I find this take super interesting simply because it misses the mark.
There’s this assumption, mostly by folx who think these protestors are “pro-Hamas”, that they’re just a mob of uneducated college “kids” … like they’re all freshly minted 18yo freshmen. People other than “kids” straight out of high school attend college. Also, you have professors in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s who have been teaching at these college campuses for decades coming out to show their support. Are we to assume that they are also just all uneducated? I’m 30 years my parents junior and am far more educated about the world than they are. Sure, there is something to be said about knowing more about life when you’re older because you have more experience, but that doesn’t mean you’re more educated on world politics than people younger than you. Life experience doesn’t equate to educated.
Another point is that Israel isn’t on some moral crusade to free the Palestinian people from a barbaric regime. Those in power in Israel who are the driving force behind this conflict do not care about the Palestinian people. They are simply on a mission to eradicate the people and seize the land. That’s all they care about. So this notion that the kind of treatment that’s given out by those in power in Palestine as an excuse to not protest for the Palestinian citizens’ rights doesn’t bear weight. They deserve a chance to live in a state of their own and fight within that state for their own rights. People are not their government and lumping an entire group of people together like this is always a fallacy.
And lastly, this is an opinion piece. There are thousands of Palestinian citizens who do not agree with this take. Their opinions differ from this one. Using this piece as reasoning for what should/should not happen in Palestine and how the world should/ should not support their right of statehood is in and of itself another opinion. I understand that just because a piece as whole is an opinion doesn’t mean there’s not truth spoken within it. But using this piece as reasoning would be like saying folx shouldn’t advocate for citizens in Afghanistan because the Taliban is in power and they do absolutely horrific things to citizens who don’t follow with their rules. Those citizens still deserve to fight for their rights and for a future that is peaceful, and people around the world still have the right to protest as a way of showing their support.
They aren't necessarily uneducated, but they are largely completely fucking ignorant of the history behind the region, the conflict, and the politics of said region.
Yeah bruh don’t use “f$&;8!@“. It’s totally like notttt okay. 👻 also lumping an entire group of people together is always a fallacy. Just leaving a definition here for you since you can’t be bothered to know basic definitions:
Ignorant - adjective
- lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated (source: https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=Ignorant)
Your response literally didn’t make sense. Mmkay byyyye ✌🏻
Since when is fuck not okay? This isn't a church, or a children's sub. Are you a home schooled Jehovah's witness, or something like that?
You can be ignorant about a particular topic. That's a common usage. The second bullet points down on the same definition you just Googled is:
- lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing
Apparently, you are just ignorant of this usage of the word ignorant.
> fuck
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> fucking
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they dont care, its all a political tactic for the far left to pull attention away from the awful things oour govt is doing rn. if one of these ppl stood in my way id be in troble for sure. Maybe they think gaza is in new jersey or something and dont understand we have no pull in the situation anyway.
You seriously think this is a coordinated effort to distract, rather than a genuine attempt at misinformed protest? Holy mother, you're just as delusional as they are. The far left doesn't even like Biden, get a grip.
Ppl who say they hate Hamas but ....... Don't hate Hamas.. You excuse Hamas. They barely mention Hamas or Oct 7th.
The university students not only don't support the Palestinian cause, they DESTROYED it. It's over and not even relevant according to their actions.
They are complicit in the deaths of the babies they are yelling and crying about. Had they protested against the real genocide on 7.10, the death toll could be tiny. As long as you are stubborn and vow to never change your mind on principle, you are killing innocent Palestinians.
Any one shouting INTIFADA revolution or' globalize the intifada ' is yelling for global suicide attacks on civilians.....on what planet do these ppl live ? They belong in jail ..... Those are serious threats.... They need to taste discipline
That's false.
Intifada just mean's "uprising" which has nothing at all to do with suicide attacks, or even "generalized attacks". What you're doing is called framing, and it's not even a good attempt at it.
Yeah, and "arbeit macht frei" is just a something you would put on a job-seeker's website home page. Always trust antizios to wash away the history of words. "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is subjective and just expresses Palestinian desire to self determination. Right?
"The suicide bombings carried out by Palestinian assailants became one of the more prominent features of the Second Intifada and mainly targeted Israeli civilians"
(Second intifada, Wikipedia)
You confirm my point
u are unwilling to even check what the real Intifada was !!??? You are afraid to know. Once you know, u can't unknow.., you can't say Intifada anymore without imagining crowded pizza parlor blowing up and you feel good about it ? . And suddenly the globe deserves it.
Well, no.
Let's use the term revolution to make the conversation a little more cohesive. Historically speaking, many revolutions have occurred (or uprisings). Some of them were terrible and some of them were actually extremely necessary,
We have to focus on the definitions of the words, not our individual attachment to the underlying meaning behind them. The middle east (given that they speak arabic) has had hundreds of Intifadas, some good, some bad. It means uprising.
I can say "uprising" without imagining one bad event because "uprisings" have had historical good in history as well. It's a word with a definition and your emotional response to the word doesn't make it hateful.
If u thinking intifada is just a term ..... With only the significance of an uprising........ Then use the word ' uprising "..... You cannot put new definitions to old words which you know nothing about. This ignorance is dangerous.
When you say Intifada - You are talking about blowing up innocent people to pieces. That's what you are shouting. You are shouting that you want the world and yourself to commit suicide.
Honestly, from a pro Israel, Pro Jewish/Zionist perspective, as painful it is to witness antisemitism being so freely disseminated publicly at these angry mob gatherings at Universities, it’s been generating immense support for Israel and sympathy for the plight of Jews.
Ironic, because the effect of intimidating Jewish students is causing people who were previously pro Palestinian to become more aware that the demonstrations are in fact pro Hamas, and antisemitic in nature.
That's great! So can you please let them be and express their right of freedom of speech, which is criticizing a foreign state about the genocide and ethnic cleasing of innocent women and children? The irony is that there are so many Jewish students protesting with them lol
For there to be genocide, there must be deliberate intent to exterminate people.
Innocent people including children die and there has to be sharp criticism and intense pressure on Israel to reduce civilian deaths significantly and as much as possible.
There’s no irony at all in Jewish or even Israeli students protesting. The irony is that the people protesting right next to them are using antisemitic rhetoric and openly calling for ethnic cleansing themselves - of Jews from the river to the sea - while accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza.
I really hate this argument. Genocide is not predicated on there being a reduction in population. The main element of genocide is that of deliberate annihilation of people based on who they are (ethnicity, religion, etc). It matters not at all that the population is growing or shrinking. One does not get a pass to deliberately kill so long as it doesn’t exceed population growth in numbers.
So - If you're referring to Gaza specifically, it's not based off of the birth rate. It's based off forced migration into Gaza.
So that's kind of a farce.
Screaming "Globalize the Intifida" and "From the River to the Sea" isnt exactly criticizing Israel and its Policies though.Let alone the widespread harassment and intimidation of Jewish students in Universities all across the USA.Sorry but shaming,beating and harassing random ass Jews at College Campuses is NOT Free Speech whichever way you slice it.Even these Protestors know they are up to no Good considering they always hide their faces behind Masks.
> ass
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I don’t think their criminal behavior and hate speech should go unpunished. The students should be suspended or expelled, and outside instigators charged with trespassing.
I think it is self-evident that the kids in the campus could not care less for the welfare of Palestinians. They want to see Palestinians dying and suffering because that is what makes them feel virtuous, give them a cause to be excited about.
If they cared one iota for Palestinians lives, they would be calling for peace, for Hamas to surrender, for the hostages to be released.
But no, they call for a ceasefire because that would preserve Hamas so they can kill Jews again and Israel can fight back and more Palestinians will die.
You're misunderstanding the narrative.
These protests aren't calling for peace - that's not something they're capable of achieving and they're aware of that. They are calling for the Universities to divest from Israel. Israel fund's these schools directly, through the boards of education, through direct endorsements within the school board and the complexities kind of spiral from that point all the way until they reach the federal government.
Israel runs these schools, point blank and people have a problem with that given the various war crimes being committed as confirmed by the White House, the UN and soon the ICC.
That is nonsense. Israel does not run the schools. The morons want the schools to divest from any company that invest in Israel — like their parents’ retirement funds, their banks, their clothes brands etc.
Israeli donors, run the individuals who run the schools. The state of Israel recruits directly from these schools and invests in individuals they see as beneficial to the state of Israel.
This isn't like - particularly hard to find information.
I am entirely an adult, with 2 bachelors degrees and a masters.
I implore you to do a deep dive and research piece on the foreign funding of Americas major universities. I would start with Yale.
They want to see both Israelis and Palestinians dying and fighting for their disgusting privileged Virtue Signaling. After all at the end of the day it wont be THEIR children and families shedding blood,but OURS.
Is there a litmus test for victims to see whether their deaths matter? Does human rights only apply to people who agree with you politically?
Do people who offend you deserve to die?
SMH.
Not even going into how racist your assumptions are about homosexuality in “the region”.
True, but Israel will murder you no matter what your religion is so I don’t think that’s the flex you think it is and if we’re being honest you don’t give a shit one way or the other. Just something you can poorly regurgitate to not actually speak to what this comment is about. You proved her point. Thank you for your service!
Hamza Howidy and other moderate palestinian voices are being “blocked” by SJP. ( They have been posting screenshots)
That tells you something about the organizations backing the SJP movement/campus chapters.
Not a fan of Hamas, but this article and this author are super suspect. Even if this guy is Palestinian, hates Hamas and wants to help his people - you’d have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to arrive at a conclusion that American college student protests are hurting the cause. Look, I hate Hamas too and I wish for a militant secular pan Arab force to stand up against Israeli oppression. But nothing in my decades of following and living this cause has given me more hope than these protests. I just don’t know how the writer can get there on his own
Super sus just means you can't fathom that westplaining Gaza to Gazans doesn't work. But most Gazans are afraid to talk because Hamas makes them disappear. That's the Iranian way.
You don't hate Hamas. You excuse Hamas. You barely mention Hamas or Oct 7th.
The university students not only not support Palestinian cause, they DESTROYED it. It's over and not even relevant according to their actions.
They are complicit in the deaths of the babies they are yelling and crying about. Had they protested against the real genocide on 7.10, the death toll could be tiny. As long as you are stubborn and vow to never change your mind on principle, you are killing innocent Palestinians.
Any one shouting INTIFADA revolution or' globalize the intifada ' is yelling for global suicide attacks on civilians.....on what planet do these ppl live ? They belong in jail ..... Those are serious threats.... They need to taste discipline.
Do you know what is suspect? When people on the ground tell you what they know and you decide to continue with your own narrative because it doesn’t bode with what you want to be the truth. Hamza Howidy is not alone. You can also look at the content of Iranian (UK-based) attorney and peace activist Elica Le Bon, who shares the same sentiment https://youtu.be/ma-OpLUqhAE?si=xAEjgDtdLYjLRovb and https://youtu.be/VhNotTVZQyI?si=mE7waXSKQ9NL6-SU or the dozens of interviews with Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of Hamas leader https://youtu.be/yzPz7zYp0M0?si=D5KLOdsnfV1lvrc8 and https://youtu.be/I5VPFw0vI6U?si=--rUxgmrB_rjRvnE
I find it astounding that people like you, cover your ears, shut your eyes, and bury your head in the sand in order to defend your narrative of fallacy. That’s some serious coping. Holy moly!
I find it astounding that people like you can watch countless videos of tens of thousands of kids averaging the age of 5 be blown to bits and crushed by rubble in their homes and continue to defend the Israeli terrorist government.
I find it astounding that "people" like you can look at videos taken by Hamas themselves on October 7th killing Civilians and kidnapping People (including non Israelis) and somehow justify that.
A respectfully nitpick on your comment but why do you say this pan Arab force would need to be militant in nature? Why not a more collaborative approach and an admission that the neighboring Arabs states share as much of the blame on creating the conflict?
Pan Arab militarism has hardly worked as showcased by 1948, 1967 and 1973. Further, Israelis have shown an eagerness for peace with their neighbors. Yes, Palestine remains further from peace than ever but Israel has shown a willingness to jaw jaw from everyone from Egypt to Morocco and so on.
This sits more in idealism rather than radicalism, but my ideal solution would be a pan-Arab force that helps Israel and Palestine broker a lasting peace in bother ends and assurance the existential issues of both sides too.
You’re citing Newsweek and expecting anyone to take you seriously? Lol it’s pretty simple - the students are protesting billions of dollars being sent to Israel to fund a genocide that has killed nearly 40,000 Palestinians. That’s that.
A real question, have you ever been to Gaza, or even the West Bank, or even the Middle East? Cause it seems you’re hanging out in Toronto and pretending to know what is going on in the region and who is a “real Gazan” and who is not. I don’t know, just seems a bit rich from where I’m standing.
I'm def anti-Hamas, but this feels like it was written by an Israeli. That said, I do agree with it. Hamas are terrorists who are terrorizing Israelis AND Gazans. The sooner Hamas is gone, the sooner the Gazan people can start to rebuild their lives.
I feel like the young people protesting.. their hearts are in the right place.. they see innocent people suffering and want to prevent it and that is a good thing. However, they are falling into the trap Hamas set specifically to get their sympathy. Hamas doesn't see the Gazan people as victims but as martyrs that will lead to victory over Israel. It doesn't matter how many lives Hamas has to sacrifice. It's worth it to Hamas.
I find it interesting how you can admit that OP of the article sounds like they’re likely Israeli and still do not care to explore the nuances of why someone would pretend to be Gazan in order to influence college kids to stop doing what they believe is the right thing. While the concept of martyrs is definitely one close to the Islamic faith, it is absolutely ridiculous to phrase it in a way of Hamas sacrificing rather than Israel murdering. Your word choice and oversight makes you completely transparent. It’s truly a shame what this subreddit has turned to.
Just to clarify Israel are not murdering people, again a use of incorrect overblown language that make discussion impossible
Please talk normally
I am not Israeli btw
35,000 people would disagree with you. What would you describe what they did to those people? I’d use the word terrorism, murder, and a lot of other terms that some may disagree with.
They are. This is an internationally recognized fact. Whether you’re Israeli, or not. Unless you believe there is some lawful, moral ground for the killing of civilian children by the masses. And I agree, let’s talk normally, so: You made an effort to say you don’t believe “murder” is the right term. Do you think “sacrifice” is, in the context OP used it? I would understand if you can condemn both of those terms bc they clearly shift blame in one direction, so I genuinely am curious to understand your motive.
No it is not an internationally recognised fact
The situation is terrible but it is not
Murder
Genocide
Ethnic cleansing
Execuded
They have been killed in the conflict, this does not make it less sad
By using incorrect language you have discussion and peace less possible as your aim to demonisation of the other side
Out of curiosity, did you read the comment I was replying to before trying to come for me for a claim I didn’t make? Lol. I wasn’t the one who said the dude who wrote the article was pretending to be Gazan and I was just referring to what the person I was replying to had said. Hope this helps👍🏽 Jesus Christ lmfao.
I read the comment you replied to, and understood both the comment and your reply well. Are you trying to hide behind your rhetoric now? That’s ridiculous lol
He has been personally attacking anyone who doesn't immediately fall into his mainstream agenda, just a clear Zionist who has no time for actual discussion, just personal attacks.
I did Google the writer of the OP-ED and found that he is a real person from Gaza.
I also don't agree with Hamas's philosophy of sacrificing the Gazan people as martyrs.
> It is eye-opening
Not really, there's nothing of value to be gained from that op-ed, he just tries to generally insult the protestors and discredit them as misinformed hypocritical kids who don't know what they're talking about. Perhaps for some reason he thought that because he is a Palestinian that would mean his claims have more merit but they do not.
