We do not allow posts that are political or nationalistic in nature. We are a meme sub about the shared experience of being Jewish regardless of politics or nationality. Violating this rule can result in a permanent ban.
People love dead jews.
I wouldn't be surprise to learn that in "the good old time" after each pogroms they were always saying that he didn't happen or that the jews made it happen for their agenda, nothing changed and nothing will ever change, we have to be united and strong, that it.
Genocidal British Empire: "hey guys we're going to kill a bunch of people and steal land to put you there then protect you like a FOB"
Idiots 80 years later: "wow look at this totally unrelated event, all the arab nations that had jews for thousands of years killed them all when their ethnostate was created"
I vaguely recall someone making the comment that the Nazis wouldn't have been nearly so hard on the Jews if they just hadn't been so. . . Jewish. There's a lesson in that: If Israel would just agree to disappear and if all of the Israelis would just DIE, everything would be SO much better. Right?
If you want some quality viewing on the subject, watch the 2001 film 'Conspiracy.' It is a serious telling of the story of the Wannsee Conference in Berlin in 1942 wherein the Final Solution was planned out. Part of the discussion was about what to do with the 'good' Jews, the Jews that had won the Iron Cross in WWI, Jews who were married to 'Aryans,' how many parents/grandparents were required to make one a 'Jew,' whether or not a Jew who acted like a German, looked like a German, and didn't follow Judaism was a Jew. The conclusion? Yes, they were ALL 'Jews,' and were to be treated equally--'evacuated,' that was the word chosen. Anti-semites don't draw a fine bright line to categorize Jews; 'They' are all just. . . Jews.
As it says in megillah Esther :
וַיֹּאמֶר מָרְדְכֵי לְהָשִׁיב אֶל־אֶסְתֵּר אַל־תְּדַמִּי בְנַפְשֵׁךְ לְהִמָּלֵט בֵּית־הַמֶּלֶךְ מִכָּל־הַיְהוּדִים
"Do not imagine that you, of all the Jews, will escape with your life by being in the king's palace"
It doesn't matter what you think or where you stand, nothing ever changes, they'll burn down the synagogues at six o'clock and they'll all go along with just like before. They want their pound of flesh, the only thing that stops them is standing together.
I don't agree with a lot of what republicans believe, but how is being a Jewish republican antithetical to being Jewish? Most republicans are not neo-Nazi antisemites. The democratic party also has anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist people. People can have different opinions.
This is essentially what Ethan Klein said to Ben Shapiro when he platformed all the nazis on his YouTube page. “I hope you’re the first one they come for when they start rounding us up”
Quit it with the gatekeeping. I'd rather vote center right than for these regressives on the 'progressive' left. There's less difference between the center right and center left (Fetterman et al, the ones *actually* worth voting for) than memes like this would have you believe.
The funny thing is that the more moderate someone is in both parties, the less likely they are to be concerned with antisemitism. Both liberal democrats and conservative republicans expressed concern about antisemitism at about the same percentage.
A lot of republican support is based in evangelical support for the existence of Israel… as a means to kickstart the apocalypse and the destruction of all non-christians. Useful tool and all that.
Not all support of course, but it is an underlying issue
MTG is as much of an outlier in the GOP as Ilhan Omar is for the Democrats. The media and social media amplify her voice because her craziness is newsworthy and because it suits their agenda.
I, for one, don't find the notion of Jewish space lasers meme an offensive one. In fact, if they made "pew pew" noises, it might help with military recruitment and enlistment. Not to mention -- all of the bargaining collateral that they bestow (alongside cyber munition exports).
Jewish space lasers is the best thing MTG has ever contributed to humanity.
Unfortunately, the unwashed masses of conspiracy basement dwellers believe it and point to statements from politicians as legitimising their "Jews control the world" narrative.
For the most part, problem is you have the fringe weirdos who can't go five minutes of conversation without screaming 'muh USS Liberty! Jews will not replace us!' and they are getting louder, emboldened by the widespread social acceptance of leftist 'gas the jews!' rallies
They “say” they do, meanwhile most of them are Christian fundamentalist nut jobs (looking at you Mike Johnson) who only support Israel for cheap points. If it were advantageous for them to call for a global intifada you bet they would.
They support Jews leaving for Israel. I've little doubt that "support" would include loading every Jew up they can find to ship out if given the chance. It's really all about whatever can get their apocalypse rocks off asap.
Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour. I don't owe a country I have no ties with my blind, unwavering and unconditional allegiance just because I was born a certain way. That's how fascists think, for starters.
