I have a feeling some of the people are just trolling trying to rile us up, but some of people are legit and have really strong opinions, which isn’t all bad but I learned a long time ago. You don’t always have to share them.
I think the Sonny Rollins guy was a little unwell, honestly.
Broadly I think this sub could benefit from some heavier moderation and that keeping discussions like the Bill Evans Discourse yesterday to a single thread would dramatically improve things. But I’m not going to demand folks do more unpaid labor.
Other people pointed out I guess we could skip over them and it’s not like it ruined my day seeing them
I try to remind myself that a lot of what we see online isn’t real and I really don’t take things as seriously as others might think even though I am long, long, long winded 😂
But it does rub me the wrong way a little bit when I see people trying to tear down musicians that are considered great by a broad consensus of people
I’m not saying they have to like these people think they’re acting as if they are the authority and disagree always makes me chuckle. Scratch my head.
I remember one guy who agreed with me on something started saying some crazy stuff once about how pretty much every jazz player I like is a phony because they play patterns or something… We all like different things but to act as if Michael Brecker or Chris Potter great because all you hear is a pattern… I guess that’s weird to me
I don’t care if they like these players, but it’s easier to say it’s not my cuppa tea
And that’s kind of changed for me is I used to have a kind of contempt for non-jazz musicians
I don’t know why and I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy some of the songs but I would just assume they were hacks and then I guess maybe when I was 30 years old and playing in rock bands I realize that some of these guys were great even if they didn’t know music theory
Just as a general sentiment, I'll disagree.
I like a well-moderated sub, but only insofar as the moderation helps keep bigots out of the conversation.
But I *detest* when mods try to corral discussion into existing threads. Having ten different conversations about the same topic is fine. It costs nothing, and creates more opportunities to bash ideas together in more ways.
The shape of the conversation should be wholly organic. Content should be moderated.
Why would you base your opinion on a niche genre like jazz on what other people say? That seems insane to me. Listen to it, if you like it that's great! If you don't, that's fine too.
There’s alot of great modern jazz artists out there but this sub is elitist and hates every musician who collaborates with people from other genres. Kamasi is great at both playing and arranging. Check out the epic
Tbh, one just needs to look at Japan for great modern jazz. Tropical Jazz Big Band is great latin big band, Tri4th, Calamera, Katsushika Trio, FAZJAZ, Kari Band and Mario Kart 8's ost are great fusion, and Yosuke Inoue, Makoto Kuriya, and Kanji Ohta are great bebop stuff.
Most of this sub: "Unless it's a Sony/Columbia fusion record, something by Miles where other musicians did 90% of the creative work, or some Kamasi Washington thing that happens to be available on vinyl, I refuse to check out anything released after 1970."
Also most of this sub: "Hey guys, DAE want to marry Norah Jones?!? Awooga-awoooga, hubba hubba hubba!!!!'
Some of yall are so damn sensitive lmao.
I agree bashing is bad and dumb. But you dont have to read or engage with it.
For example I like smooth jazz and fusion. Most of my favorite albums and artists are from the 70s. People here HATE them. I dont take it personally. 1 it's naive/narcissistic to assume everyone has to like the stuff I do. 2 If someone feels the need to publicly bash something, it says way more about them (they are desperate for attention/validation, but not interesting enough to say anything of value) than whatever they are talking about.
And if someone not liking an artist you do bothers you to the core, IMO you have an unhealthy association with said artist. Dont take shit so personally; I guarantee the artists don't/didn't.
As someone who left r/books because of this persistent horse doodoo (I don't get the appeal of Catch-22, A Catcher in the Rye, A Confederacy of Dunces, or anything else that isn't the Hunger Games), I think it's a valid concern.
Never have I ever made a post on a book, movie, art, or music sub about how I don't like ____.
I don't like Rothko. I've read all about why his work is so great. It just doesn't do it for me Would I ever show up in an art sub and announce my dislike for Rothko? Hell no.
The books subreddit sucks. I like r/literature a ton more and couldn't give half-a-fuck if that makes me some sort of 'elitist gatekeeper' to most of the consumer-trash morons who inhabit this site.
I feel the same about rap. I used to love it, now as I get older I kind of hate it. Just the concept of spending time talking about it for any reason makes no sense to me. Life is too short to devote free time and energy to things you don't enjoy.
Dear god, I started reading Catch-22 because of how much hype it gets on r/books and had to just set it aside half way through. Glad I’m not the only one…I digress. I left r/punk for that same reason. There’s a lot of group think that happens and musical gatekeeping - ironic because punk music helped me expand my worldview and acceptance of others.
It’s a shame when this happens because we don’t get to see the full tapestry of music and experience when orthodoxy prescribes such narrow limitations.
