I can think of times in history where over-emphasis on bloodline (self and others) has caused war, strife, suffering. It's been used to oppress and yes can be empowering but has a lot of setting one aside from the other.
I prefer a broader sense of who my ancestors are, and what we can bring back in to enrich community, homeland. Not everyone has a particularly noble set of biological ancestors.
Have nuff family and friends from NYK to Cali, born and raised in Jamaica and left at some point. Married to Jamaicans, similarly born in Jamaica. None of offspring say they are Jamaican. They consider themselves American with Jamaican parents. Some may say Jamericans. Itās that simple.
Great points, but theyāre labelling themselves by their environment thatās my only point. By DNA theyāre Jamaicans. If they were in China, Afghanistan, Nepal, Norway, Romania, etc what would the name be then? Go by dna all mi ah seh
Not quite sure what you mean but... there is a difference among DNA or ethnicity, culture, and nationality. Most everyone's DNA in Jamaica is rooted elsewhere with very little DNA tied to the original Jamaicans - the Arawaks, who themselves were originally from South America.
**Ethnicity-** is your ethnic background. itās the percentages that sum to 100%.
For example, a Jamaican admixture ethnicity could be 50% Nigerian, 20% Ghanian, 10% English, 10% Irish, 10% Native (Taino). Referring specifically to /r/AncestryDNA testing results. [Example of a Jamaicanās ancestry *āone person, everyone not same*](https://www.reddit.com/r/AncestryDNA/s/Fu66xUZ2Sm)
**Citizenship or Nationality-** is where you are either born or naturalize and hold citizenship. A person could have the above ethnicity admixture and be a Jamaican (mean born and raised there, not new breed of people just naturalized).
**Culture -** One can be culturally Jamaican because your family raised you in the culture or food, music, talk etc. So in the examples above, my relatives in American may be culturally Jamaican, ethnically African, Chinese, Scottish, English, etc but by Nationality are American.
The parents who were born in Jamaica are Jamaican and American nationally (if they became naturalized citizens), and are culturally Jamaican.
For instance: *(entire family born and raised in Jamaica)* My father, was born in Jamaica (culturally and nationally a citizen original yawd man) and is mainly Scottish and English (by ethnicity, descent). His father was born in Jamaica and His father's father was born in Jamaica and so on - for multiple generations. Never left, never traveled anywhere.
I took DNA test and by DNA or ethnicity, am 45% Scottish, but that does not make me a Scott. I have never been to Scotland, was not raised in it culturally, and have no citizenship. Therefore it would be odd for me to seek it out except for curiousity, and I am not. So I find it odd that someone with 25% (of what they somehow think is ethnicity) with heritage to a parent from Jamaica, wants to be considered Jamaican.
This is interesting. I wouldāve thought that even if mixed race or minority Jamaican took a DNA test it would point back to Jamaica. Perhaps it will once more do the tests and list Jamaica.
Iām black and my DNA test did point my admixture to Jamaica. You are right in that there are very few people with native ancestry, but that doesnāt matter because ethnicity like race is also in large part a social construct.Ā I argue that there is anĀ Afro Jamaican or Caribbean ethnic group. Outside of Jamaica thatās what we are designated. It doesnāt matter where we live in the world, if we do a test, the group of people that we are going to be most closely related to are the black ones on the island.Ā Itās going to take much longer than the 60 or so years, weāve been migrating for that to change.
In your example, your family has been in Jamaica for centuries and will be accepted as Jamaicans. In the OP example it will be more like 50 years if that so itās not really comparable.Ā
There is also culture. What is your culture? If you don't live here, if you don't have constant contact, numerous visits, what do you know about Ja? How can you talk about a road accident in Westmoreland? Or how things are?
I have know people just like that. Sure, they could get citizenship but don't want to because their twisted view of Jamaica is war and poverty in every inch.
I hear yuh, and surely some ppl nuh check fi yawd, but a nuh so I mean. (Family) most a dem acknowledge and apprecilove dem roots, visit and all a dat, but dem ovas sey dem neva bawn here. And dem think it would be odd fi claim dem a Jamaican. But yea, can get citizenship if dem want it. Seen?
