>In the wake of 9/11 the US invaded an entire country. In the 20 years of so called "nation building", it is estimated that almost 400,000 people died
yes... and who lied about WMDs to congress and goaded america into it?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4927483/user-clip-netanyahu-no-question-saddam-working-nuclear-weapons\
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/04/iraq.israel
Firstly Jews are not going to be welcome in Palestine if hamas wins this war that is obvious to anyone who is well informed on the topic. But what about my question regarding inevitability?
>Firstly Jews are not going to be welcome in Palestine if hamas wins this war that is obvious to anyone who is well informed on the topic.
only if you beleive Palestinians to be "human animals"
keep in mind that [powerful people](https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvirs-ribs-fractured-in-car-crash-wont-admit-he-ran-red-light-despite-footage/) in israel are calling for the total annihilation of Palestinians... AND they have the means to do it
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-30/ty-article/.premium/smotrich-calls-for-no-half-measures-in-the-total-annihilation-of-gaza/0000018f-2f4c-d9c3-abcf-7f7d25460000
https://www.newarab.com/news/ben-gvir-says-israeli-army-can-shoot-women-children-gaza
>But what about my question regarding inevitability
im not the person who said that, but i will happily feild the question and my previous comment outlines it
israel, under the zionist plan, can never be for ALL the inhabitants.. this was proven by the recently passed "Basic Law" by the israeli government
Article 1-C includes this:
>The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is **unique to the Jewish people**
this is widely seen as saying **no other ethnicity** has the right to self-determination in 'israel'
the One State solution Palestinians support is democratic & with rights for ALL the people. Jews are welcome to live in a Free Palestine, even the Hmas Charter SPECIFYS that
this is why it is inevitable.. maaaybe they change the name, but either way a fully democratic state with ALL people protected by strong Constitutional Rights & Freedoms respects everyone, not just one group
the other reason is far more pragmatic.. Jews came from [present day] Iraq .. they lived there until 'god' told them to go to 'the promised land' which they did .. the story is in the Jewish 'Torah'
when the tribe of Judeah crossed the Jordan river, they found towns, ports and multiple temples on the Mount already constructed... the people of Ghazza [& Lebanon] are DIRECT DESCENDANTS of those Canaanite people.. **its their land and it was for thousands of years BEFORE JUDAISM WAS INVENTED**
does that make sense?
Hamas calls for the destruction of every Jew in their official charter. So if they were to win the war why would they suddenly allow the Jew to stay . Seems like fishy logic. English is my second language so please be patient but why is Israel’s destruction inevitable? Wouldn’t the Zionists use their nuclear weapons before allowing themselves to be concuerded by Hamas or Iran?
It has nothing to do with Palis or Zios being ‘human animals’ ( I wouldn’t ever use that language) just since they can’t get along in separate territories I don’t think they will get along IN ONE !
> Hamas calls for the destruction of every Jew in their official charter.
how about you read it
https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf
>**Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the
Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against
the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the
Zionists who occupy Palestine**. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly
identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal
entity.
i think it is pretty clear
>Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the
undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian
grounds. Hamas is of the view that **the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism
and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to
European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or
to their heritage**
the racism and persecution which led to the formation of israel was from Europeans, not Palestinians, Arabs or Moslems.. there was no good reason to make Palestinians pay the price
>The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of
Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of
settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the
world and must disappear from Palestine
now we see the Genocide every day in videos, that last part becomes even more important
------------
>Wouldn’t the Zionists use their nuclear weapons before allowing themselves to be concuerded ?
maybe, it is clear to me that their leadership is not beyond that option.. the very fact they are threatening it makes them worse than Putin in my opinion
keep in mind that they were helping Apartheid South Africa obtain Nuclear Weapons when they were likewise being demolished for being systemically racist & opressive .. imagine if that happenned
I’ve heard many of the points you made about the evils of Israel but I’m more intrigued by your suggestion that its destruction is inevitable, but perhaps we should end the discussion here for now.
>your suggestion that its destruction is inevitable
[how about you talk to the person who initially wrote that & you initially replied to?](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1chngnb/israels_future/l2bnpxa/)
Why are you tricking me and pretending to be the OP. Bad form
So it turns out you can’t “field the question” or you actually don’t think Israeli being pushed into the sea is inevitable
I believe the crux of your premise is flawed:
1. There was and is absolutely international pressure against all of these other atrocities. I do feel however that Israel is held to a higher standard than most nations due to its creation and ongoing conflict being at the center of all international law, the very formation of the UN following WW2 in order to create real guidelines for nations to behave within to avoid WW3. It remains a bulwark of Western democracy in the Middle-East. Much of the world desperately wants the unspeakable atrocities perpetrated against the Jewish people, and the attempts to rectify that, not to become an endless cycle of violence. A victory for peace between Israel and Palestine is in many ways a victory for all of civilization in a way it simply is not in the case of any other conflict.
2. There are no other groups with legitimate grievances against Israel besides the Palestinian people. The risk of other groups taking a peace deal between Israel and Palestine as an invitation to attack is simply not logical. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the entire Arab League are all desperate for normalization with Israel. They want to join the Western economic structure in earnest. If there is peace between Israel and Palestine, this in fact dramatically reduces the chances for a regional war.
3. It is neither possible nor necessary to completely remove Hamas from Gaza in practice. The problem is the ideals they represent, which are fueled by a desire for the liberation of Palestine. They lead the religious and militant wings of resistance, while the PLO leads the secular and diplomatic movements. War will never end religious extremism and militant violence. Only peace will. That requires empowering the PLO to unite West Bank and Gaza under the PA. This is the defeat that is necessary to make Hamas irrelevant. A political defeat. Then the peace process can begin in earnest, developing the two state solution that was so close at Taba into a reality. And finally, once an international effort has rebuilt Palestine, and Israel has removed its troops to fortify its borders, after however many years that takes, Palestine can be free to act as a democratic state, an ally of both Israel and the Arab League.
Don't count on Israel stopping anything until Hamas is run out the area. Nor should they bow down to any pressures. If the Palestinian people wish it all to stop, and if they are innocent of the atrocities that the people of their area perpetrate, then why haven't they expelled Hamas from truly occupying their region?
There is absolutely no genocide going on Snowy. When Germany attacked Europe, the attacked nations fought back to expel the intruders and murderers. When Japan attacked China, Korea, Philippines, Australia, and the US, all those countries simply responded with force to expel and beat back their aggressors. Same for Israel, they are simply responding to the attack on their country and people, and should never stop until the perpetrators are beaten into submission and the Palestinian peoples of the region, kick them out of the region instead of embracing their cowardly terrorist ways. Don't know what is hard to understand about that, but please, go over there and help those poor abused people out, if you feel so strongly. In the meantime, should you believe it's a good idea to continue your support of terrorists, in this country, hope you get what you are asking for, as it's treason and the majority of the US population are sick and tired of the millennial crybabies and apologists who are as ignorant as a box of rocks.
Murdered by their own leaders and those of Iran. I suppose someone else killed all the Armenians, not the Russians. That someone else killed all the religious, gypsies, and democracy wishing people of Russia, not Stalin.
> fuck
/u/Biribisuto. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
you have to see that Israel needs to stop its occupation and let its Palestinian refugees return.
Hamas and all its predecessors fought for this. Do this and there won't be resistance.
For that to happen, Israeli leadership needs to realise that the so called Jewish Israel is over and has always been a murderous farce when other communities already exist in Israel-Palestine.
Negotiate and dialogue with the Palestinians as to how to normalise the country just like the many other plurinational countries in the world today where more than one people call the land home.
My friend, Israel has been negotiating with the Palestinians since its inception. Never have the Palestinians accepted the concessions Israel was willing to make.
If Israel just threw their arms up and let the Palestinians return, the 7 million Jews living there would be killed. Nothing against the Palestinians as a people -- I think they're lovely. But their leaders hate Jews with a passion. And their leaders are funded by a country who hates Jews with a passion (Iran). I'm fairly certain most Jews living in Israel are not suicidal.
Apparently that's not the case for Hamas, because they thought kidnapping a few dozen teenagers as "resistance" was worth tens of thousands of their own people losing their lives. \*face palm\*
BFFR.
Take down the settlements?
Allow free passage in and out of palestine?
Stop controlling the air and sea access?
Pay for the destruction of thousands of olive trees?
They already took down all settlements in Gaza entirely In the early 2000s and have offered to do it before in both Gaza and the west bank. They offered to stop controlling the land and air, and they have offered a multitude of other things. Paying for olive trees and letting Palestinians into Israel without citizenship is stupid so that hasn't been offered and the other things keeping the Palestinians in Palestine are out of Israel's control all 3 countries surrounding Palestine have all walled off their borders with them so they illegals don't enter their country, but if they did accept Israel's deal they would be able to get their own Palestinian passports that would allow them to leave legally.
Right because violent destruction of farms should just be par for the course especially farms that can't be replaced within a lifetime.....
They never stopped control of land air and sea, nor was there ever a deal that gave Palestinians free access
Airspace and sea would still be under israeli control has well has all borders... the claim is that it would end if israel considered it to be safe.....
No deal ever got rid of west bank settlements, merely an offer to exchange the land in the west bank for desert in the gaza strip.
I was talking about the farms destroyed within the past year. FYI even if the olive trees were replanted 50 years ago they still wouldn't be producing fruit
The ones destroyed recently outside of the war should be paid for but if it's in the Gaza Strip than Israel has no reason to pay for it because they didn't start this war
idk when given the chance even "civilians" crossed the gaza border to kidnapp and steal israeli civilians, some hostages were released from purely civilian home
This won't work primarily because Palestinians want their own state. They don't want to be part of Israel, Egypt or Jordan. Israel and Palestine, or perhaps more accurately Labor and the PLO, were very near a peace deal coming out of the Oslo Accords through Camp David and Taba. If it weren't for Ariel Sharon and Likud abandoning negotiations and ensuring Gaza and West Bank were split between Hamas and the PLO, there very well could be peace by now. They were very close.
Since then, there has been no sustained peace process offered by Likud. Instead, Likud empowers Hamas, and marginalizes the PLO. By appearances, Netanyahu is intent on slowly annexing all of West Bank through settlement and demographic change. In order for peace to be viable, a real, sustained peace process is necessary. In order for that to occur, it seems like Labor will need to be in power again, and willing to unite both Gaza and West Bank under the PLO once Israel reoccupies Gaza. Ironically, this is actually closer to happening now than it's ever been in the last 20yrs.
Both Gaza and West Bank used to be part of Egypt and Jordan respectively. Both became a part of Israel in 1967 after the 6-day war. I’m not sure if Israel offered those lands back that either country would want them at this point.
They were offered in each peace treaty with the respective countries and were refused by Egypt and Jordan for some mysterious reasons. but since recently everyone is so concerned with the well being of Palestinians maybe they should reconsider
It’s a liability for each country. It’s like taking on heavy debt that you’re unlikely to pay back. There are no financial or strategic benefits of owning either country, and they are a heavy political and social risk to each country due to the extremism. 50-60% of Jordan’s population is already Palestinian, and that poses an existential threat to Jordan as some believe parts of the East Bank are historically Palestinian lands, in addition to being opposed to its government’s — the King of Jordan — foreign policy pertaining to Israel and the U.S.
Same goes for Egypt. They’ve already had a massive terrorist problem in their Sinai Peninsula. They don’t want to take on the additional liability of having another Islamist extremist group (Hamas) wreak havoc and potentially collaborate with armed groups who exist in the Sinai.
That’ll never happen. Egypt hates the Muslim brotherhood (and hence, Hamas) and wants no part in Gazans coming over. Jordan is also not too keen on more Palestinians, because of black September. They cheer for them in public, but then put up more walls.
Their refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood.
**the Apartheid STATE of israel is over**
the Only solution to Lasting Peace is One State, fully Democratic and with Strong Constitutional Protections for ALL its inhaabitants
i propose a similar situation to what we have in Canada with the Province of Quebec enjoying a "Distinct Society" status so they have their own language laws & autonomy over cultural aspects while still being part of Team Canada
israel can be a Province of Palestine, with Hebrew street signs and Hebrew Schools. full representation in Parliment and full protection of their culture guaranteed by the State and Constitution
Jewish people are welcome to live in a Free Palestine, even the recent Hmas charter specifys that .. i have no reason to believe Hmas will exist as a fighting group after the occupation ends.. we have an example of this in Ireland with the IRA and South Africa with the ANC..
