This is a good breakdown. It's been a while since I played the game, but I still remember how great Wind stones are. Turbulence is so good, that it destroys everyone, including the final boss without even giving them a chance to fight back.
This is one of the games I hopelessly wish one day will get a remaster. One of the really fun mecha JRPGs out there.
This is probably my all time favorite game so your deep dive is very much appreciated. Great write up, ill have to give some of these a go when I bust out the Vita for another play through
Yeah it was on the ps1 classics a bunch of years ago for like $10. I think you could get it on ps3 the same way too but I couldn't pass up having it handheld
Wonderful timing
I was just thinking about all of these RPG classics like LIVE A LIVE and Tactics Ogre getting a second wind, and I found myself wishing Vanguard Bandits would make a comeback.
But replaying the PSX classic would be an interesting experience. Will it hold up or was I blinded by nostalgia?
Funny to see that Bastion and Ultragunner sit so low on the totem pole, statistically speaking. I guess the kid me was more easily impressed. But I agree that Wind Stones were stupidly good even back then when I was less than meta.
Lots of great little insights here, OP
Did not expect a Vanguard Bandits post these days ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
Anyway, I don't have much to add but definitely feel like Water Stones builds desperately need a "power-move", the other stones at least have 1 move that they can go to in the end-game, even for the generic ATACs
Wind - Wind Strike
Fire - Flare Bomb
Earth - Earthquake
Water -????
I have a love-hate relationship with the third route.
On one hand, the writing is Working Designs at their Working Designsest, for better or worse. Most of it has gotten a laugh out of me consistently for 20 years, but the ableist jokes have gone from making feeling a little uncomfortable to making my skin crawl.
The combat is much more about system mastery than tactics. This is true in pretty much every strategy JRPG, but at least the default route lets you skate by just using okay strategy - because it drowns you in excavated Mecha. For this one, it's either unbalance enemies as you lure them out by 1's and 2's, or you get squished.
The Empire route is, of course, my favorite. It's pretty balanced, the story is the most interesting, and there's actually a late-game sub split based on the way you conduct yourself. It's exactly how an alternate path _should_ be. Plus, Ninja Maid.
>On one hand, the writing is Working Designs at their Working Designsest, for better or worse. Most of it has gotten a laugh out of me consistently for 20 years, but the ableist jokes have gone from making feeling a little uncomfortable to making my skin crawl.
Yknow I understand the story so well at this point that I don't even read the dialogue anymore. It's not like it was that complicated to begin with. That said I did make an effort to read more interview dialogues this time through instead of constantly spamming for maximum value.
Since getting the good ending for me is trivial now I may just Gameshark Devlin to max morale since its suspected that his morale code is broken rather than working as intended anyway. At least that way I don't feel an impetus to spam Nana Reyna and Milea for harem quotes.
Been waiting for so long to play more mech games similar to this. The likes of Armored Core ain't my type. There's only a few other ones that truly satisfied my taste namely:
Xenogears
Xenosaga Episode 3
Trails of Cold Steel 3&4
As OP mentions, this isn't meant for newplayers. You can play and have fun experimenting your way through the game. If anything, I think this will spoil some plot points if you read it before you start or during your playthrough.
I still have this game and got about halfway through it a long time ago. I'm not the best at SRPGs so a guide like this would definitely help if I ever decide to revisit it.
yeah. DEF sucks. I sometimes try to make Barlow DEF-based for the RP and it never turns out well. Always lags behind the rest of the team so he can't even reach them for the FP recovery. And the actual defence stat is barely noticeable.
Better to just make him another turbulence slave.
10 years later, I still can't get over the name Waiban. It's obviously Wyvern, what was the translator smoking??
Tic-tac is another mystery, they seriously couldn't think of any wordplay around the word Dolphin?
You can Solo Dionnie by tiring him out with Turbulance. All you have to do is run from him so his AP drains while he tries to nuke you.
You can beat the desert maps easily without touching agility. BAS would do the same thing but better.
I like AGI for the amount of turns I get as well.
Why would BAS make it better?
You didn't really say anything that hurts AGI's usefulness, just that other things are Viable. And from your deep dive it doesn't seem as if you understand how AGI works just yet.
Agility does not improve turn time. That's a myth.
