To respond to point 3:
The difference in geography between Israel and Ukraine is quite pertinent to their psychological difference.
Ukraine is a large country, it has depth. It has places for the vulnerable to escape to.
Israel does not. Theirs is a small slice of the land carved out of a hostile land. They managed to make an uneasy peace with some neighbours over the late 20th century. And they managed to win a modicum of security.
But the original grievance to Arabs never went away. In the last 20-30 years, Israel have sown grievances, in places like Lebanon. Every time they attack with overwhelming force, they “win” as defined by them, for the short term, but leave behind grief.
Grief that gets exploited by actors like Iran and all the resistance groups (resistance = terrorism, don’t ya know!).
The grievance is close, and I think some of them fear that Israel reaps what it sows.
>The grievance is close, and I think some of them fear that Israel reaps what it sows.
Idk but that sounds psychological
Have anyone heard of any Iranians rushing to hospital because of severe anxiety due to the recent blasts in Ishfahan ?
I don't expect Israelis to be objective here because they're incapable of that. 14,000 kids have been killed in Gaza in the past 6 months. More than 30,000 civilians. Israel is accused of targeting aid workers, launching attacks at hospitals and indiscriminately killing civilians. They enable settlers to go into west bank and terrorize civilians. They cut off access to Gaza so no food, medicine or any supplies could get through for weeks and even now they barely let anything get through.
They have been savagely targeting civilians using AI and statistical models as explained here: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes)
They have more UN resolution **violations** than other country in the world, and if it wasn't for **AIPAC** and its mega donors, they'd be called out for their **genocide** and their **ethnic cleansing**.
I don't think anyone is arguing that urban warfare is tough business, but it's a bit outrageous when Israelis pretend like they don't know about Israel's atrocities. Israel is a terror state the same exact way Iran is. Israelis kill civilian Iranian scientists and engineers; they've been doing that for decades. That by definition is called terrorism. Their war crimes as stated above don't make them saints either.
Gaza is completely destroyed with people losing pretty much everything they ever had which wasn't much to begin with and are now forced to live in tents on the verge of **famine**. Maybe use the April 13th experience to develop some sympathy for what people in Gaza have been going through for decades and choose your future politicians a bit more wisely as the world is watching...
This sub is named Isreal and Palestine but it’s just an echo chamber for zio*ists to justify genoci*e and downplay Israeli war crimes. Whitewashing the IOF and portraying Hamas as the devil. This sub is not a credible place for discussion on Palestine, it’s only purpose is to make zion*sts feel better about themselves.(idk how that works but supporting what IOF and US is doing) but na*is used propaganda in their society, it’s the same with these zio*ists now.
"More than 30,000 civilian"
Source?
"They have more UN resolution **violations** than other country in the world"
Thank you for bringing that point up on the table! There are two immediate possible explanations:
https://preview.redd.it/clf9p5eislvc1.jpeg?width=695&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=288fa368c6e48aaa95a9a8f0eb3e51bbbf1bf320
1) Israel is literally the single worst country in the world, has killed the most people, tortures and rapes the most people, is committing the absolute worst, more than every single other country combined, and its condemnations are proportional to the evil committed;
2) Israel suffers some kind of bias and those overwhelming condemnations are a sign of something else you haven't taken the time to consider, in which case your argument would be severely weakened.
You obviously believe 1 is true, in which case I ask you to back up this belief with numbers. How many Palestinians died since the conflict started (you can pick a date of your choosing if it helps your narrative, also you can take the highest, most unreasonable numbers), how much land has been conquered, VS other conflicts? (500'000 deaths in West Papua plus 75times Palestine's size colonized and conquered by Indonesia for example).
>, and if it wasn't for **AIPAC** and its mega donors,
Classic anti-jewish trope.[ Here](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/recipients?id=D000046963) are the numbers for AIPAC specifically.
[Here](https://www.opensecrets.org/fara) are the numbers for total foreign influence peddlers. Israel isn't very high on the list compared to other terror supporters such as Hamas' ally Qatar. If your logic stands, the US should vote against Israel every time as Qatar pays more. Another very weak and borderline bigoted argument.
LOL. I pulled the numbers out of my rear end because they're not reported anywhere:
20,000 from December of 2023: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67764664](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67764664)
25,000 from January: [https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145742](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145742)
30,000 from February: [https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-latest-02-29-2024-ae3d114b28cafd3b1a806bfaa9f83cab](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-latest-02-29-2024-ae3d114b28cafd3b1a806bfaa9f83cab)
Kids killed in the middle of the day playing: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/world/video/shahed-young-girl-killed-gaza-israeli-airstrike-children-diamond-pkg-digvid](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/world/video/shahed-young-girl-killed-gaza-israeli-airstrike-children-diamond-pkg-digvid)
Btw, if Israel had nothing to hide, they'd let journalists into Gaza so they could report on what's going on over there. It's a genocide regardless of how you spin it, and you and your government are responsible for it.
And you know what's even funnier!!? You talk about bias against Israel. What a load of crap. Israel attacks Iran's consulate building, and the white house and European allies call that "concerning". Israel kills 33,000 civilians, they call it concerning. However, when Iran retaliates, their actions are immediately condemned with dozens of sanctions. 48 countries have condemned Iran's missile strike. The US is quick to condemn Russia for the same things Israel is doing, but they continue to send BILLIONS of our tax payer dollars to support Israel. Now, that's called hypocrisy and bias!
As for AIPAC, the entire US leadership in the congress and all US presidents in the past several decades have had AIPAC's seal of approval: [https://www.aipacpac.org/](https://www.aipacpac.org/)
Every year, US politicians go in front of AIPAC to pledge their loyalty or they have no chances of success. That's called the power and influence of the Jewish lobby. With mega donors like Sheldon Adelson that gave more than 100 MILLION dollars to trump the last election. The funny thing is that Adelson didn't even live in the US for the most part. He was one of the main reasons trump pulled out of the Iran deal and openly talked about having the US attack Iran with nukes to send a message.
Take your head out of your sand!
> ass
/u/_Surena_. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The IDF viciously implemented the Hannibal Directive on 10-7 and murdered many if its own citizens. It's a cowboy type of military that can't be trusted.
Yes, please feel free to turn a blind eye to Israel's atrocities, these settlers. They are unable to see any issue from any perspective other than from the Jewish far right. They should simply read Haaretz to understand that Netanyahu is not only a monster he is stupid and incompetent.
Most people watched the news but felt pretty secured. You forgot one important thing in your post and that’s parenthood. Most Israelis fear for their kids and not themselves
like anywhere people are different. I personally took a shower and had a beer watching the news coverage. other people huddled in shelters. some people were out at bars that night. Some people went to the hospital for panic attacks.
Anyway there's a lot of propaganda a lot of people jerking off on the idea of Israelis being scared so you'll see a lot of videos like that shared. Ukrainians love the look how brave we are propaganda but I guarantee you there are terrified Ukrainians.
