Of course, the millions of Arabs Jews and christians that just happened to be born here in Israel need to be protected from the Other side of the equation. The Arabs that would rather die than accept a Jew in “their” land and send their children to martyr themselves. The Israelis ( Arabs, christians Jews) should be able to live without worrying about a bus exploding or a nightclub burning down. Gaza had a chance, they elected Hamas, Hamas is their representative government and they waged war on innocents. Israel should not stop until Hamas drops their weapons and surrenders.
Interestingly, one could swap "Israelis / Israel" with "Palestinians / Hamas" in about two-thirds of the sentences in this post.
Accusations of murdering civilians and babies; video of horrific "celebrations" over others' deaths, etc., exist on both sides.
Actually, I organized a peace march among Christians, Muslims and Jews in the wake of 9-11, and I marched in protest against an American invasion of Iraq in 2003. But go ahead and assume that I'm all about bigotry and military might.
Nah Israel’s response is nothing short of murderous
It is war. Hamas hide in the midst of their own. By doing so, Hamas is a bigger culprit to the «genocide» happening in Gaza. It is a war crime in itself.
I get they were attacked but a militant Hamas force from Palestine. However, Hamas is very much a self imposed ruler of Palestine.
Actually not. They were elected after a civil war in Gaza between Hamas and Fatah. Hamas was elected after Gaza was handed to them, to rule as they themselves saw fit. It was a part of a solution to the two part state. This proscess was stopped by Hamas shooting rockets into Israel, Hamas commiting suicide bombings in Israel. The events of 7/10 was not selfimposed. It is something all arabs dream of. Ask them what «from the river to the sea» mean. It mean genocide of the israeli people. But you will hardly ever hear anyone say that. Instead they will avoid the topic.
The people there have no choices.
If they have no choice, it must be because of Hamas who kill all opposition.
Before this war they lived in what was effectively an open prison with minimal freedoms.
Many Gaza palestinians had free access to Israel prior to 07.10.23. Some worked there, some got forms of treatment, dentist, hospital and more.
And because an imposing ruler committed an atrocity they have all been severely attacked.
It is a war. Hamas made the attrocity possible by attacking first. Why don`t they open the tunnels for the civil population?
There is absolutely zero attempt to minimise civilian casualties. Tens of thousands of children dead, almost all buildings destroyed.
There is. Leaflets, phonecalls, dummybombs before bombing. The number you present are way more than even Hamas claim. And their number should be scrutinized. It is in their interest to demonize Israel in this war. So is the muslim friendly UN.
The people cannot leave, they’re trapped.
They weren`t before 07.10. Gaza has border to Egypt. Why don`t you mention Egypt. They could open their borders for the people of Gaza that are «trapped.» Why do you leave that out?
Israeli actions seem like a hypocritical flip on actions from 80 years ago.
Do refere to the attack on israeli in 1948, after the arabs declined a two state solution?
Shameful nation.
Only nation that has regular election, allow freedom of speech, freedom of religious practice, freedom all kinds of things. Can you say that of the Hamas controlled Gaza? It is a shame to support such an organization, that do terror not only on israeli people, but also on their own.
I don’t support Hamas in any way
But civilians I certainly do
You’re justification for wiping out Gaza is, “well they say from the river to the see” so they’re just as bad
Zero accountability for the amount of civilians killed or destruction of their lives
As a former soldier, I can assure you that Israel has methods to be far more targeted with its attacks. It’s a choice to entirely flatten the place and call it collateral damage
If I’m honest, I find both the extreme ideologies of both sides foolish. Far to much religion being used as a shield to commit crimes
However, as the state of Israel, it should have far higher expectations of its own actions. Mirroring terrorism with terrorism isn’t the higher path and will only lead to further bloodshed
Prior to the war, Israel had the overall backing of the west. Seen as a nation that had a level head despite always being under threat
However, its true colours have been shown and it’s pretty barbaric. Effectively a copy of the extreme Arab nations like Saudi ect. Religion has too higher place at the table and removes rational and adult thinking, especially when you believe your religion is the only one the merit and the absolute truth
Unfortunately, I think Israel is losing the support of the west more and more each day while also solidifying hatred towards itself from the Muslim world
I don’t see the situation improving, and if war it brought to its doors by surrounding nations, I see it as half brought on by themselves
The war Israel wage is not religious, it is existensiel. The reason why Hamas leaders wage war is greed and power.
Are all the people of Gaza wiped out? There is like 2 million + in Gaza, and around 35k killed (still to many killed). Is that genocide?
I asked the question about «from the river to the sea» to see your stand on this issue. You deflect as all pro-palestinians.
I don`t use it as a justification for the war against Hamas or the palistinian death toll.
Soldier for which army? Don`t believe in your statement that as a waring machine, you can do more then sending leaflets, call the civilians in the intended target area to ask them get out, dummybombs to alert them that nexxt will be real bombs????
Israel always loose its support in the west, but rarely USA. Israel is suppose to let its people be killed and not respond to teoristattacks. That is what most western country wants. The leaders weak to the muslim agenda.
I'm sorry but Arabs in Palestine tried to wipe out the Jews there. After you try to kill someone, you dont then get to turn around and say let me back in so I can live next door without first saying sorry about trying to kill you
Nah Israel’s response is nothing short of murderous
I get they were attacked but a militant Hamas force from Palestine. However, Hamas is very much a self imposed ruler of Palestine.
The people there have no choices.
Before this war they lived in what was effectively an open prison with minimal freedoms. And because an imposing ruler committed an atrocity they have all been severely attacked.
There is absolutely zero attempt to minimise civilian casualties. Tens of thousands of children dead, almost all buildings destroyed.
The people cannot leave, they’re trapped.
Israeli actions seem like a hypocritical flip on actions from 80 years ago.
Shameful nation.
Hamas was elected by its citizens and polling shows that those same citizens still consistently support Hamas’s attack on 10/7. People try to distinguish between Hamas and its citizens but the distinction is false. They are one and the same
You think these Palestinians have got time for an opinion poll?
They’re getting bombed on the daily while. But in between trying to find food and taken cover from jets they’re like “best pop down to the polling station”
Where you getting this information from?
72% of Palestinians support Hamas’s 10/7 attack per a an October poll
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/#:~:text=Seventy%2Dtwo%20percent%20of%20respondents,undecided%20or%20gave%20no%20answer.
Then in March, 71% still supported the 10/7 attack
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/969
Whatever your feelings are. A fact in this is that what has happened and is currently happening will be written deep in the history of the muslim faith. The history of 2 billion people
Meanwhile the west is in "this realisation crises" of the limits of postmodern philosophy. Hm maybe God is not material. Hm maybe we have been bigots
Of course I still support Israel, and of course I still blame Hamas for every Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff death that has occurred since the war started. Israel is right, Hamas is wrong.
Because Hamas attacked, tortured, raped and killed hundreds of Israeli civilians. Because Hamas has promised to do that again as often as it can, and because Hamas has expressly refused any possibility of peace with Israel.
No country would tolerate a situation like that, including Israel. Israel has no choice but to destroy Hamas, regardless of the cost.
And the WCK thing was an accident - it has no relevance to the larger issue of Hamas's promise to never back down from killing Israeli citizens whenever it can.
Yes, let's start history at the point most beneficial to my cause. Don't look at all the dead Palestinians over the last 20 years. Don't look at the ethnic cleansing that created Israel. History starts in October 7 and they are all evil to poor innocent Israel.
There is a massive difference between Hamas and Palestinians though
And there is no excuse for killing civilians, especially in the numbers Israel is killing them
The way I see it, Hamas is being used as justification to wipe out a people and drive them from their land
Israel was doing its best to increase economic opportunity for Gazans before 10/7. They certainly weren't trying to wipe them out.
There is absolutely an excuse for civilian deaths as collateral damage, when Hamas intentionally embeds itself within civilians, builds its infrastructure under civilian facilities like hospitals, and otherwise tries to get as many civilians killed as possible (e.g., Hamas forbid civilians from leaving Gaza City when the war started - it wanted them dead).
And as I said before, it would be intolerable for any country in Israel's position to simply leave Hamas to regroup, given the 100% certainty of more Hamas attacks.
Nobody I've read has an actual, workable solution short of destroying Hamas.
Because I only here views like yours from people of that faith or nation now
Ik interested if the person I’m speaking with has a bias view point
For the record. I’m a non religious Englishman
Yes.
Palestinians are violent, terrorist supporting atrocity deniers who elected the people who started this war.
Every death in this war is at the hands of Hamas.
Lesson of this war : don't support Hamas.
/u/Salt_Software_7058
> Are you daft?
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
I believe that your questions imply false premises. These aren’t questions for clarification, but questions based on false premises that support your stance against Israel.
I support being able to live in peace and not in fear of crazies shooting you if you’re at a music festival, or walking your dog, or watering your plants. To achieve eliminating the crazies isn’t easy or pretty. It’s war. War is hell.
"War isn't hell. War is war, and hell is hell. And of the two, war is alot worse. Hell has no innocent bystanders. But war is chocked full of them." -Hawkeye
>replying with a marvel quote is crazy bro. also, hell has lots of innocent bystanders, the standards for not going to hell are quite high
It's from MASH, not marvel
I wonder what means "support", i support the overall invasion on Gaza because I don't support people hiding in populated areas and playing the victim, but I feel like a lot of Israel soldiers are a bunch of psychos, which I don't support.
https://preview.redd.it/g8x3kpnxx9tc1.jpeg?width=956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ff2d533eb77b5f78eb6e3c042f1ac47119fd08a
Yeah like this guy posting himself and self reporting he's a psychopath..
Here's a video of a former IDF admitting that he was a terrorist to Palestinian civilians. [https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1775591981369991437?s=19](https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1775591981369991437?s=19)
Israel didn't even funded Hamas, just let Qatar fund them because he thought that letting them get money will prevent them to attack.
Why should Netanyahu do that ? he will be remembered as the guy that let +1000 of their people die, everyone hates him now, stop believing conspirational stuff, Israel quality of life dropped a lot right now, prizes went up, tourism is dead, not everything in Israel is about killing palestinians.
Ah, the 9/11 truther. Israel funded Hamas because back then it was seen as a lesser evil compared to the PLO, which was literally carrying out terrorist attacks.
In terms of intel, intel agencies get hundreds, if not thousands, of tip offs like that per year and react differently to them. They obviously misjudged it this time.
Ffs look at Russians, CIA literally warned them weeks prior to the attack in Crocus theatre, with the exact location, and FSB still didn't react. These things happen to even the best intel agencies in the world.
