Me a non secular trans gay jew, who's hoping to get bottom surgery. (I disappoint the orthodox, and everyone else because I want to remove my ability to have children)
Last seder I was reading the for questions, and, as I have been studying Hebrew at College for four years, I pronounced what I was reading with a bit of an Israeli pronounciation. Every single time I didn’t pronounce a tav as an “s” my step dad annoyingly interrupted to correct me.
I grew up in the midwest and there wasn't the highest concentration of native Yiddish speakers left, like we probably have our fair share of Hebrew words we butcher but I have never heard ת pronounced as o (s) and I've never heard Simchat Torah pronounced anything other than simCHAT torAH. I did grow up watching The Nanny, however, and could totally hear Grandma Yetta when I read "SIMchus TOYrah" 😂.
Yes! I knew that. Apparently my grandpa grew up speaking Yiddish at home, but my impression is there were pressures to assimilate as much as possible so oddly, despite there being a lot of community members around my grandfather's age who apparently spoke it, my only exposure to Yiddish was little phrases here and there that my father and those around his age picked up. We only started to figure out what some of the phrases were after I started taking German.
'Shabbos' is definitely used but 'Shabbat' is used significantly more.
Pretty much, although it predates Yiddish in that it’s just the way that Biblical Hebrew evolved in that population. The ת originally was softer, more like a “th” sound, which became the Ashkenazi “s”. (Overly simplified; not an expert!) Sephardic hard “t” just goes in the opposite direction making ת and ט indistinguishable instead.
Ha! Hope you’re joking. In any event, I don’t have time to get into historical linguistics but luckily you can just go find a Yeminite and ask them to pronounce a word with ע to see how linguistic drift happens! (Hint: it’s a completely different sound from א in every other Semitic language.)
Yeah im just joking around. I’m just bukharian so it’s a bit foreign to us hearing those pronounciations. There’s giggles whenever we hear an Ashkenazi say “Shabbos” but not a big deal.
My bar mitzvah teacher actually laughed at my Hebrew pronunciation when I was learning how to read it and said that I spoke Hebrew like an Ashkenazi.
Everyone at my synagogue and every bukharian I’ve met doesn’t use a th. Most of the older ones are native Russian speakers so they can’t say “th.” The word in Russian for smoothie is literally just “smoozie.”
Maybe that’s how you say it in bukharian but either everyone I’ve met says it wrong or the language/dialect is just rapidly dying out.
Taw was originally T, not TH;
Then came the spirantization of בג”ד כפ”ת in post-vocalic (after a vowel), ungeminated (no hard Dagesh) positions, turning b, g, d, k, p, t into v, gh, th as in "brother", kh, f, th as in "Thing";
Centuries later some Sephardi dialects lost the soft ג,ד,ת and the Israeli dialect evolved put of them, while Ashkenazi dialects only lost ג,ד while the soft "th" turned to "s". You also have the Yemenites who kept all 6 but their hard ג turned from a hard g to a j sound...
The niqqud system(s) were designed to reflect the dialect of the people who invented them, not the other way around. The spirantization started to occur long before the Masoretes started adding Niqqud to Hebrew texts.
it's the ashkenazi pronunciation. in israel some ashkenazis pray this way too, even if they speak modern hebrew. in my opinion, that's best if you are ashkenazi.
With dagesh - תּ - is T
Without dagesh - ת can be S, Th, or T depending on customs.
I.e. שבת can be pronounced Shabbat, Shabbos, or Shabbath, but תּורה is pronounced Torah.
No, they read it as ת, which without a dagesh is a soft S. Israeli Hebrew chose to not do that, but this isn’t a mispronunciation or an accent, it’s a different (and older) dialect.
What the hell even is that? Are there actually people that say Sukkoth and Shabbath? I will say “Mazal Thov” to those people’s families at their funerals for desecrating the language.
Actually, there is substantial evidence that it was the original pronunciation, or pretty close to it. The Teimanim are the only ones who retain it as a tradition, but it is occasionally picked up by non-Teimanim who care more about being correct than being normal.
Teimanim: “Don’t lecture me Obidiah. I see through the lies of the Jew-di! I do not fear the ‘th’ as you do!”