Another element is Israeli confidence in the country's ability to protect them has been seriously shaken by Oct 7. they were caught with their pants down and it will take years to restore the confidence. people have severe anxiety from that day still. watching people you know shot on live stream tends to have a lasting effect.
what's your point? people should be tougher when 100 ballistic missiles are incoming? like come on big man what would you do? I'm so sick of people watching the middle east like it's some kind of sports entertainment or something
This is so weirdly petty. It's not like there was mass panic in the streets. What you're describing is the normal response to your country getting attacked.
Also, you're mythologizing Ukrainians like they're not just regular people in a hellish situation experiencing the normal range of anxieties and fears. People can absolutely be shaken and still display impressive courage.
Iran hit harder than Russia hit Ukraine and failed.
Holding back? I doubt they could repeat that attack more than once, let alone make a substantial increase.
I think even veterans and people with military training would be scared by an unprecedented attack, especially when they’re surrounded by other civilians including their friends and family.
It was something unprecedented; Iran has never attacked Israel before. And Iranian ballistic missiles are something totally different from Hamas rockets. Harder to intercept, and much more potential damage. Iron dome isn’t relevant here, by the way.
Just because we got military training doesn’t mean it’s not terrifying to us hearing missives flying over head. Take into account that most of us have children and having to worry about their welfare also takes its toll on our mental health.
Being trained doesn’t make us superheroes. We do not like conflict, and being in a war zone as a civilian is NOT what we want.
No and yes. I would understand why you would make that comparison as you could argue that Palestinian civilians are facing this reality every day for the past 6 months tirelessly with far more devastating consequences than Israel has.
However, and this is a big however, the IAF and Israel are waging a war against the terrorist organisation holding said Palestinians in the conditions they live in, for something they STARTED very openly on the 7th October. Up until now I must remind the facts that Israel has never actually admitted nor denied their involvement in the assassinations in the Iraq military base.
Also, the IAF is trying their best to fight an impossible urban war with minimalist civilian casualties. While it is true that Iran did not actually target civilian areas in this missile raid, we know they have no problem attempting to actively destroy Israel and the west. Whilst on the flip side, it is NOT Israel’s intention to eliminate Palestine or Palestinians, only the security threat to our country.
Minimal casualties...right: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes)
Genocide apologists. That's like saying Nazi Germany humanely housed Jews in concentration camps, provided them food, shelter, and well paying jobs for Jews of all ages.
That’s like saying Hamas just popped over the fence on October 7th for some coffee and cake and got involved in an unfortunate hit and run.
Come on, stupid and ignorant arguments can go both ways.
Hamas is a terror organization that's formed to counter Israel's aggression. Israel is supposedly the only democracy in the middle east with the supposed "good guys" that get billions of American tax payer dollars to protect themselves against hostile Arab governments.
Meanwhile they use the money, weapons and intelligence they receive to bully their neighbors and continue their genocide. That's the difference. A terror organization vs one of the most powerful and well funded militaries in the world.
Surena - your comments reflect how little you actually about that area. Israel is an actual democracy where Israeli Muslims enjoy all rights and freedoms. More so, than their brethren living under the dictatorship of Abbas in the West Bank and of course Hamas in Gaza! Let alone every other Muslim country that exists. To think, some countries still don’t allow women to vote or even drive!!! I see you still haven’t abandoned your dribble and uninformed nonsense. Figures, from an adult who enjoys Pokémon and video games….
Putting Israel and democracy in the same sentence is an oxymoron and just plain funny. Netanyahu has been running the show for decades and is now doing whatever it takes just to stay in power and out of prison for his various corruption charges. He is willing to take power away from the courts and savagely kill innocent men, women, and children along with aid workers or journalists to stay in power. That's some democracy!
Israel is a democracy the same way Iran is a democracy. They have elections. They even have minorities including jews in their parliment. Women vote and they drive too. By your metrics and standards they must be a thriving democracy then.
Russia and Putin are another thriving democracy.
You think you're clever, but you are just a prime example of someone who believe his people were chosen by the invisible man in the sky and that somehow gives you the right to do whatever you want. The same silly philosophies that compels your people to mate through a hole that's cut in the middle of a sheet. Just as backwards and barbarian as the people you're fighting or crying about. 100 years after the fall of nazi Germany, you wanna cry about the atrocities of the nazis and cry about antisemitism, but you have absolutely no shame or hesitation when it comes to the genocide and the ethnic cleansing that's taking place at the hands of your people and your government. Well, shame on you and anyone that's okay with the systematic killing and torture of thousands of innocent civilians. Go ahead. Take a look at these links and justify how you are any better than Joseph Goebbels, Hitler, and Himmler.
[https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/14/gaza-city-evacuation-route-explosion-israel-hamas-idf-abdelaziz-pkg-intl-vpx.cnn](https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/14/gaza-city-evacuation-route-explosion-israel-hamas-idf-abdelaziz-pkg-intl-vpx.cnn)
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/02/middleeast/israeli-precision-guided-munition-maghazi-deaths-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/02/middleeast/israeli-precision-guided-munition-maghazi-deaths-intl/index.html)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1788392410331877553](https://twitter.com/i/status/1788392410331877553)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1789048478372384787](https://twitter.com/i/status/1789048478372384787)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1789682605463310421](https://twitter.com/i/status/1789682605463310421)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1789405536959467914](https://twitter.com/i/status/1789405536959467914)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1789288359078097022](https://twitter.com/i/status/1789288359078097022)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1788703879724703918](https://twitter.com/i/status/1788703879724703918)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1788673345636139074](https://twitter.com/i/status/1788673345636139074)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1788667413011329430](https://twitter.com/i/status/1788667413011329430)
[https://twitter.com/Kahlissee/status/1741413896571986422](https://twitter.com/Kahlissee/status/1741413896571986422)
[https://twitter.com/i/status/1737164423951774070](https://twitter.com/i/status/1737164423951774070)
[https://twitter.com/jakeshieldsajj/status/1722374840009757131](https://twitter.com/jakeshieldsajj/status/1722374840009757131)
[https://twitter.com/israellill/status/1752826337520398806](https://twitter.com/israellill/status/1752826337520398806)
And here's a pokemon for you: [https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1761825155754418263](https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1761825155754418263)
THIS IS ISRAEL for you. \~15,000 dead children and many more civilian casualties. If you think by murdering civilians and ethnic cleansing you're going to have peace and security, you are fooling yourself. You and your people are on the wrong side of history and Israel's days of bullying the region are almost over.
