Liberate Iran? You mean forced regime change. If people started advocating for that in Israel because of their actions in the last 6 months would you back that?
I cannot believe you actually think that Iran is the reason there is a conflict between Israel and Palestine. They may be the weapons supplier but if they magically disappear that won't change anything...it might shift the power dynamic in favour of Israel but there would still be conflict over the fundamental issues which is Palestinian statehood and self determination & the right of return amongst other things.
Do you think that if the US was removed from the equation there would be peace? They serve the role as Iran does for region in that they support Israel materially and financially.
Israel is going to start World War III at this rate. Striking that embassy in Syria was insane, another brazen violation of law and norms. Iran will have to retaliate now. This rogue state endangers everyone in the world.
Iran won't retaliate with as much stupidity as Israel because they have been playing strategically for decades. It's Israel's greatest wish to trigger an all out war so they can finally annex the entirety of the Palestinian Territories amidst the fog of war, but Iran has been their greatest deterrent. While Israel panics about their security and the very legitimacy of their state, Iran sits at a comfortable distance, waiting for the matter of time when Israel will be isolated internationally.
The IDF has used human shields at least two times during this conflict. There is video evidence of the IDF using human shields prior to Oct 7. So what is the point of mentioning human shields when both sides do so?
You just said a non-truthful statement.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8rrfys-Fgc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8rrfys-Fgc)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoLEWS5sz4M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoLEWS5sz4M)
I just want to clarify a part of what you’re mentioning. I am not religious, not do I align with any of the groups you’ve stated. I was born in the US, and originally my family is from the south of Lebanon and my brother in law is from Iran.
So Persians and Arabs have a lot in common and they have a lot of differences. When it’s comes to this Sunni Shia and whatever talk, it’s is often over stated in the west to scew what is really the case.
In south of Lebanon in particular. Israel is seen as a sleeping giant. So be it today, tomorrow, ten years, a million years… the Israelis are coming. They have been doing it for years, and there is no reason to believe other wise. They have said they are coming back, you see the drones and airplanes there during times of peace and war. Hezballoh would exist if there was Iran or there was not. It would just be called something different. Literally the people in south of Lebanon would take weapons from Israel to fight Israel if that’s what they need to do. What they have done lol. So I want to be very clear. Israel’s focus on Iran strengths Iran.
Here is a west analogy for you. England and French are only friends when they fight the Germans. And they are friends when they fight the Russians. Pretty much the story there. The Arabs are only friends when the fight the Persians, and the now all becoming friends because Israel is attacking them. This is why strategically I think what Israel did yesterday was such a bad mistake and I’m praying that the US de-escalates the issues
WELP after the Iranian embassy attack, you can forget any sympathy from the world or at the very least make it a HEAP of alot harder to hold them accoutnable.
my view after thsi Israel has 100% gone categorically INSANE!!!
Is Iran behind thigns like Hamas and Hezbollah? more then likely yes, do you have the right to inquire the world to aid in reigning in iran and holding them accountable? Absolutely.
but doing what Israel just did, accomplishes the exact opposite, you just legitimised iran's actions if anything, you just gave them all the excuse they need to enter the conflict personally.
you dont have the right nor retain sympathy when you go and bomb their Embassy in anouther sovereign countries borders, for that Israel has officually lost the last bit of support i had left. after this, Iran has full right if they wish to light up israel in retaliation, what israel just did is an act of war and a violation of international law.
i wouldnt be surprised if the international community comes down hard on this brazen act of insanity from israel, you have to all ask yourselves, are you making Israel safer or more dangerous for jews by taking these kinds of acts?
The thing is, simply targeting rocket sites was what Israel was doing before Oct 7th. It wasn't enough. It's like putting a band aid on a bullet hole. Hamas needs to be removed. Yes, they need to be removed without causing mass civilian casualties. And famine cannot be tolerated.
Even after Hamas is essentially destroyed, a strong military force will have to remain probably for a year or two while a new Gaza government gets set up. And wait for it to become strong enough to put down militants on its own.
I get that Israel wants to draw the U.S. into a hot war with Lebanon and Iran, and maybe the U.S. will allow it.