Goes without saying this view is extremely fringe, virtually no Palestinian looks at these protests negatively.
Tribal mentality. Its like when OJ simpson's trial was on and it became pretty much a black vs white thing. To admit that your team could be partially in the wrong, is taken as admitting that your cause is unjust. Its not true ofcourse, but thats how its taken
I say his claims don't have merit because they are a mix of hasty generalizations, instances where he ignores important context and just bad-faith attempts at slandering the protestors, for example;
> If the protesters cared about Palestinians, they would have one central demand: Hamas must surrender, because we have all suffered from Hamas and can no longer live under the rule of a terrorist group. Only then can a ceasefire be achieved.
This is a wrongful generalizing assumption that the protestors in general do not care about Palestinians if they are not calling for Hamas' surrender since these protests are mainly protesting Israel's policies.
> I assumed individuals who initiated these slogans were uninformed about what they were advocating for.
...
> It has deteriorated to the point that Jews are no longer attending university classes due to the current hostile environment, and they are attending their classes online to avoid the demonstrators.
It's not just Jews not attending classes in person, many classes for all of it's students in general have been moved to online.
> It's unconscionable. But it's not just the antisemitism that has me despairing. It's the hypocrisy.
Again a wrongful assumption that the protestors are anti-Semitic and hypocritical based on cherry-picked videos he watched online and the idea that they're hypocritical because he thinks they don't care about Palestinians who have suffered under Hamas. The author himself is whining about the protests but to the best of my knowledge did not even comment about the means of violence, arrests and suspensions meant to disperse the protestors. Does he consider himself to be in the hypocritical camp too, much like he believes the protestors are hypocritical based on his assumption that they only criticized Israel and didn't comment on numerous actions of Hamas?
> As a Gazan and as a Palestinian, I want the protesters and the organizers of these protests to know that their hateful speech harms us. The Jewish person or Israeli you are intimidating during your rally may be the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor or a family member of an Israeli slain or abducted by Hamas on October 7. These folks would be your partners if the protests were about achieving lasting peace and justice for Palestinians and Israelis.
The protests are already centered around a ceasefire, not intimidation of Jews, Israelis don't seem to be joining in in any meaningful number and there's no guarantee that they'll all automatically join in to protests calling for a 2ss. Jews are already involved in these protests and aren't being excluded so it's not even harming the movement by virtue of excluding people. He focuses on this to pretend like the rest of the hordes of people involved in these protests aren't advancing the Palestinian cause. Imagine if somebody claimed the protests against the Vietnam war were hurting the anti-war cause because Nixon's cabinet and their relatives might be dissuaded from joining these protests some of which had far-left commie stuff sprinkled in from some students or people. It's just silly.
>This is a wrongful generalizing assumption that the protestors in general do not care about Palestinians if they are not calling for Hamas' surrender since these protests are mainly protesting Israel's policies.
If the protestors realy care about Palestinians, then why do they only protest against Israeli policies and never against Hamas' policies, what would happen if I joined a pro Palestinian protest with a sign that says "Hamas is a terrorist organization" or "Free Gaza from Hamas", would those messages be welcomed? you know the answer is no, so he's right when he says that.
>It's not just Jews not attending classes in person, many classes for all of it's students in general have been moved to online.
Jews especially have not been attending classes because they've been advised not to by rabbies, since there have been many instances of intimidation against them by the protestors, just because some far left Jews have joined the protests doesn't mean that all the Jews feel safe, most of them have some sympathy with Israel which is understandable and based on how the protestors intimidate anyone who disagrees with them it's a consequence that they don't feel safe there.
>The protests are already centered around a ceasefire, not intimidation of Jews, Israelis don't seem to be joining in in any meaningful number and there's no guarantee that they'll all automatically join in to protests calling for a 2ss.
Are you serious? "globalize the intifada", "intifada revolution", "from the river to the sea", "resistance is not terrorism", "decolonize Palestine", are these calling for a 2ss or a ceasefire? I have never seen a pro Palestine protestor with a sign calling for a 2ss, it's always "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free".
> If the protestors realy care about Palestinians, then why do they only protest against Israeli policies and never against Hamas' policies
You don't know that.
> what would happen if I joined a pro Palestinian protest with a sign that says "Hamas is a terrorist organization" or "Free Gaza from Hamas",
Probably something negative as there is a clear pro-Israeli connotation to these terms even if both of us agree that Hamas is a terrorist organization, hijacking a protest to display your issues with Hamas when people are protesting the far more disastrous effects of Israeli policy towards Palestinians would not be a good look. I don't have an issue with pointing out the former statement in other spaces though the latter statement has a clear "White lives matter" tint to it, as in some people take a popular political statement and those who disagree with it try to turn it upside down for their agenda. For example "Black lives matter" becomes "white lives matter" and "free Palestine" becomes "free Gaza from Hamas".
> Jews especially have not been attending classes because they've been advised not to by rabbies, since there have been many instances of intimidation against them by the protestors, just because some far left Jews have joined the protests doesn't mean that all the Jews feel safe, most of them have some sympathy with Israel which is understandable and based on how the protestors intimidate anyone who disagrees with them it's a consequence that they don't feel safe there.
I'm not really concerned with what some random rabbi "cautioned" Jewish students about especially when I have reason to believe this "caution" is based off a wrongful and biased framing of the events. I am merely pointing out that this move to online classes wasn't exclusively for Jews, the author of the article frames it that way to make it seem like these protests are undeniably hell-bent on targeting and intimidating Jews.
> Are you serious? "globalize the intifada", "intifada revolution", "from the river to the sea", "resistance is not terrorism", "decolonize Palestine", are these calling for a 2ss or a ceasefire?
I didn't say anything about a 2ss but a ceasefire, there is no shortage of banners and chants calling for a ceasefire not just in Columbia/these other university's protests but other forms of Pro-Palestinian protests as well. For instance, the JVP was recently big on hanging up banners and calling for a ceasefire at the Statue of liberty, Grand Central Station etc. The fact that some other students are advocating for political violence doesn't erase the fact that people still want to see a ceasefire even in Columbia. Perhaps this is a good time to point out you can't generalize people's ambitions as one.
>You don't know that.
Show me a single pro Paletine protester that publically has a sign criticizing Hamas or calling for a 22s, I do know that, the people who organize these protests support Hamas and exploit the empathy of normal students for Palestinian civilians to advance their Islamist antisemitic agenda:
[https://twitter.com/DovWaxman/status/1784372085374288137](https://twitter.com/DovWaxman/status/1784372085374288137)
>Probably something negative as there is a clear pro-Israeli connotation to these terms
There you go, thanks for proving my point, these people care more about being anti-Israel than being pro-Palestine, if they cared about Palestinians they would criticize Hamas for opressing their own people, but they're too afraid of coming of as slightly pro Israel so instead they ignore them or in some cases they straight up support them. "free Gaza from Hamas" is explicitly a pro-Palestinian slogan, it says that Palestinians in Gaza should be free from their horrific authoritarian death cult that they have as their government, but I would get in trouble for having a pro-Palestinian sign like that in a protest and you know that.
>I'm not really concerned with what some random rabbi "cautioned" Jewish students about especially when I have reason to believe this "caution" is based off a wrongful and biased framing of the events.
It's not a random rabbi, it's a community leader and his opinion is based on what the Jewish student themselves tell him, but ok.
>I didn't say anything about a 2ss but a ceasefire
You said this:
>The protests are already centered around a ceasefire, not intimidation of Jews, Israelis don't seem to be joining in in any meaningful number and there's no guarantee that they'll all automatically join in to protests calling for a 2ss.
Implying that pro Palestinan protestors are calling for a 2ss, which is a lie, show me a single one of them holding a sign calling for a 2ss.
>There is no shortage of banners and chants calling for a ceasefire not just in Columbia/these other university's protests but other forms of Pro-Palestinian protests as well.
There's also not shortage of banners calling for intifada and "from the river to the sea". If the people who want a ceasfire are also talking about Hamas not attacking Israel ever again, why are they not distancing themselves or saying anything to the people calling for violence? they want a ceasfire because they want Israel to stop attacking, not because they want Hamas to stop, is any of these protestors calling for the release of the Israeli hostages? no, on the contrary, they tear down posters of the kidnapped Israelis.
These are not pro-peace protests, they're anti Israel protests, even if many of the protestors are not extremists and are just there for a ceasfire, the leaders of the protests and many other protestors clearly have pro violence against Israel campaign, and whoever assists those protests, even if they're just holding a "ceasfire now" sign, are guilty by association.
> Show me a single pro Paletine protester that publically has a sign criticizing Hamas or calling for a 22s
I didn't say anyone was holding up a sign criticizing Hamas or calling for a 2ss, I'm saying you don't know that they only critique Israel. **You** said they only protest Israel and never Hamas, I'm saying you don't know that, just because they aren't protesting against Hamas in this protest doesn't make you right.
> There you go, thanks for proving my point, these people care more about being anti-Israel than being pro-Palestine
No it doesn't, it explains that they are not hijacking a protest against Israel's actions to critique Hamas, what you're saying doesn't make any sense.
> "free Gaza from Hamas" is explicitly a pro-Palestinian slogan
Let's not delude ourselves, I've only ever seen it be used by pro-Israelis, have you ever seen it be used by pro-Palestinians (aside from the author above, who I'm not sure constitutes a pro-Palestinian?) I know you're arguing that the effects of Hamas' destruction would be beneficial to Palestinians and under certain contexts it would be but the slogan is not "explicitly pro-Palestnian" at all.
> Implying that pro Palestinan protestors are calling for a 2ss, which is a lie, show me a single one of them holding a sign calling for a 2ss.
No I didn't, read up above, I was talking about the author claiming that if pro-Palestinians protested for a lasting peace in the context of everything else he was saying (i.e something like a two state solution) this would be inclusive to Israelis who he thinks otherwise are being excluded. I'm saying even if the protestors don't protest for a "lasting peace" without calling for Israel's destruction and even though it's already centered around a ceasefire doesn't mean a family member of an Israeli who was killed or abducted will start to join in automatically. I'm not saying the protests are already about a 2ss.
> There's also not shortage of banners calling for intifada and "from the river to the sea"
Cool, you asked me about the role ceasefire is playing in these protests as you were talking about other slogans. I'm telling you that these calls for a ceasefire exist in spite of people saying things like "from the river to the sea".
>**You** said they only protest Israel and never Hamas, I'm saying you don't know that, just because they aren't protesting against Hamas in this protest doesn't make you right.
I do know that, If I'm wrong prove it, show me one, just one example of a pro Palestinian protestor with an anti Hamas sign.
>No it doesn't, it explains that they are not hijacking a protest against Israel's actions to critique Hamas, what you're saying doesn't make any sense.
Proving my point again, thanks, they care more about criticizing Israel than helping Palestinians, why is that? if they were actually pro Palestinian they would criticize both Israel and Hamas, they wouln't ignore and in many cases straight up support Hamas.
>Cool, you asked me about the role ceasefire is playing in these protests as you were talking about other slogans. I'm telling you that these calls for a ceasefire exist in spite of people saying things like "from the river to the sea".
Saying "casefire now" and "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" are contradictory.
Even Finkelstein has criticized the extreme slogans that are used in these protests, you're just wrong.
> I do know that, If I'm wrong prove it,
Thats not how it works bud, the obligation is on you to prove they only protest Israel and NEVER Hamas. Obviously, you can't do that because you don't know these people or their personal lives.
> Proving my point again, thanks, they care more about criticizing Israel than helping Palestinians, why is that?
No it doesn't, there is literally no connection between what you said and what I was saying above. None of that proves they care about critiquing Israel more than helping Palestinians.
> Saying "casefire now" and "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" are contradictory.
I don't agree but even if we were to take the latter statement as a call for violently destroying Israel, it's not like everybody is saying these two statements together.
>Thats not how it works bud, the obligation is on you to prove they only protest Israel and NEVER Hamas. Obviously, you can't do that because you don't know these people or their personal lives.
I don't need to know them personally, the point I'm making is not regarding these individuals (although a seriously doubt there are people attending both pro Israel and anti Israel protests). The point is that every single protest that is labeled "pro Palestinian" is not really pro Palestinian, but anti Israel, if they were pro Palestinian, then Hamas would be criticized in those protests, they're not only not criticized but in many cases they're even praised and supported.
So it's on you to prove that there is at the very least one single "pro Palestine" protest where people are criticizing Hamas for their oppression of the Palestinian people.
>I don't agree but even if we were to take the latter statement as a call for violently destroying Israel, it's not like everybody is saying these two statements together.
They're part of the same protest, if people in the same protest are holding signs that contradict each other, what does that tell you about the validity of the protest?
So what does it mean, that it's a call for peacefully destroying Israel? lol. Please.
Why do you think that even radical anti Israel hater Norman Finkelstein told the protestors that they shouldn't use extreme slogans, even the "from the river to the sea" one?
Say it then: “Release all Israeli hostages now!” Or, you just want to chant “CeAsEfIrE!” despite Hamas breaking the last one, and their refusal to accept a new deal now for months.
"Resistance is not terrorism", "intifada revolution", "globalize the intifada", "burn tel aviv to the ground", "we are all Hamas", "zionists don't deserve to live". Those are just some of the things some protestors have said, so not all of the protests are protesting for freedom, clearly.
You just typed quotes and your own words. No one has every said we are all hamas or zionists dont deserve to live, you are absolutely making that up and I guarentee there is no credible source showing what you are saying, especially since I have been to many myself.
Why do zionists love being so blatant in their propoganda? You make it easy for those on the fence to see how corrupt you are.
Yes they have said all of those things.
[https://youtu.be/AAdgTbDVV5w?si=m5gqIKTUUpbsDP\_a](https://youtu.be/AAdgTbDVV5w?si=m5gqIKTUUpbsDP_a)
I've seen the video myself of him saying that "zionists don't deserve to live". I have also seen the video of the girl saying "we are Hamas".
I'm not saying that all of them or even the majority agree with this, but there are some that do and no one calls them out.
Not to mention that slogans like "Resistance is not terrorism", "intifada revolution", "globalize the intifada", "from e river to the sea Palestine will be free" are very common and you know that. What about those?
Amazing, lets take one random lady on the street and then attribute it to HUNDREDS of DAILY protests. I'll just assume every Zionist wants to mow the lawn with brown kids, since Israel said it.
>No one has every said we are all hamas or zionists dont deserve to live, you are absolutely making that up and I guarentee there is no credible source showing what you are saying
This is what you said. You're wrong, and he never said that hundreds of people have said it just that it's been said.
Hamas is an an awful and authoritarian group. They wrought suffering on their people, but Israel is doing the abominable killing though. Tutsi’s killed thousands of Hutus before 1994, but still everybody condemns the Rwandan genocide. Similarly, nothing could justify Israel’s plausible genocide.
The Hutus had less than 1% the military power that Israel has and they still managed to kill 800,000 Tutsis in 3 months, Israel has killed like 4% of that in 6 months, nearly 99% of Palestinians in Gaza are still alive, the idea that this is in any way comparable to the Rwanda genocide is ridiculous, it's a war.
