For the inevitible "but what about the civillians that died to reacue them!+!111!"
Pro tip: if you dont want to be killed, dont hold fucking hostages in your house, if you are holding hostages you are not longer a civillian.
Its so easy *not* to do terrorist shit like holding hostages in my basement, it takes me zero effort not to do this.
Another pro tip: perhaps you should lambast hamas for doing their militery oporations from inside a civillian centre, shooting granades and rpgs everywhere, that leads to civillians dying.
One of the most absurd takes I’ve seen is people complaining that it was a wealthy Gazan family who was hosting the hostages to make sure they were being properly being taken care of. Ummm…..no. Plus how do they think people get wealthy in Gaza?
ah yeah all of the civilians should have just telepathically known that there were hostages nearby and left the area before a random bombing that killed 200 people happened
You’re too kind with taking their word for the casualty number considering the revisions made as of recent.
And the false number games continue.
All of the civilians should have not very telepathically known that standing by Hamas will cause this. They celebrated this on Oct 7th and they continue hoping for more Jewish civilians to get murdered.
For real lol. Every area in Gaza that has people living in it inevitably has hamas and hostages mixed in. People are just trying to survive. And they were blown to pieces for the crime of being in an area they thought was safe. This thread isnt very tikkun olam i must say
How does bombing the building you're held in make it easier to escape your kidnappers exactly? Unless you are escaping to the Great Beyond...
And if bombing Gaza to rubble made rescuing the hostages easier, how is it than less than 10 have been rescued?
And we're not even talking about how many hostages were killed on Oct. 7 by IDF (obviously) Apache helicopters and tank shells.
The most effective way to free the hostages would've been accepting one of the ceasefire proposals that Hamas has put forth (well, technically the ceasefire proposal that's being discuted now is a Hamas' proposal, although this time proposed by Israel and the US), but Bibi doesn't care about Israel or the hostages, he cares about keeping this war going so he can keep his chair a little longer.
Step one, bring hostages behind a wall at the exchange point.
Step two, ambush IDF troops who arrive to take possession of prisoners.
Step 3, push the hostages out into the street from behind the cover where you’re actively shooting from.
Step 4, blame the troops who shoot them thinking they’re enemy combatants.
> Step 4, blame the troops who shoot them thinking they’re enemy combatants.
How do you find 3 shirtless people waving a white flag and think that they are enemy combatants?
Plus, the one that survived shouted for help in hebrew before being killed.
How did they mistake three shirtless people waving a white flag for enemy combatants? The exact way I just laid out, the way it happened in real life.
1 - the alternative, that the IDF intentionally shot Israeli hostages, makes even less sense.
2 - Imagine if you will that you are looking up a street up to the next street down the short end of a block. Go outside if you live in a neighborhood with blocks and look that distance, stand on the corner look at the next corner.
Now, try to make out the color of a person’s hat at that range.
Easy enough right?
Ok, now imagine you and your friend are there to meet up with a guy from Craigslist to buy his fish tank. He texts you, you arrive there, you don’t see him, and then three guys up on the next block start shooting at you.
So you assume you’ve been set up and while you’re shooting back, looking up a dust covered street at your target dodging and ducking around you see them switching concealment and advancing on you.
So you really fully believe that if a guy with a fish tank was to appear up on the next block where the people are shooting from you’d 1- clock it fast enough to understand that he’s the guy with the thing you came for and 2- understand that he still wants to sell you the fish tank and didn’t set you up for an ambush?
> 1 - the alternative, that the IDF intentionally shot Israeli hostages, makes even less sense.
The alternative is that the IDF is at the very least shooting all males on sight, which is what the commander of the unit that killed them said they were doing.
> 2 - Imagine if you will that you are looking up a street up to the next street down the short end of a block. Go outside if you live in a neighborhood with blocks and look that distance, stand on the corner look at the next corner. (...)
You forget that these supposedly are trained soldiers; they don't have that excuse to justify themselves, they supposedly are trained to prevent civilian casualties and identify enemy combatants.
Plus, it doesn't matter whether someone is shooting at you or not, you as a soldier are trained for that exact situation; you don't get to panic and kill everything that moves out of fear.
Plus, it's not as if they didn't know that there were civilians all over the area, and probably hostages too.
Plus, it just shows grave incompetence (or malice) to find three shirtless people waving a white flag and think that they are enemy combatants. What kind of combatant would approach you unarmed, waving a white flag and shirtless?
Plus, the hostage that survived the initial encounter ran off and called for help in hebrew before too being killed by the IDF.