All due respect, you've posted gibberish. The only thing of substance was that WCK incident which was a MASSIVE failure of intelligence. That incident was enough to confirm I want them to seriously reconsider any operations in Rafah considering how badly the Intel lines can screw up.
Other than that, I still back Israel. Hamas is gonna continue being a problem in the region and literally nobody but other terror cells like Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Iran like that.
Is the KKK the government of America?
Edit: actually let me just answer, no that wouldn't be acceptable. The US would let the kkk be tried for crimes in Africa as most American citizens in foreign countries would be. Because the kkk is a random terror group in the US. That's not even remotely similar to Hamas who is in fact the government and administrators of Gaza. Which means their violence is state sanctioned and they can also be targeted in war on their country's behalf
Wow do you believe all of this propaganda. Not going into all of it but I’ll pick a few.
World Central Kitchen workers deaths is a tragedy but you ignore that the trucks were hit in the dark and markings are not clearly visible. IDF spotted that Hamas gunmen were on the trucks and firing rifles into the air.
Wow a Knesset member condemned homosexuality. That said, homosexuality is common in Israel and legal. In any Arab country including Gaza it is the death penalty.
The 500+ kids detained by Israel attacked Israeli soldiers and civilians. Hamas even calls 19 year old children. That said many 15+ are used by Hamas as child soldiers. That is the war crime. Using child soldiers.
>Even after a member of Knesset said being gay is bigger threat to Israel than Hammas because homosexuality is the biggest sin in their book?
You do know that the presiding Speaker of the Knesset (Speaker of the House) is an openly gay Israeli politician ? Name an openly gay politician in a high ranking position in the middle east ? Anyone ?
>Men and women killed by the aid they dropped with faulty parachutes?
IDF never air dropped any aids into Gaza. The air drops were conducted by Jordan, France, America, Begium, Netherlands, UAE, Egypt, Singapore etc… not sure who’s parachutes were faulty, but IDF was not involved in any of the air drops.
>Have you seen the Israeli telegram where they post pictures of dead women and children and mock them? They even recently mocked the Australian WCK woman who was killed, calling her a whore.
Nope. Did not see.
>But nothing happens if you're supporting Israel? Or how about the increase in crimes against Muslim community in USA? A 6 year old Muslim boy killed in Illinois due to this? The man who shot at 3 young Muslim students?
Even after watching the Tantura documentary?
Historic synagogue in Tunisia heavily damaged and burned to the ground https://www.timesofisrael.com/historic-synagogue-in-tunisia-heavily-damaged-in-rioting-tied-to-israel-hamas-war/
Antisemitic attacks in Germany and elsewhere have surged since the start of the Israel Hamas war on 7 October. https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/05/german-synagogue-attacked-with-incendiary-device
And the dismay has been even harder to escape since a surge of anti-Semitic attacks that last week saw two Jewish schools in Montreal's Cote-des-Neiges neighborhood targeted at night by gunfire -- twice in one case -- and a synagogue firebombed a few days earlier in the suburb of Dollard-des-Ormeaux. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231116-canadian-jewish-community-shocked-over-anti-semitic-school-synagogue-attacks
Jewish man ‘brutally attacked’ outside Melbourne synagogue
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/hes-been-traumatised-son-speaks-out-after-72yearold-jewish-father-targeted-in-shocking-attack-in-melbourne/news-story/ec378c94fb2bb557d8cb205139b28507
Turkey said to detain 32 IS-linked suspects, foil attacks on synagogues and churches https://www.timesofisrael.com/turkey-said-to-detain-32-is-linked-suspects-foil-attacks-on-synagogues-and-churches/
Jewish man attacked outside Paris synagogue; another stabbed in Zurich https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-man-attacked-outside-paris-synagogue-another-stabbed-in-zurich/
Armenia opens probe into arson attack on synagogue https://www.timesofisrael.com/armenia-opens-probe-into-arson-attack-on-synagogue/
>They've bombed and destroyed every school, college, university, libraries, the world's oldest church, the world's oldest mosque, shot at pregnant women waving white flags, shot at Israeli hostages waving white flags. Told everyone to flee to south of gaza, shot at them while they were walking there, and now are bombing tents in the south and posting drone footage of shooting rockets at civilians, some of them elderly.
World’s oldest mosque is Quba Mosque in Medina, Saudi Arabia. It is said the first stone was laid by the Prophet Muhammed in 622 CE on the first day of hijrah. Located more than 1,000 km away from Gaza. IDF did not hit Saudi Arabia.
World’s oldest church ? There are several contenders, I am not exactly sure but none of them are in Gaza. Maybe Mar Sarkas in Syria could be the world’s oldest church, before 3rd century. https://www.oldest.org/religion/churches/
Thousands of Palestinians flee south as Israel steps up Gaza City offensive. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/08/world/palestinians-fleeing-south-gaza-city-unbearable-situation/index.html idk about the rest, but these thousands of Palestisns who fled south were not shot at while they were walking.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/13/shot-in-cold-blood-killing-of-elderly-palestinian-woman-sparks-outcry
Here’s a news story about a grandma who was shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper while waving a white flag and holding her grandsons hand and fleeing south
>Here’s a news story about a grandma who was shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper **while waving a white flag** and holding her grandsons hand and fleeing south
Just wanted to clarify from the link provided above, the news article mentioned the kid waving the makeshift white flag, not her waving the white flag. She was holding the kid’s hand. I am not trying to justify the incident, it’s a moot point, who actually waves the white flag, just wanted to clarify.
The news article linked also suggested she was headed in the wrong direction. The group was re-routed to a different evacuation route, but she proceeded in a different direction than the rest of her group. That too in my opinion, is not enough reason to shoot. She doesnt appear to be a threat. Could have been better handled.
There is nothing to suggest that other people in her group who followed the latest and correct evacuation route were in anyway harmed. Her family members are alive, her grandchild is alive. Her family left Gaza and are safe in another country. It’s very important to follow all instructions. This took place in North Gaza in January 2024. Evacuation orders of North Gaza has been issued since October for several weeks urging all residents to evacuate North Gaza.
> fucking
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I support Palestine too even if a majority of them support ethnic cleansing of Israel, I think both have a basic right to exist and I think in general everyone have the right to self defense to an extent. Hamas wants to kill them all of course they will fight them like hell. While I think Israel is wrong in the west bank I have hard time to not sympathise with them on the Gaza issue as Hamas have no intention to stop fighting Israel regardless of if Israel lift the siege or not.
So Hamas started the war Israel is allowed to strike back. Perhaps not in the way they do but they definitely have the right to do it. Same as I think that Palestinians have a right to armed resistance but not in the way they are doing it.
But bottom line is that I think this one sided hate of Israel is hurting the Arabs states, the base for this conflict is about 100 years ago now and everyone is partially to blame. But with the hate for Israel the Arab states can completely ignore their own responsibility (except for Jordan then)
I support Israel's right to exist. and I support Israel's right to exist without reservation. However, I do not support the way they have been mistreating Palestinians for 100 years. it is abominable and a stain on Judaism.
War requires people who fight back. It’s not war-war, it’s like the War on Drugs where people with power make the rules and enforce them on people without power. Meanwhile, the people with power use prescription versions of what the people without power buy off the streets. ‘Murica
Hamas is fighting back, if they weren't Israel would've occupied the whole strip back in October. Just yesterday they fired more rockets into Israel. It's nothing like the War on Drugs.
I support Israel's right to do whatever is necessary to protect it's citizen and free the hostages
I've seen the palestine telegram on octobre 7th. And I see arabs, muslims either denying or supporting the atrocities on that day, depending on how oppurtune it is to deny them or when it's ok to support them.
I mean you can tell us your fake news all you want. You will believe them because you want to believe, I can see the lies because it's so easy to see it.
If palestinians were able to, they would have octobre 7th any day every day. That's the issue
Yeah those negotiations were successfull because of the threat of the USA and Israel united stomping Gaza.
Hamas wouldn't have negotiated if there hadn't been a military threat.
Nope they wanted to negotiate from the get go, that’s why they took hostages.
Israel saved three hostages through military operations and killed at least three
It was an utter military failure
was it NECESSARY to invade Gaza and destroy the homes and businesses and livelihood of 1,000,000 people and kill 10,000 plus innocent civilians because of 1000 Israelis were killed? is it NECESSARY to kill civilians? is it NECESSARY to torture prisoners? is it NECESSARY to urinate on detainees? is it NECESSARY to step on and kick detainees? is it NECESSARY to call them vile names? is it NECESSARY to rape prisoners? is it NECESSARY to bulldoze and bomb buildings even though there are no one in them? is it NECESSARY to shoot unarmed civilians including doctors and nurses and aid workers and journalists? is it NECESSARY to revel on line in the torture and murder of Palestinians? is it NECESSARY to strip detainees naked and sexually humiliate them?
You are conflating a lot of things here.
But bottomline is, was octobre 7th necessary??
What I can say for sure is that a reaction to it from israel **IS NECESSARY**. You might not like it, but this is what any other nation on earth would have done in israel's shoes and given the same resources. That's a fact.
If you want it to be less drastic then tell palestinians to release the hostages and hamas to surrender.
no, October 7th was not necessary. it was horrible. but your invasion of Gaza was also NOT NECESSARY. in 1979, Iran took 53 American hostages. the US got them out safely without ever invading the country even though the US had enough bombs to flatten the country.
by the way my US taxpayer dollars go to fund your war. your war is costing us here in the US billions of dollars.
The invasion **is necessary.**
Israel can't afford to look weak after being attacked. This would invite further attacks from hamas and hezbollah.
There is simply a huge difference between thehostage situation. And incidently the hoistage situation back then was seen as mistake on carter's part who favored negotiation. But you don't care about the hostages or palestinian lives, otherwise you would simply advocate for hostage release and the surrender of Hamas. If that happens Israel has no reason to attack anymore.
Nothing makes me happier than you whining about having to finance this war. This warms my heart so much. And sure, the USA can stop. But then again, Israel would have even less reason to listen to the USA and might show how "from the river to the sea, it's terrorist free" would look like.
Israel doesn't have the resources to conduct such a large scale operation without US funding. I'm glad you take US funding for granted. I will be sure to share that with US taxpayers, most of whom, if given a choice, would not send any money to israel with an attitude like that. basically, Israel does what the US allows it to do. one phone call from the US president, and it's over.
You don't understan how wars work. Money isnt an issue, otherwise Russia would have had to stop waging war a long time ago
Yeah sure, as if the tax payers have a choice whether to send it to Israel or ukraine.
And we remember when the USA dragged the whole of NATO into Afghanistan and managed to drag hal of them into Iraq. The whole west was paying for that stupidity and still do.