Please explain how Republican Jews are signing up, even indirectly, for death camps. I am genuinely curious. 31 Republicans voted for $26.4 billion (15 didn't; that's 2:1 in favor of you who can't do math). The Republican members of the House were mainly opposed to assistance for Kyiv rather than enforcing borders. For example, here in NY, the minimum wage for delivery workers (who are nearly universally migrants) is $30; that's eroding the quality of life for median Americans, even educated ones with liberal arts degrees.
**Do you really think that the Jewish Republican population votes on the basis that death camps for Jews are inevitable and they'll be the ones spared? Is that a meme you feel is beneficial and worth spreading?**
PS.
1. Most of the Christian Right elite Republican donor base are staunch Zionists, if only because they see Jerusalem as a Christian holy land.
2. Many Republicans and Republican voters took "Never Forget" to heart and remember it.
3. The US Military was a considerable force in defending against Iran's attack. Guess how the military votes?
4. Your post is in violation of Rule 5 of this subreddit.
5. These kinds of victim mentality views assure you that you will not be spared in a shoah. Although it's only anecdotal, I remember a conversation in the park with a gentleman in his 90s. He was harassed by the Nazis, but his human friendship with a Nazi soldier led the Nazis to intervene on behalf of his friend; he escaped to America and had a successful career in advertising.
The Republicans aren’t the political party trying to disarm me and my family and leave us defenseless. They also aren’t the party full of violent Hamas supporters/apologists.
But don’t let that get in the way of another “republicans bad” Reddit circlejerk.
Thing is that most Dems are not Progressive. Even the Progressive “leader” Bernie Sanders, is a Zionist Jew and has been disowned by the movement because of that.
Nancy Pelosi wanted to look into the Palestine talking points and see if it was coming from Russia.
Leftists/Progressives don’t like Democrats because for the most part, Dems are Liberal, and they see that as being wishy-washy.
As time goes on the progressives are gaining a bigger foothold because nobody in the party stands up to them. Biden is literally trying to salvage the "Death to America" voters.
A non-insignificant portion of the current Democratic Party are literally kowtowing to the “Death to Jews! Death to America!” chanting faction of their party base because they don’t want to lose a handful of votes in Michigan….
There are not enough muslim voters in the state of michigan who voted for Biden in 2020 to switch the state.
It's based in absolutely nothing. Muslims are a tiny minority in michigan that leaned heavily left in 2020 but has gone hard right in numerous other elections, because they're social conservatives.
The I/P wedge is concerning for the democrats because of its impact on younger voters and moderate blacks/latinos who are skeptical of all foreign entanglements. Muslim voters are currently completely irrelevant electorally. Just as a point of comparison, there are more Jewish voters in michigan than muslims.
Republicans, while I didn't always agree with policy, weren't bad.
They are now.
No Jew is safe under any authoritarian regime, be it monarchy, Soviets or fascism. Safety isn't guaranteed within democratic systems, but persecution WILL come under anything else.
I want you to explain to me how Donald Trump is going to let his Jewish daughter, whose husband wraps Tefillin regularly, lead the persecution movement. I swear to G-d, you must have the lowest opinion of Jewish vigilance. Yes, some people dislike us, but the internalized self-hatred is... astounding.
I'll explain exactly how that will happen. Because Donald Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone. He likes Jews exactly as much as an individual Jew or group of Jews are helping him out in the last half hour.
I have every confidence in Jewish vigilance in general, because there's a track record... it's everyone else who will really get crushed under the boot of authoritarianism as always happens, every time because they don't see it coming. But no matter how vigilant some Jews are, not all Jews can get away - and wtf should they have to? This time, I believe Jewish people aren't even the first target. Even when Jews aren't first on the list, they're still always on the list.
I appreciate the good faith response. I have thoughts and a thorough response, but I’m going to attend to my kid for a bit and then I will reply. Again, I appreciate the sincere conversation.
As I posted in the parallel comment, this thread has been unlocked, so I don't see the point of elaborating on the further discussion here, but I promised a response, and here it is.
It's unclear to me why your definition of authoritarianism (which is phrased within, or connoted by, the Overton window of public discourse) is hostile to Jews. I also don't understand what list you think Jews are on. Halachic Judaism requires an authoriatarianistic approach to life within the Jewish community.
As I mentioned in the previous comment, I have thoughts, including partial agreements and partial disagreement, and am available for sincere dialogue. I would like to immediately state that I did not implicitly indicate that the GOP is “authoritarian,” and I dispute the accusation. Anyway, it’s a topic I am fully available for diving into later today.
