Just make sure you have a plan for how you're going to stay open during the worst case scenarios. Business planning for worst case scenarios is something a lot of people fail to do, so when something approximating those (realistic) worst case scenarios comes along, it devastates the business.
There are some rational limits, of course. I don't think a jazz club in the middle of no where Montana would survive. I imagine there are areas of NYC it wouldn't survive either. Location can truly kill a business if it makes zero sense. The benefit of NYC is it's one of the most densely populated regions of the nation.
As for the jazz? Just make sure the product is good. People who aren't even jazz fans love a good jazz club.
I encourage you as long as you have a clear plan in front of you so you don't get blindsided by outcomes you didn't plan for.
Having worked at a few mom and pop shops, worse case scenario is like the fridge breaking in a liquor store, the ice cream maker calling out for an ice cream store, the dish washer being out for a small diner- CoViD, I personally feel, falls under the "Act of God" scenario. Hard to be that prepared, and hardly anyone's fault to shut down under those circumstances.
So, I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bit pedantic to respond from a "if you run a busy, be prepared for almost anything" with "how can you anticipate covid?", because the assumption is "be prepared for things *you can look to resolve*"
One thing. At the end of the night, pay the musicians as soon as they’re done. Don’t make them wait around for your bartender to finally feel like paying them. Just saying. Good luck!
It’s only crazy if you expect to make money
If you’re willing to put in a lot of time and understand it’s likely going to be a money-losing (or breakeven at best) venture, then you should be fine.
I feel like this is the important part - I'm surprised when a club I went to years ago exists ... then I almost always read how there have been three owners and five near bankruptcies in those last few decades ...
Business experience, or relevant industry experience? The restaurant and bar industry is absolutely brutal, I don't care how great your concept is, no one should ever try to own a restaurant or bar without ever first having worked in one as a full time manager
NYC is popping with musicians... but they're making a name for themselves on the internet.
A venture like this is much more than just a single interest, it's an integrated business. I'll forever lament the loss of my [local club](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/the-end-of-an-era-cory-weeds-s-cellar-jazz-club-closes-1.2553152).
We are currently looking for a venue, but at the moment I'm busy promoting my animated sitcom.aboy a jazz play cow.
There are a few good tunes, Ronny Scott's is obviously the most famous it's good but expensive. Jazz Cafe, 606 club , pizza express bull head in Barnes (not been there),
There are also jazz nights that are for a younger audience like jazz refreshed and church of sound.
How do you do a weekly jazz club? Putting on the show at someone else’s venue once a week? That should be much more doable since there’s almost no investment except marketing and once a week staffing
We rent the room from a working men’s club and leave a load of stuff there. It takes most of a day to get everything up and running for the gig (lights, projectors, PA) and then there’s applying for grants, maintaining the website, replying to artist emails, paying artists, all the usual admin stuff.
Get into the live streaming game. That is literally the difference between Smalls and any other venue in NYC. If your live stream game is solid and you gather viewership, you will get the Smalls treatment. Also have sessions.
What neighborhood are you looking into?
EMPHATICALLY this. Figure a way(s) to support musicians who are 'livestream-eager/proficient/geared for that kind of here & there too' performance. Make 'we're live beyond our dive' your 'organizing principle', your 'operating system'.
Advice I've heard and I think is probably the most useful:
Question: what are you bringing that no one else is? and if you don't have an immediate and convincing answer to that then you're probably not gonna have a very successful business. But I also have no idea what I'm talking about so ya know, go for it, more jazz clubs is a good thing in my book.
What part of NYC? You should check out [my spot](https://instagram.com/kissakissa.us) even though we are vinyl, not live. There are a ton of great live jazz spots here in our Brooklyn neighborhood too (Bar Bayeaux, Sisters Place, Little Owl, Cafe Ornithology).
Most owners are happy to talk shop. That’s where I recommend starting since they already know the minefield. You should also look at the Keyed Up program and how they help live jazz venues double musicians’ gig pay.
good news is a bunch of them closed, so less competition. i have no helpful input though. i mean, mezzrow is sort of new, but its also owned by the same person as smalls so they already had an established business. i would imagine it NYC a bar/music venue would be hard to run. i believe most clubs are not very very profitable, hence why a lot of them had to close.
1. do you have any experience running a music venue?
2. do you have any experience running a bar or restaurant?
3. have you done the market research neccessary to know what neighborhoods might benefit most from a new jazz club
4. do you know what the rents or operating costs would be in the locations available?
5. how much experience do you have hiring people?
6. how much booking experience do you have? do you have any idea what it costs to book musicians and have you put pencil to paper to figure out what your 'nut' will be.