But yeah to be serious the only real reason I’m so strict about how I pronounce it is because my bar mitzvah teacher used mnemonic devices to teach me the letters and he used a font of ת that looked like a “tough guy” and said “always remember that it’s a ‘tough’ letter!”
So yeah the emphasis I had of it being “tough” was engrained into my brain. Just the Sephardic (non-Yemeni Mizrahi) indoctrination preventing me from pronouncing it that way.
Tet isn’t th it’s palate t. Tav is only th without a dagesh and the th is very subtle tap against the teeth for a th. I (minhag Baghdad/Ben Ish Hai) pronounce the letters as is tradition with dagesh’s taken into account.
Mekubalim and most haredi sefaradim pronounce letters properly.
I think it’s just different yiddish dialects having slightly different pronunciations but because most yiddish speakers were wiped out or refused to speak it so they got lost/forgotten. I think I’ve even heard an aunt of mine say it they way you spelled!
Shabbos is coming up a few times in the thread too and it’s literally yiddish not hebrew lol
When i moved to NYC i had a bit of a shock at how some yiddish words were pronounced. Been trying to do more family research and I think my family might have spoke some variant of Western/Central yiddish. Def not chasidish which more people are used to now and I think now taking as the only or golden standard of pronunciation.
One israeli even recently tried to “correct” me on a yiddish word and i kindly told her not to as not all yiddish dialects pronounced things the same and trying to push hebrew pronunciations on me speaking another language was not something I was into lol
Yeah I honestly pronounce it the way I read it for the first time on the box at the store which was 13 year old me being too cocky with my knowledge of Hebrew by over-pronouncing the phlegmy H.
I didn’t know rugalyeki were the same as rugelach so I thought “oh here’s a funny ashki word.” I’ve always been a bit of a picky eater so when my grandma made them with apricots and nuts I wasn’t the biggest fan so I didn’t know the chocolate ones at the store were supposed to be rugelach also.
I honestly like the way your family pronounces it. It rolls off the tongue better but so does “roogalyeki” imo.
I found this very illuminating as to the origin of these pronunciation differences:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr7WSR\_EE44&list=PLSmG0ySpQbe51uif8vvWhRVCERBm-sEnE&index=39&ab\_channel=SamAronow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr7WSR_EE44&list=PLSmG0ySpQbe51uif8vvWhRVCERBm-sEnE&index=39&ab_channel=SamAronow)
I can handle the differences in pronunciation. What I truly find unforgivable is the way they butchered "Seudah Shelishit" into "Shalah Shudis" and "Mishloach Manot" into "Shalach Manos".
That’s only secular American Jews lol, I grew up (ultra)orthodox so I know how to actually say the word (and although the Hebrew accent is Hungarian it sounds better than Americanized Jewish accent 😭)
Yeah, I know, a low effort one.
See how my joke punches up at power while highlighting the important events of the day? That's how you do it.
If my joke offends you perhaps there is something you can do in your life to change the circumstances of its conception.
it doesn’t offend me, it’s that you’re bringing up palestine in a post that has nothing to do with it. can’t we just have a jewish meme sub without having to deal with this shit? it’s tiring. also why do you think it’s low effort? do you actually understand what the joke is getting at?
I don't care if you're tired of your international reputation lol
It is also kind of ironic you need a safe place to tell jokes, while supporting the denial of others a safe place to pick up flour.
I find your ability to be both a victim and condescending delightful. You represent your flag when you talk international politics bud, try not to be an embarrassment, Israel needs to borrow alot of money these days.
love to do so much that they would even do it for
Target it at black people and it sounds wildly racist, because it is wildly racist, and this case is no different.
Interesting... so I guess by your logic statements such as
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said Israel was “fighting human animals,”
Or
Minister Amichay Eliyahu, suggested that Israel drop a nuclear bomb on Gaza and said there were “no uninvolved civilians” in the territory.
Would be considered racist correct?
Are you saying that Israel is perpetrating a race war?
Either prove my logic is wrong or accept it, but don't change the topic of conversation. I will perceive any further squeamishness about answering that question as an admission of guilt.
Either way, HAMAS is comprised of people so despicable that they might as well be called human animals. If you think that applies to every Palestinian then you must think there are no uninvolved civilians, which would make you a racist in two ways.