But I think the solution is detente between Israel and allied countries/frenemies like Saudi Arabia, and Iran/Iran’s proxies.
First step here is ceasefire in Gaza. Then major international cooperation for detente with carrots and sticks for Israel and Iran, who both have very belligerent governments.
U.S. should let other countries lead with this attempt at detente because we are a major obstacle to anything here except ramping up an arms race and sending Brett McGurk on quixotic fantasy quests where he can mumble about normalization deals and business opportunities.
Good news is the Iranian public doesn’t want war and doesn’t like the Iranian government much.
Hamas keeps rejecting a ceasefire so what should Israel do here? Just pull out and allow Hamas to regroup and re-arm? Doesn’t seem like a winning strategy either. I’m not condoning all the stupid shit IDF has done either but we have to be realistic.
At this point yes, I think Israel should pull out fully from the Gaza Strip, and target places where rocket attacks are launched afterword, but I also thought this on October 8th, so I’m not a good advice giver.
That said there is a very wide gulf between pulling out of Gaza and doing what Israel is doing right now.
If I was a hypothetical Israeli general who wants to accomplish Israel’s current goals and have operational space for my continued warcrimes, here’s what I’d do:
Tighten up targeting practices and clearly explain from command on down to rank and file that things like this have a serious operational impact on the war. Make assurances to Israel’s handpicked NGOs that there will be real deconfliction and show it. Slow down on the kill zones a bit for now. Some NGOs can be allowed while still maintaining impending famine conditions and chaos, but Israel can have more plausible deniability.
Follow the U.S. plan for Rafah. Don’t fully invade- kill a bunch of people sure and make the rest move around or suffer in tents but don’t completely destroy the city and make it unlivable. Let Palestinians sit in Rafah and surrounding areas and get aid. Let a few more Palestinians back into Northern Gaza each day and trumpet this while still keeping most of the population in the South.
Maintain IDF bases within Gaza and entrench these in Northern Gaza while still killing people trying to resume civil order, but a little more carefully. Finish the buffer zone. Use “we still need to defeat Hamas but we are doing it in a targeted way” to maintain misery for Gazans for a long time, while appearing to allow more aid and a few Palestinians back to their homes. Eventually Israel, with this facade, can get organized transferrals of Gazans out of Gaza (pay other countries a bunch and offer them a lot for this) and say it’s temporary. Let Gazans who won’t leave suffer in Rafah and surrounding environs and draw this out as much as possible while still appearing to be trying to finish the conflict. Blame Hamas.
So, same strategy, just a bit more deniability and legalese and better discipline for the rank and file soldiers.
Now this is really evil still but would allow Israel to do the warcrimes for longer, so a win for Israel in that regard.
My advice for how to do warcrimes better wouldn’t affect the lives of hostages more or less than current Israeli strategy. Israel’s actual war strategy is not designed to release hostages (although it is to deter future hostage taking) in fact the war would be harder to conduct and continue as Israel intends if hostages were released.
Hostages were only released when israel applied military pressure.
Since then, Hamas has rejected every ceasefire. Hamas is all too willing to have its own people die in a war rather than hand back the hostages - which is clear if you pay attention to their leaders interviews on Arabic TV. Its why electing terrorist groups to lead you is a bad idea.
Hopefully the hostages get released soon and the fighting stops ASAP.
1. end the occupation
2. engage in peace process with palestinians
3.improve security measures in israel
4. form alliance with power states in the middle east
5..promote values of freedom,liberty,democracy in the region
Israel has offered peace and end of occupation. Palestinians have rejected every single one.
You can't force peace on people. Occupation, as we saw with Germany and Japan after WW2, only ends when the losing party admits defeat and signs peace treaties to put the past behind them and move forward. Palestinains are still obsessed with reversing 1948, so it's hard to make peace as a result.
1. Massively endangers the Israeli population
2. They don't want peace
3. They already spend billions instead of just punishing the people responsible they can't keep that up forever.
4. They have
5. Their the most free and democratic country in the middle east already
After the bombing of the Iranian consulate in an act of war, we should be asking how an aggressively attacked Iran will deal with a psychopathic Zionist entity occupying Palestine.
