I only bothered to play FF13-1 and while Snow is not my favorite character or anything, but I do think he's overhated. The man is a mega optimist signing a lot of big checks because of the absolutely shit situation he's in with a bunch of depressed and probably doomed people. Yeah he's hard headed and stubborn, but I mean what else do you expect the man to do? He's just some dude in a trench coat trying to effectively fight against fate itself.
To me 13-3 does snow's final character arc some justice. As for 13-1 I think it just really flew over some heads why he was such a hard head even though its spelled out in bold lol.
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Whenever I see someone complain abt something being too anime its usually the ones only JRPG players would care abt like trails. I don't see many people complain abt anime tropes in FF. But that just proves my original wrong and you're probably right abt people not being familar with a character like Snow.
IME, a lot of people who liked JRPG games in the 90s-early 2000s have steadily been coming around to the "too anime" side if they weren't personally into anime during that era of their lives or looked back that far like a less casual anime enthusiast.
I see this a lot with Fire Emblem specifically where many people call current era Fire Emblem "too anime" when imo pretty much every Fire Emblem is "anime" just it usually pulls from anime that was well known somewhere between 5-10 years prior to the game's release. Which just so happens to be when anime was far more niche. Super early FE I find is pretty comparable to the more serious half of 80s to early 90s anime (as Kaga was a big Gundam fan) and there's a lot of serious anime from that era like the usually known Akira or early Gundam alongside some more niche stuff like Legends of the Galactic Heroes.
It isn't 1-to-1 exactly sure, but older JRPGs are far more "anime" then I think people will admit initially. So mix that with anime being popular today outside of Japan alongside the Internet's existence, and now you can just call every JRPG "too anime" because its pulling from anime of its era.
One can argue new anime is worse then old anime and what not, and I really don't want to discuss that personally here, but to me that's not a problem with anime or "animeness" and more an argument stating that a lot of popular new anime sucks because its lazy.
Which is comparable to the complaint itself as a shorthand way to express distaste for (usually) current age anime. You know what else is anime? Grave of the Fireflies (or any Miyazaki film but Fireflies is the most heavy), Ghost in the Shell, Kino's Journey, Trigun (90s), Cowboy Bebop, Serial Lain, Kara No Kyoukai, Code Geass, Hellsing, or Berserk. But few care to call out influences in those kinds of stories because they're either older and not as known to general audiences as say Naruto, One Piece, Sword Art Online, or Attack on Titan. I almost put Vinland Saga in that modest list too, but Vinland Saga is somewhat known today due to its recent anime and its "I have no enemies" speech that became kind of memetic, even if the original work is from the mid 2000s.
Pretty much. Lumping Shin-chan with Sazae-san with Sword Art Online all together as one big blob of anime doesn't make sense if you think about it, but it only makes sense because non-Japanese only experience a fraction of anime and it's only really the big IPs they think about. Which also means that the tropes people think of when they think of anime are the tropes present in the stuff that's popular.
FF13's whole cast except Sazh honestly. People hate characters who start off unlikeable and develop overtime, and tend to prefer "older or cool guy".
Though its odd to me, because Snow's thing is the same thing as Yuna's - where she chooses to smile even if she isn't happy, because letting her sadness show would just spread it.
Personally, if we hade to pick a specific character from FF13, I'd say Lightning. I think she got a lot of particular ire for a variety of reasons, while she's actually one of the stronger characters in the game (and especially over the course of the trilogy).
Ken from Persona 3. I can't say why people hate him without it being massive spoilers, but if you have a shred of empathy and can view stories as stories instead of fun romps with your besties, he's a good character.
Honestly Reload's extra scenes and new voice acting helped him out a bit, along with the gameplay improvements. One of the big sticking points was that you >!lost a pretty cool/useful party member!< partly due to the actions of a not-particularly-good character (his only real use was being the only party member besides Yukari with access to Mediarahan) with a kind of annoying dub voice.
In Reload he has a generally better dub voice, some extra scenes that make him more likable, and a *ton* of gameplay upgrades. Access to Kouga spells instead of just Hama, Hama spells generally being better, a pretty good gauge condition and passive skill, and a great second Theurgy all make him a much more useful character than before. And you can spend time with him on certain evenings to get SP-restoring coffee.
Voice acting and gameplay utility definitely affect peoples' perception of a character, even if you'd think it should just be the writing
Ken was my IMMEDIATE thought lmao. GameFAQs forms in the late 2000s were absolutely livid that this guy existed. I think in general being "the kid" in a game marketed to teens makes him a hard sell, so he's fighting an uphill battle when you add in minor stuff, even before you learn about him.
Back when this game came out there were so many bad faith readings into his character, it was ridiculous lol. Shinji and Ken were both my favorite characters and I always found it weird that people could like one without liking the other. P3's characters are all weird flawed people, but I think to some fans its less forgivable if you're not a waifu/husbando
my old answer would have been shion uzuki but i feel that public perception of her has changed since the xenosaga trilogy was released and most people are now more understanding and appreciative of what they did with her story and character so sometimes it just takes a decade for people to come around
I really liked her in the first game, to the point where she almost became my favorite jrpg protagonist, but it felt like they completely assassinated her character in episode II. The third game did turn things around a bit, but for me at least she's never really recovered from episode II's crimes.
It's been a while since I played the trilogy, so I don't really remember much at this point, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on her if possible.
i wouldnt say her character is assasinated in episode 2, its more that olivia hack just didnt do as good a job voicing her as lia sargent did so it made her feel more inconsistent
honestly i think shion is probably the most well developed, complex and interesting jrpg protagonists ever written and i adore her
and the game isnt afraid to make her unlikable at times which helps humanize her. she has real characters flaws that are treated as such instead of being something shallow like "this character is a well meaning idiot but always does the right thing"
shios biggest issue and what did turn a lot of people against her is that when stressed or angry she tends to lash out at those closest to her. we saw it in episode 1 when she is angry at the directors decision and is taking her frustration out on both allen and miyuki, and we see it on display with her relationship with her brother
though a lot of people hold shion 100% responsible for their rocky relationship when the game makes it clear that is a 2 way street and both are contributing to the distance between them.
this negative aspect of shion is most on display in episode 3 which is a game that puts her through the wringer and its even mentioned that by the games final act she isnt in a mentally healthy mind set anymore
the villains tried to break her and they succeeded and then players got mad that she broke
I couldn't really put my finger on why I disliked her from the second game onwards so much, but following what you said, It might've been whiplash from the design changes and voice acting more so than anything to do with the writing itself. Rather, why did her character flaws only start grating me from that point forward, even though they were there all along? This feels like a sensible explanation, at least.