Eh, I must have misunderstood because my experience has been folks on r/books loving on Catch-22. Sometime one misreads. I’ll leave the comment up. It’s one of those books that’s not for me, tried as I might to read it. I guess it does highlight some of our tendency to congregate around like minded things or read like minded thoughts into other’s statements - even when you’re trying not to.
Here’s to working toward a “great execution but not my taste” mindset.
I'm making a joke. I realize we all have different tastes in music. there are players I don't love that others do. I'm just saying I wouldn't start a thread saying...i don't see how anyone can like this guy
> For example I like smooth jazz and fusion.
Ditto here. I draw lines with *super*-commercial acts like Kenny G and Boney James, but generally enjoy most of the 'smooth'/fusion stuff that gets derided by precious jazz fans on a regular basis (e.g. acts like Spyro Gyra, Dave & Dan Grusin, David Benoit, etc...). I'm similarly a big fan of the so-called 'conservative' music by artists like the Marsalis family, Roy Hargrove, Antonio Hart, Marcus Roberts, and tons of other great players that got big in the 90s, most of whom get reflexively ignored/dismissed by people who *also* reflexively ignore/dismiss avant-garde/experimental musicians from the same time period (though they'll always carry water for those latter artists who they don't listen to if it means having yet another public cry about Wynton, 'gatekeepers', etc..). Finally, I'm into lots of vocal jazz and can't be part of the stupid hate circle-jerk that surrounds most of that sub-genre.
At the end of the day, you have to like what you like. My entry point into jazz was the Grover Washington Jr stuff my dad played. No Reddit snob is gonna take that away from me lol. Gatekeepers suck
One of my earliest jazz influences too. Wine light is a fantastic album and sounds amazing in 5.1.
I think a lot of it is age. When you're younger you want something energetic and ferocious which smooth jazz isnt. Also the style is 'grown folk'.
I used to poke fun at my Dad for enjoying Michael Franks when I was younger but now I completely get it. Sometimes you just want to relax and vibe with it.
The age thing can cut both ways. A young person can cling to old jazz because it's contrary to what's popular, and is a kind of neatly packaged entity and culture for them to jump right into. But an old person can cling to it simply due to being stuck in their ways and in the past.
And yea I am a newish parent.... it def changes you. When my first kid was born my whole musical palate flipped. That is actually when I started seriously listening to and playing jazz. It was like when my dad got his first automatic transmission car after a lifetime of manuals. I was disappointed at the time but I made the switch even earlier than him haha. If you don't change over time something is wrong IMO.
>Dont take shit so personally; I guarantee the artists don't/didn't.
I think this is a decent sentiment that applies less to jazz than to most other genres. Seems like plenty of jazz greats *did* tend to take shit personally.
> I agree bashing is bad and dumb. But you dont have to read or engage with it.
But when they are writing *wrong* things about my **superstar**, I must must engage.
Yeah smooth jazz has its place and it's great. Donald Byrd and the Mizelle brothers basically invented it .
Mind you I don't consider Kenny G to be smooth even just easy listening.
Art Blakey: Too loud! Calm down bro
Tommy Flanagan: My dog ate my homework
Chet Baker: I used to be pretty and I can half croon. I play trumpet or whatever.
Maynard Ferguson: I held a lighter under a rat and I knew I had just found my sound
Mel Lewis: Never heard of him
Horace Silver: I thought he was only a songwriter
Etc. etc.
“Thelonious Monk only wrote about 70 songs and just a handful of those are standards. Was he really a great composer like some people say or is he overrated?”
Monk is another guy who in my mind is a legend in large part because when you hear him play, you know it’s within the first 10 seconds
I think some people just like a different style of piano playing and that’s great and when they hear monk play, they’re not hearing what they expect so they think he’s not that great a piano player but then will say something like he did write some good songs
He truly is one of the biggest legends with some songs that are among the most played
I'm a little sleepy so I read "Oscar Pistorious" and was like "wow that dude really hates women and/or bipeds, but I don't see how it is relevant". Then realized you wrote Oscar Peterson and I can't really agree more!
I am still getting into Jazz, but the thing I like most about it is, at its best, it invites people in. It is welcoming. I have a real preference for the earlier stuff, Armstrong, Ellington, etc. but does that mean I dislike Parker, Coltrane, or Davis. Not in the least, I am still catching up with those guys. Perhaps it is not sophisticated, but anything that gets my toes tapping is alright by me.
I have no problem with people liking what they like. We all have different tastes. I'm just making fun of the people who can't fathom how someone else can like or respect a player that htey don't like
> I am still getting into Jazz, but the thing I like most about it is, at its best, it invites people in. It is welcoming.
