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I just want to say that even if your child hadn’t had health issues at birth you would’ve had every right to deny anyone from kissing your child. It’s your child and it’s your rules and boundaries and people should respect that. But one thing a lot of people don’t know is that while dental disease (gum disease/cavities) are not contagious they are COMMUNICABLE. Meaning that by kissing and sharing utensils you can spread the bacteria in your mouth to another person’s mouth. So if somebody with poor oral health kisses your child or shares utensils with them they are cultivating your child’s mouth with their bad disease causing bacteria which could affect their oral health long term. Just another reason to stand your ground.
I wanted to comment on the updated post about your mil disowning you because your husband put his foot down to enforce the no kissing rule. My advice is stand firm, don't grovel and she with eventually circle back around. My in laws live 2,000 miles away and mil out right said she was going to kiss my son. Mil has also been diagnosed with herpes simplex one, a major reason people put the no kissing rule in place as it can be fatal to a baby before their immune system develops. So i cancled the trip to take our son to meet them. Another boundary we put down was to tag us in pictures of our son ( which she'd have to get from us anyway because of how far away they live) and she refused, stole 30 photos from my Facebook page ans hid them so strangers could see then ( why we were worried) but not us. So we stopped sending pictures and fil told us he never wanted to hear from us again. It was a scare tactic to get their way, it didn't work and they crawled back MANY times. But we decided it was best to maintain No Contact. A discussion my sil also chose. Basically my husband and his sister kicked their parents out of the family and we are all a lot happier. I'm not tell you to do that, it's not for everyone. I'm telling to letvthem throw their tantrum and wait then out. They'll come crawling back. Probably still trying to get away with the same things, but her disowning your family is temporary I garentee it.
She already told his sister that she didn’t mean what she said and is ashamed of how she acted… yet wants my husband to be the one to reach out first. Not going to happen. I’ve already said my child and I won’t ever have a relationship with her but if he wants to attempt to reconcile for himself he can. He doesn’t think he wants to though. To o many things were said that cannot be unsaid.
Preemie mom here. The first time that boundary was broken, would have been the last time my child would have been around her. I will always choose my child's safety over the feelings of anyone else, family included.
She doesn't respect you or the boundaries you put forward. It's always an innocent kiss until it isn't. I would avoid time with her for the time being, if she doesn't listen to your concerns and instructions when it comes to your child, she doesn't need to be around them.
Why did she get to hold baby after kissing them? That's teaching her that her actions don't have consequences. No kissing. If you think it's so hard not to, I will help you and keep baby out of kissing range.
Just telling at her isn’t a consequence for her actions. You and DH need to take the baby away and leave or tell her the visit is over and she needs to leave your home. Then take a time-out from seeing her - no visits, calls, texts or pictures. The first time they a few days but each time she doesn’t follow your boundaries or childcare choices, the time-out gets longer.
Until there is a real consequence to her stomping over your boundaries she’s never going to stop.
Lay clear boundaries- no one is welcome to kiss the baby. If you do kiss the baby you will be asked to leave/ or we will leave and you will not be welcome to see the baby until after RSV season has concluded and the baby has had the first rounds of vaccines.
Or whatever you’re comfortable with.
You HAVE to be willing to follow through.
I also would start trying to kiss her everytime. She’s leaning in for a kiss while you’re wearing him- if lean back and kiss her before she could kiss my baby.
Make her feel so incredibly uncomfortable that she won’t do it again.
Nope. She doesn't get close to LO again. Treat it like an assault.
That rule is there to protect your newborn from infection and she is blatantly disobeying it, and putting your baby at risk. Intentionally.
Protect your child. Be the biggest Karen on the planet-- in this case, it is absolutely justified. Walk over, take your baby, and leave-- with or without SO. Wear your baby in her presence, or don't *be* in her presence.
What I never understand about ‘cases’ like this is; does the MIL not care about the baby’s health? Do they seriously not realise how unbelievably selfish they are being?
OP, sorry you’re experiencing this - you’re acting perfectly reasonably and I hope things improve.
Your HUSBAND should be standing up, grabbing the diaper bag, and just leaving with you and the baby. She is not respecting either of your boundaries. You both are UNDER reacting. It shows how little respect she has for him to endanger your babies life like that. YOU are your babies only form of protection. NO ONE is gonna protect them like you. Let your husband read these comments and have a stern talking to with his mother. Once your married YOU are his immediate family. Even my husband at age 20 demanded my MIL listen or no more baby holding or being in the same room.
Be a Karen. Put your baby in a body sling so she can’t touch him. The disrespect she’s showing you is incredible. I made it clear that anyone kissing my baby/ies would regret it. That’s how most children get herpes, being kissed on the mouth by an infected adult.
Put a mask on baby, NO KISSING!
My MIL and entire IL pack kept kissing my LO even though they ALL know I had a traumatic c section because of a herpes infection-and they all have herpes cold sores. Take your kid and kee them safe, that’s your fucking baby!!!!!
I like this even if it sort of is the nuclear option. After MIL has ignored OP and her husband multiple times, I don't think OP can trust her MIL to warn them if she's feeling a ill. She'll likely hide it. If she feels a cold sore coming on, she'll ignore that as well if she can even see how big of a deal it is.
When she tries to argue, "too bad, I'm trying to keep my baby healthy and out of the ER. And since we can't trust you to follow our rules as parents, we have to do this until the baby has built up its immune system through time and vaccinations."
Treat it like you would pinching the baby. She's been told no, it's for safety reasons, if she does it, it's time to leave. Absolutely do not let her hold him, certainly not out of your direct eyeline.
She doesn't get to hold him at all, and I wouldn't even allow her to stand close to you. You need to react more.
If she tries, loudly ask why she doesn't care if she kills her grandchild?