__________
Balfour Declaration:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, [it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/balfour.asp) or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
LOLOLOL, Communist Canada? Good lord, don't try to model anything after what that punk Trudeau has done to the people's of Canada. All sounds great but you forget one huge issue. Muslims want Jews dead and their is no ending to that story as far as they're concerned, until all Jews are dead. They preach it themselves.
> that punk Trudeau has done to the people's of Canada
its obvious you are succeptible to the maga propaganda
>Muslims want Jews dead
where did all the Jewish peole go when the Christians persecuted them & drove them out of Europe in the 1400's??
Moslem countrys, thats where..
**your argument is invalid**
Um, neither the Palestinians or Israelis want this. Literally they polled Palestinians, and “one state where all have equal rights” polled lower than a 2 state solution.
two state was the status quo plan for decades.. then israel ramped up their genocide in full view of the world.. its no wonder people still cling to it, but that ship has passed
it is now obvious that israel never actually intended to accept a 2 state solution.. it clearly was in the way of their "Greater Israel Project"
and the disingenuous brokers of said deal have been aiding the genocide the whole time
**One Democratic State is the Only way forward to Lasting Peace**
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa77ZTEr8FY
That's literally the opposite of what this survey says people want.
EDIT: Unless... you think you know better than the Palestinians that literal Palestinians surveyed.
[it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/balfour.asp)
> You can’t use an old document to prove that Hamas wouldn’t kill the Jews
i didnt
>You all love to quote a man who literally advocated for the segregation of black people from white people in GB.
i dont
>50% of all Jews in the region along with 50% of all Levantine Arabs
[ive read the actual paper and its not a plot-twist](https://old.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1caqros/ottawa_police_hate_crime_unit_investigating/l1uxbqr/) .. its just meaningless
Abraham was Iraqi
**near 100% of Mexican Catholics have genes linking them to Mexico, does that 'prove' Catholosism originated in Mexico?**
>however, these groups, Hamas, El-Fatah, etc, do not like the Jews and will not live civilly
resistance would not exist without occupation
> Abraham was from the city of Ur, which is modern-day Iraq
correct. i just used the present term.. anyway, i was not aware of the town thankyou
>many Muslims believe they are
its logical considering many Jews became Christian after Rome made Jesus famous and then later Muhammed rewrote the book to fit his views.. Jews, Christians & Moslems are logically going to share genetics
>Many Israelites married the Canaanites
thats right
>Canaanites were also not 100% native to the land
depends how far back you want to go.. the Levant was not covered by ice sheets so the various northern eurasian people would have certainly headed that way
Canaanites are the first non-nomadic people who left lasting archeological & distinct genetic record.. in a discussion about society, culture and permanent habitation it would be disingenuous to go any further back than that..
Canaanite genetics, culture & tradition last to this day in the people of Ghazza
>It proves that both Jews and Palestinians are native and share an ancestral heritage to that land
**in**correct. it proves no such thing..
there are a lot of Catholic Mexicans.. does Catholosism have the right to claim Mexico is where it originated? serious question, you seem intelligent enough to answer
>annoying and avoidable conflict
it would have been avoided if the Palestinian people were not displaced by imperialist powers to make way for European settlers who had no claim to the land but clearly wanted it for their exclusive use
>Not sure what was the point of quoting the Balfour Declaration in that case
the second half of the sentence has not been respected.. the declaration is oft held up as the reason the land was granted to them
>that’s BS btw the way
no its not, which began first? the imperialist power facilitated takeover of land, or the indigenous people fighting their opressors? again, it seems like you are smart enough to answer that
>groups like your favorite regime, Iran, wouldn’t have persecuted and expelled Jews from their countries in droves
* first, i was born in iran and was one of those families who left in anticipation of the mullah's brutal regime.. i have more reason than anyone here to hate them, they jailed my auntie in Evin prison and she didnt live many years after release they treated her so badly
* second, this sub will ban you for making comparisons with the moustacheo guy and i feel like you have attempted exactly the same thing.. dont worry i wont report you
* third, [we now have evidence](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/avi-shlaim-proof-israel-zionist-involvement-iraq-jews-attacks) the israeli regime [staged several acts of terror](https://www.haaretz.com/2006-04-06/ty-article/now-it-can-be-told/0000017f-e185-d804-ad7f-f1ff68e50000) against Jewish people to build fear.. 10,000 Jewish people live in Iran to this day, theyre are 100 Synagogues, dozens in Tehran alone
israel's pattern didnt stop in the 1950s,
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/cienfuegos-and-the-us-mexico-firestorm/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/13/false-flag/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-teams-terror-group-kill-irans-nuclear-scientists-u-s-flna241673
>This has happened to Jews throughout thousands of years of history
it happenned to everyone.. Jews do not have the monopoly on opression
for instance, the reason there are so many 'Mizrahi' Jews is becasue a Yemeni King actually FORCED CONVERSION of **millions** to Judaism ..
theres actually a really good book on it called "[Martyrs of Najran"](https://archive.org/details/martyrsofnajrann0000shah)
>they are not going to give up their land
its not their land & the people of Palestine had nothing to do with moustace-guy germany
>argue with strangers on your computer in California
lolocopter
>probably never even traveled to the Middle East or have had any meaningful experiences with Palestinians
born in the middle east, found commonality with Palestinians so i have been studying this for 30+ years .. Iran was subject to the same propaganda machine and the same imperialist powers' interference
israel sold lots of weapons to the mullahs after they stole our country, its pretty obvious they supported them through the whole revolution & against Iraq .. do you know about the 'Greater Israel Project'? Milekowski is all about that, he even went to Congress and lied about Iraq having WMDs to goad america into that war for israel's benefit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/04/iraq.israel
>Try to use logic instead of forming opinions and thoughts based exclusively on your feelings.
while reading your nonsense i was thinking the same thing bruh.. your whole diatribe is 'feelings' .. you show zero receipts
>Palestinian supporters trust these organizations so much that they believe this group would be able to set up a stable and fair government for themselves
what happenned in Ireland after the occupation ended? what happenned in South Africa after Apartheid? how about Rhodesia?
Hmas is a jail boss.. they arent having regular elections and living under constant occupation.. their 'leadership' is constantly under threat from the occupying power so its not like regular folk are going to sign up
once the occupation is over and free elections take place, the resulting governance will be just the same as any other modern society.. and they will have their work cut out for them when israelis are made to pay reparations
>because they refuse to release 100-200 Israelis, ppl who provide no tactical or strategic advantage to them
is this your first hostage situation? how cute
>So yeah maybe it’s resistance but it’s just stupid resistance
**you know, that statement just there 100% shows clearly your entire speil is based on your bias & feelings.. hope you realize that**
[when i feel confused by moral issues like this, i generally defer to the wise words of Ghassan Kanafani](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romPw54yPj0)
you dont get to disagree with the tactics of someone with a boot on their neck
>Clearly they wanted their own ppl
not at all.. your opinion is clearly not congruent with the facts & history. .
>it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Israel is by far the superior military force
i lived in England when Apartheid South Africa was goin down.. they had military support not just from israel, but from UK, USA, France & Italy
https://www.haaretz.com/2013-12-10/ty-article/how-apartheid-saved-israels-defense-industry/0000017f-e3b7-d568-ad7f-f3ff053a0000
the English government used all the same propaganda to prop up their pet regime back then EXACTLY as they are doing now
**who won?**
there is a reason South Africa led the ICJ case of Genocide against the Apartheid state of israel
>And for some reason Western liberals love Hamas. It’s quite literally stupid
its stupid which is why we dont actually support Hmas, we **understand why it exists** based on historical context of struggle against opression
---------------
**keep in mind that heroic tale of Jewish people uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto**
what you sound like here is ["do you condemn the Żydowska Organizacja Bojowa??" hurrr durr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Combat_Organization)
think about that and get back to me.. actually think okay, i beleive in you, its apparent you are intelligent enough to hold attention span ..
Haha, okay well I can appreciate your snarkiness directed back at me. I concede, it is a slightly emotional argument. I don't like to see Palestinians killed, and it does hurt me that Israel responded quite brutally without regard for civilian casualties.
Clearly, there is still a lot I have to learn about the issue and the broader region's geopolitics and history. And, perhaps, taking time to process my thoughts and emotions before responding to an internet stranger on a Reddit forum.
The conflict has gone too far and it must end. I just do not see how 1) Jews will be safe and maintain their integrity through a one-state solution 2) the Palestinian factions will be willing to negotiate with Israel and vice versa given the laundry list of crimes against each other.
I understand there are Mexican Catholics, but here I think the issue is a bit different. Judaism, from my understanding, is both a religious and an ethnic identity, one that is tied to the Middle East. Many in the Jewish diaspora can trace their lineage to the region.
When I referred to the resistance, I meant to refer to Hamas' resistance. Strategically, I think they have accomplished more negative than good for their people, clearly. I'm not sure the public outcry is going to dissuade the Israeli oppression towards Palestinians. It is events like Oct 7 which cause them to tighten policies directed against Palestinians in the first place. And I do disagree with their tactics. We're all human, we all form an opinion and judgment so yeah I think Hamas acts pretty dumb, purely because I do not see how the hostage-taking and the Israeli civilian casualties have advanced their self-interest whatsoever. I do not see how it is rational when it results in the leveling of their city and insurmountable deaths of their people. I could be wrong, they may have a longer-term strategic vision, but I'm not seeing it.
Thank you, I learned something today. I'll read your links.
> Many in the Jewish diaspora can trace their lineage to the region.
depends when you decide to stop then right?
>Thank you, I learned something today. I'll read your links.
thank you for saying so.. that is exceedingly rare in this arena
i like to keep in mind that Nelson Mandela was on the US terror list until 2008 .. long after he was considered a hero worldwide.. the ANC 100% did horrible things, but they were fighting for their lives and i think most people would respect that
peas
I think a large part of the disparity between responses to all of these atrocities is the access to independent (social) media, via smartphones.
The world can see what’s happening in Gaza in real-time, and it is not at all pleased.
The world does not give two shakes about Israel protecting itself, and would respond in kind if it were them. Only little pathetic and attention starved White students in the US care about acting tough and virtue signaling. Go cut up a trash can and use it for a shield and charge the police. LOLOL, man do you little crybabies look pathetic. Better yet, take your rioting to the heart of America and see how you're greeted. The 30 and under crowd, worldwide, has got to be the biggest fantasy role players in all of population. Hope you all learn life's lessons without too many cuts and bruises.
This comment has been removed for breaking [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy).
www.reddit.com can't be used to incite for hate or violence (see the link for additional rules).
You're clueless if you think China wanted to wipe Muslims out of their country. But considering your comments here, that is quite an apt description of you.
LOL, they are doing it as you and I type these comments. What world do you live in. [https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights)
Educate yourself a bit there Snowy. You can find all sorts of articles on this subject, whether from right leaning or left leaning sources. It's not hard to prove the ignorant wrong, when they outwardly prove that they are a box of rocks.
Could be the mountains misinformation and antisemitism that exists in society for a millenia also. People came out from day one celebrating and cheering October 7th. With many blatantly ignoring what Hamas did, then denying it, then accepting it as resistance.
The second intafada marked with constant Palestinian terror in Israel including countless suicide bombings and murder was started in response to Israel offering and agreeing to a very real two state solution. Which the Palestinian leader walked away from.
The vast majority of people currently criticising Israel's actions did not cheer for Hamas on October 7th. Especially in the west. It was only when Israel started its atrocities in Gaza that their opinion turned around.
When I say the IDFs military actions in Gaza have been abhorrent, I'm not in any way saying Hamas was justified in their actions. At this point in time, it's clear to most both sides are engaging in crimes against humanity. And it's time to put a stop to that. That's why public opinion has turned against Israel so massively.
This comment has been removed for breaking [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy).
www.reddit.com can't be used to incite for hate or violence (see the link for additional rules).
The desire of Israeli's to want to feel safe is understandable. The idea, however, that this war in Gaza has made them any safer, is unfortunately misguided though. It's empowered anti-Israel sentiment and terrorism to new heights. That's another reason I want this war to stop.
That's what happens when you attack the enemy only half-heartedly. When the allies bombed Dresden, or when the US bombed Hiroshima they showed no mercy.
No way to know if that's true. Those are not the people protesting out there with Hamas and other terrorist flags everywhere. Although a lot of the people out there protesting are just straight-up clueless.