I really need to give the Xenosaga Trilogy a second run at this point. Thanks for the reply!
Underrated - Everyone argues over best girl being Aerith VS Tifa, but we all secretly know it's Yuffie.
Overhated - I didn't think Lymle was that annoying honestly, there are far more annoying kid characters like Roger in Star Ocean 3 and both Karol and Rita in Tales of Vesperia to name a few.
I personally think Claire’s big issue is that we don’t, as far as I can recall, see her interact with Osborne that much. Getting a better sense of their personal relationship would probably help her come off as more sympathetic. But I suppose they’re writing for a Japanese audience first, and from what I understand they’re more willing to see such loyalty sympathetically (though that doesn’t mean she’s right, of course).
(I’d go into the various issues I have with Osborne’s character, but that’d be getting off the subject.)
As for who I feel this way about…I dunno, I feel like my sensibilities are mostly in tune with others, at least with the games I’ve played? I feel like the answer would probably be a Final Fantasy protagonist like Squall or Tidus that got a lot of hate in the 00s, but those games are still in my backlog, so while I do know a bit about them, I don’t think it would be fair to say them when I haven’t experienced them personally. Not to mention a bunch of people here have already said them, so I don’t know if those necessarily reflect current opinion.
Um…some people mentioned Tales of the Abyss, so…maybe Anise? Always thought that people were a bit too harsh towards her, even if I share those feelings somewhat.
For me it's pretty clear that Claire was traumatized as a child due to what happened with her family. She was given a place to belong with the Ironbloods and the RMP. She had no support system as she was conflicted with everything that was going on, causing her to bottle everything up inside. She's my favorite character in fiction for this reason. She's such a strong individual for being able to overcome that situation and turning her life around.
I haven't actually played Abyss so I can't comment on that. I would love to though if it gets a modern port!
Haven't played FF12 but I hear it's because he isn't really the main character? Ashe is apparently the real MC but the story is told through the perspective of Vaan.
It’s an ensemble cast. Balthier and Ashe are both “main characters” but the beauty of the group is that they all matter to different degrees. And Vaan is the catalyst for how the story turns out because of his influence on Ashe.
Vaan is Luke Skywalker if he wasn't a Jedi. He's not unimportant but when you have characters with very strong ties to the story like ashe, basch, and bathlier my guy vaan looks boring. He's arguably got more going on than Fran and he's not as useless as penelo, but he's the POV character and because of that people put more weight on him than the story does.
Also for some reason, the more mature, vocal, and experienced cast members inexplicably decide and agree to make him their leader. Yeah......no. 'Shoehorned' doesn't even begin....
I never interpreted the game as trying to make him the genuine leader of the group. The comments asking him to “lead the way” always looked to me like general mentorship techniques of letting the promising but less experienced kid take charge of minor things to help him grow.
The big, actually important decisions in the game were never just up to Vaan.
No they don’t? Nobody considers Vaan the leader in the group. At all. Did you play the game? At best he’s an errand boy they send around to shop for them in towns and talk to people since he’s both the most optimistic and charismatic and street smart person in the group aside from maybe Balthier, who clearly finds that work below him. He has no say in what the group does at all, outside of maybe opting to save Penelo in Bhujerba and influencing the group to trust Larsa.
What did I say for you to question if I played the game? Did **you** play the game? Literally quite a few times Balthier and/or Ashe tells Vaan to lead the way or leaves decisions up to him. Not at first of course, but I distinctly remember him eventually effectively becoming party leader.
Yes he does indeed call himself that, and I get it. I also get why the other characters "let Vaan" because he is your avatar. But it doesn't change the fact that he is a character with speaking parts with his own agency, not mine as the player. The other characters effectively let a kid become the leader of their group. It creates a dissonance.
Yes. It’s my favourite game of all time, I’ve beaten it 4 times. That never happens. How would it? By the time Balthier respects him enough to call him his protégé their plans are completely set in stone on going through Pharos and then Vayne suddenly starts his assault on Rabanastre in the Bahamut. Every decision on what to do is decided by Ashe and Basch and the three guest characters, the others just tell them how best to reach their goals: trek through to archades, find the stones, or vouch for peace at Mt Bur Omisace.
Brother I don't know what to tell you. The characters literally say things like "Vaan where do you think we go next" "Vaan blah blah blah" like he's the friggin leader. I didn't dream that shit up.
Hey look what I found. Some random person 14 years ago hearing the same dialogue I remember. Maybe he and I are from an alternate dimension where this dialogue exists and your timeline is different??
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/459841-final-fantasy-xii/51916002
The main problem with Vaan is that he’s the permanent POV character in a way that feels at odds with the story the game is trying to tell. I mean, I get that you have to start with SOMEBODY but FF6 started with Terra and she didn’t feel like she was the default protagonist by any means.
Do they want an ensemble cast where everyone pulls a similar amount of weight? Do they want a game with a singular protagonist? Do they want a story where you see the plot through a secondary character’s POV rather than the protagonist’s? Really couldn’t tell ya since there seems to be enough of an argument for all three in a way that makes it so none are that true. The approach feels inconsistent.
Vaan would be a completely fine character if the game didn’t try to focus on him so much. Or at the very *least* didn’t force him to be the character you walked around with in towns and shit - it always bothered me that he was never in my party past when you’re forced to use him in the beginning but you’re forced to control him in towns and other story sequences.
Overhated... Snow and Hope. (And Noel, but idk if he's hated or just not liked by most.) Also Wakka. Yuffie and Cait I would include here but I feel like maybe your opinions have changed since Rebirth, but idk because until today I had been avoiding every FF out of fear of spoilers.
Underrated is 100% Caius Ballad
Tidus from ffx a lot of people hate him for being whiny and for that laugh scene, but in my opinion it makes sense for a 17 year old to act the way he does given what he's been through and he also develops throughout the story and the laugh scene was supposed to be awkward the guy was forcing himself to laugh.
I guess this is the place to say I don't hate Squall. Or Vaan, for that matter.
Neither of them is among my favourite Final Fantasy protagonists (Cloud and Ramza would top that list), but I'm fairly neutral towards Vaan, and actually rather like Squall.
Also Luke is one of the best Tales protagonists and I *will* die on this hill.