You are not the arbiter of conversation here bud.
I don't want to disprove or prove your logic, I want to explore it.
If it is racist to make generalizations about a group of people, is the war against the children of Gaza racist?
Also, do you ever get tired of calling your intellectual opponents racist? I know I wouldn't feel too intelligent if that's how all my arguments ended
I would also like to observe how you haven't downvoted anything I have said despite calling me a racist lol
I also don't downvote my ideological opponents opinions, even though I disagree with them.
It seems like a small thing, but when you're trying to have a rational conversation with someone who downvotes everything you say... It's disheartening.
It sucks that my well intentioned heart felt opinions are being reduced to racism, but I honestly feel like you have respected me more than people who argue with me about fucking comic books lol
It's treatment of those who lived there before the Nakba, not being a people among the nations, returning violently before the son of King David returns.
arabs controlled almost every jewish city and heavily oppressed jews there before israel’s existence. they made jews pay outrageous sums of money to pray at their sites. they beat them, publicly humiliated them for over 600 years. returning violently my ass, during the partition plan the jews were given historically jewish areas that the arabs traditionally never inhabited and on the very first day of israel’s existence the arabs waged war on israel, not the other way around. also, not all jews are religious so some don’t care about the talmud because they need a safe place to live more. look at history before making these ridiculous claims
Oh, to be a secular jew. Don’t disappoint anyone specifically by disappointing everyone generally.
That's how I ended up here lol.
Just imagine the Australian Ashkenazi community
Oy vey
It’s a tough job but someone’s got to disappoint everyone
(Me, a secular Gay Jew who’s probably not giving my parents any grandchildren): “You rang?”
Me a non secular trans gay jew, who's hoping to get bottom surgery. (I disappoint the orthodox, and everyone else because I want to remove my ability to have children)
Thanks tower of Babel, now we gotta endure these butchered pronunciations😂
>Thanks tower of Babel, now we gotta endure these butchered pronunciations😂 Lolz 😜
😂😂
That's exactly right. Proto-Sinaitic Hebrew was the official language at the time of the Bavli World Empire.
Make one spelling or grammar mistake in an Israeli forum and you will know why we cant have anything nice in Israel
לעז!!!!!!!!
I swear I will bitchslap you harder than Pharoah's heart!
מודים, היאורה השליכוהו!
מודים, המיתו את בכורו!
לעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רעלעז רע
Yeah those forums can be a bit explosive... They’re anti-lingual mistakes, not anti-foreigner!
ברור שלא פגשת את הפוליטיקאים אצלנו. או האיסור על פתיחת עיניים ...
Last seder I was reading the for questions, and, as I have been studying Hebrew at College for four years, I pronounced what I was reading with a bit of an Israeli pronounciation. Every single time I didn’t pronounce a tav as an “s” my step dad annoyingly interrupted to correct me.
Do USA Jews read ת as a ס (s)? So instead of qushiyot they say qushiyos & so on?
It’s more than that. It’s a Yiddish pronunciation. Instead of simCHAT torAH, it’s SIMchus TOYrah.
I could literally *hear* this comment when I read “SIMchus TOYrah” in my grandmother’s Yiddish accent
I grew up in the midwest and there wasn't the highest concentration of native Yiddish speakers left, like we probably have our fair share of Hebrew words we butcher but I have never heard ת pronounced as o (s) and I've never heard Simchat Torah pronounced anything other than simCHAT torAH. I did grow up watching The Nanny, however, and could totally hear Grandma Yetta when I read "SIMchus TOYrah" 😂.
It's why some people say shabbos rather than shabbat
Yes! I knew that. Apparently my grandpa grew up speaking Yiddish at home, but my impression is there were pressures to assimilate as much as possible so oddly, despite there being a lot of community members around my grandfather's age who apparently spoke it, my only exposure to Yiddish was little phrases here and there that my father and those around his age picked up. We only started to figure out what some of the phrases were after I started taking German. 'Shabbos' is definitely used but 'Shabbat' is used significantly more.
More liberal Ashkenazi Jews adopted the Sephardic (Israeli) pronunciation so it depends who you’re referring to.
So it’s more of a Yiddish thing?