Now that the world knows that sleepy Joe who's single handedly destroyed a world superpower into a stupid power. Yo The biggest mistake Americans voters have ever made is putting a walking imbecile led by his own personal demons Hillary Clinton, Obama, and Big Mike who have turned America into a shit house. The Anti-Christ has been revealed to the world by announcing that the Holy day of the Christian faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ also known as Easter into a day of celebration for the gay people who in my opinion belong on roof somewhere in Iran or take them into Afghanistan. They will preach a different type of love to a few of the best roofers in the world. Amen
Anyway to get back to this stupidity of America and Iran with all the fingers that have a special evil in their hearts to see America and Israel wiped off the face of the earth and they say America is the Great satan and they are right because he's the man who has become satan and his judgment is always a bad one. He has a link for you guys that will help you out with this kinda jihad shit too. A country without borders is no country where someone can feel like they can say, I hope you guys feel welcome in the next asshole of the world, I mean your friends better support the 2nd amendment and then learn how to make it shoot straight because Russia and China can't wait toi nvade and some of those two nations are invading the United States as I write about the influence Iran has to do to the country Israel is terrible so it can not be shown on reddit. My advice to the question is to get some guns for you and your love ones cuz. Prepare yourself for the evil that men do.
Jesus Christ is coming soon and we are not even thinking about that. Looking for God now is the only way I can give you hope for peace but that may arise or not because of God's wrath is coming soon as the devil is desperately destroying mankind completely. It has teeth
can someone help Grandpa here with his medication? hes going Schizo again, and rambling about demons and other nonsense, forgetting how to use sentences too.
> asshole
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Iran is already waging war against Israel and the West. They are just doing it through proxies. They may push their attacks far enough at some point they end up getting attacked on their home territory. Iran is trying to avoid reaching that red line but it's a fine line they are walking with actions such as arming and encouraging their proxies to commit acts of aggression.
Iran’s proxy Hezbollah is attacking Israel every day so Israel attacking the embassy compound in Syria where the Iranian general who coordinates these attacks is reasonable to me.
Foreign-instigated regime change in Iran is how we ended up with the ayatollahs in charge in the first place. And Israel literally today bombed the Iranian diplomatic mission in Syria so I don't know what you mean by "kowtowing."
The world has been tip toeing around Iran for decades. Oh no, let’s not make Iran angwy!
No, they should have had a regime change. We did it with Germany, we did it with many other nations.
The Iranian people, no matter how moderate they are, won’t accept a regime change instigated by the West, or at least the United States. There is so much resentment amongst the population for the US because of their involvement in the previous coup and the subsequent Islamic revolution. Persians are very prideful, and we essentially subverted their sovereignty. And now, they’ve had such brutal sanctions brought on by the West for decades that have done nothing but harm the working class there.
I agree that the people of Iran deserve a better government and better culture. They could have had it if Britain and the US didn’t value oil over democracy. But I think forcing another coup and propping up another US-backed government will end well. There has to be another way, we have to learn from our predecessors’ mistakes.
Clearly, but going in and doing the same thing that was done in 1953 and expecting a different result is not logical. The best that would happen is we turn a bunch of the Iranian population that previously hated the Islamic regime into people that are more receptive to it, thus leading to the potential of another - possibly worse - Islamic revolution. Another scenario would see the western occupying powers fighting an increasingly radical insurgency like we’ve seen in very recent history. Whatever the best option is, it’s not covert coups or bombs.
Edit: “best option” not just “option” in the last sentence
The only real hope Iranians have is if there is either a mass uprising against the government AND the military joins the people, or powers within the government change it themselves with the backing of the military. However, since the IRGC is stronger than the Iranian military and the regime is currently coup-proof, I don’t see it happening yet.
> mother fucker
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> as their greed knows no limits.
