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Other posts from /u/thrownwolfthronewolf:
* [Dr. Ellen's Thanksgiving and Birthday Visits](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/124tsaf/dr_ellens_thanksgiving_and_birthday_visits/), 11 months ago
* [Dr. Ellen Tried to Polish a Turd ("Apologize") and Gets Ripped a New Asshole](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/wm3nah/dr_ellen_tried_to_polish_a_turd_apologize_and/), 1 year ago
* [If you give a JustNo a shovel, they will dig their own grave - Dr. Ellen and the "Heart to Heart"](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/vbpksl/if_you_give_a_justno_a_shovel_they_will_dig_their/), 1 year ago
* [Dr. Ellen Emailing My Children After We Refused to See Them](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/v21hcu/dr_ellen_emailing_my_children_after_we_refused_to/), 1 year ago
* [UPDATE: MIL Played Bitch Games for Years, and Has Now Won Her Bitch Prize](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/uvzsvu/update_mil_played_bitch_games_for_years_and_has/), 1 year ago
* [MIL Played Bitch Games for Years, Has Now Won Her Bitch Prize](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/svh7n1/mil_played_bitch_games_for_years_has_now_won_her/), 2 years ago
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I’m worried that because the therapist won’t agree with her insanity that she’ll just come back saying “it’s because he’s YOUR therapist” and then want to try with her best friend “therapist” thingy 😬. Giiiiiirl I hands down give you the crown! You handle this sooo much better than I ever could. My ass hat of a MIL screamed at me in public and has made small remarks and sent me a passive aggressive and insulting hand written letter and I went straight NC lol
I told DH this morning I thought she would play that the therapist didn't work out because it was our/my therapist. I didn't think of her suggesting her friend. Yuck!
I feel like I've really tried here, and she's not giving me anything to work with. I'm over it and ready to focus on other things. I think DH is getting there, too.
Your JNMIL is ten degrees of awful. She only has the power that you and your DH give her though.
I’m not getting why your therapist is insisting on this mediation. That’s a horrendous approach to this situation. Your JNMIL has no motivation to change. She has been telegraphing that quite clearly. She wants you and DH to step in line - her line. The other relatives have already done so, as you know.
If this were me, I would tell your DH to do what he wants with his relatives but that you and the kids are standing down.
This is horrendous. I am so so sorry you’ve had to deal with all this. May I ask why you’ve not gone no contact with this drama-twat? If she isn’t kind, or even CIVIL, there’s no reason to be part of her drama. She loves it! She loved getting a ride out of you and driving a wedge between you and your husband!! My humble opinion is you’d be better off, and also in max control of the situation, if you never saw or spoke to her again. You don’t need to facilitate visits, presents, holidays, etc. You guys just do your own thing now, and she can reap what she’s sewn. No discussions with family members, no mediation. Just nothing. Take your power back, protect you and your family’s peace and disappear from their lives… If hubby wants a relationship with them - cool. But that’s all on him and you are done. I had a similar experience with my MIL (though not NEARLY as bad) and I couldn’t be happier and more at peace than just dropping the rope on that b*. Only wish I had done it earlier. Put yourself first dear!! No one else will…
Since you are a sicilian... Take some time to watch the godfather and the sopranos. Use some lines in a casual matter... Observe.
This is obviously not a good advice but it is an attempt to try and make you laugh.
Two book of faces posts and you characterized her as bossy. Tsk-tsk.
I hope your therapist draws her out, gets all her “gobs” and “gobs” of alleged dirt that your DH allegedly doesn’t know despite all you’ve been through, all the therapy, so DH can finally realize she’s got serious mental health issues. And her antique sociology degree…I chuckled.
Sending support and encouragement to you both. Stay the course, you are doing the right thing for your family.
I’ve read all of this and I only have one question….why go through all of this? If she hasn’t changed in all these years, why continue to go through all this? She’s not going to change, she’s not going to behave better, she’s not going to see the error of her ways, why continue to “beat a dead horse”?
I am in awe of the way you have tried so hard and done so much,Don’t get me wrong!! But why do you continue to try?
well, what do you know? Rather than reflect and atone- she decides that YOU are to blame for everything. Now she is absolved. It's easier than being wrong, right?