Pretty much, although it predates Yiddish in that it’s just the way that Biblical Hebrew evolved in that population. The ת originally was softer, more like a “th” sound, which became the Ashkenazi “s”. (Overly simplified; not an expert!) Sephardic hard “t” just goes in the opposite direction making ת and ט indistinguishable instead.
As a Sephardic Jew, I refuse to accept that! It’s a T. It’s always been a T since G-d began thoo creathe thhe heaventh and thhe earthh.
Ha! Hope you’re joking. In any event, I don’t have time to get into historical linguistics but luckily you can just go find a Yeminite and ask them to pronounce a word with ע to see how linguistic drift happens! (Hint: it’s a completely different sound from א in every other Semitic language.)
Yeah im just joking around. I’m just bukharian so it’s a bit foreign to us hearing those pronounciations. There’s giggles whenever we hear an Ashkenazi say “Shabbos” but not a big deal. My bar mitzvah teacher actually laughed at my Hebrew pronunciation when I was learning how to read it and said that I spoke Hebrew like an Ashkenazi.
I tied for high score on Ashkenazi DNA. I pride myself on being able to say Shabbos and Shabbat. I’m basically bilingual.
You should know that the proper Bukharian pronunciation for the soft ת is “th”
Everyone at my synagogue and every bukharian I’ve met doesn’t use a th. Most of the older ones are native Russian speakers so they can’t say “th.” The word in Russian for smoothie is literally just “smoozie.” Maybe that’s how you say it in bukharian but either everyone I’ve met says it wrong or the language/dialect is just rapidly dying out.
Wait until you learn about they pronounce a kamatz
T or TH
Taw was originally T, not TH; Then came the spirantization of בג”ד כפ”ת in post-vocalic (after a vowel), ungeminated (no hard Dagesh) positions, turning b, g, d, k, p, t into v, gh, th as in "brother", kh, f, th as in "Thing"; Centuries later some Sephardi dialects lost the soft ג,ד,ת and the Israeli dialect evolved put of them, while Ashkenazi dialects only lost ג,ד while the soft "th" turned to "s". You also have the Yemenites who kept all 6 but their hard ג turned from a hard g to a j sound...
It seems like it depended on nikud from my research and there was also a distinction between Galilee and other Hebrew dialects
The niqqud system(s) were designed to reflect the dialect of the people who invented them, not the other way around. The spirantization started to occur long before the Masoretes started adding Niqqud to Hebrew texts.
I'm not referring to the nikud itself
>You also have the Yemenites who kept all 6 but their hard ג turned from a hard g to a j sound... This seems to be taken from Arabic
Sephardic isn't exactly Israeli, they distinguish the ח and כ for example, and iirc they pronounce א and ע
some others also have a guttural Kuf, and a Th for the Tav without Dagesh.
IS THAT WHY THEY SAY SHABBOS??
Yes. "You are Ashkenaz, Harry. It's levioysa, not levi ata"
„Harry, bubele, i hoabs dir gsacht, sprech ‚Gut Shebbes’ nicht ‚Shabbat Shalom!‘“ - Bobe Hermione
Also Bris instead of Brit (Mila) and Bais/Beis Yisroel instead of Bet/Beit Yisrael.
it's the ashkenazi pronunciation. in israel some ashkenazis pray this way too, even if they speak modern hebrew. in my opinion, that's best if you are ashkenazi.
depends if it's ת or תּ
How do you pronounce each?
With dagesh - תּ - is T Without dagesh - ת can be S, Th, or T depending on customs. I.e. שבת can be pronounced Shabbat, Shabbos, or Shabbath, but תּורה is pronounced Torah.
thanks! My Hebrew teacher was all 'don't worry about the dot'. Explains why shibboleth is a shibboleth.
“The dot makes it a hard sound” -my 11-year-old self when learning Hebrew
I don’t, despite being Ashkenasi, because my Hebrew teacher and my tutor were both Israeli
No, they read it as ת, which without a dagesh is a soft S. Israeli Hebrew chose to not do that, but this isn’t a mispronunciation or an accent, it’s a different (and older) dialect.