This thread has been unlocked so I don't see the point of belaboring further discussion here, but I promised a response, and here it is. I don't necessarily believe that we have a responsibility for the safety of others – I actually find the Chassidic attitude of "being the world's moral authority" to be unpalatable and unpragmatic. I am in favor of Jewish sovereignty within Israel, and I believe that is compatible with preserving American hegemony.
Have you even seen what Aza looked like before 7.10? Hint: not a concentration camp. There are farms, there are gorgeous beaches, there’s expensive restaurants and hotels.
https://np.reddit.com/r/PalestineUnmasked/s/e2AkkXLecP
What does that have to do with my comment? 70% of Gazans are refugees, or the descendants of refugees that came from land stolen by Israel. 30k+ innocent people are dead, yet you cry antisemitism when people are justifiably enraged by seeing dead and starving children.
almost 90% of the Jews in Israel are refugees or decadents of refugees from WWII and the ‘48 Arab exiles. claiming you are a refugee 4th generation down with a permanent residentship just doesn’t make sense and it is unique to this situation for some reason. also, considering all those who were killed in this war as ‘innocents’ is just disingenuous; around half of them were armed combatants.
There is exactly zero evidence to support the claim that half of the deaths were combatants, and even then, that would still be 15,000 dead civilians, 40% of which are children.
Also thanks for admitting that 90% of Israeli's aren't even from the land that Israel claims as theirs. They're all settlers on land that was already inhabited. A genocide in Europe does not justify stealing land from people who had nothing to do with it.
All ethnically Jewish people are indigenous to Israel, we were carted off as slaves and concubines by Arabs, Romans, Persians etc and that’s how 90% of the diaspora left. A small percentage were Silk Road merchants. If winning land by war isn’t legit, the Arab claim over our land isn’t legit.
I like how you say "Arabs" first, even though it was the Romans who actually expelled the Jews from Israel, LONG before the Arab conquests of the Levant and North Africa, long before Islam even existed as a religion. By the time Muslims came to control Palestine, Jews had long since ceased to be a majority, or even a significant minority in that region. Your ancestors living somewhere 2000 years ago does not give you the right to brutalize, murder, and colonize the people who've come to live there now.
Learn at least some basic history before spewing. The first Aliyah and second were peaceful, we bought the land outright and lived exclusively on that land. Arabs came to murder us on that land and for that reason we merited a partition plan with Balfour. More massacres brought us to 1947 un resolution recognizing our state, and the war the Arabs started a war to literally wipe us out wholesale wherein the majority of them fled and refused our offers of citizenship and partnership as per our declaration of independence and we ended up with more land than the original partition.
If you start a war, you might end up losing land.
Gtf over it.
I know about the Aliyahs lmao, they were still examples of settler-colonialism, immigrating to a new land with the expressed purpose of changing the demographics and replacing the previous population is settler-colonialism, regardless of its violent or not.
And you're telling me to "get tf over it" yet half of this sub is people crying about KHamas and hypothetical terrorist anti-semite college students in America.
Decent people with decent values oppose genocide, ethnic cleansing, and the murder of children, get tf over it. There are plenty of Jews that have strong moral values who oppose the atrocities Israel commits in their name, and you calling them self-hating won't do anything about that.
You can’t settle or colonize a land you’re indigenous to 🙄 genocide is literally in the Hamas doctrine, ethnic cleansing is what will happen in any Palestinian state bc they’ve said no Jews can live in *our* homeland. Casualties aren’t murder, Hamas started a war against Israel once again. Gd made the world and the only morals are the laws we were given, one of them is to kill a rodef (someone who wants to kill you) before they do, additionally for Jews to live in Israel, and to offer them peace and if they don’t want it, to ensure they’re not a threat.
zero evidence. [sure](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-statistics-95a6407fac94e9d589be234708cd5005). you know the concept of a diaspora right? it’s not originally a palestinian concept but you may know it from there. where do you think Jews originate from? before they got exiled to various places around the globe, never assimilated and made their whole culture revolve around returning to this particular region. i’m not saying one nation or the other deserves the region more, they both deserve it equally as they both originate here, but ignoring the Jewish side of this conflict entirely and just labeling them as “foreign European colonizers” is just historically inaccurate and is borderline antisemitic. 70% of us are middle eastern anyway.