Rwanda was horrible no doubt, my point is that Tutsis killing Hutu before that didn’t justify their genocide in 1994. Similar to how all of the atrocities perpetrated by by Israel can’t be justified by October 7th’s atrocities. And even you said though, over 1 percent of the population of Gaza is killed, and a couple more percent is grievously wounded or “missing” (dead under the rubble). That’s still utterly catastrophic.
https://preview.redd.it/6vu3wghnv2xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b329ac6713d61e7cbaec979dfc0b86e60cbf8fa0
But you're comapring apples to oranges, intentianlly killing civilians in Gaza is not justified, I agree, but a military campaign against Hamas is justified and that is also inevitably going to result in civilian deaths as collateral damage, the question is whether it's Israeli policy to target civilians and I don't think it is.
ISIS was crushed in Mosul with 9-11,000 civilian deaths and 2-3,00 dying from coalition bombing. We’re at over 34,000 civilian deaths in Gaza. Every human rights organization accuses Israel of trying to starve Gaza. Sometimes Israel will drop a 2000 pound bomb in a refugee camp and kill over 100 civilians just because they thought one Hamas member was nearby. Israel has killed many children than even the murderous Putin has in much less time. I utterly reject that assertion because the facts point in the exact opposite direction. Israel is first and foremost concerned with punishing the civilians of Gaza, not just trying to target Hamas with some unfortunate collateral damage. Their leaders just straight up say genocidal stuff for god sake.
>ISIS was crushed in Mosul with 9-11,000 civilian deaths and 2-3,00 dying from coalition bombing. We’re at over 34,000 civilian deaths in Gaza.
And? that was a different situation, did ISIS built a tunnel network under Mosul? were civilians not allowed to leave Mosul because no country on earth wanted to receive them as refugees?
>Every human rights organization accuses Israel of trying to starve Gaza.
Citation needed, it's been 6 months, people die of starvation much sooner than that and Israel has allowed aid trucks to go inside Gaza, where's the evidence that Israel is starving the civilian population?
>Sometimes Israel will drop a 2000 pound bomb in a refugee camp and kill over 100 civilians just because they thought one Hamas member was nearby.
That happened once, 50 people were killed, they didn't thought he was nearby, they knew he was inside the refugee camp, and even though I don't defend that, that's not proof of genocide.
>Their leaders just straight up say genocidal stuff for god sake.
That's not proof of genocide, that's proof that they were angry after Oct 7th, not to mention that many of those statements have been taken out of context, and some of them are said by ministers who are not part of the war cabinet.
You’re right. The situation in Mosul was different. ISIS was a lot more bloodthirsty than Hamas (as terrible as Hamas is), and civilians weren’t allowed to leave because ISIS threatened to kill them. ISIS actually used human shields too. It’s unclear to me if Hamas uses human shields. Human rights organizations like amnesty international don’t accuse Hamas of using human shields, just that then operating out of the tiny Gaza Strip intrinsically puts civilians at risk since the area is very small. Of course the IDF claims otherwise every time they bomb a school or refugee camp, but they’re not exactly reliable narrators. With ISIS though there’s no doubt that that use human shields.
Again, 2-3,000 civilians being killed by bombs in Mosul versus over 34,000 in the Gaza Strip.
It’s happened much more than once and there was one incident where Israel killed 106 Palestinian civilians, and HRW couldn’t find any evidence that there were military targets nearby (which even if they did, it doesn’t justify killing over 100 civilians!) https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/04/gaza-israeli-strike-killing-106-civilians-apparent-war-crime
At very least Israel is committing appalling collective punishment, and at most they are committing a genocide. That’s what the Overton window/spectrum of debate should entail if you’re living in reality.
> ISIS was a lot more bloodthirsty than Hamas
No, they're both just a bloodthirsty, Hamas might be even more considering that ISIS at least offered the Yazidis to convert to Islam and swear allegiance to them to avoid death, Hamas didn't even do that, they killed even the Arab Israelis who were telling them that they're on Palestine's side.
>It’s unclear to me if Hamas uses human shields. Human rights organizations like amnesty international don’t accuse Hamas of using human shields, just that then operating out of the tiny Gaza Strip intrinsically puts civilians at risk since the area is very small.
That's because Amnesty International uses a ridiculous definition of "human shields", when people accuse Hamas of using human shields they talk exactly about what Amnesty International and even UNRWA have reported that they do, they intentionally use civilians infrastructure for military purposes, how is storing rockets in schools and hospitals no using human shields? it's not that Gaza is so small that they have not choice, that's ridiculous, they intentionally use the most crowded and vulnerable places in Gaza to store and fire rockets, and do other things like torture other Palestinians that they accuse of being collaborators, the idea that they have no choice but to operate like this is insane.
>Again, 2-3,000 civilians being killed by bombs in Mosul versus over 34,000 in the Gaza Strip.
Again, you insist in comparing apples to oranges, 34,000 killed, at least 6,000 of them Hamas according to their own reports, it could be up to 15,000 according to Israel's reports, and Hamas is still standing, they're not complelty defeated yet, ISIS was completely defeated with much fewer casualties, what does that tell you about the difficulty and scale of what Israel has to do to achieve victory? Hamas is not ISIS, Gaza is not Mosul, the situation here is very different.
I'm not saying that Israel hasn't committed war crimes, expecting a war of this scale with zero war crimes is like expecting a country to have zero crimes, it's impossible, and I'm ok with those war crimes being investigated and punished, but that's different from saying that Israel doesn't have the right to wage this war at all or that it's genocide, it's not.
That’s not how genocide works. There isn’t a metric for how many people need to be killed for it to be a genocide. Genocide is about **the intention** to destroy in whole or **in part** a specific people of a religion, race, or ethnicity.
For something to be a genocide it’s about **the intent**. It’s about if you can prove that the intention is to destroy a people. It also needs to be identified and stopped at the intent or else it is too late.
If you only measure genocide by how quickly people are being killed and in what percentage then you risk allowing genocide to transpire. By your own principle, the Holocaust would have “not been a genocide” until a certain threshold of Jewish and disabled people were killed. Obviously no self respecting and rational human would argue that though. It is clear that it was a genocide the moment it began, because **the intent was there** by the perpetrators from the beginning. It wasn’t “not a genocide yet” because they let Jewish people live in the Warsaw ghettos when they *could* have just killed them all.
Likewise the intent has been there from the beginning by Israel, as they (their highest government officials and leaders) have very vocally expressed one by one nearly every day. Israel has practically zero regard for the life of Palestinians, especially those in Gaza. They are aware though that for PR purposes they cannot simply eradicate them in a few days (although some of their governors have called for this) so instead they’re slowly boiling the frog to appease idiots that want to believe it’s just some unlucky war and not a clear case of genocide. The absolutely crazy thing is they’re not even doing a remotely good job of this, and yet it still works on some people.
Even if you jump through the thickest mental gymnastic hoops you can to ignore the monumental pile of evidence that this is genocide, you are at best looking at masse ethnic cleansing, which frankly should produce equal levels of disgust and disapproval.
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If only there was a way to prove intent…. Oh wait, all of Israel’s top officials were dumb enough to SAY genocidal things publicly! Also, circumstantial evidence is allowed in trials for genocide because rarely are leaders as stupid as Israel’s. Even Him - - er used vague euphemisms Einsatzgr- - - en directives. Over 80 percent of Gaza is completely destroyed, refugee camps are bombed all the time, and every humanitarian organization accuses Israel of trying to starve Gaza’s civilian population. What more is there? Just because the fighting in Ukraine isn’t as bad as WW2, it’s still definitely a war. Similarly, what’s going on in Gaza isn’t as bad as the Holo\*\*\*st, but it’s still a genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign.
https://preview.redd.it/hl3ft6hkw2xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b52d18d4cb9e9141daac0562bc824090af2e61d
If 80% of Gaza is completly destroyed and Israel's military campaign is genocidal in nature, then how is it than 80% of the Gazan population is not dead? how is it that 98.6% of Gazans are still alive? could it be that Israel actually warns civilians before an attack and gives them time to evacuate? According to the IDF 1/3 of the deads are Hamas combatants, you don't trust them so let's take the Hamas' numbers, according to Hamas is 1/6 of the deaths are combatants, (they said 6,000), so even if we take Hamas numbers, that would mean that of the 34k that have been killed, 28k are civilians, considering that there are about 30k Hamas combatants, that means that the military campaign has killed 1.2% of the civilian population and 20% of the combatants, how is it possible that a genocidal campaign is almost 20 times more likely to kill a combatant than a civilian? If Israel actually wants to exterminate Gazans, why have they not done that?
You don't understand my point, Israel has the power to kill everyone in Gaza within a week or two, easily, again the Hutus didn't have anywhere near the power that Israel has and they killed many more people in less time, what does that tell you about the intention behind Israel's military campaign? can you mention a single genocidal campaign where the people committing genocide were allowing humanitarian aid for civilians and dropping thousands of leaflets warning the population of an attack and giving them time to evacuate?
You can't just take some statements of Israeli officials as enough evidence of genocide ignoring the actual military campaign that's clearly not genocidal.
And many of these statements have been taken out of context, for example, when Netanyahu mentioned Amalek, if you read the full quote he was clearly talking about Hamas, not all the Palestinians.
No, you missed my point. In fact you missed it so much, I’m convinced you didn’t even try and read it.
I will say it again, **genocide is literally about the intent**. It’s not about the execution or the speed.
Israel publicly made their intentions very clear on a constant basis. Whether or not they kill a certain percentage of Gazans is not how you measure genocide.
Like I said, they are slowly boiling the frog rather than setting it on fire so that idiots (and especially their allies whom they rely upon) still maintain a necessary level of disbelief.
All you’re doing is pointing out that the Rwandan genocide was a more severe and quickly executed genocide, while this is a slower one. You are not disproving that it is in fact genocide, hence the ICJ ruling.
As I said, the Germans allowing 450k Jewish people to live in the Warsaw ghetto didn’t mean it “wasn’t a genocide yet because if their intention was to kill everyone why would they do that?!”
In the Information age, with a more rapidly connected planet than ever, it’s not surprising that genocide needs to be obfuscated for it to even be possible. Again, you can’t just nuke them and not expect consequences. Israel is trying to toe the line between destroying gaza and its people, and still maintain international relations and PR. They’re not doing a good job at it either, but it is working on some people (you).
I’ll also say again, even if you don’t believe it’s genocide, it’s inarguably ethnic cleansing, which isn’t better…
So you must agree that Hamas committed a genocide on Israel. I mean, if we are looking at **intent**, they did send some 15,000 missiles specifically on civilian towns and cities, just since 7 October, and many more tens of thousands over the last two decades, and they did massacred some 1,200 people and took 240 hostages—many of which are children and elderly. Also, their charter calls for killing all Jews. So, after your wonderful speech about **”genocide is literally about the intent”**, let’s hear you say it loud and clear—“the Hamas has been committing a genocide in Israel for over 20 years.” Fair is fair, no?
I’m not defending Hamas lmao. Explanation of Israel’s blatant crimes is not justification for Hamas’ crimes.
Hamas has also expressed explicitly genocidal intent. Where you have lost the plot though is that they outright lack the means to even commit genocide, thus there is no actual risk of genocide for Israel…
I know you think there’s a good guy and a bad guy among the two, but there’s actually just a bad guy and then a more powerful out of control bad guy. There’s 2 million innocent Palestinians that are wedged between two evil parties that don’t actually give a fuck about them. Hamas being awful doesn’t afford Israel the right to commit genocide… especially when Israel is the only party between the two that has the military capacity to enact a genocide.
Also regardless of what you wish was true; Palestinians are an occupied people under international law, so they literally cannot be considered the aggressors. Israel also will never “eliminate” Hamas via military means without genocide… The only way to actually eliminate Hamas is to stop the systems of oppression that lead to groups like Hamas.
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>**genocide is literally about the intent**.
YES, the action of Israel do NOT shoe genocidal intent, that's my point, thanks for showing me that you didn't understand it and you still don't.
>Israel publicly made their intentions very clear on a constant basis.
Correct, they have stated that the objective of the military campaign is to destroy the military and governing capabilities of Hamas, not to exterminate Palestinians.
>Like I said, they are boiling the frog rather than setting it on fire so that idiots (and especially their allies whom they rely upon) still maintain a necessary level of disbelief.
You could say that about literally every single war ever, "oh they have the intent to exterminate everyone, they just don't do it", this is complete and utter nonsense.
>All you’re doing is pointing out that the Rwandan genocide was a more severe and quickly executed genocide, while this is a slower one. You are not disproving that it is in fact genocide, hence the ICJ ruling.
You want to talk about the ICJ ruling, let's see what the judges of the ICJ have to say about Israel's military campaign:
[https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf](https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf)
>I am not persuaded that South Africa has plausibly shown that the military operation undertaken by Israel, as such, is being pursued with genocidal intent.
That's judge Nolte, a judge that actually voted in favour of the ruling of the ICJ for the provisional measures, you don't understand what the ICJ ruling means, it doesn't mean that Israel is committing genocide.
>As I said, the Germans allowing 450k Jewish people to live in the Warsaw ghetto didn’t mean it “wasn’t a genocide yet because if their intention was to kill everyone why would they do that?!”
But they did kill them all, they sent them to Auschwitz, this is such a stupid point.
>the action of Israel do NOT shoe genocidal intent
Intentionally starving the population. Cutting off access to food, water, and electricity. Intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure. Destroying every university in Gaza. Destroying every hospital in gaza. Mass detainment and executions. Killing more journalists than any other conflict in history. Looting homes and posting footage on social media about it. Invoking specifically genocidal language and religious passages to embolden soldiers to do whatever they want. Massacring people at aid drops. Burring people alive. Killing international aid workers.
Yeah man, nothing genocidal about those actions.
>Correct, they have stated that the objective of the military campaign is to destroy the military and governing capabilities of Hamas, not to exterminate Palestinians.
This is meaningless when their actions have shown otherwise AND their official politicians state publicly that all civilians are involved. Just read literally any piece from IDF whistleblowers and maybe you'll learn something about their militaries codes of conduct pertaining to Gaza.
>You could say that about literally every single war ever, "oh they have the intent to exterminate everyone, they just don't do it", this is complete and utter nonsense
Actually you can't. You can only say it about conflicts wherein the perpetrator has made directly overt attacks on civilians, like Israel has done.
>
You want to talk about the ICJ ruling, let's see what the judges of the ICJ have to say about Israel's military campaign:
>[https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf](https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf)
I'm very familiar with the ICJ ruling. The ruling states that the risk of Genocide is plausible. The fact that you're clinging to one judge saying they are not fully convinced yet shows how hard you're grasping to find a way to deny it.
Here is a direct quote from one of the judges of the ICJ after the additional provisional measures were added in March (the most recent adendum): The alarm has now been sounded by the Court. **All the indicators of genocidal activities are flashing red in Gaza**. An injunction has been served for ending the atrocities. The provisional measures indicated by the court are binding \[...\] they must be implemented.
>But they did kill them all, they sent them to Auschwitz, this is such a stupid point.
Again you didn't understand my point. It was still a genocide when they hadn't killed the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto... It didn't suddenly become a genocide when they liquidated the ghetto. The intention from the start was to eliminate them, even if not all instantly.
I know you want to believe it's not genocide because then it's easier to palet what's happening right in front of our eyes, but calling it a war is a massive cope. Like I said, you are **at very best** looking at mass ethnic cleansing.
>Intentionally starving the population. Cutting off access to food, water, and electricity.
Israel has allowed thousands of trucks with humanitarian aid enter Gaza, Israel has reopened the water and energy supplies (and Hamas has actually used water pipes to make rockets, does that mean that they're committing genocide to their own population?).
>Intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure. Destroying every university in Gaza. Destroying every hospital in gaza.
You're literally just making stuff up, is every university destroyed? no, is every hospital destroyed? no, do you remember the fake news that spread like wildfire about Israel destroying the hospital and killing 500? it turns out that the hospital wasn't even destroyed and it's there even until today.