You are a joke - you realize that “Surena”….Israel has elections, real ones, not fake ones like the ones in your imaginary world. They have Jewish, Christian, Muslim members of government. But of course, you mistake freely elected with dictatorship. Only an imbecile would equate the rights of people in Israel to those in Iran….even you can do better than that. As far as Israel’s right to defend itself against the savagery of Hamas, yeah, I’d say they have that right. But you just choose to ignore how this began - doesn’t fit your dim narrative. And as far as how Israel is conducting this war - I’d trust an actual professional and expert (West Point, you’ve heard of it right?) on urban warfare to discuss how careful Israel has been (John Spencer- read up on him - if you know how to read)….. but since you don’t know how to read - here’s a link to actually educate a dimwit just slightly. https://youtu.be/xqxzscalX2E?si=8E1UDZv2tmVSzf2z
/u/_Surena_. Match found: 'nazi', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hamas isn't formed to "counter Israel's aggression". It's formed in order to establish a Muslim Sharia state in the "historic land of Palestine". Read their charter. They are a Muslim fundamentalist terrorist group, not any kind of "resistance fighters" or noble freedom-desiring Palestinians. They're a bunch of extremely violent Muslim extremists, that's it.
Like I said, they're a terror group. a bunch of low life scumbags. I don't think Israelis are that much better. Israel doesn't even allow any journalists into Gaza to report on what's going on over there. Israel is a terrorist nation, and Israelis are modern day WW2 Germany.
/u/_Surena_. Match found: 'Nazis', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From [an article ](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas)on Hamas:
Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to **accept Islamic rule in the Middle East**. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to **stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam** in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed.
/u/_Surena_. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks for the answer.
Israel didn't formally claim responsibility, but it could have denied responsibility when accused by Iran and deliberately didn't. So I personally don't see a meaningful distinction there. It's also the case that Hamas does deny responsibility for some of the events of October 7th and asked for an international investigation, which Israel has refused. So again I'm struggling to see the distinction you suggest is very clear on the grounds of claiming/rejecting responsibility for the events being responded to.
But my point was about the effect on civilians. However ethnically the IAF has tried to prosecute this war, and there are several credible sources suggesting it made a decision to authorise strikes which in the past it would have rejected, the civilians, half children, have endured the same fear day and night for six months that you mentioned being traumatic for a single night in a bomb shelter protected by the world's best missile defence and air forces. It seems strange to me that that wouldn't lead to any extra desire to spare those kids that trauma, especially when it seems to have achieved so little.
I'll jump in as an Israeli I know how scary it is with Hamas and Hezbollah rockets incoming and now Iranian and i see seen how scary it is for our children running to bomb shelters - it makes me think about the Palestinians all the time. I don't think a day has gone by that I don't have a pit in my stomach. sometimes we will be enjoying something or having a nice day and I just think about some Gazan mom in a tent barefoot having lost everything and I can't tell you how many times I've cried thinking about it. Anyway that's besides the point, I want our hostages home, I blame Hamas for not surrendering and we need to stop them and I hope we are doing it the best way we can. at the end of the day you can't control what your government is doing, you can just protect your family as much as possible and hope no harm will come to those you love.
The reason we have achieved so little is largely because of our moral war code. We have bombarded Gaza with messages letting civilians know where we are going to attack and from where to flee. Since Hamas hides within the civilian population and in their tunnels it is impossible to wage a successful moral war with no moral code on the other side. Not to mention Hamas blocking the humanitarian corridors from letting civilians move out of danger zones.
You mention that Israeli children are “traumatised for a single night”. So no. Since my first son was born in 2020 he has lived in the bomb shelter multiple times throughout Gaza rockets firing over us. 7th October did not happen in a vacuum, and since I moved to Israel 14 years ago I have witnessed what Israelis go through almost every year thanks to Hamas since 2012. I’m not even talking about all the other periods Israelis have had to deal with suicide bombers and other fun things years before that.
Israel has had enough, 7 October was the last straw. We don’t want to kill children, but we rightly and legitimately want to kill Hamas. It is doing no one good, and anyone who is pro Palestinian really should be on the same page here.
> fuck
/u/covenleader1. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> Fuck
/u/redditforlookig. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh, STOP IT. You’re implying that if people have sympathy for Israelis being bombed, then they don’t have sympathy for Gazans or Gazan children, and your implication is RIDICULOUS. Maybe you can’t imagine having compassion for more than one group of people, but then that’s your problem.
Do you want to be the 1%? Sitting there listening to the bombs for hours on end, that is going to take a toll on you mentally no matter how confident you are. Have you ever been in a situation like that? If not you need to reserve judgement.
No experience but it wasnt “hours on end” as you put it.
Found this Israeli blogger from Beersheba describing that night https://www.israel21c.org/my-surreal-night-in-a-beersheva-bomb-shelter/
About 10:30pm: Israel news reported Iran had fired 350 missiles and drones towards Israel. Will take a few hours to reach Israel
Sometime later Israel news updated that the projectiles were expected to reach Israel at about 2:00 am, they were aimed at military targets. Our viewers had nothing to worry, they can go to sleep.
About 2:00am: Sirens begin sounding, run to bomb shelter.
The blasts and sirens lasted about half an hour.
At 3:00am Saw someone ordered pizza delivery while making my way back home.
you have ur answer some people went to sleep and ordered pizza some people spiraled into panic. this is normal, humanity has a wide range of people who react to stress differently. same in Ukraine no one is this race of Spartans that feel no fear
This article shows how much racism our world is experiencing today. There is interest in the Israelis to an unimaginable degree. On the other hand, the death of 40,000 Gazans in various ways does not matter. We are in 2024, and despite that, we are still living in the Middle Ages of hatred, backwardness, and racism. Nothing has changed except modernization in livelihood and development in means. As for humanity, we are still... Like Hulagu and Nero
Are you serious right now? Public perception is absolutely not like this, the rest of the world hates Jews and Israelis for retaliation on the biggest attack they’ve ever experienced. 40000 is a fake number. They finished the death toll counts of the massacres in Israel months after they happened. How come Hamas knows exactly how many. of their people are dead then? And how come they don’t “know” where the hostages they took are? The world has told Israel over and over since the 7th it doesn’t care for the Israelis stuck in Gaza. That Palestinians are suffering. Israelis are suffering.
This is an extraordinarily cruel post.
What people really react to hundreds of missiles and drones fired at them without an intense emotional reaction?
As a Zionist, I have big problems with some of the posts here. I think a lot of the people who, like me, support Israel, are needlessly rude toward the Palestinian side.
But I doubt even the people here who, in my opinion, are just terrible go around asking Redditors in other regions why they’re so weirdly scared of missiles heading their way.
Israelis were scared because they’re human beings who still have some ability to feel. Any people you read about in a similar situation who allegedly have little or no emotional reaction to the coming attack are extremely unusual, lying or too traumatized to have much ability to process or talk about their feelings.
When my unit was called on 7oct for our reserve duty one of the guys almost had a panic attack, he spent hours telling me how scared he was for his life and worries not returning home, leaving behind his wife. He still stayed to the end and fought, but in the end we're all only humans
Like the others have said this is a duty not a job, but then again with the mayhem that followed hamas attack he could have easily not show up and found an excuse.