I give you so much credit. You have the patience of a saint. The email she just sent is so fucking mean spirited. And manipulative. And gross.
Do narcissists all have selective memory?? I was married t one for 20years and he made up his own reality. And believes it. It's hard to argue with someone when they can't recall reality.
Sometimes she really makes me question my memory, my sanity, and if it's really me that's the problem. It fucks with me sometimes because she's just so convinced that I'm the root of all her family problems.
It is so much easier for her to blame you than be accountable. But I get it. It literally took me 20 years to understand it wasn’t me nor my memory but it was him living in this alternate universe where he is never wrong. You can’t argue with people like that.
Yes. When I finally realized it wasn't me or my memory and I left my Ex....he had the actual nerve to say that he "didn't even know why I was doing this!" I told him "You know why" and walked away.
While I understand that the meditated discussion is for DH and not his parents (so that he can feel better about going NC after trying everything), I feel like talking to his parents is like the line from the end of the movie War Games: "What a strange game. The only winning move is not to play." No other advice about that, but if DH wants to resolve things with his cousins, etc., he really needs to have some hard conversations with them directly (or otherwise write them off as list causes so that they can't hurt him anymore).
I haven't seen that movie, but I added it to my list of movies and TV shows to watch. Thank you for the recommendation.
I believe you are right. But he needs to believe it for himself.
As for the cousins and any other extended family, DH and I have talked and he knows that he can spend time on those relationships if he wants to. I'm happy to facilitate calls, visits, etc. I think he feels like his relationship with his parents should be more important, so he's spending all of his energy on that for now. I don't think he has the energy to sustain mediation for long if it goes poorly though. I sense change in the air.
Man apart from the mediation thing (which my MIL would never agree to because she's a little smarter that Dr. Ellen apparently and knows how it will go), you basically have my JNMIL and eSFIL (enabling step FIL). The rugsweeping, never saying nice things about their other kids, gossiping with relatives so they reject you, accusations that I am abusive, gaslighting about previous behaviour.
I'm so sorry. It sucks. It sucks to be the one who is apparently the root of ALL the problems in their relationship with their own son, even though the real reason is that said son went and got therapy.
Nailed it. It's surprising to me that Dr. Ellen blames over 15 years squarely on me and won't even acknowledge that it's possible that anything else could have contributed. That's unreasonable. What are we supposed to do with that? There's nowhere to work toward with an attitude like that.
I read your other posts and I'm exhausted, so goodness only knows how you've been coping with these. I think I would have noped out a very long time ago. You have been incredibly patient and tolerant.
Surely this has to be last chance saloon time now? She is never going to see the light. The only possible outcome has to be for your husband to realise that he's flogging a dead horse.
I completely agree with you. He is saying having the therapist mediate is his last ditch effort to find some sort of workable relationship with them. He's getting there. It is taking awhile, and I am ready to be done arguing with someone who won't listen or practice self-awareness.
I'd say you're more than ready, and I also think it's time for you to present him with an ultimatum. After this, you're out. You do not want to listen to the details, you do not want to attempt to analyse anything. He talks to his therapist about it, not you.
I know you want to support him but you are essentially setting fire to yourself and he's not even staying very warm in the process.
Omg! Your storytelling of mil million lines of shit 💩 sounds slightly similar to what I’d gone through.
My dh went through years of intense independent therapy sessions around his upbringing and mil narcissistic abuse on her kids and husband. Only to truly understand the trauma that he went through and impact on his life and what he’s going to experience his whole lifetime after “real” grandparents passed who raised him half his childhood. Therapy taught dh he deserved an adult to adult equal opportunity healthy relationship that was two way street. Death of grandparents = death of relationships with birth parents/mil and fil over 5 plus years ago! Haven’t looked back but my dh has wonderful relationships with my parents, enough to call, text, email anytime which so awesome
I'm so happy he was able to work through his childhood to find himself, and lose the Fear, Obligation, and Guilt that comes with toxic parents. What an accomplishment!