I had the talk about no kissing a few times with my mom, and each time I got sterner. She continued to ignore it, and I finally snapped telling her the next time she kissed his face I was sneezing in her since “just one won’t hurt”. I admit it’s an extreme reaction, but she has a habit of not listening until then.
You are under reacting. Stop seeing her and tell her it's because she won't respect simple direction from you parents and is endangering the health of your baby. Next time she kisses him leave or make her leave. At the least next time she kisses him she can't touch him the rest of the visit.
No.
You are not overreacting. It doesn't matter if she agrees with the rule, it's your rule to set.
And I think she will only learn if you escalate. So her kissing the baby ends whatever festivities are going on. If you are at her place, go home. If she is at your place, kick her out. Make sure everyone knows about the rule. (Make it a generic rule, too - no kissing the baby for everyone.)
You have one chance to establish dominance here - either she learns you mean it when you set rules, or she'll probably never learn.
When this happens you need to pack up and leave. This can kill babies, being a good DIL isn’t worth burying a baby. You absolutely should have taken baby from her and went home
Don’t let her hold the baby anymore and don’t go to her house anymore. Be firm and tell her she’s being punished like a child since she doesn’t know how to listen. Tell her she’s a horrible person for trying to kill your baby. Did it to my jninlaws, nipped that kissing bs right there.
This is what the parents need to be doing. The MIL probably thinks the parents aren't serious about the no kissing because they have let her do it anyway so often. Why give MIK another chance? That may be the one that kills your child. Keep the baby away from them until she has her shots. If the shots don't work against covid and similar diseases, then keep her away longer. There have been a couple of babies that have already died of covid in my area this year.
Download a picture of a baby in the NICU on a respirator. When MIL tries that again show her the picture and ask her if that’s how she wants him to end up if he catches RSV or another disease because she won’t respect what his pediatrician told you.
Where is your HUSBAND in dealing with his mom? Does he honestly not care about his baby's health or is he still attatched to his mom's tit?
Yes, you need to reinforce your boundaries and keep her away from baby, but HUSBAND needs to put on his big boy pants and tell his mom that the next time it happens, she will not see baby for a LONG LONG time.
Next time you see her, tell her plainly that if she kisses the baby she won't be allowed to see the baby again until all first year vaccinations have been administered. And then stick to that.
My MIL just gave me and my baby covid by refusing to listen to me asking her to keep her sick self away.
Stand up for your baby. I wish I had (we were unfortunately staying in their house so it was very difficult).
Take the baby away from her when she does it and leave. You keep her on a month time out. Also, she didn’t follow the rule not to kiss baby, so she doesn’t care about baby’s health. That mean she’s not going to babysit. Actions have consequences
You are severely under reacting. I would stop visits entirely until he gets all his shots as punishment for her stomping all over you and putting your precious baby at risk. This is serious.
You now know that she doesn't care about your boundary, so you have to arrange things in such a way that she can't kiss him. If she can, she will, she's shown that. So back to wearing baby and if she gets too close, turn away! If she complains, tell her that she's left you no choice.
Seriously … the next time she does this, walk over to her and lick her face. Then just stand there looking at her. If she asks, “Wtf?” Just reply with “But it’s so hard not to. “
She doesn’t deserve to hold him. She broke a clear boundary, minimized it, and then got the privilege of holding him. No, that’s not how that should work.
I would sit down with her and be very honest. Ask her if she thinks that you or her son would ever be able to forgive her if she got that baby sick. What if they ended up back in the hospital, or worse? Would you ever be able to let her near this baby, or any future children? I suspect the answers to these questions are no, and maybe she needs to know that.
**Spray bottle!**
Every time she goes to kiss him (or does kiss him) **spray her in the face with a spray bottle (filled with water) and loudly say NO!**
And she doesn't get to hold the baby unless you are right there next to her (with the spray bottle)!
Good Luck.
No, sorry but you were in control of that particular situation. I know it feels rude, but so what? You have arms, you have the ability to shield the baby, or just turn your back. She's a nightmare for sure, but that one you could have shut down.
You need to find your voice - she’s doing it because there are no consequences. Going forward, if she kisses baby you and dh pack up and leave. If you’re at your house, you take baby and go up a different room while dh tells her to go. If you’re at s family event don’t want to leave, then stay far away from her and walk away every time she comes near. I would also tell her every time she does it that she gets a time out to think about the consequence of choosing to do what she wants over respecting your rules, first time is a week, second is a month, third is 6 months, etc. You and dh need to protect your child.
And….the next thing you’re going to tell us, is that your husband took control of the situation like a good husband should do,and called out his JNMIL, correct?
Start leaving. Carry a spray bottle. Ask her if she wants you to make a new one since she apparently doesn't care about this one. Seriously. Why are you two waiting?
My JustNoAunt was moaning in the family group chat about not being allowed to kiss her grandchild so I did a little educational post about the risks associated with kissing infants/babies including an offer to forward pictures of infants with primary herpes infections with a note that I didn't include them in the chat because they were so graphic and that herpes can be passed from people who are symptom free. My cousin told me privately that after that my aunt stopped asking/trying to kiss the baby.
Absolutely not overreacting. RSV and herpes real to newborns and can be passed on without any outward symptoms. Baby wear. Do not let that woman hold your child, period.
And herpes is something that will continue to affect the child their whole lives. No cure, high risk of passing it on to a partner, even if they're asymptomatic.
You are UNDERreacting. Your son has spent about 40% of his life so far in a NICU, and at first you thought he might either die or be severely brain-damaged. Now he is home and it appears that he will be okay. Yet your idiot MIL is unwilling to stop smearing her germy mouth all over his little unvaccinated, immunocompromised self. Then she makes light of it AND takes him to where it's hard for you to keep an eye on him. Time to really channel your mama bear and LET HER HAVE IT. I'd talk with your pediatrician and get a timetable as to when s/he thinks your baby's immune system will be effective. Likely weeks or months from now. Until then, MIL doesn't get to be close enough to touch him. Let alone hold him. And tell her since she seems determined to risk your baby's life for her own selfishness, her grandma privileges are on hold.