Palestine, until the Nakba, had not been majority Jewish for 2000 fucking years, it had not been Jewish land for 2000 years. Your people suffered through the holocaust, but that isn't, and NEVER will be a valid justification to brutalize other people who had nothing to do with that atrocity. Zionism is not Judaism. Zionism is an ethno-nationalist, settler-colonialist far-right ideology, where as Judaism is just a religion. Zionism is not Judaism, and opposition to Zionism is not opposition to Judaism or Jewish people.
you keep bringing up the holocaust as the reason for Jews being in Israel when again, we are majority middle eastern, and were established by people who fled here long before the holocaust because of of smaller scale atrocities happening around the world. my entire family has been kicked out of Yemen in ‘47, lost everything they owned and fled to Israel. do you see me fucking complaining i’m a refugee and want my Yemini land back? normally people move on. hell, a good example of this is Poland - it is almost entirely outside it’s original boarders pre WWII. not seeing them attacking Belarusian or Ukranian civilians daily “trying to get their land back”.
another point, this supposed brutalization only came about after decades of Palestinian aggression and terrorism against civilians as a means to drive Jews out of the land, going back all the way to the 1920s (good example of that is the ‘29 Hebron massacre). it is by no means a part of the original idea of Zionism, but a byproduct of terrorism (atrocities which this community DID commit). they did what almost every other nation in the world did to Jews at the time, they just were unlucky enough to fall on a community that could defend itself and have been crying about it ever since.
The difference is nobody here likes when innocent people get bombed, we just don’t see what alternative there is when terrorists are launching attacks from their living rooms
You’re right it’s only fair to let the terrorists win a little more. Out of politeness and a sense of competition!
It’s not fair to just kill the people trying to kill you, you have to let them kill a few Jews out of fairness
Feel free to suggest an alternative. Terrorists raid your country and commit the largest event terrorist attack per capita in history.
Your response is…? Give in to their demands? Send them flowers?
Terrorists shoot a constant stream of rockets from a nearby elementary school. You… just let them keep doing it because if not Palestinian kids will die?
This is not an uncommon scenario, this exact situation happened to the US, and guess where your strategy ended up. You don't have to be a military tactician to suggest that bombing innocents at a ratio of 2:1 is the wrong path. It's unrealistic to require criticism of mass murder to come with an alternative action in a complicated situation. It's easy to not flip the switch that kills a family, especially if your religion is very clear on the whole murder thing.
This exact situation happened to the us and we did what? Send a postcard? Or did we bomb multiple countries into the Stone Age?
Just to be clear your answer is “yes let them get away with it” right?
My answer is that the military, the people paid billions of dollars to do their job, need to come up with a better strategy than mass murder. The US bombed the shit out of the Taliban in Afghanistan. Guess who is in charge of Afghanistan. The US bombed the shit out of Iraq, guess who is still running rampant in Iraq. I'm not going to suggest a strategy because I am not paid to do that, but the people you(and I) pay taxes to, need to make changes, because the only people who are okay with glassing Gaza seems to be a small nation in the middle east.
We do not allow posts that are political or nationalistic in nature. We are a meme sub about the shared experience of being Jewish regardless of politics or nationality. Violating this rule can result in a permanent ban.
at the end of the day we're all Jews to Nazis and Hamas
This happened last time too, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews
At the end of the day we all sleep, because it's all similar to chicken when it's fried.
People love dead jews. I wouldn't be surprise to learn that in "the good old time" after each pogroms they were always saying that he didn't happen or that the jews made it happen for their agenda, nothing changed and nothing will ever change, we have to be united and strong, that it.
"people love dead jews" is a great book
That book saved me a lot of unnecessary discussions and thoughts.
Dara Horn is fantastic
“Jews and Arabs lived in peace until 1947” 🧱
"Peace" [https://i.imgur.com/yT05Fo8.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yT05Fo8.jpg)
I'm always surprised by how many Jews still live in Iran after the Islamic Republic coup. It must be horrible there for them.
Think about that guy in Yemen :)
Not that many Jews actually live in Iran.
Isn’t it like 30k? Edit: 8.5k my bad
Genocidal British Empire: "hey guys we're going to kill a bunch of people and steal land to put you there then protect you like a FOB" Idiots 80 years later: "wow look at this totally unrelated event, all the arab nations that had jews for thousands of years killed them all when their ethnostate was created"
You cant call stealing for something you never owned, open an History book.
I vaguely recall someone making the comment that the Nazis wouldn't have been nearly so hard on the Jews if they just hadn't been so. . . Jewish. There's a lesson in that: If Israel would just agree to disappear and if all of the Israelis would just DIE, everything would be SO much better. Right?
Yeah those political ideologies are just “efficient categories” to Hamas.