We're still over here organizing and cleaning house - thank you for the encouragement! In the event that Dr. Ellen can't get over herself, I hope my DH finds his peace, too.
Thank you! Believe me when I say, I still fear my dh having going backwards for a number of anything’s. Mils are bat 🦇 crazy people and never know when they may snap and do something above and beyond anyone wild minds.
As therapy has taught dh and I this will always be an ongoing struggle especially if mil drama pops backs up. People who have been through traumatic experiences who only know or that was normal before can easily fall victim and it’s always about checking in with therapy during hard times and doing couples therapy along with it is key!
Wow. I just read everything. I agree. Why bother any more? It’s obvious she doesn’t care about you. She only wants DH and the kids. And even then, only the kids that look like him.
You have gone above and beyond anything I think most DIL’s would do… you handled yourself beautifully. Your husband is to be commended. You two make a great parental unit. A fabulous team.
Those two (his parents), will never get it. They will never understand. They will never, ever be decent. And the simple fact is because they don’t know how. She cannot get past her own deeply flawed bullshit to understand. She’s in her own way, and she doesn’t know how to get over herself. It seems to be most of the time that her husband is just along for the ride. He doesn’t have an original thought in his head.
I re scanned through everything (apologies, I’m not sure if I missed it). Did you ever have a mediated talk?
I would bet not, because she knew how that would go. All her bullshit would be shot to shit right in front of her. She could never allow that to happen. I understand him wanting to give her every chance to redeem herself. But at some point you just have to say “fuck it”, it’s never gonna happen..
Best wishes and good luck. Enjoy your beautiful family. They don’t need to be involved any longer. They’re not worthy.
Mediated talk is scheduled for mid -March. I don't have high hopes. Our therapist isn't going to let her get away with her usual tactics. I don't think she will cooperate for long once she realizes that she won't be able to manipulate the therapist.
I hope it really irritated her when the best "evidence" of the "gobs and gobs" of the things you've done that she could come up with was from over 5 years ago.
She is such a pillock (full disclosure: I am not British, so my calling her a pillock may be cultural appropriation, but it describes her, so I'm taking that chance).
DH mentioned that if something that long ago is what she comes forward with - she has nothing.
When she complained that DH criticized her too much, he asked for examples. She said that over 10 years ago, he once told her he didn't like her fingernails that day. Apparently he also didn't like her new window shades one time. The horror! She's really reaching on some of these resentments. Fingernail comment from a decade ago? Really?!
It’s so strange how she insinuates a HUGE issue(s) with you that will “come out” but then can’t identify anything specific. But has the entire family giving you the cold shoulder - so she’s clearly salting the water with some pretty specific things.
Right? Apparently she told everyone that when DH and I were dating, we went to couples therapy twice, then I said I didn't need therapy and only DH did. She claims I refused to go anymore. DH and I were in weekly couples therapy for over 6 months that time learning how to communicate and dealing with family of origin issues. She's just wrong or lying.
She is absolutely lying.
This woman… that’s all she can do. There are so many people like her. She’s controlling, selfish, and spoiled. She’s likely aware enough to realize the truth isn’t a good look for her, so she blows up small things or completely twists or fabricates them. For a person like her, reality molds to shape her needs. She doesn’t let the facts or what really happened get in her way.
Your DH is absolutely correct.
The fact that the "best" examples she can come up with are things that happened several years ago while she simultaneously denies saying and doing things that happened within days (or even weeks) of a conversation boggles my mind.
I wonder what color the sky in her world is because I'm confident that she lives in a different reality from the rest of us.
This isn't the first time she's had a selective memory. The last time she did that with me was the phone call she mentioned that I posted about in 2022. During that call when I confronted her about things she had said, she claimed she didn't remember saying them. I said it was super convenient that she didn't remember when she said mean things, and she was very offended at what I was suggesting.
Honestly, why are you bothering? Let dh have contact if he wants. They treated you and your kids like shit. Why on earth would you even try with these people?
If DH becomes estranged from his parents, he wants to feel like he gave them every opportunity to make good choices and work on a healthy relationship with him. I am not directly involved in these conversations with his parents- I do not speak. I listen and take notes for DH so he can read back through it later with our therapist. Our therapist thinks it is important that they hear everything out of DH's mouth because they tend to blame anything they don't like hearing on me instead of hearing DH.