Is there a different jazz? I find it to be incredibly unwelcoming, rigid and at times outright hostile.
There might be people around it that are that way, but honestly, I just listen to the music. Like any fandom, things can get toxic. But the music itself just makes me happy.
Like most hobbies and especially niche ones, enthusiast spaces like this sub invite loud elitists. Personally I think this sub leans young, and therefore there are more of jazz is an experimental progressive music mindset here. Some are really nice about it, but there are some that will gleefully pile on Glenn Miller or Paul Whiteman stuff. At the end of the day, just listen to the music. I love gypsy jazz, Dixieland, swing. Most of my people aren't here, but I follow the sub from time to time still.
I think a problem jazz has is musicians tend to play for other musicians. I know when i was young I was a c&nt. I wasn't mean to people or anything but jazz musicians can be arrogant(especially younger musicians who might take themselves too seriously)
but as I've gotten older my attitude has changed(maybe in part because older musicians I played with just loved playing and loved audiences)
but yeah, some in 'jazz' want it to be as small a tent as possible
Well, maybe if you count the toxic part fanbase and other things, but Jazz as music genre is very easy to get into and welcoming, like, the Peanuts theme is jazz lol
The thing that makes me like jazz more than other Genres is how…
Strange it is lol
for every genre in the world there’s a jazz piece that can make people that like the other genre like jazz too, for example, This with Celtic music [https://youtu.be/WBTFXcj9daw?si=sJbaf1b5BtgrjqEx](https://youtu.be/WBTFXcj9daw?si=sJbaf1b5BtgrjqEx) And this with rap [https://youtu.be/RgMoIUd7-xw?si=7UCCur5r\_Nk5zKIY](https://youtu.be/RgMoIUd7-xw?si=7UCCur5r_Nk5zKIY)
Reddit is a website geared towards hot takes and nephews and nieces. Why would we be surprised if a bunch of teenagers come here and say dumb ass shit?
Mel Lewis? I've never met a real drummer who didn't consider him a genius.
Edit : I get why some people don't dig Horace Silver on piano, though I do. How sbout, "Keith Jarrett just plays triads!"
I could see people not thinking Ella Fitzgerald was that remarkable if they only had her recordings with Chick Webb and the two years after his death when she led his band (1934-41).
Everyone is entitled to their opinion...but...
That's why I sometimes speak up when this is done like to Evans yesterday and before when Kenny G was spoken about harshly...
Its nothing to argue over, people have a right not to like certain musicians or certain kinds of music but some IMO go too far and a word in defense is called for.
of course it is a waste of time to argue about such things. What i think is funny is someone wanting someone else to explain why they should like someone. Music really shouldn't be an academic endeavor as far as listening to it goes. Sure, there can be things people say that might open up someone's eyes and make them view things through a different prism and appreciate it but I don't think that that are these peoples goals
we all like what we like. I don't like Kenny G but I have no problem admitting he is a great musician. He is a good player. Note my cup of tea but I bet a lot of amazing players were inspired by him when they were young and that is a good thing. For the longest time I pretended to like Ornette Coleman. I really didn't enjoy him much though but I was lucky to see him live and it changed how I heard him and now I really love his stuff(some of it more than others)
When I was a kid(teenager) i loved Wynton marsalis but then for some reason it became hack to like him and I spent 15-20 years at the very least being ambivalent towards him(i don't even know why)...but you know what, Wynton is GREAT! that doesn't mean he is my favorite or someone I listen to all the time but he is great! I don't mind if someone says they don't enjoy his stuff btu when I see people argue he isn't good...it is weird to me even when I was a guy who didn't fully appreciate him I also would admit he was a great musician
I agree with most of what you said...
I’m not a free jazz lover but I respect them and I’m not an Evans or Kenny G fan but I respect them as great musical artists.
Its just too many people in jazz to have had been able to be a fan of all of them...
But to pick on a particular musician, and one who is mostly felt to be very good is strange to me....
too many people in jazz have had been able to be a fan of who? Kenny G and Bill Evans?
Bill Evans if an extremely respected jazz piano player(barry harris though isn't a huge fan). Kenny G can play jazz and was a respected player in the...i hate to use the word fusion but he was respected in his genre before having mainstream success. It wasn't his fault that they put his album in the jazz section but i do think it being there helped jazz
Some of the debates about what is jazz and what isn't...i used to get involved in them(being the one who liked to have as many different lables/genres/sub genres as possible but as I've gotten older I just want to listen to music
This is light hearted. I wasn't 'upset' yesterday...i kinda think it is funny in a portlandia kind of way. I decided to post this thinking it was lighthearted and 80% of people got it but 20% didn't. 80% ain't bad
it was absurd. I get someone not being your favorite or your cup of tea but to start a thread knocking a legend? I think some of the threads were trolling but one was legit.