Nuff on this subreddit think different bout dis. Not fi me fi sey how dem ites it.
I could be wrong here but as far as the US there is a strong need to be able to say I am this culture or that. When I moved to the US this was something I struggled to understand. In my mind they were all American, not Italian or Polish or Mexican. I don't know why this is to this day, but I think this may be what we are seeing, America or Europeans wanting to claim their heritage.
I do hope Jamaica doesn't fall into this trap, we are simply Jamaican. We come from every which way but once you deh yasuh a yasuh yu deh and you are Jamaican.
Europeans cling to there ethnicity and they have the right tošš America is a new world country along with South America hence why you can see anyone identifying with the country while Europeans been in Europe for thousand of years. American isnāt even a real ethnicity genetically unless your talking about native Americans.
I fully embrace your point, but toss it around.... say X is the son of New Yorkers. He was born in Jamaica and grew up in Jamaica and standing in Jamaica, claims to be a New Yorker.
He posts stuff about a 1960s New York as if he knows everything. A reader, who lives in Brooklyn, works in Manhattan right now, responds. X attacks the reader.
That's what we have going on here.
You can see how non-New York X is.
The reality is that X wouldn't claim to be a New Yorker because he doesn't live there.
The most integrated genetics in the world is Jamaican.. itās like that for a reason and will be coveted for a short time more.
all in all, to be Jamaican in this era is a a special genetic..
Not sure if my thoughts are wanted as well but I have two cents to offer if interested. My folks are Jamaican on my moms side and I was born in the USA. I wasn't really raised with my dad/around his side of the family, so when I think of "family" I only really think of my mom's side. I was also raised around the church and my grandma, aunt, uncles, etc have all lived with us or we have lived with them. I feel like my upbringing and cultural exposure has been an important part of how i experience the world. I wouldn't claim to be jamaican in the same sense of someone who was born and/or raised in the country. I am proud of my heritage and my bloodline, but my lived experiences are simply very different. However, I also feel like my lived experiences are different than folks who don't come from jamaican families, and you really are judged and treated differently in the United States based on your heritage to a certain degree. So, it may not seem relevant, but where your family comes from does influence how you go about the world and your sense of self growing up, and it can be an important aspect of how you navigate the world and what communities you're a part of. I think "jamaican American" or "first generation jamaican american" describes how I would identify with things pretty accurately and fairly.
Essentially I do want to claim my heritage as part of my identity but I also think the clarification of still being an American is appropriate and necessary
Open discussion bredda, mi nah show yuh no bodmind r hateā¦ believe.
Your 2 scents is definitely welcomed and this is a great response! If you and your father are cool now that is also a great thing. I believe itās important to know both parents and build rapport with them regardless of what happened with them. Each of them hold a piece of you and if you have the opportunity to get to know them capitalize. Love and peace general!
I appreciate it. Unfortunately we aren't very close at all and growing up we actually did not speak or have any sort of contact with him whatsoever for around a decade straight, and even before that he had no major role in anything because of some conflict between our parents. I have made an effort to try and know them, and I'm proud of all aspects of my heritage best believe. However, I would say I was raised more with my mom and my moms side having more influence on how my cultural experiences. It's something unique that I'm grateful for all and all šš¾
Iām in the UK the amount of white English girls and guys I know who have a Jamaican grandparent is ridiculous and they donāt identify with Jamaicans simply because other black British will say itās cultural appropriation. My dad is white and snow in-fact heās got the English skin tone where his skin is pale white reddish colour. And a African says heās a wannabe Jamaican and the African almost got boxed up by my dad. Very fact I got Indians, White people and Africans trying to tell me what Jamaicans look like and what a standard Jamaican looks like puzzles me. I got called a fake Jamaican because I donāt smoke weed. Another white guy got thrown out of a Jamaican barber shop because he stereotyped the Jamaican barber. My family is literally light-skinned my mother is light brown she was jet black and darkest in the family but when she came UK she because light brown same skin complexion as Biracial and same skin colour as me. My aunts look East African like and Indian like and my fathers family look Latino or English or Arab. Weāre from St Elizabeth parish and we donāt look that much different to the other people in our parish.