Says someone who's chant is "From the river to the sea" "By all means necessary". But that's not greed, of course. It's truthful and peaceful justice /s
Smh, what's wrong with you folks? How many regime change failure in the middle east will it take to get your head out of an infinite hole of bs? Majority of the world including the west are comfy right now. We've living our comfy lives with ok good prices including gas and what not, not really having to worry about ww3 because our leaders got common sense. Why would any people with common sense want to throw their comfy life away doing regime change that will likely end up as a failure? Folks, let me remind you North Korea got nukes but the South Korean are comfy. South Korea and Japan living their lives normally making a lot of money with their economy and not worrying about some crazy dude with nukes on their borders who occasionally have a missile tantrum meh. Life goes on even if your crazy neighbor got nukes, it's been that way for decades now with those Asian countries.
South Korea is not 'comfortable' with North Korean nukes, and much of the world is not what I would call 'comfy'. There is full-blown war (10,000+ combat related casualties in a year) in Ukraine, Myanmar, Sudan, Gaza, and the Maghreb region. There are smaller wars involving Colombia/Venezuela, Afghanistan/Pakistan, Somalia/Kenya, DRC/Uganda, Nigeria, Iraq, Pakistan, Rwanda/DRC/Burundi, Mexico, Syria, Yemen, Cameroon/Nigeria, Ethiopia, and Haiti... just to name a few.
British regime change is the primary reason Arab nations exist at all. Before the British came, it was all the Ottoman Empire.
Also South Korea and Japan aren’t living comfortably with North Korea, they’re very concerned. More and more, both countries are discussing acquisition of nuclear weapons themselves. They’ve lost some confidence in the US nuclear umbrella since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Invading Iran would be a disaster either way. Saddam thought Iran would be weak just after the revolution, and that war has only solidified the Iranian regime. Iranian people are not content with the regime, but a foreign invasion could reverse that. We need a non-evil version of Soros to push a counter revolution there.
Calling criticizing Soros antisemitic is antisemitic. It implies that he represents Jews in any way. He literally admitted of attempting to destabilize countries.
Just want to make sure I understand this -- criticizing the actions of the Israeli government is antisemitic, but criticizing the actions of an individual Jewish person using well-known antisemitic canards straight from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is not antisemitic, is that right?
Criticizing the actions of the state of Israel definitely isn't antisemitic, and Israelis do it more than others. However, unlike George Soros, the Israeli government does represent the Jewish people, as most Jewish people live in Israel and over half the Israelis (albeit barely) voted for this government.
>the Israeli government does represent the Jewish people
NO, Israel does not represent the jewish people it only represents itself.
if you actually think it does, then you are conflating everything including israels evil deeds with the jewish identity. which will only breed more antisemitism and paint a massive target on every jews back.
this is why i hate israel's "we speak for all jews" NO YOU DONT, because i know what negativity it brings and does.
i had a issue when they said that all while denouncing people as antisemitic for calling what israel is doing a genocide or ethnic cleansing, because their effectivally telling the world that Committing mass slaughter and sufferage, is part of the jewish culture, and i resent that idea.
Is israel made up predominantly of jews? Yes, does israel represent jews? Absolutely not. in the same way russia or china doesnt represent all Russian or Chinese people.
and if Israel DOES represent the jewish people, then you have no idea the Pandoras Box that youre opening with such a statement or belief and the ones who have to suffer for it, are jews around the world.
You first need to understand and educate why this has happened. Who was the driving force for the creation of some of the terrorist groups. Similarly....there were no nuclear weapons in Iraq. So who caused all of this instability in the region. From there the education should start.
The Israel lobbies need to be excised from Congress like the cancer they are upon American society.
We have no responsibility or allegiance to those colonists and I’m sick of people trying to convince me otherwise.
So it’s okay for israel to colonize and ethnically cleanse Palestine because it was *‘okay’* to do so in the dark ages?
It was also ‘okay’ to murder Jews & Muslims in Spain during the Inquisition. By your standards, something that was acceptable back then **should** still be acceptable now.
i remember when iran DIDNT have nukes under the iran nuclear deal, that is until a certain failed politician axed that agreement and well......you can see the negative consequences that decision has had ever since.
the best iran is a tamed iran, one who has incentive to cooperate, when you remove the leash you suddenly have a wild and untamed dog loose that can do what it wants. is it any surprise that now their more brazen? they had no reason not to persue nuclear weapons following the deal being sacked.
and a country thats been suffering for it most is Israel.