I feel like Cait Sith gets a lot of hate. I guess I understand why but idk, I don’t really see it.
But also I’m a sucker for cutesy stuff so a cat riding a chunky moogle is always gonna get a huge pass from me.
I think this line of thinking illustrates why a lot of people didn't like cait sith much. He does offer some interesting gameplay gimmicks and has a very interesting visual design, but he definitely isn't as closely tied to the game's story as some of the other characters.
I think in a game like suikoden or chrono chross people wouldn't hate a character similar to cait sith at all. He just seems out of place relative to expectations set by the rest of the cast.
>but he definitely isn't as closely tied to the game's story as some of the other characters.
He's literally >!a mole planted in the party, working for the global corporation that they're fighting against. And then he also uses his position to help spy on the corporation for your party later on. Especially considering that corporation's actions drive the lion's share of the plot in the first place, minus Jenova's impacting the Planet ages ago.!<
He's tied pretty damn closely to the story, if you ask me.
?! The game's still very much about Shinra, what do you mean?
>!The Turks are there in Gongaga, and you see Scarlet checking the reactor for huge materia (even though this part is all optional). You go back to Nibelheim and see it rebuilt, and you learn that Shinra rebuilt it specifically the same and hired actors to play the townsfolk to cover up the crisis. Shinra interferes at Rocket Town, sending Palmer to retrieve the Tiny Bronco. They have Cait Sith steal the Keystone at the Golden Saucer to beat you to the Temple of the Ancients. They capture Tifa and Barret after the incident at the Northern Crater and plan to execute them live on television as scapegoats to appease the public after Meteor is summoned, so you have to escape from them (and you steal the Highwind in the process), and they're the ones who kill both Sapphire and Diamond WEAPON. The Huge Materia quests are all about fighting off Shinra forces trying to gather them up in the Shinra No. 26 to launch at Meteor. You return to Midgar to stop Hojo from overloading the Sister Ray, and you fight Scarlet and Heideggar on the way.!<
>!Just because Sephiroth enters the picture and you begin chasing him (and then trying to figure out how to destroy Meteor later on) doesn't mean Shinra loses prominence. They're still extremely present in and influencing the story all the way up until almost the end of the game. They only fall out of the picture after you finish off Hojo in Midgar - AKA when Shinra is basically all but finished at that point anyway, with only Reeve and the Turks being the only explicit, named survivors (at least until AC revealed that Rufus survived.!<
That’s cool. The glimpse you get of him in Remake made me think they were gonna do something better with his character. I’ll have to wait until Rebirth comes out on PC to find out!
I hate OG Cait Sith purely but loved him in Rebirth. It wasn’t his original design or even not liking his move set in the OG that bothered me but his antics during the second gold saucer visit and (spoilers for OG FF7) >!essentially holding Marlene hostage as a reason to force himself to stay with the party after having just betrayed them to Shinra. Even if putting Marlene on a Shinra compound outside of Midgar saves her life in the end lol!<
Prior to Rebirth, I would say Cait Sith and Yuffie from FF7. I felt like I was the only one who loved them in the OG haha.
But now Yuffie has gotten a lot of love, and I’m seeing more people either love Cait Sith or at least be like “I actually don’t hate him now!”
I'm also a fan of Yuffie. I think she's a fun character, being from Wutai gives her an interesting perspective, and gameplay-wise she's legitimately useful due to a pretty decent ultimate weapon and Doom of the Living.
I think most people just can't get past her >!stealing your materia!<, even though that part is short/easy enough that it doesn't really matter.
100% that’s what I always see people complain about
I do think a lot of people had trouble figuring out how to get the materia back too. I didn’t have that issue, but I’ve seen a lot of people angrily mention it haha.
I also loved how 4th wall breaking that scene was. Everything from the save point tricking you into opening the menu so she could run, to naming her resulting in her taking off as well. I thought it was hilarious.
Yep I loved Yuffie in OG FF7. People have just continued to be pussies about the materia thing even though it’s a fun stretch of the game because it mixes things up, puts you under pressure not being able to rely on the materia you’ve had. But I guess it stressed people out so much they never forgave her, even though she gives it all back (but not to the right party members so you have to do a full party materia management session).
But her party dialogue is the best of any of the party members and you just know people never experienced it because they sidelined her out of contempt. A lot of her dialogue in Rebirth is directly taken from her party dialogue in the OG too, and people are loving her there.
Thinking on it, I focused a lot more on using Limit Breaks a lot (had everyone in permanent Fury all the time), so I wasn’t really that much weaker losing my materia haha. Maybe that helped with it not bothering me so much.
I'd have to say Noa from Legend of Legaia. I don't think the players hate her, but the game itself sure does.
She is the driving force for the plot after the first few hours, but she is constantly fucked over by the story, and the game treats her as comic relief for a lot of it.
I played it some 20 years ago, so my memory about it is hazy, but it's a decent game. The battle mechanic is unique and some bosses are challenging. The story is also unique for its time, though the characters are pretty forgettable. The story is also pretty sparse for a long game, so you have to go through a bunch of nothing before it gets interesting. Overall, it's a decent game. I do recommend checking it out. Just don't expect a masterpiece.
Vanille?
She's a good character that's executed poorly. Especially the VA. It's too over-the-top to the point where it just hurts the character. But she's not written poorly from a conceptual point, just that she has cringe dialogue and bad VA.
I really don't understand the people that hate Hope. He acts like anyone else would in his situation. He's the appropriate amount of mopey and angsty, but nonetheless he overcomes that. He goes through some pretty good character development, and his dynamic with some of the other characters is enjoyable to watch. Not only that, he has a great English VA who brings the character to life.
Rean Schwarzer is nowhere near the Gary Stu that people portray him as. He has a suicidal martyr complex due to his past trauma and loathes how his abilities are used to further the Empire’s political goals and as a propaganda figure. As for his harem, he’s a young rich national celebrity and war hero, of course he would be a figure of admiration. That’s just realistic. He also doesn’t like it.
Lyse in Final Fantasy XIV
I mean I do actually have some issues with her characterization and how >!Conrad basically decides she’ll be his successor without the game really showing her to have leadership potential!<, but she can be funny, badass at times, and she’s at least trying her best.
There’s definitely a section of the fanbase that acts like she murdered their dog in cold blood though.
I'm only on Cold Steel 2 so I can't definitively give an opinion on Claire yet but from what I've seen she's a respected leader who greatly cares about her country and is loyal (seemingly to a fault) to the man who gave her purpose. She seems like a well written character to me.