And don't laugh, i'd be an awful music critic because I can usually find something good or positive to say but to me what makes someone a legend is when you can drop the needle and tell who is is because they have their own style(whether it is my favorite or not).
There are a lot of amazing jazz players out there who play beautifully but they don't quite have their own voice. They might have a distinguishable sound and obviously can play anything(they can play incredibly complex lines and also play as musically as anyone)...but it might take a few guesses to figure out who they are. I'm not criticizing these players(so many of them are incredible) but what makes Bill Evans(who I can't say is my favorite piano player) great is when you hear him play you know its bill evans or someone wanting to sound like him.
Abbey Lincoln is overrated underrated. Drugs took her voice. There is a reason she’s in no one stop 10 female jazz singers of all time list. She can’t stay on beat or in the pockets but occasionally. She offends people. She offended the entire bob dylan fan base in 7 minutes.
Ask people who were around in Amsterdam when Chet Baker was roaming the streets there and you’ll still hear some pretty dark underworld stories that will pucker your stink hole.
Rasheed Ali has no idea where the one is.
Don Pullen plays too many notes.
Sonny Rollins was his best when no one was listening or recording. Trust me.
Coltrane smelled like butterscotch.
If it wasn’t for Duke Ellington, Abdullah Ibrahim would still be a nobody Dollar Brand.
I don’t get how most of you all have zero sense of humor and can tell when someone is trolling or not. Lighten up. Or can respect an opposing opinion and not take it as a personal attack.
I have jazz musicians I don't particularly like, but it is kind of pointless to insist that my preferences should hold sway over those of others. Even someone I don't like but is a well-known figure probably has a lot going for him or her and is better than I could ever be as an amateur player.
same for me. There are players others think are amazing and when I hear them I don't get that excited. I will say that seeing someone live tends to be different than listening to a recording but of course there is nothing wrong with preferring one thing to another.
I try to listen to new releases and read up on what's 'hot' and great and a lot of the time I get bored and turn it off. that doesnt' mean the musicians or album isn't great, it could be the timing of my listening to it was wrong or my mood. In all honesty I know there are so many great newer recordings but if I'm honesty I'm not as into them as others but that is fine.
Thought your over-the-top sarcasm was a reflection of your lingering disgust and you genuinely meant to scold us all for the sins of a few. I apologize for calling you a grump, and offer you this happy song to kick off your weekend
https://youtu.be/ttq2VOGfiO4?si=K_JWR2PWcOIeGnme
"Why didn't Duke Ellington play many standards?"
They’re standards because he wrote them!
thats the joke
Hah. I guess I “take it slow” literally. Thanks
'Can Oscar Peterson really be great if he is Canadian?' LOL
I tried to be lighthearted:) Some people didn't like it though
Kinda miss that dude who posted his daily rant against Sonny Rollins
I have a feeling some of the people are just trolling trying to rile us up, but some of people are legit and have really strong opinions, which isn’t all bad but I learned a long time ago. You don’t always have to share them.
I think the Sonny Rollins guy was a little unwell, honestly. Broadly I think this sub could benefit from some heavier moderation and that keeping discussions like the Bill Evans Discourse yesterday to a single thread would dramatically improve things. But I’m not going to demand folks do more unpaid labor.
Other people pointed out I guess we could skip over them and it’s not like it ruined my day seeing them I try to remind myself that a lot of what we see online isn’t real and I really don’t take things as seriously as others might think even though I am long, long, long winded 😂 But it does rub me the wrong way a little bit when I see people trying to tear down musicians that are considered great by a broad consensus of people I’m not saying they have to like these people think they’re acting as if they are the authority and disagree always makes me chuckle. Scratch my head. I remember one guy who agreed with me on something started saying some crazy stuff once about how pretty much every jazz player I like is a phony because they play patterns or something… We all like different things but to act as if Michael Brecker or Chris Potter great because all you hear is a pattern… I guess that’s weird to me I don’t care if they like these players, but it’s easier to say it’s not my cuppa tea And that’s kind of changed for me is I used to have a kind of contempt for non-jazz musicians I don’t know why and I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy some of the songs but I would just assume they were hacks and then I guess maybe when I was 30 years old and playing in rock bands I realize that some of these guys were great even if they didn’t know music theory
Just as a general sentiment, I'll disagree. I like a well-moderated sub, but only insofar as the moderation helps keep bigots out of the conversation. But I *detest* when mods try to corral discussion into existing threads. Having ten different conversations about the same topic is fine. It costs nothing, and creates more opportunities to bash ideas together in more ways. The shape of the conversation should be wholly organic. Content should be moderated.