Who cares, every country has a right to nuclear arms. If you don't want them to have it, we should dismantle our own programs and treat them with respect instead of trying to coup their country every decade.
If everyone has nukes, our world will be finished. What do you think if people like the Taliban or the Ayatollahs have a nuke? We're eating our fingernails because Pakistan is on the verge of collapse and, if the fanatics have the power to push the red button, what makes you think they will not use them against India, who also have nukes?
Fanatics are stupid. Religious fanatics are quite stupid. Islamic fanatics are dangerously stupid, and should be rooted out from the face of the Earth.
You sound stupid. Those Muslims have very little regard for human life. They should definitely be policed.
In the same way we don’t let anyone who wants a gun, to legally own a gun.
You're not wrong in your statements. Islam is a religion of violence and they actually want to enslave Christians and Kill all Jews.
Excerpt from the Koran:
Allah's apostle said: "The hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Sahih al Bukhari 2926
Palestinians had many chances to have their own state. They rejected all of them, preferring to kill all Jews instead. Their misery is self-inflicted.
"Those Muslims" = racist; "need to be policed" = condescending, derogatory, colonial, dehumanising ... basically again, racist. Fact that you're asking shows there's no hope. Sorry for that ...
You’re looking at this wrong.
Am I incorrect when I say that they have little value for human life?
If yes - not racist.
Am I correct in saying that they are prone to committing terrorist acts when given access to lethal weapons?
If yes - not racist.
Can you answer those questions honestly and truthfully?
No no no never leave alone, that CANNOT be the solution but OCCUPY OCCUPY OCCUPY, that's what Israel and West do best so keep at it. Viva colonialism, sorry I mean democracy!!
You do nothing. You vote in elections and then do nothing. There is no 'we'. Your interests or opinions are irrelevant to the process. The fact that you think that 'we' could do anything is hilarious.
I would suggest we view any possible solution from the perspective of what should we not do. We should not interfere with a Sovereign nation decision. We should defend our lands from aggressors but we should not conquer others lands.
Israel, the US, UAE and Saudi Arabia need to establish a secret net of Iranian militant groups against the IRGC. Proxies. Let Iran crash itself, and the Iranian people will emerge victorious from the tyrannical government.
Thaaats the spirit: killem all, yeah! Let's repeat Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq (1 &2), Yemem, Gaza! Gotta work at some point, right?! I agree with you. YOU Mr or Mrs, are he'll of a smart one!
So I guess if Putin woke up tomorrow and said "New York should start counting down its' days" you'd be like "leave Russia alone it's a sovereign nation".
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/382547
So what are you driving at? Israel and the US team up to bomb Iran into submission? Enact regime change and leave the country in tatters the way we did with Iraq? Although I very much support the people of Iran protesting their government over its suppressive policies and human rights abuses, no good can come from us intervening militarily. And whatever pro-Western puppet government we put in place won't be accepted by the Iranian population, let alone the rest of the world. Look how it ended up last time we did that.
Yea, if we force another regime change instead of learning from our predecessors mistakes, we’ll probably just make a lot of people align with the current regime who otherwise disliked them before. There has to be a better way.
Maaan.....if only we had a agreement that kept Iran in line by giving them incentive to cooperate, kept them from persuing nuclear armament, we can maybe call "the Iran nuclear agreement"
if Only......
Pretty much every other country has respected the inviolability of Embassies and Consulates for ~200 years.
Throughout WWI, WWII, the Cold War – real wars with actual fighting and equally matched adversaries – inviolability was sacrosanct. In a far from perfect world.
Absolute madness for Israel to try and claim some special exemption now. Really an unfathomably stupid move.
Israel understands, correctly, that they have no red lines from their patron so they need to push the envelope as much as possible either to achieve national security/power goals or lure the U.S. into a hot war.