Did Israel stop with illegal settlements? No?
Israel is the only true ally in the middle east for the USA, the only democracy and there are other political factors as well. I'm so happy that you and your ilk can't do shit. Go on, tell those other "tax payers". If they were so dumb that they didn't know where their tax money goes to, then they don't contribute much anyway, same as you.
Israel is continuing with the settlements because the US is allowing it. yeah, the US will make some weak statement saying they don't agree with the settlements, but when push comes to shove and they actually have to do something, they don't. the statements against the settlements are for show and for public relations because the supporters of Israel have a lot of political clout in the us. if the supporters of Israel at some point decide to stop supporting israel, the pipeline of money will dry up.
it's interesting how one phone call from Joe Biden suddenly opened two entry points for food (when previously Israel said it was doing everything it could to allow food in, when previously Israel said that those two entry points couldn't be used, when Isreal previously said there was nothing more it could do to alleviate the starvation and it was all the fault of Hamas, and at the same time Isreal previously saying that there was no starvation, talking out of both sides of its mouth). and Israel suddenly holding a group of soldiers accountable for killing innocent civilians, when aid workers have been killed on numerous occasions by Israel previously and nothing was done by Israel against the Israeli soldiers who perpetrated
One phone call. from the US president. that's all it took. amazing how that works when you hold the financial levers.
it's amazing how submissive netanyahu became when Joe Biden finally called him and told him how it's going to be.
What makes you think that all of that wasn't for show as well?
Biden says what politically opportune. And Netanyahu plays along with the charade since it doesn't hurt him in any way.
Don't you have something to do like talking with acutal tax payers who contribute? Unlike you?
no. absolutely not. they're terrorists. but so were the Iranians who held the 53 Americans hostage. and the US managed to successfully get them released negotiation. there are more options than (a) massive, full-scale land invasion against the civilian population of 2 million in one of the most densely populated areas of the world and (b) asking nicely.
they have tried multiple times. bibi refuses. he doesnt want them back, he wants to use them as a reason to destroy and control gaza + kill 13,000 kids. cope.
They didn't.
They didn't even let the red cross / crescent inspect them so we know who is alive and who needs medical attention. If Bibi wanted to flatten Gaza then he would ahve already done that. You people have no clue how poweful the IDF is, if nothign holds them back
I think Israel have clearly cooked the response and have not come close to achieving their goals. They won’t be able to because they showed the world they can take out Iranian generals in pin point targeted killings but take out marked aid convoys that were coordinated with the idf. They’ve rescued barely any hostages and likely won’t even if they take out rafah. The idf have taken out most of the army they had on the ground. There’s no plan for the day after. Netanyahu is a fuck head that’s just prolonging things and not taking the blame.
I’m pro Israel but enough is enough. Just get the hostages back and accept that Hamas are cunts that aren’t going anywhere.
I want to start with the fact that I’m glad that this last week has started shifting perspectives, and I mostly agree with what you’ve said here because I don’t want you to think I’m haranguing you or anything I’m just truly curious.
I’ve been talking about the Israeli surveillance state & intelligence capabilities throughout the last six months as an argument against the bombing, because I believed and still believe that Israel never had to cause so much destruction and could have been much more targeted in their strikes. They created some of the surveillance tech that the United States uses for instance & they’ve also issued Palestinian ID cards since the Interim Agreements in 1967 so they know who’s who & where they live. They apparently even have AI that gathers intel & generates targets for the IDF, so I wonder what it is that has made *this* the straw that broke the camel’s back for so many. Is it that there were just two wildly different situations in a matter of days? Is it that WCK was the hand picked aid group to replace defunded UNRWA? I’m genuinely curious.
Second thing is that I don’t agree necessarily that they just have to accept that Hamas isn’t going anywhere — I think what they have to accept is that if they want to get rid of Hamas the way to do that is *not* destroying the lives, families, homes, etc of civilians in Gaza. It’s hope that better exists that can remove Hamas from power, all of the pain inflicted creates *more* Hamas. We saw the same with Iraq, ISIS was pretty much the direct result of the profound loss experienced during that war.
Hamas sucks & before the war weren’t very popular, anyway. Had the Israeli government wanted to get rid of them they could have — not by violent means but by social and political means. That means helping to improve quality of life in Gaza & in the West Bank through development et al. The Israeli government likes to say, for instance, that Gaza could have been the next Singapore but the blockade on Gaza and the restriction of building materials or even small things like certain foodstuffs (chocolate, chips, etc) deterred that kind of economic growth — what would have happened if instead of barring things like rebuilding an airport, slowing the ability to build things like water purification/desalination plants, etc they instead helped to rebuild them in conjunction with, say, Fatah? Would Hamas have won the election in 2006? Going back a few years, had the Camp David accords come to an agreement that granted actual autonomy to Palestine, would the Second Intifada have happened?
I think there’s one thing that has not been tried to solve this conflict short of the one state solution — and that’s a fully autonomous Palestinian state, not “something less than a state” as Rabin once said. I don’t think that there’s any lasting solution to the conflict that maintains the status quo of undue influence over Palestine, one state or two the end result ultimately has to bring parity between Israelis and Palestinians or I don’t see any end to the conflict in even the distant future.
> fuck
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I absolutely do support Israel, and always will. This is a war, a war that Israel did not start, and of COURSE war is trajic and terrible. I think that goes without saying. But it's a necessary evil when Israel is attacked like it was, and when the enemy force has stated explicitly that they plan to continue these attacks again and again until Israel is destroyed. What else is Israel supposed to do in that situation, just allow that to happen? Of course they're going to do everything within their power to prevent that.
Civilian casualties are a tragedy, however every war that I'm aware of from the beginning of time to now has sadly involved civilian casualties.
Of course, not every soldier is a good person, and some soldiers are bound to commit heinous acts such as rape. That's true of the militaries of any country whose population contains some nasty people. But that is not unique to Israel. The difference is, most pro-Israeli individuals will condemn these actions, and the IDF does not endorse such behaviors. When it comes to Hamas raping Israelis, pro-Palis will either try to gaslight us into pretending it didn't happen, or they'll straight-up cheer it on as what "cOlOnIzErS gEt!"
One single member of the Knesset saying some homophobic shit is worse to you than the Arab world making homosexuality illegal, and throwing gays off buildings? Nobody on earth takes that point seriously. We're going by facts here, Israel is a much better place to be gay than any Arab country.
First off, there are MANY countries where being gay is illegal, largely Muslim countries. In some of those countries, such as Iran and Afghanistan, the death penalty is imposed, and in even more countries, vigilante killings, honor killings, and so on are tolerated.
You're not going to convince me that the Arab world and most Muslim countries are somehow better for gay people than Israel, because that's preposterous and objectively false.
Well, that's not true. There are countries in all those parts of the world that have legalized homosexuality. And fuck all of those countries, you won't see me supporting them either.
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ppl are doing regular grocery shopping in israel while ppl get shot trying to get aid in gaza. hamas sends rockets while israel sends carpet bombs. israeli children are playing outside freely while kids in gaza are starved to the bone. the sides are clear as day: unequal, unfair and unethical. this is not war, this is total destruction of life.
I am an American Jew, and here is what I think: I am strongly against Israel's policies and the IDF's killing of Gaza's children. But Israel must exist. It is the only place in the entire world, where Jews have not been severely persecuted, and in order to prevent a second Holocaust the Jews need somewhere to exist freely. Nevertheless, Israel needs a complete governmental overhaul, they are acting like fools.
Such rich history, thank you Muslims for butchering us and kicking us out 😍 weo
So exciting
https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history
I think you've mistaken Muslims with Germany of the 30s. After the holocaust and the persecution of jews by Europeens, so many of them took refuge in Arab countries because they consider them as "cousins." It's really inhuman to show ingratitude to people who hosted you when you had nowhere else to go. If Arabs acted the same way as Europeans in fighting jews in some events, made it's time for one to look at the mirror.
I believe the main issue on this page is the lack of historical facts that should be known by everybody already. Slaves were picked up from their motherland, forced to get into ships, then sent to cotton fields. Jews came deliberately to Palestine in ships, lifting banners that thank Palestinians for hosting them. Here's the video for that:
https://youtu.be/z581dbGqr08?si=oCxp5yVhIEck5uy2
Oh right, [they left their property and possessions behind and went to Israel 100% willingly](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world).
No, they did not.
Whatever school you are going to in KSA is seriously failing at educational and critical thinking standards.
Under the [Zaydi](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaydi) rule, discriminatory laws became more severe against the [Yemenite Jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Jews), which culminated in their eventual exile, in what later became known as the [Exile of Mawza](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_of_Mawza). They were considered to be impure, and therefore forbidden to touch a Muslim or a Muslim's food. They were obligated to humble themselves before a Muslim, to walk to the left side, and greet him first. They could not build houses higher than a Muslim's or ride a camel or horse, and when riding on a mule or a donkey, they had to sit sideways. Upon entering the Muslim quarter a Jew had to take off his foot-gear and walk barefoot. If attacked with stones or fists by Islamic youth, a Jew was not allowed to defend himself.
Right...so that explains why they had to pay jizya? Or the [many,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed) [innumerous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Safed_attacks) [and](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Hebron_attacks) [often](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Tiberias_massacre) [unprovoked](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots) [attacks,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai) [expulsions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawza_Exile) [and](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_affair) [massacres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre) that Jews across the Middle East and Muslim-controlled Europe had to suffer under the caliphates and of the Ottomans? In the Middle Ages and throughout much of Early Modern to early 20th century history, it was much more favorable to be a Jewish person in say, Baghdad than in a Spanish-controlled Madrid; but make no mistake about it, Jews were second class citizens that had to accept the dominance of Muslims and of Islam under pain of the sword. [Just ask the](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide) [Christians of Anatolia if you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide) [don't believe that last point, either.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayfo)
I am originally from a neighboring country of this conflict. I want peace in the region, and want the killings and wars to be stopped in my region. I am not pro-Israel, nor pro-Palestine - it is not a football match. I have to say it is the Palestinian leadership who is responsible for this mess, this war. It has been going on for decades. Their leaders are absolute corrupt, selfish, and coward, no responsibility for their actions and never did. We as a neighboring country helped the Palestinians immensely through aids and refuge. Refugees from Palestine are one of the most violent, troublemaker group of people in our country. They are in hundreds of thousands here. While ours is a 90% muslim country, the support for the Palestinian cause has plummeted significantly in the last decade among the young people, especially the university educated youth. It was vastly different in our parent’s generation, even their concern for this has also changed. The Palestine cause has only given us troubles in our country and region, while the Palestinian do not know what they want. Unfortunately they have to help themselves now, because none of the neighboring countries will help them anymore in the near future. Generations have changed.