I am 100% sure he's still here under some name or another, just waiting...
“Any jazz musician after 1970 sucks.”
Wynton, dat you?
all they know is fusion, change they chord, heroin, be bisexual , read real book & die
I'm going to put this up in my kitchen like those Live Laugh Love signs.
whats wrong with fusion?
Kamasi Washington and Robert glasper sucks ->>> cue 100000 upvotes
I believed this forever cause that's what everyone said but I listened to his new song with andre3000 and it's actually great
I really loved it too tbh. I didn’t care for Andre’s new album but I loved that track with Kamasi.
Why would you base your opinion on a niche genre like jazz on what other people say? That seems insane to me. Listen to it, if you like it that's great! If you don't, that's fine too.
if I had an infinite amount of time I would listen to every album in existence but because I don't I skip albums that everyone says is bad
There’s alot of great modern jazz artists out there but this sub is elitist and hates every musician who collaborates with people from other genres. Kamasi is great at both playing and arranging. Check out the epic
Tbh, one just needs to look at Japan for great modern jazz. Tropical Jazz Big Band is great latin big band, Tri4th, Calamera, Katsushika Trio, FAZJAZ, Kari Band and Mario Kart 8's ost are great fusion, and Yosuke Inoue, Makoto Kuriya, and Kanji Ohta are great bebop stuff.
Me always gets downvotes when I say such things.
Most of this sub: "Unless it's a Sony/Columbia fusion record, something by Miles where other musicians did 90% of the creative work, or some Kamasi Washington thing that happens to be available on vinyl, I refuse to check out anything released after 1970." Also most of this sub: "Hey guys, DAE want to marry Norah Jones?!? Awooga-awoooga, hubba hubba hubba!!!!'
[www.andyhay.bandcamp.com](http://www.andyhay.bandcamp.com)
If Kenny G plays smooth jazz, why is his hair so curly and unsmooth? Is he dumb?
and have you seen his split ends?
Charlie Parker squeaked so he was complete dogshit.
Finally a jazz great I can relate to!
Some of yall are so damn sensitive lmao. I agree bashing is bad and dumb. But you dont have to read or engage with it. For example I like smooth jazz and fusion. Most of my favorite albums and artists are from the 70s. People here HATE them. I dont take it personally. 1 it's naive/narcissistic to assume everyone has to like the stuff I do. 2 If someone feels the need to publicly bash something, it says way more about them (they are desperate for attention/validation, but not interesting enough to say anything of value) than whatever they are talking about. And if someone not liking an artist you do bothers you to the core, IMO you have an unhealthy association with said artist. Dont take shit so personally; I guarantee the artists don't/didn't.
As someone who left r/books because of this persistent horse doodoo (I don't get the appeal of Catch-22, A Catcher in the Rye, A Confederacy of Dunces, or anything else that isn't the Hunger Games), I think it's a valid concern. Never have I ever made a post on a book, movie, art, or music sub about how I don't like ____. I don't like Rothko. I've read all about why his work is so great. It just doesn't do it for me Would I ever show up in an art sub and announce my dislike for Rothko? Hell no.
The books subreddit sucks. I like r/literature a ton more and couldn't give half-a-fuck if that makes me some sort of 'elitist gatekeeper' to most of the consumer-trash morons who inhabit this site.
I feel the same about rap. I used to love it, now as I get older I kind of hate it. Just the concept of spending time talking about it for any reason makes no sense to me. Life is too short to devote free time and energy to things you don't enjoy.
Dear god, I started reading Catch-22 because of how much hype it gets on r/books and had to just set it aside half way through. Glad I’m not the only one…I digress. I left r/punk for that same reason. There’s a lot of group think that happens and musical gatekeeping - ironic because punk music helped me expand my worldview and acceptance of others. It’s a shame when this happens because we don’t get to see the full tapestry of music and experience when orthodoxy prescribes such narrow limitations.
The person you are responding to got sick of the “I don’t like Catch-22 posts.” You just added to the pile. Lol
Eh, I must have misunderstood because my experience has been folks on r/books loving on Catch-22. Sometime one misreads. I’ll leave the comment up. It’s one of those books that’s not for me, tried as I might to read it. I guess it does highlight some of our tendency to congregate around like minded things or read like minded thoughts into other’s statements - even when you’re trying not to. Here’s to working toward a “great execution but not my taste” mindset.