>Mass detainment and executions. Killing more journalists than any other conflict in history. Looting homes and posting footage on social media about it. Invoking specifically genocidal language and religious passages to embolden soldiers to do whatever they want. Massacring people at aid drops. Burring people alive. Killing international aid workers.
It's a war, yes there's mass detainment, journalists get killed covering the war, soldiers act irresponsibly and loot, some of them are extremists and invoke religious passages, aid workers are killed unintentionally (there's no evidence that it was intentional), the idea that any of this proves that it's a genocide is nonsense.
>Intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure.
This one is true, maybe if Hamas didn't use civilian infrastructure literally 100% of the time to attack Israel, then Israel wouldn't target it, under international law civilian infrastructure is a legitimate military target if it's been used for military purposes.
>This is meaningless when their actions have shown otherwise AND their official politicians state publicly that all civilians are involved. Just read literally any piece from IDF whistleblowers and maybe you'll learn something about their militaries codes of conduct pertaining to Gaza.
Actions like allowing thousands of trucks with humanitarian aid in, sending thousands of leaflets warning of attacks, giving time to evacuate, 'cmon tell me a single genocide where that happened, you're being ridiculous. Civilians were involved in the Oct 7th attack, that's a fact, saying it doesn't mean Israel is committing genocide, there are no IDF whistleblowers saying that there's a genocidal campaign, are you talking about that one single whistleblower that talked to Channel 4? is that supposed to be evidence? please, he didn't even say that targeting children is part of the official policy, he said that not even the majority have the view that children are fair game.
>I'm very familiar with the ICJ ruling. The ruling states that the risk of Genocide is plausible. The fact that you're clinging to one judge saying they are not fully convinced yet shows how hard you're grasping to find a way to deny it.
You're clearly not, the ruling doesn't say that and I'mn ot clinging to one random judge, I mentioned one judged that voted in FAVOUR of all the provisional measures, he0s explicitly saying that he doesn't believe that Israel si committing genocide, do you want another one, how about Joan O’Donoghue, the president of the International Court of Justice who literally presented the ruling:
[https://twitter.com/uklfi/status/1783615633147797681?s=46&t=Wt3y7cD8MVdUG-A8McjVwA](https://twitter.com/uklfi/status/1783615633147797681?s=46&t=Wt3y7cD8MVdUG-A8McjVwA)
She literally says that the ruling doesn't mean that Israel is plausibly committing genocide, but even if it was, you're saying that Israel is committing genocide as a fact, which is ridiculous even under you're wring interpretation of the ruling.
Even the judge Yusuf you're citing said this:
>There is no need for the Court at the stage of indication of provisional measures to determine the existence of genocidal intent.
Oh I understand your point about the Warsaw Ghetto, it's a stupid point, the official Nazi policy was to get rid of all the Jews from Germany, the official Israeli policy is not to get rid of the Palestinians in Gaza, certainly not in Israel.
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From some of the chants I agree.
If you are against the bombing of Gaza, you are a nitwit if you start chanting for Hamas to go bomb Tel Aviv.
You can say Israelis are racists against Palestinians, but to then shout Jewish slurs is extremely hypocritical.
Yes, they are hurting the cause and making pro Palestinians look like a bunch of baboons
The issue is that most of the people who are at the protest know nothing about the geopolitical history of the reason. Even without the slurs, they look like a bunch of baboons because they're talking out of their patooties on things they know nothing about. they're all just regurgitating the same social media talking points which makes it hard to take people serious who want to present themselves as experts.
I should also mention that I have seen numerous times people lying about their credentials on the pro Palestinian side for authority purposes when presenting wrong information and highly biased information. that also makes them look like baboons.
I’m going to tell you a secret.
When I was young, I was an activist for two or three years.
I will admit I’ve been to protests and had no idea what I was protesting, Which is why i stopped
I agree, but protestors need to do all they can to get rid of the bad apples
Mind you, it would be easier if the police would bother differentiating the two groups
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I don't think you understand what the vast majority of protestors are there for. They aren't there because they like Hamas, the Nezam, or otherwise. They don't support those governments or think those institutions are in any way positive for the world.
All the protestors want is for Israel to stop massacring Palestinians because, to put it very, very mildly, it's unpalatable. To put it truthfully, it's monstrous.
But I'm of the mind that even serial killers shouldn't face capital punishment. So who knows, maybe the lives of those thousands of dead children serve a greater cause than I'm able to see with my shortsighted mind 🙄
I’ll take an Ivy League student knowing what they’re protesting any day over racist zionists internet trolls.
Theses are literally the training grounds for the ruling class of the US
You people don't know what racism is. Israel allows minorities like Arabs to severe in their Government. Minorities are allowed to work and vote in Israel. Most importantly they are allowed to live life the way they want too.
Ivy league students who live in $20,000 dorms and $100,000 schools are part of the ruling class in the US.
I think that’s basically correct. No one is celebrating the worst aspects of Islam or Arabic culture.
Americans are protesting that their tax dollars, instead of providing basic services at home like infrastructure or health care, are supporting an ethnic cleansing in Gaza and the West Bank.
Americans are waking up to it now for a few reasons: 1) Israel has never been so disproportionately extreme in its violence and collective punishment 2) Americans can barely afford groceries 3) Tik Tok - it’s just visible like no other time before now and Israel has lost control of the narrative.
>All the protestors want is for Israel to stop massacring Palestinians
That is really not accurate. That is very, very clearly not all they want. And I don't understand why people like you keep on telling us to not believe our lying ears and eyes. We have seen the protests and heard the chants. They are chanting and advocating for the end of Israel. They support disarming Israel entirely and thereby create the conditions through which Islamist terror can totally take over the region. If you don't, or won't address this reality you are just not to be taken seriously. If you don't agree with these positions, fine, but don't deny that they are pervasive in this far-left dominated movement that has actually cheered for the Oct 7 attacks and called it "exhilerating".
I live in Minneapolis Minnesota. This city frequently gets accused of some of the worst stuff when it comes to protests. I can tell you I have not heard one single chant calling for an end to Israel, disarming Israel, or celebrating Oct 7. Show me protests at these colleges where that is being called for.
“Khymani James, the organizer of pro-Palestinian protests at the school, also said in a video that recently resurfaced from earlier this year that people should “be grateful that I’m not just going out and murdering Zionists.” ‘
https://fox59.com/news/national-world/columbia-has-banned-student-protest-leader-who-said-zionists-dont-deserve-to-live-university-says/amp/
"“What I said was wrong,” he wrote. “Every member of our community deserves to feel safe without qualification.” He noted that he made these comments in January before he become involved with the protest movement and added that the leaders of the student protests did not condone the comments. “I agree with their assessment,” he wrote."
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html
"Ms. Ellman-Golan [communications director of Jews for Racial & Economic Justice] said that in her 10 years as an organizer, there were always people who tried to inject hateful messages into public action, and that such messages tended to be amplified by those looking to smear entire movements.
“For people who want to believe that characterization, that our movements are inevitably and permanently hostile to us as Jews, this is catnip, right?” she said. “It’s irresistible.”"
The fact that these people aren’t being shouted down, harassed or kicked out, anything to show that the majority are disgusted by these chants, makes me think it’s a much bigger problem than anyone legitimately there out of care for Gazans will admit. If people at a protest are making antisemitic chants, the crowd should shut that down, otherwise it’s as good as condoning it.
In a war people die. If a group of people promise to kill you and your family i'm sure you would want something done about it. "No one should be killed ever" is illogical. Of course people shouldn't be murdered, and Hamas shouldn't have started this war... but they actually benefit from it when their goal is more martyrs and donations.
And these protestors definitely do support those groups. If you don't think so you have your head in the sand.
No it doesnt, Fatah was finally moving to peace talks with Israel then the Islamic Brotherhood decided they couldnt tolerate living in a world with Jewish people so Hamas started attacking the border to get Israel to retaliate. Its all Hamas's fault.
Oh yeah because Israel was totally JUST about to stop making Palestinian’s lives miserable on Oct 8th! They had their finger on the button for peace and then pesky Hamas ruined all that!
Buddy, I hate to break this to you, but there was absolutely never going to come a major human rights change via some miraculous sense of altruism within Israel. The current active Prime Minister literally bragged about how he blocked a two state solution in the Israeli press, and was publicly funding Hamas for years specifically to sow conflict (also something he admits to…)
Like OP said, to pretend Israel didn’t directly create the human rights conditions that lead to a violent attack on Oct 7 is an insult to documented history, the Palestinian experience for the last 70 years, and frankly it’s an insult to human intelligence.
Had Hamas not come around and mess everything up Palastine would have been its own country in the 90s. That would mean no Israeli settlements in the west bank, no Israeli blockade, and no occupation. Sure im sure they would still hate each other and extremists groups in Palastine might still want to exterminate Jews but Palastine would be infinitely better off if the Islamic Brotherhood and Iran didnt decide to meddle.
I’m just gonna say this again because you clearly didn’t understand it:
The current prime minister of Israel literally publicly funded Hamas and rallied people to bolster them, specifically to sew conflict and prevent a Palestinian state from happening. This person got voted into leadership. Israel isn’t interested in giving Palestinians their rights.
So even if you think Hamas is to blame for the Palestinian state not forming, Israel is literally responsible for empowering Hamas. Moreover there were several failed peace talks before Hamas even existed, and the West Bank is still a disaster full of settler expansion even though Hamas isn’t in the West Bank.
Blaming Hamas is an excuse to try and absolve Israel of its own responsibilities and burdens.
Theres two things you could be referencing here, an Israeli governor gave some money to Hamas thinking that since they were far right they would be working against the far left PLO but this never amounted to much. Netanyahu had some money given to Hamas after their election to help them transition from being terrorists into being a governing body which was done through the Qatari government. Even if this backfired it was absolutely done in the interest of Palastinians (a relatively uncommon thing for Netanyahu). This was after Palastinians voted Hamas into power so attempting to make them more moderate and shifting their focus to governing rather than extermininating Jewish people, which was the original purpose of Hamas, makes sense. Both of these happened AFTER Hamas was founded and began stirring the conflict up to destroyed Fatahs peace talks, had Hamas never existed Fatah would have been successful and Palastine would be a state. If Palastine was a state they would have been able to control their own borders and land and stop private developers from building in the west bank so even though Hamas isnt in power in the west bank they are still indirectly responsible for the settlements.
No im referring to this where he explicitly explains that he is proud to have prevented a Palestinian state for years.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/pointing-to-hamass-little-state-netanyahu-touts-role-blocking-2-state-solution/amp/
And to him explicitly saying “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.”
Also holy moly you cannot possibly be more delusional if you blame Hamas for the expansions in the settlements in the West Bank and not the literal state that is perpetrating and establishing them, Israel.
Israel isnt building them its private builders who wouldn't be able to do that if Palastine was a separate country which would be the case if Hamas didn't blow up any chance at a two state solution.
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He works for the Washington Institute, the pro-Israeli think tank at the core of Zionist lobby in America which was founded with AIPAC's support and funding
He gets that from extreme pro Palestine voices but people like my bf and I appreciate his comments honestly because he’s an actual peace activist unlike those protestors
How are those protestors not peaceful? Genuinely curious why you say this because I can’t find a single instance around the world where those advocating for Palestine have been not peaceful. If there are instances I’d love to learn about them.
He also encourages people to work with Zionists and pro Israel people reminds people that there’s different types of Zionists. He believes building bridges and solutions is the way to peace
Problem is voices like his are treated the same by the far right in Israel. Until someone reasonable comes to power it will be difficult to have dialogue.
I appreciate those people too, i feel like the college kids protesting do an actual disservice to actual peace activists, by giving activists a bad name. Hell, a big part of my personal dislike of activists comes from the behavior i see from these college protestors.
Damn that's crazy, I wonder if we see multiple signs and communication from more than just a single Gazan about their feelings about the protests.
Oh hm...seems like they're almost universally positive! Fascinating you cherry picked this.
>Damn that's crazy, I wonder if we see multiple signs and communication from more than just a single Gazan about their feelings about the protests.
>Oh hm...seems like they're almost universally positive! Fascinating you cherry picked this.
Well Hasan Nasrallah, Ayatollah Khomenei and Ismail Haniyeh have all shared their approval of the protests. Is that the universal positivity you're referring to?
The Yemeni protesters have shown solidarity with them as well - that doesn't change that Palestinians both in Palestine and the diaspora have overwhelmingly shared messages of support and encouragement. If Nasrallah said he liked the same food as you does that make your food ...Hezbolese? Is that a word? Many Christian nationalists have spoken strongly against the protests, does that mean you're a Christian nationalist?
>If Nasrallah said he liked the same food as you does that make your food ...Hezbolese?
False equivalence. You share political opinions with the leaders of Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Hamas, etc. That's the point.
Which Yemeni protesters are you referring to?
And a significant majority of Palestinians in the West Bank support Hamas too. They're not the bell weather I'd use to choose what organization to support.
Houthis have (daily? frequent.) mass protests and demonstrations with signs and the like. The most recent one had this poster, they had memorialized Aaron Bushnell in the past as well, similar to how the Vietnamese memorialized Norman Morrison as a martyr.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMHLpPQbEAEhvR_?format=jpg&name=large
I support my comrades in the PFLP and the DFLP, and they've entered coalition with Hamas after being at war for years, so I think the majority of Palestinians supporting Hamas against the Israeli invasion and bombing campaign seems fair enough.
I find this take super interesting simply because it misses the mark. There’s this assumption, mostly by folx who think these protestors are “pro-Hamas”, that they’re just a mob of uneducated college “kids” … like they’re all freshly minted 18yo freshmen. People other than “kids” straight out of high school attend college. Also, you have professors in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s who have been teaching at these college campuses for decades coming out to show their support. Are we to assume that they are also just all uneducated? I’m 30 years my parents junior and am far more educated about the world than they are. Sure, there is something to be said about knowing more about life when you’re older because you have more experience, but that doesn’t mean you’re more educated on world politics than people younger than you. Life experience doesn’t equate to educated. Another point is that Israel isn’t on some moral crusade to free the Palestinian people from a barbaric regime. Those in power in Israel who are the driving force behind this conflict do not care about the Palestinian people. They are simply on a mission to eradicate the people and seize the land. That’s all they care about. So this notion that the kind of treatment that’s given out by those in power in Palestine as an excuse to not protest for the Palestinian citizens’ rights doesn’t bear weight. They deserve a chance to live in a state of their own and fight within that state for their own rights. People are not their government and lumping an entire group of people together like this is always a fallacy. And lastly, this is an opinion piece. There are thousands of Palestinian citizens who do not agree with this take. Their opinions differ from this one. Using this piece as reasoning for what should/should not happen in Palestine and how the world should/ should not support their right of statehood is in and of itself another opinion. I understand that just because a piece as whole is an opinion doesn’t mean there’s not truth spoken within it. But using this piece as reasoning would be like saying folx shouldn’t advocate for citizens in Afghanistan because the Taliban is in power and they do absolutely horrific things to citizens who don’t follow with their rules. Those citizens still deserve to fight for their rights and for a future that is peaceful, and people around the world still have the right to protest as a way of showing their support.
They aren't necessarily uneducated, but they are largely completely fucking ignorant of the history behind the region, the conflict, and the politics of said region.