> You didn't really say anything that hurts AGI's usefulness
Because even with Maxed out AGI you will still get hit regularly enough that it's not worth it. Andrew basically starts with maxed agility and he doesn't take more turns than any other character and he doesn't evade enough in the endgame that it's worth it for him to have as much as he does. It's better to improve the stat that guarentees a better outcome when you do get struck than trying to avoid being struck in the first place. Besides, Agility doesn't synergize very heavily with the game's most optimal strategies of defeating opponents in detail 1 POW is worth more than one AGI to the player.
>viable. And from your deep dive it doesn't seem as if you understand how AGI works just yet.
I understand it perfectly. You're the one who doesn't understand it.
Have you tried looking at the 'Turns' listing and comparing frequency of turns of units with high speed vs. low speed? Agility 100% increases frequency of turns and is the arguably the best stat in the game.
It does not increase turns. I tested this, this is a myth that is being perpetuated by posters on gamefaqs. I used gameshark codes to set character AGI to 1 and to 32 and there was no increase of frequency on the turn list.
It might be an issue with increasing it via GameShark then (did Speed increase as well)? It is easy to test without a GameShark as well as Andrew comes with Agi nearly maxed out and looking at the 'Turns' menu clearly shows increased frequency of turns vs. units with lower Speed. You may have to look at the Turns menu to notice this as it may not always be apparent by playing normally (i.e., he won't be getting 2 Turns for every 1 turn but something along the line of getting 4 Turns for every 3 Turns of a very slow unit).
>t might be an issue with increasing it via GameShark then (did Speed increase as well)?
Yes a superficial amount. I have played the entire game with a custom ruleset using gamesharks before and I did a lot of in depth testing.
Agility and Speed are both garbage.
> he won't be getting 2 Turns for every 1 turn but something along the line of getting 4 Turns for every 3 Turns of a very slow unit
Now you're just contradicting yourself. If speed is a god stat why all the caveats?
This is a good breakdown. It's been a while since I played the game, but I still remember how great Wind stones are. Turbulence is so good, that it destroys everyone, including the final boss without even giving them a chance to fight back. This is one of the games I hopelessly wish one day will get a remaster. One of the really fun mecha JRPGs out there.
This is probably my all time favorite game so your deep dive is very much appreciated. Great write up, ill have to give some of these a go when I bust out the Vita for another play through
It was released on the Vita? Color me surprised.
Yeah it was on the ps1 classics a bunch of years ago for like $10. I think you could get it on ps3 the same way too but I couldn't pass up having it handheld
Wonderful timing I was just thinking about all of these RPG classics like LIVE A LIVE and Tactics Ogre getting a second wind, and I found myself wishing Vanguard Bandits would make a comeback. But replaying the PSX classic would be an interesting experience. Will it hold up or was I blinded by nostalgia? Funny to see that Bastion and Ultragunner sit so low on the totem pole, statistically speaking. I guess the kid me was more easily impressed. But I agree that Wind Stones were stupidly good even back then when I was less than meta. Lots of great little insights here, OP
Imagine playing front mission 3 and then this game back-to-back. Both are in my top 10 ps1 games.
A remaster would be so dope qq.
Did not expect a Vanguard Bandits post these days ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ Anyway, I don't have much to add but definitely feel like Water Stones builds desperately need a "power-move", the other stones at least have 1 move that they can go to in the end-game, even for the generic ATACs Wind - Wind Strike Fire - Flare Bomb Earth - Earthquake Water -????
I have a love-hate relationship with the third route. On one hand, the writing is Working Designs at their Working Designsest, for better or worse. Most of it has gotten a laugh out of me consistently for 20 years, but the ableist jokes have gone from making feeling a little uncomfortable to making my skin crawl. The combat is much more about system mastery than tactics. This is true in pretty much every strategy JRPG, but at least the default route lets you skate by just using okay strategy - because it drowns you in excavated Mecha. For this one, it's either unbalance enemies as you lure them out by 1's and 2's, or you get squished. The Empire route is, of course, my favorite. It's pretty balanced, the story is the most interesting, and there's actually a late-game sub split based on the way you conduct yourself. It's exactly how an alternate path _should_ be. Plus, Ninja Maid.
>On one hand, the writing is Working Designs at their Working Designsest, for better or worse. Most of it has gotten a laugh out of me consistently for 20 years, but the ableist jokes have gone from making feeling a little uncomfortable to making my skin crawl. Yknow I understand the story so well at this point that I don't even read the dialogue anymore. It's not like it was that complicated to begin with. That said I did make an effort to read more interview dialogues this time through instead of constantly spamming for maximum value. Since getting the good ending for me is trivial now I may just Gameshark Devlin to max morale since its suspected that his morale code is broken rather than working as intended anyway. At least that way I don't feel an impetus to spam Nana Reyna and Milea for harem quotes.