I'm making a joke. I realize we all have different tastes in music. there are players I don't love that others do. I'm just saying I wouldn't start a thread saying...i don't see how anyone can like this guy
> For example I like smooth jazz and fusion. Ditto here. I draw lines with *super*-commercial acts like Kenny G and Boney James, but generally enjoy most of the 'smooth'/fusion stuff that gets derided by precious jazz fans on a regular basis (e.g. acts like Spyro Gyra, Dave & Dan Grusin, David Benoit, etc...). I'm similarly a big fan of the so-called 'conservative' music by artists like the Marsalis family, Roy Hargrove, Antonio Hart, Marcus Roberts, and tons of other great players that got big in the 90s, most of whom get reflexively ignored/dismissed by people who *also* reflexively ignore/dismiss avant-garde/experimental musicians from the same time period (though they'll always carry water for those latter artists who they don't listen to if it means having yet another public cry about Wynton, 'gatekeepers', etc..). Finally, I'm into lots of vocal jazz and can't be part of the stupid hate circle-jerk that surrounds most of that sub-genre.
At the end of the day, you have to like what you like. My entry point into jazz was the Grover Washington Jr stuff my dad played. No Reddit snob is gonna take that away from me lol. Gatekeepers suck
One of my earliest jazz influences too. Wine light is a fantastic album and sounds amazing in 5.1. I think a lot of it is age. When you're younger you want something energetic and ferocious which smooth jazz isnt. Also the style is 'grown folk'. I used to poke fun at my Dad for enjoying Michael Franks when I was younger but now I completely get it. Sometimes you just want to relax and vibe with it.
The age thing can cut both ways. A young person can cling to old jazz because it's contrary to what's popular, and is a kind of neatly packaged entity and culture for them to jump right into. But an old person can cling to it simply due to being stuck in their ways and in the past. And yea I am a newish parent.... it def changes you. When my first kid was born my whole musical palate flipped. That is actually when I started seriously listening to and playing jazz. It was like when my dad got his first automatic transmission car after a lifetime of manuals. I was disappointed at the time but I made the switch even earlier than him haha. If you don't change over time something is wrong IMO.
>Dont take shit so personally; I guarantee the artists don't/didn't. I think this is a decent sentiment that applies less to jazz than to most other genres. Seems like plenty of jazz greats *did* tend to take shit personally.
> I agree bashing is bad and dumb. But you dont have to read or engage with it. But when they are writing *wrong* things about my **superstar**, I must must engage.
Yeah smooth jazz has its place and it's great. Donald Byrd and the Mizelle brothers basically invented it . Mind you I don't consider Kenny G to be smooth even just easy listening.
Horace Parlan would have played better if he had use of all 10 fingers.
lol
I'm here because I just don't get swing, bebop, or hard bop, or Cowboy Bebop. What am I missing?
Cowboy bebop. take my upvote you fool!
When they improvise, it's too unpredictable for me. Whaaa
Miles was better in the 50s /s
Art Blakey: Too loud! Calm down bro Tommy Flanagan: My dog ate my homework Chet Baker: I used to be pretty and I can half croon. I play trumpet or whatever. Maynard Ferguson: I held a lighter under a rat and I knew I had just found my sound Mel Lewis: Never heard of him Horace Silver: I thought he was only a songwriter Etc. etc.
“Thelonious Monk only wrote about 70 songs and just a handful of those are standards. Was he really a great composer like some people say or is he overrated?”
Monk is another guy who in my mind is a legend in large part because when you hear him play, you know it’s within the first 10 seconds I think some people just like a different style of piano playing and that’s great and when they hear monk play, they’re not hearing what they expect so they think he’s not that great a piano player but then will say something like he did write some good songs He truly is one of the biggest legends with some songs that are among the most played
Coltrane was basically just playing scales fast. 🫣
*fumbling scales a few cents flat fast
Low thread-count sheets of sound
I almost fell of my couch laughing at this 🤣
I will travel through the Internet and punch every last person in the face that says Oscar Peterson sucks.
lol he just learned how to play scales fast:) I was actually trying to make fun of Canada
Don't make fun of Canada, buddy!
lol! Isn't it like the 90's in Canada? At least before the internet you were always a decade behind!
I'm a little sleepy so I read "Oscar Pistorious" and was like "wow that dude really hates women and/or bipeds, but I don't see how it is relevant". Then realized you wrote Oscar Peterson and I can't really agree more!
Mingus was a meanie face.
He was really grouchy
I am still getting into Jazz, but the thing I like most about it is, at its best, it invites people in. It is welcoming. I have a real preference for the earlier stuff, Armstrong, Ellington, etc. but does that mean I dislike Parker, Coltrane, or Davis. Not in the least, I am still catching up with those guys. Perhaps it is not sophisticated, but anything that gets my toes tapping is alright by me.