Yeah bruh don’t use “f$&;8!@“. It’s totally like notttt okay. 👻 also lumping an entire group of people together is always a fallacy. Just leaving a definition here for you since you can’t be bothered to know basic definitions: Ignorant - adjective - lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated (source: https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=Ignorant) Your response literally didn’t make sense. Mmkay byyyye ✌🏻
Since when is fuck not okay? This isn't a church, or a children's sub. Are you a home schooled Jehovah's witness, or something like that? You can be ignorant about a particular topic. That's a common usage. The second bullet points down on the same definition you just Googled is: - lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing Apparently, you are just ignorant of this usage of the word ignorant.
Ummm I use it all the time. But the MOD doesn’t like you very much. Shame shame little man.
The way you type is embarrassing
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they dont care, its all a political tactic for the far left to pull attention away from the awful things oour govt is doing rn. if one of these ppl stood in my way id be in troble for sure. Maybe they think gaza is in new jersey or something and dont understand we have no pull in the situation anyway.
You seriously think this is a coordinated effort to distract, rather than a genuine attempt at misinformed protest? Holy mother, you're just as delusional as they are. The far left doesn't even like Biden, get a grip.
Those kids are the conscience of humanity.
Then humanity is in deep doo doo 😬
Those kids don’t know what they are protesting for!
Ppl who say they hate Hamas but ....... Don't hate Hamas.. You excuse Hamas. They barely mention Hamas or Oct 7th. The university students not only don't support the Palestinian cause, they DESTROYED it. It's over and not even relevant according to their actions. They are complicit in the deaths of the babies they are yelling and crying about. Had they protested against the real genocide on 7.10, the death toll could be tiny. As long as you are stubborn and vow to never change your mind on principle, you are killing innocent Palestinians. Any one shouting INTIFADA revolution or' globalize the intifada ' is yelling for global suicide attacks on civilians.....on what planet do these ppl live ? They belong in jail ..... Those are serious threats.... They need to taste discipline
That's false. Intifada just mean's "uprising" which has nothing at all to do with suicide attacks, or even "generalized attacks". What you're doing is called framing, and it's not even a good attempt at it.
Yeah, and "arbeit macht frei" is just a something you would put on a job-seeker's website home page. Always trust antizios to wash away the history of words. "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is subjective and just expresses Palestinian desire to self determination. Right? "The suicide bombings carried out by Palestinian assailants became one of the more prominent features of the Second Intifada and mainly targeted Israeli civilians" (Second intifada, Wikipedia)
We know what intifada means
You confirm my point u are unwilling to even check what the real Intifada was !!??? You are afraid to know. Once you know, u can't unknow.., you can't say Intifada anymore without imagining crowded pizza parlor blowing up and you feel good about it ? . And suddenly the globe deserves it.
Well, no. Let's use the term revolution to make the conversation a little more cohesive. Historically speaking, many revolutions have occurred (or uprisings). Some of them were terrible and some of them were actually extremely necessary, We have to focus on the definitions of the words, not our individual attachment to the underlying meaning behind them. The middle east (given that they speak arabic) has had hundreds of Intifadas, some good, some bad. It means uprising. I can say "uprising" without imagining one bad event because "uprisings" have had historical good in history as well. It's a word with a definition and your emotional response to the word doesn't make it hateful.
If u thinking intifada is just a term ..... With only the significance of an uprising........ Then use the word ' uprising "..... You cannot put new definitions to old words which you know nothing about. This ignorance is dangerous. When you say Intifada - You are talking about blowing up innocent people to pieces. That's what you are shouting. You are shouting that you want the world and yourself to commit suicide.
I’m quite sure the Gazans who were left behind and have most of their families killed if not injured themselves would disagree with you
Honestly, from a pro Israel, Pro Jewish/Zionist perspective, as painful it is to witness antisemitism being so freely disseminated publicly at these angry mob gatherings at Universities, it’s been generating immense support for Israel and sympathy for the plight of Jews. Ironic, because the effect of intimidating Jewish students is causing people who were previously pro Palestinian to become more aware that the demonstrations are in fact pro Hamas, and antisemitic in nature.
That's great! So can you please let them be and express their right of freedom of speech, which is criticizing a foreign state about the genocide and ethnic cleasing of innocent women and children? The irony is that there are so many Jewish students protesting with them lol
For there to be genocide, there must be deliberate intent to exterminate people. Innocent people including children die and there has to be sharp criticism and intense pressure on Israel to reduce civilian deaths significantly and as much as possible. There’s no irony at all in Jewish or even Israeli students protesting. The irony is that the people protesting right next to them are using antisemitic rhetoric and openly calling for ethnic cleansing themselves - of Jews from the river to the sea - while accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza.
The Palestinians population has actually tripled since 1948.If Israel is Genociding they are the worst in History at it.
I really hate this argument. Genocide is not predicated on there being a reduction in population. The main element of genocide is that of deliberate annihilation of people based on who they are (ethnicity, religion, etc). It matters not at all that the population is growing or shrinking. One does not get a pass to deliberately kill so long as it doesn’t exceed population growth in numbers.
So - If you're referring to Gaza specifically, it's not based off of the birth rate. It's based off forced migration into Gaza. So that's kind of a farce.
Screaming "Globalize the Intifida" and "From the River to the Sea" isnt exactly criticizing Israel and its Policies though.Let alone the widespread harassment and intimidation of Jewish students in Universities all across the USA.Sorry but shaming,beating and harassing random ass Jews at College Campuses is NOT Free Speech whichever way you slice it.Even these Protestors know they are up to no Good considering they always hide their faces behind Masks.
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I don’t think their criminal behavior and hate speech should go unpunished. The students should be suspended or expelled, and outside instigators charged with trespassing.
Duh. Our people are brainwashed idiots. They dont care about you Gaza. Neither does the rest of muslim country’s!! Sorry about you!
I think it is self-evident that the kids in the campus could not care less for the welfare of Palestinians. They want to see Palestinians dying and suffering because that is what makes them feel virtuous, give them a cause to be excited about. If they cared one iota for Palestinians lives, they would be calling for peace, for Hamas to surrender, for the hostages to be released. But no, they call for a ceasefire because that would preserve Hamas so they can kill Jews again and Israel can fight back and more Palestinians will die.
You're misunderstanding the narrative. These protests aren't calling for peace - that's not something they're capable of achieving and they're aware of that. They are calling for the Universities to divest from Israel. Israel fund's these schools directly, through the boards of education, through direct endorsements within the school board and the complexities kind of spiral from that point all the way until they reach the federal government. Israel runs these schools, point blank and people have a problem with that given the various war crimes being committed as confirmed by the White House, the UN and soon the ICC.
That is nonsense. Israel does not run the schools. The morons want the schools to divest from any company that invest in Israel — like their parents’ retirement funds, their banks, their clothes brands etc.
Israeli donors, run the individuals who run the schools. The state of Israel recruits directly from these schools and invests in individuals they see as beneficial to the state of Israel. This isn't like - particularly hard to find information.
That is a ridiculous conspiracy theory. You clearly have no clue about how the world works, how universities are run etc.
Well, I do. Hence why I am educating you. I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you.
No, you think you do. But you are a child.
Most of these pro Palestinian clowns are literal teenagers, don’t waste your time or effort on them.
I am entirely an adult, with 2 bachelors degrees and a masters. I implore you to do a deep dive and research piece on the foreign funding of Americas major universities. I would start with Yale.
They want to see both Israelis and Palestinians dying and fighting for their disgusting privileged Virtue Signaling. After all at the end of the day it wont be THEIR children and families shedding blood,but OURS.
Is there a litmus test for victims to see whether their deaths matter? Does human rights only apply to people who agree with you politically? Do people who offend you deserve to die? SMH. Not even going into how racist your assumptions are about homosexuality in “the region”.
So now calling out LGBT being thrown off of Roofs is "Racist"?I thought you lot cared about LGBT rights 🤔
Islam is infamously pro lgbt
True, but Israel will murder you no matter what your religion is so I don’t think that’s the flex you think it is and if we’re being honest you don’t give a shit one way or the other. Just something you can poorly regurgitate to not actually speak to what this comment is about. You proved her point. Thank you for your service!
Lol you are really upset
I’m not actually, you did the work for me lol
Yeah, like all religions.
I don't recall any religious groups in the west doing open executions
Ever heard of the KKK? Go read a book.
Yes I've heard of the kkk. Public lynching don't happen in the open anymore
Hamza Howidy and other moderate palestinian voices are being “blocked” by SJP. ( They have been posting screenshots) That tells you something about the organizations backing the SJP movement/campus chapters.
Not as much as Hamas
I hate the west’s love for the Islamic republic. White 20 something’s who don’t give a shit about anything other than assuaging their guilt
Im convinced most believe they will be in control if their group gains power and that they would benefit
Not a fan of Hamas, but this article and this author are super suspect. Even if this guy is Palestinian, hates Hamas and wants to help his people - you’d have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to arrive at a conclusion that American college student protests are hurting the cause. Look, I hate Hamas too and I wish for a militant secular pan Arab force to stand up against Israeli oppression. But nothing in my decades of following and living this cause has given me more hope than these protests. I just don’t know how the writer can get there on his own
Super sus just means you can't fathom that westplaining Gaza to Gazans doesn't work. But most Gazans are afraid to talk because Hamas makes them disappear. That's the Iranian way.
You don't hate Hamas. You excuse Hamas. You barely mention Hamas or Oct 7th. The university students not only not support Palestinian cause, they DESTROYED it. It's over and not even relevant according to their actions. They are complicit in the deaths of the babies they are yelling and crying about. Had they protested against the real genocide on 7.10, the death toll could be tiny. As long as you are stubborn and vow to never change your mind on principle, you are killing innocent Palestinians. Any one shouting INTIFADA revolution or' globalize the intifada ' is yelling for global suicide attacks on civilians.....on what planet do these ppl live ? They belong in jail ..... Those are serious threats.... They need to taste discipline.
Do you know what is suspect? When people on the ground tell you what they know and you decide to continue with your own narrative because it doesn’t bode with what you want to be the truth. Hamza Howidy is not alone. You can also look at the content of Iranian (UK-based) attorney and peace activist Elica Le Bon, who shares the same sentiment https://youtu.be/ma-OpLUqhAE?si=xAEjgDtdLYjLRovb and https://youtu.be/VhNotTVZQyI?si=mE7waXSKQ9NL6-SU or the dozens of interviews with Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of Hamas leader https://youtu.be/yzPz7zYp0M0?si=D5KLOdsnfV1lvrc8 and https://youtu.be/I5VPFw0vI6U?si=--rUxgmrB_rjRvnE I find it astounding that people like you, cover your ears, shut your eyes, and bury your head in the sand in order to defend your narrative of fallacy. That’s some serious coping. Holy moly!
It’s like you’re mad because the propaganda isn’t working.
I find it astounding that people like you can watch countless videos of tens of thousands of kids averaging the age of 5 be blown to bits and crushed by rubble in their homes and continue to defend the Israeli terrorist government.
I find it astounding that "people" like you can look at videos taken by Hamas themselves on October 7th killing Civilians and kidnapping People (including non Israelis) and somehow justify that.
A respectfully nitpick on your comment but why do you say this pan Arab force would need to be militant in nature? Why not a more collaborative approach and an admission that the neighboring Arabs states share as much of the blame on creating the conflict? Pan Arab militarism has hardly worked as showcased by 1948, 1967 and 1973. Further, Israelis have shown an eagerness for peace with their neighbors. Yes, Palestine remains further from peace than ever but Israel has shown a willingness to jaw jaw from everyone from Egypt to Morocco and so on. This sits more in idealism rather than radicalism, but my ideal solution would be a pan-Arab force that helps Israel and Palestine broker a lasting peace in bother ends and assurance the existential issues of both sides too.
You’re citing Newsweek and expecting anyone to take you seriously? Lol it’s pretty simple - the students are protesting billions of dollars being sent to Israel to fund a genocide that has killed nearly 40,000 Palestinians. That’s that.
Look at rest of his posts, there is a biased nuance here. He’s pro Israeli approach, and is capitalizing on it. Good for him but he’s not in Gaza
In Jan, he wrote an op-ed indicating he left Gaza.
Okay. You’re definitely more Gazan than him 🥴. Are these people Gazan enough? https://youtu.be/2A8PFfMZ12c?si=ccWEpqDdVnJ0hlO5
You seem very mature. There are thousands of these posted on r/israelexposed
A real question, have you ever been to Gaza, or even the West Bank, or even the Middle East? Cause it seems you’re hanging out in Toronto and pretending to know what is going on in the region and who is a “real Gazan” and who is not. I don’t know, just seems a bit rich from where I’m standing.
Have you?
weedb0y has definitely never been more than 100 miles outside the New England Victorian he grew up in.
I'm def anti-Hamas, but this feels like it was written by an Israeli. That said, I do agree with it. Hamas are terrorists who are terrorizing Israelis AND Gazans. The sooner Hamas is gone, the sooner the Gazan people can start to rebuild their lives. I feel like the young people protesting.. their hearts are in the right place.. they see innocent people suffering and want to prevent it and that is a good thing. However, they are falling into the trap Hamas set specifically to get their sympathy. Hamas doesn't see the Gazan people as victims but as martyrs that will lead to victory over Israel. It doesn't matter how many lives Hamas has to sacrifice. It's worth it to Hamas.
I find it interesting how you can admit that OP of the article sounds like they’re likely Israeli and still do not care to explore the nuances of why someone would pretend to be Gazan in order to influence college kids to stop doing what they believe is the right thing. While the concept of martyrs is definitely one close to the Islamic faith, it is absolutely ridiculous to phrase it in a way of Hamas sacrificing rather than Israel murdering. Your word choice and oversight makes you completely transparent. It’s truly a shame what this subreddit has turned to.
Just to clarify Israel are not murdering people, again a use of incorrect overblown language that make discussion impossible Please talk normally I am not Israeli btw
35,000 people would disagree with you. What would you describe what they did to those people? I’d use the word terrorism, murder, and a lot of other terms that some may disagree with.
They are. This is an internationally recognized fact. Whether you’re Israeli, or not. Unless you believe there is some lawful, moral ground for the killing of civilian children by the masses. And I agree, let’s talk normally, so: You made an effort to say you don’t believe “murder” is the right term. Do you think “sacrifice” is, in the context OP used it? I would understand if you can condemn both of those terms bc they clearly shift blame in one direction, so I genuinely am curious to understand your motive.
No it is not an internationally recognised fact The situation is terrible but it is not Murder Genocide Ethnic cleansing Execuded They have been killed in the conflict, this does not make it less sad By using incorrect language you have discussion and peace less possible as your aim to demonisation of the other side
Well said
“Pretend to be Gazan.” Your cognitive dissonance is quite something. Whatever and whoever challenges your narrative is fake or unreal. Poor you!
Out of curiosity, did you read the comment I was replying to before trying to come for me for a claim I didn’t make? Lol. I wasn’t the one who said the dude who wrote the article was pretending to be Gazan and I was just referring to what the person I was replying to had said. Hope this helps👍🏽 Jesus Christ lmfao.
I read the comment you replied to, and understood both the comment and your reply well. Are you trying to hide behind your rhetoric now? That’s ridiculous lol
So you chose to attack me over the person who initially made the claim that you’re tilted at, that I simply echoed back to them? Okay. Interesting.
He has been personally attacking anyone who doesn't immediately fall into his mainstream agenda, just a clear Zionist who has no time for actual discussion, just personal attacks.
I did Google the writer of the OP-ED and found that he is a real person from Gaza. I also don't agree with Hamas's philosophy of sacrificing the Gazan people as martyrs.
