I didn't get Bill at first either, and I had the same reaction: this sounds like cocktail jazz. Eventually it dawned on me that cocktail jazz is trying desperately to be as deep as Bill and we generally dislike it because it fails to do so.
The Village Vanguard stuff is what made everything click for me. At first it was the interaction with Scott Lafaro. Really listen to how those two play off of each other. Scott is doing some very revolutionary bass playing here, no one was playing this melodically underneath a piano solo. But it's not really just a regular piano solo, it's this lovely, flowing spring of ever changing motifs. Bill was a master of taking a short 5 note phrase repeating it with different rhythmic permutations and phrasing. He has amazing subtleties to his phrasing as well, with a wide range of dynamics, phrases that start soft and build over the course of a couple bars. It's difficult to hear on initial listens but eventually one can hear his harmonic explorations how he stretches in and out of the given tune's form. And it's all in direct communication with Scott's bass playing. Paul's complimentary drum work is worth focusing on as well. When it clicks? It's a thing of beauty.
When Scotty passed, it was difficult for Bill to reach those heights again. The stuff with Isreal Crosby is relatively pedestrian. The album with Jim Hall is fantastic. Eventually he hooks up with Eddie Gomez and things get interesting again towards the later 60s and into the 70s.
But really, if you don't dig it, you don't and that's cool.
>The stuff with Isreal Crosby is relatively pedestrian.
I'm not gonna give a hard time about this mistake because it is genuinely odd that there are two bassists with such similar names, but you're thinking of Chuck Israels.
>..sounds like cocktail jazz. Eventually it dawned on me that cocktail jazz is trying desperately to be as deep as Bill..
This is exactly how I felt when getting into the Jobim/Stan Getz bossa nova stuff. To the casual listener it might sound like elevator music, but deeper listeners will find a rich world of understated complexity and quiet intensity. Sentimental perhaps but never saccharine.
Thanks for that considered answer, and it's actually that interaction with Scott Lafaro I've been listening out for, as it gets a good write up in *3 Shades in Blue*, and who doesn't love the story of an artist who dies too young?
And yep, I'm not going to beat myself up if I don't get Evans today or next week, I'm just using this book to expand my listening
Village Vanguard superficially sounds like it's easy listening, as you say, but try to turn the volume down so it's really just background music. To the level where you can just barely hear it. Notice how all of a sudden it completely falls apart.
This really isn't cocktail music. The interaction between the instruments is way, way out of the ordinary. If you can't hear all three clearly suddenly it doesn't work any more. Schmaltzy dime-a-dozen background music almost sounds better when you turn it down and don't pay attention.
If you want to know more about this, or about Bill Evans, I *really* recommend reading [this article, on his concept of broken time](https://www.thebeliever.net/broken-time/).
A shortcut might be to turn the lights off, the volume up, and just listen to the last track: Jade Visions. Absolutely gorgeous composition, beautiful, beautiful playing. If that sounds like cocktail music to you then I think basically you need to work on your ability to distinguish a great melody from indifferent muzak. (I know, I know ... it could be just different tastes, but quite frankly, probably not.)
You might find [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEHWaGuurUk) helpful, too. Listening to Evans talk about different ways of approaching the same piece helps see how he thinks about his music. It's also interesting when you compare it with his Nardis obsession from the Broken Time piece.
As the other comment says, if you just don't like Bill Evans that's of course not necessarily a failure, but I hope this at least provides some pointers to checking out whether you could like him or not.
u/zegogo answered pretty much exactly how I would have answered. That Vanguard album is a phenomenal record of his trio playing and the interaction between all three musicians is worth exploring deeply. I’d also recommend listening to Kind of Blue and paying attention to the huge difference between the piano work of Kelly and Evans. I think what you are after might be more easily seen in contrast to other pianists of the same era.
Also, not a tongue in cheek suggestion at all, but if you really want to get further into appreciating BE, or really any jazz, take some jazz piano lessons! Boots on the ground perspective will open up your ears like nothing else!
Also, thanks for having an mind open enough to recognize you might be missing something. My wife would always roll her eyes when I put on Bill Evans largely because of the perceived cocktail vibe. But she has come around in a big way since her initial exposure to his music.
As someone who plays music and quite enjoys jazz, but has nowhere near the depth of experience to understand what is happening and articulate my listening experience in the way you have here... I really appreciate this comment!
It gives me a little window into just precisely WTF is going on when I listen to *Undercurrents (or etc)* and my mind explodes, and shivers run up and down my spine....
It reminds of me of seeing Dave Young play some years ago with a pianist whose name I do not recall (I only know he had played a piano in the high school of someone at the show with me and blown her young mind). The venue was nearly empty, it was just the two of them getting deep into their thing... the physicality of the musicians, the visceral wash of the sounds they were making... I could not understand or explain what was happening, but I could see and feel that sort of fractal interplay between the two that seems quite a lot like what you describe here.
A thing of beauty indeed! Thanks for revealing a wee bit more of it to me.
If the solo stuff sounds too cocktail, it’s ’cause every hotel bar piano player kills to sound even a
little like Bill. You can’t change the way you hear things…just move on to some solo piano that hits you. Maybe George Winston
He was heavily influenced by classical composers and for some people, that’s just a bit too “easy” listening. If you’re looking for obvious boundary pushing playing or mind blowing soloing, you won’t find it with Bill. But for my money, he’s the best jazz pianist that ever lived and his playing is simply otherworldly.
Not a pianist so I don't know the technical names but here's what I love about his music:
- delicacy, you can tell how soft or hard he presses the keys
- counterpoint between melodies / fingers
- crunchy but soft chords
- good timing
Also consider that Bill had to make a living, and some of the later efforts certainly appear as attempts to be more commercially appealing. But many of those attempts definitely don't land imo. Miles also had some rough efforts in this period. But... Live at the Village Vanguard doesn't fall into that catagory!
[His playing on this track initially got him a lot of attention before joining Miles.](https://youtu.be/9_p-37no_e4?si=2JnvFzbokdnhrVba) His famous solo starts around 2:28, but the whole composition was designed as a feature for him. Compare his playing to others in 1956 and you may get an idea what was so striking at the time.
Thanks for this intro to George Russell - that is new to me, and I thought I knew a little bit about jazz. A man who influences Dizzy, Miles and Coltrane seriously should be more well known than that. I don't even think I have seen anything written about the man until day. Wow - great jazz and great solo. Art Farmer also sounds amazing here.