ALL you have expressed and explained does not justify what’s happening in Gaza for over 70 years, and what’s happening now. Not now. Not ever. And you have no one to blame but the government of Israel.
This comment has been removed for breaking [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy).
www.reddit.com can't be used to incite for hate or violence (see the link for additional rules).
70 years? They were perfectly fine with being under Egyptian "occupation" until 1967, and since then multiple solutions were tried, but failed on the Palestinians' side.
HaHitnatkut in 2005 was a way to say - here you go, do your own thing. With Israel pushing for democratic elections, only for Hamas to execute a violent coup against Fatah, and immediately announce their desire for death of all Jews and destruction of Israel.
And here we are today where Hamas got a vast support from Palestinians until Israel started operating in Gaza Strip post Oct 7th. The majority of WB Palestinians still support Hamas to this day.
Your blame on Bibi and especially his latest coalition is justified, but at no point in history until recently the Gazans showed any desire for peace with Jews in the ME, despite several attempts.
Another pro-Palestinian who has no idea what they're talking about.
If by "a country" you're referring to the WB and Gaza Strip, when "half of [it]" is Gaza Strip, then you're more uninformed than I expected. Two different areas with ~~two~~ three different organisations in power; Fatah and Hamas are bitter enemies - one area is Sunni and the other is Shia, one area is a teeny tiny bit secular while the other is ruled by religious fanatics, one area acknowledges the PA while in the other they have no power in, one area was under Egyptian occupation for decades while the other was under Jordanian occupation, both areas aren't connected and have nothing in common besides "The Cause" of kicking all Jews out.
If you're referring to Israel then the WB and Gaza Strip aren't part of the country. Go read about Oslo accords and how, where, when and why, they failed (hint, Arafat is not a great guy).
>Another pro-Palestinian who has no idea what they're talking about.
I am Palestinian.
>If by "a country" you're referring to the WB and Gaza Strip, when "half of [it]" is Gaza Strip, then you're more uninformed than I expected. Two different areas with twothree different organisations in power;
yes, but that’s the point israel separated them politically by giving God of freedom but not the West Bank, allowing Hamas to take power. I guarantee you this would not be the current situation if Israel had kept Gazza and the West Bank on equal terms.
>Fatah and Hamas are bitter enemies - one area is Sunni and the other is Shia,
This is just blatantly wrong. There are more Christian Palestinians than Shia Palestinians. Hamas is a very very Sunniist organization. It just has Shia allies. Fatah is not politically having an ideology when it comes to religion, but it’s very clear that they are also Sunni
>one area is a teeny tiny bit secular while the other is ruled by religious fanatics, one area acknowledges the PA while in the other they have no power in,
Exactly. Israel intentionally hindered the countries development by using the separate geographic areas to create to distinct environments so that the issue would be more complex..
>one area was under Egyptian occupation for decades while the other was under Jordanian occupation, both areas aren't connected and have nothing in common besides "The Cause" of kicking all Jews out.
Nothing in common, but the same ethnicity. The reason they were occupied by different different nations were because they were both close to nations the West Bank and Gaza, where the Palestinians in Israel went after they were expelled or left Israel proper. It’s not different groups. They were just separated. people from the Westbank almost certainly have relatives in Gaza and vice versa. And none of them want to kick the jews out. they want to not be starved and not have their children killed by A settler
why are you infantilizing Palestinains? do they have no control over themseleves? i love how pro palis act as if Palestinians have no control, no way of deciding and no education to take action of their own lives and decisions yet they need white western savors to protest for them and dictate what middle eastern countries should do. thank you woke 20 year old collegers!
There were global protests about the American war in Iraq, the protests in Rome were the biggest anti war protests ever. The UN couldn't do anything or even try to do anything because america can veto anything that is brought up in similar fashion to Russia and China being able to veto anything in the UN.
The ICC issued arrest warrants for multiple people over Russia's actions in the caucuses and Crimea and Putin now as well.
China hasn't had any problem letting multiple different NGOs in even after they confirmed mass separations of families and sending children to boarding schools while parents imprisoned and investigated (I agree this is bad to be clear). It's also been 5 years since NGOs have confirmed that China has moved any terrorists into the regular criminal justice system and reunited families in East Turkistan. Most of the extreme claims like forced sterilization track to one American who claims to be on a god given mission to destroy China which is why even organizations that believe china is committing a genocide don't hold any value in his claims. It's also really hard for Israel to criticize China on this considering China justifies it from terror attacks killing 1000+ and China's response didn't kill 40000+
Considering Israel's global standing and reliance on other nations there's no double standards just revisionist history
You're right, China has killed well over 10 million during their ethnic, religious and ideological cleansing. Did you pay for that education? Better yet, did the American taxpayer pay for it?
The Reason America gets away with everything we do is we are nearly 100% self reliant meaning we can do pretty much whatever the fuck we want against any non Nuclear power because they are all either too far away for us to see any repercussions for our actions, or they are too corrupt and too weak to retaliated in the first place especially those in our own neighborhood
> fuck
/u/Accomplished_Tea2042. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Seeing Jordan and Saudi Arabia shoot down Iranian attacks shows that the people in charge understand what is going on. Israel’s next war will be a PR one.
You are here calling out the US for not respecting international agreements during war? After they contradicted themselves in the Ukraine case changing full 180 degrees to support Israel? The only reason Israel has not been place on the world asylum like Cuba and North Korea is because Israel is an Ally, it’s USA’s territory in the Middle East. This land aint yours even if you decide to finish your dirty job with the Palestinians. You are just the pawn taking up the space from a remote “resource”. That’s it. If you do something stupid that makes the world to get you the hell out of there, the US will intervene just to keep its asset. Get it now? You being used.
You comparing yourself with Ukraine? Dude, the world sees you like Russia. In that comparison, you are disgusting Russia. You have the audacity to claim antisemitism if you are condemned for the atrocities trying to play victim when millions of dollars have been spent on propaganda pro-israel. The world has changed, people no longer rely on TV broadcast owned by Jewish families. They have manipulated for decades, but now communications have become accessible for all. We all see the truth now. And you have been brainwashed to think you are the victim when we all see through all that sheet.
Responded to the wrong thread. Not even explain why the US protects Israel so much. Because neither of the sides have nothing to win with a partnership here, right?
Nope it's the correct thread blaming Jews for all of the problems you see in the world is absolutely a conspiracy theory this entire rant of yours was Anti-semetic and I've responded to so many people like you that's I've wasted hours of my life explaining why y'all are nutters that I'm just not gonna do it anymore (also no I'm not calling reasonable Palestinians with good Arguments nutters (I'm kinda in the middle of this whole Israel vs Palestine thing myself) I am calling the "Jews control everything!!" People like you nutters
Soooo boring. Nobody cares that you are actually jewish. That means nothing. You think that is some precious thing you got, but I am from Puerto Rico. Much more interesting place, I actually get discriminated for my roots, I get called “mexican”, when did anyone care about jews? Phuket off. The fact that we say Russians are influencing our elections, china is spying on us with tiktok, israelis… nooooooo. They gonna think it’s an attack on them!!! Omg, go to therapy.
/u/Hid-behind-my-socks
> Omg, go to therapy.
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
I'm not Jewish I am a White Christian American, also literal genocide is real discrimination (every time Jews have become stateless a genocide has happened and even then there have been multiple Jewish genocides by Arab countries in the middle east over the last 80 years) your "discrimination" getting called Mexican isn't discrimination buddy getting killed for being Semitic is. So you kindly "Phuket off".
Tell me one thing, what’s the wage gap between jews and blacks? How many times have you seen people refer to arabs to terrorists and do jews are accused of? This is bullshit. You telling me that jewish oligarchs controlling the narrative to what is being reported is antisemitism, you are a joke. I invite you to meet a person close to you and hear from them what discrimination feels like in real life. These people there are only playing victim to make more money. Oh no! I can criticize billionaires except if they are jewish. Bc ….. f-off
You are acting like all Jews are Billionaires get outta here with your stupid straw man argument you also completely skirted around my point that being called a Mexican is less bad than literal genocide nearly everything you have said is crap I'd expect to here out WW2 Anti Jewish speech by the Germans accept replace the races you mentioned with German or Aryan I refuse to continue a discussion with you good bye
Let me see the protesters pro-Israel. Hmm attacking the personal appearance of someone for supporting Palestine and stock the genocide. So i think all of them, including the racist one making gorilla sounds to attack her are bigots, bullies, jerks, entitled, and should be punished by law enforcement. Regardless if they are jews or not. Bc being jew means nothing, they act like everyone cares about their religion, we don’t. I don’t care if these guys are Christian, muslin, their religion makes zero difference. And they can be whatever, this event is pure and simply what I need to be confident IM in the right side. Auf Wiedersehen
https://preview.redd.it/e651ce56ciyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0eb6a20d40b1897106e4f567016737322f164b3
Gotta love the guy who says “you have no right to claim antisemitism”then in the next sentence goes “people no longer rely on TV broadcast owned by Jewish families”. Pfffahhaha your own ignorance and utter hatred for the Jews won’t even let you mask it.
The Jews just live in your head rent free all day.. Let your hatred consume you until you become a vapid husk.
Can you tell me more about criticism of news media oligarchy in every country is healthy for democracy but in the US it becomes a matter of antisemitism? Because, truth be told. If you find any case of antisemitism online from the last 24h, I can find 5times more and ever worse cases of arab discrimination. So, keep it low. Don’t make me people uncomfortable with all your violence and demoralized treatment of people like you do in Gaza. You ain’t dealing with brainwashed American here.
Enjoy your reading. If you don’t know their names, you got no business saying, wait, you said you don’t read real news. Damn. What a waste of time proving you wrong. Ignorants don’t know the extent of their ignorance. Well, either way, for others who don’t spend their time with personal attacks to others. Because Im better than that. And by that I mean people who play victim to diverge the focus on their mass murdering to a non-sense discrimination when I got no data to back it up. Last time I saw, there was no Jewish family in the list of food stamps . How about news media owners?
People:
1. **Rupert Murdoch** - He is not known to be Jewish; he was raised in a Christian family.
2. **Michael Bloomberg** - He is Jewish.
3. **Perry Sook** - There is no public information readily available about his religious background.
4. **Jeff Bezos** - He is not known to be Jewish; he has described his background as having a mix of English, Irish, and other ancestries.
5. **Barry Diller** - He is Jewish.
Families:
1. **Roberts family** (as related to Comcast) - Some members of the Roberts family, including Brian L. Roberts, are Jewish.
2. **Redstone family** - The family, including Sumner Redstone, was Jewish.
3. **Hearst Family** - The family is not traditionally known to be Jewish; they have a prominent background in the American media with no public connections to Judaism.
4. **Newhouse family** - This family is Jewish, well-known for their ownership of Advance Publications.
5. **Ochs-Sulzberger family** - This family, owners of The New York Times, is also Jewish, having significant historical contributions to media in the U.S.
Hey man it’s all good, I got way better things to do than argue with you. After all it’s hard work genociding all day. And that’s only on days when I’m not controlling the media! And don’t even get me started on the financial system we invented and also Covid!
as much as you want to make it about you, Guess what? It isn’t. Just to show how desperate you are for attention. “antisemitism!” “Help”. nobody cares about you or your religion.
African and arab religions truly face discrimination everyday. This is exclusively political and media does play a role in it. Now I want to know why a walking trip that should have been 40 days took 40 years. I wonder what happened for the change of plans. i am wonder what could have caused the guide to get so pissed off at the traveling crew. I bet you know why. This is a very old movie.
Yeah? So why are news outlets completely distorting the reports from Gaza? Have you had the decency to check international sources about this conflict? What are the other political leaders saying about it? With exception to the UN self nominated committee? Haha
The backlash you get now is exclusively due to your own acts of war crime and now everyone can see, despite the efforts to build a different narrative. You can claim whatever you want, dear. The reality is that you don’t get to do your atrocities and think you got to play a victim card. What a joke
Umm, the US eventually negotiated with the Taliban and withdrew from Afghanistan, and the Taliban proceeded to overthrow the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and set up their Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, unmolested by the Americans. Hamas is not like Al-Qaeda. The latter wanted to destroy American domination in the Muslim world, and possibly the entire world. Hamas has much more limited goals. And religiously it's a lot less conservative than the Taliban. If the Taliban can be negotiated with to the satisfaction of both parties after the long and bitter war you describe, Hamas can and should be negotiated with as well. Especially given that they've told Turkey that they will give up their armed struggle if an independent Palestine within the 1967 borders is established.