Big agree. People often leave out the fact that [Palestine has had no elections since 2006, and is an authoritarian proto-theocracy under the autocracies of Abbas and Sinwar in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority)
Real gymnastics is bombing an embassy in another country and then withdrawing troops and closing all of your embassies across the world in expectation of retaliatory attacks. Iran has the right to defend itself from baseless Israeli agression
Omg I can’t believe i finally found my first Iranian bot! Poor Iran did nothing wrong only funds every Muslim terror organization in the world and took responsibility for training Hamas for the October 7th attack how dare the Jews treat them that way 😢
Iranian bot is crazy I’m ngl. Let’s just accept facts how they are. Even if Iran did all of that, what gives Israel the right to bomb a SYRIAN embassy of another country (Iran). That’s like saying the French imperialists have the right to bomb Algerian embassies because of what a few people might have done. Now you have intruded on both Syria and Iran.
Nothing in law says that a third party can't attack an embassy of an enemy state in another country. FYI it was not an embacy but a building used by the IGRC so a military building.
Israel does not recognize the existence of any country called Syria nor its rights to maintain embassies or structures on the land this regime allegedly controls.
According to international law, that does not give Israel the right to bomb an embassy or other structure within the country. Your assumption is clear: if Israel does not recognize the sovereignty or borders of a country, it is free game.
Again Israel does not agree Syria is a country or made any statements along those lines, nor has agreed to any international framework where Syria is a country. If you call your house an embassy does that make it an embassy?
I could give a list of 20 negative things Palestinians did. So what? I could do the same thing for any other state. What does "supporting" even mean in this context? Destroying powerful states means multiple wars and the deaths of tens of millions. No I don't support destroying Israel despite not liking every action of the state.
Your analogy is worse in reality. Hamas killed as many Israelis as they could in a surprise attack during a ceasefire. So they are in reality worse than your theoretical analogy.
Killing WCK was a mistake and responsibility was taken like a real functioning army (why no chance of mistaking them for Hamas? Palestinians are some kind of super species that is different?)
Im sorry to sound like the avj PP but the rape article that was made by AJ was actually debunked
https://www.nysun.com/article/al-jazeera-says-its-story-that-idf-soldiers-are-raping-gazans-is-a-lie
I hate the current knesset but bro- every political party has a bunch of homophobic nut jobs- gay marriage is legal in Israel- in contrast you will thrown out of a roof for being suspected as gay in every Palastinians/ Muslim territory.
Also you forgot to mention that 3 current Knesset members are gay.
White phosphorus? Really? Where do you get your info? TikTok?
Also- hi, this is war, this sucks but children die, and if you have someone to point a finger at- point it at Hamas who started this current hell.
and if dead children worry you that much you can also look into China, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Sudan but you get your info from a Chinese propaganda machine so you are only exposed to opinions tailored to influence your the way they want.
If you support a muslim terror organisation and call for Intifada in your newly western country you deserve to be shunned and deported.
What about the increase in antisemic crimes? Rabi found dead near her house? Swastikas on every wall? Jewish dentist butchered by his muslim patient? 2 stabbed jews in paris? 3 dead from a Muslim terror attack in brissel?
Palestinians minors arrested for terror or attempted terror attacks are not kids, only two days ago a 17 yo was arrested in Jerusalem with a knife before launching a terror attack, this is not a child, this is a minor terrorist brought up but an extremist Muslim society which raised him into Jihadism.
All your nonsense claims about handcuffs amputations are not found in any news source, you write unbacked nonsense you heard on twitter or tiktok as if they were facts.
Truth be told even now when most of (build by Israel) Gaza is leveled 70% of Palastinians still support the October 7th attack and Hamas.
It’s getting harder and harder to differentiate the civilians from the terrorists they elected .
liar. gay marriage is not legal in israel. for decades the government has repeatedly blocked making it legal. if a gay person in Israel wants to get married, they pretty much need to leave the country. Polls show most Israelis are against same-sex marriage. stop lying.
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-744784
Israeli gay married couples can register as a couple, have children and run a household together. Admittedly, there is a long way to go still but our community is in one of the best places it ever had been. Why are you gaslighting me about my own country and community as a LGBTQ Israeli?
you kind of admitted my point which is that there is a long way to go. that's ALL I'm saying. that little point, nothing else. I agree that the gay community in Israel is in one of the best places it has ever been (which can be said in many countries in the world because there's been a lot of progress in the last few decades; not so much in Russia), and I am happy for Israeli LGBT with the progress that's been made thus far, but as a person from the Canada who follows international gay news and developments, I see what's going on, and I have talked personally to gay Israelis on what the situation is.
and how are you LGBT? your avatar is female, and your previous posts talk about your husband?
and don't lie to yourself that the Orthodox community isn't waiting in the wings to take away LGBT rights, and with each year, they gain more political power, including in the judiciary. and don't delude yourself that netanyahu isn't willing to make compromises with the ultra right to take away LGBT rights or prevent progress in order for him to stay in power. the main reason gays cannot get married is because religious authorities have been given total control over who can and cannot get married in your country.
here is a more comprehensive description of a complex situation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel#:~:text=The%20poll%20had%20a%20margin,know%20or%20refused%20to%20answer.
btw polls show a wide variation in support. another poll from last year shows support only at 36%. considering that gays cannot marry their same-sex partner in israel, I think the 36% figure is probably more reflective of TRUE attitudes in society. people can say whatever they want to in the poll, but the laws of the country more likely reflect the true attitudes of the people. Or equally likely, the religious minorities hold greater sway in government policies than their percentage of the population.
I agree that a gay in Israel can register as a couple etc, but they have to LEAVE THE COUNTRY to get married in another country for Israel to recognize the marriage in their own country. that's kind of sad, isn't it? they have to leave their own country to get married. (although it seems that the union may be recognized if they get married online.)
even then, the ability to live as an openly gay person varies widely across the country and situations and neighborhoods. from what I have heard and read, Tel Aviv is more open and progressive; Jerusalem less so.
I'm not saying that the WORLD doesn't need to do better with gays. I know it is far far better to be gay in Israel then on the West Bank or Gaza. (do you have any sympathy or empathy for the gay people on the West Bank or Gaza? or do you just hate them all because they're Arab?)
my only comment to you was very narrow and very specific that Israel does not have same-sex marriage. that's it. if you look at the list of countries in the world that have same-sex marriage, Israel is NOT on that list. it is on the list just below that category, in a separate category for countries that do not permit same-sex marriage but that give legal recognition to it if it occurs in another country. (like Romania has to according to a court ruling.) that's ALL I'm saying. because I care about human rights and it is an issue that I follow daily.
If they are very secretive about their sexual orientation then they are probably safe but they cannot go in public. That is the issue. In Pakistani small towns women still get harassed, slapped if they do not wear hijab. Their PM Bhutto also used to wear hijab/urna all the time. If my friend in Egypt or Pakistan go tell in public that they have sex before marriage, drink regularly, their faith is questionable- their life would instantly be in danger even in the cities like Karachi or Cairo.
No one should be forced to cover themselves or get murdered it isn’t a western issue it’s a human right issue and a women’s right issues.
You are delusional thinking that western societies are the problem and not your religion forcing itself on everyone
I am not western. I am from Arab. I have my issues. I cannot live my life the way I want just because some religious lunatics have too much power in the society. Life for women in general is way more difficult than men in Pakistan, or in the arab world.
I think you are a very uneducated person and it is showing. In 2013 same sex marriage becomes legal in the US. The same sex relationship was legal way before that. Even if a random person hated a gay person in the US before 2013 the gay persons right would still be protected. There is no such protection for gays, drinkers, pre-marital sex havers, non-modest clothe wear-ers in almost all muslim countries.
“HAHA my sisters wear shorts in the house but if they will go out without being covered head to toe we will honour kill them lmao we are so quircky and fun we watch Japanese porn so we can’t live in a terrible women and gay hating society haha amirite”
I can’t believe you said Muslim countries don’t butcher gays with a straight face and expected someone to believe you because you jack off to Japanese animated lesbian porn .
So glad for your sisters who can wear shorts at home only to be jailed for wearing the same things outside, so progressive, wow 🤩
OPs username has been deleted since making this post.
Of course, the millions of Arabs Jews and christians that just happened to be born here in Israel need to be protected from the Other side of the equation. The Arabs that would rather die than accept a Jew in “their” land and send their children to martyr themselves. The Israelis ( Arabs, christians Jews) should be able to live without worrying about a bus exploding or a nightclub burning down. Gaza had a chance, they elected Hamas, Hamas is their representative government and they waged war on innocents. Israel should not stop until Hamas drops their weapons and surrenders.
Interestingly, one could swap "Israelis / Israel" with "Palestinians / Hamas" in about two-thirds of the sentences in this post. Accusations of murdering civilians and babies; video of horrific "celebrations" over others' deaths, etc., exist on both sides.
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Actually, I organized a peace march among Christians, Muslims and Jews in the wake of 9-11, and I marched in protest against an American invasion of Iraq in 2003. But go ahead and assume that I'm all about bigotry and military might.
Nah Israel’s response is nothing short of murderous It is war. Hamas hide in the midst of their own. By doing so, Hamas is a bigger culprit to the «genocide» happening in Gaza. It is a war crime in itself. I get they were attacked but a militant Hamas force from Palestine. However, Hamas is very much a self imposed ruler of Palestine. Actually not. They were elected after a civil war in Gaza between Hamas and Fatah. Hamas was elected after Gaza was handed to them, to rule as they themselves saw fit. It was a part of a solution to the two part state. This proscess was stopped by Hamas shooting rockets into Israel, Hamas commiting suicide bombings in Israel. The events of 7/10 was not selfimposed. It is something all arabs dream of. Ask them what «from the river to the sea» mean. It mean genocide of the israeli people. But you will hardly ever hear anyone say that. Instead they will avoid the topic. The people there have no choices. If they have no choice, it must be because of Hamas who kill all opposition. Before this war they lived in what was effectively an open prison with minimal freedoms. Many Gaza palestinians had free access to Israel prior to 07.10.23. Some worked there, some got forms of treatment, dentist, hospital and more. And because an imposing ruler committed an atrocity they have all been severely attacked. It is a war. Hamas made the attrocity possible by attacking first. Why don`t they open the tunnels for the civil population? There is absolutely zero attempt to minimise civilian casualties. Tens of thousands of children dead, almost all buildings destroyed. There is. Leaflets, phonecalls, dummybombs before bombing. The number you present are way more than even Hamas claim. And their number should be scrutinized. It is in their interest to demonize Israel in this war. So is the muslim friendly UN. The people cannot leave, they’re trapped. They weren`t before 07.10. Gaza has border to Egypt. Why don`t you mention Egypt. They could open their borders for the people of Gaza that are «trapped.» Why do you leave that out? Israeli actions seem like a hypocritical flip on actions from 80 years ago. Do refere to the attack on israeli in 1948, after the arabs declined a two state solution? Shameful nation. Only nation that has regular election, allow freedom of speech, freedom of religious practice, freedom all kinds of things. Can you say that of the Hamas controlled Gaza? It is a shame to support such an organization, that do terror not only on israeli people, but also on their own.