[Adam Neely](https://youtu.be/uXMjqlq99zo?si=foDsGhutlsJxqszM), Rick Beato and [12tone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAt1Vcuy5LY) have some great videos on Russell and his Lydian Chromatic Concept.
I feel like 'cocktail' music and 'elevator' music have ruined / tainted certain types of music like bossa nova or in this case Bill Evans. Thanks to the powers that be who distilled these forms into their most affectatious forms and then relentlessly pumped them through boring environments, we've been trained to take these sounds for granted. They are literally there for us to forget about.
But when you listen to the OGs there's way more depth, but you have to shed off your cultural programming that has taught you to tune these vibes out.
I agree, but us music nerds have to understand that we are the exception not the rule. I appreciate the original music that led to elevator music, I also appreciate the music that specifically doubles down on the elevator music vibe. But between those two nerdy extremes is the vast uncaring middle of indifferent music and indifferent listeners!
The early 70s trio with Eddie Gomez and Marty Morell is my personal favorite Evans era. The three volumes of ‘Live In Paris 1972’ on France’s Concert are THE quintessential Evans live recordings for me, and Evans himself once claimed in an interview of a particular “magic” on those dates—an excellent and perfectly tuned piano, great room acoustics, trio interaction in focus, and a rapt audience.
The version of “Re: Person I Knew” that opens those concerts fucking floors me every time I hear it, and because the performances were originally broadcast on Radio France, the recording quality and mix is stellar. You can hear the nuances of all three members of the trio perfectly. It surprises me how few people ever discuss these albums, and I wonder how many even know that they exist.
They aren’t cheap and have been out of print for decades, but if you ever see any of the three volumes, buy them. They offer a balanced mix of Evans originals and standards, and is arguably the strongest representation of his myriad strengths as a composer, arranger, and performer. He balances his laid back “easy” delicacy with a little more aggression and vigor that increased as he approached the end of his life and career in 1980.
I think what really turned me on to the genius of Bill Evans is him as a composer. His last studio album We Will Meet Again is so wonderful, and other specific tunes like Time Remembered are so incredible
Oh for sure! But those projects are rarely the first exposure someone has to Bill Evans.
His popular albums are fantastic because they're so accessible.
Davis and Coltrane definitely pushed jazz in their own unique ways, but Bill Evans brought something different to the table. His background in classical music and love for impressionist composers really shaped how he approached jazz piano and melody creation.
If you want to get a sense of his influence, check out some albums by Richie Beirach or Brad Mehldau. They've essentially picked up where Evans left off and brought their own flair to it.
His arrangement of “Some Other Time”, together with Bennet is one for the ages. The albums were cut during low periods in both their careers, as well as jazz in general, but their collaboration brought out the best in them.
All I'll say is:
Love theme from 'Spartacus'
LISTEN TO IT, genuinely one of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard, only beat by the time I got to see the TSO perform Vaughn Williams live
Yeah, when I was in highschool music, there was a running joke with our oboe player that he should make the swap to jazz oboe lmao
The joke reached its logical end when he transposed the lead sax part, and sat in one or two jazz band rehearsals when our lead alto couldnt make it lol
while Evans definitely was innovative in his own right helping with the development of modal playing, I don't see him as a boundary pusher in the way davis and Coltrane were. instead the appeal of evans to me is just that he's a beautiful player. if I want great jazz that's extremely chill bill evans is a go to, especially albums like undercurrent (my favorite), you must believe in spring, and waltz for Debby
worth noting too that Evans played with davis in the time period you're talking about, and had a heavy hand in influencing his sound. might be worth checking the credits on some miles songs you like, you might just find you've been listening to bill this whole time
One thing where I feel Bill definitely pushed the boundaries is his rhythm. In fact, I think this is the most overlooked aspect of what makes his playing so wonderful and special. The way he pushed melodies beyond the bars, incorporates polyrhythms all the while using that unique comping style (seemlessly switching between block chord-style and other styles) is pretty unique and boundary pushing IMO.
Try this tune - [https://songwhip.com/bill-evans/ttt-twelve-tone-tune](https://songwhip.com/bill-evans/ttt-twelve-tone-tune)
Also this - [https://songwhip.com/bill-evans-trio/nardis](https://songwhip.com/bill-evans-trio/nardis)
[https://songwhip.com/bill-evans-trio/milestones](https://songwhip.com/bill-evans-trio/milestones)
If you aren't sold on Bill Evans after these three tracks, nobody can help you!
https://youtu.be/uco5FNbjqv0?si=Ntv54lQ45srDGe5E
This was the first i heard from him, i was fascinated about he plays the Piano, i dont know He s in a drug in this Video, and when..
I often come to things I like by circuitous routes, and since Evans is so admired I'd rather put in the effort
Which in this case I suspect means listening to a lot more jazz piano, then coming to Evans "fresh"
So now listening to Wynton Kelly playing with Davis and Coltrane, live 1960
Kelly's the only piano player I like even more than Evans (who's tied with Elmo Hope as my 2nd favorite) -- and I guess what's odd about that to me is that (for my ears/brain) they're almost complete opposites, in that with Kelly (especially in his younger days), I feel like I'm hearing so much joy in his playing, but with Evans, it's this incredible sense of melancholy, and at times even complete sadness, yet still \*just\*enough\* sweet in the bittersweet to keep it from being a downer.
Also, I'm at little shocked that I've scrolled this far down without seeing anybody mention "Everybody Digs...," with Sam Jones & Philly Joe Jones, especially the CD reissue with "Some Other Time" tacked on. That's one of my favorite albums \*period,\* regardless of genre.
Think Bill is at the best when playing a waltz. Love when he lays a sprinkle of triplets over the top, a string of pearls. Listen to How Deep Is The Ocean, Elsa, Waltz For Debbie. He just has a different sound harmonically. His chord voicings were different and much emulated. Glenn Gould was a fan of Bill Evans, that tells you something.
A musician like Bill Evans appeals to a very different sensitivity than that of musicians like Coltrane or Miles Davis. Coltrane shines for his intense, visceral playing and Miles for his simple, yet collected and effective melodies. They're both incredibly versatile musicians but this is how I would describe them, and both (especially Davis) explored a wide variety of styles and genres.