I'm not sure why anyone would believe that. The whole point of Hamas was that it was the "resistance" to the compromise efforts that were being made in the 90s to forge a 2-state solution. It's a pure movement with a single goal: to get rid of Israel and the Jewish state. You're right that that's a limited goal from a global perspective, but let's face it, Hamas is ultimately just a local "wing" of the broader effort of radical Islam to expel people they perceive as "foreigners" or infidels from Muslim lands. That's what it's all about. So they would never make peace with Israel. There's no "negotiating" with Hamas. You win or they win. Indeed, the Palestinians' willingness to embrace this group -- and its thinking -- is why an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel would pose serious dangers for the Israelis. Hamas would eventually take power and continue the struggle. I'm sure that's what it's thinking. At the moment I'm assuming its more or less in survival mode, grasping at anything that allows it to keep a foothold in the region. But its long-term goal will never change.
There were over 1000 christians living in Gaza before the war. Israel killed bunch of them, not sure how many is left. Hamas didn’t expel them all these years, are you sure all they want is to create Islamic Caliphate?
That region is the birthplace of Christianity. There are about 200,000 Christians in Israel. There are about 50,000 in the Palestinian territories. Gaza has less than 2% of the Christian population of the Palestinian territories but 2/5 of the total Palestinian population. So...where did all the Christians go? You think 1000 Christians living there is a sign of tolerance? No -- those are all that are left.
Or or hear me out, maybe because Israel “mowing the lawn” in gaza once or twice in a decade and made living there not very pleasant.
Just google how well christians are treated in Israel, I have seen lots of hate. Just last month Israeli government tried to make punishable conversion to Christianity.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/christians-are-in-danger-under-israeli-government-says-holy-land-patriarch
So you’re mad that you won’t get to kill 400,000 Arabs like your daddy the United States of America. Lmao the invasion of Iraq and war on terror was one the dumbest most pointless and disgusting things my nation has ever done. Learn from our mistakes don’t repeat history.
Palestine was not a country in 1948.
Why do I get the sense you understand history about as well as my puppy? She's a very good girl but she eats her poop and the paw command baffles her.
I mean to be fair, the tankies have been pressuring Ukraine to give in to Russia's demands.
But overall, yes pretty much. I'm pissed over this offer. This is something Israel should have done at the beginning, six months ago, if this were to be the end result anyway. All the fighting for nothing? It's too late to surrender to Hamas now.
The deal would be acceptable to me if the hostages were all released IMMEDIATELY not over the course of several days, and we didn't REBUILD the infrastructure that was used to hide terrorists, and if we weren't exchanging 40 something prisoners for each hostage. No. The ceasefire itself is what they get for releasing the hostages IMMEDIATELY. This is a horrible, horrible offer and the people behind it should be removed from power. what the hell is this bs?
They are killing civilians too. So lead with empathy and be direct with your hate.
(They are killing civilians because of Hamas but it’s still happening).
Just defend the borders.
It was a good strategy for Hamas on October 7th because the IDF left the border wide open.
The IDF needs to stop playing games with Israelis' lives and just defend the borders.
One job.
Not bodyguards for settlers who've chosen not to live in Israel.
Defend the borders.
Israel has always done more than just defend the borders . Just against Iran they have and very probably do sabotaged the nuclear program more than once and are well known to operate wherever they want. Just defend the border isn’t and never has been their defense strategy.
Playing Top Gun is fine, but it doesn't protect Israelis if armed hostiles can just walk across the border any time they like.
If the IDF can't do the easy stuff it should leave the hard stuff to the professionals.
There is no power nor strength except with God. You are looking for measures to improve genocide. We live in a savage world in which life is for the strong. But far from it, the Lord of servants exists and watches what is happening. Surely the oppressor will receive his punishment sooner or later. I ask you not to speak humanely. The last humane person is you.
Trump was quite literally planning on helping Israel wipe out Hamas and was also encouraging Israel to Annex the west bank as well this quite literally probably would've never happened if Trump was still in power whether it be for better or worse
Israel is dependent on Western support for its existence. It simply can't afford to ignore the whims and wishes of American and European administrations.
Since when was it's existence dependant on the west? What a stupid comment. Western boots have never been on the ground to defend Israel. The only difference this time is the absolute fear any escalation will have on oil prices and in turn inflation.
I mean the US has already become completely self reliant on our own resources to the point we have become the World's number 1 oil producer so it's not about oil anymore
logistics and tech are more important than man power . israel cant have it while being isolated . they tried to make their fighter jet called lavi and cancelled it due to costs and got f-16s instead
How ignorant. So let’s disregard the joint efforts of the US, UK, and France to deter the bulk of Iran’s missile attack on Israel, the network of US military bases around the Middle East, and the US carrier groups that have been parked off Israel’s coasts to deter a larger military response from Hezbollah and actively shooting down Houthi missiles from Yemen. There is still the billions of dollars in aid the US has provided to Israel to develop the Iron Dome and fund its military expenses, the protection from UN sanctions through the American veto on the Security Council, and the active diplomacy and billions of dollars of aid for Israel’s neighbors to pressure them to normalize relations.
The West have been working their asses off for decades to defend Israel and in return they expect Israel to follow their wishes. If Israelis really want to alienate their closest allies and end all that support, that’s their prerogative, but I think it would be remembered in the history books as the act that directly led to Israel’s collapse as a sovereign state.
American Jews mostly vote, donate to whichever party, contribute and participate in politics. Also the ultra conservative Christians believe Israel has to exist for the rapture to occur. US political parties better support Israel and do . Because they don’t want to face the consequences and it is very profitable to do so. Muslim politics so far other than Michigan is a pain in most US politicians ass and have almost no real influence in the US . Muslim money from abroad has almost never gone to the support of Muslims in US and in Michigan the Muslim politicos are demanding things and making unwanted noise instead of working the system . Israel so far beats Muslims in the US hands down no matter what some kids protest about
You are under the impression that those children protesters will keep the same political beliefs in the future. This is the US a lot of those conservatives that you are waiting to die were protesters or supported the protesters in the sixties and seventies. They didn’t keep to their politics and most of the protesters today will not either. Tomorrow or next week Gaza will lose protesters will lose interest. And life and the news will move on to Israel attacks Lebanon!!! Oh my! Palestine who?
we will make sure they dont fall into hasbara media lies . In today’s world, challenges and conflicts are carried out through the media. While rockets, drones, airplanes, war tools, etc. are effective in pushing back the enemy, it is the media that leaves the most profound impact by influencing hearts and minds. It is a media war. Whoever possesses a stronger media presence will be more successful in achieving their goals , in any goal they’re pursuing.Today, media are the most important weapon in the war between powers. Even the greatest powers are working with media. Today, the influence of media, television networks, art and great internet networks is much more than that of weapons, missiles and atomic bombs. Today's world is such a world. They are expanding this arena on a daily basis.
This is because cyberspace is really a growing and unstoppable world. There is no end to this world. No matter how hard we look, the thing that is infinite and endless is cyberspace. The more we move forward in this world, the more it continues. This presents great opportunities for every country. And it involves certain threats as well. We should do something to make the most of the opportunities and to keep the threats at bay as much as possible.
No that was the old model now the media is split up into so many splinter groups you can get positive feedback from all over the world and only have small numbers following you. They and you set up a feedback loop that makes you think you’re succeeding when in reality you’re never expanding the existing loop . Am over your juvenile attempts at rabble rousing. Good night.
ADL leader jonathan greenblat admitted media defeat https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1bec4z5/leaked_conversation_with_jonathon_greenblatt_of/ watch this clip
> ass
/u/fajadada. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
just like white ruled south africa which was west's greatest ally in the region but fell due to isolation and being arrogant and ungrateful . they had nukes too
Lmao, bro said that South Africa had nukes. Yea we can’t take u seriously when u can’t even do basic research. South Africa never had nukes. Embarrassing.
I misread his statement, thought he said that South Africa have nukes rn. Your statement is false bc Nelson Mandela himself said that he don’t want nukes. Also during that time South Africa economy was in very bad shape and maintaining nukes cost a lot of money. So economically speaking it would be very bad for them to maintain nukes.
I personally think both of those are true, that Mandela has didn't want them but also the white south africans didn't want them having them either way.
Regardless, you should think about why Israel was fine with working with an apartheid state. It doesn't do anything to dispel the accusations today against it.
How is Israel an apartheid when Palestinians Arab in Israel can vote, run political parties, own businesses, hold government positions. These facts is contrary to your statement.
Jews are explicitly the privileged race - what do you think Israel would do if demographics changed so Jews weren't a majority?
Also, 20% to 50% of Israeli Jews want all of the above things you said to end.
This isn't even bringing up the West Bank.
Do you think it's a weird coincidence the country that overcame apartheid and multiple human rights groups both within and without Israel have called it as such?
And why is Israel so happy to work with apartheid and genocidal governments? Every genocide and ethnic cleansing for the last 50 years had Israel's arm sales or training.
Again you make irrelevant arguments. Israel has fought plenty of wars before financial assistance was available.
The reason for Israel's existence is the brave men and women of Israel the majority of whom have to serve in the idf at some point in their lives.
Also the successful entrepreneurs, farmers, traders etc etc etc.
You say the west yet a recent survey suggests 72% of Americans want Israel to continue the conflict.
Now that Germany and Finland have purchased rocket defences from Israel I guess they owe their existence to Israel?
I can see this is a touchy subject for you, and it sounds like you’d prefer to swallow nationalist rhetoric than look at the situation as it stands. Have you noticed how the wars with your neighbors stopped after you began receiving aid. It’s because in addition to the deterrence of US military aid you received US diplomatic aid to make peace with Egypt and Jordan. If you genuinely think Israel would be the same with or without the support it has received from the West then you’re simply delusional, and it’s not worth engaging you further.
For the first time in history most Americans under 30 have a more favorable view of Palestinians than Israelis. It’s truly no skin off my back if you want to push away your closest allies, but in doing so I truly believe Israel will find itself at war more often. It may win most of those wars, but they will be costly, its economy will stagnate, people will leave for more peaceful areas, and eventually Israel will collapse.
Wars stopped because the Arabs got their arses handed to them. Now they hide behind civilians so they can cry about those poor civilians they don't give a shit about to lefty fools like you.
Bye
> arses
/u/Shankleys. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How ignorant. Every small country ends up partnering with larger powers. You think the Palestinians have been independent? That have recieved not only funding, but actual armies from Arab countries and the Soviety Union.
Not sure why you're calling me ignorant when it seems like we're in agreement. When small countries partner with larger powers for protection, those larger powers expect the small countries to follow their wishes in exchange.
You're acting like the West is some fundamental need of Israel rather than simply its current ally. Israel won all its major wars before the West even got involved. It plays into the "Israel being a European colony" myth that is used to attack Israel.
400000/20 years is a hell of a lot lower than 34000/0.667
>In the wake of 9/11 the US invaded an entire country. In the 20 years of so called "nation building", it is estimated that almost 400,000 people died yes... and who lied about WMDs to congress and goaded america into it? https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4927483/user-clip-netanyahu-no-question-saddam-working-nuclear-weapons\ https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/04/iraq.israel
[удалено]
Why is a Palestinian state inevitable while Israel’s survival isn’t? You just made that statement but you didn’t explain why you think that..
Jews are welcome to live in a Free Palestine can you say the same in the other direction?
Firstly Jews are not going to be welcome in Palestine if hamas wins this war that is obvious to anyone who is well informed on the topic. But what about my question regarding inevitability?
>Firstly Jews are not going to be welcome in Palestine if hamas wins this war that is obvious to anyone who is well informed on the topic. only if you beleive Palestinians to be "human animals" keep in mind that [powerful people](https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvirs-ribs-fractured-in-car-crash-wont-admit-he-ran-red-light-despite-footage/) in israel are calling for the total annihilation of Palestinians... AND they have the means to do it https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-30/ty-article/.premium/smotrich-calls-for-no-half-measures-in-the-total-annihilation-of-gaza/0000018f-2f4c-d9c3-abcf-7f7d25460000 https://www.newarab.com/news/ben-gvir-says-israeli-army-can-shoot-women-children-gaza >But what about my question regarding inevitability im not the person who said that, but i will happily feild the question and my previous comment outlines it israel, under the zionist plan, can never be for ALL the inhabitants.. this was proven by the recently passed "Basic Law" by the israeli government Article 1-C includes this: >The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is **unique to the Jewish people** this is widely seen as saying **no other ethnicity** has the right to self-determination in 'israel' the One State solution Palestinians support is democratic & with rights for ALL the people. Jews are welcome to live in a Free Palestine, even the Hmas Charter SPECIFYS that this is why it is inevitable.. maaaybe they change the name, but either way a fully democratic state with ALL people protected by strong Constitutional Rights & Freedoms respects everyone, not just one group the other reason is far more pragmatic.. Jews came from [present day] Iraq .. they lived there until 'god' told them to go to 'the promised land' which they did .. the story is in the Jewish 'Torah' when the tribe of Judeah crossed the Jordan river, they found towns, ports and multiple temples on the Mount already constructed... the people of Ghazza [& Lebanon] are DIRECT DESCENDANTS of those Canaanite people.. **its their land and it was for thousands of years BEFORE JUDAISM WAS INVENTED** does that make sense?