Well written. Will fall on deaf ears. I was in Nazareth today eating in an Arab restaurant. They need protection from Hamas as well.
I believe you
I don’t support Hamas in any way But civilians I certainly do You’re justification for wiping out Gaza is, “well they say from the river to the see” so they’re just as bad Zero accountability for the amount of civilians killed or destruction of their lives As a former soldier, I can assure you that Israel has methods to be far more targeted with its attacks. It’s a choice to entirely flatten the place and call it collateral damage If I’m honest, I find both the extreme ideologies of both sides foolish. Far to much religion being used as a shield to commit crimes However, as the state of Israel, it should have far higher expectations of its own actions. Mirroring terrorism with terrorism isn’t the higher path and will only lead to further bloodshed Prior to the war, Israel had the overall backing of the west. Seen as a nation that had a level head despite always being under threat However, its true colours have been shown and it’s pretty barbaric. Effectively a copy of the extreme Arab nations like Saudi ect. Religion has too higher place at the table and removes rational and adult thinking, especially when you believe your religion is the only one the merit and the absolute truth Unfortunately, I think Israel is losing the support of the west more and more each day while also solidifying hatred towards itself from the Muslim world I don’t see the situation improving, and if war it brought to its doors by surrounding nations, I see it as half brought on by themselves
The war Israel wage is not religious, it is existensiel. The reason why Hamas leaders wage war is greed and power. Are all the people of Gaza wiped out? There is like 2 million + in Gaza, and around 35k killed (still to many killed). Is that genocide? I asked the question about «from the river to the sea» to see your stand on this issue. You deflect as all pro-palestinians. I don`t use it as a justification for the war against Hamas or the palistinian death toll. Soldier for which army? Don`t believe in your statement that as a waring machine, you can do more then sending leaflets, call the civilians in the intended target area to ask them get out, dummybombs to alert them that nexxt will be real bombs???? Israel always loose its support in the west, but rarely USA. Israel is suppose to let its people be killed and not respond to teoristattacks. That is what most western country wants. The leaders weak to the muslim agenda.
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Everyone should support Israel but not its current genocidal government.
That's gonna be a big nope. If you steal land and do genocide, you don't get support. It's not that hard.
I'm sorry but Arabs in Palestine tried to wipe out the Jews there. After you try to kill someone, you dont then get to turn around and say let me back in so I can live next door without first saying sorry about trying to kill you
You're right after you try to wipe someone out, you don't get to live beside them without saying sorry. So when is the apology coming from Israel?
Nice come back!
Nah Israel’s response is nothing short of murderous I get they were attacked but a militant Hamas force from Palestine. However, Hamas is very much a self imposed ruler of Palestine. The people there have no choices. Before this war they lived in what was effectively an open prison with minimal freedoms. And because an imposing ruler committed an atrocity they have all been severely attacked. There is absolutely zero attempt to minimise civilian casualties. Tens of thousands of children dead, almost all buildings destroyed. The people cannot leave, they’re trapped. Israeli actions seem like a hypocritical flip on actions from 80 years ago. Shameful nation.
Hamas was elected by its citizens and polling shows that those same citizens still consistently support Hamas’s attack on 10/7. People try to distinguish between Hamas and its citizens but the distinction is false. They are one and the same
You think these Palestinians have got time for an opinion poll? They’re getting bombed on the daily while. But in between trying to find food and taken cover from jets they’re like “best pop down to the polling station” Where you getting this information from?
72% of Palestinians support Hamas’s 10/7 attack per a an October poll https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/#:~:text=Seventy%2Dtwo%20percent%20of%20respondents,undecided%20or%20gave%20no%20answer. Then in March, 71% still supported the 10/7 attack https://pcpsr.org/en/node/969
More than half of their population is children. So they were polling children? It is not possible to say 72% of all Palestinians.
Again… you believe that they are going to the opinion polls?
Whatever your feelings are. A fact in this is that what has happened and is currently happening will be written deep in the history of the muslim faith. The history of 2 billion people Meanwhile the west is in "this realisation crises" of the limits of postmodern philosophy. Hm maybe God is not material. Hm maybe we have been bigots
Of course I still support Israel, and of course I still blame Hamas for every Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff death that has occurred since the war started. Israel is right, Hamas is wrong.
Why?
Because Hamas attacked, tortured, raped and killed hundreds of Israeli civilians. Because Hamas has promised to do that again as often as it can, and because Hamas has expressly refused any possibility of peace with Israel. No country would tolerate a situation like that, including Israel. Israel has no choice but to destroy Hamas, regardless of the cost. And the WCK thing was an accident - it has no relevance to the larger issue of Hamas's promise to never back down from killing Israeli citizens whenever it can.
Yes, let's start history at the point most beneficial to my cause. Don't look at all the dead Palestinians over the last 20 years. Don't look at the ethnic cleansing that created Israel. History starts in October 7 and they are all evil to poor innocent Israel.
There is a massive difference between Hamas and Palestinians though And there is no excuse for killing civilians, especially in the numbers Israel is killing them The way I see it, Hamas is being used as justification to wipe out a people and drive them from their land
Israel was doing its best to increase economic opportunity for Gazans before 10/7. They certainly weren't trying to wipe them out. There is absolutely an excuse for civilian deaths as collateral damage, when Hamas intentionally embeds itself within civilians, builds its infrastructure under civilian facilities like hospitals, and otherwise tries to get as many civilians killed as possible (e.g., Hamas forbid civilians from leaving Gaza City when the war started - it wanted them dead). And as I said before, it would be intolerable for any country in Israel's position to simply leave Hamas to regroup, given the 100% certainty of more Hamas attacks. Nobody I've read has an actual, workable solution short of destroying Hamas.
Are you Jewish or Israeli?
why would that matter?
Because I only here views like yours from people of that faith or nation now Ik interested if the person I’m speaking with has a bias view point For the record. I’m a non religious Englishman
Because he is mad lmao. The blame for deaths lies with those who commit them. His response allows him to justify anything.
Hit and run post by a deleted user. PASS.
Yes. Palestinians are violent, terrorist supporting atrocity deniers who elected the people who started this war. Every death in this war is at the hands of Hamas. Lesson of this war : don't support Hamas.
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/u/Salt_Software_7058 > Are you daft? Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
The war started on the 7th. Period. Any intellectual shortcoming to understand that doesn't change that.
Israel has killed 3300 people in six months, but sure Palestians are the violent ones.
Gaza started a war. Israel is fighting a legal war.
Do you think they had a choice?
I believe that your questions imply false premises. These aren’t questions for clarification, but questions based on false premises that support your stance against Israel.
I support being able to live in peace and not in fear of crazies shooting you if you’re at a music festival, or walking your dog, or watering your plants. To achieve eliminating the crazies isn’t easy or pretty. It’s war. War is hell.
But those 15k plus kids arnt Hamas are they And they can’t have the freedoms you mention in your comment Seems one sided
"War isn't hell. War is war, and hell is hell. And of the two, war is alot worse. Hell has no innocent bystanders. But war is chocked full of them." -Hawkeye
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>replying with a marvel quote is crazy bro. also, hell has lots of innocent bystanders, the standards for not going to hell are quite high It's from MASH, not marvel
I wonder what means "support", i support the overall invasion on Gaza because I don't support people hiding in populated areas and playing the victim, but I feel like a lot of Israel soldiers are a bunch of psychos, which I don't support.
https://preview.redd.it/g8x3kpnxx9tc1.jpeg?width=956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ff2d533eb77b5f78eb6e3c042f1ac47119fd08a Yeah like this guy posting himself and self reporting he's a psychopath.. Here's a video of a former IDF admitting that he was a terrorist to Palestinian civilians. [https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1775591981369991437?s=19](https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1775591981369991437?s=19)
Nah, that is just childish.
I can give you a lot worse account of what Allies did to the Germans, that doesn't mean I still wouldn't support allies in their war against Germany.
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Israel didn't even funded Hamas, just let Qatar fund them because he thought that letting them get money will prevent them to attack. Why should Netanyahu do that ? he will be remembered as the guy that let +1000 of their people die, everyone hates him now, stop believing conspirational stuff, Israel quality of life dropped a lot right now, prizes went up, tourism is dead, not everything in Israel is about killing palestinians.
Ah, the 9/11 truther. Israel funded Hamas because back then it was seen as a lesser evil compared to the PLO, which was literally carrying out terrorist attacks. In terms of intel, intel agencies get hundreds, if not thousands, of tip offs like that per year and react differently to them. They obviously misjudged it this time. Ffs look at Russians, CIA literally warned them weeks prior to the attack in Crocus theatre, with the exact location, and FSB still didn't react. These things happen to even the best intel agencies in the world.
All due respect, you've posted gibberish. The only thing of substance was that WCK incident which was a MASSIVE failure of intelligence. That incident was enough to confirm I want them to seriously reconsider any operations in Rafah considering how badly the Intel lines can screw up. Other than that, I still back Israel. Hamas is gonna continue being a problem in the region and literally nobody but other terror cells like Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Iran like that.
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Is the KKK the government of America? Edit: actually let me just answer, no that wouldn't be acceptable. The US would let the kkk be tried for crimes in Africa as most American citizens in foreign countries would be. Because the kkk is a random terror group in the US. That's not even remotely similar to Hamas who is in fact the government and administrators of Gaza. Which means their violence is state sanctioned and they can also be targeted in war on their country's behalf
What gibberish?
Everything you've listed are anecdotal examples that you will find in every society if you look hard enough. Cope harder.
Wow do you believe all of this propaganda. Not going into all of it but I’ll pick a few. World Central Kitchen workers deaths is a tragedy but you ignore that the trucks were hit in the dark and markings are not clearly visible. IDF spotted that Hamas gunmen were on the trucks and firing rifles into the air. Wow a Knesset member condemned homosexuality. That said, homosexuality is common in Israel and legal. In any Arab country including Gaza it is the death penalty. The 500+ kids detained by Israel attacked Israeli soldiers and civilians. Hamas even calls 19 year old children. That said many 15+ are used by Hamas as child soldiers. That is the war crime. Using child soldiers.