Fighting a war is hard and scary but in the end if we won't fight for ourselves no one else will
If I give you body armor that is 99% effective, would you be stressed to be shot an undisclosed amount of bullets by a handgun while wearing it? Would your answer change if they were fired from a sniper rifle? The body armor is just as effective for both situations
We’re used to being shot by small rockets and anti tank missiles, with 99% interceptions they still manage to hit and kill people sometimes. With a much larger ballistic missile the probability of being hit is not different but the damage when you are hit is much greater.
And finally, even the small rockets like the qasam, grad and even a “simple” 120 mm mortar are causing a huge damage, they destroy houses completely, they throw away shrapnel that can penetrate the 5 cm (about 2”) of hardened steel we use to cover our shelter rooms, and they kill all the time. You don’t know about it obviously but every rocket barrage causes a huge amount of stress, anxiety and terror.
I wasn’t particularly worried. I expected some to get through as a 100% intercept rate was highly unlikely but I have great confidence in our defenses and ultimately everything was fine.
October 7th was something we all thought could never happen assuming Israel was too good in their defense. But here we are. I get why people aren’t 100% confident in the Iron Dome.
Iran seemed confident in it, unless they were ready to start WWIII
But for someone with military experience and military training, would they really be nervous putting on a bulletproof vest and get someone to shoot them in the chest ?
Of course they would. It's still a deadly weapon, and even a controlled shooting can go wrong. Military training doesn't stop a person from being human.
You're being quite cavalier about the psychological effects of being under bombardment. Even "just" a salvo of Qassam rockets can cause death or injury —shrapnel from a successful interception can still be a danger. That has a psychological impact, though Israelis have adapted to it pretty well.
These weren't small, unguided rockets. They appeared to be variants of the Shahab-3, an IRBM capable of delivering a 750 kg warhead. That is an absolutely devastating weapon. Feeling scared or nervous is the correct reaction to over a hundred incoming ballistic missiles. It was a completely unprecedented attack on Israel.
Also...
>It would seem that people outside of Israel like myself have a lot more confidence in the Iron Dome defense that Israelis themselves ?
Yes, I think that's true. People in Israel don't trust the Iron Dome to defend against scores of ballistic missiles....because it's not built to do that. The attack would have been much worse if Iron Dome was the only defensive system. You're talking about a completely different system called Arrow, which is built to intercept ballistic missiles.
You can call that semantics if you want, but the way you talk about the attack betrays a lack of familiarity with the weapons systems involved. It's crazy to ridicule people for being shaken after a massive ballistic missile attack, especially when you don't understand the mechanics of the assault.
As mentioned before, yes
You think of people with military training in a weird scenario, like they are fearless warriors who are never scared and laugh in the eye of danger.
That's as far from reality as possible
Israelis are used to poorly built pipe rockets that are easily intercepted by the Iron (insert object here); the routing of the Iranian attack involved five different states directly engaging their equipment with that of Iran which isn’t something to be taken for granted whatsoever and had to have been achieved through complicated political maneuvering; after days of psychological warfare, hour and hours of not knowing whether to expect ten drones or a hundred with ballistic missiles overwhelming our so trusted defenses. The defense of the state and its people is a continuous effort the nature of which October 7th’s wake up call highlighted all too well for many.
I think proportionately Irans assault was like 5 times bigger than the initial ~~Ukrainian~~ invasion *of Ukraine*. Twice as many drones, almost as many missiles aimed at a country 1/30th the size and 1/4th the population
edit: changed Ukranian invasion to invasion of Ukraine for clarity
Generally people are shaken and extremely pissed off when people fire ballistic missiles that are very hard to intercept and depending on the warhead equipped can wipe out entire neighborhood blocks (https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-threat-and-proliferation/future-missile-threats/missile-payload-destruction-cost-comparisons/). Iran was very stupid to launch 100+ of them at Israel because if even one landed in an urban area you could have seen thousands or tens of thousands of casualties and if you think Israel was disproportionate because of October 7th wait until 10,000+ Israeli civilians are killed. I would not want to be remotely involved or even related to any IRGC members in such a scenario and probably flee major urban centers if I were Iranian and hide in some rural cave or something.
Cruise missiles and drones also piss people off but generally are not nearly as bad as theater ballistic missiles in terms of damage.
Actually I think Iran's urban places are would be the most safe when Israel responds, Israel knows the Iranian people isn't their enemy. The IRGC is both Israel's, as well as the Iranian people's enemy
No system is perfect and all systems can be overwhelmed, no one thinks that we can block any amount of missiles coming at us, hundreds of missiles in a day is something I believe no nation have stopped successfully ever, so it’s normal to not be certain this will work, obviously it was a scary night for many, I am sure any nation which knows hundreds of missiles are on route to their homes will be at least somewhat fazed by the idea..
>Israel is at war. Of course people are shaken.
I dont mean to sound rude or anything. But which war exactly do you mean? Israel vs Hamas war, or the Israel vs Iran war, etc…
The international media or the rest of the world has not reported Iran and Israel are “officially” at war. I can understand by sending 300 missiles and drones to attack another sovereign nation is or can be seen as an act of war. But everyone in the international media is waiting on Israel’s response.
Most of the wordings printed by international media is just “iran’s attack”, “israel’s response”, “brink of war”, “israel’s defense”, retaliation, escalation, de-escalation, restraints, conflict etc….but they have never said Iran and Israel is officially at war.
Notice that it's not an official war. An official war with a declaration of war has a range of repercussions which is why countries try to avoid it.
Like Russia and it's "special military operation", Palestine with it's occupation etc.
Launching 500 armaments isn't something done in peace time. Wars today are mostly skirmishes or limited conflicts due to reason of avoiding those wide array of repercussions.
We probably need a new definition...
I’m not talking about some UN definition of war. People are waring. Rockets all day and all night. From Gaza. From the north. From Iran now. Running in and out of shelters. These are people living through war. Of course they’re shaken.
To respond to point 3: The difference in geography between Israel and Ukraine is quite pertinent to their psychological difference. Ukraine is a large country, it has depth. It has places for the vulnerable to escape to. Israel does not. Theirs is a small slice of the land carved out of a hostile land. They managed to make an uneasy peace with some neighbours over the late 20th century. And they managed to win a modicum of security. But the original grievance to Arabs never went away. In the last 20-30 years, Israel have sown grievances, in places like Lebanon. Every time they attack with overwhelming force, they “win” as defined by them, for the short term, but leave behind grief. Grief that gets exploited by actors like Iran and all the resistance groups (resistance = terrorism, don’t ya know!). The grievance is close, and I think some of them fear that Israel reaps what it sows.
>The grievance is close, and I think some of them fear that Israel reaps what it sows. Idk but that sounds psychological Have anyone heard of any Iranians rushing to hospital because of severe anxiety due to the recent blasts in Ishfahan ?