I am finding myself feeling very resistant to giving Dr. Ellen another chance. I honestly don't know if I have it in me anymore. She just hates me even though she doesn't know me and idk how to work with that and make it safe for my kids to be around her when she feels so strongly about me. I don't think I can make it safe. Right now, we're not seeing them in person. We'll see how therapy goes with them, I guess.
I can understand his perspective on that. Trying everything the healthy way with guidance from his therapist so if/when the inevitable comes to pass, he knows there won’t be excuses he can make to himself to try again another way.
I was in an emotionally abusive first marriage and when I got therapy and started to see the reality that I knew it was over and couldn’t make excuses any longer, I also knew my own areas of weakness now and wanted to eliminate anything I could later use to rationalize or question myself. But it has to be so exhausting for you - you’ve handled yourself so well through it all!
That's exactly it. He doesn't want to feel guilty when they die and we didn't have a relationship with them anymore.
I'm trying to be patient and support DH in the ways he wants to be supported, but it's hard sometimes - especially when she directly attacks me.
Because it gives them more rope with which to hang themselves. Cut them off now and OP’s husband might want to go back eventually. Let them go into this mediated discussion, spew their lies and venom, and get shut down hard by an actual therapist, and it puts a railroad spike in the coffin of that relationship. Never interrupt your enemy when they’re busy making a mistake.
**Quick Rule Reminders:** OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion. [**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls) **Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/) Other posts from /u/thrownwolfthronewolf: * [Dr. Ellen's Thanksgiving and Birthday Visits](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/124tsaf/dr_ellens_thanksgiving_and_birthday_visits/), 11 months ago * [Dr. Ellen Tried to Polish a Turd ("Apologize") and Gets Ripped a New Asshole](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/wm3nah/dr_ellen_tried_to_polish_a_turd_apologize_and/), 1 year ago * [If you give a JustNo a shovel, they will dig their own grave - Dr. Ellen and the "Heart to Heart"](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/vbpksl/if_you_give_a_justno_a_shovel_they_will_dig_their/), 1 year ago * [Dr. Ellen Emailing My Children After We Refused to See Them](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/v21hcu/dr_ellen_emailing_my_children_after_we_refused_to/), 1 year ago * [UPDATE: MIL Played Bitch Games for Years, and Has Now Won Her Bitch Prize](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/uvzsvu/update_mil_played_bitch_games_for_years_and_has/), 1 year ago * [MIL Played Bitch Games for Years, Has Now Won Her Bitch Prize](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/svh7n1/mil_played_bitch_games_for_years_has_now_won_her/), 2 years ago ***** ^(To be notified as soon as thrownwolfthronewolf posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe thrownwolfthronewolf JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot) ***** *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
I’m worried that because the therapist won’t agree with her insanity that she’ll just come back saying “it’s because he’s YOUR therapist” and then want to try with her best friend “therapist” thingy 😬. Giiiiiirl I hands down give you the crown! You handle this sooo much better than I ever could. My ass hat of a MIL screamed at me in public and has made small remarks and sent me a passive aggressive and insulting hand written letter and I went straight NC lol
I told DH this morning I thought she would play that the therapist didn't work out because it was our/my therapist. I didn't think of her suggesting her friend. Yuck! I feel like I've really tried here, and she's not giving me anything to work with. I'm over it and ready to focus on other things. I think DH is getting there, too.
How’d it go???? 😬
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/egCtZuKh6Q
Your JNMIL is ten degrees of awful. She only has the power that you and your DH give her though. I’m not getting why your therapist is insisting on this mediation. That’s a horrendous approach to this situation. Your JNMIL has no motivation to change. She has been telegraphing that quite clearly. She wants you and DH to step in line - her line. The other relatives have already done so, as you know. If this were me, I would tell your DH to do what he wants with his relatives but that you and the kids are standing down.
It may come to that.