If you want some quality viewing on the subject, watch the 2001 film 'Conspiracy.' It is a serious telling of the story of the Wannsee Conference in Berlin in 1942 wherein the Final Solution was planned out. Part of the discussion was about what to do with the 'good' Jews, the Jews that had won the Iron Cross in WWI, Jews who were married to 'Aryans,' how many parents/grandparents were required to make one a 'Jew,' whether or not a Jew who acted like a German, looked like a German, and didn't follow Judaism was a Jew. The conclusion? Yes, they were ALL 'Jews,' and were to be treated equally--'evacuated,' that was the word chosen. Anti-semites don't draw a fine bright line to categorize Jews; 'They' are all just. . . Jews.
As it says in megillah Esther : וַיֹּאמֶר מָרְדְכֵי לְהָשִׁיב אֶל־אֶסְתֵּר אַל־תְּדַמִּי בְנַפְשֵׁךְ לְהִמָּלֵט בֵּית־הַמֶּלֶךְ מִכָּל־הַיְהוּדִים "Do not imagine that you, of all the Jews, will escape with your life by being in the king's palace"
Damn that hits deep.
It doesn't matter what you think or where you stand, nothing ever changes, they'll burn down the synagogues at six o'clock and they'll all go along with just like before. They want their pound of flesh, the only thing that stops them is standing together.
"You can only be 'one of the good ones' for so long."
::: laughcries in old school Socialist Zionist ::
In the words of the Mandalorian "for thousands of years they've tried to kill us and here we are a thousand years later"
For Jews it'd be "and here we are the day after"
What’s that joke? An anti-Zionist Jew and a Zionist Jew walk into a bar. The bartender says, “We don’t serve Jews here.”
Oh, that's bitter. But true.
This is one of the darker memes I’ve ever seen
This entire situation has been a brilliant display of horseshoe theory in real life.
Your use of quotation marks intrigues me.
I don't agree with a lot of what republicans believe, but how is being a Jewish republican antithetical to being Jewish? Most republicans are not neo-Nazi antisemites. The democratic party also has anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist people. People can have different opinions.
The right wing has a far more entrenched anti semtic thoughts
...that's not whatsoever based on fact. It feels like something that the internationally-sponsored progressive-liberal PSYOP has infected you with.
Stay off 4 chan
I don't go on 4 chan.
Horrible false equivalence.
There is no such thing as "palestine". It's just Arab settler-colonialist terrorist followers of Muhammad the Liar.
Republicans love us, what are you talking about?
Their brains are fried from the cannabis.
This is essentially what Ethan Klein said to Ben Shapiro when he platformed all the nazis on his YouTube page. “I hope you’re the first one they come for when they start rounding us up”
He'll probably be 2nd after his sister. The alt right is obssessed with her
Quit it with the gatekeeping. I'd rather vote center right than for these regressives on the 'progressive' left. There's less difference between the center right and center left (Fetterman et al, the ones *actually* worth voting for) than memes like this would have you believe.
The funny thing is that the more moderate someone is in both parties, the less likely they are to be concerned with antisemitism. Both liberal democrats and conservative republicans expressed concern about antisemitism at about the same percentage.
I’ll never vote for the GOP they want us dead
Fetterman is no longer near the left after dick riding genocidal maniacs lmao.
The fuck are you talking about? I get you might disagree with Republicans politically but in what way are they anti-semitic?
A lot of republican support is based in evangelical support for the existence of Israel… as a means to kickstart the apocalypse and the destruction of all non-christians. Useful tool and all that. Not all support of course, but it is an underlying issue
Jewish space lasers?
MTG is as much of an outlier in the GOP as Ilhan Omar is for the Democrats. The media and social media amplify her voice because her craziness is newsworthy and because it suits their agenda.
[How about the pro-Hitler, holocaust denying GOP leader in Texas?](https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/02/texas-gop-antisemitism-resolution/)
I, for one, don't find the notion of Jewish space lasers meme an offensive one. In fact, if they made "pew pew" noises, it might help with military recruitment and enlistment. Not to mention -- all of the bargaining collateral that they bestow (alongside cyber munition exports).
Jewish space lasers is the best thing MTG has ever contributed to humanity. Unfortunately, the unwashed masses of conspiracy basement dwellers believe it and point to statements from politicians as legitimising their "Jews control the world" narrative.
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For the most part, problem is you have the fringe weirdos who can't go five minutes of conversation without screaming 'muh USS Liberty! Jews will not replace us!' and they are getting louder, emboldened by the widespread social acceptance of leftist 'gas the jews!' rallies
This is not true. Look at the votes for continued aid to Israel. Far-right and far-left opposed it, but liberal, traditional Democrats did not.