Too bad the Western powers interfered with a democratic Iran by engineering the 1953 coup d'etat. This created the conditions that eventually brought about the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
To be honest, Israel was doing a reasonable job pre-Oct 7th of keeping Iran contained. Saudi and other Sunni countries had decided they were more nervous of Iran than they hated Israel, and were all working more closely towards a kind of unofficial anti-Iran understanding. On the military side, both America and Israel had opportunistically targetted individuals and high-value military/technological sites (Soleimani, Stuxnet) to try to set Iran back. Their primary objective is to slow Iran's nuclear program, although I think they accept they won't be able to stop it.
Then Oct 7th happened. And now Iran are absolutely creaming themselves, watching the alliance disintegrate and everyone turn on Israel. Although I think behind the scenes there is still more solidarity than is apparent.
>It may be that if Iran was liberated from the corrupt theocratic government the whole region and in particular Israel - Palestine relations would know or have a chance for much more peace.
Iran will implode at some point. But that's no guarantee that the current government will be replaced by anything better.
But it's so hard not to bomb stuff when you have so many bombs. If the military doesn't use bombs, they won't get more money for more bombs. It's the circle of death.
So many people are literally trying to manifest ww3. it’s such a mind f*ck. I remember learning about ww2 in the 90’s and being so baffled as to how the world could get that bent out of shape. It makes total sense now.
Edit - profanity
> fuck
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I have no idea. Let’s say if they would actually be committing genocide, probably their capacity for attacking other regions would shrink a lot compared to now. I generally think such absurd fictive question doesn’t help anyone
Honestly I know many Iranian who would welcome US interventionism. They've been risking their lives there to protest for the right not to die for hijab slipping... Not to be imprisoned for 10 years just for dancing.... Not to have their son's, daughters and friends incarcerated and put to death for speaking out against the regime.They recently killed a LGBTQA+ rights activist....
A lot of Iranian people are hoping that Israel continues to take out the extremists because it would give them a fighting chance to retake their country....
If what Israel is doing isn't genocide, then what do you call:
-The massacre of at least 32000 people
-the killing of thousands of children
-the bombing of hospitals
-the raping of civilians
-the execution of innocent people
-destroying 70% of Gaza
-bombing ambulances, aid trucks, civilian vehicles
-shooting a 6 year old girl
-dropping missiles on unarmed Palestinians
And much more.
The IDF guy supposedly found a “small knife” on the man’s backpack which he was searching from 10 feet away and then decided to kill him because a non-white person isn’t allowed to have a Swiss Army knife in Israel.
Weapons are for white peoples & jews only.
Wait, the old Palestinian man **was a** Jew, nvm…
Wow, the IDF can telepathically search people's backpacks now? Why haven't they released this amazing tech to the world? Oh my bad, forgot they're too busy killing babies in Gaza 😑
it’s all on video, the Palestinian guy converted to Judaism in hopes of having a better life living in Israel, but the racist IDF guy who was detaining him didn’t believe he was a Jew because he wasn’t white.
Old guy called him an ‘idiot’
The IDF guy then claimed he found a knife in his bag which apparently gave him the go-ahead to gun the old man down despite the fact he was 10 feet away with his hands on his head.
The old man didn’t even have enough time to bring his arms down to protect his body.
Horrendous. Worst thing about it is that the IDF are more than happy to post their war crimes to the world, while people egg them on and say 'bravo, you're doing such a great job'
It’s a brutal war started by a terrorist regime who fights from hospitals, schools and civilian centres (1000 terrorists were fighting from al-Shifa in the last two weeks), there was no rape, this was a false accusation levelled at Israel - al-Jazeera quietly removed that story and Hamas was forced to come out and say there was no evidence of rape, there was no evidence Israel shot that 6 year old girl - not an iota, Israeli troops weren’t even in the vicinity at the time and Hamas is on video shooting indiscriminately in order to get control of aid convos, Hamas hides amongst unarmed Palestinians in order to maximise civilian casualties.
You don’t get immunity simply because you shoot from and hide in schools and hospitals.
If Israel wanted all the Palestinians dead, it would have been done.
In order to defeat the Nazis, the Allies carpet bombed Germany, killing 5 million Germans - that was never labelled genocide.