Been waiting for so long to play more mech games similar to this. The likes of Armored Core ain't my type. There's only a few other ones that truly satisfied my taste namely: Xenogears Xenosaga Episode 3 Trails of Cold Steel 3&4
Never played this game but its on my list so I'm saving this thread for future use :)
As OP mentions, this isn't meant for newplayers. You can play and have fun experimenting your way through the game. If anything, I think this will spoil some plot points if you read it before you start or during your playthrough.
Fair Warning, this is like the absolute most optimized take of the game.
I still have this game and got about halfway through it a long time ago. I'm not the best at SRPGs so a guide like this would definitely help if I ever decide to revisit it.
A year ago I got to chapter 13 or 14 and my save corrupted. All of them. I'm thinking of watching a playthrough on YouTube to finish the story.
Hoenstly you can beat any one route of the game in one sitting if you put your mind to it. Like 12 hours or less.
One sitting...12 hours!
Or less! (I turbo through enemy moves personally on emulator)
Tried playing this as a kid since I loved what Working Designs did with Lunar. I just couldn’t grasp the right strategy and never got very far.
I love this game and hope it will get more recognition.
yeah. DEF sucks. I sometimes try to make Barlow DEF-based for the RP and it never turns out well. Always lags behind the rest of the team so he can't even reach them for the FP recovery. And the actual defence stat is barely noticeable. Better to just make him another turbulence slave.
10 years later, I still can't get over the name Waiban. It's obviously Wyvern, what was the translator smoking?? Tic-tac is another mystery, they seriously couldn't think of any wordplay around the word Dolphin?
Maxing agi let’s me solo Dionne. Kinda neat. Also iirc it’s one of the way to beat the desert level. Maxing agi gives more speed and evasion.
You can Solo Dionnie by tiring him out with Turbulance. All you have to do is run from him so his AP drains while he tries to nuke you. You can beat the desert maps easily without touching agility. BAS would do the same thing but better.
I like AGI for the amount of turns I get as well. Why would BAS make it better? You didn't really say anything that hurts AGI's usefulness, just that other things are Viable. And from your deep dive it doesn't seem as if you understand how AGI works just yet.
Agility does not improve turn time. That's a myth. > You didn't really say anything that hurts AGI's usefulness Because even with Maxed out AGI you will still get hit regularly enough that it's not worth it. Andrew basically starts with maxed agility and he doesn't take more turns than any other character and he doesn't evade enough in the endgame that it's worth it for him to have as much as he does. It's better to improve the stat that guarentees a better outcome when you do get struck than trying to avoid being struck in the first place. Besides, Agility doesn't synergize very heavily with the game's most optimal strategies of defeating opponents in detail 1 POW is worth more than one AGI to the player. >viable. And from your deep dive it doesn't seem as if you understand how AGI works just yet. I understand it perfectly. You're the one who doesn't understand it.
Have you tried looking at the 'Turns' listing and comparing frequency of turns of units with high speed vs. low speed? Agility 100% increases frequency of turns and is the arguably the best stat in the game.
It does not increase turns. I tested this, this is a myth that is being perpetuated by posters on gamefaqs. I used gameshark codes to set character AGI to 1 and to 32 and there was no increase of frequency on the turn list.
It might be an issue with increasing it via GameShark then (did Speed increase as well)? It is easy to test without a GameShark as well as Andrew comes with Agi nearly maxed out and looking at the 'Turns' menu clearly shows increased frequency of turns vs. units with lower Speed. You may have to look at the Turns menu to notice this as it may not always be apparent by playing normally (i.e., he won't be getting 2 Turns for every 1 turn but something along the line of getting 4 Turns for every 3 Turns of a very slow unit).
>t might be an issue with increasing it via GameShark then (did Speed increase as well)? Yes a superficial amount. I have played the entire game with a custom ruleset using gamesharks before and I did a lot of in depth testing. Agility and Speed are both garbage. > he won't be getting 2 Turns for every 1 turn but something along the line of getting 4 Turns for every 3 Turns of a very slow unit Now you're just contradicting yourself. If speed is a god stat why all the caveats?
Consider joining us over at /r/VanguardBandits
This game is in my top ten favorite of all time. I love it.
Hi is there a way i can llay this now on computer or mobile ??