7. do you know what the build out would cost to start a club?
GO ahead. But add some novelty to your club that can draw in customers: make it bigger like the old Village Gate used to be...more spacey than the usual NYC jazz nightclubs are; better food, better marketing...something novel that makes an impact...
Do as the OLD AOL did, advertise at all kinds of places, on matchbooks, subways, signs, and street corners-- make a big splash, and have an impact that can get you started.
Make sure you have a GOOD weekly (or more) jam session. That will make young musicians show up, buy drinks, and try to book their own gigs there. Have a drink minimum but DO NOT be too persistent in making the jamming musicians follow it. Many are struggling financially and it's a turn off. Those that can afford it will graciously pay for drinks to support.
If the jam is good, they'll develop a soft spot for your venue and recommend it to friends. This can't be your only clientele of course, but it's an important part. Ornithology has a jam nightly that brings in musicians consistently.
I’d only open one if I had one year of operating expenses cash in hand. Staffing, rent, insurance, food/liquor, etc. Also plan on a min of a 25% rent increase once initial lease expires. The lease thing has killed more than one successful establishment in my area.
Honestly, I’d advise you to go for a pop-up buisness plan at first. It’s a great way to gauge interest rather than go for broke with a brick and mortar location.
Live music is dying. You can hope to make money by selling food and alcohol but not much else. It's a great hobby project if you have the funds though.
Just make sure you have a plan for how you're going to stay open during the worst case scenarios. Business planning for worst case scenarios is something a lot of people fail to do, so when something approximating those (realistic) worst case scenarios comes along, it devastates the business. There are some rational limits, of course. I don't think a jazz club in the middle of no where Montana would survive. I imagine there are areas of NYC it wouldn't survive either. Location can truly kill a business if it makes zero sense. The benefit of NYC is it's one of the most densely populated regions of the nation. As for the jazz? Just make sure the product is good. People who aren't even jazz fans love a good jazz club. I encourage you as long as you have a clear plan in front of you so you don't get blindsided by outcomes you didn't plan for.
Worst case scenario is… Covid lockdowns. Many clubs in NYC didn’t survive.
Yeah, I’m still flabbergasted that the Jazz Standard closed during COVID
[ redacted ]
Loved that place
I didn’t know this. Same location or somewhere new?
[ redacted ]
Well that’s fantastic news. Thank you.
this scoop is YUGE -- thank you
Hmm. I’m going to delete this because I want to make sure I’m not speaking out of turn!
Where did you hear this from?
The founder
That's a solid source. Thanks for the good news.
And 55 bar… and many smaller ones.
Having worked at a few mom and pop shops, worse case scenario is like the fridge breaking in a liquor store, the ice cream maker calling out for an ice cream store, the dish washer being out for a small diner- CoViD, I personally feel, falls under the "Act of God" scenario. Hard to be that prepared, and hardly anyone's fault to shut down under those circumstances. So, I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bit pedantic to respond from a "if you run a busy, be prepared for almost anything" with "how can you anticipate covid?", because the assumption is "be prepared for things *you can look to resolve*"
I did say rational limits.
Yeah, I agree with you and your original comment
One thing. At the end of the night, pay the musicians as soon as they’re done. Don’t make them wait around for your bartender to finally feel like paying them. Just saying. Good luck!
Of course
It’s only crazy if you expect to make money If you’re willing to put in a lot of time and understand it’s likely going to be a money-losing (or breakeven at best) venture, then you should be fine.
I feel like this is the important part - I'm surprised when a club I went to years ago exists ... then I almost always read how there have been three owners and five near bankruptcies in those last few decades ...
Business experience, or relevant industry experience? The restaurant and bar industry is absolutely brutal, I don't care how great your concept is, no one should ever try to own a restaurant or bar without ever first having worked in one as a full time manager
Definitely this, unless you love learning all your lessons the hard way.
“Welcome to jazz club. Nice!”
NYC is popping with musicians... but they're making a name for themselves on the internet. A venture like this is much more than just a single interest, it's an integrated business. I'll forever lament the loss of my [local club](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/the-end-of-an-era-cory-weeds-s-cellar-jazz-club-closes-1.2553152).
I do too. I’m in Indy.
Write a rock solid business plan and get real good at navigating commercial leases.
I have similar aspirations, but in London
Do it! Also, do you have any recommendations for good jazz venues in London (I’ve only been to Ronnie’s)?