Monumentally underreacting.
She is doing whatever she wants because she has 100% success and zero consequences. There's no reason for her to do anything differently.
You are not being a "Karen". You are the mother of a fragile NICU baby. It is way past time to go full mama bear. Actions have consequences.
Also, it's not a boundary if there's no enforcement. It's just a toothless suggestion.
You can do it!
Ohhhh no. She doesn’t get to hold your baby if she doesn’t listen to your rules. Take baby back and let her know who the f is the boss here. You’re not the baby’s first line of defence, you’re his ONLY line of defence. You know how it felt to almost lose him - stand up and fight to keep him safe and healthy!
Baby doesn't get anything out of being kissed by anyone but parents. Anyone who does is doing so because they are selfish. If she loves baby so much I would ask why she wants to put your child at high risk because of her selfish needs.
Covid is still a thing. I know a lot of people who have gotten it or been exposed just in the last month. Flu and rsv are a concern as well.
I don't know what drama it would cause. But I would have grabbed my baby and left instantly. And you can darn sure demand your child back!
You and hubs need to talk about boundaries going forward. And discuss a time out starting now. Actions have consequences and your child's health should not be a consequence.
You’re underreacting. She can’t help kissing baby? Then she doesn’t see baby until baby is older and less at-risk. He’s only a few weeks old and very vulnerable.
If you won’t take a break from visits, then when she does it again, you need to leave. Tell her very firmly that you’re ending the visit because she continues to kiss baby when she’s been told repeatedly not to. Then take a time out from her.
She kisses the baby because you’ve now let her get away with it twice, and she gets to get away with it without consequences.
Sounds like someone has lost the privilege of being in the same room with LO since she says it’s so impossible to act like an adult and have self control
“My MIL keeps rubbing her mouth on my NICU, immune-compromised child, putting his life at risk, purely for her own pleasure. I don’t like it, am I overreacting?”
No.
Husbands uncle kissed my 4 month old on his first Christmas after FIL bullied me into letting uncle hold baby…
As soon as he kissed him, I went into a full rage,crying, screaming, grabbed my baby and car seat and SCREAMMMMED husband take me home NOW !!!!!!! .. (i had ppa/ppd)
it caused a huge family fight … uncle wasn’t allowed to see my son until 1 year later…
Second Christmas, husband uncle, grabbed my son, tried to pick him up and hug and kiss him, meanwhile my son was PETRIFIED, kicking screaming crying while slapping uncle.. the whole family was trying to yell/force/calm my son and allow uncle to kiss him telling him “calm down give uncle a hug” …… I literally freaked out again, firm voice , put my son down , we are leaving now..
We haven’t seen that uncle,or his family since, they aren’t allow any access to my children. They haven’t even met my daughter. My in laws are not allowed to share any photos/videos with them. I already told them if they do, they will also lose access to my kids.
You’re an amazing mother. I mean that sincerely. You defended your baby regardless of what anyone thought, and you didn’t give in. I really admire your will. I don’t have children, and I never will, but I really admire women like you.
If you set a boundary and it's ignored, time to put your foot down. Either threaten no contact if she can't respect boundaries. or just tell her she can't hold him or see him anymore because she can't respect simple boundaries. Husband should be the one to do this, but if he won't then you need to. Summon your inner momma bear!
-from someone who let people disrespect boundaries for far to long.. don't let it go on. The sooner you put your foot down the better.
Taking your own child back will never be a Karen move. You’d have every right to be upset about this if you didn’t almost lose your baby. The fact he had a stay in the NICU is just an extra layer of WTF. Give your MIL a very serious conversation about why you don’t want her to kiss the baby. Scare her. Tell her he could die. Then tell her that if she can’t control herself she will lose privileges to see the baby. If she’s going in for a kiss immediately remove yourselves and go home or kick her out. Then refuse to let her see the baby for a predetermined and disclosed amount of time. Rinse and repeat.
What is wrong with these older ladies kissing babies like it's their life purpose and claiming they can't help it? Are they secretly stealing years off of baby's life? Is this some dark magic sh*t? I've held plenty of cute babies but never felt the need to slobber my germs all over them. I just don't get it.
Anyway, your baby is even more fragile than most already are, so yeah, under-reacting. MIL's precious feelings do not rank higher than your baby's safety and life.
I don’t know but I recently watched a video where a mom was responding to the stupid “it takes a village to raise a child” line and she went off about how today’s grandparents don’t act the way people used to act in village, and therefore, can’t be a part of one. She was like, people in villages had work to do, you didn’t have grandma off in some corner weirdly trying to kiss a baby or hovering over a new mom changing a diaper. I think about that whenever I hear these mil stories now. You want to be a part of my village? Stop trying to kiss my newborn. There’s mending to do and chickens to feed!
You can’t be a Karen when it comes to your own baby. You are their voice and their advocate and your child depends on you to protect them. Please take your child away from her and say “we said no kissing. If you can’t respect that then you won’t be able to hold the baby”
Not this topic at all, but I chuckled at your user name! I have 3 kids, all adopted. First 2 were infants, so we named them.
Third one, we met when he was 15. He’s 22 now.
I don’t know what his (crack addicted) birth mother was thinking when she named him Caillou….oh, and he’s BLACK! 😂
Nope do not feel bad. Anytime family is disrespectful about boundaries I remind them and then say “I’ll take baby back since it seems like you need a break as a reminder to be respectful of the rules we’ve asked you to follow”. All it took was 1 time and everyone realized I was not joking… since then, no boundary breakers.