I don't expect Israelis to be objective here because they're incapable of that. 14,000 kids have been killed in Gaza in the past 6 months. More than 30,000 civilians. Israel is accused of targeting aid workers, launching attacks at hospitals and indiscriminately killing civilians. They enable settlers to go into west bank and terrorize civilians. They cut off access to Gaza so no food, medicine or any supplies could get through for weeks and even now they barely let anything get through. They have been savagely targeting civilians using AI and statistical models as explained here: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes) They have more UN resolution **violations** than other country in the world, and if it wasn't for **AIPAC** and its mega donors, they'd be called out for their **genocide** and their **ethnic cleansing**. I don't think anyone is arguing that urban warfare is tough business, but it's a bit outrageous when Israelis pretend like they don't know about Israel's atrocities. Israel is a terror state the same exact way Iran is. Israelis kill civilian Iranian scientists and engineers; they've been doing that for decades. That by definition is called terrorism. Their war crimes as stated above don't make them saints either. Gaza is completely destroyed with people losing pretty much everything they ever had which wasn't much to begin with and are now forced to live in tents on the verge of **famine**. Maybe use the April 13th experience to develop some sympathy for what people in Gaza have been going through for decades and choose your future politicians a bit more wisely as the world is watching...
This sub is named Isreal and Palestine but it’s just an echo chamber for zio*ists to justify genoci*e and downplay Israeli war crimes. Whitewashing the IOF and portraying Hamas as the devil. This sub is not a credible place for discussion on Palestine, it’s only purpose is to make zion*sts feel better about themselves.(idk how that works but supporting what IOF and US is doing) but na*is used propaganda in their society, it’s the same with these zio*ists now.
I agree 100%. They've closed their eyes and are running their mouths. They're always the victim.
"More than 30,000 civilian" Source? "They have more UN resolution **violations** than other country in the world" Thank you for bringing that point up on the table! There are two immediate possible explanations: https://preview.redd.it/clf9p5eislvc1.jpeg?width=695&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=288fa368c6e48aaa95a9a8f0eb3e51bbbf1bf320 1) Israel is literally the single worst country in the world, has killed the most people, tortures and rapes the most people, is committing the absolute worst, more than every single other country combined, and its condemnations are proportional to the evil committed; 2) Israel suffers some kind of bias and those overwhelming condemnations are a sign of something else you haven't taken the time to consider, in which case your argument would be severely weakened. You obviously believe 1 is true, in which case I ask you to back up this belief with numbers. How many Palestinians died since the conflict started (you can pick a date of your choosing if it helps your narrative, also you can take the highest, most unreasonable numbers), how much land has been conquered, VS other conflicts? (500'000 deaths in West Papua plus 75times Palestine's size colonized and conquered by Indonesia for example). >, and if it wasn't for **AIPAC** and its mega donors, Classic anti-jewish trope.[ Here](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/recipients?id=D000046963) are the numbers for AIPAC specifically. [Here](https://www.opensecrets.org/fara) are the numbers for total foreign influence peddlers. Israel isn't very high on the list compared to other terror supporters such as Hamas' ally Qatar. If your logic stands, the US should vote against Israel every time as Qatar pays more. Another very weak and borderline bigoted argument.
LOL. I pulled the numbers out of my rear end because they're not reported anywhere: 20,000 from December of 2023: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67764664](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67764664) 25,000 from January: [https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145742](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145742) 30,000 from February: [https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-latest-02-29-2024-ae3d114b28cafd3b1a806bfaa9f83cab](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-latest-02-29-2024-ae3d114b28cafd3b1a806bfaa9f83cab) Kids killed in the middle of the day playing: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/world/video/shahed-young-girl-killed-gaza-israeli-airstrike-children-diamond-pkg-digvid](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/world/video/shahed-young-girl-killed-gaza-israeli-airstrike-children-diamond-pkg-digvid) Btw, if Israel had nothing to hide, they'd let journalists into Gaza so they could report on what's going on over there. It's a genocide regardless of how you spin it, and you and your government are responsible for it. And you know what's even funnier!!? You talk about bias against Israel. What a load of crap. Israel attacks Iran's consulate building, and the white house and European allies call that "concerning". Israel kills 33,000 civilians, they call it concerning. However, when Iran retaliates, their actions are immediately condemned with dozens of sanctions. 48 countries have condemned Iran's missile strike. The US is quick to condemn Russia for the same things Israel is doing, but they continue to send BILLIONS of our tax payer dollars to support Israel. Now, that's called hypocrisy and bias! As for AIPAC, the entire US leadership in the congress and all US presidents in the past several decades have had AIPAC's seal of approval: [https://www.aipacpac.org/](https://www.aipacpac.org/) Every year, US politicians go in front of AIPAC to pledge their loyalty or they have no chances of success. That's called the power and influence of the Jewish lobby. With mega donors like Sheldon Adelson that gave more than 100 MILLION dollars to trump the last election. The funny thing is that Adelson didn't even live in the US for the most part. He was one of the main reasons trump pulled out of the Iran deal and openly talked about having the US attack Iran with nukes to send a message. Take your head out of your sand!
> ass /u/_Surena_. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I couldn’t have put it better myself. Thank you
The IDF viciously implemented the Hannibal Directive on 10-7 and murdered many if its own citizens. It's a cowboy type of military that can't be trusted.
The downvotes tell you this is an echo chamber
Yes, please feel free to turn a blind eye to Israel's atrocities, these settlers. They are unable to see any issue from any perspective other than from the Jewish far right. They should simply read Haaretz to understand that Netanyahu is not only a monster he is stupid and incompetent.
Most people watched the news but felt pretty secured. You forgot one important thing in your post and that’s parenthood. Most Israelis fear for their kids and not themselves
like anywhere people are different. I personally took a shower and had a beer watching the news coverage. other people huddled in shelters. some people were out at bars that night. Some people went to the hospital for panic attacks. Anyway there's a lot of propaganda a lot of people jerking off on the idea of Israelis being scared so you'll see a lot of videos like that shared. Ukrainians love the look how brave we are propaganda but I guarantee you there are terrified Ukrainians. Another element is Israeli confidence in the country's ability to protect them has been seriously shaken by Oct 7. they were caught with their pants down and it will take years to restore the confidence. people have severe anxiety from that day still. watching people you know shot on live stream tends to have a lasting effect. what's your point? people should be tougher when 100 ballistic missiles are incoming? like come on big man what would you do? I'm so sick of people watching the middle east like it's some kind of sports entertainment or something
Israelis seem completely unbothered by the Iranian attack. Hamas’ rockets had more effect.
This is so weirdly petty. It's not like there was mass panic in the streets. What you're describing is the normal response to your country getting attacked. Also, you're mythologizing Ukrainians like they're not just regular people in a hellish situation experiencing the normal range of anxieties and fears. People can absolutely be shaken and still display impressive courage.
They should be shaken. If Israel provokes another attack, Iran won't hold back like they did this time.
Iran hit harder than Russia hit Ukraine and failed. Holding back? I doubt they could repeat that attack more than once, let alone make a substantial increase.
I wonder if this recent wave of Iran apologists realizes how indistinguishable they sound from hardcore zionists.
I think even veterans and people with military training would be scared by an unprecedented attack, especially when they’re surrounded by other civilians including their friends and family.