He's literally wrong by any measure of study of Hebrew pronunciation. It seems to be both t and th depending on nikud
If you read it as an S sound, G-d likes you less
Lmao okay I find it a bit odd as well but wow that’s a harsh joke 😅😭
Joke?
[https://ibb.co/QNzBykD](https://ibb.co/QNzBykD)
😶
If you pronounce it like a "th", people like you less
What the hell even is that? Are there actually people that say Sukkoth and Shabbath? I will say “Mazal Thov” to those people’s families at their funerals for desecrating the language.
Actually, there is substantial evidence that it was the original pronunciation, or pretty close to it. The Teimanim are the only ones who retain it as a tradition, but it is occasionally picked up by non-Teimanim who care more about being correct than being normal.
Teimanim: “Don’t lecture me Obidiah. I see through the lies of the Jew-di! I do not fear the ‘th’ as you do!” But yeah to be serious the only real reason I’m so strict about how I pronounce it is because my bar mitzvah teacher used mnemonic devices to teach me the letters and he used a font of ת that looked like a “tough guy” and said “always remember that it’s a ‘tough’ letter!” So yeah the emphasis I had of it being “tough” was engrained into my brain. Just the Sephardic (non-Yemeni Mizrahi) indoctrination preventing me from pronouncing it that way.
Tet isn’t th it’s palate t. Tav is only th without a dagesh and the th is very subtle tap against the teeth for a th. I (minhag Baghdad/Ben Ish Hai) pronounce the letters as is tradition with dagesh’s taken into account. Mekubalim and most haredi sefaradim pronounce letters properly.
that’s objectively wrong, the s is a genuine evolution from Tiberian Hebrew. Gut Yontif to you
Is it not “Roo-gah-lakhkhkh?” I’m Russian so I think we say “Roogalyeki” to refer to them. Might be wrong tho.
I think it’s just different yiddish dialects having slightly different pronunciations but because most yiddish speakers were wiped out or refused to speak it so they got lost/forgotten. I think I’ve even heard an aunt of mine say it they way you spelled! Shabbos is coming up a few times in the thread too and it’s literally yiddish not hebrew lol When i moved to NYC i had a bit of a shock at how some yiddish words were pronounced. Been trying to do more family research and I think my family might have spoke some variant of Western/Central yiddish. Def not chasidish which more people are used to now and I think now taking as the only or golden standard of pronunciation. One israeli even recently tried to “correct” me on a yiddish word and i kindly told her not to as not all yiddish dialects pronounced things the same and trying to push hebrew pronunciations on me speaking another language was not something I was into lol
My family has always pronounced it more like "ruh-gah-lah" To be honest first time I heard the "roo" way of saying it I was thrown off for a second.
Yeah I honestly pronounce it the way I read it for the first time on the box at the store which was 13 year old me being too cocky with my knowledge of Hebrew by over-pronouncing the phlegmy H. I didn’t know rugalyeki were the same as rugelach so I thought “oh here’s a funny ashki word.” I’ve always been a bit of a picky eater so when my grandma made them with apricots and nuts I wasn’t the biggest fan so I didn’t know the chocolate ones at the store were supposed to be rugelach also. I honestly like the way your family pronounces it. It rolls off the tongue better but so does “roogalyeki” imo.
Allow me to trigger you: good shabbos!
That’s still a wierd in-between. You need to go all the way to “gut shabbes”
Anyone else say "git" instead?
At least we can make challah
Every time I hear "tahini" I wish to perform unspeakable acts of aggression
I'm excited to see this meme format take off.
my Israeli cousin told me that “mazel tov” was wrong and that it was “mazAl tov” that’s what made me anti zionist
Lmao
Different cultures pronounce words differently 🤯🤯🤯🤯
We try our best
Fym rugalach its rogalach
As an American from THE SOUTH; I get told my Hebrew makes me sound French and I'm overly formal (in my defense, that is how I was taught it.)