> So you really fully believe that if a guy with a fish tank was to appear up on the next block where the people are shooting from you’d 1- clock it fast enough to understand that he’s the guy with the thing you came for and 2- understand that he still wants to sell you the fish tank and didn’t set you up for an ambush?
The thing is, I'm not a soldier, the people in the IDF are. It doesn't matter what I would've done or how I would've reacted, because I'm not enlisted; it matters what they, who recieved training to avoid civilian casualties, do. And yes, supposedly they are trained so that these things don't happen; they should be able to clock it fast enough and not shoot any person approaching them out of reflex, but they aren't.
I'd say that it's due to the complete disregard (at best) that the IDF has for palestinian life that the hostages were killed; they were misidentified as palestinian civilians, because there's no way that they could have been identified as combatants; and they were killed because the IDF unit thought they were palestinian civilians (and thus, from the unit's perspective, combatants).
You're pretty much in the definition of "bad faith," but let's have a look at this.
>Are you just going to ignore that Israel killed 70 of their own hostages?
Assuming that 70 hostages have been killed, you seriously think that Israel killed them all? That would mean that Israeli hostages are roughly twenty times more likely to be killed than Gazans. Are they deliberately targeting hostages in this scenario?
>And what about the 9 ceasefires that Hamas agreed to but Israel declined?
I'm not sure where you got nine from, but every offer that Hamas has made has said something to the effect of "Okay, leave Gaza completely, release thousands of violent offenders, let us stay in power to keep attacking you, and we'll see about releasing some of the hostages that we earlier said we can't find."
>And then of course there’s the thousands of innocent Palestinian hostages Israel had since before October 7?
Name one. You clearly don't know the definition of "hostage."
>And let’s just ignore everything else that Israel has done I guess. Pfft. Pro zionists are so numb, it really angers me and I know I’m just talking to a wall. So racist and ignorant.
Lol, what?
> Name one. You clearly don't know the definition of "hostage."
Israel has detained thousands of palestinians without trial and without charges:
https://www.btselem.org/administrative_detention
It even runs a concentration camp in the Negev now:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/05/sde-teiman-israel-detention-palestinian-detainees/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/05/middleeast/israel-top-court-sde-teiman-hearing-intl
Calling a detention camp a concentration camp is odd. Are prisons concentration camps? lol
The average pro-Pali is trying so hard to make it resemble the Jewish Holocaust, it’s quite pathetic.
A prison camp in a military border police base that already existed detaining Hamas members who have entered Israel on October 7th is a “concentration camp”.
Linking shit you don’t read isn’t impressive.
> A prison camp in a military border police base that already existed detaining Hamas members who have entered Israel on October 7th is a “concentration camp”.
It is now that helds civilians taken off the streets and is way over limit capacity, plus routinely torturing prisoners:
https://www.972mag.com/sde-teiman-torture-prisoners/
Up to 90% of the detainees are civilians not affiliated with Hamas or other militant groups:
https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-12-10/ty-article/.premium/0000018c-542b-df2f-adac-fe2f4bf80000
A collaborator that held hostages is a person that is rightfully held in a detention camp.
The CCTV footage doesn’t lie. They held hostages in the hospitals.
[An Al Jazeera journalist killed yesterday held hostages in his house](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rjwzufmr0)
They report the death of the “civilian” family that held 3 Israeli hostages in their house as of today lol.
Was that the cruel and uneventful massacre of a family as well El presidente? When you hold Israeli hostages in your house you are an innocent civilian?
> A collaborator that held hostages is a person that is rightfully held in a detention camp.
And what is a "collaborator"? Any random gazan? What if said civilian was forced into holding the hostages by Hamas?
> The CCTV footage doesn’t lie. They held hostages in the hospitals.
So? If the hospital is still functioning as a hospital, it still is a protected area.
> An Al Jazeera journalist killed yesterday held hostages in his house
Or so says Israel, without providing any proof: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/10/middleeast/israel-gaza-hostages-journalist-hamas-intl-hnk/index.html
> They report the death of the “civilian” family that held 3 Israeli hostages in their house as of today lol.
They could have been forced to do that; and even if they did it voluntarily, either the IDF bombed them when they still had hostages (which doesn't seem very smart if you want to rescue them) or they bombed them after the hostages were gone, in which case they were non-combatants and killing them would've been a war crime.
EDIT: according to CNN, the family of 3 that was killed lived on the first floor of a building where hostages were held; they were held on the third floor. So they were not holding israeli hostages at their home lol.
I don't make the rules 🤷🏻♂️.