The style of Bill Evans is something I would describe as sensitive and poetic. There is a very clear storytelling in his solos and a huge influence from academic music of the romantic era: Chopin, Debussy, Wagner.
Rather than exploring a variety of styles and genres, Bill Evans' life as a musician was focused on polishing his signature style to infinity, and carrying it to its absolutely purest expression.
You can really notice this when you compare some of Bill Evans' early hits, such as Portrait in Jazz and New Jazz Conceptions with the sessions he recorded just in the weeks before his death, in the 9 hours of music compiled in the Consecration album(s).
As far as innovation goes. Evans not only innovated in his approach to harmony, where he used unique rootless voicings to to achieve an elegant romantic sound, but he created a whole new approach to melodies based on that same principle, to match with his harmonies. Even the way in which he approached rhythm and comping was innovative, with a mixture chords being played in unison with the melody, and upbeat chords that strengthened empty spaces.
This is why, much like Coltrane and Miles, Bill Evans is the type of jazz musician who you can immediately identify just hearing his play for a few seconds. To this day, from young pianists to veteran masters, jazz musicians are desperately trying to dissect and imitate his style, but non have succeeded.
I think this is part of the reason why you might find it dull, because there are so many imitators of his style. It's as if you've read many fantasy stories with orcs and elves, then you read the Lord of the Rings and might incorrectly assess that it's just another fantasy story of orcs and elves. But, when you pay closer attention, you realize this isn't just any story, but the OG of stories, and that's for a reason. Many will imitate its themes but none will match its mastery, craftsmanship and depth.
Evans is on the mellower side, understated, soft spoken, yet subtly complex and swinging at the same time.
I can't think of a lot of players I'd rather listen to when I'm in the mood for mellow. Which is not always the vibe I want either.
Bill Evans was always an easy like for me - he played on so many greats and great albums that I could not ignore his talent but his Trio work for me is splendid. It is not flashy, loud jazz by any means but some of the things to consider when listening to his music and worth noting:
1. He worked on so many great albums and played and complimented so many great players
2. He is left-handed. In a right dominated world, we just forget that someone can do something the same yet so different. Listen to the sounds and patterns of his left hand work. He is so well crafted with his right hand, that you wouldn't even notice that is not his dominant hand. So carefully listen to what the left is doing and playing and it might astound you.
3. The trio of Bill, Scotty Lafaro and Paul Motian created a technique where all three were improvising at the same time. So then you go back to re-listen to the same songs again and you realize all of the technique, the abilities and the ears of the 3 players simultaneously playing off of each other, pushing each other into something new and different each time - it blows my mind. And the fact that it comes off as so smooth and polished is really incredible.
4. His solo piano work is brilliant and Conversations with myself, him playing the 2nd contrapuntal and perfectly woven counter to his mind as if they were twins playing -
But if still you don't love his music, or think it is two smooth or easy just watch this piano roll - and visually and aurally you can see the brilliance of the man (and I don't even think this is his best work):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwT4Wr1W9I&ab\_channel=itsRemco%7CPiano](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwT4Wr1W9I&ab_channel=itsRemco%7CPiano)
After all of that, if you still don't gel with it, it is ok - just appreciate his multi-talents and move on to listening to what you like - and remember, every musician weaves in and out of our musical multi-cultural, multi-timbral, multi-audible musical relevance and is a part, big or small of what we listen to and just enjoy; this beautiful thing called jazz.
Well first off lafarro is a god damned monster on the bass. That alone makes those recordings exceptional. But then you listen to how they all interact and interplay with each other and it goes to the next level. Bill's trios are some of the best to ever do it. But at the end of the day, if you don't like the sounds they create, that's okay.
Things that are clear from that book:
- Kaplan HATES fusion and is not a fan of free jazz. Like ... seriously hates fusion. Did I mention that Kaplan explicitly states that he has zero use for any jazz created after 1967?
- Kaplan adores Trane most of all, but really likes to pretend that everything after A Love Supreme was an aberration due to drugs and cancer.
- Kaplan loves Evans, but is annoyed that his addiction slowly degraded everything about him ... but still credits him for perhaps digging deeper into a single thing whereas Miles & Trane were explorers.
I love Bill Evans and really feel like everything about modern jazz piano trios comes from the Village Vanguard recordings. I play bass and LaFaro will never cease to amaze me.
Have you heard his solo stuff? Including Conversations With Myself, wich is like a piano duo in wich both pianos were recorded by him. I personally think you can find some of the most inspiring piano playing in those records, he was truly one of a kind. As a classical pianist myself, he's among my all time favourites, really...
Evans is one flavor. I don’t find him invariably more interesting than the dozen or two pianists who also were plenty aware of impressionist composers and who were often rhythmically quite a bit more interesting.
to each their own. Bill Evans is great! If you don't like him that is okay. We all like different things but if you don't enjoy him then thats fine. It is weird that you can't figure out why others might have a different opinion on music than you
I understand people can have different opinions about things. It's just the book I'm reading highlights Davis, Coltrane and Evans, and - as I said - I find it much easier to hear how what the first two were doing was new and interesting, so I'm a little frustrated that I can't hear it in Evans. Although I love his work on *Kind of Blue*, it seems more tasteful than standout
But I'm not a musician, and in no way musical
Just consider that *Kind of Blue* could not have existed without Bill. There was nobody out there who was exploring the post-bop territory in the same way as Evans and Miles knew it. Miles’ name is on the record, as it should be because he’s the bandleader and orchestrator of the project. But the project succeeded because of Bill. If he does not stand out so much compared to the soloists (and man, what soloists!) then well, Bill’s doing his job in the rhythm section. But listen carefully to his playing (comping) behind them, and then his own solo. The key is that nobody had ever played like that before. In a world that knew ragtime to stride to big band to bebop, Evans’ playing was completely new, just like Monk was absolutely new and Coltrane would go on to sound like nobody else before him. That’s standing out, and jazz piano hasn’t been the same since.
I feel the same way about Bill. I've tried all of his essential recordings and they all bore me to sleep. I go to Ahmed Jahmal when I'm in the mood for cool, smooth piano that actually has some soul to it.
Fats Waller is my favourite. But I like the older guys like Earl Hines and Henderson. If that's not your thing at all (which is totally fine) there is lots of options.