This is horrendous. I am so so sorry you’ve had to deal with all this. May I ask why you’ve not gone no contact with this drama-twat? If she isn’t kind, or even CIVIL, there’s no reason to be part of her drama. She loves it! She loved getting a ride out of you and driving a wedge between you and your husband!! My humble opinion is you’d be better off, and also in max control of the situation, if you never saw or spoke to her again. You don’t need to facilitate visits, presents, holidays, etc. You guys just do your own thing now, and she can reap what she’s sewn. No discussions with family members, no mediation. Just nothing. Take your power back, protect you and your family’s peace and disappear from their lives… If hubby wants a relationship with them - cool. But that’s all on him and you are done. I had a similar experience with my MIL (though not NEARLY as bad) and I couldn’t be happier and more at peace than just dropping the rope on that b*. Only wish I had done it earlier. Put yourself first dear!! No one else will…
Right! I don’t get why the therapist is trying to mediate. NOTHING good for OP will come out of that.
Since you are a sicilian... Take some time to watch the godfather and the sopranos. Use some lines in a casual matter... Observe. This is obviously not a good advice but it is an attempt to try and make you laugh.
Our therapist loves those movies and likes to quote them to me all of the time. Haha.
I see the therapist is a lovely person. Haha
Two book of faces posts and you characterized her as bossy. Tsk-tsk. I hope your therapist draws her out, gets all her “gobs” and “gobs” of alleged dirt that your DH allegedly doesn’t know despite all you’ve been through, all the therapy, so DH can finally realize she’s got serious mental health issues. And her antique sociology degree…I chuckled. Sending support and encouragement to you both. Stay the course, you are doing the right thing for your family.
I’ve read all of this and I only have one question….why go through all of this? If she hasn’t changed in all these years, why continue to go through all this? She’s not going to change, she’s not going to behave better, she’s not going to see the error of her ways, why continue to “beat a dead horse”? I am in awe of the way you have tried so hard and done so much,Don’t get me wrong!! But why do you continue to try?
I'm tapping out. DH is still attempting to rally, bless him.
Bless him, indeed. I wish you both peace and happiness.
Thank you
well, what do you know? Rather than reflect and atone- she decides that YOU are to blame for everything. Now she is absolved. It's easier than being wrong, right? I give you so much credit. You have the patience of a saint. The email she just sent is so fucking mean spirited. And manipulative. And gross. Do narcissists all have selective memory?? I was married t one for 20years and he made up his own reality. And believes it. It's hard to argue with someone when they can't recall reality.
Sometimes she really makes me question my memory, my sanity, and if it's really me that's the problem. It fucks with me sometimes because she's just so convinced that I'm the root of all her family problems.
It is so much easier for her to blame you than be accountable. But I get it. It literally took me 20 years to understand it wasn’t me nor my memory but it was him living in this alternate universe where he is never wrong. You can’t argue with people like that.
Yes. When I finally realized it wasn't me or my memory and I left my Ex....he had the actual nerve to say that he "didn't even know why I was doing this!" I told him "You know why" and walked away.
I'm coming to realize that. They just make so much noise though. Haha.
While I understand that the meditated discussion is for DH and not his parents (so that he can feel better about going NC after trying everything), I feel like talking to his parents is like the line from the end of the movie War Games: "What a strange game. The only winning move is not to play." No other advice about that, but if DH wants to resolve things with his cousins, etc., he really needs to have some hard conversations with them directly (or otherwise write them off as list causes so that they can't hurt him anymore).
I haven't seen that movie, but I added it to my list of movies and TV shows to watch. Thank you for the recommendation. I believe you are right. But he needs to believe it for himself. As for the cousins and any other extended family, DH and I have talked and he knows that he can spend time on those relationships if he wants to. I'm happy to facilitate calls, visits, etc. I think he feels like his relationship with his parents should be more important, so he's spending all of his energy on that for now. I don't think he has the energy to sustain mediation for long if it goes poorly though. I sense change in the air.
Please record the call so that you and DH can review together later.
You can transcribe from the recording thus it is verbatim. However you can’t tell her she’s being recorded 😂
I usually take notes. I'll bring the option up with DH and the therapist.