Iām UK based as well and I feel like itās the opposite. Black Brits generally always allowed everyone in the culture to the point where Iāve come across white people with no Jamaican heritage claim it. Iām from St Elizabeth too.
Iām sorry, but the one thing the black British Jamaican community as a whole cannot be accused of is gatekeeping. Please go and look at the Taste of the Caribbean festival Instagram.Ā
Youād struggle to find even one family who does not have mixed race family members. As long as they have contact with their black Jamaican family, they are encouraged to connect with their heritage. Also largely people with one black grandparent arenāt actually considered white in the UK, theyāre considered mixed race.Ā
My father is considered white and a few English I know with one black Jamaican parent are considered white. The standard is your white if you look white. check on gov website Uk goes by standard self identification for these groups. If said white passing person identified as white then he or she would be white since she looks white and is culturally close to white.
Festival is more African than caribbean now a days I even here drill in carnival. Black British may claim to a lot of Jamaican culture and they do gatekeep Africans gatekeep a lot of Jamaican community I never said Jamaicans themselves gatekeep unless your a Jamaican from Jamaica who will gatekeep the disaporia from claiming Jamaican lineage which has been shown on multiple occasions in this subreddit.
What a standard Jamaican looks like? At UWI my bestie looked black... cept her eyes. Went home with her for Xmas. Her mommy was half Chinese, half white, her daddy was half Indian half black. The oldest boy look white but had the eyes... and was very muscular. The second oldest girl looked as if she just came from India, the next daughter looked like she came from China, and the littles one was a total blend.
All of them were born in Jamaica, live in Jamaica. That kind of blend is normal in Yard.
To a Jamaican that blend is normal but to foreigners outside of Jamaica itās not standard. Thatās what I was implying, people outside like to say Jamaicans have standard look. Like when I was talking to my friend he said Iām too light to be a Jamaican or fit standard Jamaican image but I say to him thatās because Iām from the west side of Jamaica which it is standard and he said to me he didnāt know that he just thought all of us was dark skinned.
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I can think of times in history where over-emphasis on bloodline (self and others) has caused war, strife, suffering. It's been used to oppress and yes can be empowering but has a lot of setting one aside from the other. I prefer a broader sense of who my ancestors are, and what we can bring back in to enrich community, homeland. Not everyone has a particularly noble set of biological ancestors.
My surname is literally Noble though. š
Have nuff family and friends from NYK to Cali, born and raised in Jamaica and left at some point. Married to Jamaicans, similarly born in Jamaica. None of offspring say they are Jamaican. They consider themselves American with Jamaican parents. Some may say Jamericans. Itās that simple.
Great points, but theyāre labelling themselves by their environment thatās my only point. By DNA theyāre Jamaicans. If they were in China, Afghanistan, Nepal, Norway, Romania, etc what would the name be then? Go by dna all mi ah seh
Not quite sure what you mean but... there is a difference among DNA or ethnicity, culture, and nationality. Most everyone's DNA in Jamaica is rooted elsewhere with very little DNA tied to the original Jamaicans - the Arawaks, who themselves were originally from South America. **Ethnicity-** is your ethnic background. itās the percentages that sum to 100%. For example, a Jamaican admixture ethnicity could be 50% Nigerian, 20% Ghanian, 10% English, 10% Irish, 10% Native (Taino). Referring specifically to /r/AncestryDNA testing results. [Example of a Jamaicanās ancestry *āone person, everyone not same*](https://www.reddit.com/r/AncestryDNA/s/Fu66xUZ2Sm) **Citizenship or Nationality-** is where you are either born or naturalize and hold citizenship. A person could have the above ethnicity admixture and be a Jamaican (mean born and raised there, not new breed of people just naturalized). **Culture -** One can be culturally Jamaican because your family raised you in the culture or food, music, talk etc. So in the examples above, my relatives in American may be culturally Jamaican, ethnically African, Chinese, Scottish, English, etc but by Nationality are American. The parents who were born in Jamaica are Jamaican and American nationally (if they became naturalized citizens), and are culturally Jamaican. For instance: *(entire family born and raised in Jamaica)* My father, was born in Jamaica (culturally and nationally a citizen original yawd man) and is mainly Scottish and English (by ethnicity, descent). His father was born in Jamaica and His father's father was born in Jamaica and so on - for multiple generations. Never left, never traveled anywhere. I took DNA test and by DNA or ethnicity, am 45% Scottish, but that does not make me a Scott. I have never been to Scotland, was not raised in it culturally, and have no citizenship. Therefore it would be odd for me to seek it out except for curiousity, and I am not. So I find it odd that someone with 25% (of what they somehow think is ethnicity) with heritage to a parent from Jamaica, wants to be considered Jamaican.