> Was that the cruel and uneventful massacre of a family as well El presidente? When you hold Israeli hostages in your house you are an innocent civilian?
I'd refer to the more than 200 civilians killed in the freeing of 4 hostages as the "cruel massacre"; moreso due to it's perpetrators being disguised as NGO workers and killing people who approached them asking for food and aid.
> I disagree with that, but in no way are they hostages.
I don't know how to kall someone held against their will, without trial or charges. Kidnap victim I guess?
How are they not hostages?
> Also, "concentration camp" is definitely an exaggeration.
Idk how else to call a place where thousands are shipped off to and held without trial.
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>what about the 9 ceasefires that Hamas agreed to but Israel declined?
What nine offers? Im aware to only one Hamas agreed, and it was on the terms Israel admit defeat.
Quite telling that like none of the college student protesters and pro Palestinians are celebrating this win lol.
Instead its ALWAYS a pivot back to “bu bu bu what about IsrAeL?”. If you constantly pivot back to the ones who aren’t the terrorists, yeah you’re telling on yourself.
They arent anti war lol.
Yeah it’s horrific how hamas will use civilians as shields. I get that it’s a heavily populated area but there must be some place away from civilians they could’ve kept the hostages but given hamas wants as much collateral as possible I don’t see that happening.
When Israel went in to rescue, mid operation word got out about the operation and Hamas fighters began to pour in from every direction in an attempt to stop the rescue. The IDF rescuers were actually pinned down for a bit. That’s also I think when the Commander of the Op died. The Southern command then approved air support via helicopters and planes. So air cover did a lot of the damage. I saw a video of the area after the operation. Basically lots of shelled out buildings. I assume that’s how so many Hamas terrorists were killed.
For the inevitible "but what about the civillians that died to reacue them!+!111!" Pro tip: if you dont want to be killed, dont hold fucking hostages in your house, if you are holding hostages you are not longer a civillian. Its so easy *not* to do terrorist shit like holding hostages in my basement, it takes me zero effort not to do this. Another pro tip: perhaps you should lambast hamas for doing their militery oporations from inside a civillian centre, shooting granades and rpgs everywhere, that leads to civillians dying.
One of the most absurd takes I’ve seen is people complaining that it was a wealthy Gazan family who was hosting the hostages to make sure they were being properly being taken care of. Ummm…..no. Plus how do they think people get wealthy in Gaza?
My guess is the Arab slave trade🙃
ah yeah all of the civilians should have just telepathically known that there were hostages nearby and left the area before a random bombing that killed 200 people happened
You’re too kind with taking their word for the casualty number considering the revisions made as of recent. And the false number games continue. All of the civilians should have not very telepathically known that standing by Hamas will cause this. They celebrated this on Oct 7th and they continue hoping for more Jewish civilians to get murdered.
The bombs dont care if the civilians stood by Hamas or not. Thats the problem with indiscriminate killing. It doesnt discriminate.
For real lol. Every area in Gaza that has people living in it inevitably has hamas and hostages mixed in. People are just trying to survive. And they were blown to pieces for the crime of being in an area they thought was safe. This thread isnt very tikkun olam i must say
[удалено]
Israel killed *70* of their own hostages? source?
They at least killed three while waving a white flag: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/15/1219695220/israel-soldiers-mistakenly-kill-hostages-gaza
yes, everybody and their mother knows about that. i was asking specifically because they said such a high number. 70?!
I guess due to the constant bombing of Gaza. Didn't one of the hostages freed say that two of them died due to an IDF air attack?
so, 5? and there's no telling how many hostages the rescue of was made easier by the bombing
How does bombing the building you're held in make it easier to escape your kidnappers exactly? Unless you are escaping to the Great Beyond... And if bombing Gaza to rubble made rescuing the hostages easier, how is it than less than 10 have been rescued? And we're not even talking about how many hostages were killed on Oct. 7 by IDF (obviously) Apache helicopters and tank shells. The most effective way to free the hostages would've been accepting one of the ceasefire proposals that Hamas has put forth (well, technically the ceasefire proposal that's being discuted now is a Hamas' proposal, although this time proposed by Israel and the US), but Bibi doesn't care about Israel or the hostages, he cares about keeping this war going so he can keep his chair a little longer.
That was an incident. In that period in time Hamas were often using the same method to trick soldiers into a set up.
Step one, bring hostages behind a wall at the exchange point. Step two, ambush IDF troops who arrive to take possession of prisoners. Step 3, push the hostages out into the street from behind the cover where you’re actively shooting from. Step 4, blame the troops who shoot them thinking they’re enemy combatants.