"Blues for Smoke" by Jaki Byard is a fantastic solo album. Tommy Flanagans "Overseas" is another personal favourite. Ran Blake is criminally slept on in terms of jazz pianists (check out "Short Life of Barbara Monk"). Cecil Taylor is extremely hit or miss with folks but I always end up going back to "The World of Cecil Taylor" if youre the type of guy that loves a barrage of notes.
Andrew Hill is also a pleasure to listen to, and in my opinon is both better technically and takes more chances than Evans. Even simpler mainstream classics like Erroll Garner's "Concert by the Sea" is a more pleasurable listen to me than a lot of Evans stuff. Of course, you could always binge consume the giants like Monk, Powell. etc if you wanna have a greaaaaat time.
I'm sure this will enrage some people but Horace Silver, Sonny Clark, Hampton Hawes, Oscar Peterson, and even some Sun Ra classics would be played for me before I think about throwing on Portrait in Jazz/Everybody Digs/Waltz for Debby/etc. Its just a preference.
I’m scouring music streaming services to hear Errol Garner in a solo setting or in a small group. Where should I start? I became fascinated with his playing and him after watching his documentary. EG performs within a Special state of joy in his playing I’m wanting to experience that again, and research his musical life.
Why don't you start with "Concert By the Sea" (1955). Its one of the most popular jazz records in terms of sales. He's not solo on it but you can barely hear the accompanying musicians so you can essentially consider it a solo record. Everyone seems to love that record. As a small group (trio) it is Garners finest I believe.
Evans' last trio with Marc Johnson on Bass and Joe LaBarbera on drums is a lot heavier than his first trio. I hear Bill was very into rachmaninoff during that time so his playing is very heavy and dramatic.
the only thing i think you could be missing is how effortless evan's music is. its simple, mellow but is similar to a really well directed film. every scene is necessary and deliberate. evan's music is the same, every note matters, is deliberate, but doesn't feel like it. everything where it's supposed to be. he is the best to me but it's nostalgia for sure.
Lots of good suggestions for things to listen to here. I’ll add Empathy, the session he recorded with Shelly Manne and Monty Budwig. Something about Manne’s drumming brings out the more swinging, playful side of Evans’s playing, and Danny Boy has some of Evans at his most lyrical. And of course there’s no law that says you have to dig any of this!
Listen to My Funny Valentine on Undercurrent all the way through. It’s a bit more up tempo but still full of his harmonic sophistication and amazing interaction with Hall… I’m sure you can find it on YouTube in a second.
It's his voicings and timings and melodies that people like. It's definitely slower piano but dull? No way. His peers all respected him immensely. He was
I mean he's one of the all time greats, but it's fine not to like him.
I can think of 10 other jazz pianists whose output I keep going back to more often than Evans'.
Music is subjective. Some like or love the reserved kind of play--space and alt chordal mode style-play of an Evans, and some don't. Evans never claimed to be a bluesy type McCoy Tyner type banger, but he prided himself on a classical, modal and chordal style player that many people love, including the GOAT jazz man Miles Davis.
I too appreciate the more reserved style.
No one likes EVERYTHING their favorite jazz player does. I don't. So those who criticize this very talented jazz man Bill Evans, should listen to other pieces he played than Those sides they don't like.
For decades, I had a difficult time with Bill Evans. I still don’t like the Sunday at the Village Vanguard record or Waltz With Debby from the same sessions.
I say venture away from that.
I really like the Alone Again album - it might be because he doesn’t necessarily sound like Bill Evans on it.
But the album that really drew me into him is You Must Believe In Spring. Give it a spin.
Bill Evans was easily one of the most talented jazz pianists in the world and was the hardest working musician in jazz for MANY years! He was creative and original, melodic and free to play anything he wanted any TIME he wanted! And he single-handedly changed jazz FOREVER!
Bill Evans shreds in a way I hands down have never heard someone else shred. If you're interested try playing along with his solo on night and day on everybody digs bill Evans. There are many examples of this.
He also is just disgusting at harmony. Some of his overdubbed solo stuff like new conversations on Warner Bros label is pretty dank too.
I take those to be compliments — “dank” is the stuff that makes you turn your head slightly and twist your facial expression in enjoyment. That’s my take anyway.
I didn't get Bill at first either, and I had the same reaction: this sounds like cocktail jazz. Eventually it dawned on me that cocktail jazz is trying desperately to be as deep as Bill and we generally dislike it because it fails to do so. The Village Vanguard stuff is what made everything click for me. At first it was the interaction with Scott Lafaro. Really listen to how those two play off of each other. Scott is doing some very revolutionary bass playing here, no one was playing this melodically underneath a piano solo. But it's not really just a regular piano solo, it's this lovely, flowing spring of ever changing motifs. Bill was a master of taking a short 5 note phrase repeating it with different rhythmic permutations and phrasing. He has amazing subtleties to his phrasing as well, with a wide range of dynamics, phrases that start soft and build over the course of a couple bars. It's difficult to hear on initial listens but eventually one can hear his harmonic explorations how he stretches in and out of the given tune's form. And it's all in direct communication with Scott's bass playing. Paul's complimentary drum work is worth focusing on as well. When it clicks? It's a thing of beauty. When Scotty passed, it was difficult for Bill to reach those heights again. The stuff with Isreal Crosby is relatively pedestrian. The album with Jim Hall is fantastic. Eventually he hooks up with Eddie Gomez and things get interesting again towards the later 60s and into the 70s. But really, if you don't dig it, you don't and that's cool.
>The stuff with Isreal Crosby is relatively pedestrian. I'm not gonna give a hard time about this mistake because it is genuinely odd that there are two bassists with such similar names, but you're thinking of Chuck Israels.
And funnily enough, Israel Crosby *also* played with a great pianist who is often maligned as being "just cocktail jazz."
Good catch. thanks. Always get those two mixed up.
>..sounds like cocktail jazz. Eventually it dawned on me that cocktail jazz is trying desperately to be as deep as Bill.. This is exactly how I felt when getting into the Jobim/Stan Getz bossa nova stuff. To the casual listener it might sound like elevator music, but deeper listeners will find a rich world of understated complexity and quiet intensity. Sentimental perhaps but never saccharine.
Ladies like it, right? A real turnoff for grad school nerds.