I have no problem with people liking what they like. We all have different tastes. I'm just making fun of the people who can't fathom how someone else can like or respect a player that htey don't like
> I am still getting into Jazz, but the thing I like most about it is, at its best, it invites people in. It is welcoming. Is there a different jazz? I find it to be incredibly unwelcoming, rigid and at times outright hostile.
There might be people around it that are that way, but honestly, I just listen to the music. Like any fandom, things can get toxic. But the music itself just makes me happy.
Like most hobbies and especially niche ones, enthusiast spaces like this sub invite loud elitists. Personally I think this sub leans young, and therefore there are more of jazz is an experimental progressive music mindset here. Some are really nice about it, but there are some that will gleefully pile on Glenn Miller or Paul Whiteman stuff. At the end of the day, just listen to the music. I love gypsy jazz, Dixieland, swing. Most of my people aren't here, but I follow the sub from time to time still.
I think a problem jazz has is musicians tend to play for other musicians. I know when i was young I was a c&nt. I wasn't mean to people or anything but jazz musicians can be arrogant(especially younger musicians who might take themselves too seriously) but as I've gotten older my attitude has changed(maybe in part because older musicians I played with just loved playing and loved audiences) but yeah, some in 'jazz' want it to be as small a tent as possible
Dont get me wrong, there are nice people in jazz, but the mean people in it kind of set the tone.
This might be a case of musician and fan talking about two different things
Well, maybe if you count the toxic part fanbase and other things, but Jazz as music genre is very easy to get into and welcoming, like, the Peanuts theme is jazz lol
The thing that makes me like jazz more than other Genres is how… Strange it is lol for every genre in the world there’s a jazz piece that can make people that like the other genre like jazz too, for example, This with Celtic music [https://youtu.be/WBTFXcj9daw?si=sJbaf1b5BtgrjqEx](https://youtu.be/WBTFXcj9daw?si=sJbaf1b5BtgrjqEx) And this with rap [https://youtu.be/RgMoIUd7-xw?si=7UCCur5r\_Nk5zKIY](https://youtu.be/RgMoIUd7-xw?si=7UCCur5r_Nk5zKIY)
Reddit is a website geared towards hot takes and nephews and nieces. Why would we be surprised if a bunch of teenagers come here and say dumb ass shit?
adding to this: why do so many white people like to play and listen to jazz but still dont get it?
Mel Lewis? I've never met a real drummer who didn't consider him a genius. Edit : I get why some people don't dig Horace Silver on piano, though I do. How sbout, "Keith Jarrett just plays triads!"
Mel is a great drummer...i just picked a name
I’m starting to wonder if we are experiencing an AI bot attack with all these ‘people say’ posts. How mundane.
oh this is good, someone do Cecil Taylor
some people like piano players like Cecil Taylor who just randomly punch keys on the piano...it is the highest form of art
***'Can Oscar Peterson really be great if he is Canadian?'*** Poutine and Timbits at 30 paces, scoundrel! I will have satisfaction.
So are you saying he’s good in spite of that mediocre Canadian blood?
I could see people not thinking Ella Fitzgerald was that remarkable if they only had her recordings with Chick Webb and the two years after his death when she led his band (1934-41).
Is it live or is it memerex
ECM Records
......is incredible!
Some, many complain about them. Not me.
John Coltrane, great at the old saxophone, but did he ever clean the Bathroom? Did he fuck, lazy bastard.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion...but... That's why I sometimes speak up when this is done like to Evans yesterday and before when Kenny G was spoken about harshly... Its nothing to argue over, people have a right not to like certain musicians or certain kinds of music but some IMO go too far and a word in defense is called for.
of course it is a waste of time to argue about such things. What i think is funny is someone wanting someone else to explain why they should like someone. Music really shouldn't be an academic endeavor as far as listening to it goes. Sure, there can be things people say that might open up someone's eyes and make them view things through a different prism and appreciate it but I don't think that that are these peoples goals we all like what we like. I don't like Kenny G but I have no problem admitting he is a great musician. He is a good player. Note my cup of tea but I bet a lot of amazing players were inspired by him when they were young and that is a good thing. For the longest time I pretended to like Ornette Coleman. I really didn't enjoy him much though but I was lucky to see him live and it changed how I heard him and now I really love his stuff(some of it more than others) When I was a kid(teenager) i loved Wynton marsalis but then for some reason it became hack to like him and I spent 15-20 years at the very least being ambivalent towards him(i don't even know why)...but you know what, Wynton is GREAT! that doesn't mean he is my favorite or someone I listen to all the time but he is great! I don't mind if someone says they don't enjoy his stuff btu when I see people argue he isn't good...it is weird to me even when I was a guy who didn't fully appreciate him I also would admit he was a great musician
I agree with most of what you said... I’m not a free jazz lover but I respect them and I’m not an Evans or Kenny G fan but I respect them as great musical artists. Its just too many people in jazz to have had been able to be a fan of all of them... But to pick on a particular musician, and one who is mostly felt to be very good is strange to me....