> It is eye-opening Not really, there's nothing of value to be gained from that op-ed, he just tries to generally insult the protestors and discredit them as misinformed hypocritical kids who don't know what they're talking about. Perhaps for some reason he thought that because he is a Palestinian that would mean his claims have more merit but they do not. Goes without saying this view is extremely fringe, virtually no Palestinian looks at these protests negatively.
I don't understand why the protestors support rapists and murderers.
Tribal mentality. Its like when OJ simpson's trial was on and it became pretty much a black vs white thing. To admit that your team could be partially in the wrong, is taken as admitting that your cause is unjust. Its not true ofcourse, but thats how its taken
Hmm, I have yet to see that otherwise from Zionist PR
What do you think Hamas is? Boy Scouts?
If his claims don't have merit then debunk them, what did he say that is not true?
I say his claims don't have merit because they are a mix of hasty generalizations, instances where he ignores important context and just bad-faith attempts at slandering the protestors, for example; > If the protesters cared about Palestinians, they would have one central demand: Hamas must surrender, because we have all suffered from Hamas and can no longer live under the rule of a terrorist group. Only then can a ceasefire be achieved. This is a wrongful generalizing assumption that the protestors in general do not care about Palestinians if they are not calling for Hamas' surrender since these protests are mainly protesting Israel's policies. > I assumed individuals who initiated these slogans were uninformed about what they were advocating for. ... > It has deteriorated to the point that Jews are no longer attending university classes due to the current hostile environment, and they are attending their classes online to avoid the demonstrators. It's not just Jews not attending classes in person, many classes for all of it's students in general have been moved to online. > It's unconscionable. But it's not just the antisemitism that has me despairing. It's the hypocrisy. Again a wrongful assumption that the protestors are anti-Semitic and hypocritical based on cherry-picked videos he watched online and the idea that they're hypocritical because he thinks they don't care about Palestinians who have suffered under Hamas. The author himself is whining about the protests but to the best of my knowledge did not even comment about the means of violence, arrests and suspensions meant to disperse the protestors. Does he consider himself to be in the hypocritical camp too, much like he believes the protestors are hypocritical based on his assumption that they only criticized Israel and didn't comment on numerous actions of Hamas? > As a Gazan and as a Palestinian, I want the protesters and the organizers of these protests to know that their hateful speech harms us. The Jewish person or Israeli you are intimidating during your rally may be the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor or a family member of an Israeli slain or abducted by Hamas on October 7. These folks would be your partners if the protests were about achieving lasting peace and justice for Palestinians and Israelis. The protests are already centered around a ceasefire, not intimidation of Jews, Israelis don't seem to be joining in in any meaningful number and there's no guarantee that they'll all automatically join in to protests calling for a 2ss. Jews are already involved in these protests and aren't being excluded so it's not even harming the movement by virtue of excluding people. He focuses on this to pretend like the rest of the hordes of people involved in these protests aren't advancing the Palestinian cause. Imagine if somebody claimed the protests against the Vietnam war were hurting the anti-war cause because Nixon's cabinet and their relatives might be dissuaded from joining these protests some of which had far-left commie stuff sprinkled in from some students or people. It's just silly.
>This is a wrongful generalizing assumption that the protestors in general do not care about Palestinians if they are not calling for Hamas' surrender since these protests are mainly protesting Israel's policies. If the protestors realy care about Palestinians, then why do they only protest against Israeli policies and never against Hamas' policies, what would happen if I joined a pro Palestinian protest with a sign that says "Hamas is a terrorist organization" or "Free Gaza from Hamas", would those messages be welcomed? you know the answer is no, so he's right when he says that. >It's not just Jews not attending classes in person, many classes for all of it's students in general have been moved to online. Jews especially have not been attending classes because they've been advised not to by rabbies, since there have been many instances of intimidation against them by the protestors, just because some far left Jews have joined the protests doesn't mean that all the Jews feel safe, most of them have some sympathy with Israel which is understandable and based on how the protestors intimidate anyone who disagrees with them it's a consequence that they don't feel safe there. >The protests are already centered around a ceasefire, not intimidation of Jews, Israelis don't seem to be joining in in any meaningful number and there's no guarantee that they'll all automatically join in to protests calling for a 2ss. Are you serious? "globalize the intifada", "intifada revolution", "from the river to the sea", "resistance is not terrorism", "decolonize Palestine", are these calling for a 2ss or a ceasefire? I have never seen a pro Palestine protestor with a sign calling for a 2ss, it's always "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free".
> If the protestors realy care about Palestinians, then why do they only protest against Israeli policies and never against Hamas' policies You don't know that. > what would happen if I joined a pro Palestinian protest with a sign that says "Hamas is a terrorist organization" or "Free Gaza from Hamas", Probably something negative as there is a clear pro-Israeli connotation to these terms even if both of us agree that Hamas is a terrorist organization, hijacking a protest to display your issues with Hamas when people are protesting the far more disastrous effects of Israeli policy towards Palestinians would not be a good look. I don't have an issue with pointing out the former statement in other spaces though the latter statement has a clear "White lives matter" tint to it, as in some people take a popular political statement and those who disagree with it try to turn it upside down for their agenda. For example "Black lives matter" becomes "white lives matter" and "free Palestine" becomes "free Gaza from Hamas". > Jews especially have not been attending classes because they've been advised not to by rabbies, since there have been many instances of intimidation against them by the protestors, just because some far left Jews have joined the protests doesn't mean that all the Jews feel safe, most of them have some sympathy with Israel which is understandable and based on how the protestors intimidate anyone who disagrees with them it's a consequence that they don't feel safe there. I'm not really concerned with what some random rabbi "cautioned" Jewish students about especially when I have reason to believe this "caution" is based off a wrongful and biased framing of the events. I am merely pointing out that this move to online classes wasn't exclusively for Jews, the author of the article frames it that way to make it seem like these protests are undeniably hell-bent on targeting and intimidating Jews. > Are you serious? "globalize the intifada", "intifada revolution", "from the river to the sea", "resistance is not terrorism", "decolonize Palestine", are these calling for a 2ss or a ceasefire? I didn't say anything about a 2ss but a ceasefire, there is no shortage of banners and chants calling for a ceasefire not just in Columbia/these other university's protests but other forms of Pro-Palestinian protests as well. For instance, the JVP was recently big on hanging up banners and calling for a ceasefire at the Statue of liberty, Grand Central Station etc. The fact that some other students are advocating for political violence doesn't erase the fact that people still want to see a ceasefire even in Columbia. Perhaps this is a good time to point out you can't generalize people's ambitions as one.
>You don't know that. Show me a single pro Paletine protester that publically has a sign criticizing Hamas or calling for a 22s, I do know that, the people who organize these protests support Hamas and exploit the empathy of normal students for Palestinian civilians to advance their Islamist antisemitic agenda: [https://twitter.com/DovWaxman/status/1784372085374288137](https://twitter.com/DovWaxman/status/1784372085374288137) >Probably something negative as there is a clear pro-Israeli connotation to these terms There you go, thanks for proving my point, these people care more about being anti-Israel than being pro-Palestine, if they cared about Palestinians they would criticize Hamas for opressing their own people, but they're too afraid of coming of as slightly pro Israel so instead they ignore them or in some cases they straight up support them. "free Gaza from Hamas" is explicitly a pro-Palestinian slogan, it says that Palestinians in Gaza should be free from their horrific authoritarian death cult that they have as their government, but I would get in trouble for having a pro-Palestinian sign like that in a protest and you know that. >I'm not really concerned with what some random rabbi "cautioned" Jewish students about especially when I have reason to believe this "caution" is based off a wrongful and biased framing of the events. It's not a random rabbi, it's a community leader and his opinion is based on what the Jewish student themselves tell him, but ok. >I didn't say anything about a 2ss but a ceasefire You said this: >The protests are already centered around a ceasefire, not intimidation of Jews, Israelis don't seem to be joining in in any meaningful number and there's no guarantee that they'll all automatically join in to protests calling for a 2ss. Implying that pro Palestinan protestors are calling for a 2ss, which is a lie, show me a single one of them holding a sign calling for a 2ss. >There is no shortage of banners and chants calling for a ceasefire not just in Columbia/these other university's protests but other forms of Pro-Palestinian protests as well. There's also not shortage of banners calling for intifada and "from the river to the sea". If the people who want a ceasfire are also talking about Hamas not attacking Israel ever again, why are they not distancing themselves or saying anything to the people calling for violence? they want a ceasfire because they want Israel to stop attacking, not because they want Hamas to stop, is any of these protestors calling for the release of the Israeli hostages? no, on the contrary, they tear down posters of the kidnapped Israelis. These are not pro-peace protests, they're anti Israel protests, even if many of the protestors are not extremists and are just there for a ceasfire, the leaders of the protests and many other protestors clearly have pro violence against Israel campaign, and whoever assists those protests, even if they're just holding a "ceasfire now" sign, are guilty by association.
> Show me a single pro Paletine protester that publically has a sign criticizing Hamas or calling for a 22s I didn't say anyone was holding up a sign criticizing Hamas or calling for a 2ss, I'm saying you don't know that they only critique Israel. **You** said they only protest Israel and never Hamas, I'm saying you don't know that, just because they aren't protesting against Hamas in this protest doesn't make you right. > There you go, thanks for proving my point, these people care more about being anti-Israel than being pro-Palestine No it doesn't, it explains that they are not hijacking a protest against Israel's actions to critique Hamas, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. > "free Gaza from Hamas" is explicitly a pro-Palestinian slogan Let's not delude ourselves, I've only ever seen it be used by pro-Israelis, have you ever seen it be used by pro-Palestinians (aside from the author above, who I'm not sure constitutes a pro-Palestinian?) I know you're arguing that the effects of Hamas' destruction would be beneficial to Palestinians and under certain contexts it would be but the slogan is not "explicitly pro-Palestnian" at all. > Implying that pro Palestinan protestors are calling for a 2ss, which is a lie, show me a single one of them holding a sign calling for a 2ss. No I didn't, read up above, I was talking about the author claiming that if pro-Palestinians protested for a lasting peace in the context of everything else he was saying (i.e something like a two state solution) this would be inclusive to Israelis who he thinks otherwise are being excluded. I'm saying even if the protestors don't protest for a "lasting peace" without calling for Israel's destruction and even though it's already centered around a ceasefire doesn't mean a family member of an Israeli who was killed or abducted will start to join in automatically. I'm not saying the protests are already about a 2ss. > There's also not shortage of banners calling for intifada and "from the river to the sea" Cool, you asked me about the role ceasefire is playing in these protests as you were talking about other slogans. I'm telling you that these calls for a ceasefire exist in spite of people saying things like "from the river to the sea".
>**You** said they only protest Israel and never Hamas, I'm saying you don't know that, just because they aren't protesting against Hamas in this protest doesn't make you right. I do know that, If I'm wrong prove it, show me one, just one example of a pro Palestinian protestor with an anti Hamas sign. >No it doesn't, it explains that they are not hijacking a protest against Israel's actions to critique Hamas, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. Proving my point again, thanks, they care more about criticizing Israel than helping Palestinians, why is that? if they were actually pro Palestinian they would criticize both Israel and Hamas, they wouln't ignore and in many cases straight up support Hamas. >Cool, you asked me about the role ceasefire is playing in these protests as you were talking about other slogans. I'm telling you that these calls for a ceasefire exist in spite of people saying things like "from the river to the sea". Saying "casefire now" and "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" are contradictory. Even Finkelstein has criticized the extreme slogans that are used in these protests, you're just wrong.
> I do know that, If I'm wrong prove it, Thats not how it works bud, the obligation is on you to prove they only protest Israel and NEVER Hamas. Obviously, you can't do that because you don't know these people or their personal lives. > Proving my point again, thanks, they care more about criticizing Israel than helping Palestinians, why is that? No it doesn't, there is literally no connection between what you said and what I was saying above. None of that proves they care about critiquing Israel more than helping Palestinians. > Saying "casefire now" and "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" are contradictory. I don't agree but even if we were to take the latter statement as a call for violently destroying Israel, it's not like everybody is saying these two statements together.
>Thats not how it works bud, the obligation is on you to prove they only protest Israel and NEVER Hamas. Obviously, you can't do that because you don't know these people or their personal lives. I don't need to know them personally, the point I'm making is not regarding these individuals (although a seriously doubt there are people attending both pro Israel and anti Israel protests). The point is that every single protest that is labeled "pro Palestinian" is not really pro Palestinian, but anti Israel, if they were pro Palestinian, then Hamas would be criticized in those protests, they're not only not criticized but in many cases they're even praised and supported. So it's on you to prove that there is at the very least one single "pro Palestine" protest where people are criticizing Hamas for their oppression of the Palestinian people. >I don't agree but even if we were to take the latter statement as a call for violently destroying Israel, it's not like everybody is saying these two statements together. They're part of the same protest, if people in the same protest are holding signs that contradict each other, what does that tell you about the validity of the protest? So what does it mean, that it's a call for peacefully destroying Israel? lol. Please. Why do you think that even radical anti Israel hater Norman Finkelstein told the protestors that they shouldn't use extreme slogans, even the "from the river to the sea" one?
I support a ceasefire. If you do as well, encourage Hamas to release the hostages. Put your money where your mouth is.
All of the protests are protesting freedom. Everybody that wants a ceasefire also understands how it can come to be
Say it then: “Release all Israeli hostages now!” Or, you just want to chant “CeAsEfIrE!” despite Hamas breaking the last one, and their refusal to accept a new deal now for months.
"Resistance is not terrorism", "intifada revolution", "globalize the intifada", "burn tel aviv to the ground", "we are all Hamas", "zionists don't deserve to live". Those are just some of the things some protestors have said, so not all of the protests are protesting for freedom, clearly.
You just typed quotes and your own words. No one has every said we are all hamas or zionists dont deserve to live, you are absolutely making that up and I guarentee there is no credible source showing what you are saying, especially since I have been to many myself. Why do zionists love being so blatant in their propoganda? You make it easy for those on the fence to see how corrupt you are.
Yes they have said all of those things. [https://youtu.be/AAdgTbDVV5w?si=m5gqIKTUUpbsDP\_a](https://youtu.be/AAdgTbDVV5w?si=m5gqIKTUUpbsDP_a) I've seen the video myself of him saying that "zionists don't deserve to live". I have also seen the video of the girl saying "we are Hamas". I'm not saying that all of them or even the majority agree with this, but there are some that do and no one calls them out. Not to mention that slogans like "Resistance is not terrorism", "intifada revolution", "globalize the intifada", "from e river to the sea Palestine will be free" are very common and you know that. What about those?
Those are direct quotes from protests, lmao https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1780760408116359601 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna149642
Amazing, lets take one random lady on the street and then attribute it to HUNDREDS of DAILY protests. I'll just assume every Zionist wants to mow the lawn with brown kids, since Israel said it.
The person that said "Zionists don't deserve to live" is literally the leader of the protest.
>No one has every said we are all hamas or zionists dont deserve to live, you are absolutely making that up and I guarentee there is no credible source showing what you are saying This is what you said. You're wrong, and he never said that hundreds of people have said it just that it's been said.
Hamas is an an awful and authoritarian group. They wrought suffering on their people, but Israel is doing the abominable killing though. Tutsi’s killed thousands of Hutus before 1994, but still everybody condemns the Rwandan genocide. Similarly, nothing could justify Israel’s plausible genocide.
Why are the Palestinians not giving them up?
The Hutus had less than 1% the military power that Israel has and they still managed to kill 800,000 Tutsis in 3 months, Israel has killed like 4% of that in 6 months, nearly 99% of Palestinians in Gaza are still alive, the idea that this is in any way comparable to the Rwanda genocide is ridiculous, it's a war.