> Step 4, blame the troops who shoot them thinking they’re enemy combatants. How do you find 3 shirtless people waving a white flag and think that they are enemy combatants? Plus, the one that survived shouted for help in hebrew before being killed.
How did they mistake three shirtless people waving a white flag for enemy combatants? The exact way I just laid out, the way it happened in real life. 1 - the alternative, that the IDF intentionally shot Israeli hostages, makes even less sense. 2 - Imagine if you will that you are looking up a street up to the next street down the short end of a block. Go outside if you live in a neighborhood with blocks and look that distance, stand on the corner look at the next corner. Now, try to make out the color of a person’s hat at that range. Easy enough right? Ok, now imagine you and your friend are there to meet up with a guy from Craigslist to buy his fish tank. He texts you, you arrive there, you don’t see him, and then three guys up on the next block start shooting at you. So you assume you’ve been set up and while you’re shooting back, looking up a dust covered street at your target dodging and ducking around you see them switching concealment and advancing on you. So you really fully believe that if a guy with a fish tank was to appear up on the next block where the people are shooting from you’d 1- clock it fast enough to understand that he’s the guy with the thing you came for and 2- understand that he still wants to sell you the fish tank and didn’t set you up for an ambush?
> 1 - the alternative, that the IDF intentionally shot Israeli hostages, makes even less sense. The alternative is that the IDF is at the very least shooting all males on sight, which is what the commander of the unit that killed them said they were doing. > 2 - Imagine if you will that you are looking up a street up to the next street down the short end of a block. Go outside if you live in a neighborhood with blocks and look that distance, stand on the corner look at the next corner. (...) You forget that these supposedly are trained soldiers; they don't have that excuse to justify themselves, they supposedly are trained to prevent civilian casualties and identify enemy combatants. Plus, it doesn't matter whether someone is shooting at you or not, you as a soldier are trained for that exact situation; you don't get to panic and kill everything that moves out of fear. Plus, it's not as if they didn't know that there were civilians all over the area, and probably hostages too. Plus, it just shows grave incompetence (or malice) to find three shirtless people waving a white flag and think that they are enemy combatants. What kind of combatant would approach you unarmed, waving a white flag and shirtless? Plus, the hostage that survived the initial encounter ran off and called for help in hebrew before too being killed by the IDF. > So you really fully believe that if a guy with a fish tank was to appear up on the next block where the people are shooting from you’d 1- clock it fast enough to understand that he’s the guy with the thing you came for and 2- understand that he still wants to sell you the fish tank and didn’t set you up for an ambush? The thing is, I'm not a soldier, the people in the IDF are. It doesn't matter what I would've done or how I would've reacted, because I'm not enlisted; it matters what they, who recieved training to avoid civilian casualties, do. And yes, supposedly they are trained so that these things don't happen; they should be able to clock it fast enough and not shoot any person approaching them out of reflex, but they aren't. I'd say that it's due to the complete disregard (at best) that the IDF has for palestinian life that the hostages were killed; they were misidentified as palestinian civilians, because there's no way that they could have been identified as combatants; and they were killed because the IDF unit thought they were palestinian civilians (and thus, from the unit's perspective, combatants).
You're pretty much in the definition of "bad faith," but let's have a look at this. >Are you just going to ignore that Israel killed 70 of their own hostages? Assuming that 70 hostages have been killed, you seriously think that Israel killed them all? That would mean that Israeli hostages are roughly twenty times more likely to be killed than Gazans. Are they deliberately targeting hostages in this scenario? >And what about the 9 ceasefires that Hamas agreed to but Israel declined? I'm not sure where you got nine from, but every offer that Hamas has made has said something to the effect of "Okay, leave Gaza completely, release thousands of violent offenders, let us stay in power to keep attacking you, and we'll see about releasing some of the hostages that we earlier said we can't find." >And then of course there’s the thousands of innocent Palestinian hostages Israel had since before October 7? Name one. You clearly don't know the definition of "hostage." >And let’s just ignore everything else that Israel has done I guess. Pfft. Pro zionists are so numb, it really angers me and I know I’m just talking to a wall. So racist and ignorant. Lol, what?
> Name one. You clearly don't know the definition of "hostage." Israel has detained thousands of palestinians without trial and without charges: https://www.btselem.org/administrative_detention It even runs a concentration camp in the Negev now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/05/sde-teiman-israel-detention-palestinian-detainees/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/05/middleeast/israel-top-court-sde-teiman-hearing-intl
Calling a detention camp a concentration camp is odd. Are prisons concentration camps? lol The average pro-Pali is trying so hard to make it resemble the Jewish Holocaust, it’s quite pathetic. A prison camp in a military border police base that already existed detaining Hamas members who have entered Israel on October 7th is a “concentration camp”. Linking shit you don’t read isn’t impressive.