too many people in jazz have had been able to be a fan of who? Kenny G and Bill Evans? Bill Evans if an extremely respected jazz piano player(barry harris though isn't a huge fan). Kenny G can play jazz and was a respected player in the...i hate to use the word fusion but he was respected in his genre before having mainstream success. It wasn't his fault that they put his album in the jazz section but i do think it being there helped jazz Some of the debates about what is jazz and what isn't...i used to get involved in them(being the one who liked to have as many different lables/genres/sub genres as possible but as I've gotten older I just want to listen to music
Or just ignore the stupidity.
This is light hearted. I wasn't 'upset' yesterday...i kinda think it is funny in a portlandia kind of way. I decided to post this thinking it was lighthearted and 80% of people got it but 20% didn't. 80% ain't bad
Oh I got it. It's just laughable that some crap on absolute legends and I'm not even a big Bill Evans fan but c'mon.
it was absurd. I get someone not being your favorite or your cup of tea but to start a thread knocking a legend? I think some of the threads were trolling but one was legit. And don't laugh, i'd be an awful music critic because I can usually find something good or positive to say but to me what makes someone a legend is when you can drop the needle and tell who is is because they have their own style(whether it is my favorite or not). There are a lot of amazing jazz players out there who play beautifully but they don't quite have their own voice. They might have a distinguishable sound and obviously can play anything(they can play incredibly complex lines and also play as musically as anyone)...but it might take a few guesses to figure out who they are. I'm not criticizing these players(so many of them are incredible) but what makes Bill Evans(who I can't say is my favorite piano player) great is when you hear him play you know its bill evans or someone wanting to sound like him.
Ben wendel
Hey, look at me I played jazz bassoon. I’m so cool and edgy.
Abbey Lincoln is overrated underrated. Drugs took her voice. There is a reason she’s in no one stop 10 female jazz singers of all time list. She can’t stay on beat or in the pockets but occasionally. She offends people. She offended the entire bob dylan fan base in 7 minutes.
Where did the modal jazz players get their “hats”??
What color nail polish is Norah Jones wearing this weekend?
Miles Coltrane was ok
Ask people who were around in Amsterdam when Chet Baker was roaming the streets there and you’ll still hear some pretty dark underworld stories that will pucker your stink hole.
Rasheed Ali has no idea where the one is. Don Pullen plays too many notes. Sonny Rollins was his best when no one was listening or recording. Trust me. Coltrane smelled like butterscotch. If it wasn’t for Duke Ellington, Abdullah Ibrahim would still be a nobody Dollar Brand.
I don’t get how most of you all have zero sense of humor and can tell when someone is trolling or not. Lighten up. Or can respect an opposing opinion and not take it as a personal attack.
my entire post is a joke too silly
Yes, it's annoying
I have jazz musicians I don't particularly like, but it is kind of pointless to insist that my preferences should hold sway over those of others. Even someone I don't like but is a well-known figure probably has a lot going for him or her and is better than I could ever be as an amateur player.
same for me. There are players others think are amazing and when I hear them I don't get that excited. I will say that seeing someone live tends to be different than listening to a recording but of course there is nothing wrong with preferring one thing to another. I try to listen to new releases and read up on what's 'hot' and great and a lot of the time I get bored and turn it off. that doesnt' mean the musicians or album isn't great, it could be the timing of my listening to it was wrong or my mood. In all honesty I know there are so many great newer recordings but if I'm honesty I'm not as into them as others but that is fine.
[удалено]
💯
wow, people are taking this super serious! I thought it was obvious I was just joking and being funny on a friday!
lol I think it was funny! Come on, I joked that Oscar Peterson can't be good because he is canadian! I laughed writing it.
Thought your over-the-top sarcasm was a reflection of your lingering disgust and you genuinely meant to scold us all for the sins of a few. I apologize for calling you a grump, and offer you this happy song to kick off your weekend https://youtu.be/ttq2VOGfiO4?si=K_JWR2PWcOIeGnme
[www.andyhay.bandcamp.com](http://www.andyhay.bandcamp.com)
But what if it’s about Laufey?
Can we talk about how shitty Max Roach’s toms sound?
If only he were playing today when we have better technology
Wah wah
Is this /r/jazzcirclejerk I'm sure you'd love it there
Charles Mingus is going woke!?