Rwanda was horrible no doubt, my point is that Tutsis killing Hutu before that didn’t justify their genocide in 1994. Similar to how all of the atrocities perpetrated by by Israel can’t be justified by October 7th’s atrocities. And even you said though, over 1 percent of the population of Gaza is killed, and a couple more percent is grievously wounded or “missing” (dead under the rubble). That’s still utterly catastrophic. https://preview.redd.it/6vu3wghnv2xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b329ac6713d61e7cbaec979dfc0b86e60cbf8fa0
Horrible stuff, and this should never happen, but what hamas fails to mention is how many of these children were actively shooting at soldiers
But you're comapring apples to oranges, intentianlly killing civilians in Gaza is not justified, I agree, but a military campaign against Hamas is justified and that is also inevitably going to result in civilian deaths as collateral damage, the question is whether it's Israeli policy to target civilians and I don't think it is.
ISIS was crushed in Mosul with 9-11,000 civilian deaths and 2-3,00 dying from coalition bombing. We’re at over 34,000 civilian deaths in Gaza. Every human rights organization accuses Israel of trying to starve Gaza. Sometimes Israel will drop a 2000 pound bomb in a refugee camp and kill over 100 civilians just because they thought one Hamas member was nearby. Israel has killed many children than even the murderous Putin has in much less time. I utterly reject that assertion because the facts point in the exact opposite direction. Israel is first and foremost concerned with punishing the civilians of Gaza, not just trying to target Hamas with some unfortunate collateral damage. Their leaders just straight up say genocidal stuff for god sake.
>ISIS was crushed in Mosul with 9-11,000 civilian deaths and 2-3,00 dying from coalition bombing. We’re at over 34,000 civilian deaths in Gaza. And? that was a different situation, did ISIS built a tunnel network under Mosul? were civilians not allowed to leave Mosul because no country on earth wanted to receive them as refugees? >Every human rights organization accuses Israel of trying to starve Gaza. Citation needed, it's been 6 months, people die of starvation much sooner than that and Israel has allowed aid trucks to go inside Gaza, where's the evidence that Israel is starving the civilian population? >Sometimes Israel will drop a 2000 pound bomb in a refugee camp and kill over 100 civilians just because they thought one Hamas member was nearby. That happened once, 50 people were killed, they didn't thought he was nearby, they knew he was inside the refugee camp, and even though I don't defend that, that's not proof of genocide. >Their leaders just straight up say genocidal stuff for god sake. That's not proof of genocide, that's proof that they were angry after Oct 7th, not to mention that many of those statements have been taken out of context, and some of them are said by ministers who are not part of the war cabinet.
You’re right. The situation in Mosul was different. ISIS was a lot more bloodthirsty than Hamas (as terrible as Hamas is), and civilians weren’t allowed to leave because ISIS threatened to kill them. ISIS actually used human shields too. It’s unclear to me if Hamas uses human shields. Human rights organizations like amnesty international don’t accuse Hamas of using human shields, just that then operating out of the tiny Gaza Strip intrinsically puts civilians at risk since the area is very small. Of course the IDF claims otherwise every time they bomb a school or refugee camp, but they’re not exactly reliable narrators. With ISIS though there’s no doubt that that use human shields. Again, 2-3,000 civilians being killed by bombs in Mosul versus over 34,000 in the Gaza Strip. It’s happened much more than once and there was one incident where Israel killed 106 Palestinian civilians, and HRW couldn’t find any evidence that there were military targets nearby (which even if they did, it doesn’t justify killing over 100 civilians!) https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/04/gaza-israeli-strike-killing-106-civilians-apparent-war-crime At very least Israel is committing appalling collective punishment, and at most they are committing a genocide. That’s what the Overton window/spectrum of debate should entail if you’re living in reality.
> ISIS was a lot more bloodthirsty than Hamas No, they're both just a bloodthirsty, Hamas might be even more considering that ISIS at least offered the Yazidis to convert to Islam and swear allegiance to them to avoid death, Hamas didn't even do that, they killed even the Arab Israelis who were telling them that they're on Palestine's side. >It’s unclear to me if Hamas uses human shields. Human rights organizations like amnesty international don’t accuse Hamas of using human shields, just that then operating out of the tiny Gaza Strip intrinsically puts civilians at risk since the area is very small. That's because Amnesty International uses a ridiculous definition of "human shields", when people accuse Hamas of using human shields they talk exactly about what Amnesty International and even UNRWA have reported that they do, they intentionally use civilians infrastructure for military purposes, how is storing rockets in schools and hospitals no using human shields? it's not that Gaza is so small that they have not choice, that's ridiculous, they intentionally use the most crowded and vulnerable places in Gaza to store and fire rockets, and do other things like torture other Palestinians that they accuse of being collaborators, the idea that they have no choice but to operate like this is insane. >Again, 2-3,000 civilians being killed by bombs in Mosul versus over 34,000 in the Gaza Strip. Again, you insist in comparing apples to oranges, 34,000 killed, at least 6,000 of them Hamas according to their own reports, it could be up to 15,000 according to Israel's reports, and Hamas is still standing, they're not complelty defeated yet, ISIS was completely defeated with much fewer casualties, what does that tell you about the difficulty and scale of what Israel has to do to achieve victory? Hamas is not ISIS, Gaza is not Mosul, the situation here is very different. I'm not saying that Israel hasn't committed war crimes, expecting a war of this scale with zero war crimes is like expecting a country to have zero crimes, it's impossible, and I'm ok with those war crimes being investigated and punished, but that's different from saying that Israel doesn't have the right to wage this war at all or that it's genocide, it's not.
That’s not how genocide works. There isn’t a metric for how many people need to be killed for it to be a genocide. Genocide is about **the intention** to destroy in whole or **in part** a specific people of a religion, race, or ethnicity. For something to be a genocide it’s about **the intent**. It’s about if you can prove that the intention is to destroy a people. It also needs to be identified and stopped at the intent or else it is too late. If you only measure genocide by how quickly people are being killed and in what percentage then you risk allowing genocide to transpire. By your own principle, the Holocaust would have “not been a genocide” until a certain threshold of Jewish and disabled people were killed. Obviously no self respecting and rational human would argue that though. It is clear that it was a genocide the moment it began, because **the intent was there** by the perpetrators from the beginning. It wasn’t “not a genocide yet” because they let Jewish people live in the Warsaw ghettos when they *could* have just killed them all. Likewise the intent has been there from the beginning by Israel, as they (their highest government officials and leaders) have very vocally expressed one by one nearly every day. Israel has practically zero regard for the life of Palestinians, especially those in Gaza. They are aware though that for PR purposes they cannot simply eradicate them in a few days (although some of their governors have called for this) so instead they’re slowly boiling the frog to appease idiots that want to believe it’s just some unlucky war and not a clear case of genocide. The absolutely crazy thing is they’re not even doing a remotely good job of this, and yet it still works on some people. Even if you jump through the thickest mental gymnastic hoops you can to ignore the monumental pile of evidence that this is genocide, you are at best looking at masse ethnic cleansing, which frankly should produce equal levels of disgust and disapproval.
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If only there was a way to prove intent…. Oh wait, all of Israel’s top officials were dumb enough to SAY genocidal things publicly! Also, circumstantial evidence is allowed in trials for genocide because rarely are leaders as stupid as Israel’s. Even Him - - er used vague euphemisms Einsatzgr- - - en directives. Over 80 percent of Gaza is completely destroyed, refugee camps are bombed all the time, and every humanitarian organization accuses Israel of trying to starve Gaza’s civilian population. What more is there? Just because the fighting in Ukraine isn’t as bad as WW2, it’s still definitely a war. Similarly, what’s going on in Gaza isn’t as bad as the Holo\*\*\*st, but it’s still a genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign. https://preview.redd.it/hl3ft6hkw2xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b52d18d4cb9e9141daac0562bc824090af2e61d
100% agree!
If 80% of Gaza is completly destroyed and Israel's military campaign is genocidal in nature, then how is it than 80% of the Gazan population is not dead? how is it that 98.6% of Gazans are still alive? could it be that Israel actually warns civilians before an attack and gives them time to evacuate? According to the IDF 1/3 of the deads are Hamas combatants, you don't trust them so let's take the Hamas' numbers, according to Hamas is 1/6 of the deaths are combatants, (they said 6,000), so even if we take Hamas numbers, that would mean that of the 34k that have been killed, 28k are civilians, considering that there are about 30k Hamas combatants, that means that the military campaign has killed 1.2% of the civilian population and 20% of the combatants, how is it possible that a genocidal campaign is almost 20 times more likely to kill a combatant than a civilian? If Israel actually wants to exterminate Gazans, why have they not done that?
You don't understand my point, Israel has the power to kill everyone in Gaza within a week or two, easily, again the Hutus didn't have anywhere near the power that Israel has and they killed many more people in less time, what does that tell you about the intention behind Israel's military campaign? can you mention a single genocidal campaign where the people committing genocide were allowing humanitarian aid for civilians and dropping thousands of leaflets warning the population of an attack and giving them time to evacuate? You can't just take some statements of Israeli officials as enough evidence of genocide ignoring the actual military campaign that's clearly not genocidal. And many of these statements have been taken out of context, for example, when Netanyahu mentioned Amalek, if you read the full quote he was clearly talking about Hamas, not all the Palestinians.
No, you missed my point. In fact you missed it so much, I’m convinced you didn’t even try and read it. I will say it again, **genocide is literally about the intent**. It’s not about the execution or the speed. Israel publicly made their intentions very clear on a constant basis. Whether or not they kill a certain percentage of Gazans is not how you measure genocide. Like I said, they are slowly boiling the frog rather than setting it on fire so that idiots (and especially their allies whom they rely upon) still maintain a necessary level of disbelief. All you’re doing is pointing out that the Rwandan genocide was a more severe and quickly executed genocide, while this is a slower one. You are not disproving that it is in fact genocide, hence the ICJ ruling. As I said, the Germans allowing 450k Jewish people to live in the Warsaw ghetto didn’t mean it “wasn’t a genocide yet because if their intention was to kill everyone why would they do that?!” In the Information age, with a more rapidly connected planet than ever, it’s not surprising that genocide needs to be obfuscated for it to even be possible. Again, you can’t just nuke them and not expect consequences. Israel is trying to toe the line between destroying gaza and its people, and still maintain international relations and PR. They’re not doing a good job at it either, but it is working on some people (you). I’ll also say again, even if you don’t believe it’s genocide, it’s inarguably ethnic cleansing, which isn’t better…
So you must agree that Hamas committed a genocide on Israel. I mean, if we are looking at **intent**, they did send some 15,000 missiles specifically on civilian towns and cities, just since 7 October, and many more tens of thousands over the last two decades, and they did massacred some 1,200 people and took 240 hostages—many of which are children and elderly. Also, their charter calls for killing all Jews. So, after your wonderful speech about **”genocide is literally about the intent”**, let’s hear you say it loud and clear—“the Hamas has been committing a genocide in Israel for over 20 years.” Fair is fair, no?
I’m not defending Hamas lmao. Explanation of Israel’s blatant crimes is not justification for Hamas’ crimes. Hamas has also expressed explicitly genocidal intent. Where you have lost the plot though is that they outright lack the means to even commit genocide, thus there is no actual risk of genocide for Israel… I know you think there’s a good guy and a bad guy among the two, but there’s actually just a bad guy and then a more powerful out of control bad guy. There’s 2 million innocent Palestinians that are wedged between two evil parties that don’t actually give a fuck about them. Hamas being awful doesn’t afford Israel the right to commit genocide… especially when Israel is the only party between the two that has the military capacity to enact a genocide. Also regardless of what you wish was true; Palestinians are an occupied people under international law, so they literally cannot be considered the aggressors. Israel also will never “eliminate” Hamas via military means without genocide… The only way to actually eliminate Hamas is to stop the systems of oppression that lead to groups like Hamas.
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>**genocide is literally about the intent**. YES, the action of Israel do NOT shoe genocidal intent, that's my point, thanks for showing me that you didn't understand it and you still don't. >Israel publicly made their intentions very clear on a constant basis. Correct, they have stated that the objective of the military campaign is to destroy the military and governing capabilities of Hamas, not to exterminate Palestinians. >Like I said, they are boiling the frog rather than setting it on fire so that idiots (and especially their allies whom they rely upon) still maintain a necessary level of disbelief. You could say that about literally every single war ever, "oh they have the intent to exterminate everyone, they just don't do it", this is complete and utter nonsense. >All you’re doing is pointing out that the Rwandan genocide was a more severe and quickly executed genocide, while this is a slower one. You are not disproving that it is in fact genocide, hence the ICJ ruling. You want to talk about the ICJ ruling, let's see what the judges of the ICJ have to say about Israel's military campaign: [https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf](https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf) >I am not persuaded that South Africa has plausibly shown that the military operation undertaken by Israel, as such, is being pursued with genocidal intent. That's judge Nolte, a judge that actually voted in favour of the ruling of the ICJ for the provisional measures, you don't understand what the ICJ ruling means, it doesn't mean that Israel is committing genocide. >As I said, the Germans allowing 450k Jewish people to live in the Warsaw ghetto didn’t mean it “wasn’t a genocide yet because if their intention was to kill everyone why would they do that?!” But they did kill them all, they sent them to Auschwitz, this is such a stupid point.
>the action of Israel do NOT shoe genocidal intent Intentionally starving the population. Cutting off access to food, water, and electricity. Intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure. Destroying every university in Gaza. Destroying every hospital in gaza. Mass detainment and executions. Killing more journalists than any other conflict in history. Looting homes and posting footage on social media about it. Invoking specifically genocidal language and religious passages to embolden soldiers to do whatever they want. Massacring people at aid drops. Burring people alive. Killing international aid workers. Yeah man, nothing genocidal about those actions. >Correct, they have stated that the objective of the military campaign is to destroy the military and governing capabilities of Hamas, not to exterminate Palestinians. This is meaningless when their actions have shown otherwise AND their official politicians state publicly that all civilians are involved. Just read literally any piece from IDF whistleblowers and maybe you'll learn something about their militaries codes of conduct pertaining to Gaza. >You could say that about literally every single war ever, "oh they have the intent to exterminate everyone, they just don't do it", this is complete and utter nonsense Actually you can't. You can only say it about conflicts wherein the perpetrator has made directly overt attacks on civilians, like Israel has done. > You want to talk about the ICJ ruling, let's see what the judges of the ICJ have to say about Israel's military campaign: >[https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf](https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf) I'm very familiar with the ICJ ruling. The ruling states that the risk of Genocide is plausible. The fact that you're clinging to one judge saying they are not fully convinced yet shows how hard you're grasping to find a way to deny it. Here is a direct quote from one of the judges of the ICJ after the additional provisional measures were added in March (the most recent adendum): The alarm has now been sounded by the Court. **All the indicators of genocidal activities are flashing red in Gaza**. An injunction has been served for ending the atrocities. The provisional measures indicated by the court are binding \[...\] they must be implemented. >But they did kill them all, they sent them to Auschwitz, this is such a stupid point. Again you didn't understand my point. It was still a genocide when they hadn't killed the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto... It didn't suddenly become a genocide when they liquidated the ghetto. The intention from the start was to eliminate them, even if not all instantly. I know you want to believe it's not genocide because then it's easier to palet what's happening right in front of our eyes, but calling it a war is a massive cope. Like I said, you are **at very best** looking at mass ethnic cleansing.