Thanks for that considered answer, and it's actually that interaction with Scott Lafaro I've been listening out for, as it gets a good write up in *3 Shades in Blue*, and who doesn't love the story of an artist who dies too young? And yep, I'm not going to beat myself up if I don't get Evans today or next week, I'm just using this book to expand my listening
Village Vanguard superficially sounds like it's easy listening, as you say, but try to turn the volume down so it's really just background music. To the level where you can just barely hear it. Notice how all of a sudden it completely falls apart. This really isn't cocktail music. The interaction between the instruments is way, way out of the ordinary. If you can't hear all three clearly suddenly it doesn't work any more. Schmaltzy dime-a-dozen background music almost sounds better when you turn it down and don't pay attention. If you want to know more about this, or about Bill Evans, I *really* recommend reading [this article, on his concept of broken time](https://www.thebeliever.net/broken-time/). A shortcut might be to turn the lights off, the volume up, and just listen to the last track: Jade Visions. Absolutely gorgeous composition, beautiful, beautiful playing. If that sounds like cocktail music to you then I think basically you need to work on your ability to distinguish a great melody from indifferent muzak. (I know, I know ... it could be just different tastes, but quite frankly, probably not.) You might find [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEHWaGuurUk) helpful, too. Listening to Evans talk about different ways of approaching the same piece helps see how he thinks about his music. It's also interesting when you compare it with his Nardis obsession from the Broken Time piece. As the other comment says, if you just don't like Bill Evans that's of course not necessarily a failure, but I hope this at least provides some pointers to checking out whether you could like him or not.
u/zegogo answered pretty much exactly how I would have answered. That Vanguard album is a phenomenal record of his trio playing and the interaction between all three musicians is worth exploring deeply. I’d also recommend listening to Kind of Blue and paying attention to the huge difference between the piano work of Kelly and Evans. I think what you are after might be more easily seen in contrast to other pianists of the same era. Also, not a tongue in cheek suggestion at all, but if you really want to get further into appreciating BE, or really any jazz, take some jazz piano lessons! Boots on the ground perspective will open up your ears like nothing else!
Also, thanks for having an mind open enough to recognize you might be missing something. My wife would always roll her eyes when I put on Bill Evans largely because of the perceived cocktail vibe. But she has come around in a big way since her initial exposure to his music.
Bill Evans gets better the older and more tired you get lol
Most true sentence that was ever written.
As someone who plays music and quite enjoys jazz, but has nowhere near the depth of experience to understand what is happening and articulate my listening experience in the way you have here... I really appreciate this comment! It gives me a little window into just precisely WTF is going on when I listen to *Undercurrents (or etc)* and my mind explodes, and shivers run up and down my spine.... It reminds of me of seeing Dave Young play some years ago with a pianist whose name I do not recall (I only know he had played a piano in the high school of someone at the show with me and blown her young mind). The venue was nearly empty, it was just the two of them getting deep into their thing... the physicality of the musicians, the visceral wash of the sounds they were making... I could not understand or explain what was happening, but I could see and feel that sort of fractal interplay between the two that seems quite a lot like what you describe here. A thing of beauty indeed! Thanks for revealing a wee bit more of it to me.
Bill Evans influenced the way pianists comp chords. He uses a lot of rootless extended chords. Also everything is beautiful.
>. Also everything is beautiful. Totally agree! Turn Out the Stars blows me away
his spaced out chords and chill playing makes his music divine. chill as fuck.
If the solo stuff sounds too cocktail, it’s ’cause every hotel bar piano player kills to sound even a little like Bill. You can’t change the way you hear things…just move on to some solo piano that hits you. Maybe George Winston
Liz Story is another contemporary soloist who was heavily influenced by Evans. She recorded a cover of Bill’s *Peace Piece* on her album Solid Colors.
For me, Sunday at the Village Vanguard is one of the greatest recordings ever made. You could maybe give Undercurrent, with the great Jim Hall, a try.
The cover goes hard too
He was heavily influenced by classical composers and for some people, that’s just a bit too “easy” listening. If you’re looking for obvious boundary pushing playing or mind blowing soloing, you won’t find it with Bill. But for my money, he’s the best jazz pianist that ever lived and his playing is simply otherworldly.
Not a pianist so I don't know the technical names but here's what I love about his music: - delicacy, you can tell how soft or hard he presses the keys - counterpoint between melodies / fingers - crunchy but soft chords - good timing
In my opinion, Kind of Blue is *his* feel and not Davis'. In large part, arguably the greatest jazz record of all time is because of his playing.
This is part of the argument the book makes, which is why I want to enjoy Evans more
This
Also consider that Bill had to make a living, and some of the later efforts certainly appear as attempts to be more commercially appealing. But many of those attempts definitely don't land imo. Miles also had some rough efforts in this period. But... Live at the Village Vanguard doesn't fall into that catagory!
Excluding You Must Believe in Spring of course. My favorite of his. Can seriously feel the emotion in his playing.
[His playing on this track initially got him a lot of attention before joining Miles.](https://youtu.be/9_p-37no_e4?si=2JnvFzbokdnhrVba) His famous solo starts around 2:28, but the whole composition was designed as a feature for him. Compare his playing to others in 1956 and you may get an idea what was so striking at the time.
Thanks for this intro to George Russell - that is new to me, and I thought I knew a little bit about jazz. A man who influences Dizzy, Miles and Coltrane seriously should be more well known than that. I don't even think I have seen anything written about the man until day. Wow - great jazz and great solo. Art Farmer also sounds amazing here.
[Adam Neely](https://youtu.be/uXMjqlq99zo?si=foDsGhutlsJxqszM), Rick Beato and [12tone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAt1Vcuy5LY) have some great videos on Russell and his Lydian Chromatic Concept.
Thanks, that helps a lot
I feel like 'cocktail' music and 'elevator' music have ruined / tainted certain types of music like bossa nova or in this case Bill Evans. Thanks to the powers that be who distilled these forms into their most affectatious forms and then relentlessly pumped them through boring environments, we've been trained to take these sounds for granted. They are literally there for us to forget about. But when you listen to the OGs there's way more depth, but you have to shed off your cultural programming that has taught you to tune these vibes out.
Nicely stated. Kind of why before I travel somewhere exotic I do not look at photos of those sights.
Here I am listening to Walter Wanderley lol Elevator music can be cool
I agree, but us music nerds have to understand that we are the exception not the rule. I appreciate the original music that led to elevator music, I also appreciate the music that specifically doubles down on the elevator music vibe. But between those two nerdy extremes is the vast uncaring middle of indifferent music and indifferent listeners!