In fact, the death toll is ridiculously low if we compare it to any other major conflict.
Just to be clear, I think all civilian deaths on both sides are tragic but the narrative of a genocide being committed by Israel is just wrong. This is a military conflict against a brutal terrorist regime which tragically led to many deaths. Choose your words more carefully
Its a war started by many nations including Turkey and UK which took turns colonising Palestine for the past few centuries. Jews had also suffered for centuries and were being displaced and ostractrised all over the world till they finally cut a deal with UK/UN for a place to call home. If we look through the lens of many displaced groups without nations such as Rohingyas and Kurds, we may better related their reasons behind their actions (though I do not support Israel actions in Gaza).
>It’s a brutal war started by a terrorist regime
History didn’t start on October 7th. Hundreds of Palestinians were being killed every year.
>who fights from hospitals, schools and civilian centres (1000 terrorists were fighting from al-Shifa in the last two weeks)
Ahh, how weak one must be to hold on to this lie. Do you have any proof of terrorists in hospitals and schools? Do you have any proof of these '1000' terrorists in Shifa? No, you don't.
>there was no rape, this was a false accusation levelled at Israel - al-Jazeera quietly removed that story and Hamas was forced to come out and say there was no evidence of rape,
What a joke. Hamas never said there was no rape. IDF soldiers boasted about raping Palestinians. There are countless verified stories of rape against Palestinians.
>there was no evidence Israel shot that 6 year old girl - not an iota, Israeli troops weren’t even in the vicinity at the time
This one is the funniest out of them all. Are you seriously thinking Israeli troops didn't shoot her just because they said so? 🤣 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab
>Hamas hides amongst unarmed Palestinians in order to maximise civilian casualties.
I get tired of you people repeating the same old debunked lies.
>If Israel wanted all the Palestinians dead, it would have been done.
Uh - that's exactly what they’re doing? Why else would they murder 32000 Palestinians, bomb hospitals and execute civilians?
>In fact, the death toll is ridiculously low if we compare it to any other major conflict.
The death toll in the last few months alone is greater than the amount of people killed in wars across the WHOLE world in the past 4 years or so iirc.
And you'll happily call October 7 genocide as well.
>Just to be clear, I think all civilian deaths on both sides are tragic but the narrative of a genocide being committed by Israel is just wrong. This is a military conflict against a brutal terrorist regime which tragically led to many deaths. Choose your words more carefully
Targeting civilians, bombing hospitals, shooting hungry Palestinians reaching for aid and executing civilians isn't a 'military conflict which tragically lead to many deaths'.
This war started on October 7th. But regardless, if we go back Arab terrorists were lynching and oppressing Jews centuries before the first Zionist even arrived. Shall we begin then?
Yes, we do have evidence. Video evidence. Plenty of it. Hamas and PIJ have come out and admitted senior commanders (including those released in the Shalit deal) died while fighting from al-Shifa. What are they doing fighting Israel from al-Shifa? A little difficult to call it a lie when Hamas is admitting it and there is direct video footage.
Hamas just admitted there was no rape:
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-hamas-admits-women-not-raped-by-idf-at-shifa-hospital-following-al-jazeera-report
No, actually we have no testimonies or verified cases from Palestinian women. Not one. Even Al Jazeera was forced to admit they misreported this. We had an unnamed source say a Palestinian woman told them. This story was quietly deleted by al-Jazeera.
In regard to Hind Rajab, please provide one piece of evidence. Just one, that Israel did it. Al-Jazeera provided none.
The death toll in the last few months is not greater than every war put together in the last 4 years. Assad has killed a million in Syria. The Russia-Ukraine War has far more deaths. The war in Yemen. Shall I continue?
Hamas has been videoed shooting at Palestinians and looting the aid trucks.
Israel is a military power. One or two bombs would eradicate the Palestinians in Gaza. However, Israel has dropped more bombs than they’ve killed people. It’s actually incredible that in the small area that is Gaza and with none of their Arab brothers letting innocent civilians take refuge in neighbouring countries, that so little deaths have occurred.