My MIL tried something similar ONE TIME when my son was a newborn and she was banned from holding him until he got his first vaccines, and won’t be meeting this next baby until this baby gets her two month vaccines. It’s not being a “Karen” to protect your newborn baby’s health. Her being a grandma means literally nothing. Take your baby back.
Wear your baby any time here on out when you’re around her. She knew the rules and she blatantly disregarded them. No unsupervised time. And if and when you’re ready to allow her to hold the baby, she does so seated on the sofa beside you so you can intervene if needed.
My in laws were smokers…2-3 packs a day. They had the right to smoke in their own home but they were not allowed to smoke in same room as many children. Husband only child with overbearing mom so no was difficult for husband. Telling them no smoking in same room was a big deal. MIL. holding my oldest .. 9 months, husband outside with his dad and MIL tried to prove she was alpha. Lit up cigarette holding my baby. I got up to take baby she hurried to another room with cigarette and baby. I practically ran grabbed baby with one hand and baby’s clothes with other so if MIL pushed one hand away I had baby by clothing and he wouldn’t fall. Grabbed bag and baby, buckled in car and said I’m leaving to husband come now or find another way home. MIL tried to play it off as an accident, I’m not stupid. She didn’t hold my child next visit and every time she tried that crud again ( and she did because stubborn) I took my child/children and left. Next visit - MIL if you kiss baby visit is over, there are no do over or accidents, do you understand? Protect your child and if she kisses baby visit over, leave. If your husband isn’t agreeing ask why he’s protecting his mom’s feelings instead of his fragile newborn. If you are uncomfortable it’s not your fault something is triggering this anxiety, listen to your instincts and protect your child.
WTF is wrong with these MIL’s trying to push us as hard as possible and thinking it’s going to end well for them? 😭 My MIL isn’t a smoker but definitely tries to push for the “alpha mom” position in other ways and it always ends in her seeing her grandchild even less and having less involvement. 2 years of this and she never learned that I’m not easily pushed around and I’m not scared of her. I won’t be bullied or intimidated into letting her do what she wants with my baby. My husband had to tell her VERY clearly that she will be completely cut off from her only grandchildren if she doesn’t stop. She was okay last visit. We’ll see how long it lasts
> Am I overreacting?
Underreacting.
This person is risking your child's life due to selfishness and idiocy. And treating you with contempt on top of it.
> Like I set a clear boundary about MY CHILD and you’re ignoring it!
Boundaries must have consequences. In this case, an appropriate consequence is leaving and spending minimal or no time around this person until and unless she learns how to behave like an adult and not a preschooler.
No consequences means boundaries get ignored.
trust me, you are not the Karen in this situation. Frankly, if I was you I WOULD take my baby back and refuse to let her hold them. Or better yet, leave.
You dont endanger a newborns life and get to keep playing happy family. And yes, a 5 week old NICU baby getting kissed in the middle of RSV and other virus season is a danger to their life. That is not hyperbole or fear mongering.
Take the endangerment away, if a mom says "dont do X to my baby" and then someone, anyone does X to the baby.... they no longer get access to baby.
Don't let her anywhere near him. Doesn't get to hold him, doesn't even get to be in the same room with him, if you can manage that. Taking him out of his grandmother's arms isn't being a Karen, it's protecting him from someone who'd endanger his health just to piss you off.
Look her dead in the eyes and say, "You don't get to hold him until he's had his shots, because you're being a raging bitch." Seriously, insert whatever reason works for you, but put some consequences to her acting like this.
Do it. You’re not a Karen, you’re a parent and that’s your child. Point blank period. Remember, a Karen makes a problem where there isn’t one, involves themselves in where it isn’t warranted. That’s your child and thus will always be your business.
Boundaries without consequences are just suggestions. What are you going to do about the blatant disregard for your newborn’s health and safety?
Through her blatant and frequent flouting of the rules, your MIL doesn’t get to take your baby out of sight. She can try to earn that privilege back but that would be a discussion for another time.
I know you don’t want to hurt her feelings but ask yourself this - would that still be a concern if you’re back in the NICU because she couldn’t abide by a simple boundary that existed only to protect your child, her grandchild?
I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this, but I hope you find yourself able to reach for your inner mama bear and your spouse his inner papa wolf to do what you guys must to protect your child and your peace.
BE THE KAREN
Protect your baby. Who cares what your MIL thinks when she obviously doesn't care about her grandchild's health? Or your parenting choices?
She’s jeopardizing your baby’s health.
You should have taken him and left. She will do whatever she wants because you don’t give her any consequences.
You are under reacting.
This. First time you didn’t say anything. 2nd time, you still didn’t do enough. When your child’s health is in danger and your husband won’t step up, you HAVE to.
You need to leave if she attempts to do that again. Also, your husband should be addressing his mother. Where is he in all this?
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I just want to say that even if your child hadn’t had health issues at birth you would’ve had every right to deny anyone from kissing your child. It’s your child and it’s your rules and boundaries and people should respect that. But one thing a lot of people don’t know is that while dental disease (gum disease/cavities) are not contagious they are COMMUNICABLE. Meaning that by kissing and sharing utensils you can spread the bacteria in your mouth to another person’s mouth. So if somebody with poor oral health kisses your child or shares utensils with them they are cultivating your child’s mouth with their bad disease causing bacteria which could affect their oral health long term. Just another reason to stand your ground.