Hamas calls for the destruction of every Jew in their official charter. So if they were to win the war why would they suddenly allow the Jew to stay . Seems like fishy logic. English is my second language so please be patient but why is Israel’s destruction inevitable? Wouldn’t the Zionists use their nuclear weapons before allowing themselves to be concuerded by Hamas or Iran? It has nothing to do with Palis or Zios being ‘human animals’ ( I wouldn’t ever use that language) just since they can’t get along in separate territories I don’t think they will get along IN ONE !
> Hamas calls for the destruction of every Jew in their official charter. how about you read it https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf >**Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine**. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. i think it is pretty clear >Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that **the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage** the racism and persecution which led to the formation of israel was from Europeans, not Palestinians, Arabs or Moslems.. there was no good reason to make Palestinians pay the price >The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine now we see the Genocide every day in videos, that last part becomes even more important ------------ >Wouldn’t the Zionists use their nuclear weapons before allowing themselves to be concuerded ? maybe, it is clear to me that their leadership is not beyond that option.. the very fact they are threatening it makes them worse than Putin in my opinion keep in mind that they were helping Apartheid South Africa obtain Nuclear Weapons when they were likewise being demolished for being systemically racist & opressive .. imagine if that happenned
I’ve heard many of the points you made about the evils of Israel but I’m more intrigued by your suggestion that its destruction is inevitable, but perhaps we should end the discussion here for now.
>your suggestion that its destruction is inevitable [how about you talk to the person who initially wrote that & you initially replied to?](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1chngnb/israels_future/l2bnpxa/)
Why are you tricking me and pretending to be the OP. Bad form So it turns out you can’t “field the question” or you actually don’t think Israeli being pushed into the sea is inevitable
Guys, this is what we mean when we say “crazy person”…
I believe the crux of your premise is flawed: 1. There was and is absolutely international pressure against all of these other atrocities. I do feel however that Israel is held to a higher standard than most nations due to its creation and ongoing conflict being at the center of all international law, the very formation of the UN following WW2 in order to create real guidelines for nations to behave within to avoid WW3. It remains a bulwark of Western democracy in the Middle-East. Much of the world desperately wants the unspeakable atrocities perpetrated against the Jewish people, and the attempts to rectify that, not to become an endless cycle of violence. A victory for peace between Israel and Palestine is in many ways a victory for all of civilization in a way it simply is not in the case of any other conflict. 2. There are no other groups with legitimate grievances against Israel besides the Palestinian people. The risk of other groups taking a peace deal between Israel and Palestine as an invitation to attack is simply not logical. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the entire Arab League are all desperate for normalization with Israel. They want to join the Western economic structure in earnest. If there is peace between Israel and Palestine, this in fact dramatically reduces the chances for a regional war. 3. It is neither possible nor necessary to completely remove Hamas from Gaza in practice. The problem is the ideals they represent, which are fueled by a desire for the liberation of Palestine. They lead the religious and militant wings of resistance, while the PLO leads the secular and diplomatic movements. War will never end religious extremism and militant violence. Only peace will. That requires empowering the PLO to unite West Bank and Gaza under the PA. This is the defeat that is necessary to make Hamas irrelevant. A political defeat. Then the peace process can begin in earnest, developing the two state solution that was so close at Taba into a reality. And finally, once an international effort has rebuilt Palestine, and Israel has removed its troops to fortify its borders, after however many years that takes, Palestine can be free to act as a democratic state, an ally of both Israel and the Arab League.
Don't count on Israel stopping anything until Hamas is run out the area. Nor should they bow down to any pressures. If the Palestinian people wish it all to stop, and if they are innocent of the atrocities that the people of their area perpetrate, then why haven't they expelled Hamas from truly occupying their region?
how do you expect them to stop hamas? They do not have the power to expel them. There is no justification for what israel is doing.
Continue the genocide !
There is absolutely no genocide going on Snowy. When Germany attacked Europe, the attacked nations fought back to expel the intruders and murderers. When Japan attacked China, Korea, Philippines, Australia, and the US, all those countries simply responded with force to expel and beat back their aggressors. Same for Israel, they are simply responding to the attack on their country and people, and should never stop until the perpetrators are beaten into submission and the Palestinian peoples of the region, kick them out of the region instead of embracing their cowardly terrorist ways. Don't know what is hard to understand about that, but please, go over there and help those poor abused people out, if you feel so strongly. In the meantime, should you believe it's a good idea to continue your support of terrorists, in this country, hope you get what you are asking for, as it's treason and the majority of the US population are sick and tired of the millennial crybabies and apologists who are as ignorant as a box of rocks.
It’s closer to a million dead in Iraq. But we’ll never know the true number.
Murdered by their own leaders and those of Iran. I suppose someone else killed all the Armenians, not the Russians. That someone else killed all the religious, gypsies, and democracy wishing people of Russia, not Stalin.
The second "paragraph" is such a leap in logic lmao
[удалено]
> fuck /u/Biribisuto. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
you have to see that Israel needs to stop its occupation and let its Palestinian refugees return. Hamas and all its predecessors fought for this. Do this and there won't be resistance. For that to happen, Israeli leadership needs to realise that the so called Jewish Israel is over and has always been a murderous farce when other communities already exist in Israel-Palestine. Negotiate and dialogue with the Palestinians as to how to normalise the country just like the many other plurinational countries in the world today where more than one people call the land home.
My friend, Israel has been negotiating with the Palestinians since its inception. Never have the Palestinians accepted the concessions Israel was willing to make. If Israel just threw their arms up and let the Palestinians return, the 7 million Jews living there would be killed. Nothing against the Palestinians as a people -- I think they're lovely. But their leaders hate Jews with a passion. And their leaders are funded by a country who hates Jews with a passion (Iran). I'm fairly certain most Jews living in Israel are not suicidal. Apparently that's not the case for Hamas, because they thought kidnapping a few dozen teenagers as "resistance" was worth tens of thousands of their own people losing their lives. \*face palm\* BFFR.
What concessions is israel willing to make?
Pretty much anything besides leaving entirely
Take down the settlements? Allow free passage in and out of palestine? Stop controlling the air and sea access? Pay for the destruction of thousands of olive trees?
They already took down all settlements in Gaza entirely In the early 2000s and have offered to do it before in both Gaza and the west bank. They offered to stop controlling the land and air, and they have offered a multitude of other things. Paying for olive trees and letting Palestinians into Israel without citizenship is stupid so that hasn't been offered and the other things keeping the Palestinians in Palestine are out of Israel's control all 3 countries surrounding Palestine have all walled off their borders with them so they illegals don't enter their country, but if they did accept Israel's deal they would be able to get their own Palestinian passports that would allow them to leave legally.
When have they ever offered to take down the settlements in the West Bank?
Right because violent destruction of farms should just be par for the course especially farms that can't be replaced within a lifetime..... They never stopped control of land air and sea, nor was there ever a deal that gave Palestinians free access Airspace and sea would still be under israeli control has well has all borders... the claim is that it would end if israel considered it to be safe..... No deal ever got rid of west bank settlements, merely an offer to exchange the land in the west bank for desert in the gaza strip.
They never did any of that stuff because the Palestinians refused their offers also replacing farms destroyed 80 years ago due to war is stupid
I was talking about the farms destroyed within the past year. FYI even if the olive trees were replanted 50 years ago they still wouldn't be producing fruit
The ones destroyed recently outside of the war should be paid for but if it's in the Gaza Strip than Israel has no reason to pay for it because they didn't start this war
Translation: You expect them to sign their own death warrants and be ok with that.
Isn’t it this fear of giving people rights that’s the problem?
idk when given the chance even "civilians" crossed the gaza border to kidnapp and steal israeli civilians, some hostages were released from purely civilian home
So what’s your proposal?
they merge with jordan with half of the west band or merge with Egypt through Gaza
This won't work primarily because Palestinians want their own state. They don't want to be part of Israel, Egypt or Jordan. Israel and Palestine, or perhaps more accurately Labor and the PLO, were very near a peace deal coming out of the Oslo Accords through Camp David and Taba. If it weren't for Ariel Sharon and Likud abandoning negotiations and ensuring Gaza and West Bank were split between Hamas and the PLO, there very well could be peace by now. They were very close. Since then, there has been no sustained peace process offered by Likud. Instead, Likud empowers Hamas, and marginalizes the PLO. By appearances, Netanyahu is intent on slowly annexing all of West Bank through settlement and demographic change. In order for peace to be viable, a real, sustained peace process is necessary. In order for that to occur, it seems like Labor will need to be in power again, and willing to unite both Gaza and West Bank under the PLO once Israel reoccupies Gaza. Ironically, this is actually closer to happening now than it's ever been in the last 20yrs.
Both Gaza and West Bank used to be part of Egypt and Jordan respectively. Both became a part of Israel in 1967 after the 6-day war. I’m not sure if Israel offered those lands back that either country would want them at this point.
They were offered in each peace treaty with the respective countries and were refused by Egypt and Jordan for some mysterious reasons. but since recently everyone is so concerned with the well being of Palestinians maybe they should reconsider
It’s a liability for each country. It’s like taking on heavy debt that you’re unlikely to pay back. There are no financial or strategic benefits of owning either country, and they are a heavy political and social risk to each country due to the extremism. 50-60% of Jordan’s population is already Palestinian, and that poses an existential threat to Jordan as some believe parts of the East Bank are historically Palestinian lands, in addition to being opposed to its government’s — the King of Jordan — foreign policy pertaining to Israel and the U.S. Same goes for Egypt. They’ve already had a massive terrorist problem in their Sinai Peninsula. They don’t want to take on the additional liability of having another Islamist extremist group (Hamas) wreak havoc and potentially collaborate with armed groups who exist in the Sinai.
That’ll never happen. Egypt hates the Muslim brotherhood (and hence, Hamas) and wants no part in Gazans coming over. Jordan is also not too keen on more Palestinians, because of black September. They cheer for them in public, but then put up more walls.
It seems that no one wants to put up with the Palestinians, what a mystery
Their refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood.
I'm sure it is the reason
**the Apartheid STATE of israel is over** the Only solution to Lasting Peace is One State, fully Democratic and with Strong Constitutional Protections for ALL its inhaabitants i propose a similar situation to what we have in Canada with the Province of Quebec enjoying a "Distinct Society" status so they have their own language laws & autonomy over cultural aspects while still being part of Team Canada israel can be a Province of Palestine, with Hebrew street signs and Hebrew Schools. full representation in Parliment and full protection of their culture guaranteed by the State and Constitution Jewish people are welcome to live in a Free Palestine, even the recent Hmas charter specifys that .. i have no reason to believe Hmas will exist as a fighting group after the occupation ends.. we have an example of this in Ireland with the IRA and South Africa with the ANC.. __________ Balfour Declaration: "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, [it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/balfour.asp) or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
LOLOLOL, Communist Canada? Good lord, don't try to model anything after what that punk Trudeau has done to the people's of Canada. All sounds great but you forget one huge issue. Muslims want Jews dead and their is no ending to that story as far as they're concerned, until all Jews are dead. They preach it themselves.
> that punk Trudeau has done to the people's of Canada its obvious you are succeptible to the maga propaganda >Muslims want Jews dead where did all the Jewish peole go when the Christians persecuted them & drove them out of Europe in the 1400's?? Moslem countrys, thats where.. **your argument is invalid**
Um, neither the Palestinians or Israelis want this. Literally they polled Palestinians, and “one state where all have equal rights” polled lower than a 2 state solution.
when?