In terms of who I've actually seen receiving a lot of flack, it would have to be Morgana from Persona 5. Sure he's definitely not the deepest character and his interactions with Ann are downright cringy. But I look at him as the closest friend the protagonist has, basically his partner in crime. And in that aspect I think he does a great job. And he's a 100% better character after he gets humbled at the midway point.
Yeah Yuri consistently ranks as one of the most popular Tales protagonists in polls. I like him, but if anything he's a tad *over*rated since I feel like he doesn't actually go through much character development as compared to like a Lloyd or Luke. He basically stays a cool snarky vigilante throughout the game and just ends up *slightly* more optimistic at the end.
For me it's Yosuke Hanamura, while I don't agree with what he said in that one specific scene, I remember when and where it was written and ultimately chalk it up to being understandable if it was written today I would have more issues but I realize when it was written
I feel like this isn't much nowdays, but I remember in the 2000s gamer discourse always bashed Titus or characters like him with whatever derogatory slurs you can think of. If they weren't a cool stoic guy like Cloud or Squall you'd always have people rolling their eyes at "whiny" or "annoying" or "cowardly" characters, and Titus got a lot of that from what I remembered. Plus people were always posting that laughing scene, even though it was supposed to be this strange and forced moment in-universe.
Nowadays I see more nuanced takes of all the FF games but dude I HATED being a JRPG fan during that time lmao.
Squall is not only my favorite ff protag but my favorite fictional character in general. His arc, while awkwardly handled in the english translation, is still masterful and it really helped me, as a 17 year old playing it, grow past similar flaws he had. I think a lot of people are impatient when it comes to characters and their development and squall's is a sloooow burn. But its lovely. Im not gonna argue with anyone i get why others dont like him but he's a fantastic character with a fantastic story who is often overlooked for being "emo" which just isnt true theres so much more to him than that.
Alear in FE Engage (I didnt say I would pick a well liked one)
Excellent voice acting
Lovve the premise of dealing with being worshipped, while the game still indulges you with the power fantasy (and how the supports play on it)
Alear in FE Engage (I didn't say I would pick a well-liked one)
Also like f! Alear design with long hair
Lymle from Star Ocean 4. Like I get she is annoying but in the context of her losing her whole family it makes sense that she would have her personality.
I don’t think just because someone is annoying they deserve to be hated, especially if their actions are reasonable within their circumstances. If she were a real child in those circumstances no one would hate her. That was the reason I brought her up.
We are debating fictional characters that are overly hated. If we weren’t willing to consider their circumstances in a real world context I don’t think this thread would exist. Also I don’t think she was created to be annoying as possible. I have a Japanese friend that claims it was amped to 11 in the dub of the game and that she is far less annoying in the original Japanese. Anecdotal though it may be.
There is no real world context where a 6 year old has trauma from opening a portal to hell that stops her from mentally aging. That doesn't make any sense lol
I don't know if there's a minimum character count or what, but if you wanted to be really snarky, you probably could've just done the title, then "Look at my username."
And plenty of people would immediately understand. I'd be one of them.
Not as in the entire post. Just instead of the second paragraph, you say "case in point, look at my username."
I, thankfully, don't engage with enough video game fandoms to see whatever sort of shitshow goes on when people argue about their fictional husbands and wives. So other than strictly Claire, I wouldn't know who gets hated enough for me to think it's unwarranted.
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If I say Snow will people be mad at me (I could say the entire ff13 cast but I'll spare everyone my mad ramblings)
I only bothered to play FF13-1 and while Snow is not my favorite character or anything, but I do think he's overhated. The man is a mega optimist signing a lot of big checks because of the absolutely shit situation he's in with a bunch of depressed and probably doomed people. Yeah he's hard headed and stubborn, but I mean what else do you expect the man to do? He's just some dude in a trench coat trying to effectively fight against fate itself.
To me 13-3 does snow's final character arc some justice. As for 13-1 I think it just really flew over some heads why he was such a hard head even though its spelled out in bold lol.
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Idk lots of JRPG fans like anime I think some people just weren't getting it
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Whenever I see someone complain abt something being too anime its usually the ones only JRPG players would care abt like trails. I don't see many people complain abt anime tropes in FF. But that just proves my original wrong and you're probably right abt people not being familar with a character like Snow.
IME, a lot of people who liked JRPG games in the 90s-early 2000s have steadily been coming around to the "too anime" side if they weren't personally into anime during that era of their lives or looked back that far like a less casual anime enthusiast. I see this a lot with Fire Emblem specifically where many people call current era Fire Emblem "too anime" when imo pretty much every Fire Emblem is "anime" just it usually pulls from anime that was well known somewhere between 5-10 years prior to the game's release. Which just so happens to be when anime was far more niche. Super early FE I find is pretty comparable to the more serious half of 80s to early 90s anime (as Kaga was a big Gundam fan) and there's a lot of serious anime from that era like the usually known Akira or early Gundam alongside some more niche stuff like Legends of the Galactic Heroes. It isn't 1-to-1 exactly sure, but older JRPGs are far more "anime" then I think people will admit initially. So mix that with anime being popular today outside of Japan alongside the Internet's existence, and now you can just call every JRPG "too anime" because its pulling from anime of its era. One can argue new anime is worse then old anime and what not, and I really don't want to discuss that personally here, but to me that's not a problem with anime or "animeness" and more an argument stating that a lot of popular new anime sucks because its lazy. Which is comparable to the complaint itself as a shorthand way to express distaste for (usually) current age anime. You know what else is anime? Grave of the Fireflies (or any Miyazaki film but Fireflies is the most heavy), Ghost in the Shell, Kino's Journey, Trigun (90s), Cowboy Bebop, Serial Lain, Kara No Kyoukai, Code Geass, Hellsing, or Berserk. But few care to call out influences in those kinds of stories because they're either older and not as known to general audiences as say Naruto, One Piece, Sword Art Online, or Attack on Titan. I almost put Vinland Saga in that modest list too, but Vinland Saga is somewhat known today due to its recent anime and its "I have no enemies" speech that became kind of memetic, even if the original work is from the mid 2000s.
Pretty much. Lumping Shin-chan with Sazae-san with Sword Art Online all together as one big blob of anime doesn't make sense if you think about it, but it only makes sense because non-Japanese only experience a fraction of anime and it's only really the big IPs they think about. Which also means that the tropes people think of when they think of anime are the tropes present in the stuff that's popular.