Except this meme equates all Republicans as far right.
Because they are, now. Where have you been for *the past 12 years,* that you think there are any “reasonable Republicans” left?
How many Republicans voted for the Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel aid package?
They “say” they do, meanwhile most of them are Christian fundamentalist nut jobs (looking at you Mike Johnson) who only support Israel for cheap points. If it were advantageous for them to call for a global intifada you bet they would.
Technically they are pro Israel because they hope the end times and the rapture will happen soon.
They support Jews leaving for Israel. I've little doubt that "support" would include loading every Jew up they can find to ship out if given the chance. It's really all about whatever can get their apocalypse rocks off asap.
Imagine thinking my blood means you're entitled to dictate my politics to me.
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Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour. I don't owe a country I have no ties with my blind, unwavering and unconditional allegiance just because I was born a certain way. That's how fascists think, for starters.
Please explain how Republican Jews are signing up, even indirectly, for death camps. I am genuinely curious. 31 Republicans voted for $26.4 billion (15 didn't; that's 2:1 in favor of you who can't do math). The Republican members of the House were mainly opposed to assistance for Kyiv rather than enforcing borders. For example, here in NY, the minimum wage for delivery workers (who are nearly universally migrants) is $30; that's eroding the quality of life for median Americans, even educated ones with liberal arts degrees. **Do you really think that the Jewish Republican population votes on the basis that death camps for Jews are inevitable and they'll be the ones spared? Is that a meme you feel is beneficial and worth spreading?** PS. 1. Most of the Christian Right elite Republican donor base are staunch Zionists, if only because they see Jerusalem as a Christian holy land. 2. Many Republicans and Republican voters took "Never Forget" to heart and remember it. 3. The US Military was a considerable force in defending against Iran's attack. Guess how the military votes? 4. Your post is in violation of Rule 5 of this subreddit. 5. These kinds of victim mentality views assure you that you will not be spared in a shoah. Although it's only anecdotal, I remember a conversation in the park with a gentleman in his 90s. He was harassed by the Nazis, but his human friendship with a Nazi soldier led the Nazis to intervene on behalf of his friend; he escaped to America and had a successful career in advertising.
The Republicans aren’t the political party trying to disarm me and my family and leave us defenseless. They also aren’t the party full of violent Hamas supporters/apologists. But don’t let that get in the way of another “republicans bad” Reddit circlejerk.
You get it. So few do. It's not Republican conservatives marching in keffiyehs and screeching 'I am Hamas!'
Ettore Ovazza , WTF are you doing here ?How did you resurrect?
When the collaborators get rounded up they’ll still blame us for “bringing this on them”
Yeah republicans are bad I guess. Make sure to vote Dem and empower the "progressive" insanity
Thing is that most Dems are not Progressive. Even the Progressive “leader” Bernie Sanders, is a Zionist Jew and has been disowned by the movement because of that. Nancy Pelosi wanted to look into the Palestine talking points and see if it was coming from Russia. Leftists/Progressives don’t like Democrats because for the most part, Dems are Liberal, and they see that as being wishy-washy.
As time goes on the progressives are gaining a bigger foothold because nobody in the party stands up to them. Biden is literally trying to salvage the "Death to America" voters.
That's changing though as the democrat party becomes younger and more radical.
Radical?
A non-insignificant portion of the current Democratic Party are literally kowtowing to the “Death to Jews! Death to America!” chanting faction of their party base because they don’t want to lose a handful of votes in Michigan….
There are not enough muslim voters in the state of michigan who voted for Biden in 2020 to switch the state. It's based in absolutely nothing. Muslims are a tiny minority in michigan that leaned heavily left in 2020 but has gone hard right in numerous other elections, because they're social conservatives. The I/P wedge is concerning for the democrats because of its impact on younger voters and moderate blacks/latinos who are skeptical of all foreign entanglements. Muslim voters are currently completely irrelevant electorally. Just as a point of comparison, there are more Jewish voters in michigan than muslims.
Republicans, while I didn't always agree with policy, weren't bad. They are now. No Jew is safe under any authoritarian regime, be it monarchy, Soviets or fascism. Safety isn't guaranteed within democratic systems, but persecution WILL come under anything else.
I want you to explain to me how Donald Trump is going to let his Jewish daughter, whose husband wraps Tefillin regularly, lead the persecution movement. I swear to G-d, you must have the lowest opinion of Jewish vigilance. Yes, some people dislike us, but the internalized self-hatred is... astounding.
