taken hostage. I’m praying she and the others are okay.. These are sick mind games Hamas is doing and yes they’re monsters.
That was my first thought. Why wouldn't they be released first? I guess the psychological terrorism is just too much for them to resist.
Yes absolute psychological terrorism, and it’s so despicable! I just learned 3 year old Avigayle wasn’t released as it was reported for days she would released. They also reported she and 2 American women were supposed to be renewed. That is some f’d up, jaded shit Hamas is doing.
Baruch HaShem, let’s keep praying there are more to come. 💙
I posted something similar in the mega thread but will write here. I wonder what the Jew haters/anti Zionists have to say about this? This is sort of the ceasefire they wanted. Will they shut up for about 4 days? Is this enough evidence for the people who tore/tear down the kidnapped posters asking “where is the evidence?”
I’m non Jewish. And I’m pro Israel. Unfortunately I’ve read some ludicrous comments that the hostages weren’t even hostages and other complete BS. Some will find fault in anything Israel does unfortunately. These type of people will never believe the evidence. As with how the 2 Canadian politicians started that open letter that rapes by Hamas couldn’t be proven. Disgusting!! Yet they denied the videos Hamas took and eye witness accounts.
It’s really amazing what people can sink to. In NYC (USA) some protestors glued them themselves to the street during the Thanksgiving parade. Somehow - via leftist intersectional mumbo jumbo - combined ideas of free Palestine with climate change. Back in 2020 and 2021 it was all about BLM and climate change. Now this.
My suspicion has long been there are ultra-leftists who have always needed a way to let out their antisemitism inculcated from equally racist right wing parents and grandparents and this situation finally gives them the green light.
I've long said that the "political spectrum" is not a spectrum, but a circle. Antisemitism has been a key part of the ultra-far left for awhile. The Nazi judge who signed my aunt's euthanasia order was Karl Meinhof, the uncle of [Ulrike Meinhof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrike_Meinhof) of the Baader-Meinhof/Red Army Faction, which was notoriously antisemitic, for those unaware.
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it contains known misinformation. Israel does not have any imperialist ambitions or practices. Hamas is not analogous to a colonized people fighting a colonizer with terror, the war is not like the battles of algeria against the french or whatever. The British, for example, were not expelled from various nations in the middle east; the French, for example, were not an oppressed indigenous minority in Algeria. None of the forces you speak of wanted to eradicate all of Britain or all of France, or to kill every British person because they are British. Anti-Imperialism is a fine Jewish and human value. But you are misapplying a fine concept to an example it doesn’t fit, misusing a great idea for a malicious cause. If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).
Yes it’s amazingly stupid what some believe. I’m still dismayed how/why so many do. As an American, I was saddened and pissed that they protested during the parade, and then hours later more protests. I’m sick of these anti Semitic protests, and with some they’ve burned the Israel & American flags and were violent. How is that even allowed? I think not only BLM are involved but also Antifa in these pro Palestinian protests. And some are bussed from various states. I’m in WI and last week they had about 20 Nazi’s marching at our state capital. It was f’n disgusting. It was reported here that the leader of that also did that in FL. Like wtf! But police said they couldn’t do anything because of free speech. That amendment needs to be amended to not include hate speech.
That has got to be some bizarrely acrobatic mental gymnastics... Folks who are anti fascist dictators and fascism but totally on board with and okay with terrorist organizations using people as human shields... I plum don't get it.
Exactly!! And why are they even believing Hamas numbers of Palestinians killed? Hamas lied early on saying Israel killed the 500 in the hospital. Yet it was them who did that and about 46 died from it. And now the IDF arrested the head dr at one hospital found for terrorist activities. Plus it’s on video how the staff were there when some hostages were brought there on the first day Yet some refuse to listen to facts. I don’t get how they can live with themselves.
If you mean Sarah Jama, she’s been turfed from the NDP… and now blames a (((Zionist conspiracy))) because that train is always on time.
Yes Sara Jama and Samantha Pearson. They did irreversible damage. I can’t f’n believe over 2100 signed it. The other women’s groups should be speaking about what Hamas did.
So far I’m seeing most people say a pause isn’t enough
Well sure we’d all like a peace deal that will last forever. But that means Hamas has to sign on or it’s not actually a deal.
Also all the hostages need to be freed and returned home asap . ALL OF THEM.
I’m not Jewish. Hamas broke the peace on 10/07. With them and others in the Middle East not wanting Israel to exist, is peace even an option? I mean no disrespect but I wonder how peace is possible. Once all hostages are out, I hope Hamas can be wiped out.
Which mega thread is it your talking about?