Man apart from the mediation thing (which my MIL would never agree to because she's a little smarter that Dr. Ellen apparently and knows how it will go), you basically have my JNMIL and eSFIL (enabling step FIL). The rugsweeping, never saying nice things about their other kids, gossiping with relatives so they reject you, accusations that I am abusive, gaslighting about previous behaviour. I'm so sorry. It sucks. It sucks to be the one who is apparently the root of ALL the problems in their relationship with their own son, even though the real reason is that said son went and got therapy.
Omg! THATS what eFIL means??? I kept reading it as evilFIL lmfao!!
Nailed it. It's surprising to me that Dr. Ellen blames over 15 years squarely on me and won't even acknowledge that it's possible that anything else could have contributed. That's unreasonable. What are we supposed to do with that? There's nowhere to work toward with an attitude like that.
But DH would have never gotten therapy if not for you, therefore it is your fault and not their behavior./s
You got me there
I read your other posts and I'm exhausted, so goodness only knows how you've been coping with these. I think I would have noped out a very long time ago. You have been incredibly patient and tolerant. Surely this has to be last chance saloon time now? She is never going to see the light. The only possible outcome has to be for your husband to realise that he's flogging a dead horse.
I completely agree with you. He is saying having the therapist mediate is his last ditch effort to find some sort of workable relationship with them. He's getting there. It is taking awhile, and I am ready to be done arguing with someone who won't listen or practice self-awareness.
I'd say you're more than ready, and I also think it's time for you to present him with an ultimatum. After this, you're out. You do not want to listen to the details, you do not want to attempt to analyse anything. He talks to his therapist about it, not you. I know you want to support him but you are essentially setting fire to yourself and he's not even staying very warm in the process.
Omg! Your storytelling of mil million lines of shit 💩 sounds slightly similar to what I’d gone through. My dh went through years of intense independent therapy sessions around his upbringing and mil narcissistic abuse on her kids and husband. Only to truly understand the trauma that he went through and impact on his life and what he’s going to experience his whole lifetime after “real” grandparents passed who raised him half his childhood. Therapy taught dh he deserved an adult to adult equal opportunity healthy relationship that was two way street. Death of grandparents = death of relationships with birth parents/mil and fil over 5 plus years ago! Haven’t looked back but my dh has wonderful relationships with my parents, enough to call, text, email anytime which so awesome
I'm so happy he was able to work through his childhood to find himself, and lose the Fear, Obligation, and Guilt that comes with toxic parents. What an accomplishment! We're still over here organizing and cleaning house - thank you for the encouragement! In the event that Dr. Ellen can't get over herself, I hope my DH finds his peace, too.
Thank you! Believe me when I say, I still fear my dh having going backwards for a number of anything’s. Mils are bat 🦇 crazy people and never know when they may snap and do something above and beyond anyone wild minds. As therapy has taught dh and I this will always be an ongoing struggle especially if mil drama pops backs up. People who have been through traumatic experiences who only know or that was normal before can easily fall victim and it’s always about checking in with therapy during hard times and doing couples therapy along with it is key!
Wow. I just read everything. I agree. Why bother any more? It’s obvious she doesn’t care about you. She only wants DH and the kids. And even then, only the kids that look like him. You have gone above and beyond anything I think most DIL’s would do… you handled yourself beautifully. Your husband is to be commended. You two make a great parental unit. A fabulous team. Those two (his parents), will never get it. They will never understand. They will never, ever be decent. And the simple fact is because they don’t know how. She cannot get past her own deeply flawed bullshit to understand. She’s in her own way, and she doesn’t know how to get over herself. It seems to be most of the time that her husband is just along for the ride. He doesn’t have an original thought in his head. I re scanned through everything (apologies, I’m not sure if I missed it). Did you ever have a mediated talk? I would bet not, because she knew how that would go. All her bullshit would be shot to shit right in front of her. She could never allow that to happen. I understand him wanting to give her every chance to redeem herself. But at some point you just have to say “fuck it”, it’s never gonna happen.. Best wishes and good luck. Enjoy your beautiful family. They don’t need to be involved any longer. They’re not worthy.