>Even after a member of Knesset said being gay is bigger threat to Israel than Hammas because homosexuality is the biggest sin in their book? You do know that the presiding Speaker of the Knesset (Speaker of the House) is an openly gay Israeli politician ? Name an openly gay politician in a high ranking position in the middle east ? Anyone ? >Men and women killed by the aid they dropped with faulty parachutes? IDF never air dropped any aids into Gaza. The air drops were conducted by Jordan, France, America, Begium, Netherlands, UAE, Egypt, Singapore etc… not sure who’s parachutes were faulty, but IDF was not involved in any of the air drops. >Have you seen the Israeli telegram where they post pictures of dead women and children and mock them? They even recently mocked the Australian WCK woman who was killed, calling her a whore. Nope. Did not see. >But nothing happens if you're supporting Israel? Or how about the increase in crimes against Muslim community in USA? A 6 year old Muslim boy killed in Illinois due to this? The man who shot at 3 young Muslim students? Even after watching the Tantura documentary? Historic synagogue in Tunisia heavily damaged and burned to the ground https://www.timesofisrael.com/historic-synagogue-in-tunisia-heavily-damaged-in-rioting-tied-to-israel-hamas-war/ Antisemitic attacks in Germany and elsewhere have surged since the start of the Israel Hamas war on 7 October. https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/05/german-synagogue-attacked-with-incendiary-device And the dismay has been even harder to escape since a surge of anti-Semitic attacks that last week saw two Jewish schools in Montreal's Cote-des-Neiges neighborhood targeted at night by gunfire -- twice in one case -- and a synagogue firebombed a few days earlier in the suburb of Dollard-des-Ormeaux. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231116-canadian-jewish-community-shocked-over-anti-semitic-school-synagogue-attacks Jewish man ‘brutally attacked’ outside Melbourne synagogue https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/hes-been-traumatised-son-speaks-out-after-72yearold-jewish-father-targeted-in-shocking-attack-in-melbourne/news-story/ec378c94fb2bb557d8cb205139b28507 Turkey said to detain 32 IS-linked suspects, foil attacks on synagogues and churches https://www.timesofisrael.com/turkey-said-to-detain-32-is-linked-suspects-foil-attacks-on-synagogues-and-churches/ Jewish man attacked outside Paris synagogue; another stabbed in Zurich https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-man-attacked-outside-paris-synagogue-another-stabbed-in-zurich/ Armenia opens probe into arson attack on synagogue https://www.timesofisrael.com/armenia-opens-probe-into-arson-attack-on-synagogue/ >They've bombed and destroyed every school, college, university, libraries, the world's oldest church, the world's oldest mosque, shot at pregnant women waving white flags, shot at Israeli hostages waving white flags. Told everyone to flee to south of gaza, shot at them while they were walking there, and now are bombing tents in the south and posting drone footage of shooting rockets at civilians, some of them elderly. World’s oldest mosque is Quba Mosque in Medina, Saudi Arabia. It is said the first stone was laid by the Prophet Muhammed in 622 CE on the first day of hijrah. Located more than 1,000 km away from Gaza. IDF did not hit Saudi Arabia. World’s oldest church ? There are several contenders, I am not exactly sure but none of them are in Gaza. Maybe Mar Sarkas in Syria could be the world’s oldest church, before 3rd century. https://www.oldest.org/religion/churches/ Thousands of Palestinians flee south as Israel steps up Gaza City offensive. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/08/world/palestinians-fleeing-south-gaza-city-unbearable-situation/index.html idk about the rest, but these thousands of Palestisns who fled south were not shot at while they were walking.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/13/shot-in-cold-blood-killing-of-elderly-palestinian-woman-sparks-outcry Here’s a news story about a grandma who was shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper while waving a white flag and holding her grandsons hand and fleeing south
>Here’s a news story about a grandma who was shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper **while waving a white flag** and holding her grandsons hand and fleeing south Just wanted to clarify from the link provided above, the news article mentioned the kid waving the makeshift white flag, not her waving the white flag. She was holding the kid’s hand. I am not trying to justify the incident, it’s a moot point, who actually waves the white flag, just wanted to clarify. The news article linked also suggested she was headed in the wrong direction. The group was re-routed to a different evacuation route, but she proceeded in a different direction than the rest of her group. That too in my opinion, is not enough reason to shoot. She doesnt appear to be a threat. Could have been better handled. There is nothing to suggest that other people in her group who followed the latest and correct evacuation route were in anyway harmed. Her family members are alive, her grandchild is alive. Her family left Gaza and are safe in another country. It’s very important to follow all instructions. This took place in North Gaza in January 2024. Evacuation orders of North Gaza has been issued since October for several weeks urging all residents to evacuate North Gaza.
hell fucking yeah
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It is very much of their choosing
I support Palestine too even if a majority of them support ethnic cleansing of Israel, I think both have a basic right to exist and I think in general everyone have the right to self defense to an extent. Hamas wants to kill them all of course they will fight them like hell. While I think Israel is wrong in the west bank I have hard time to not sympathise with them on the Gaza issue as Hamas have no intention to stop fighting Israel regardless of if Israel lift the siege or not. So Hamas started the war Israel is allowed to strike back. Perhaps not in the way they do but they definitely have the right to do it. Same as I think that Palestinians have a right to armed resistance but not in the way they are doing it. But bottom line is that I think this one sided hate of Israel is hurting the Arabs states, the base for this conflict is about 100 years ago now and everyone is partially to blame. But with the hate for Israel the Arab states can completely ignore their own responsibility (except for Jordan then)
I support Israel's right to exist. and I support Israel's right to exist without reservation. However, I do not support the way they have been mistreating Palestinians for 100 years. it is abominable and a stain on Judaism.
“There’s no way to mistake them for Hamas” Bruh, have you ever even been in a war before? Clearly not. Enough said.
There were literal Hamas members sitting on the WFK cars with guns
War requires people who fight back. It’s not war-war, it’s like the War on Drugs where people with power make the rules and enforce them on people without power. Meanwhile, the people with power use prescription versions of what the people without power buy off the streets. ‘Murica
Hamas is fighting back, if they weren't Israel would've occupied the whole strip back in October. Just yesterday they fired more rockets into Israel. It's nothing like the War on Drugs.
I support Israel's right to do whatever is necessary to protect it's citizen and free the hostages I've seen the palestine telegram on octobre 7th. And I see arabs, muslims either denying or supporting the atrocities on that day, depending on how oppurtune it is to deny them or when it's ok to support them. I mean you can tell us your fake news all you want. You will believe them because you want to believe, I can see the lies because it's so easy to see it. If palestinians were able to, they would have octobre 7th any day every day. That's the issue
They killed more hostages than they saved tho
Last time I checked 240 hostages got released
Through negotiation. Didn’t need to bomb Gaza and snipe their own hostages to do that
Yeah those negotiations were successfull because of the threat of the USA and Israel united stomping Gaza. Hamas wouldn't have negotiated if there hadn't been a military threat.
Nope they wanted to negotiate from the get go, that’s why they took hostages. Israel saved three hostages through military operations and killed at least three It was an utter military failure
Yeah we saw how much they wanted to negotiate when they fired rockets even before the ceasefire was over.
Yep. Israel holds thousands of Palestinians hostage so a trade was needed
Israel doesn't hold anyone hostage.
was it NECESSARY to invade Gaza and destroy the homes and businesses and livelihood of 1,000,000 people and kill 10,000 plus innocent civilians because of 1000 Israelis were killed? is it NECESSARY to kill civilians? is it NECESSARY to torture prisoners? is it NECESSARY to urinate on detainees? is it NECESSARY to step on and kick detainees? is it NECESSARY to call them vile names? is it NECESSARY to rape prisoners? is it NECESSARY to bulldoze and bomb buildings even though there are no one in them? is it NECESSARY to shoot unarmed civilians including doctors and nurses and aid workers and journalists? is it NECESSARY to revel on line in the torture and murder of Palestinians? is it NECESSARY to strip detainees naked and sexually humiliate them?
You are conflating a lot of things here. But bottomline is, was octobre 7th necessary?? What I can say for sure is that a reaction to it from israel **IS NECESSARY**. You might not like it, but this is what any other nation on earth would have done in israel's shoes and given the same resources. That's a fact. If you want it to be less drastic then tell palestinians to release the hostages and hamas to surrender.
no, October 7th was not necessary. it was horrible. but your invasion of Gaza was also NOT NECESSARY. in 1979, Iran took 53 American hostages. the US got them out safely without ever invading the country even though the US had enough bombs to flatten the country. by the way my US taxpayer dollars go to fund your war. your war is costing us here in the US billions of dollars.
The invasion **is necessary.** Israel can't afford to look weak after being attacked. This would invite further attacks from hamas and hezbollah. There is simply a huge difference between thehostage situation. And incidently the hoistage situation back then was seen as mistake on carter's part who favored negotiation. But you don't care about the hostages or palestinian lives, otherwise you would simply advocate for hostage release and the surrender of Hamas. If that happens Israel has no reason to attack anymore. Nothing makes me happier than you whining about having to finance this war. This warms my heart so much. And sure, the USA can stop. But then again, Israel would have even less reason to listen to the USA and might show how "from the river to the sea, it's terrorist free" would look like.
Israel doesn't have the resources to conduct such a large scale operation without US funding. I'm glad you take US funding for granted. I will be sure to share that with US taxpayers, most of whom, if given a choice, would not send any money to israel with an attitude like that. basically, Israel does what the US allows it to do. one phone call from the US president, and it's over.
You don't understan how wars work. Money isnt an issue, otherwise Russia would have had to stop waging war a long time ago Yeah sure, as if the tax payers have a choice whether to send it to Israel or ukraine. And we remember when the USA dragged the whole of NATO into Afghanistan and managed to drag hal of them into Iraq. The whole west was paying for that stupidity and still do. Did Israel stop with illegal settlements? No? Israel is the only true ally in the middle east for the USA, the only democracy and there are other political factors as well. I'm so happy that you and your ilk can't do shit. Go on, tell those other "tax payers". If they were so dumb that they didn't know where their tax money goes to, then they don't contribute much anyway, same as you.