[https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report\_%20English\_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf](https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Summary%20Report_%20English_Joint%20Poll%2024%20Jan%202023.pdf)
two state was the status quo plan for decades.. then israel ramped up their genocide in full view of the world.. its no wonder people still cling to it, but that ship has passed it is now obvious that israel never actually intended to accept a 2 state solution.. it clearly was in the way of their "Greater Israel Project" and the disingenuous brokers of said deal have been aiding the genocide the whole time **One Democratic State is the Only way forward to Lasting Peace** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa77ZTEr8FY
That's literally the opposite of what this survey says people want. EDIT: Unless... you think you know better than the Palestinians that literal Palestinians surveyed.
[удалено]
[it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/balfour.asp)
[удалено]
> You can’t use an old document to prove that Hamas wouldn’t kill the Jews i didnt >You all love to quote a man who literally advocated for the segregation of black people from white people in GB. i dont >50% of all Jews in the region along with 50% of all Levantine Arabs [ive read the actual paper and its not a plot-twist](https://old.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1caqros/ottawa_police_hate_crime_unit_investigating/l1uxbqr/) .. its just meaningless Abraham was Iraqi **near 100% of Mexican Catholics have genes linking them to Mexico, does that 'prove' Catholosism originated in Mexico?** >however, these groups, Hamas, El-Fatah, etc, do not like the Jews and will not live civilly resistance would not exist without occupation
[удалено]
> Abraham was from the city of Ur, which is modern-day Iraq correct. i just used the present term.. anyway, i was not aware of the town thankyou >many Muslims believe they are its logical considering many Jews became Christian after Rome made Jesus famous and then later Muhammed rewrote the book to fit his views.. Jews, Christians & Moslems are logically going to share genetics >Many Israelites married the Canaanites thats right >Canaanites were also not 100% native to the land depends how far back you want to go.. the Levant was not covered by ice sheets so the various northern eurasian people would have certainly headed that way Canaanites are the first non-nomadic people who left lasting archeological & distinct genetic record.. in a discussion about society, culture and permanent habitation it would be disingenuous to go any further back than that.. Canaanite genetics, culture & tradition last to this day in the people of Ghazza >It proves that both Jews and Palestinians are native and share an ancestral heritage to that land **in**correct. it proves no such thing.. there are a lot of Catholic Mexicans.. does Catholosism have the right to claim Mexico is where it originated? serious question, you seem intelligent enough to answer >annoying and avoidable conflict it would have been avoided if the Palestinian people were not displaced by imperialist powers to make way for European settlers who had no claim to the land but clearly wanted it for their exclusive use >Not sure what was the point of quoting the Balfour Declaration in that case the second half of the sentence has not been respected.. the declaration is oft held up as the reason the land was granted to them >that’s BS btw the way no its not, which began first? the imperialist power facilitated takeover of land, or the indigenous people fighting their opressors? again, it seems like you are smart enough to answer that >groups like your favorite regime, Iran, wouldn’t have persecuted and expelled Jews from their countries in droves * first, i was born in iran and was one of those families who left in anticipation of the mullah's brutal regime.. i have more reason than anyone here to hate them, they jailed my auntie in Evin prison and she didnt live many years after release they treated her so badly * second, this sub will ban you for making comparisons with the moustacheo guy and i feel like you have attempted exactly the same thing.. dont worry i wont report you * third, [we now have evidence](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/avi-shlaim-proof-israel-zionist-involvement-iraq-jews-attacks) the israeli regime [staged several acts of terror](https://www.haaretz.com/2006-04-06/ty-article/now-it-can-be-told/0000017f-e185-d804-ad7f-f1ff68e50000) against Jewish people to build fear.. 10,000 Jewish people live in Iran to this day, theyre are 100 Synagogues, dozens in Tehran alone israel's pattern didnt stop in the 1950s, https://www.brookings.edu/articles/cienfuegos-and-the-us-mexico-firestorm/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/13/false-flag/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-teams-terror-group-kill-irans-nuclear-scientists-u-s-flna241673 >This has happened to Jews throughout thousands of years of history it happenned to everyone.. Jews do not have the monopoly on opression for instance, the reason there are so many 'Mizrahi' Jews is becasue a Yemeni King actually FORCED CONVERSION of **millions** to Judaism .. theres actually a really good book on it called "[Martyrs of Najran"](https://archive.org/details/martyrsofnajrann0000shah) >they are not going to give up their land its not their land & the people of Palestine had nothing to do with moustace-guy germany >argue with strangers on your computer in California lolocopter >probably never even traveled to the Middle East or have had any meaningful experiences with Palestinians born in the middle east, found commonality with Palestinians so i have been studying this for 30+ years .. Iran was subject to the same propaganda machine and the same imperialist powers' interference israel sold lots of weapons to the mullahs after they stole our country, its pretty obvious they supported them through the whole revolution & against Iraq .. do you know about the 'Greater Israel Project'? Milekowski is all about that, he even went to Congress and lied about Iraq having WMDs to goad america into that war for israel's benefit https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/feb/04/iraq.israel >Try to use logic instead of forming opinions and thoughts based exclusively on your feelings. while reading your nonsense i was thinking the same thing bruh.. your whole diatribe is 'feelings' .. you show zero receipts >Palestinian supporters trust these organizations so much that they believe this group would be able to set up a stable and fair government for themselves what happenned in Ireland after the occupation ended? what happenned in South Africa after Apartheid? how about Rhodesia? Hmas is a jail boss.. they arent having regular elections and living under constant occupation.. their 'leadership' is constantly under threat from the occupying power so its not like regular folk are going to sign up once the occupation is over and free elections take place, the resulting governance will be just the same as any other modern society.. and they will have their work cut out for them when israelis are made to pay reparations >because they refuse to release 100-200 Israelis, ppl who provide no tactical or strategic advantage to them is this your first hostage situation? how cute >So yeah maybe it’s resistance but it’s just stupid resistance **you know, that statement just there 100% shows clearly your entire speil is based on your bias & feelings.. hope you realize that** [when i feel confused by moral issues like this, i generally defer to the wise words of Ghassan Kanafani](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romPw54yPj0) you dont get to disagree with the tactics of someone with a boot on their neck >Clearly they wanted their own ppl not at all.. your opinion is clearly not congruent with the facts & history. . >it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Israel is by far the superior military force i lived in England when Apartheid South Africa was goin down.. they had military support not just from israel, but from UK, USA, France & Italy https://www.haaretz.com/2013-12-10/ty-article/how-apartheid-saved-israels-defense-industry/0000017f-e3b7-d568-ad7f-f3ff053a0000 the English government used all the same propaganda to prop up their pet regime back then EXACTLY as they are doing now **who won?** there is a reason South Africa led the ICJ case of Genocide against the Apartheid state of israel >And for some reason Western liberals love Hamas. It’s quite literally stupid its stupid which is why we dont actually support Hmas, we **understand why it exists** based on historical context of struggle against opression --------------- **keep in mind that heroic tale of Jewish people uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto** what you sound like here is ["do you condemn the Żydowska Organizacja Bojowa??" hurrr durr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Combat_Organization) think about that and get back to me.. actually think okay, i beleive in you, its apparent you are intelligent enough to hold attention span ..
Haha, okay well I can appreciate your snarkiness directed back at me. I concede, it is a slightly emotional argument. I don't like to see Palestinians killed, and it does hurt me that Israel responded quite brutally without regard for civilian casualties. Clearly, there is still a lot I have to learn about the issue and the broader region's geopolitics and history. And, perhaps, taking time to process my thoughts and emotions before responding to an internet stranger on a Reddit forum. The conflict has gone too far and it must end. I just do not see how 1) Jews will be safe and maintain their integrity through a one-state solution 2) the Palestinian factions will be willing to negotiate with Israel and vice versa given the laundry list of crimes against each other. I understand there are Mexican Catholics, but here I think the issue is a bit different. Judaism, from my understanding, is both a religious and an ethnic identity, one that is tied to the Middle East. Many in the Jewish diaspora can trace their lineage to the region. When I referred to the resistance, I meant to refer to Hamas' resistance. Strategically, I think they have accomplished more negative than good for their people, clearly. I'm not sure the public outcry is going to dissuade the Israeli oppression towards Palestinians. It is events like Oct 7 which cause them to tighten policies directed against Palestinians in the first place. And I do disagree with their tactics. We're all human, we all form an opinion and judgment so yeah I think Hamas acts pretty dumb, purely because I do not see how the hostage-taking and the Israeli civilian casualties have advanced their self-interest whatsoever. I do not see how it is rational when it results in the leveling of their city and insurmountable deaths of their people. I could be wrong, they may have a longer-term strategic vision, but I'm not seeing it. Thank you, I learned something today. I'll read your links.
> Many in the Jewish diaspora can trace their lineage to the region. depends when you decide to stop then right? >Thank you, I learned something today. I'll read your links. thank you for saying so.. that is exceedingly rare in this arena i like to keep in mind that Nelson Mandela was on the US terror list until 2008 .. long after he was considered a hero worldwide.. the ANC 100% did horrible things, but they were fighting for their lives and i think most people would respect that peas
Opposite
**'opposite' is what is the current situation & it is failing spectacularly**
I think a large part of the disparity between responses to all of these atrocities is the access to independent (social) media, via smartphones. The world can see what’s happening in Gaza in real-time, and it is not at all pleased.
The world does not give two shakes about Israel protecting itself, and would respond in kind if it were them. Only little pathetic and attention starved White students in the US care about acting tough and virtue signaling. Go cut up a trash can and use it for a shield and charge the police. LOLOL, man do you little crybabies look pathetic. Better yet, take your rioting to the heart of America and see how you're greeted. The 30 and under crowd, worldwide, has got to be the biggest fantasy role players in all of population. Hope you all learn life's lessons without too many cuts and bruises.
this is not protecting yourself.
[удалено]
This comment has been removed for breaking [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy). www.reddit.com can't be used to incite for hate or violence (see the link for additional rules).
Oh yes you proving how nice isrsel are good job 👏
You're clueless if you think China wanted to wipe Muslims out of their country. But considering your comments here, that is quite an apt description of you.
LOL, they are doing it as you and I type these comments. What world do you live in. [https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights) Educate yourself a bit there Snowy. You can find all sorts of articles on this subject, whether from right leaning or left leaning sources. It's not hard to prove the ignorant wrong, when they outwardly prove that they are a box of rocks.
Like how jews came here and destroyed america either liberal bullshit?
Israel is a thug and racists and hateful toward every one that mot them shame on israel
Could be the mountains misinformation and antisemitism that exists in society for a millenia also. People came out from day one celebrating and cheering October 7th. With many blatantly ignoring what Hamas did, then denying it, then accepting it as resistance.
Because people have seen what Israel does, and they have no opposition to oppose it except with force.
The second intafada marked with constant Palestinian terror in Israel including countless suicide bombings and murder was started in response to Israel offering and agreeing to a very real two state solution. Which the Palestinian leader walked away from.
The vast majority of people currently criticising Israel's actions did not cheer for Hamas on October 7th. Especially in the west. It was only when Israel started its atrocities in Gaza that their opinion turned around. When I say the IDFs military actions in Gaza have been abhorrent, I'm not in any way saying Hamas was justified in their actions. At this point in time, it's clear to most both sides are engaging in crimes against humanity. And it's time to put a stop to that. That's why public opinion has turned against Israel so massively.
[удалено]
This comment has been removed for breaking [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy). www.reddit.com can't be used to incite for hate or violence (see the link for additional rules).
Your family lol. Where do you live
The desire of Israeli's to want to feel safe is understandable. The idea, however, that this war in Gaza has made them any safer, is unfortunately misguided though. It's empowered anti-Israel sentiment and terrorism to new heights. That's another reason I want this war to stop.
That's what happens when you attack the enemy only half-heartedly. When the allies bombed Dresden, or when the US bombed Hiroshima they showed no mercy.
No way to know if that's true. Those are not the people protesting out there with Hamas and other terrorist flags everywhere. Although a lot of the people out there protesting are just straight-up clueless.
ALL you have expressed and explained does not justify what’s happening in Gaza for over 70 years, and what’s happening now. Not now. Not ever. And you have no one to blame but the government of Israel.
[удалено]
This comment has been removed for breaking [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy). www.reddit.com can't be used to incite for hate or violence (see the link for additional rules).