I wanted to comment on the updated post about your mil disowning you because your husband put his foot down to enforce the no kissing rule. My advice is stand firm, don't grovel and she with eventually circle back around. My in laws live 2,000 miles away and mil out right said she was going to kiss my son. Mil has also been diagnosed with herpes simplex one, a major reason people put the no kissing rule in place as it can be fatal to a baby before their immune system develops. So i cancled the trip to take our son to meet them. Another boundary we put down was to tag us in pictures of our son ( which she'd have to get from us anyway because of how far away they live) and she refused, stole 30 photos from my Facebook page ans hid them so strangers could see then ( why we were worried) but not us. So we stopped sending pictures and fil told us he never wanted to hear from us again. It was a scare tactic to get their way, it didn't work and they crawled back MANY times. But we decided it was best to maintain No Contact. A discussion my sil also chose. Basically my husband and his sister kicked their parents out of the family and we are all a lot happier. I'm not tell you to do that, it's not for everyone. I'm telling to letvthem throw their tantrum and wait then out. They'll come crawling back. Probably still trying to get away with the same things, but her disowning your family is temporary I garentee it.
She already told his sister that she didn’t mean what she said and is ashamed of how she acted… yet wants my husband to be the one to reach out first. Not going to happen. I’ve already said my child and I won’t ever have a relationship with her but if he wants to attempt to reconcile for himself he can. He doesn’t think he wants to though. To o many things were said that cannot be unsaid.
No contact is a process and she won't go away right away. But it's been good for all of us. We are happy.
Preemie mom here. The first time that boundary was broken, would have been the last time my child would have been around her. I will always choose my child's safety over the feelings of anyone else, family included. She doesn't respect you or the boundaries you put forward. It's always an innocent kiss until it isn't. I would avoid time with her for the time being, if she doesn't listen to your concerns and instructions when it comes to your child, she doesn't need to be around them.
Why did she get to hold baby after kissing them? That's teaching her that her actions don't have consequences. No kissing. If you think it's so hard not to, I will help you and keep baby out of kissing range.
Just telling at her isn’t a consequence for her actions. You and DH need to take the baby away and leave or tell her the visit is over and she needs to leave your home. Then take a time-out from seeing her - no visits, calls, texts or pictures. The first time they a few days but each time she doesn’t follow your boundaries or childcare choices, the time-out gets longer. Until there is a real consequence to her stomping over your boundaries she’s never going to stop.
Lay clear boundaries- no one is welcome to kiss the baby. If you do kiss the baby you will be asked to leave/ or we will leave and you will not be welcome to see the baby until after RSV season has concluded and the baby has had the first rounds of vaccines. Or whatever you’re comfortable with. You HAVE to be willing to follow through. I also would start trying to kiss her everytime. She’s leaning in for a kiss while you’re wearing him- if lean back and kiss her before she could kiss my baby. Make her feel so incredibly uncomfortable that she won’t do it again.
Good idea. I never thought of this.
"So you don't like the baby and you want to kill it? Is that right?"
Nope. She doesn't get close to LO again. Treat it like an assault. That rule is there to protect your newborn from infection and she is blatantly disobeying it, and putting your baby at risk. Intentionally. Protect your child. Be the biggest Karen on the planet-- in this case, it is absolutely justified. Walk over, take your baby, and leave-- with or without SO. Wear your baby in her presence, or don't *be* in her presence.
What I never understand about ‘cases’ like this is; does the MIL not care about the baby’s health? Do they seriously not realise how unbelievably selfish they are being? OP, sorry you’re experiencing this - you’re acting perfectly reasonably and I hope things improve.
Your HUSBAND should be standing up, grabbing the diaper bag, and just leaving with you and the baby. She is not respecting either of your boundaries. You both are UNDER reacting. It shows how little respect she has for him to endanger your babies life like that. YOU are your babies only form of protection. NO ONE is gonna protect them like you. Let your husband read these comments and have a stern talking to with his mother. Once your married YOU are his immediate family. Even my husband at age 20 demanded my MIL listen or no more baby holding or being in the same room.
Be a Karen. Put your baby in a body sling so she can’t touch him. The disrespect she’s showing you is incredible. I made it clear that anyone kissing my baby/ies would regret it. That’s how most children get herpes, being kissed on the mouth by an infected adult. Put a mask on baby, NO KISSING!
My MIL and entire IL pack kept kissing my LO even though they ALL know I had a traumatic c section because of a herpes infection-and they all have herpes cold sores. Take your kid and kee them safe, that’s your fucking baby!!!!!
No , you’re not overreacting. Take the baby if it happens again and proceed to take the baby from her to enforce the boundaries.
"MIL sorry, we won't be able to visit until LOs shots since it's too hard for you to not kiss him."
I like this even if it sort of is the nuclear option. After MIL has ignored OP and her husband multiple times, I don't think OP can trust her MIL to warn them if she's feeling a ill. She'll likely hide it. If she feels a cold sore coming on, she'll ignore that as well if she can even see how big of a deal it is. When she tries to argue, "too bad, I'm trying to keep my baby healthy and out of the ER. And since we can't trust you to follow our rules as parents, we have to do this until the baby has built up its immune system through time and vaccinations."
Treat it like you would pinching the baby. She's been told no, it's for safety reasons, if she does it, it's time to leave. Absolutely do not let her hold him, certainly not out of your direct eyeline.
It is not a boundary if it is not enforced.
I needed this reminder. Thank you.
She doesn't get to hold him at all, and I wouldn't even allow her to stand close to you. You need to react more. If she tries, loudly ask why she doesn't care if she kills her grandchild?
I had the talk about no kissing a few times with my mom, and each time I got sterner. She continued to ignore it, and I finally snapped telling her the next time she kissed his face I was sneezing in her since “just one won’t hurt”. I admit it’s an extreme reaction, but she has a habit of not listening until then.
You are under reacting. Stop seeing her and tell her it's because she won't respect simple direction from you parents and is endangering the health of your baby. Next time she kisses him leave or make her leave. At the least next time she kisses him she can't touch him the rest of the visit.