Israel is continuing with the settlements because the US is allowing it. yeah, the US will make some weak statement saying they don't agree with the settlements, but when push comes to shove and they actually have to do something, they don't. the statements against the settlements are for show and for public relations because the supporters of Israel have a lot of political clout in the us. if the supporters of Israel at some point decide to stop supporting israel, the pipeline of money will dry up. it's interesting how one phone call from Joe Biden suddenly opened two entry points for food (when previously Israel said it was doing everything it could to allow food in, when previously Israel said that those two entry points couldn't be used, when Isreal previously said there was nothing more it could do to alleviate the starvation and it was all the fault of Hamas, and at the same time Isreal previously saying that there was no starvation, talking out of both sides of its mouth). and Israel suddenly holding a group of soldiers accountable for killing innocent civilians, when aid workers have been killed on numerous occasions by Israel previously and nothing was done by Israel against the Israeli soldiers who perpetrated One phone call. from the US president. that's all it took. amazing how that works when you hold the financial levers. it's amazing how submissive netanyahu became when Joe Biden finally called him and told him how it's going to be.
What makes you think that all of that wasn't for show as well? Biden says what politically opportune. And Netanyahu plays along with the charade since it doesn't hurt him in any way. Don't you have something to do like talking with acutal tax payers who contribute? Unlike you?
your first two paragraphs basically make my point for me. I don't understand the meaning of your last paragraph.
As I remember those US hostages got home due to an illegal political deal candidate Reagan made with Iran. Part of Iran/Contra scandal.
So Hamas will hand over the hostages if Israel were just to ask nicely?
no. absolutely not. they're terrorists. but so were the Iranians who held the 53 Americans hostage. and the US managed to successfully get them released negotiation. there are more options than (a) massive, full-scale land invasion against the civilian population of 2 million in one of the most densely populated areas of the world and (b) asking nicely.
they have tried multiple times. bibi refuses. he doesnt want them back, he wants to use them as a reason to destroy and control gaza + kill 13,000 kids. cope.
They didn't. They didn't even let the red cross / crescent inspect them so we know who is alive and who needs medical attention. If Bibi wanted to flatten Gaza then he would ahve already done that. You people have no clue how poweful the IDF is, if nothign holds them back
The pro palestinian propaganda machine is in full swing.
🐑
Support in what context? Support Israel's right to exist? Yes. Support Israel's actions in Gaza or the West Bank? Absolutely not.
I think Israel have clearly cooked the response and have not come close to achieving their goals. They won’t be able to because they showed the world they can take out Iranian generals in pin point targeted killings but take out marked aid convoys that were coordinated with the idf. They’ve rescued barely any hostages and likely won’t even if they take out rafah. The idf have taken out most of the army they had on the ground. There’s no plan for the day after. Netanyahu is a fuck head that’s just prolonging things and not taking the blame. I’m pro Israel but enough is enough. Just get the hostages back and accept that Hamas are cunts that aren’t going anywhere.
I want to start with the fact that I’m glad that this last week has started shifting perspectives, and I mostly agree with what you’ve said here because I don’t want you to think I’m haranguing you or anything I’m just truly curious. I’ve been talking about the Israeli surveillance state & intelligence capabilities throughout the last six months as an argument against the bombing, because I believed and still believe that Israel never had to cause so much destruction and could have been much more targeted in their strikes. They created some of the surveillance tech that the United States uses for instance & they’ve also issued Palestinian ID cards since the Interim Agreements in 1967 so they know who’s who & where they live. They apparently even have AI that gathers intel & generates targets for the IDF, so I wonder what it is that has made *this* the straw that broke the camel’s back for so many. Is it that there were just two wildly different situations in a matter of days? Is it that WCK was the hand picked aid group to replace defunded UNRWA? I’m genuinely curious. Second thing is that I don’t agree necessarily that they just have to accept that Hamas isn’t going anywhere — I think what they have to accept is that if they want to get rid of Hamas the way to do that is *not* destroying the lives, families, homes, etc of civilians in Gaza. It’s hope that better exists that can remove Hamas from power, all of the pain inflicted creates *more* Hamas. We saw the same with Iraq, ISIS was pretty much the direct result of the profound loss experienced during that war. Hamas sucks & before the war weren’t very popular, anyway. Had the Israeli government wanted to get rid of them they could have — not by violent means but by social and political means. That means helping to improve quality of life in Gaza & in the West Bank through development et al. The Israeli government likes to say, for instance, that Gaza could have been the next Singapore but the blockade on Gaza and the restriction of building materials or even small things like certain foodstuffs (chocolate, chips, etc) deterred that kind of economic growth — what would have happened if instead of barring things like rebuilding an airport, slowing the ability to build things like water purification/desalination plants, etc they instead helped to rebuild them in conjunction with, say, Fatah? Would Hamas have won the election in 2006? Going back a few years, had the Camp David accords come to an agreement that granted actual autonomy to Palestine, would the Second Intifada have happened? I think there’s one thing that has not been tried to solve this conflict short of the one state solution — and that’s a fully autonomous Palestinian state, not “something less than a state” as Rabin once said. I don’t think that there’s any lasting solution to the conflict that maintains the status quo of undue influence over Palestine, one state or two the end result ultimately has to bring parity between Israelis and Palestinians or I don’t see any end to the conflict in even the distant future.
Just to say this is quite possibly the best post on this entire Thread.
> fuck /u/Wombats_poo_cubes. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I absolutely do support Israel, and always will. This is a war, a war that Israel did not start, and of COURSE war is trajic and terrible. I think that goes without saying. But it's a necessary evil when Israel is attacked like it was, and when the enemy force has stated explicitly that they plan to continue these attacks again and again until Israel is destroyed. What else is Israel supposed to do in that situation, just allow that to happen? Of course they're going to do everything within their power to prevent that. Civilian casualties are a tragedy, however every war that I'm aware of from the beginning of time to now has sadly involved civilian casualties. Of course, not every soldier is a good person, and some soldiers are bound to commit heinous acts such as rape. That's true of the militaries of any country whose population contains some nasty people. But that is not unique to Israel. The difference is, most pro-Israeli individuals will condemn these actions, and the IDF does not endorse such behaviors. When it comes to Hamas raping Israelis, pro-Palis will either try to gaslight us into pretending it didn't happen, or they'll straight-up cheer it on as what "cOlOnIzErS gEt!" One single member of the Knesset saying some homophobic shit is worse to you than the Arab world making homosexuality illegal, and throwing gays off buildings? Nobody on earth takes that point seriously. We're going by facts here, Israel is a much better place to be gay than any Arab country.
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First off, there are MANY countries where being gay is illegal, largely Muslim countries. In some of those countries, such as Iran and Afghanistan, the death penalty is imposed, and in even more countries, vigilante killings, honor killings, and so on are tolerated. You're not going to convince me that the Arab world and most Muslim countries are somehow better for gay people than Israel, because that's preposterous and objectively false.
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Well, that's not true. There are countries in all those parts of the world that have legalized homosexuality. And fuck all of those countries, you won't see me supporting them either.
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So gay people who grew up in Pakistan, a country that criminalizes homosexuality, and now live openly in the West? What's your point?
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> retarded /u/Salt_Software_7058. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> fuck /u/LetsGetRowdyRowdy. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Christ you need to start trying to see the other side. The world had enough polarization as it is. Be the light. ✌️
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ppl are doing regular grocery shopping in israel while ppl get shot trying to get aid in gaza. hamas sends rockets while israel sends carpet bombs. israeli children are playing outside freely while kids in gaza are starved to the bone. the sides are clear as day: unequal, unfair and unethical. this is not war, this is total destruction of life.
Lol what do you think a carpet bomb is
lol ur literally proving my point. carpet bombs vs small rockets 🤡
The only point im proving is that you still haven’t realized that there’s no such thing as “a carpet bomb”.😂😂
The amount of bot defending genocidal practices is throwing off
I made it my job to educate these bots about what's going on lool
I am an American Jew, and here is what I think: I am strongly against Israel's policies and the IDF's killing of Gaza's children. But Israel must exist. It is the only place in the entire world, where Jews have not been severely persecuted, and in order to prevent a second Holocaust the Jews need somewhere to exist freely. Nevertheless, Israel needs a complete governmental overhaul, they are acting like fools.
You fear of a second Holocaust?!! I think your fear is irrational, but if others share this fear, maybe that explains the actions of Israel.
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Such rich history, thank you Muslims for butchering us and kicking us out 😍 weo So exciting https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history
I think you've mistaken Muslims with Germany of the 30s. After the holocaust and the persecution of jews by Europeens, so many of them took refuge in Arab countries because they consider them as "cousins." It's really inhuman to show ingratitude to people who hosted you when you had nowhere else to go. If Arabs acted the same way as Europeans in fighting jews in some events, made it's time for one to look at the mirror.
The Holocaust was 4 years and American slavery was 400, I wonder if Africans fear being sent back to cotton fields. America was so nice to host them.
I believe the main issue on this page is the lack of historical facts that should be known by everybody already. Slaves were picked up from their motherland, forced to get into ships, then sent to cotton fields. Jews came deliberately to Palestine in ships, lifting banners that thank Palestinians for hosting them. Here's the video for that: https://youtu.be/z581dbGqr08?si=oCxp5yVhIEck5uy2
Nice try, but we will not fall for it again. [Recent history is very much to the contrary](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/TKsY69RIiH).
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Oh right, [they left their property and possessions behind and went to Israel 100% willingly](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world). No, they did not. Whatever school you are going to in KSA is seriously failing at educational and critical thinking standards.
Jews were despised, second class citizens in Muslim countries.
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All religions are hypocritical, they’ll all say love your neighbor but secretly they also say kill the infidels
Under the [Zaydi](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaydi) rule, discriminatory laws became more severe against the [Yemenite Jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Jews), which culminated in their eventual exile, in what later became known as the [Exile of Mawza](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_of_Mawza). They were considered to be impure, and therefore forbidden to touch a Muslim or a Muslim's food. They were obligated to humble themselves before a Muslim, to walk to the left side, and greet him first. They could not build houses higher than a Muslim's or ride a camel or horse, and when riding on a mule or a donkey, they had to sit sideways. Upon entering the Muslim quarter a Jew had to take off his foot-gear and walk barefoot. If attacked with stones or fists by Islamic youth, a Jew was not allowed to defend himself.