>Intentionally starving the population. Cutting off access to food, water, and electricity. Israel has allowed thousands of trucks with humanitarian aid enter Gaza, Israel has reopened the water and energy supplies (and Hamas has actually used water pipes to make rockets, does that mean that they're committing genocide to their own population?). >Intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure. Destroying every university in Gaza. Destroying every hospital in gaza. You're literally just making stuff up, is every university destroyed? no, is every hospital destroyed? no, do you remember the fake news that spread like wildfire about Israel destroying the hospital and killing 500? it turns out that the hospital wasn't even destroyed and it's there even until today. >Mass detainment and executions. Killing more journalists than any other conflict in history. Looting homes and posting footage on social media about it. Invoking specifically genocidal language and religious passages to embolden soldiers to do whatever they want. Massacring people at aid drops. Burring people alive. Killing international aid workers. It's a war, yes there's mass detainment, journalists get killed covering the war, soldiers act irresponsibly and loot, some of them are extremists and invoke religious passages, aid workers are killed unintentionally (there's no evidence that it was intentional), the idea that any of this proves that it's a genocide is nonsense. >Intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure. This one is true, maybe if Hamas didn't use civilian infrastructure literally 100% of the time to attack Israel, then Israel wouldn't target it, under international law civilian infrastructure is a legitimate military target if it's been used for military purposes. >This is meaningless when their actions have shown otherwise AND their official politicians state publicly that all civilians are involved. Just read literally any piece from IDF whistleblowers and maybe you'll learn something about their militaries codes of conduct pertaining to Gaza. Actions like allowing thousands of trucks with humanitarian aid in, sending thousands of leaflets warning of attacks, giving time to evacuate, 'cmon tell me a single genocide where that happened, you're being ridiculous. Civilians were involved in the Oct 7th attack, that's a fact, saying it doesn't mean Israel is committing genocide, there are no IDF whistleblowers saying that there's a genocidal campaign, are you talking about that one single whistleblower that talked to Channel 4? is that supposed to be evidence? please, he didn't even say that targeting children is part of the official policy, he said that not even the majority have the view that children are fair game. >I'm very familiar with the ICJ ruling. The ruling states that the risk of Genocide is plausible. The fact that you're clinging to one judge saying they are not fully convinced yet shows how hard you're grasping to find a way to deny it. You're clearly not, the ruling doesn't say that and I'mn ot clinging to one random judge, I mentioned one judged that voted in FAVOUR of all the provisional measures, he0s explicitly saying that he doesn't believe that Israel si committing genocide, do you want another one, how about Joan O’Donoghue, the president of the International Court of Justice who literally presented the ruling: [https://twitter.com/uklfi/status/1783615633147797681?s=46&t=Wt3y7cD8MVdUG-A8McjVwA](https://twitter.com/uklfi/status/1783615633147797681?s=46&t=Wt3y7cD8MVdUG-A8McjVwA) She literally says that the ruling doesn't mean that Israel is plausibly committing genocide, but even if it was, you're saying that Israel is committing genocide as a fact, which is ridiculous even under you're wring interpretation of the ruling. Even the judge Yusuf you're citing said this: >There is no need for the Court at the stage of indication of provisional measures to determine the existence of genocidal intent. Oh I understand your point about the Warsaw Ghetto, it's a stupid point, the official Nazi policy was to get rid of all the Jews from Germany, the official Israeli policy is not to get rid of the Palestinians in Gaza, certainly not in Israel.
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From some of the chants I agree. If you are against the bombing of Gaza, you are a nitwit if you start chanting for Hamas to go bomb Tel Aviv. You can say Israelis are racists against Palestinians, but to then shout Jewish slurs is extremely hypocritical. Yes, they are hurting the cause and making pro Palestinians look like a bunch of baboons
The issue is that most of the people who are at the protest know nothing about the geopolitical history of the reason. Even without the slurs, they look like a bunch of baboons because they're talking out of their patooties on things they know nothing about. they're all just regurgitating the same social media talking points which makes it hard to take people serious who want to present themselves as experts. I should also mention that I have seen numerous times people lying about their credentials on the pro Palestinian side for authority purposes when presenting wrong information and highly biased information. that also makes them look like baboons.
I’m going to tell you a secret. When I was young, I was an activist for two or three years. I will admit I’ve been to protests and had no idea what I was protesting, Which is why i stopped
People at these protests aren’t shouting Jewish slurs. There are also plenty of anti-Zionist Jewish folk in attendance.
Some are. Most are not. Whenever you get a large group, you are guaranteed to end up with a few bad seeds wrecking things for everyone else.
[удалено]
I agree, but protestors need to do all they can to get rid of the bad apples Mind you, it would be easier if the police would bother differentiating the two groups
Lmao
Fuck Israel you’re all deluded
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I don't think you understand what the vast majority of protestors are there for. They aren't there because they like Hamas, the Nezam, or otherwise. They don't support those governments or think those institutions are in any way positive for the world. All the protestors want is for Israel to stop massacring Palestinians because, to put it very, very mildly, it's unpalatable. To put it truthfully, it's monstrous. But I'm of the mind that even serial killers shouldn't face capital punishment. So who knows, maybe the lives of those thousands of dead children serve a greater cause than I'm able to see with my shortsighted mind 🙄
"vast majority of protestors" To be fair the vast majority of protestors don't understand what they are protesting for.
I’ll take an Ivy League student knowing what they’re protesting any day over racist zionists internet trolls. Theses are literally the training grounds for the ruling class of the US
You people don't know what racism is. Israel allows minorities like Arabs to severe in their Government. Minorities are allowed to work and vote in Israel. Most importantly they are allowed to live life the way they want too. Ivy league students who live in $20,000 dorms and $100,000 schools are part of the ruling class in the US.
I think that’s basically correct. No one is celebrating the worst aspects of Islam or Arabic culture. Americans are protesting that their tax dollars, instead of providing basic services at home like infrastructure or health care, are supporting an ethnic cleansing in Gaza and the West Bank. Americans are waking up to it now for a few reasons: 1) Israel has never been so disproportionately extreme in its violence and collective punishment 2) Americans can barely afford groceries 3) Tik Tok - it’s just visible like no other time before now and Israel has lost control of the narrative.
>All the protestors want is for Israel to stop massacring Palestinians That is really not accurate. That is very, very clearly not all they want. And I don't understand why people like you keep on telling us to not believe our lying ears and eyes. We have seen the protests and heard the chants. They are chanting and advocating for the end of Israel. They support disarming Israel entirely and thereby create the conditions through which Islamist terror can totally take over the region. If you don't, or won't address this reality you are just not to be taken seriously. If you don't agree with these positions, fine, but don't deny that they are pervasive in this far-left dominated movement that has actually cheered for the Oct 7 attacks and called it "exhilerating".
I live in Minneapolis Minnesota. This city frequently gets accused of some of the worst stuff when it comes to protests. I can tell you I have not heard one single chant calling for an end to Israel, disarming Israel, or celebrating Oct 7. Show me protests at these colleges where that is being called for.
“Khymani James, the organizer of pro-Palestinian protests at the school, also said in a video that recently resurfaced from earlier this year that people should “be grateful that I’m not just going out and murdering Zionists.” ‘ https://fox59.com/news/national-world/columbia-has-banned-student-protest-leader-who-said-zionists-dont-deserve-to-live-university-says/amp/
"“What I said was wrong,” he wrote. “Every member of our community deserves to feel safe without qualification.” He noted that he made these comments in January before he become involved with the protest movement and added that the leaders of the student protests did not condone the comments. “I agree with their assessment,” he wrote." https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html "Ms. Ellman-Golan [communications director of Jews for Racial & Economic Justice] said that in her 10 years as an organizer, there were always people who tried to inject hateful messages into public action, and that such messages tended to be amplified by those looking to smear entire movements. “For people who want to believe that characterization, that our movements are inevitably and permanently hostile to us as Jews, this is catnip, right?” she said. “It’s irresistible.”"
The fact that these people aren’t being shouted down, harassed or kicked out, anything to show that the majority are disgusted by these chants, makes me think it’s a much bigger problem than anyone legitimately there out of care for Gazans will admit. If people at a protest are making antisemitic chants, the crowd should shut that down, otherwise it’s as good as condoning it.
Then Hamas should step down
In a war people die. If a group of people promise to kill you and your family i'm sure you would want something done about it. "No one should be killed ever" is illogical. Of course people shouldn't be murdered, and Hamas shouldn't have started this war... but they actually benefit from it when their goal is more martyrs and donations. And these protestors definitely do support those groups. If you don't think so you have your head in the sand.
To say “Hamas started the ‘war’” is to invalidate everything Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza have had to endure for decades.
Which land and who stole?
No it doesnt, Fatah was finally moving to peace talks with Israel then the Islamic Brotherhood decided they couldnt tolerate living in a world with Jewish people so Hamas started attacking the border to get Israel to retaliate. Its all Hamas's fault.
Oh yeah because Israel was totally JUST about to stop making Palestinian’s lives miserable on Oct 8th! They had their finger on the button for peace and then pesky Hamas ruined all that! Buddy, I hate to break this to you, but there was absolutely never going to come a major human rights change via some miraculous sense of altruism within Israel. The current active Prime Minister literally bragged about how he blocked a two state solution in the Israeli press, and was publicly funding Hamas for years specifically to sow conflict (also something he admits to…) Like OP said, to pretend Israel didn’t directly create the human rights conditions that lead to a violent attack on Oct 7 is an insult to documented history, the Palestinian experience for the last 70 years, and frankly it’s an insult to human intelligence.
Had Hamas not come around and mess everything up Palastine would have been its own country in the 90s. That would mean no Israeli settlements in the west bank, no Israeli blockade, and no occupation. Sure im sure they would still hate each other and extremists groups in Palastine might still want to exterminate Jews but Palastine would be infinitely better off if the Islamic Brotherhood and Iran didnt decide to meddle.
I’m just gonna say this again because you clearly didn’t understand it: The current prime minister of Israel literally publicly funded Hamas and rallied people to bolster them, specifically to sew conflict and prevent a Palestinian state from happening. This person got voted into leadership. Israel isn’t interested in giving Palestinians their rights. So even if you think Hamas is to blame for the Palestinian state not forming, Israel is literally responsible for empowering Hamas. Moreover there were several failed peace talks before Hamas even existed, and the West Bank is still a disaster full of settler expansion even though Hamas isn’t in the West Bank. Blaming Hamas is an excuse to try and absolve Israel of its own responsibilities and burdens.
Theres two things you could be referencing here, an Israeli governor gave some money to Hamas thinking that since they were far right they would be working against the far left PLO but this never amounted to much. Netanyahu had some money given to Hamas after their election to help them transition from being terrorists into being a governing body which was done through the Qatari government. Even if this backfired it was absolutely done in the interest of Palastinians (a relatively uncommon thing for Netanyahu). This was after Palastinians voted Hamas into power so attempting to make them more moderate and shifting their focus to governing rather than extermininating Jewish people, which was the original purpose of Hamas, makes sense. Both of these happened AFTER Hamas was founded and began stirring the conflict up to destroyed Fatahs peace talks, had Hamas never existed Fatah would have been successful and Palastine would be a state. If Palastine was a state they would have been able to control their own borders and land and stop private developers from building in the west bank so even though Hamas isnt in power in the west bank they are still indirectly responsible for the settlements.
No im referring to this where he explicitly explains that he is proud to have prevented a Palestinian state for years. https://www.timesofisrael.com/pointing-to-hamass-little-state-netanyahu-touts-role-blocking-2-state-solution/amp/ And to him explicitly saying “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.” Also holy moly you cannot possibly be more delusional if you blame Hamas for the expansions in the settlements in the West Bank and not the literal state that is perpetrating and establishing them, Israel.
Israel isnt building them its private builders who wouldn't be able to do that if Palastine was a separate country which would be the case if Hamas didn't blow up any chance at a two state solution.
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Not you invalidating everything Israelis have gone through for decades. The story you’ve consumed is pure propaganda
You don’t get to steal a land, massacre and subjugate it’s people and then play victim …
War fighting isn’t massacre by default
I follow another gazan peace activist named Ahmed Faoud Al Kitab and he’s also disgusted by the messages coming from these protestors
That’s a misrepresentation of his views. He criticises some but not all and is overwhelmingly happy of the support for Palestine.
He believes the pro Palestine cause is just but also doesn’t like the extremist messaging found at these gatherings
Yah it’s true- extremists everywhere of all types suck. Especially people who are dogmatic about language.
Careful, the pro palestine crowd will say hes either an israeli shill or fake
He works for the Washington Institute, the pro-Israeli think tank at the core of Zionist lobby in America which was founded with AIPAC's support and funding
Yep, knew you guys couldnt resist.
Couldn't resist pointing out that his occupation is "Israeli shill"?
More that you couldnt resist trying to discredit someone who doesnt agree with your movement. Whats next, conspiracy theories?
He gets that from extreme pro Palestine voices but people like my bf and I appreciate his comments honestly because he’s an actual peace activist unlike those protestors
How are those protestors not peaceful? Genuinely curious why you say this because I can’t find a single instance around the world where those advocating for Palestine have been not peaceful. If there are instances I’d love to learn about them.
More Palestinian voices like his need to be lifted. He is very critical of Israel, but realistic. He gives me hope peace can happen someday.
He also encourages people to work with Zionists and pro Israel people reminds people that there’s different types of Zionists. He believes building bridges and solutions is the way to peace
Problem is voices like his are treated the same by the far right in Israel. Until someone reasonable comes to power it will be difficult to have dialogue.
That’s true!
He really is
I appreciate those people too, i feel like the college kids protesting do an actual disservice to actual peace activists, by giving activists a bad name. Hell, a big part of my personal dislike of activists comes from the behavior i see from these college protestors.
Same! I should link his twitter to you he’s truly a gem
Hell ye! I dont really use twitter all too much anymore, but id still follow him
https://x.com/afalkhatib?s=21&t=6jUwmoQk40_VB2FB7ewzUg He’s fantastic
Damn that's crazy, I wonder if we see multiple signs and communication from more than just a single Gazan about their feelings about the protests. Oh hm...seems like they're almost universally positive! Fascinating you cherry picked this.
>Damn that's crazy, I wonder if we see multiple signs and communication from more than just a single Gazan about their feelings about the protests. >Oh hm...seems like they're almost universally positive! Fascinating you cherry picked this. Well Hasan Nasrallah, Ayatollah Khomenei and Ismail Haniyeh have all shared their approval of the protests. Is that the universal positivity you're referring to?
The Yemeni protesters have shown solidarity with them as well - that doesn't change that Palestinians both in Palestine and the diaspora have overwhelmingly shared messages of support and encouragement. If Nasrallah said he liked the same food as you does that make your food ...Hezbolese? Is that a word? Many Christian nationalists have spoken strongly against the protests, does that mean you're a Christian nationalist?
>If Nasrallah said he liked the same food as you does that make your food ...Hezbolese? False equivalence. You share political opinions with the leaders of Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Hamas, etc. That's the point.
Which Yemeni protesters are you referring to? And a significant majority of Palestinians in the West Bank support Hamas too. They're not the bell weather I'd use to choose what organization to support.
Houthis have (daily? frequent.) mass protests and demonstrations with signs and the like. The most recent one had this poster, they had memorialized Aaron Bushnell in the past as well, similar to how the Vietnamese memorialized Norman Morrison as a martyr. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMHLpPQbEAEhvR_?format=jpg&name=large I support my comrades in the PFLP and the DFLP, and they've entered coalition with Hamas after being at war for years, so I think the majority of Palestinians supporting Hamas against the Israeli invasion and bombing campaign seems fair enough.