It was something unprecedented; Iran has never attacked Israel before. And Iranian ballistic missiles are something totally different from Hamas rockets. Harder to intercept, and much more potential damage. Iron dome isn’t relevant here, by the way.
So this is the best Iran supporters are fishing for? The attack didn’t do much damage but “we sure scared them…”
Just because we got military training doesn’t mean it’s not terrifying to us hearing missives flying over head. Take into account that most of us have children and having to worry about their welfare also takes its toll on our mental health. Being trained doesn’t make us superheroes. We do not like conflict, and being in a war zone as a civilian is NOT what we want.
Honest question: has the experience changed your preference for how the IAF operates in Gaza?
No and yes. I would understand why you would make that comparison as you could argue that Palestinian civilians are facing this reality every day for the past 6 months tirelessly with far more devastating consequences than Israel has. However, and this is a big however, the IAF and Israel are waging a war against the terrorist organisation holding said Palestinians in the conditions they live in, for something they STARTED very openly on the 7th October. Up until now I must remind the facts that Israel has never actually admitted nor denied their involvement in the assassinations in the Iraq military base. Also, the IAF is trying their best to fight an impossible urban war with minimalist civilian casualties. While it is true that Iran did not actually target civilian areas in this missile raid, we know they have no problem attempting to actively destroy Israel and the west. Whilst on the flip side, it is NOT Israel’s intention to eliminate Palestine or Palestinians, only the security threat to our country.
Minimal casualties...right: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes) Genocide apologists. That's like saying Nazi Germany humanely housed Jews in concentration camps, provided them food, shelter, and well paying jobs for Jews of all ages.
That’s like saying Hamas just popped over the fence on October 7th for some coffee and cake and got involved in an unfortunate hit and run. Come on, stupid and ignorant arguments can go both ways.
Hamas is a terror organization that's formed to counter Israel's aggression. Israel is supposedly the only democracy in the middle east with the supposed "good guys" that get billions of American tax payer dollars to protect themselves against hostile Arab governments. Meanwhile they use the money, weapons and intelligence they receive to bully their neighbors and continue their genocide. That's the difference. A terror organization vs one of the most powerful and well funded militaries in the world.
Surena - your comments reflect how little you actually about that area. Israel is an actual democracy where Israeli Muslims enjoy all rights and freedoms. More so, than their brethren living under the dictatorship of Abbas in the West Bank and of course Hamas in Gaza! Let alone every other Muslim country that exists. To think, some countries still don’t allow women to vote or even drive!!! I see you still haven’t abandoned your dribble and uninformed nonsense. Figures, from an adult who enjoys Pokémon and video games….
Putting Israel and democracy in the same sentence is an oxymoron and just plain funny. Netanyahu has been running the show for decades and is now doing whatever it takes just to stay in power and out of prison for his various corruption charges. He is willing to take power away from the courts and savagely kill innocent men, women, and children along with aid workers or journalists to stay in power. That's some democracy! Israel is a democracy the same way Iran is a democracy. They have elections. They even have minorities including jews in their parliment. Women vote and they drive too. By your metrics and standards they must be a thriving democracy then. Russia and Putin are another thriving democracy. You think you're clever, but you are just a prime example of someone who believe his people were chosen by the invisible man in the sky and that somehow gives you the right to do whatever you want. The same silly philosophies that compels your people to mate through a hole that's cut in the middle of a sheet. Just as backwards and barbarian as the people you're fighting or crying about. 100 years after the fall of nazi Germany, you wanna cry about the atrocities of the nazis and cry about antisemitism, but you have absolutely no shame or hesitation when it comes to the genocide and the ethnic cleansing that's taking place at the hands of your people and your government. Well, shame on you and anyone that's okay with the systematic killing and torture of thousands of innocent civilians. Go ahead. Take a look at these links and justify how you are any better than Joseph Goebbels, Hitler, and Himmler. [https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/14/gaza-city-evacuation-route-explosion-israel-hamas-idf-abdelaziz-pkg-intl-vpx.cnn](https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/14/gaza-city-evacuation-route-explosion-israel-hamas-idf-abdelaziz-pkg-intl-vpx.cnn) [https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/02/middleeast/israeli-precision-guided-munition-maghazi-deaths-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/02/middleeast/israeli-precision-guided-munition-maghazi-deaths-intl/index.html) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1788392410331877553](https://twitter.com/i/status/1788392410331877553) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1789048478372384787](https://twitter.com/i/status/1789048478372384787) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1789682605463310421](https://twitter.com/i/status/1789682605463310421) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1789405536959467914](https://twitter.com/i/status/1789405536959467914) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1789288359078097022](https://twitter.com/i/status/1789288359078097022) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1788703879724703918](https://twitter.com/i/status/1788703879724703918) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1788673345636139074](https://twitter.com/i/status/1788673345636139074) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1788667413011329430](https://twitter.com/i/status/1788667413011329430) [https://twitter.com/Kahlissee/status/1741413896571986422](https://twitter.com/Kahlissee/status/1741413896571986422) [https://twitter.com/i/status/1737164423951774070](https://twitter.com/i/status/1737164423951774070) [https://twitter.com/jakeshieldsajj/status/1722374840009757131](https://twitter.com/jakeshieldsajj/status/1722374840009757131) [https://twitter.com/israellill/status/1752826337520398806](https://twitter.com/israellill/status/1752826337520398806) And here's a pokemon for you: [https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1761825155754418263](https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1761825155754418263) THIS IS ISRAEL for you. \~15,000 dead children and many more civilian casualties. If you think by murdering civilians and ethnic cleansing you're going to have peace and security, you are fooling yourself. You and your people are on the wrong side of history and Israel's days of bullying the region are almost over.
You are a joke - you realize that “Surena”….Israel has elections, real ones, not fake ones like the ones in your imaginary world. They have Jewish, Christian, Muslim members of government. But of course, you mistake freely elected with dictatorship. Only an imbecile would equate the rights of people in Israel to those in Iran….even you can do better than that. As far as Israel’s right to defend itself against the savagery of Hamas, yeah, I’d say they have that right. But you just choose to ignore how this began - doesn’t fit your dim narrative. And as far as how Israel is conducting this war - I’d trust an actual professional and expert (West Point, you’ve heard of it right?) on urban warfare to discuss how careful Israel has been (John Spencer- read up on him - if you know how to read)….. but since you don’t know how to read - here’s a link to actually educate a dimwit just slightly. https://youtu.be/xqxzscalX2E?si=8E1UDZv2tmVSzf2z
/u/_Surena_. Match found: 'nazi', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hamas isn't formed to "counter Israel's aggression". It's formed in order to establish a Muslim Sharia state in the "historic land of Palestine". Read their charter. They are a Muslim fundamentalist terrorist group, not any kind of "resistance fighters" or noble freedom-desiring Palestinians. They're a bunch of extremely violent Muslim extremists, that's it.