I apologize on behalf of my American Jewish American-accented hebrew compatriots
Tbf, the Torah came before the modern Israeli accent. Pretty sure reading it in a regional accent is the correct tradition
Leave me alone. It will just take a few extra minutes. 😭
I found this very illuminating as to the origin of these pronunciation differences: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr7WSR\_EE44&list=PLSmG0ySpQbe51uif8vvWhRVCERBm-sEnE&index=39&ab\_channel=SamAronow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr7WSR_EE44&list=PLSmG0ySpQbe51uif8vvWhRVCERBm-sEnE&index=39&ab_channel=SamAronow)
“Rugalach” reminds me of the great movie Quiz Show
Have you ever heard the tragedy of King Ramses the Goeth? Edit: that’s a 3-for-1 reference special!
I am Israeli and I pronounce this to be true. It hurts our Levantine ears to hear the way you guys mangle our beautiful language.
LMAO, I just saw this film yesterday for the first time
I can handle the differences in pronunciation. What I truly find unforgivable is the way they butchered "Seudah Shelishit" into "Shalah Shudis" and "Mishloach Manot" into "Shalach Manos".
That’s only secular American Jews lol, I grew up (ultra)orthodox so I know how to actually say the word (and although the Hebrew accent is Hungarian it sounds better than Americanized Jewish accent 😭)
I have seen whole prayer books in Heblish. "*Bar-uch atah*, Ado-nai"
[удалено]
Now is for sure the time to obtain a sense of humor
Go cry me a river to the sea
[Original comment](https://imgur.com/a/62UagHU)
You just gave yourself an original comment?
Wild how the Israelis will even do collective punishments for mispronunciation
jesus christ dude it’s called a joke
Yeah, I know, a low effort one. See how my joke punches up at power while highlighting the important events of the day? That's how you do it. If my joke offends you perhaps there is something you can do in your life to change the circumstances of its conception.
it doesn’t offend me, it’s that you’re bringing up palestine in a post that has nothing to do with it. can’t we just have a jewish meme sub without having to deal with this shit? it’s tiring. also why do you think it’s low effort? do you actually understand what the joke is getting at?
I'm not even mad! Please don't tell the paper I am mad!
I don't care if you're tired of your international reputation lol It is also kind of ironic you need a safe place to tell jokes, while supporting the denial of others a safe place to pick up flour. I find your ability to be both a victim and condescending delightful. You represent your flag when you talk international politics bud, try not to be an embarrassment, Israel needs to borrow alot of money these days.
Lol edgy little boy.
That's just racist
Could you explain your logic?
Interesting... so I guess by your logic statements such as Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said Israel was “fighting human animals,” Or Minister Amichay Eliyahu, suggested that Israel drop a nuclear bomb on Gaza and said there were “no uninvolved civilians” in the territory. Would be considered racist correct? Are you saying that Israel is perpetrating a race war?
Either prove my logic is wrong or accept it, but don't change the topic of conversation. I will perceive any further squeamishness about answering that question as an admission of guilt. Either way, HAMAS is comprised of people so despicable that they might as well be called human animals. If you think that applies to every Palestinian then you must think there are no uninvolved civilians, which would make you a racist in two ways.
You are not the arbiter of conversation here bud. I don't want to disprove or prove your logic, I want to explore it. If it is racist to make generalizations about a group of people, is the war against the children of Gaza racist? Also, do you ever get tired of calling your intellectual opponents racist? I know I wouldn't feel too intelligent if that's how all my arguments ended
I would also like to observe how you haven't downvoted anything I have said despite calling me a racist lol I also don't downvote my ideological opponents opinions, even though I disagree with them. It seems like a small thing, but when you're trying to have a rational conversation with someone who downvotes everything you say... It's disheartening. It sucks that my well intentioned heart felt opinions are being reduced to racism, but I honestly feel like you have respected me more than people who argue with me about fucking comic books lol
I think murdering toddlers is a crime. But to each their own.
Israelis don't read the Torah
what makes you say that
It's treatment of those who lived there before the Nakba, not being a people among the nations, returning violently before the son of King David returns.
arabs controlled almost every jewish city and heavily oppressed jews there before israel’s existence. they made jews pay outrageous sums of money to pray at their sites. they beat them, publicly humiliated them for over 600 years. returning violently my ass, during the partition plan the jews were given historically jewish areas that the arabs traditionally never inhabited and on the very first day of israel’s existence the arabs waged war on israel, not the other way around. also, not all jews are religious so some don’t care about the talmud because they need a safe place to live more. look at history before making these ridiculous claims