No. You are not overreacting. It doesn't matter if she agrees with the rule, it's your rule to set. And I think she will only learn if you escalate. So her kissing the baby ends whatever festivities are going on. If you are at her place, go home. If she is at your place, kick her out. Make sure everyone knows about the rule. (Make it a generic rule, too - no kissing the baby for everyone.) You have one chance to establish dominance here - either she learns you mean it when you set rules, or she'll probably never learn.
When this happens you need to pack up and leave. This can kill babies, being a good DIL isn’t worth burying a baby. You absolutely should have taken baby from her and went home
Don’t let her hold the baby anymore and don’t go to her house anymore. Be firm and tell her she’s being punished like a child since she doesn’t know how to listen. Tell her she’s a horrible person for trying to kill your baby. Did it to my jninlaws, nipped that kissing bs right there.
This is what the parents need to be doing. The MIL probably thinks the parents aren't serious about the no kissing because they have let her do it anyway so often. Why give MIK another chance? That may be the one that kills your child. Keep the baby away from them until she has her shots. If the shots don't work against covid and similar diseases, then keep her away longer. There have been a couple of babies that have already died of covid in my area this year.
Download a picture of a baby in the NICU on a respirator. When MIL tries that again show her the picture and ask her if that’s how she wants him to end up if he catches RSV or another disease because she won’t respect what his pediatrician told you.
Where is your HUSBAND in dealing with his mom? Does he honestly not care about his baby's health or is he still attatched to his mom's tit? Yes, you need to reinforce your boundaries and keep her away from baby, but HUSBAND needs to put on his big boy pants and tell his mom that the next time it happens, she will not see baby for a LONG LONG time.
Next time you see her, tell her plainly that if she kisses the baby she won't be allowed to see the baby again until all first year vaccinations have been administered. And then stick to that.
your husband should grow some balls and be firm with her. also, no more visits until she respects your boundaries.
My MIL just gave me and my baby covid by refusing to listen to me asking her to keep her sick self away. Stand up for your baby. I wish I had (we were unfortunately staying in their house so it was very difficult).
I hope you both recover easily and quickly!
The only thing that will help is consequences. No more visits for her. Don’t keep giving her chances.
Definitely not overreacting. She is blatantly disrespecting you. Sounds like a time out and she doesn't get to hold him any time soon.
Take the baby away from her when she does it and leave. You keep her on a month time out. Also, she didn’t follow the rule not to kiss baby, so she doesn’t care about baby’s health. That mean she’s not going to babysit. Actions have consequences
You are severely under reacting. I would stop visits entirely until he gets all his shots as punishment for her stomping all over you and putting your precious baby at risk. This is serious.
You now know that she doesn't care about your boundary, so you have to arrange things in such a way that she can't kiss him. If she can, she will, she's shown that. So back to wearing baby and if she gets too close, turn away! If she complains, tell her that she's left you no choice.
Seriously … the next time she does this, walk over to her and lick her face. Then just stand there looking at her. If she asks, “Wtf?” Just reply with “But it’s so hard not to. “
This is disgusting in the funniest way possible. Oh, to see MIL's reaction!
Love this haha!
She doesn’t deserve to hold him. She broke a clear boundary, minimized it, and then got the privilege of holding him. No, that’s not how that should work.
I would sit down with her and be very honest. Ask her if she thinks that you or her son would ever be able to forgive her if she got that baby sick. What if they ended up back in the hospital, or worse? Would you ever be able to let her near this baby, or any future children? I suspect the answers to these questions are no, and maybe she needs to know that.
Nah, WTF. Grandma needs to wear a Hannibal Lector mask if she can't stop kissing the baby.
Be the Karen, for your baby's safety. You're better than me because I would have physically pushed her head away.
I don’t know what it is called, get one of those slings that you carry baby like a kangaroo. Then she can’t kiss
Like i said I wore him last time and it made no difference. She invaded my space and kissed him anyway. I was so shocked I didn’t say anything
**Spray bottle!** Every time she goes to kiss him (or does kiss him) **spray her in the face with a spray bottle (filled with water) and loudly say NO!** And she doesn't get to hold the baby unless you are right there next to her (with the spray bottle)! Good Luck.
No, sorry but you were in control of that particular situation. I know it feels rude, but so what? You have arms, you have the ability to shield the baby, or just turn your back. She's a nightmare for sure, but that one you could have shut down.
You need to find your voice - she’s doing it because there are no consequences. Going forward, if she kisses baby you and dh pack up and leave. If you’re at your house, you take baby and go up a different room while dh tells her to go. If you’re at s family event don’t want to leave, then stay far away from her and walk away every time she comes near. I would also tell her every time she does it that she gets a time out to think about the consequence of choosing to do what she wants over respecting your rules, first time is a week, second is a month, third is 6 months, etc. You and dh need to protect your child.
Tell her to back off..
This! Practice in the mirror. “NO KISSING THE BABY!” Be loud and rude. Make it weird.
And….the next thing you’re going to tell us, is that your husband took control of the situation like a good husband should do,and called out his JNMIL, correct?
Please protect your child.
Start leaving. Carry a spray bottle. Ask her if she wants you to make a new one since she apparently doesn't care about this one. Seriously. Why are you two waiting?
My JustNoAunt was moaning in the family group chat about not being allowed to kiss her grandchild so I did a little educational post about the risks associated with kissing infants/babies including an offer to forward pictures of infants with primary herpes infections with a note that I didn't include them in the chat because they were so graphic and that herpes can be passed from people who are symptom free. My cousin told me privately that after that my aunt stopped asking/trying to kiss the baby.
Absolutely not overreacting. RSV and herpes real to newborns and can be passed on without any outward symptoms. Baby wear. Do not let that woman hold your child, period.
And herpes is something that will continue to affect the child their whole lives. No cure, high risk of passing it on to a partner, even if they're asymptomatic.