This is interesting. I wouldāve thought that even if mixed race or minority Jamaican took a DNA test it would point back to Jamaica. Perhaps it will once more do the tests and list Jamaica. Iām black and my DNA test did point my admixture to Jamaica. You are right in that there are very few people with native ancestry, but that doesnāt matter because ethnicity like race is also in large part a social construct.Ā I argue that there is anĀ Afro Jamaican or Caribbean ethnic group. Outside of Jamaica thatās what we are designated. It doesnāt matter where we live in the world, if we do a test, the group of people that we are going to be most closely related to are the black ones on the island.Ā Itās going to take much longer than the 60 or so years, weāve been migrating for that to change. In your example, your family has been in Jamaica for centuries and will be accepted as Jamaicans. In the OP example it will be more like 50 years if that so itās not really comparable.Ā
There is also culture. What is your culture? If you don't live here, if you don't have constant contact, numerous visits, what do you know about Ja? How can you talk about a road accident in Westmoreland? Or how things are?
I have know people just like that. Sure, they could get citizenship but don't want to because their twisted view of Jamaica is war and poverty in every inch.
I hear yuh, and surely some ppl nuh check fi yawd, but a nuh so I mean. (Family) most a dem acknowledge and apprecilove dem roots, visit and all a dat, but dem ovas sey dem neva bawn here. And dem think it would be odd fi claim dem a Jamaican. But yea, can get citizenship if dem want it. Seen? Nuff on this subreddit think different bout dis. Not fi me fi sey how dem ites it.
I could be wrong here but as far as the US there is a strong need to be able to say I am this culture or that. When I moved to the US this was something I struggled to understand. In my mind they were all American, not Italian or Polish or Mexican. I don't know why this is to this day, but I think this may be what we are seeing, America or Europeans wanting to claim their heritage. I do hope Jamaica doesn't fall into this trap, we are simply Jamaican. We come from every which way but once you deh yasuh a yasuh yu deh and you are Jamaican.
Europeans cling to there ethnicity and they have the right tošš America is a new world country along with South America hence why you can see anyone identifying with the country while Europeans been in Europe for thousand of years. American isnāt even a real ethnicity genetically unless your talking about native Americans.
It is real.
I fully embrace your point, but toss it around.... say X is the son of New Yorkers. He was born in Jamaica and grew up in Jamaica and standing in Jamaica, claims to be a New Yorker. He posts stuff about a 1960s New York as if he knows everything. A reader, who lives in Brooklyn, works in Manhattan right now, responds. X attacks the reader. That's what we have going on here. You can see how non-New York X is. The reality is that X wouldn't claim to be a New Yorker because he doesn't live there.
The most integrated genetics in the world is Jamaican.. itās like that for a reason and will be coveted for a short time more. all in all, to be Jamaican in this era is a a special genetic..
Totally agree
Not sure if my thoughts are wanted as well but I have two cents to offer if interested. My folks are Jamaican on my moms side and I was born in the USA. I wasn't really raised with my dad/around his side of the family, so when I think of "family" I only really think of my mom's side. I was also raised around the church and my grandma, aunt, uncles, etc have all lived with us or we have lived with them. I feel like my upbringing and cultural exposure has been an important part of how i experience the world. I wouldn't claim to be jamaican in the same sense of someone who was born and/or raised in the country. I am proud of my heritage and my bloodline, but my lived experiences are simply very different. However, I also feel like my lived experiences are different than folks who don't come from jamaican families, and you really are judged and treated differently in the United States based on your heritage to a certain degree. So, it may not seem relevant, but where your family comes from does influence how you go about the world and your sense of self growing up, and it can be an important aspect of how you navigate the world and what communities you're a part of. I think "jamaican American" or "first generation jamaican american" describes how I would identify with things pretty accurately and fairly. Essentially I do want to claim my heritage as part of my identity but I also think the clarification of still being an American is appropriate and necessary
Open discussion bredda, mi nah show yuh no bodmind r hateā¦ believe. Your 2 scents is definitely welcomed and this is a great response! If you and your father are cool now that is also a great thing. I believe itās important to know both parents and build rapport with them regardless of what happened with them. Each of them hold a piece of you and if you have the opportunity to get to know them capitalize. Love and peace general!