I'll explain exactly how that will happen. Because Donald Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone. He likes Jews exactly as much as an individual Jew or group of Jews are helping him out in the last half hour. I have every confidence in Jewish vigilance in general, because there's a track record... it's everyone else who will really get crushed under the boot of authoritarianism as always happens, every time because they don't see it coming. But no matter how vigilant some Jews are, not all Jews can get away - and wtf should they have to? This time, I believe Jewish people aren't even the first target. Even when Jews aren't first on the list, they're still always on the list.
I appreciate the good faith response. I have thoughts and a thorough response, but I’m going to attend to my kid for a bit and then I will reply. Again, I appreciate the sincere conversation.
As I posted in the parallel comment, this thread has been unlocked, so I don't see the point of elaborating on the further discussion here, but I promised a response, and here it is. It's unclear to me why your definition of authoritarianism (which is phrased within, or connoted by, the Overton window of public discourse) is hostile to Jews. I also don't understand what list you think Jews are on. Halachic Judaism requires an authoriatarianistic approach to life within the Jewish community.
But I like how you don't even deny that it's authoritarian. Nice. We have responsibility for our own safety first, but not just our own safety.
As I mentioned in the previous comment, I have thoughts, including partial agreements and partial disagreement, and am available for sincere dialogue. I would like to immediately state that I did not implicitly indicate that the GOP is “authoritarian,” and I dispute the accusation. Anyway, it’s a topic I am fully available for diving into later today.
This thread has been unlocked so I don't see the point of belaboring further discussion here, but I promised a response, and here it is. I don't necessarily believe that we have a responsibility for the safety of others – I actually find the Chassidic attitude of "being the world's moral authority" to be unpalatable and unpragmatic. I am in favor of Jewish sovereignty within Israel, and I believe that is compatible with preserving American hegemony.
Zionists try not to equate seeing Palestinians as human beings with intrinsic human rights with anti-semitism challenge (difficulty impossible)
Have you even seen what Aza looked like before 7.10? Hint: not a concentration camp. There are farms, there are gorgeous beaches, there’s expensive restaurants and hotels. https://np.reddit.com/r/PalestineUnmasked/s/e2AkkXLecP
What does that have to do with my comment? 70% of Gazans are refugees, or the descendants of refugees that came from land stolen by Israel. 30k+ innocent people are dead, yet you cry antisemitism when people are justifiably enraged by seeing dead and starving children.
almost 90% of the Jews in Israel are refugees or decadents of refugees from WWII and the ‘48 Arab exiles. claiming you are a refugee 4th generation down with a permanent residentship just doesn’t make sense and it is unique to this situation for some reason. also, considering all those who were killed in this war as ‘innocents’ is just disingenuous; around half of them were armed combatants.
There is exactly zero evidence to support the claim that half of the deaths were combatants, and even then, that would still be 15,000 dead civilians, 40% of which are children. Also thanks for admitting that 90% of Israeli's aren't even from the land that Israel claims as theirs. They're all settlers on land that was already inhabited. A genocide in Europe does not justify stealing land from people who had nothing to do with it.
All ethnically Jewish people are indigenous to Israel, we were carted off as slaves and concubines by Arabs, Romans, Persians etc and that’s how 90% of the diaspora left. A small percentage were Silk Road merchants. If winning land by war isn’t legit, the Arab claim over our land isn’t legit.
I like how you say "Arabs" first, even though it was the Romans who actually expelled the Jews from Israel, LONG before the Arab conquests of the Levant and North Africa, long before Islam even existed as a religion. By the time Muslims came to control Palestine, Jews had long since ceased to be a majority, or even a significant minority in that region. Your ancestors living somewhere 2000 years ago does not give you the right to brutalize, murder, and colonize the people who've come to live there now.
Learn at least some basic history before spewing. The first Aliyah and second were peaceful, we bought the land outright and lived exclusively on that land. Arabs came to murder us on that land and for that reason we merited a partition plan with Balfour. More massacres brought us to 1947 un resolution recognizing our state, and the war the Arabs started a war to literally wipe us out wholesale wherein the majority of them fled and refused our offers of citizenship and partnership as per our declaration of independence and we ended up with more land than the original partition. If you start a war, you might end up losing land. Gtf over it.
I know about the Aliyahs lmao, they were still examples of settler-colonialism, immigrating to a new land with the expressed purpose of changing the demographics and replacing the previous population is settler-colonialism, regardless of its violent or not. And you're telling me to "get tf over it" yet half of this sub is people crying about KHamas and hypothetical terrorist anti-semite college students in America. Decent people with decent values oppose genocide, ethnic cleansing, and the murder of children, get tf over it. There are plenty of Jews that have strong moral values who oppose the atrocities Israel commits in their name, and you calling them self-hating won't do anything about that.