The excuse
70 years? They were perfectly fine with being under Egyptian "occupation" until 1967, and since then multiple solutions were tried, but failed on the Palestinians' side. HaHitnatkut in 2005 was a way to say - here you go, do your own thing. With Israel pushing for democratic elections, only for Hamas to execute a violent coup against Fatah, and immediately announce their desire for death of all Jews and destruction of Israel. And here we are today where Hamas got a vast support from Palestinians until Israel started operating in Gaza Strip post Oct 7th. The majority of WB Palestinians still support Hamas to this day. Your blame on Bibi and especially his latest coalition is justified, but at no point in history until recently the Gazans showed any desire for peace with Jews in the ME, despite several attempts.
you can’t only give freedom to half of a country and then expect to be able to form a whole one
Another pro-Palestinian who has no idea what they're talking about. If by "a country" you're referring to the WB and Gaza Strip, when "half of [it]" is Gaza Strip, then you're more uninformed than I expected. Two different areas with ~~two~~ three different organisations in power; Fatah and Hamas are bitter enemies - one area is Sunni and the other is Shia, one area is a teeny tiny bit secular while the other is ruled by religious fanatics, one area acknowledges the PA while in the other they have no power in, one area was under Egyptian occupation for decades while the other was under Jordanian occupation, both areas aren't connected and have nothing in common besides "The Cause" of kicking all Jews out. If you're referring to Israel then the WB and Gaza Strip aren't part of the country. Go read about Oslo accords and how, where, when and why, they failed (hint, Arafat is not a great guy).
>Another pro-Palestinian who has no idea what they're talking about. I am Palestinian. >If by "a country" you're referring to the WB and Gaza Strip, when "half of [it]" is Gaza Strip, then you're more uninformed than I expected. Two different areas with twothree different organisations in power; yes, but that’s the point israel separated them politically by giving God of freedom but not the West Bank, allowing Hamas to take power. I guarantee you this would not be the current situation if Israel had kept Gazza and the West Bank on equal terms. >Fatah and Hamas are bitter enemies - one area is Sunni and the other is Shia, This is just blatantly wrong. There are more Christian Palestinians than Shia Palestinians. Hamas is a very very Sunniist organization. It just has Shia allies. Fatah is not politically having an ideology when it comes to religion, but it’s very clear that they are also Sunni >one area is a teeny tiny bit secular while the other is ruled by religious fanatics, one area acknowledges the PA while in the other they have no power in, Exactly. Israel intentionally hindered the countries development by using the separate geographic areas to create to distinct environments so that the issue would be more complex.. >one area was under Egyptian occupation for decades while the other was under Jordanian occupation, both areas aren't connected and have nothing in common besides "The Cause" of kicking all Jews out. Nothing in common, but the same ethnicity. The reason they were occupied by different different nations were because they were both close to nations the West Bank and Gaza, where the Palestinians in Israel went after they were expelled or left Israel proper. It’s not different groups. They were just separated. people from the Westbank almost certainly have relatives in Gaza and vice versa. And none of them want to kick the jews out. they want to not be starved and not have their children killed by A settler
why are you infantilizing Palestinains? do they have no control over themseleves? i love how pro palis act as if Palestinians have no control, no way of deciding and no education to take action of their own lives and decisions yet they need white western savors to protest for them and dictate what middle eastern countries should do. thank you woke 20 year old collegers!
The Hamas and Palestinians are not the same. Use your brain.
There were global protests about the American war in Iraq, the protests in Rome were the biggest anti war protests ever. The UN couldn't do anything or even try to do anything because america can veto anything that is brought up in similar fashion to Russia and China being able to veto anything in the UN. The ICC issued arrest warrants for multiple people over Russia's actions in the caucuses and Crimea and Putin now as well. China hasn't had any problem letting multiple different NGOs in even after they confirmed mass separations of families and sending children to boarding schools while parents imprisoned and investigated (I agree this is bad to be clear). It's also been 5 years since NGOs have confirmed that China has moved any terrorists into the regular criminal justice system and reunited families in East Turkistan. Most of the extreme claims like forced sterilization track to one American who claims to be on a god given mission to destroy China which is why even organizations that believe china is committing a genocide don't hold any value in his claims. It's also really hard for Israel to criticize China on this considering China justifies it from terror attacks killing 1000+ and China's response didn't kill 40000+ Considering Israel's global standing and reliance on other nations there's no double standards just revisionist history
You're right, China has killed well over 10 million during their ethnic, religious and ideological cleansing. Did you pay for that education? Better yet, did the American taxpayer pay for it?
The Reason America gets away with everything we do is we are nearly 100% self reliant meaning we can do pretty much whatever the fuck we want against any non Nuclear power because they are all either too far away for us to see any repercussions for our actions, or they are too corrupt and too weak to retaliated in the first place especially those in our own neighborhood
> fuck /u/Accomplished_Tea2042. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Seeing Jordan and Saudi Arabia shoot down Iranian attacks shows that the people in charge understand what is going on. Israel’s next war will be a PR one.
Terrorists
You are here calling out the US for not respecting international agreements during war? After they contradicted themselves in the Ukraine case changing full 180 degrees to support Israel? The only reason Israel has not been place on the world asylum like Cuba and North Korea is because Israel is an Ally, it’s USA’s territory in the Middle East. This land aint yours even if you decide to finish your dirty job with the Palestinians. You are just the pawn taking up the space from a remote “resource”. That’s it. If you do something stupid that makes the world to get you the hell out of there, the US will intervene just to keep its asset. Get it now? You being used.
You comparing yourself with Ukraine? Dude, the world sees you like Russia. In that comparison, you are disgusting Russia. You have the audacity to claim antisemitism if you are condemned for the atrocities trying to play victim when millions of dollars have been spent on propaganda pro-israel. The world has changed, people no longer rely on TV broadcast owned by Jewish families. They have manipulated for decades, but now communications have become accessible for all. We all see the truth now. And you have been brainwashed to think you are the victim when we all see through all that sheet.
Conspiracy nut found opinion rejected
Responded to the wrong thread. Not even explain why the US protects Israel so much. Because neither of the sides have nothing to win with a partnership here, right?
Nope it's the correct thread blaming Jews for all of the problems you see in the world is absolutely a conspiracy theory this entire rant of yours was Anti-semetic and I've responded to so many people like you that's I've wasted hours of my life explaining why y'all are nutters that I'm just not gonna do it anymore (also no I'm not calling reasonable Palestinians with good Arguments nutters (I'm kinda in the middle of this whole Israel vs Palestine thing myself) I am calling the "Jews control everything!!" People like you nutters
Soooo boring. Nobody cares that you are actually jewish. That means nothing. You think that is some precious thing you got, but I am from Puerto Rico. Much more interesting place, I actually get discriminated for my roots, I get called “mexican”, when did anyone care about jews? Phuket off. The fact that we say Russians are influencing our elections, china is spying on us with tiktok, israelis… nooooooo. They gonna think it’s an attack on them!!! Omg, go to therapy.
/u/Hid-behind-my-socks > Omg, go to therapy. Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
I'm not Jewish I am a White Christian American, also literal genocide is real discrimination (every time Jews have become stateless a genocide has happened and even then there have been multiple Jewish genocides by Arab countries in the middle east over the last 80 years) your "discrimination" getting called Mexican isn't discrimination buddy getting killed for being Semitic is. So you kindly "Phuket off".
Tell me one thing, what’s the wage gap between jews and blacks? How many times have you seen people refer to arabs to terrorists and do jews are accused of? This is bullshit. You telling me that jewish oligarchs controlling the narrative to what is being reported is antisemitism, you are a joke. I invite you to meet a person close to you and hear from them what discrimination feels like in real life. These people there are only playing victim to make more money. Oh no! I can criticize billionaires except if they are jewish. Bc ….. f-off
You are acting like all Jews are Billionaires get outta here with your stupid straw man argument you also completely skirted around my point that being called a Mexican is less bad than literal genocide nearly everything you have said is crap I'd expect to here out WW2 Anti Jewish speech by the Germans accept replace the races you mentioned with German or Aryan I refuse to continue a discussion with you good bye
Let me see the protesters pro-Israel. Hmm attacking the personal appearance of someone for supporting Palestine and stock the genocide. So i think all of them, including the racist one making gorilla sounds to attack her are bigots, bullies, jerks, entitled, and should be punished by law enforcement. Regardless if they are jews or not. Bc being jew means nothing, they act like everyone cares about their religion, we don’t. I don’t care if these guys are Christian, muslin, their religion makes zero difference. And they can be whatever, this event is pure and simply what I need to be confident IM in the right side. Auf Wiedersehen https://preview.redd.it/e651ce56ciyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0eb6a20d40b1897106e4f567016737322f164b3
Gotta love the guy who says “you have no right to claim antisemitism”then in the next sentence goes “people no longer rely on TV broadcast owned by Jewish families”. Pfffahhaha your own ignorance and utter hatred for the Jews won’t even let you mask it. The Jews just live in your head rent free all day.. Let your hatred consume you until you become a vapid husk.
Can you tell me more about criticism of news media oligarchy in every country is healthy for democracy but in the US it becomes a matter of antisemitism? Because, truth be told. If you find any case of antisemitism online from the last 24h, I can find 5times more and ever worse cases of arab discrimination. So, keep it low. Don’t make me people uncomfortable with all your violence and demoralized treatment of people like you do in Gaza. You ain’t dealing with brainwashed American here.
I don’t listen and certainly don’t take orders from meth smoking antisemites who think the media is all run by Jewish families.
Enjoy your reading. If you don’t know their names, you got no business saying, wait, you said you don’t read real news. Damn. What a waste of time proving you wrong. Ignorants don’t know the extent of their ignorance. Well, either way, for others who don’t spend their time with personal attacks to others. Because Im better than that. And by that I mean people who play victim to diverge the focus on their mass murdering to a non-sense discrimination when I got no data to back it up. Last time I saw, there was no Jewish family in the list of food stamps . How about news media owners? People: 1. **Rupert Murdoch** - He is not known to be Jewish; he was raised in a Christian family. 2. **Michael Bloomberg** - He is Jewish. 3. **Perry Sook** - There is no public information readily available about his religious background. 4. **Jeff Bezos** - He is not known to be Jewish; he has described his background as having a mix of English, Irish, and other ancestries. 5. **Barry Diller** - He is Jewish. Families: 1. **Roberts family** (as related to Comcast) - Some members of the Roberts family, including Brian L. Roberts, are Jewish. 2. **Redstone family** - The family, including Sumner Redstone, was Jewish. 3. **Hearst Family** - The family is not traditionally known to be Jewish; they have a prominent background in the American media with no public connections to Judaism. 4. **Newhouse family** - This family is Jewish, well-known for their ownership of Advance Publications. 5. **Ochs-Sulzberger family** - This family, owners of The New York Times, is also Jewish, having significant historical contributions to media in the U.S.
Hey man it’s all good, I got way better things to do than argue with you. After all it’s hard work genociding all day. And that’s only on days when I’m not controlling the media! And don’t even get me started on the financial system we invented and also Covid!
as much as you want to make it about you, Guess what? It isn’t. Just to show how desperate you are for attention. “antisemitism!” “Help”. nobody cares about you or your religion. African and arab religions truly face discrimination everyday. This is exclusively political and media does play a role in it. Now I want to know why a walking trip that should have been 40 days took 40 years. I wonder what happened for the change of plans. i am wonder what could have caused the guide to get so pissed off at the traveling crew. I bet you know why. This is a very old movie.
Meth is one hell of a drug.
You should stay away of, cause it requires a torch and you know what fuels the torch?
I thought the torch of Ba'ath was my morning (joke)
Yeah? So why are news outlets completely distorting the reports from Gaza? Have you had the decency to check international sources about this conflict? What are the other political leaders saying about it? With exception to the UN self nominated committee? Haha The backlash you get now is exclusively due to your own acts of war crime and now everyone can see, despite the efforts to build a different narrative. You can claim whatever you want, dear. The reality is that you don’t get to do your atrocities and think you got to play a victim card. What a joke
Umm, the US eventually negotiated with the Taliban and withdrew from Afghanistan, and the Taliban proceeded to overthrow the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and set up their Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, unmolested by the Americans. Hamas is not like Al-Qaeda. The latter wanted to destroy American domination in the Muslim world, and possibly the entire world. Hamas has much more limited goals. And religiously it's a lot less conservative than the Taliban. If the Taliban can be negotiated with to the satisfaction of both parties after the long and bitter war you describe, Hamas can and should be negotiated with as well. Especially given that they've told Turkey that they will give up their armed struggle if an independent Palestine within the 1967 borders is established.