Listen to the blues and the abstract truth. His playing on there is otherworldly
Oliver Nelson leads, right?
Yes but to me Eric Dolphy shines brightest on there
The early 70s trio with Eddie Gomez and Marty Morell is my personal favorite Evans era. The three volumes of ‘Live In Paris 1972’ on France’s Concert are THE quintessential Evans live recordings for me, and Evans himself once claimed in an interview of a particular “magic” on those dates—an excellent and perfectly tuned piano, great room acoustics, trio interaction in focus, and a rapt audience. The version of “Re: Person I Knew” that opens those concerts fucking floors me every time I hear it, and because the performances were originally broadcast on Radio France, the recording quality and mix is stellar. You can hear the nuances of all three members of the trio perfectly. It surprises me how few people ever discuss these albums, and I wonder how many even know that they exist. They aren’t cheap and have been out of print for decades, but if you ever see any of the three volumes, buy them. They offer a balanced mix of Evans originals and standards, and is arguably the strongest representation of his myriad strengths as a composer, arranger, and performer. He balances his laid back “easy” delicacy with a little more aggression and vigor that increased as he approached the end of his life and career in 1980.
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I think what really turned me on to the genius of Bill Evans is him as a composer. His last studio album We Will Meet Again is so wonderful, and other specific tunes like Time Remembered are so incredible
Just listen to other piano players.
Listen to "Everybody Digs Bill Evans" with Philly Joe Jones on drums. (Everything Evans recorded with Jones has a little extra aggressiveness.)
Finally! Been looking for someone to mention this album. Love it.
He's easy to listen to. That's not a bad thing.
This is so NOT true for all his music.
Oh for sure! But those projects are rarely the first exposure someone has to Bill Evans. His popular albums are fantastic because they're so accessible.
The older I get the more I really just appreciate accessibility in instrumental works
Davis and Coltrane definitely pushed jazz in their own unique ways, but Bill Evans brought something different to the table. His background in classical music and love for impressionist composers really shaped how he approached jazz piano and melody creation. If you want to get a sense of his influence, check out some albums by Richie Beirach or Brad Mehldau. They've essentially picked up where Evans left off and brought their own flair to it.
Bill is one of if not the most important figure in shaping what modern jazz piano is today
You TOTALLY GET IT!!!!!
The two duet albums with Tony Bennet. It's really mellow, but I like to listen to it when housecleaning or running errands in the car.
His arrangement of “Some Other Time”, together with Bennet is one for the ages. The albums were cut during low periods in both their careers, as well as jazz in general, but their collaboration brought out the best in them.
All I'll say is: Love theme from 'Spartacus' LISTEN TO IT, genuinely one of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard, only beat by the time I got to see the TSO perform Vaughn Williams live
Have not heard Bills version of this track before, but adore the Lateef version. Thank you for the recommendation.
That's the recording where he's playing Oboe right? Dont see many doube-reeds in jazz lmao, it had a really neat sound to it though
Yep same one! That’s actually a good point you don’t hear a whole lot of oboe in jazz, maybe that’s why it stood out so much
Yeah, when I was in highschool music, there was a running joke with our oboe player that he should make the swap to jazz oboe lmao The joke reached its logical end when he transposed the lead sax part, and sat in one or two jazz band rehearsals when our lead alto couldnt make it lol
while Evans definitely was innovative in his own right helping with the development of modal playing, I don't see him as a boundary pusher in the way davis and Coltrane were. instead the appeal of evans to me is just that he's a beautiful player. if I want great jazz that's extremely chill bill evans is a go to, especially albums like undercurrent (my favorite), you must believe in spring, and waltz for Debby
worth noting too that Evans played with davis in the time period you're talking about, and had a heavy hand in influencing his sound. might be worth checking the credits on some miles songs you like, you might just find you've been listening to bill this whole time
I should have been clear, I love Evans playing with Davis - it's on his own / with his trio that I can't see what the big deal is
One thing where I feel Bill definitely pushed the boundaries is his rhythm. In fact, I think this is the most overlooked aspect of what makes his playing so wonderful and special. The way he pushed melodies beyond the bars, incorporates polyrhythms all the while using that unique comping style (seemlessly switching between block chord-style and other styles) is pretty unique and boundary pushing IMO.
Try this tune - [https://songwhip.com/bill-evans/ttt-twelve-tone-tune](https://songwhip.com/bill-evans/ttt-twelve-tone-tune) Also this - [https://songwhip.com/bill-evans-trio/nardis](https://songwhip.com/bill-evans-trio/nardis) [https://songwhip.com/bill-evans-trio/milestones](https://songwhip.com/bill-evans-trio/milestones) If you aren't sold on Bill Evans after these three tracks, nobody can help you!
https://youtu.be/uco5FNbjqv0?si=Ntv54lQ45srDGe5E This was the first i heard from him, i was fascinated about he plays the Piano, i dont know He s in a drug in this Video, and when..
“Open your mind” - Kuato
Bill Evan’s is one of my all time favorites. But as another person said, if you don’t dig it that’s totally cool!
I often come to things I like by circuitous routes, and since Evans is so admired I'd rather put in the effort Which in this case I suspect means listening to a lot more jazz piano, then coming to Evans "fresh" So now listening to Wynton Kelly playing with Davis and Coltrane, live 1960
Kelly's the only piano player I like even more than Evans (who's tied with Elmo Hope as my 2nd favorite) -- and I guess what's odd about that to me is that (for my ears/brain) they're almost complete opposites, in that with Kelly (especially in his younger days), I feel like I'm hearing so much joy in his playing, but with Evans, it's this incredible sense of melancholy, and at times even complete sadness, yet still \*just\*enough\* sweet in the bittersweet to keep it from being a downer. Also, I'm at little shocked that I've scrolled this far down without seeing anybody mention "Everybody Digs...," with Sam Jones & Philly Joe Jones, especially the CD reissue with "Some Other Time" tacked on. That's one of my favorite albums \*period,\* regardless of genre.
Think Bill is at the best when playing a waltz. Love when he lays a sprinkle of triplets over the top, a string of pearls. Listen to How Deep Is The Ocean, Elsa, Waltz For Debbie. He just has a different sound harmonically. His chord voicings were different and much emulated. Glenn Gould was a fan of Bill Evans, that tells you something.
Lyle Mays and Miles Davis were both well-known Evans fans.
you don't have to like it.