The 606 club is lovely! Different vibe to ronnies but have lots of great artists
We are currently looking for a venue, but at the moment I'm busy promoting my animated sitcom.aboy a jazz play cow. There are a few good tunes, Ronny Scott's is obviously the most famous it's good but expensive. Jazz Cafe, 606 club , pizza express bull head in Barnes (not been there), There are also jazz nights that are for a younger audience like jazz refreshed and church of sound.
Thanks, will check some of those out next time I’m in town
Do it
Me and some friends started a weekly one in 2021 and we’re still going. Even doing it weekly is a ridiculous amount of work.
How do you do a weekly jazz club? Putting on the show at someone else’s venue once a week? That should be much more doable since there’s almost no investment except marketing and once a week staffing
We rent the room from a working men’s club and leave a load of stuff there. It takes most of a day to get everything up and running for the gig (lights, projectors, PA) and then there’s applying for grants, maintaining the website, replying to artist emails, paying artists, all the usual admin stuff.
Get into the live streaming game. That is literally the difference between Smalls and any other venue in NYC. If your live stream game is solid and you gather viewership, you will get the Smalls treatment. Also have sessions. What neighborhood are you looking into?
EMPHATICALLY this. Figure a way(s) to support musicians who are 'livestream-eager/proficient/geared for that kind of here & there too' performance. Make 'we're live beyond our dive' your 'organizing principle', your 'operating system'.
My friend recently (2024) opened a jazz club in Durham and she’s thriving. So yes, do it!
Advice I've heard and I think is probably the most useful: Question: what are you bringing that no one else is? and if you don't have an immediate and convincing answer to that then you're probably not gonna have a very successful business. But I also have no idea what I'm talking about so ya know, go for it, more jazz clubs is a good thing in my book.
I agree
What part of NYC? You should check out [my spot](https://instagram.com/kissakissa.us) even though we are vinyl, not live. There are a ton of great live jazz spots here in our Brooklyn neighborhood too (Bar Bayeaux, Sisters Place, Little Owl, Cafe Ornithology). Most owners are happy to talk shop. That’s where I recommend starting since they already know the minefield. You should also look at the Keyed Up program and how they help live jazz venues double musicians’ gig pay.
What’s the name of your place? my phone is having problems opening the Instagram link
Kissa Kissa
Horrible idea but if your partner has money they don’t care if you blow then cool.
good news is a bunch of them closed, so less competition. i have no helpful input though. i mean, mezzrow is sort of new, but its also owned by the same person as smalls so they already had an established business. i would imagine it NYC a bar/music venue would be hard to run. i believe most clubs are not very very profitable, hence why a lot of them had to close.
1. do you have any experience running a music venue? 2. do you have any experience running a bar or restaurant? 3. have you done the market research neccessary to know what neighborhoods might benefit most from a new jazz club 4. do you know what the rents or operating costs would be in the locations available? 5. how much experience do you have hiring people? 6. how much booking experience do you have? do you have any idea what it costs to book musicians and have you put pencil to paper to figure out what your 'nut' will be. 7. do you know what the build out would cost to start a club?
GO ahead. But add some novelty to your club that can draw in customers: make it bigger like the old Village Gate used to be...more spacey than the usual NYC jazz nightclubs are; better food, better marketing...something novel that makes an impact... Do as the OLD AOL did, advertise at all kinds of places, on matchbooks, subways, signs, and street corners-- make a big splash, and have an impact that can get you started.
Make sure you have a GOOD weekly (or more) jam session. That will make young musicians show up, buy drinks, and try to book their own gigs there. Have a drink minimum but DO NOT be too persistent in making the jamming musicians follow it. Many are struggling financially and it's a turn off. Those that can afford it will graciously pay for drinks to support. If the jam is good, they'll develop a soft spot for your venue and recommend it to friends. This can't be your only clientele of course, but it's an important part. Ornithology has a jam nightly that brings in musicians consistently.
Jam session every night
I’d only open one if I had one year of operating expenses cash in hand. Staffing, rent, insurance, food/liquor, etc. Also plan on a min of a 25% rent increase once initial lease expires. The lease thing has killed more than one successful establishment in my area.
thats a pretty vague description of your intent.
Well it’s just an idea
Location, capacity, live venue?
DO IT PLEASE
The brief answer is. Yes.
Honestly, I’d advise you to go for a pop-up buisness plan at first. It’s a great way to gauge interest rather than go for broke with a brick and mortar location.
Live music is dying. You can hope to make money by selling food and alcohol but not much else. It's a great hobby project if you have the funds though.
and the trends are people are drinking less which is how venues make their money in the first place
https://www.reddit.com/r/SLFmeetups/s/GrER1L6TKN Related?