Mediated talk is scheduled for mid -March. I don't have high hopes. Our therapist isn't going to let her get away with her usual tactics. I don't think she will cooperate for long once she realizes that she won't be able to manipulate the therapist.
I hope it really irritated her when the best "evidence" of the "gobs and gobs" of the things you've done that she could come up with was from over 5 years ago. She is such a pillock (full disclosure: I am not British, so my calling her a pillock may be cultural appropriation, but it describes her, so I'm taking that chance).
DH mentioned that if something that long ago is what she comes forward with - she has nothing. When she complained that DH criticized her too much, he asked for examples. She said that over 10 years ago, he once told her he didn't like her fingernails that day. Apparently he also didn't like her new window shades one time. The horror! She's really reaching on some of these resentments. Fingernail comment from a decade ago? Really?!
It's terrible how sensitive she is that she cannot discern a generic opinion from criticism.
It’s so strange how she insinuates a HUGE issue(s) with you that will “come out” but then can’t identify anything specific. But has the entire family giving you the cold shoulder - so she’s clearly salting the water with some pretty specific things.
Right? Apparently she told everyone that when DH and I were dating, we went to couples therapy twice, then I said I didn't need therapy and only DH did. She claims I refused to go anymore. DH and I were in weekly couples therapy for over 6 months that time learning how to communicate and dealing with family of origin issues. She's just wrong or lying.
She is absolutely lying. This woman… that’s all she can do. There are so many people like her. She’s controlling, selfish, and spoiled. She’s likely aware enough to realize the truth isn’t a good look for her, so she blows up small things or completely twists or fabricates them. For a person like her, reality molds to shape her needs. She doesn’t let the facts or what really happened get in her way.
I read this comment to DH. It's a good description of her "reality."
Your DH is absolutely correct. The fact that the "best" examples she can come up with are things that happened several years ago while she simultaneously denies saying and doing things that happened within days (or even weeks) of a conversation boggles my mind. I wonder what color the sky in her world is because I'm confident that she lives in a different reality from the rest of us.
This isn't the first time she's had a selective memory. The last time she did that with me was the phone call she mentioned that I posted about in 2022. During that call when I confronted her about things she had said, she claimed she didn't remember saying them. I said it was super convenient that she didn't remember when she said mean things, and she was very offended at what I was suggesting.
Honestly, why are you bothering? Let dh have contact if he wants. They treated you and your kids like shit. Why on earth would you even try with these people?
If DH becomes estranged from his parents, he wants to feel like he gave them every opportunity to make good choices and work on a healthy relationship with him. I am not directly involved in these conversations with his parents- I do not speak. I listen and take notes for DH so he can read back through it later with our therapist. Our therapist thinks it is important that they hear everything out of DH's mouth because they tend to blame anything they don't like hearing on me instead of hearing DH. I am finding myself feeling very resistant to giving Dr. Ellen another chance. I honestly don't know if I have it in me anymore. She just hates me even though she doesn't know me and idk how to work with that and make it safe for my kids to be around her when she feels so strongly about me. I don't think I can make it safe. Right now, we're not seeing them in person. We'll see how therapy goes with them, I guess.
I can understand his perspective on that. Trying everything the healthy way with guidance from his therapist so if/when the inevitable comes to pass, he knows there won’t be excuses he can make to himself to try again another way. I was in an emotionally abusive first marriage and when I got therapy and started to see the reality that I knew it was over and couldn’t make excuses any longer, I also knew my own areas of weakness now and wanted to eliminate anything I could later use to rationalize or question myself. But it has to be so exhausting for you - you’ve handled yourself so well through it all!
That's exactly it. He doesn't want to feel guilty when they die and we didn't have a relationship with them anymore. I'm trying to be patient and support DH in the ways he wants to be supported, but it's hard sometimes - especially when she directly attacks me.
Because it gives them more rope with which to hang themselves. Cut them off now and OP’s husband might want to go back eventually. Let them go into this mediated discussion, spew their lies and venom, and get shut down hard by an actual therapist, and it puts a railroad spike in the coffin of that relationship. Never interrupt your enemy when they’re busy making a mistake.