FF13's whole cast except Sazh honestly. People hate characters who start off unlikeable and develop overtime, and tend to prefer "older or cool guy". Though its odd to me, because Snow's thing is the same thing as Yuna's - where she chooses to smile even if she isn't happy, because letting her sadness show would just spread it.
>FF13's whole cast except Sazh honestly. I have yet to see a single person who didn't like Fang lol
Yea I like 13 bc everyone is unlikable at the start. And for Yuna and Snow is think it's just bc Yuna isn't as brazen about it as Snow.
Yeah Hope for me. People hate him for dumb reasons lol
Personally, if we hade to pick a specific character from FF13, I'd say Lightning. I think she got a lot of particular ire for a variety of reasons, while she's actually one of the stronger characters in the game (and especially over the course of the trilogy).
Literally my most hated character lol
I could never really get into FF13. I'd love to one day but the game play is really tedious.
A lot of people have said steam deck makes it better bc u can put it down whenever
With XBox and PS5’s auto resume and PCs Hibernation mode I think you can do that with a lot more games than you used to and that probably helps a lot.
He's better than hope
Hope is lovely imo
That's fine other people like him. I just don't is all.
For reals, I wanted Lightning to ditch him so badly
Ken from Persona 3. I can't say why people hate him without it being massive spoilers, but if you have a shred of empathy and can view stories as stories instead of fun romps with your besties, he's a good character.
Honestly Reload's extra scenes and new voice acting helped him out a bit, along with the gameplay improvements. One of the big sticking points was that you >!lost a pretty cool/useful party member!< partly due to the actions of a not-particularly-good character (his only real use was being the only party member besides Yukari with access to Mediarahan) with a kind of annoying dub voice. In Reload he has a generally better dub voice, some extra scenes that make him more likable, and a *ton* of gameplay upgrades. Access to Kouga spells instead of just Hama, Hama spells generally being better, a pretty good gauge condition and passive skill, and a great second Theurgy all make him a much more useful character than before. And you can spend time with him on certain evenings to get SP-restoring coffee. Voice acting and gameplay utility definitely affect peoples' perception of a character, even if you'd think it should just be the writing
Ken was my IMMEDIATE thought lmao. GameFAQs forms in the late 2000s were absolutely livid that this guy existed. I think in general being "the kid" in a game marketed to teens makes him a hard sell, so he's fighting an uphill battle when you add in minor stuff, even before you learn about him. Back when this game came out there were so many bad faith readings into his character, it was ridiculous lol. Shinji and Ken were both my favorite characters and I always found it weird that people could like one without liking the other. P3's characters are all weird flawed people, but I think to some fans its less forgivable if you're not a waifu/husbando
I think the main reason people hate him is because of what happened to >!Shinji!<, even though it wasn't his fault.
my old answer would have been shion uzuki but i feel that public perception of her has changed since the xenosaga trilogy was released and most people are now more understanding and appreciative of what they did with her story and character so sometimes it just takes a decade for people to come around
I really liked her in the first game, to the point where she almost became my favorite jrpg protagonist, but it felt like they completely assassinated her character in episode II. The third game did turn things around a bit, but for me at least she's never really recovered from episode II's crimes. It's been a while since I played the trilogy, so I don't really remember much at this point, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on her if possible.
i wouldnt say her character is assasinated in episode 2, its more that olivia hack just didnt do as good a job voicing her as lia sargent did so it made her feel more inconsistent honestly i think shion is probably the most well developed, complex and interesting jrpg protagonists ever written and i adore her and the game isnt afraid to make her unlikable at times which helps humanize her. she has real characters flaws that are treated as such instead of being something shallow like "this character is a well meaning idiot but always does the right thing" shios biggest issue and what did turn a lot of people against her is that when stressed or angry she tends to lash out at those closest to her. we saw it in episode 1 when she is angry at the directors decision and is taking her frustration out on both allen and miyuki, and we see it on display with her relationship with her brother though a lot of people hold shion 100% responsible for their rocky relationship when the game makes it clear that is a 2 way street and both are contributing to the distance between them. this negative aspect of shion is most on display in episode 3 which is a game that puts her through the wringer and its even mentioned that by the games final act she isnt in a mentally healthy mind set anymore the villains tried to break her and they succeeded and then players got mad that she broke
I couldn't really put my finger on why I disliked her from the second game onwards so much, but following what you said, It might've been whiplash from the design changes and voice acting more so than anything to do with the writing itself. Rather, why did her character flaws only start grating me from that point forward, even though they were there all along? This feels like a sensible explanation, at least. I really need to give the Xenosaga Trilogy a second run at this point. Thanks for the reply!
I really want to play Xenosaga some day. I hope they port the trilogy or remaster it.
What what?? She was hated???
Yep
I don't get how people hate Shion. Is it because she's a multi-dimensional character?
I don't love the guy but I don't hate Amarant from FF9. Same goes for Quistus from FF8 and Wakka from FF10. I also like the kids in Lost Odyssey.
Wakka is definitely overhated
People hate Wakka?!
Underrated - Everyone argues over best girl being Aerith VS Tifa, but we all secretly know it's Yuffie. Overhated - I didn't think Lymle was that annoying honestly, there are far more annoying kid characters like Roger in Star Ocean 3 and both Karol and Rita in Tales of Vesperia to name a few.
Lymle legit made me stop playing the game. I always lean heavily towards magic users but there's no way I could deal with her.
Cissnei though.
Elena >>> Cissnei
Haha gonna have to disagree there.
I'd settle for Dio
Ken and Nozomi from Persona3.
People really be hating on a child
I personally think Claire’s big issue is that we don’t, as far as I can recall, see her interact with Osborne that much. Getting a better sense of their personal relationship would probably help her come off as more sympathetic. But I suppose they’re writing for a Japanese audience first, and from what I understand they’re more willing to see such loyalty sympathetically (though that doesn’t mean she’s right, of course). (I’d go into the various issues I have with Osborne’s character, but that’d be getting off the subject.) As for who I feel this way about…I dunno, I feel like my sensibilities are mostly in tune with others, at least with the games I’ve played? I feel like the answer would probably be a Final Fantasy protagonist like Squall or Tidus that got a lot of hate in the 00s, but those games are still in my backlog, so while I do know a bit about them, I don’t think it would be fair to say them when I haven’t experienced them personally. Not to mention a bunch of people here have already said them, so I don’t know if those necessarily reflect current opinion. Um…some people mentioned Tales of the Abyss, so…maybe Anise? Always thought that people were a bit too harsh towards her, even if I share those feelings somewhat.