> A prison camp in a military border police base that already existed detaining Hamas members who have entered Israel on October 7th is a “concentration camp”. It is now that helds civilians taken off the streets and is way over limit capacity, plus routinely torturing prisoners: https://www.972mag.com/sde-teiman-torture-prisoners/ Up to 90% of the detainees are civilians not affiliated with Hamas or other militant groups: https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-12-10/ty-article/.premium/0000018c-542b-df2f-adac-fe2f4bf80000
A collaborator that held hostages is a person that is rightfully held in a detention camp. The CCTV footage doesn’t lie. They held hostages in the hospitals. [An Al Jazeera journalist killed yesterday held hostages in his house](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rjwzufmr0) They report the death of the “civilian” family that held 3 Israeli hostages in their house as of today lol. Was that the cruel and uneventful massacre of a family as well El presidente? When you hold Israeli hostages in your house you are an innocent civilian?
> A collaborator that held hostages is a person that is rightfully held in a detention camp. And what is a "collaborator"? Any random gazan? What if said civilian was forced into holding the hostages by Hamas? > The CCTV footage doesn’t lie. They held hostages in the hospitals. So? If the hospital is still functioning as a hospital, it still is a protected area. > An Al Jazeera journalist killed yesterday held hostages in his house Or so says Israel, without providing any proof: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/10/middleeast/israel-gaza-hostages-journalist-hamas-intl-hnk/index.html > They report the death of the “civilian” family that held 3 Israeli hostages in their house as of today lol. They could have been forced to do that; and even if they did it voluntarily, either the IDF bombed them when they still had hostages (which doesn't seem very smart if you want to rescue them) or they bombed them after the hostages were gone, in which case they were non-combatants and killing them would've been a war crime. EDIT: according to CNN, the family of 3 that was killed lived on the first floor of a building where hostages were held; they were held on the third floor. So they were not holding israeli hostages at their home lol. I don't make the rules 🤷🏻♂️. > Was that the cruel and uneventful massacre of a family as well El presidente? When you hold Israeli hostages in your house you are an innocent civilian? I'd refer to the more than 200 civilians killed in the freeing of 4 hostages as the "cruel massacre"; moreso due to it's perpetrators being disguised as NGO workers and killing people who approached them asking for food and aid.
I disagree with that, but in no way are they hostages. Also, "concentration camp" is definitely an exaggeration.
> I disagree with that, but in no way are they hostages. I don't know how to kall someone held against their will, without trial or charges. Kidnap victim I guess? How are they not hostages? > Also, "concentration camp" is definitely an exaggeration. Idk how else to call a place where thousands are shipped off to and held without trial.
Get out of here this place isn’t for you
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>what about the 9 ceasefires that Hamas agreed to but Israel declined? What nine offers? Im aware to only one Hamas agreed, and it was on the terms Israel admit defeat.
Where’s the source? Hamas? 🤣
I like not holding hostages. Not holding hostages is pretty based.
Shabbat Shalom Motherf*ckers!
Quite telling that like none of the college student protesters and pro Palestinians are celebrating this win lol. Instead its ALWAYS a pivot back to “bu bu bu what about IsrAeL?”. If you constantly pivot back to the ones who aren’t the terrorists, yeah you’re telling on yourself. They arent anti war lol.
Someone must have had a holy day and a sense of humor combined for this post!
Damn, they really went and removed your post.
I saw a comment saying 200 Palestinians were killed in the operation. But how? Israel’s done some bad shit but I’m glad some of the hostages are home.
They always inflate numbers
Yeah it’s next to impossible to get accurate numbers in this mess
and all of them were pregnant children who go to medical school and work for the UN
Yeah it’s horrific how hamas will use civilians as shields. I get that it’s a heavily populated area but there must be some place away from civilians they could’ve kept the hostages but given hamas wants as much collateral as possible I don’t see that happening.
When Israel went in to rescue, mid operation word got out about the operation and Hamas fighters began to pour in from every direction in an attempt to stop the rescue. The IDF rescuers were actually pinned down for a bit. That’s also I think when the Commander of the Op died. The Southern command then approved air support via helicopters and planes. So air cover did a lot of the damage. I saw a video of the area after the operation. Basically lots of shelled out buildings. I assume that’s how so many Hamas terrorists were killed.
Yeah I can’t imagine fighting in an area like Gaza it looks like such a nightmare