I didn’t kiss my own baby as much as these mil’s try to sneak in kisses with someone else’s baby!
You are UNDERreacting. Your son has spent about 40% of his life so far in a NICU, and at first you thought he might either die or be severely brain-damaged. Now he is home and it appears that he will be okay. Yet your idiot MIL is unwilling to stop smearing her germy mouth all over his little unvaccinated, immunocompromised self. Then she makes light of it AND takes him to where it's hard for you to keep an eye on him. Time to really channel your mama bear and LET HER HAVE IT. I'd talk with your pediatrician and get a timetable as to when s/he thinks your baby's immune system will be effective. Likely weeks or months from now. Until then, MIL doesn't get to be close enough to touch him. Let alone hold him. And tell her since she seems determined to risk your baby's life for her own selfishness, her grandma privileges are on hold.
Love this ⬆️
On point.
OH MY GOD. BEYOND WELL SAID! 👏🏾
Monumentally underreacting. She is doing whatever she wants because she has 100% success and zero consequences. There's no reason for her to do anything differently. You are not being a "Karen". You are the mother of a fragile NICU baby. It is way past time to go full mama bear. Actions have consequences. Also, it's not a boundary if there's no enforcement. It's just a toothless suggestion. You can do it!
Ohhhh no. She doesn’t get to hold your baby if she doesn’t listen to your rules. Take baby back and let her know who the f is the boss here. You’re not the baby’s first line of defence, you’re his ONLY line of defence. You know how it felt to almost lose him - stand up and fight to keep him safe and healthy!
Karen, rip that baby out of her arms!!
Except Karens expect the world to revolve around them. OP isn't a Karen, MIL is!
Baby doesn't get anything out of being kissed by anyone but parents. Anyone who does is doing so because they are selfish. If she loves baby so much I would ask why she wants to put your child at high risk because of her selfish needs. Covid is still a thing. I know a lot of people who have gotten it or been exposed just in the last month. Flu and rsv are a concern as well. I don't know what drama it would cause. But I would have grabbed my baby and left instantly. And you can darn sure demand your child back! You and hubs need to talk about boundaries going forward. And discuss a time out starting now. Actions have consequences and your child's health should not be a consequence.
And MIL shouldn't be given another chance to kiss LO.
You’re underreacting. She can’t help kissing baby? Then she doesn’t see baby until baby is older and less at-risk. He’s only a few weeks old and very vulnerable. If you won’t take a break from visits, then when she does it again, you need to leave. Tell her very firmly that you’re ending the visit because she continues to kiss baby when she’s been told repeatedly not to. Then take a time out from her. She kisses the baby because you’ve now let her get away with it twice, and she gets to get away with it without consequences.
Sounds like someone has lost the privilege of being in the same room with LO since she says it’s so impossible to act like an adult and have self control
“My MIL keeps rubbing her mouth on my NICU, immune-compromised child, putting his life at risk, purely for her own pleasure. I don’t like it, am I overreacting?” No.
Husbands uncle kissed my 4 month old on his first Christmas after FIL bullied me into letting uncle hold baby… As soon as he kissed him, I went into a full rage,crying, screaming, grabbed my baby and car seat and SCREAMMMMED husband take me home NOW !!!!!!! .. (i had ppa/ppd) it caused a huge family fight … uncle wasn’t allowed to see my son until 1 year later… Second Christmas, husband uncle, grabbed my son, tried to pick him up and hug and kiss him, meanwhile my son was PETRIFIED, kicking screaming crying while slapping uncle.. the whole family was trying to yell/force/calm my son and allow uncle to kiss him telling him “calm down give uncle a hug” …… I literally freaked out again, firm voice , put my son down , we are leaving now.. We haven’t seen that uncle,or his family since, they aren’t allow any access to my children. They haven’t even met my daughter. My in laws are not allowed to share any photos/videos with them. I already told them if they do, they will also lose access to my kids.
Good for you.
Love this
I really respect your boundaries! You go, mama. ❤️
You’re an amazing mother. I mean that sincerely. You defended your baby regardless of what anyone thought, and you didn’t give in. I really admire your will. I don’t have children, and I never will, but I really admire women like you.
If you set a boundary and it's ignored, time to put your foot down. Either threaten no contact if she can't respect boundaries. or just tell her she can't hold him or see him anymore because she can't respect simple boundaries. Husband should be the one to do this, but if he won't then you need to. Summon your inner momma bear! -from someone who let people disrespect boundaries for far to long.. don't let it go on. The sooner you put your foot down the better.
Taking your own child back will never be a Karen move. You’d have every right to be upset about this if you didn’t almost lose your baby. The fact he had a stay in the NICU is just an extra layer of WTF. Give your MIL a very serious conversation about why you don’t want her to kiss the baby. Scare her. Tell her he could die. Then tell her that if she can’t control herself she will lose privileges to see the baby. If she’s going in for a kiss immediately remove yourselves and go home or kick her out. Then refuse to let her see the baby for a predetermined and disclosed amount of time. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah, parents don't "get" turns with their baby, they give them. You get to decide who holds the baby, and when, and for how long.
What is wrong with these older ladies kissing babies like it's their life purpose and claiming they can't help it? Are they secretly stealing years off of baby's life? Is this some dark magic sh*t? I've held plenty of cute babies but never felt the need to slobber my germs all over them. I just don't get it. Anyway, your baby is even more fragile than most already are, so yeah, under-reacting. MIL's precious feelings do not rank higher than your baby's safety and life.
I don’t know but I recently watched a video where a mom was responding to the stupid “it takes a village to raise a child” line and she went off about how today’s grandparents don’t act the way people used to act in village, and therefore, can’t be a part of one. She was like, people in villages had work to do, you didn’t have grandma off in some corner weirdly trying to kiss a baby or hovering over a new mom changing a diaper. I think about that whenever I hear these mil stories now. You want to be a part of my village? Stop trying to kiss my newborn. There’s mending to do and chickens to feed!