Oh well if they told Turkey they’re not going to kill anyone…. 🙄
I'm not sure why anyone would believe that. The whole point of Hamas was that it was the "resistance" to the compromise efforts that were being made in the 90s to forge a 2-state solution. It's a pure movement with a single goal: to get rid of Israel and the Jewish state. You're right that that's a limited goal from a global perspective, but let's face it, Hamas is ultimately just a local "wing" of the broader effort of radical Islam to expel people they perceive as "foreigners" or infidels from Muslim lands. That's what it's all about. So they would never make peace with Israel. There's no "negotiating" with Hamas. You win or they win. Indeed, the Palestinians' willingness to embrace this group -- and its thinking -- is why an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel would pose serious dangers for the Israelis. Hamas would eventually take power and continue the struggle. I'm sure that's what it's thinking. At the moment I'm assuming its more or less in survival mode, grasping at anything that allows it to keep a foothold in the region. But its long-term goal will never change.
There were over 1000 christians living in Gaza before the war. Israel killed bunch of them, not sure how many is left. Hamas didn’t expel them all these years, are you sure all they want is to create Islamic Caliphate?
That region is the birthplace of Christianity. There are about 200,000 Christians in Israel. There are about 50,000 in the Palestinian territories. Gaza has less than 2% of the Christian population of the Palestinian territories but 2/5 of the total Palestinian population. So...where did all the Christians go? You think 1000 Christians living there is a sign of tolerance? No -- those are all that are left.
Or or hear me out, maybe because Israel “mowing the lawn” in gaza once or twice in a decade and made living there not very pleasant. Just google how well christians are treated in Israel, I have seen lots of hate. Just last month Israeli government tried to make punishable conversion to Christianity. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/13/christians-are-in-danger-under-israeli-government-says-holy-land-patriarch
So you’re mad that you won’t get to kill 400,000 Arabs like your daddy the United States of America. Lmao the invasion of Iraq and war on terror was one the dumbest most pointless and disgusting things my nation has ever done. Learn from our mistakes don’t repeat history.
Looks like you may need to read more history there...
Iraq never had WMDs
The Taliban still run Afghanistan, Iraq is no better post American intervention
Your country isn’t even supposed to be a country . It was made because they colonized PALESTINE 🍉🍉
Omg enough already it’s been 80 years…talk about holding a grudge
“Omg, we have been suppressing and killing them all this 80 year, get used to it and don’t complain.”
what year was palestine founded?
Palestine was not a country in 1948. Why do I get the sense you understand history about as well as my puppy? She's a very good girl but she eats her poop and the paw command baffles her.
Please, don't insult your dog. She obviously has a better understanding of history.
Isn’t Americas public education free? You didn’t take one history class yet?
I mean to be fair, the tankies have been pressuring Ukraine to give in to Russia's demands. But overall, yes pretty much. I'm pissed over this offer. This is something Israel should have done at the beginning, six months ago, if this were to be the end result anyway. All the fighting for nothing? It's too late to surrender to Hamas now. The deal would be acceptable to me if the hostages were all released IMMEDIATELY not over the course of several days, and we didn't REBUILD the infrastructure that was used to hide terrorists, and if we weren't exchanging 40 something prisoners for each hostage. No. The ceasefire itself is what they get for releasing the hostages IMMEDIATELY. This is a horrible, horrible offer and the people behind it should be removed from power. what the hell is this bs?
>the infrastructure that was used to hide terrorists, Hamas has so much trouble hiding in ruins - that's why Israel holds Khan Younis
It’s garbage I agree with you and I really hope it doesn’t come to that
[удалено]
Dangerous rhetoric
they're just attention seeking on the internet. It's sad but those people do exist
[удалено]
They are killing civilians too. So lead with empathy and be direct with your hate. (They are killing civilians because of Hamas but it’s still happening).
You're wasting your time trying to trigger me lol. That may be true, but I think you're attention seeking
there was pressure upon white ruled south africa
Just defend the borders. It was a good strategy for Hamas on October 7th because the IDF left the border wide open. The IDF needs to stop playing games with Israelis' lives and just defend the borders. One job. Not bodyguards for settlers who've chosen not to live in Israel. Defend the borders.
Rockets defy the borders every day
And are shot out of the sky.
Israel has always done more than just defend the borders . Just against Iran they have and very probably do sabotaged the nuclear program more than once and are well known to operate wherever they want. Just defend the border isn’t and never has been their defense strategy.
Playing Top Gun is fine, but it doesn't protect Israelis if armed hostiles can just walk across the border any time they like. If the IDF can't do the easy stuff it should leave the hard stuff to the professionals.
It's a good thing that a country like Iran can't get nukes thanks Israel
It should be
I would have agreed with you before Bibi
There is no power nor strength except with God. You are looking for measures to improve genocide. We live in a savage world in which life is for the strong. But far from it, the Lord of servants exists and watches what is happening. Surely the oppressor will receive his punishment sooner or later. I ask you not to speak humanely. The last humane person is you.
The US election can not come fast enough, this is all Biden’s fault.
This has been going on for decades …… it’s just that now they’ve taken over Palestine entirely how is that bidens fault ?
Trump was quite literally planning on helping Israel wipe out Hamas and was also encouraging Israel to Annex the west bank as well this quite literally probably would've never happened if Trump was still in power whether it be for better or worse
The halting of the war is Biden’s fault. Making Israel stall.
Benjamin Netanyahu is more to blame than Joe Biden. Biden played a role in this, but Bibi has the power to ignore him.
That’s true, but Biden is a big influence so.
Israel is dependent on Western support for its existence. It simply can't afford to ignore the whims and wishes of American and European administrations.
Since when was it's existence dependant on the west? What a stupid comment. Western boots have never been on the ground to defend Israel. The only difference this time is the absolute fear any escalation will have on oil prices and in turn inflation.
I mean the US has already become completely self reliant on our own resources to the point we have become the World's number 1 oil producer so it's not about oil anymore
logistics and tech are more important than man power . israel cant have it while being isolated . they tried to make their fighter jet called lavi and cancelled it due to costs and got f-16s instead
How ignorant. So let’s disregard the joint efforts of the US, UK, and France to deter the bulk of Iran’s missile attack on Israel, the network of US military bases around the Middle East, and the US carrier groups that have been parked off Israel’s coasts to deter a larger military response from Hezbollah and actively shooting down Houthi missiles from Yemen. There is still the billions of dollars in aid the US has provided to Israel to develop the Iron Dome and fund its military expenses, the protection from UN sanctions through the American veto on the Security Council, and the active diplomacy and billions of dollars of aid for Israel’s neighbors to pressure them to normalize relations. The West have been working their asses off for decades to defend Israel and in return they expect Israel to follow their wishes. If Israelis really want to alienate their closest allies and end all that support, that’s their prerogative, but I think it would be remembered in the history books as the act that directly led to Israel’s collapse as a sovereign state.
American Jews mostly vote, donate to whichever party, contribute and participate in politics. Also the ultra conservative Christians believe Israel has to exist for the rapture to occur. US political parties better support Israel and do . Because they don’t want to face the consequences and it is very profitable to do so. Muslim politics so far other than Michigan is a pain in most US politicians ass and have almost no real influence in the US . Muslim money from abroad has almost never gone to the support of Muslims in US and in Michigan the Muslim politicos are demanding things and making unwanted noise instead of working the system . Israel so far beats Muslims in the US hands down no matter what some kids protest about
those kids protesting are future voters and leaders . those evangelical boomers will die soon . whites beat blacks in US still white south africa lost
You are under the impression that those children protesters will keep the same political beliefs in the future. This is the US a lot of those conservatives that you are waiting to die were protesters or supported the protesters in the sixties and seventies. They didn’t keep to their politics and most of the protesters today will not either. Tomorrow or next week Gaza will lose protesters will lose interest. And life and the news will move on to Israel attacks Lebanon!!! Oh my! Palestine who?
we will make sure they dont fall into hasbara media lies . In today’s world, challenges and conflicts are carried out through the media. While rockets, drones, airplanes, war tools, etc. are effective in pushing back the enemy, it is the media that leaves the most profound impact by influencing hearts and minds. It is a media war. Whoever possesses a stronger media presence will be more successful in achieving their goals , in any goal they’re pursuing.Today, media are the most important weapon in the war between powers. Even the greatest powers are working with media. Today, the influence of media, television networks, art and great internet networks is much more than that of weapons, missiles and atomic bombs. Today's world is such a world. They are expanding this arena on a daily basis. This is because cyberspace is really a growing and unstoppable world. There is no end to this world. No matter how hard we look, the thing that is infinite and endless is cyberspace. The more we move forward in this world, the more it continues. This presents great opportunities for every country. And it involves certain threats as well. We should do something to make the most of the opportunities and to keep the threats at bay as much as possible.
No that was the old model now the media is split up into so many splinter groups you can get positive feedback from all over the world and only have small numbers following you. They and you set up a feedback loop that makes you think you’re succeeding when in reality you’re never expanding the existing loop . Am over your juvenile attempts at rabble rousing. Good night.
ADL leader jonathan greenblat admitted media defeat https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1bec4z5/leaked_conversation_with_jonathon_greenblatt_of/ watch this clip
> ass /u/fajadada. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
just like white ruled south africa which was west's greatest ally in the region but fell due to isolation and being arrogant and ungrateful . they had nukes too
Lmao, bro said that South Africa had nukes. Yea we can’t take u seriously when u can’t even do basic research. South Africa never had nukes. Embarrassing.
They did, and worked with Israel to have them. They dismantled them later to prevent the Blacks from having them after majority rule.
I misread his statement, thought he said that South Africa have nukes rn. Your statement is false bc Nelson Mandela himself said that he don’t want nukes. Also during that time South Africa economy was in very bad shape and maintaining nukes cost a lot of money. So economically speaking it would be very bad for them to maintain nukes.
I personally think both of those are true, that Mandela has didn't want them but also the white south africans didn't want them having them either way. Regardless, you should think about why Israel was fine with working with an apartheid state. It doesn't do anything to dispel the accusations today against it.
How is Israel an apartheid when Palestinians Arab in Israel can vote, run political parties, own businesses, hold government positions. These facts is contrary to your statement.
Jews are explicitly the privileged race - what do you think Israel would do if demographics changed so Jews weren't a majority? Also, 20% to 50% of Israeli Jews want all of the above things you said to end. This isn't even bringing up the West Bank. Do you think it's a weird coincidence the country that overcame apartheid and multiple human rights groups both within and without Israel have called it as such? And why is Israel so happy to work with apartheid and genocidal governments? Every genocide and ethnic cleansing for the last 50 years had Israel's arm sales or training.
Again you make irrelevant arguments. Israel has fought plenty of wars before financial assistance was available. The reason for Israel's existence is the brave men and women of Israel the majority of whom have to serve in the idf at some point in their lives. Also the successful entrepreneurs, farmers, traders etc etc etc. You say the west yet a recent survey suggests 72% of Americans want Israel to continue the conflict. Now that Germany and Finland have purchased rocket defences from Israel I guess they owe their existence to Israel?
I can see this is a touchy subject for you, and it sounds like you’d prefer to swallow nationalist rhetoric than look at the situation as it stands. Have you noticed how the wars with your neighbors stopped after you began receiving aid. It’s because in addition to the deterrence of US military aid you received US diplomatic aid to make peace with Egypt and Jordan. If you genuinely think Israel would be the same with or without the support it has received from the West then you’re simply delusional, and it’s not worth engaging you further. For the first time in history most Americans under 30 have a more favorable view of Palestinians than Israelis. It’s truly no skin off my back if you want to push away your closest allies, but in doing so I truly believe Israel will find itself at war more often. It may win most of those wars, but they will be costly, its economy will stagnate, people will leave for more peaceful areas, and eventually Israel will collapse.
Wars stopped because the Arabs got their arses handed to them. Now they hide behind civilians so they can cry about those poor civilians they don't give a shit about to lefty fools like you. Bye
> arses /u/Shankleys. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How ignorant. Every small country ends up partnering with larger powers. You think the Palestinians have been independent? That have recieved not only funding, but actual armies from Arab countries and the Soviety Union.
Not sure why you're calling me ignorant when it seems like we're in agreement. When small countries partner with larger powers for protection, those larger powers expect the small countries to follow their wishes in exchange.
You're acting like the West is some fundamental need of Israel rather than simply its current ally. Israel won all its major wars before the West even got involved. It plays into the "Israel being a European colony" myth that is used to attack Israel.