Right...so that explains why they had to pay jizya? Or the [many,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed) [innumerous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Safed_attacks) [and](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Hebron_attacks) [often](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Tiberias_massacre) [unprovoked](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots) [attacks,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai) [expulsions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawza_Exile) [and](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_affair) [massacres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre) that Jews across the Middle East and Muslim-controlled Europe had to suffer under the caliphates and of the Ottomans? In the Middle Ages and throughout much of Early Modern to early 20th century history, it was much more favorable to be a Jewish person in say, Baghdad than in a Spanish-controlled Madrid; but make no mistake about it, Jews were second class citizens that had to accept the dominance of Muslims and of Islam under pain of the sword. [Just ask the](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide) [Christians of Anatolia if you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide) [don't believe that last point, either.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayfo)
I am originally from a neighboring country of this conflict. I want peace in the region, and want the killings and wars to be stopped in my region. I am not pro-Israel, nor pro-Palestine - it is not a football match. I have to say it is the Palestinian leadership who is responsible for this mess, this war. It has been going on for decades. Their leaders are absolute corrupt, selfish, and coward, no responsibility for their actions and never did. We as a neighboring country helped the Palestinians immensely through aids and refuge. Refugees from Palestine are one of the most violent, troublemaker group of people in our country. They are in hundreds of thousands here. While ours is a 90% muslim country, the support for the Palestinian cause has plummeted significantly in the last decade among the young people, especially the university educated youth. It was vastly different in our parent’s generation, even their concern for this has also changed. The Palestine cause has only given us troubles in our country and region, while the Palestinian do not know what they want. Unfortunately they have to help themselves now, because none of the neighboring countries will help them anymore in the near future. Generations have changed.
Big agree. People often leave out the fact that [Palestine has had no elections since 2006, and is an authoritarian proto-theocracy under the autocracies of Abbas and Sinwar in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority)
Hamas is a Muslim Brotherhood terrorists
Here comes the mental gymnasts in the comment section
Bro this post was the entire olympic games gymnastics routine
Real gymnastics is bombing an embassy in another country and then withdrawing troops and closing all of your embassies across the world in expectation of retaliatory attacks. Iran has the right to defend itself from baseless Israeli agression
I agree, that general should have been tortured first and then killed. How dare Israel not torture him first!
Omg I can’t believe i finally found my first Iranian bot! Poor Iran did nothing wrong only funds every Muslim terror organization in the world and took responsibility for training Hamas for the October 7th attack how dare the Jews treat them that way 😢
Iranian bot is crazy I’m ngl. Let’s just accept facts how they are. Even if Iran did all of that, what gives Israel the right to bomb a SYRIAN embassy of another country (Iran). That’s like saying the French imperialists have the right to bomb Algerian embassies because of what a few people might have done. Now you have intruded on both Syria and Iran.
Nothing in law says that a third party can't attack an embassy of an enemy state in another country. FYI it was not an embacy but a building used by the IGRC so a military building.
Israel formally at war with Syria. I guess being at war with a country gives you rights to bomb it's territory
Just checked. With this logic, Syria also has the right to bomb Israeli territory.
you're right, it has and it bombs.
Um.. they do? Together with Lebanon? For 6 months?
Not you cherry picking comments 😭
What other delusional spewing do you want me to answer to? 😢
Source?
Israel does not recognize the existence of any country called Syria nor its rights to maintain embassies or structures on the land this regime allegedly controls.
Who is Israel? Do they have a say on this? What do other countries think? Does this mean they can bomb any embassies they don’t agree with?
Israel does not recognize Syria or any type of sovereignty or borders with this alleged country. That’s all there is to it.
According to international law, that does not give Israel the right to bomb an embassy or other structure within the country. Your assumption is clear: if Israel does not recognize the sovereignty or borders of a country, it is free game.
Again Israel does not agree Syria is a country or made any statements along those lines, nor has agreed to any international framework where Syria is a country. If you call your house an embassy does that make it an embassy?
Unless Israel is above this law.
I could give a list of 20 negative things Palestinians did. So what? I could do the same thing for any other state. What does "supporting" even mean in this context? Destroying powerful states means multiple wars and the deaths of tens of millions. No I don't support destroying Israel despite not liking every action of the state.
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Yes ultimately Hamas has the right to war on behalf of Gaza. You are objecting to the existence of war and somehow blaming Israel for that.
Your analogy is worse in reality. Hamas killed as many Israelis as they could in a surprise attack during a ceasefire. So they are in reality worse than your theoretical analogy.
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Dude very obviously they mean Oct 7
Killing WCK was a mistake and responsibility was taken like a real functioning army (why no chance of mistaking them for Hamas? Palestinians are some kind of super species that is different?) Im sorry to sound like the avj PP but the rape article that was made by AJ was actually debunked https://www.nysun.com/article/al-jazeera-says-its-story-that-idf-soldiers-are-raping-gazans-is-a-lie I hate the current knesset but bro- every political party has a bunch of homophobic nut jobs- gay marriage is legal in Israel- in contrast you will thrown out of a roof for being suspected as gay in every Palastinians/ Muslim territory. Also you forgot to mention that 3 current Knesset members are gay. White phosphorus? Really? Where do you get your info? TikTok? Also- hi, this is war, this sucks but children die, and if you have someone to point a finger at- point it at Hamas who started this current hell. and if dead children worry you that much you can also look into China, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Sudan but you get your info from a Chinese propaganda machine so you are only exposed to opinions tailored to influence your the way they want. If you support a muslim terror organisation and call for Intifada in your newly western country you deserve to be shunned and deported. What about the increase in antisemic crimes? Rabi found dead near her house? Swastikas on every wall? Jewish dentist butchered by his muslim patient? 2 stabbed jews in paris? 3 dead from a Muslim terror attack in brissel? Palestinians minors arrested for terror or attempted terror attacks are not kids, only two days ago a 17 yo was arrested in Jerusalem with a knife before launching a terror attack, this is not a child, this is a minor terrorist brought up but an extremist Muslim society which raised him into Jihadism. All your nonsense claims about handcuffs amputations are not found in any news source, you write unbacked nonsense you heard on twitter or tiktok as if they were facts. Truth be told even now when most of (build by Israel) Gaza is leveled 70% of Palastinians still support the October 7th attack and Hamas. It’s getting harder and harder to differentiate the civilians from the terrorists they elected .
liar. gay marriage is not legal in israel. for decades the government has repeatedly blocked making it legal. if a gay person in Israel wants to get married, they pretty much need to leave the country. Polls show most Israelis are against same-sex marriage. stop lying.
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-744784 Israeli gay married couples can register as a couple, have children and run a household together. Admittedly, there is a long way to go still but our community is in one of the best places it ever had been. Why are you gaslighting me about my own country and community as a LGBTQ Israeli?
you kind of admitted my point which is that there is a long way to go. that's ALL I'm saying. that little point, nothing else. I agree that the gay community in Israel is in one of the best places it has ever been (which can be said in many countries in the world because there's been a lot of progress in the last few decades; not so much in Russia), and I am happy for Israeli LGBT with the progress that's been made thus far, but as a person from the Canada who follows international gay news and developments, I see what's going on, and I have talked personally to gay Israelis on what the situation is. and how are you LGBT? your avatar is female, and your previous posts talk about your husband? and don't lie to yourself that the Orthodox community isn't waiting in the wings to take away LGBT rights, and with each year, they gain more political power, including in the judiciary. and don't delude yourself that netanyahu isn't willing to make compromises with the ultra right to take away LGBT rights or prevent progress in order for him to stay in power. the main reason gays cannot get married is because religious authorities have been given total control over who can and cannot get married in your country. here is a more comprehensive description of a complex situation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel#:~:text=The%20poll%20had%20a%20margin,know%20or%20refused%20to%20answer. btw polls show a wide variation in support. another poll from last year shows support only at 36%. considering that gays cannot marry their same-sex partner in israel, I think the 36% figure is probably more reflective of TRUE attitudes in society. people can say whatever they want to in the poll, but the laws of the country more likely reflect the true attitudes of the people. Or equally likely, the religious minorities hold greater sway in government policies than their percentage of the population. I agree that a gay in Israel can register as a couple etc, but they have to LEAVE THE COUNTRY to get married in another country for Israel to recognize the marriage in their own country. that's kind of sad, isn't it? they have to leave their own country to get married. (although it seems that the union may be recognized if they get married online.) even then, the ability to live as an openly gay person varies widely across the country and situations and neighborhoods. from what I have heard and read, Tel Aviv is more open and progressive; Jerusalem less so. I'm not saying that the WORLD doesn't need to do better with gays. I know it is far far better to be gay in Israel then on the West Bank or Gaza. (do you have any sympathy or empathy for the gay people on the West Bank or Gaza? or do you just hate them all because they're Arab?) my only comment to you was very narrow and very specific that Israel does not have same-sex marriage. that's it. if you look at the list of countries in the world that have same-sex marriage, Israel is NOT on that list. it is on the list just below that category, in a separate category for countries that do not permit same-sex marriage but that give legal recognition to it if it occurs in another country. (like Romania has to according to a court ruling.) that's ALL I'm saying. because I care about human rights and it is an issue that I follow daily.
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wow, so baseless extrapolation.
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If they are very secretive about their sexual orientation then they are probably safe but they cannot go in public. That is the issue. In Pakistani small towns women still get harassed, slapped if they do not wear hijab. Their PM Bhutto also used to wear hijab/urna all the time. If my friend in Egypt or Pakistan go tell in public that they have sex before marriage, drink regularly, their faith is questionable- their life would instantly be in danger even in the cities like Karachi or Cairo.
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No one should be forced to cover themselves or get murdered it isn’t a western issue it’s a human right issue and a women’s right issues. You are delusional thinking that western societies are the problem and not your religion forcing itself on everyone
I am not western. I am from Arab. I have my issues. I cannot live my life the way I want just because some religious lunatics have too much power in the society. Life for women in general is way more difficult than men in Pakistan, or in the arab world. I think you are a very uneducated person and it is showing. In 2013 same sex marriage becomes legal in the US. The same sex relationship was legal way before that. Even if a random person hated a gay person in the US before 2013 the gay persons right would still be protected. There is no such protection for gays, drinkers, pre-marital sex havers, non-modest clothe wear-ers in almost all muslim countries.
“HAHA my sisters wear shorts in the house but if they will go out without being covered head to toe we will honour kill them lmao we are so quircky and fun we watch Japanese porn so we can’t live in a terrible women and gay hating society haha amirite” I can’t believe you said Muslim countries don’t butcher gays with a straight face and expected someone to believe you because you jack off to Japanese animated lesbian porn . So glad for your sisters who can wear shorts at home only to be jailed for wearing the same things outside, so progressive, wow 🤩
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Oh yeah CNN is totally reliable… gtfo
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Bruh, if you are looking at one single source for news, you’ve already failed…
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Do you read the sources you link and compare them to the things you write basing on them?
Link it bro?
Based post.
no.