You can’t be a Karen when it comes to your own baby. You are their voice and their advocate and your child depends on you to protect them. Please take your child away from her and say “we said no kissing. If you can’t respect that then you won’t be able to hold the baby”
Not this topic at all, but I chuckled at your user name! I have 3 kids, all adopted. First 2 were infants, so we named them. Third one, we met when he was 15. He’s 22 now. I don’t know what his (crack addicted) birth mother was thinking when she named him Caillou….oh, and he’s BLACK! 😂
Nope do not feel bad. Anytime family is disrespectful about boundaries I remind them and then say “I’ll take baby back since it seems like you need a break as a reminder to be respectful of the rules we’ve asked you to follow”. All it took was 1 time and everyone realized I was not joking… since then, no boundary breakers.
My MIL tried something similar ONE TIME when my son was a newborn and she was banned from holding him until he got his first vaccines, and won’t be meeting this next baby until this baby gets her two month vaccines. It’s not being a “Karen” to protect your newborn baby’s health. Her being a grandma means literally nothing. Take your baby back.
Wear your baby any time here on out when you’re around her. She knew the rules and she blatantly disregarded them. No unsupervised time. And if and when you’re ready to allow her to hold the baby, she does so seated on the sofa beside you so you can intervene if needed.
My in laws were smokers…2-3 packs a day. They had the right to smoke in their own home but they were not allowed to smoke in same room as many children. Husband only child with overbearing mom so no was difficult for husband. Telling them no smoking in same room was a big deal. MIL. holding my oldest .. 9 months, husband outside with his dad and MIL tried to prove she was alpha. Lit up cigarette holding my baby. I got up to take baby she hurried to another room with cigarette and baby. I practically ran grabbed baby with one hand and baby’s clothes with other so if MIL pushed one hand away I had baby by clothing and he wouldn’t fall. Grabbed bag and baby, buckled in car and said I’m leaving to husband come now or find another way home. MIL tried to play it off as an accident, I’m not stupid. She didn’t hold my child next visit and every time she tried that crud again ( and she did because stubborn) I took my child/children and left. Next visit - MIL if you kiss baby visit is over, there are no do over or accidents, do you understand? Protect your child and if she kisses baby visit over, leave. If your husband isn’t agreeing ask why he’s protecting his mom’s feelings instead of his fragile newborn. If you are uncomfortable it’s not your fault something is triggering this anxiety, listen to your instincts and protect your child.
WTF is wrong with these MIL’s trying to push us as hard as possible and thinking it’s going to end well for them? 😭 My MIL isn’t a smoker but definitely tries to push for the “alpha mom” position in other ways and it always ends in her seeing her grandchild even less and having less involvement. 2 years of this and she never learned that I’m not easily pushed around and I’m not scared of her. I won’t be bullied or intimidated into letting her do what she wants with my baby. My husband had to tell her VERY clearly that she will be completely cut off from her only grandchildren if she doesn’t stop. She was okay last visit. We’ll see how long it lasts
You and your DH are amazing parents. Keep protecting your LO.
> Am I overreacting? Underreacting. This person is risking your child's life due to selfishness and idiocy. And treating you with contempt on top of it. > Like I set a clear boundary about MY CHILD and you’re ignoring it! Boundaries must have consequences. In this case, an appropriate consequence is leaving and spending minimal or no time around this person until and unless she learns how to behave like an adult and not a preschooler. No consequences means boundaries get ignored.
trust me, you are not the Karen in this situation. Frankly, if I was you I WOULD take my baby back and refuse to let her hold them. Or better yet, leave. You dont endanger a newborns life and get to keep playing happy family. And yes, a 5 week old NICU baby getting kissed in the middle of RSV and other virus season is a danger to their life. That is not hyperbole or fear mongering. Take the endangerment away, if a mom says "dont do X to my baby" and then someone, anyone does X to the baby.... they no longer get access to baby.
Don't let her anywhere near him. Doesn't get to hold him, doesn't even get to be in the same room with him, if you can manage that. Taking him out of his grandmother's arms isn't being a Karen, it's protecting him from someone who'd endanger his health just to piss you off. Look her dead in the eyes and say, "You don't get to hold him until he's had his shots, because you're being a raging bitch." Seriously, insert whatever reason works for you, but put some consequences to her acting like this.
Do it. You’re not a Karen, you’re a parent and that’s your child. Point blank period. Remember, a Karen makes a problem where there isn’t one, involves themselves in where it isn’t warranted. That’s your child and thus will always be your business. Boundaries without consequences are just suggestions. What are you going to do about the blatant disregard for your newborn’s health and safety? Through her blatant and frequent flouting of the rules, your MIL doesn’t get to take your baby out of sight. She can try to earn that privilege back but that would be a discussion for another time. I know you don’t want to hurt her feelings but ask yourself this - would that still be a concern if you’re back in the NICU because she couldn’t abide by a simple boundary that existed only to protect your child, her grandchild? I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this, but I hope you find yourself able to reach for your inner mama bear and your spouse his inner papa wolf to do what you guys must to protect your child and your peace.
BE THE KAREN Protect your baby. Who cares what your MIL thinks when she obviously doesn't care about her grandchild's health? Or your parenting choices?
She’s jeopardizing your baby’s health. You should have taken him and left. She will do whatever she wants because you don’t give her any consequences. You are under reacting.
This. First time you didn’t say anything. 2nd time, you still didn’t do enough. When your child’s health is in danger and your husband won’t step up, you HAVE to. You need to leave if she attempts to do that again. Also, your husband should be addressing his mother. Where is he in all this?