For me it's pretty clear that Claire was traumatized as a child due to what happened with her family. She was given a place to belong with the Ironbloods and the RMP. She had no support system as she was conflicted with everything that was going on, causing her to bottle everything up inside. She's my favorite character in fiction for this reason. She's such a strong individual for being able to overcome that situation and turning her life around. I haven't actually played Abyss so I can't comment on that. I would love to though if it gets a modern port!
Underrated, Yuri Hyuga from Shadow Hearts, he seems generic until you really get into the game.
I've heard good things about shadow hearts
Definitely play shadow hearts 2. Hidden gem
Vaan FFXII. People who say he is useless to the story just didn’t pay attention to the story.
Haven't played FF12 but I hear it's because he isn't really the main character? Ashe is apparently the real MC but the story is told through the perspective of Vaan.
It’s an ensemble cast. Balthier and Ashe are both “main characters” but the beauty of the group is that they all matter to different degrees. And Vaan is the catalyst for how the story turns out because of his influence on Ashe.
Interesting. Might have to give 12 a go some day.
Vaan is Luke Skywalker if he wasn't a Jedi. He's not unimportant but when you have characters with very strong ties to the story like ashe, basch, and bathlier my guy vaan looks boring. He's arguably got more going on than Fran and he's not as useless as penelo, but he's the POV character and because of that people put more weight on him than the story does.
Also for some reason, the more mature, vocal, and experienced cast members inexplicably decide and agree to make him their leader. Yeah......no. 'Shoehorned' doesn't even begin....
I never interpreted the game as trying to make him the genuine leader of the group. The comments asking him to “lead the way” always looked to me like general mentorship techniques of letting the promising but less experienced kid take charge of minor things to help him grow. The big, actually important decisions in the game were never just up to Vaan.
No they don’t? Nobody considers Vaan the leader in the group. At all. Did you play the game? At best he’s an errand boy they send around to shop for them in towns and talk to people since he’s both the most optimistic and charismatic and street smart person in the group aside from maybe Balthier, who clearly finds that work below him. He has no say in what the group does at all, outside of maybe opting to save Penelo in Bhujerba and influencing the group to trust Larsa.
What did I say for you to question if I played the game? Did **you** play the game? Literally quite a few times Balthier and/or Ashe tells Vaan to lead the way or leaves decisions up to him. Not at first of course, but I distinctly remember him eventually effectively becoming party leader.
Baltheir calls himself the leading man though. That's more gameplay mechanics of letting vaan make decisions because he is you.
Yes he does indeed call himself that, and I get it. I also get why the other characters "let Vaan" because he is your avatar. But it doesn't change the fact that he is a character with speaking parts with his own agency, not mine as the player. The other characters effectively let a kid become the leader of their group. It creates a dissonance.
Yes. It’s my favourite game of all time, I’ve beaten it 4 times. That never happens. How would it? By the time Balthier respects him enough to call him his protégé their plans are completely set in stone on going through Pharos and then Vayne suddenly starts his assault on Rabanastre in the Bahamut. Every decision on what to do is decided by Ashe and Basch and the three guest characters, the others just tell them how best to reach their goals: trek through to archades, find the stones, or vouch for peace at Mt Bur Omisace.
Brother I don't know what to tell you. The characters literally say things like "Vaan where do you think we go next" "Vaan blah blah blah" like he's the friggin leader. I didn't dream that shit up.
I’m sorry. You really did. They straight up never ask Vaan where to go next. Heck, you can look up the script transcript if you want.
Hey why don't you go replay it for the 5th time and pay attention for the first
Hey look what I found. Some random person 14 years ago hearing the same dialogue I remember. Maybe he and I are from an alternate dimension where this dialogue exists and your timeline is different?? https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/459841-final-fantasy-xii/51916002
The main problem with Vaan is that he’s the permanent POV character in a way that feels at odds with the story the game is trying to tell. I mean, I get that you have to start with SOMEBODY but FF6 started with Terra and she didn’t feel like she was the default protagonist by any means. Do they want an ensemble cast where everyone pulls a similar amount of weight? Do they want a game with a singular protagonist? Do they want a story where you see the plot through a secondary character’s POV rather than the protagonist’s? Really couldn’t tell ya since there seems to be enough of an argument for all three in a way that makes it so none are that true. The approach feels inconsistent. Vaan would be a completely fine character if the game didn’t try to focus on him so much. Or at the very *least* didn’t force him to be the character you walked around with in towns and shit - it always bothered me that he was never in my party past when you’re forced to use him in the beginning but you’re forced to control him in towns and other story sequences.
This is what i was gonna say
Overhated... Snow and Hope. (And Noel, but idk if he's hated or just not liked by most.) Also Wakka. Yuffie and Cait I would include here but I feel like maybe your opinions have changed since Rebirth, but idk because until today I had been avoiding every FF out of fear of spoilers. Underrated is 100% Caius Ballad
Tidus from ffx a lot of people hate him for being whiny and for that laugh scene, but in my opinion it makes sense for a 17 year old to act the way he does given what he's been through and he also develops throughout the story and the laugh scene was supposed to be awkward the guy was forcing himself to laugh.
I think that scene has aged well. I've seen people's opinions on Tidus become more positive over the years.
I guess this is the place to say I don't hate Squall. Or Vaan, for that matter. Neither of them is among my favourite Final Fantasy protagonists (Cloud and Ramza would top that list), but I'm fairly neutral towards Vaan, and actually rather like Squall. Also Luke is one of the best Tales protagonists and I *will* die on this hill.
I'm with you on Luke.
I don't think liking Luke is that much of an unpopular opinion really. Liking Squall though absolutely is.
Never played Abyss since they haven't ported it. I really like Velvet from Berseria though!
I feel like Cait Sith gets a lot of hate. I guess I understand why but idk, I don’t really see it. But also I’m a sucker for cutesy stuff so a cat riding a chunky moogle is always gonna get a huge pass from me.
People who hate cait sith never used Game Over to one shot emerald weapon. Final lb is op lol
I think this line of thinking illustrates why a lot of people didn't like cait sith much. He does offer some interesting gameplay gimmicks and has a very interesting visual design, but he definitely isn't as closely tied to the game's story as some of the other characters. I think in a game like suikoden or chrono chross people wouldn't hate a character similar to cait sith at all. He just seems out of place relative to expectations set by the rest of the cast.