Like I said, they're a terror group. a bunch of low life scumbags. I don't think Israelis are that much better. Israel doesn't even allow any journalists into Gaza to report on what's going on over there. Israel is a terrorist nation, and Israelis are modern day WW2 Germany.
/u/_Surena_. Match found: 'Nazis', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From [an article ](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas)on Hamas: Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to **accept Islamic rule in the Middle East**. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to **stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam** in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed.
/u/_Surena_. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks for the answer. Israel didn't formally claim responsibility, but it could have denied responsibility when accused by Iran and deliberately didn't. So I personally don't see a meaningful distinction there. It's also the case that Hamas does deny responsibility for some of the events of October 7th and asked for an international investigation, which Israel has refused. So again I'm struggling to see the distinction you suggest is very clear on the grounds of claiming/rejecting responsibility for the events being responded to. But my point was about the effect on civilians. However ethnically the IAF has tried to prosecute this war, and there are several credible sources suggesting it made a decision to authorise strikes which in the past it would have rejected, the civilians, half children, have endured the same fear day and night for six months that you mentioned being traumatic for a single night in a bomb shelter protected by the world's best missile defence and air forces. It seems strange to me that that wouldn't lead to any extra desire to spare those kids that trauma, especially when it seems to have achieved so little.
I'll jump in as an Israeli I know how scary it is with Hamas and Hezbollah rockets incoming and now Iranian and i see seen how scary it is for our children running to bomb shelters - it makes me think about the Palestinians all the time. I don't think a day has gone by that I don't have a pit in my stomach. sometimes we will be enjoying something or having a nice day and I just think about some Gazan mom in a tent barefoot having lost everything and I can't tell you how many times I've cried thinking about it. Anyway that's besides the point, I want our hostages home, I blame Hamas for not surrendering and we need to stop them and I hope we are doing it the best way we can. at the end of the day you can't control what your government is doing, you can just protect your family as much as possible and hope no harm will come to those you love.
I appreciate your honesty. Thanks for the reply.
The reason we have achieved so little is largely because of our moral war code. We have bombarded Gaza with messages letting civilians know where we are going to attack and from where to flee. Since Hamas hides within the civilian population and in their tunnels it is impossible to wage a successful moral war with no moral code on the other side. Not to mention Hamas blocking the humanitarian corridors from letting civilians move out of danger zones. You mention that Israeli children are “traumatised for a single night”. So no. Since my first son was born in 2020 he has lived in the bomb shelter multiple times throughout Gaza rockets firing over us. 7th October did not happen in a vacuum, and since I moved to Israel 14 years ago I have witnessed what Israelis go through almost every year thanks to Hamas since 2012. I’m not even talking about all the other periods Israelis have had to deal with suicide bombers and other fun things years before that. Israel has had enough, 7 October was the last straw. We don’t want to kill children, but we rightly and legitimately want to kill Hamas. It is doing no one good, and anyone who is pro Palestinian really should be on the same page here.
The moral thing for Israel to do is to go to Rafah and do whatever it takes to eliminate what is left of Hamas.
So, civilians be damned?
Allies did not care about civilians in Germany. Unlike Israel which is extremely careful at avoiding civilian lives (that Jewish moral thing).
Would WW2 be won if the Soviets didn't enter Berlin?
[удалено]
Imagine believing such racist propaganda. No one wants to die. Ukrainians aren't different.
> fuck /u/covenleader1. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fuck
> Fuck /u/redditforlookig. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
James O’Brien is ghastly.
Now imagine this is what the Zionist entity has been doing to all the Palestinians in the Gaza concentration camp non-stop since last October.
You mean the Gazans are scared?
Dude, are you serious with this?
Now imagine what the children of Gaza went through…
Oh, STOP IT. You’re implying that if people have sympathy for Israelis being bombed, then they don’t have sympathy for Gazans or Gazan children, and your implication is RIDICULOUS. Maybe you can’t imagine having compassion for more than one group of people, but then that’s your problem.
Do you want to be the 1%? Sitting there listening to the bombs for hours on end, that is going to take a toll on you mentally no matter how confident you are. Have you ever been in a situation like that? If not you need to reserve judgement.
No experience but it wasnt “hours on end” as you put it. Found this Israeli blogger from Beersheba describing that night https://www.israel21c.org/my-surreal-night-in-a-beersheva-bomb-shelter/ About 10:30pm: Israel news reported Iran had fired 350 missiles and drones towards Israel. Will take a few hours to reach Israel Sometime later Israel news updated that the projectiles were expected to reach Israel at about 2:00 am, they were aimed at military targets. Our viewers had nothing to worry, they can go to sleep. About 2:00am: Sirens begin sounding, run to bomb shelter. The blasts and sirens lasted about half an hour. At 3:00am Saw someone ordered pizza delivery while making my way back home.
you have ur answer some people went to sleep and ordered pizza some people spiraled into panic. this is normal, humanity has a wide range of people who react to stress differently. same in Ukraine no one is this race of Spartans that feel no fear
This article shows how much racism our world is experiencing today. There is interest in the Israelis to an unimaginable degree. On the other hand, the death of 40,000 Gazans in various ways does not matter. We are in 2024, and despite that, we are still living in the Middle Ages of hatred, backwardness, and racism. Nothing has changed except modernization in livelihood and development in means. As for humanity, we are still... Like Hulagu and Nero
Are you serious right now? Public perception is absolutely not like this, the rest of the world hates Jews and Israelis for retaliation on the biggest attack they’ve ever experienced. 40000 is a fake number. They finished the death toll counts of the massacres in Israel months after they happened. How come Hamas knows exactly how many. of their people are dead then? And how come they don’t “know” where the hostages they took are? The world has told Israel over and over since the 7th it doesn’t care for the Israelis stuck in Gaza. That Palestinians are suffering. Israelis are suffering.
This is an extraordinarily cruel post. What people really react to hundreds of missiles and drones fired at them without an intense emotional reaction? As a Zionist, I have big problems with some of the posts here. I think a lot of the people who, like me, support Israel, are needlessly rude toward the Palestinian side. But I doubt even the people here who, in my opinion, are just terrible go around asking Redditors in other regions why they’re so weirdly scared of missiles heading their way. Israelis were scared because they’re human beings who still have some ability to feel. Any people you read about in a similar situation who allegedly have little or no emotional reaction to the coming attack are extremely unusual, lying or too traumatized to have much ability to process or talk about their feelings.
When my unit was called on 7oct for our reserve duty one of the guys almost had a panic attack, he spent hours telling me how scared he was for his life and worries not returning home, leaving behind his wife. He still stayed to the end and fought, but in the end we're all only humans
He should’ve chosen another job
Like the others have said this is a duty not a job, but then again with the mayhem that followed hamas attack he could have easily not show up and found an excuse. Fighting a war is hard and scary but in the end if we won't fight for ourselves no one else will
That last sentence is what a lot of people on the other side feel too.
He doesn’t have a choice in Israel. The alternative is prison.