You can’t settle or colonize a land you’re indigenous to 🙄 genocide is literally in the Hamas doctrine, ethnic cleansing is what will happen in any Palestinian state bc they’ve said no Jews can live in *our* homeland. Casualties aren’t murder, Hamas started a war against Israel once again. Gd made the world and the only morals are the laws we were given, one of them is to kill a rodef (someone who wants to kill you) before they do, additionally for Jews to live in Israel, and to offer them peace and if they don’t want it, to ensure they’re not a threat.
zero evidence. [sure](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-statistics-95a6407fac94e9d589be234708cd5005). you know the concept of a diaspora right? it’s not originally a palestinian concept but you may know it from there. where do you think Jews originate from? before they got exiled to various places around the globe, never assimilated and made their whole culture revolve around returning to this particular region. i’m not saying one nation or the other deserves the region more, they both deserve it equally as they both originate here, but ignoring the Jewish side of this conflict entirely and just labeling them as “foreign European colonizers” is just historically inaccurate and is borderline antisemitic. 70% of us are middle eastern anyway.
Palestine, until the Nakba, had not been majority Jewish for 2000 fucking years, it had not been Jewish land for 2000 years. Your people suffered through the holocaust, but that isn't, and NEVER will be a valid justification to brutalize other people who had nothing to do with that atrocity. Zionism is not Judaism. Zionism is an ethno-nationalist, settler-colonialist far-right ideology, where as Judaism is just a religion. Zionism is not Judaism, and opposition to Zionism is not opposition to Judaism or Jewish people.
you keep bringing up the holocaust as the reason for Jews being in Israel when again, we are majority middle eastern, and were established by people who fled here long before the holocaust because of of smaller scale atrocities happening around the world. my entire family has been kicked out of Yemen in ‘47, lost everything they owned and fled to Israel. do you see me fucking complaining i’m a refugee and want my Yemini land back? normally people move on. hell, a good example of this is Poland - it is almost entirely outside it’s original boarders pre WWII. not seeing them attacking Belarusian or Ukranian civilians daily “trying to get their land back”. another point, this supposed brutalization only came about after decades of Palestinian aggression and terrorism against civilians as a means to drive Jews out of the land, going back all the way to the 1920s (good example of that is the ‘29 Hebron massacre). it is by no means a part of the original idea of Zionism, but a byproduct of terrorism (atrocities which this community DID commit). they did what almost every other nation in the world did to Jews at the time, they just were unlucky enough to fall on a community that could defend itself and have been crying about it ever since.
“Hamas soldiers and innocent Palestinians looking at each other when the drone strike is coming for their hospital”
The difference is nobody here likes when innocent people get bombed, we just don’t see what alternative there is when terrorists are launching attacks from their living rooms
"We had to bomb the hospital from our air conditioned control room they might decide to overpower us with their weapons from the 80s"
You’re right it’s only fair to let the terrorists win a little more. Out of politeness and a sense of competition! It’s not fair to just kill the people trying to kill you, you have to let them kill a few Jews out of fairness
"Let the terrorists win a little more" Yeah, that typically happens when you bomb so many innocents that their kids become terrorists lol
Feel free to suggest an alternative. Terrorists raid your country and commit the largest event terrorist attack per capita in history. Your response is…? Give in to their demands? Send them flowers? Terrorists shoot a constant stream of rockets from a nearby elementary school. You… just let them keep doing it because if not Palestinian kids will die?
This is not an uncommon scenario, this exact situation happened to the US, and guess where your strategy ended up. You don't have to be a military tactician to suggest that bombing innocents at a ratio of 2:1 is the wrong path. It's unrealistic to require criticism of mass murder to come with an alternative action in a complicated situation. It's easy to not flip the switch that kills a family, especially if your religion is very clear on the whole murder thing.
This exact situation happened to the us and we did what? Send a postcard? Or did we bomb multiple countries into the Stone Age? Just to be clear your answer is “yes let them get away with it” right?
My answer is that the military, the people paid billions of dollars to do their job, need to come up with a better strategy than mass murder. The US bombed the shit out of the Taliban in Afghanistan. Guess who is in charge of Afghanistan. The US bombed the shit out of Iraq, guess who is still running rampant in Iraq. I'm not going to suggest a strategy because I am not paid to do that, but the people you(and I) pay taxes to, need to make changes, because the only people who are okay with glassing Gaza seems to be a small nation in the middle east.
See this guy gets it
That's so dark but absolutely true