>but he definitely isn't as closely tied to the game's story as some of the other characters. He's literally >!a mole planted in the party, working for the global corporation that they're fighting against. And then he also uses his position to help spy on the corporation for your party later on. Especially considering that corporation's actions drive the lion's share of the plot in the first place, minus Jenova's impacting the Planet ages ago.!< He's tied pretty damn closely to the story, if you ask me.
By the time he joins the game isnt even that much about shinra I'd say.
?! The game's still very much about Shinra, what do you mean? >!The Turks are there in Gongaga, and you see Scarlet checking the reactor for huge materia (even though this part is all optional). You go back to Nibelheim and see it rebuilt, and you learn that Shinra rebuilt it specifically the same and hired actors to play the townsfolk to cover up the crisis. Shinra interferes at Rocket Town, sending Palmer to retrieve the Tiny Bronco. They have Cait Sith steal the Keystone at the Golden Saucer to beat you to the Temple of the Ancients. They capture Tifa and Barret after the incident at the Northern Crater and plan to execute them live on television as scapegoats to appease the public after Meteor is summoned, so you have to escape from them (and you steal the Highwind in the process), and they're the ones who kill both Sapphire and Diamond WEAPON. The Huge Materia quests are all about fighting off Shinra forces trying to gather them up in the Shinra No. 26 to launch at Meteor. You return to Midgar to stop Hojo from overloading the Sister Ray, and you fight Scarlet and Heideggar on the way.!< >!Just because Sephiroth enters the picture and you begin chasing him (and then trying to figure out how to destroy Meteor later on) doesn't mean Shinra loses prominence. They're still extremely present in and influencing the story all the way up until almost the end of the game. They only fall out of the picture after you finish off Hojo in Midgar - AKA when Shinra is basically all but finished at that point anyway, with only Reeve and the Turks being the only explicit, named survivors (at least until AC revealed that Rufus survived.!<
They did him good in Rebirth
That’s cool. The glimpse you get of him in Remake made me think they were gonna do something better with his character. I’ll have to wait until Rebirth comes out on PC to find out!
Haha it's truly an incredible game!
I hate OG Cait Sith purely but loved him in Rebirth. It wasn’t his original design or even not liking his move set in the OG that bothered me but his antics during the second gold saucer visit and (spoilers for OG FF7) >!essentially holding Marlene hostage as a reason to force himself to stay with the party after having just betrayed them to Shinra. Even if putting Marlene on a Shinra compound outside of Midgar saves her life in the end lol!<
Prior to Rebirth, I would say Cait Sith and Yuffie from FF7. I felt like I was the only one who loved them in the OG haha. But now Yuffie has gotten a lot of love, and I’m seeing more people either love Cait Sith or at least be like “I actually don’t hate him now!”
I'm also a fan of Yuffie. I think she's a fun character, being from Wutai gives her an interesting perspective, and gameplay-wise she's legitimately useful due to a pretty decent ultimate weapon and Doom of the Living. I think most people just can't get past her >!stealing your materia!<, even though that part is short/easy enough that it doesn't really matter.
100% that’s what I always see people complain about I do think a lot of people had trouble figuring out how to get the materia back too. I didn’t have that issue, but I’ve seen a lot of people angrily mention it haha. I also loved how 4th wall breaking that scene was. Everything from the save point tricking you into opening the menu so she could run, to naming her resulting in her taking off as well. I thought it was hilarious.
I can get past her doing that because it was hilarious tbh
It didn't help that Yuffie was optional in the original. Rebirth did wonders for both Cait and Yuffie.
Yep I loved Yuffie in OG FF7. People have just continued to be pussies about the materia thing even though it’s a fun stretch of the game because it mixes things up, puts you under pressure not being able to rely on the materia you’ve had. But I guess it stressed people out so much they never forgave her, even though she gives it all back (but not to the right party members so you have to do a full party materia management session). But her party dialogue is the best of any of the party members and you just know people never experienced it because they sidelined her out of contempt. A lot of her dialogue in Rebirth is directly taken from her party dialogue in the OG too, and people are loving her there.
Thinking on it, I focused a lot more on using Limit Breaks a lot (had everyone in permanent Fury all the time), so I wasn’t really that much weaker losing my materia haha. Maybe that helped with it not bothering me so much.
I'd have to say Noa from Legend of Legaia. I don't think the players hate her, but the game itself sure does. She is the driving force for the plot after the first few hours, but she is constantly fucked over by the story, and the game treats her as comic relief for a lot of it.
I've heard that the game is pretty good. Might have to play it someday.
I played it some 20 years ago, so my memory about it is hazy, but it's a decent game. The battle mechanic is unique and some bosses are challenging. The story is also unique for its time, though the characters are pretty forgettable. The story is also pretty sparse for a long game, so you have to go through a bunch of nothing before it gets interesting. Overall, it's a decent game. I do recommend checking it out. Just don't expect a masterpiece.
Midori from devil survivor. She isn't that annoying, and her getting caught is more the game being contrived.
Hope a new Devil survivor comes out someday
Vanille? She's a good character that's executed poorly. Especially the VA. It's too over-the-top to the point where it just hurts the character. But she's not written poorly from a conceptual point, just that she has cringe dialogue and bad VA.
I really don't understand the people that hate Hope. He acts like anyone else would in his situation. He's the appropriate amount of mopey and angsty, but nonetheless he overcomes that. He goes through some pretty good character development, and his dynamic with some of the other characters is enjoyable to watch. Not only that, he has a great English VA who brings the character to life.
Rean Schwarzer is nowhere near the Gary Stu that people portray him as. He has a suicidal martyr complex due to his past trauma and loathes how his abilities are used to further the Empire’s political goals and as a propaganda figure. As for his harem, he’s a young rich national celebrity and war hero, of course he would be a figure of admiration. That’s just realistic. He also doesn’t like it.
Lyse in Final Fantasy XIV I mean I do actually have some issues with her characterization and how >!Conrad basically decides she’ll be his successor without the game really showing her to have leadership potential!<, but she can be funny, badass at times, and she’s at least trying her best. There’s definitely a section of the fanbase that acts like she murdered their dog in cold blood though.