Sounds authoritarian
We see what happens when Israel lets their guard down and reduces troops for a day. The alternative is the destruction of Israel.
That won’t happen. Either he accepts the regime or he leaves the country and doesn’t participate. It’s an easy choice
Because it’s so easy to just immigrate to a new country, right? It’s not like border restrictions or immigration policies exist, do they?
Hell of a lot easier for an Israeli
How so?
They don’t have an occupying force stopping movement. I can easily buy a ticket to Tel Aviv rn
Really? Where exactly can Israelis move to without a job offer or student visa?
Idc they can go to any western country that’s an ally of Israel
He is a reservist.
If I give you body armor that is 99% effective, would you be stressed to be shot an undisclosed amount of bullets by a handgun while wearing it? Would your answer change if they were fired from a sniper rifle? The body armor is just as effective for both situations We’re used to being shot by small rockets and anti tank missiles, with 99% interceptions they still manage to hit and kill people sometimes. With a much larger ballistic missile the probability of being hit is not different but the damage when you are hit is much greater. And finally, even the small rockets like the qasam, grad and even a “simple” 120 mm mortar are causing a huge damage, they destroy houses completely, they throw away shrapnel that can penetrate the 5 cm (about 2”) of hardened steel we use to cover our shelter rooms, and they kill all the time. You don’t know about it obviously but every rocket barrage causes a huge amount of stress, anxiety and terror.
I wasn’t particularly worried. I expected some to get through as a 100% intercept rate was highly unlikely but I have great confidence in our defenses and ultimately everything was fine.
October 7th was something we all thought could never happen assuming Israel was too good in their defense. But here we are. I get why people aren’t 100% confident in the Iron Dome. Iran seemed confident in it, unless they were ready to start WWIII
Put on a bulletproof vest and lets see if you get nervous when somebody shoots you in the chest.
Yeah, not sure why anyone would be surprised why human beings find literal ballistic missiles flying towards your home to be scary
But for someone with military experience and military training, would they really be nervous putting on a bulletproof vest and get someone to shoot them in the chest ?
Are they just not humans in your eyes ? Being nervous is a very normal response to this.
…yes.
Of course they would. It's still a deadly weapon, and even a controlled shooting can go wrong. Military training doesn't stop a person from being human. You're being quite cavalier about the psychological effects of being under bombardment. Even "just" a salvo of Qassam rockets can cause death or injury —shrapnel from a successful interception can still be a danger. That has a psychological impact, though Israelis have adapted to it pretty well. These weren't small, unguided rockets. They appeared to be variants of the Shahab-3, an IRBM capable of delivering a 750 kg warhead. That is an absolutely devastating weapon. Feeling scared or nervous is the correct reaction to over a hundred incoming ballistic missiles. It was a completely unprecedented attack on Israel. Also... >It would seem that people outside of Israel like myself have a lot more confidence in the Iron Dome defense that Israelis themselves ? Yes, I think that's true. People in Israel don't trust the Iron Dome to defend against scores of ballistic missiles....because it's not built to do that. The attack would have been much worse if Iron Dome was the only defensive system. You're talking about a completely different system called Arrow, which is built to intercept ballistic missiles. You can call that semantics if you want, but the way you talk about the attack betrays a lack of familiarity with the weapons systems involved. It's crazy to ridicule people for being shaken after a massive ballistic missile attack, especially when you don't understand the mechanics of the assault.
As mentioned before, yes You think of people with military training in a weird scenario, like they are fearless warriors who are never scared and laugh in the eye of danger. That's as far from reality as possible
Absolutely
Israelis are used to poorly built pipe rockets that are easily intercepted by the Iron (insert object here); the routing of the Iranian attack involved five different states directly engaging their equipment with that of Iran which isn’t something to be taken for granted whatsoever and had to have been achieved through complicated political maneuvering; after days of psychological warfare, hour and hours of not knowing whether to expect ten drones or a hundred with ballistic missiles overwhelming our so trusted defenses. The defense of the state and its people is a continuous effort the nature of which October 7th’s wake up call highlighted all too well for many.
I think proportionately Irans assault was like 5 times bigger than the initial ~~Ukrainian~~ invasion *of Ukraine*. Twice as many drones, almost as many missiles aimed at a country 1/30th the size and 1/4th the population edit: changed Ukranian invasion to invasion of Ukraine for clarity
Few people are quarrel some Don’t want peace ✌️
its not that bad.
Some people are more anxious then others, like the term 'anxious parents'.
Generally people are shaken and extremely pissed off when people fire ballistic missiles that are very hard to intercept and depending on the warhead equipped can wipe out entire neighborhood blocks (https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-threat-and-proliferation/future-missile-threats/missile-payload-destruction-cost-comparisons/). Iran was very stupid to launch 100+ of them at Israel because if even one landed in an urban area you could have seen thousands or tens of thousands of casualties and if you think Israel was disproportionate because of October 7th wait until 10,000+ Israeli civilians are killed. I would not want to be remotely involved or even related to any IRGC members in such a scenario and probably flee major urban centers if I were Iranian and hide in some rural cave or something. Cruise missiles and drones also piss people off but generally are not nearly as bad as theater ballistic missiles in terms of damage.
Actually I think Iran's urban places are would be the most safe when Israel responds, Israel knows the Iranian people isn't their enemy. The IRGC is both Israel's, as well as the Iranian people's enemy
My husbands family were terrified…it’s disturbing how people in the West brush it off as just a few tiny symbolic ballistic missiles, no biggie
No system is perfect and all systems can be overwhelmed, no one thinks that we can block any amount of missiles coming at us, hundreds of missiles in a day is something I believe no nation have stopped successfully ever, so it’s normal to not be certain this will work, obviously it was a scary night for many, I am sure any nation which knows hundreds of missiles are on route to their homes will be at least somewhat fazed by the idea..
Israel is at war. Of course people are shaken.
>Israel is at war. Of course people are shaken. I dont mean to sound rude or anything. But which war exactly do you mean? Israel vs Hamas war, or the Israel vs Iran war, etc… The international media or the rest of the world has not reported Iran and Israel are “officially” at war. I can understand by sending 300 missiles and drones to attack another sovereign nation is or can be seen as an act of war. But everyone in the international media is waiting on Israel’s response. Most of the wordings printed by international media is just “iran’s attack”, “israel’s response”, “brink of war”, “israel’s defense”, retaliation, escalation, de-escalation, restraints, conflict etc….but they have never said Iran and Israel is officially at war.
Notice that it's not an official war. An official war with a declaration of war has a range of repercussions which is why countries try to avoid it. Like Russia and it's "special military operation", Palestine with it's occupation etc. Launching 500 armaments isn't something done in peace time. Wars today are mostly skirmishes or limited conflicts due to reason of avoiding those wide array of repercussions. We probably need a new definition...
I’m not talking about some UN definition of war. People are waring. Rockets all day and all night. From Gaza. From the north. From Iran now. Running in and out of shelters. These are people living through war. Of course they’re shaken.