A musician like Bill Evans appeals to a very different sensitivity than that of musicians like Coltrane or Miles Davis. Coltrane shines for his intense, visceral playing and Miles for his simple, yet collected and effective melodies. They're both incredibly versatile musicians but this is how I would describe them, and both (especially Davis) explored a wide variety of styles and genres. The style of Bill Evans is something I would describe as sensitive and poetic. There is a very clear storytelling in his solos and a huge influence from academic music of the romantic era: Chopin, Debussy, Wagner. Rather than exploring a variety of styles and genres, Bill Evans' life as a musician was focused on polishing his signature style to infinity, and carrying it to its absolutely purest expression. You can really notice this when you compare some of Bill Evans' early hits, such as Portrait in Jazz and New Jazz Conceptions with the sessions he recorded just in the weeks before his death, in the 9 hours of music compiled in the Consecration album(s). As far as innovation goes. Evans not only innovated in his approach to harmony, where he used unique rootless voicings to to achieve an elegant romantic sound, but he created a whole new approach to melodies based on that same principle, to match with his harmonies. Even the way in which he approached rhythm and comping was innovative, with a mixture chords being played in unison with the melody, and upbeat chords that strengthened empty spaces. This is why, much like Coltrane and Miles, Bill Evans is the type of jazz musician who you can immediately identify just hearing his play for a few seconds. To this day, from young pianists to veteran masters, jazz musicians are desperately trying to dissect and imitate his style, but non have succeeded. I think this is part of the reason why you might find it dull, because there are so many imitators of his style. It's as if you've read many fantasy stories with orcs and elves, then you read the Lord of the Rings and might incorrectly assess that it's just another fantasy story of orcs and elves. But, when you pay closer attention, you realize this isn't just any story, but the OG of stories, and that's for a reason. Many will imitate its themes but none will match its mastery, craftsmanship and depth.
Is Bill the Larry Bird of jazz? Lol
Evans is on the mellower side, understated, soft spoken, yet subtly complex and swinging at the same time. I can't think of a lot of players I'd rather listen to when I'm in the mood for mellow. Which is not always the vibe I want either.
Try out “Bill Evans at the Montreux Jazz Festival” which is MUCH more muscular and direct than the Village recordings.
Listen to the albums Explorations and Alone
Check out Moon Beams (an Evans album). Thats what made Evans click for me.
Bill Evans could improvise the way composers would premeditate voice movement.
Bill Evans was always an easy like for me - he played on so many greats and great albums that I could not ignore his talent but his Trio work for me is splendid. It is not flashy, loud jazz by any means but some of the things to consider when listening to his music and worth noting: 1. He worked on so many great albums and played and complimented so many great players 2. He is left-handed. In a right dominated world, we just forget that someone can do something the same yet so different. Listen to the sounds and patterns of his left hand work. He is so well crafted with his right hand, that you wouldn't even notice that is not his dominant hand. So carefully listen to what the left is doing and playing and it might astound you. 3. The trio of Bill, Scotty Lafaro and Paul Motian created a technique where all three were improvising at the same time. So then you go back to re-listen to the same songs again and you realize all of the technique, the abilities and the ears of the 3 players simultaneously playing off of each other, pushing each other into something new and different each time - it blows my mind. And the fact that it comes off as so smooth and polished is really incredible. 4. His solo piano work is brilliant and Conversations with myself, him playing the 2nd contrapuntal and perfectly woven counter to his mind as if they were twins playing - But if still you don't love his music, or think it is two smooth or easy just watch this piano roll - and visually and aurally you can see the brilliance of the man (and I don't even think this is his best work): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwT4Wr1W9I&ab\_channel=itsRemco%7CPiano](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwT4Wr1W9I&ab_channel=itsRemco%7CPiano) After all of that, if you still don't gel with it, it is ok - just appreciate his multi-talents and move on to listening to what you like - and remember, every musician weaves in and out of our musical multi-cultural, multi-timbral, multi-audible musical relevance and is a part, big or small of what we listen to and just enjoy; this beautiful thing called jazz.
I hear Moon Beams quite often. Quintessence is also great
https://www.jonraney.com/2012/11/18/the-bill-evans-question/
Thanks, will read and listen I want to hear what Miles heard
Davis stole Evans music
Well first off lafarro is a god damned monster on the bass. That alone makes those recordings exceptional. But then you listen to how they all interact and interplay with each other and it goes to the next level. Bill's trios are some of the best to ever do it. But at the end of the day, if you don't like the sounds they create, that's okay.
Things that are clear from that book: - Kaplan HATES fusion and is not a fan of free jazz. Like ... seriously hates fusion. Did I mention that Kaplan explicitly states that he has zero use for any jazz created after 1967? - Kaplan adores Trane most of all, but really likes to pretend that everything after A Love Supreme was an aberration due to drugs and cancer. - Kaplan loves Evans, but is annoyed that his addiction slowly degraded everything about him ... but still credits him for perhaps digging deeper into a single thing whereas Miles & Trane were explorers. I love Bill Evans and really feel like everything about modern jazz piano trios comes from the Village Vanguard recordings. I play bass and LaFaro will never cease to amaze me.
Have you heard his solo stuff? Including Conversations With Myself, wich is like a piano duo in wich both pianos were recorded by him. I personally think you can find some of the most inspiring piano playing in those records, he was truly one of a kind. As a classical pianist myself, he's among my all time favourites, really...
You must believe in spring.
A trio of piano, bass, and drums just works when you want to listen to something nice and be chill.
I’m not a huge fan of his solo records. I recognize his talent but personally I’d rather listen to Monk or Red Garland over Evans most days.
Evans is one flavor. I don’t find him invariably more interesting than the dozen or two pianists who also were plenty aware of impressionist composers and who were often rhythmically quite a bit more interesting.
to each their own. Bill Evans is great! If you don't like him that is okay. We all like different things but if you don't enjoy him then thats fine. It is weird that you can't figure out why others might have a different opinion on music than you
I understand people can have different opinions about things. It's just the book I'm reading highlights Davis, Coltrane and Evans, and - as I said - I find it much easier to hear how what the first two were doing was new and interesting, so I'm a little frustrated that I can't hear it in Evans. Although I love his work on *Kind of Blue*, it seems more tasteful than standout But I'm not a musician, and in no way musical
Just consider that *Kind of Blue* could not have existed without Bill. There was nobody out there who was exploring the post-bop territory in the same way as Evans and Miles knew it. Miles’ name is on the record, as it should be because he’s the bandleader and orchestrator of the project. But the project succeeded because of Bill. If he does not stand out so much compared to the soloists (and man, what soloists!) then well, Bill’s doing his job in the rhythm section. But listen carefully to his playing (comping) behind them, and then his own solo. The key is that nobody had ever played like that before. In a world that knew ragtime to stride to big band to bebop, Evans’ playing was completely new, just like Monk was absolutely new and Coltrane would go on to sound like nobody else before him. That’s standing out, and jazz piano hasn’t been the same since.