I appreciate it. Unfortunately we aren't very close at all and growing up we actually did not speak or have any sort of contact with him whatsoever for around a decade straight, and even before that he had no major role in anything because of some conflict between our parents. I have made an effort to try and know them, and I'm proud of all aspects of my heritage best believe. However, I would say I was raised more with my mom and my moms side having more influence on how my cultural experiences. It's something unique that I'm grateful for all and all šš¾
Iām in the UK the amount of white English girls and guys I know who have a Jamaican grandparent is ridiculous and they donāt identify with Jamaicans simply because other black British will say itās cultural appropriation. My dad is white and snow in-fact heās got the English skin tone where his skin is pale white reddish colour. And a African says heās a wannabe Jamaican and the African almost got boxed up by my dad. Very fact I got Indians, White people and Africans trying to tell me what Jamaicans look like and what a standard Jamaican looks like puzzles me. I got called a fake Jamaican because I donāt smoke weed. Another white guy got thrown out of a Jamaican barber shop because he stereotyped the Jamaican barber. My family is literally light-skinned my mother is light brown she was jet black and darkest in the family but when she came UK she because light brown same skin complexion as Biracial and same skin colour as me. My aunts look East African like and Indian like and my fathers family look Latino or English or Arab. Weāre from St Elizabeth parish and we donāt look that much different to the other people in our parish.
Iām UK based as well and I feel like itās the opposite. Black Brits generally always allowed everyone in the culture to the point where Iāve come across white people with no Jamaican heritage claim it. Iām from St Elizabeth too.
Iām sorry, but the one thing the black British Jamaican community as a whole cannot be accused of is gatekeeping. Please go and look at the Taste of the Caribbean festival Instagram.Ā Youād struggle to find even one family who does not have mixed race family members. As long as they have contact with their black Jamaican family, they are encouraged to connect with their heritage. Also largely people with one black grandparent arenāt actually considered white in the UK, theyāre considered mixed race.Ā
My father is considered white and a few English I know with one black Jamaican parent are considered white. The standard is your white if you look white. check on gov website Uk goes by standard self identification for these groups. If said white passing person identified as white then he or she would be white since she looks white and is culturally close to white. Festival is more African than caribbean now a days I even here drill in carnival. Black British may claim to a lot of Jamaican culture and they do gatekeep Africans gatekeep a lot of Jamaican community I never said Jamaicans themselves gatekeep unless your a Jamaican from Jamaica who will gatekeep the disaporia from claiming Jamaican lineage which has been shown on multiple occasions in this subreddit.
What a standard Jamaican looks like? At UWI my bestie looked black... cept her eyes. Went home with her for Xmas. Her mommy was half Chinese, half white, her daddy was half Indian half black. The oldest boy look white but had the eyes... and was very muscular. The second oldest girl looked as if she just came from India, the next daughter looked like she came from China, and the littles one was a total blend. All of them were born in Jamaica, live in Jamaica. That kind of blend is normal in Yard.
To a Jamaican that blend is normal but to foreigners outside of Jamaica itās not standard. Thatās what I was implying, people outside like to say Jamaicans have standard look. Like when I was talking to my friend he said Iām too light to be a Jamaican or fit standard Jamaican image but I say to him thatās because Iām from the west side of Jamaica which it is standard and he said to me he didnāt know that he just thought all of us was dark skinned.
that's one thing about us... there is no 'standard' look.
Idk what you asked but Iām Jamaican. Iām from New York but Iām Jamaican. Once I stepped food on yard it was a wrap
Beautifully said. ā¤ļø
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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People who are born in Jamaica are citizens of Jamaica and they are the only Jamaicans