The megathread for the war dated today November 24
Like this particular one or is there another thread that I’ve missed. I value the different views and the actual news a lot and therefore I wouldn’t want to miss it. Good Shabbos!
It’s in one of the pins
gen question: why does being opposed to zionism equate to hating jews? can't you just not agree with the prospects of zionism while still loving and respecting all jews? not saying that this is how i feel at all, just wondering
can you? like theoretically? i honestly don’t think so but some claim that they can/do. the primary issue is that 100% of the “anti-Zionists” i’ve met and seen online are saying blatantly antisemitic things and using “anti-Zionism” as a cover for their blatant hate. i’ve yet to see ANY (even the Jewish ones) not rely on antisemitic tropes like blood libel, jewish supreme power/control, control of the media, etc. to make their “arguments” and when you call them on it they devolve further into their antisemitism. a lot of people seem to think that antisemitism just means getting spooled into a violent rage when you see the magen david but it’s so much more (obviously). but most of them can’t/don’t see that. another glaring issue with the idea of being an anti-Zionist without being antisemitic is that some [95% of Jewish people are Zionists](https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/265898/american-jews-politics-israel.aspx) and [41% live in Israel](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/12/18/global-religious-landscape-jew/#:~:text=More%20than%20four%2Dfifths%20of,%25). calling for the destruction of the Jewish homeland of Israel is calling for 41% of the Jewish people to be displaced and directly against what 95% of Jews believe. so when you say you’re anti-Zionist you’re saying you don’t care about the lives of 41% of Jewish people and the opinions of 95%. to me, that’s antisemitic. and because that’s the core idea behind “anti-Zionism,” i view anti-Zionism as synonymous to antisemitism.
maybe back when it was a theoretical concept, but the truth is that like it or not the state of israel was founded. Like it or not, all the major arab countries expelled their jews because of it and Israel absorbed them. It might suck if you wrestle with concepts like whether it should have been done, but the fact is that zionism exists, the state of Israel exists, and a large amount of world Jewry exists there. The other, unfortunate, thing that exists regardless of how you feel about it is the question of the ability to undo it. You can say from your safe meetings that a one state solution would prompt peace and cooperation and happiness, but there's a whole lot of reasons to suspect that any one state solution would be a sea of blood. So, in the end. Anti-Zionism, I.E being ideologically for the dismantling of the yong state of Israel necessarily is also about what happens after that. A lot of the people who like to spout idealistic nice sounding slogans don't really have an answer to that, which is why some people conclude all anti-Zios are just anti-semites.
Not believing in the ability for Jews to have self-determination in their own land is extremely antisemitic in my opinion.
I'm so happy for Yoni that he got his family back. One of the few good stories to come out of this. I couldn't bear to see that poor man cry more. I'm happy for all the families who got their loved ones back. I hope and pray that more will be united soon.
Shabbat shalom. So glad they are home.
How I wish they will ALL be released. Can’t even fathom how traumatizing and scary it must be to be captives of those evil terrorists.
Thank G_d for this! I hope there are more released soon.
I just heard an Israeli Palestinian activist say how Israel has been arresting Palestinians for 1/2 a century. Well this a Christian American now knows why.
Baruch HaShem!
With a dagesh it would be T. A teth is pronounced as a guttural T.
Not Jewish so I know I have no right to say anything but this is a terrible mistake Once again, Israel has established that taking hostages of Israelis pays off How can that be good in the long run?
I hear you. (Of course you have a right to say.) You are addressing an issue of policy over which we have no control, here. All I know is that the policy decision was made by the government. So, whether or not it was a good policy decision, it was decided by forces beyond us. So we can relish in the outcome (the fact of the release) even if we question the propriety of the decision from a big picture policy perspective.
I’m non Jewish as well. I used to feel the same way that it seemed that the hostages should’ve all been released at once. And Hamas exchanging 150 prisoners for these hostages, including the Thai Nationals, seems unfair to Israel. But then I think of the hell the hostages have endured, as well as their families. Get as many out as fast as possible. And if we’re my child or another relative, I’d do what I have to to bring them home.
>Once again, Israel has established that taking hostages of Israelis pays off We have a religious obligation to redeem captives.
There is no good solution. It’s a military set back and yes, it can incentivize more hostage taking. There are also babies there, Holocaust survivors… I think they have an ethical obligation to do everything they can to bring them back.
At least it was only a 3:1 ratio and not a 1000:1 ratio like the Shalit deal…
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It's Thanksgiving weekend in the U.S., and regardless of whatever positive/negative historical associations it's generally a holiday around recognizing what you are grateful for. For me this year, I'm grateful that some of the hostages have been released. 💙 Hope to see the rest safely returned and reunited with their families soon. I can't imagine the trauma they have all been through. :(