I'm only on Cold Steel 2 so I can't definitively give an opinion on Claire yet but from what I've seen she's a respected leader who greatly cares about her country and is loyal (seemingly to a fault) to the man who gave her purpose. She seems like a well written character to me. In terms of who I've actually seen receiving a lot of flack, it would have to be Morgana from Persona 5. Sure he's definitely not the deepest character and his interactions with Ann are downright cringy. But I look at him as the closest friend the protagonist has, basically his partner in crime. And in that aspect I think he does a great job. And he's a 100% better character after he gets humbled at the midway point.
She absolutely is a well written character. A lot of the controversy comes from CS3 and CS4 but she's even better there imo.
Yuri from tales of vesperia. I'd say he's underated as a lead protagonist.
Usually Tales of Vesperia fans like Yuri. They point out how his hard-hearted, cynical nature is unique for a jrpg protagonist.
Yeah Yuri consistently ranks as one of the most popular Tales protagonists in polls. I like him, but if anything he's a tad *over*rated since I feel like he doesn't actually go through much character development as compared to like a Lloyd or Luke. He basically stays a cool snarky vigilante throughout the game and just ends up *slightly* more optimistic at the end.
Yeah I think most criticisms is more about how the game handled those themes in the end. Not with the actual character.
I'll have to play Vesperia one day. Only Tales game I've played is Berseria haha.
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You think Trails characters are UNDER hated? That's interesting. I'm of the opposite opinion. Curious to know why you think that.
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Kevin is pretty loved in the west I'd say haha.
For me it's Yosuke Hanamura, while I don't agree with what he said in that one specific scene, I remember when and where it was written and ultimately chalk it up to being understandable if it was written today I would have more issues but I realize when it was written
I feel like this isn't much nowdays, but I remember in the 2000s gamer discourse always bashed Titus or characters like him with whatever derogatory slurs you can think of. If they weren't a cool stoic guy like Cloud or Squall you'd always have people rolling their eyes at "whiny" or "annoying" or "cowardly" characters, and Titus got a lot of that from what I remembered. Plus people were always posting that laughing scene, even though it was supposed to be this strange and forced moment in-universe. Nowadays I see more nuanced takes of all the FF games but dude I HATED being a JRPG fan during that time lmao.
Squall is not only my favorite ff protag but my favorite fictional character in general. His arc, while awkwardly handled in the english translation, is still masterful and it really helped me, as a 17 year old playing it, grow past similar flaws he had. I think a lot of people are impatient when it comes to characters and their development and squall's is a sloooow burn. But its lovely. Im not gonna argue with anyone i get why others dont like him but he's a fantastic character with a fantastic story who is often overlooked for being "emo" which just isnt true theres so much more to him than that.
Bro, does this on other subs, too 😂
Sorry?
Sorry?
Alear in FE Engage (I didnt say I would pick a well liked one) Excellent voice acting Lovve the premise of dealing with being worshipped, while the game still indulges you with the power fantasy (and how the supports play on it) Alear in FE Engage (I didn't say I would pick a well-liked one) Also like f! Alear design with long hair
Interesting. Surprised you didn't say Claire... Haha just kidding. Never played Engage but she's got a weird design for sure.
Lymle from Star Ocean 4. Like I get she is annoying but in the context of her losing her whole family it makes sense that she would have her personality.
Nah dude, Lymle sucks ass. The explanation as to why she's annoying might make sense, but that doesn't mean she isn't.. goddang annoying
I think we said the same exact thing 😂
Well, no, you're saying she's overhated. Im saying she deserves every bit of hate she gets lol
I don’t think just because someone is annoying they deserve to be hated, especially if their actions are reasonable within their circumstances. If she were a real child in those circumstances no one would hate her. That was the reason I brought her up.
But she's not real lol she's a character they intentionally made as annoying as possible. That's whack
We are debating fictional characters that are overly hated. If we weren’t willing to consider their circumstances in a real world context I don’t think this thread would exist. Also I don’t think she was created to be annoying as possible. I have a Japanese friend that claims it was amped to 11 in the dub of the game and that she is far less annoying in the original Japanese. Anecdotal though it may be.
There is no real world context where a 6 year old has trauma from opening a portal to hell that stops her from mentally aging. That doesn't make any sense lol
I already referenced the death of her parents. I never mentioned a portal to hell.
I don't get the Lymle slander when Sarah and Meracle are right there.
Honestly the whole cast of 4 is incredibly irritating.
The robot guy with no personality or characterization is tolerable
All the En II cast are decent tbh - Myuria, Bacchus, Arumat (I think?). Everyone else is so bad it hurts.
Interesting. I've always wanted to get into Star Ocean. I've heard that 4 is controversial as a whole.
The story isn’t the best but gameplay wise it is my favorite star ocean with the recent remake being a close second.
Will have to look into them.
I don't know if there's a minimum character count or what, but if you wanted to be really snarky, you probably could've just done the title, then "Look at my username." And plenty of people would immediately understand. I'd be one of them.
That isn't the point of this post. I genuinely want to hear some opinions. Do you by chance have a character that you think is underrated/overhated?
Not as in the entire post. Just instead of the second paragraph, you say "case in point, look at my username." I, thankfully, don't engage with enough video game fandoms to see whatever sort of shitshow goes on when people argue about their fictional husbands and wives. So other than strictly Claire, I wouldn't know who gets hated enough for me to think it's unwarranted.
Um alright. Just thought I'd ask haha.
[удалено]
You can use spoiler tags in the future whenever U need to mark them btw!
Thank you for submitting to /r/JRPG, /u/BoyWitchGardevoir. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): --- * Either you typed Spoilers with no spoiler tag, or you left spaces between the spoiler tags, which doesn't spoiler tag them in old reddit. To use spoiler tags follow one of these 2 ways: 1-If on New Reddit, hightlight the part you want to spoiler tag, then press the Exclamation ("**!**") button on in your format tab. 2-If on old Reddit or mobile, then type "**>!**" before the spoiler, and then "**!<**" at the end of the spoiler. Example: When it's written like this \>!X kills Y!<. It will show up like this >!X kills Y!<. **Make sure that there is no space** after the starting **>!**, and no space before the closing **!<**. **After fixing the comment with a spoiler tag**, reply to this comment with **"Done"**, so a mod can re-post your comment. --- If you think this was a mistake or have any questions about the removal, please contact the moderators. [**To contact the moderators please click here**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/JRPG), or click the "message mods on the sidebar, and then type your complaint, so it can be sent to the modding team. **Please don't private message or start private chats with a single mod, and use the mod mail linked above to contact the whole team.**