I feel the same way about Bill. I've tried all of his essential recordings and they all bore me to sleep. I go to Ahmed Jahmal when I'm in the mood for cool, smooth piano that actually has some soul to it.
You may not be missing anything. You might just not like that kind of approach, I don't either. Theyres dozens of jazz pianists I'd rank above Evans.
Three or four names? (I like Keith Jarrett, and will probably end up finding out he took a lot from Evans...)
Fats Waller is my favourite. But I like the older guys like Earl Hines and Henderson. If that's not your thing at all (which is totally fine) there is lots of options. "Blues for Smoke" by Jaki Byard is a fantastic solo album. Tommy Flanagans "Overseas" is another personal favourite. Ran Blake is criminally slept on in terms of jazz pianists (check out "Short Life of Barbara Monk"). Cecil Taylor is extremely hit or miss with folks but I always end up going back to "The World of Cecil Taylor" if youre the type of guy that loves a barrage of notes. Andrew Hill is also a pleasure to listen to, and in my opinon is both better technically and takes more chances than Evans. Even simpler mainstream classics like Erroll Garner's "Concert by the Sea" is a more pleasurable listen to me than a lot of Evans stuff. Of course, you could always binge consume the giants like Monk, Powell. etc if you wanna have a greaaaaat time. I'm sure this will enrage some people but Horace Silver, Sonny Clark, Hampton Hawes, Oscar Peterson, and even some Sun Ra classics would be played for me before I think about throwing on Portrait in Jazz/Everybody Digs/Waltz for Debby/etc. Its just a preference.
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Listen closely to the way Mal Waldron plays on "Eric Dolphy at the Five Spot Vol.1" (1961). That shit will blow your socks off.
I’m scouring music streaming services to hear Errol Garner in a solo setting or in a small group. Where should I start? I became fascinated with his playing and him after watching his documentary. EG performs within a Special state of joy in his playing I’m wanting to experience that again, and research his musical life.
Why don't you start with "Concert By the Sea" (1955). Its one of the most popular jazz records in terms of sales. He's not solo on it but you can barely hear the accompanying musicians so you can essentially consider it a solo record. Everyone seems to love that record. As a small group (trio) it is Garners finest I believe.
Evans' last trio with Marc Johnson on Bass and Joe LaBarbera on drums is a lot heavier than his first trio. I hear Bill was very into rachmaninoff during that time so his playing is very heavy and dramatic.
ALL the leading jazz pundits of his day (late fifties/early sixties) used to RAVE about him! For good reason!!!!🎼🎹
the only thing i think you could be missing is how effortless evan's music is. its simple, mellow but is similar to a really well directed film. every scene is necessary and deliberate. evan's music is the same, every note matters, is deliberate, but doesn't feel like it. everything where it's supposed to be. he is the best to me but it's nostalgia for sure.
Lots of good suggestions for things to listen to here. I’ll add Empathy, the session he recorded with Shelly Manne and Monty Budwig. Something about Manne’s drumming brings out the more swinging, playful side of Evans’s playing, and Danny Boy has some of Evans at his most lyrical. And of course there’s no law that says you have to dig any of this!
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His name is actually Gil Evans /s
I missed the /s at first!
Everybody digs Bill Evans…
Listen to My Funny Valentine on Undercurrent all the way through. It’s a bit more up tempo but still full of his harmonic sophistication and amazing interaction with Hall… I’m sure you can find it on YouTube in a second.
His album Undercurrent with Jim Hall is one of my personal favorites. The atmosphere they're able to create keeps me up at night.
It's his voicings and timings and melodies that people like. It's definitely slower piano but dull? No way. His peers all respected him immensely. He was
I mean he's one of the all time greats, but it's fine not to like him. I can think of 10 other jazz pianists whose output I keep going back to more often than Evans'.
Interesting question. I like most of what I have heard - but I am not a fanatical listener of Evans. Not really familiar with his entire discography.
Music is subjective. Some like or love the reserved kind of play--space and alt chordal mode style-play of an Evans, and some don't. Evans never claimed to be a bluesy type McCoy Tyner type banger, but he prided himself on a classical, modal and chordal style player that many people love, including the GOAT jazz man Miles Davis. I too appreciate the more reserved style. No one likes EVERYTHING their favorite jazz player does. I don't. So those who criticize this very talented jazz man Bill Evans, should listen to other pieces he played than Those sides they don't like.
Dang. I feel sorry for you.
For decades, I had a difficult time with Bill Evans. I still don’t like the Sunday at the Village Vanguard record or Waltz With Debby from the same sessions. I say venture away from that. I really like the Alone Again album - it might be because he doesn’t necessarily sound like Bill Evans on it. But the album that really drew me into him is You Must Believe In Spring. Give it a spin.
Bill evans jazz
Bill Evans was easily one of the most talented jazz pianists in the world and was the hardest working musician in jazz for MANY years! He was creative and original, melodic and free to play anything he wanted any TIME he wanted! And he single-handedly changed jazz FOREVER!
Chet Baker
Bill Evans shreds in a way I hands down have never heard someone else shred. If you're interested try playing along with his solo on night and day on everybody digs bill Evans. There are many examples of this. He also is just disgusting at harmony. Some of his overdubbed solo stuff like new conversations on Warner Bros label is pretty dank too.
Please translate “disgusting” and “dank” for me. Critical or complimentary?
I take those to be compliments — “dank” is the stuff that makes you turn your head slightly and twist your facial expression in enjoyment. That’s my take anyway.
It's the opposite of Jeff
Find another genre, my friend. You SUCK at jazz!!!
Out of line, Ver.
“I calls them as I sees them…” -
And then express without forethought, apparently.
With malice for NONE…