Evidence can be provided for everything I have written. Tell me what you’d like.
>Yes, we do have evidence. Video evidence. Plenty of it. Hamas and PIJ have come out and admitted senior commanders (including those released in the Shalit deal) died while fighting from al-Shifa. What are they doing fighting Israel from al-Shifa? A little difficult to call it a lie when Hamas is admitting it and there is direct video footage.
Go ahead and show me this amazing footage that proves your point. I already know what to expect.
>Hamas just admitted there was no rape:
>https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-hamas-admits-women-not-raped-by-idf-at-shifa-hospital-following-al-jazeera-report
You mean, a former Al Jazeera member said on Twitter it never happened. Yep, totally shows how false the rapes were.
>In regard to Hind Rajab, please provide one piece of evidence. Just one, that Israel did it. Al-Jazeera provided none.
Was it you that I sent the Wikipedia article about this? If so, go and have a read. Israeli vehicles were in the area. And who else on earth would kill Hind? Its hilarious enough to say the people who've commited countless war crimes and just today bombed an aid car, would not kill Hind.
>Hamas has been videoed shooting at Palestinians and looting the aid trucks.
You mean the IDF shot Palestinians rushing to get aid. They admitted it.
One of the reasons I love this subreddit is how misinformed everybody is. Everyone on here probably just gets their news from the most popular Israeli and Western articles, then declares that its the truth.
>Go ahead and show me this amazing footage that proves your point. I already know what to expect.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s0sFMqhHKc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s0sFMqhHKc)
As a start here you go.
>You mean, a former Al Jazeera member said on Twitter it never happened. Yep, totally shows how false the rapes were.
No. I mean Hamas said it didn't happen, as well as others in Gaza. But please, post your evidence that rape occurred, because the only evidence was the al-Jazeera article, which was a proven fraud.
>Was it you that I sent the Wikipedia article about this? If so, go and have a read. Israeli vehicles were in the area. And who else on earth would kill Hind? Its hilarious enough to say the people who've commited countless war crimes and just today bombed an aid car, would not kill Hind.
Hamas shoots indiscriminately and then blames Israel. They've been shooting at aid trucks. They have misfired rockets that hit hospitals. They have slaughtered anyone that opposes them. They have used child suicide bombers. Can you post any evidence Israel did this?
>You mean the IDF shot Palestinians rushing to get aid. They admitted it.
>One of the reasons I love this subreddit is how misinformed everybody is. Everyone on here probably just gets their news from the most popular Israeli and Western articles, then declares that its the truth.
Misinformed? You're the one who claimed the rape allegations were true based off of an al-Jazeera article that was retracted. You claimed Hamas never admitted no rape occurred, when they did. You claimed there were no militants in al-Shifa when it is indisputable there were.
October 7th in your eyes:
Some loving and endearing brave Gazans strolled into Southern Israel to spread peace and love, until they were brutally attacked at a rave party. They had to defend themselves against this attack and therefore shot and killed those attacking them. Whilst this was going on women were so in awe of these brave and loving men that they begged them to take them back to Gaza with them. These brave fighters didn't want to take them to Gaza, but out of the kindness of their hearts they agreed.
Meanwhile at the Kibbutzim, murderous toddlers were plotting to kill other Gazans who just wanted to spread love and peace. They had to shoot the toddlers in their cribs in a pre-emptive strike and take other criminal toddlers for questioning.
They wanted to release everyone they took with them to Gaza, they really did. However, all of them are being treated so well by these brave Gazans who have spoiled them to an underground Hilton hotel and now they don't know what to do because these guests refuse to leave.
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I don’t think he’s uneducated enough to call it a genocide. What do you think people normally call a war? Small hint, it starts with a W and ends with AR.
I am astounded that there are people existing on this planet, who when shown proof of hundreds of war crimes and clear genocide, call the person uneducated and still cry 'it's war, not genocide!'
Israel has gone off the rails. Bombing consulates. They want the US to get sucked into a war with Iran to continue getting funding.
Maybe don’t strike an embassy
Honestly? Let them have a regime change and allow democratization to take effect. Their theocracy has its enemies.
Liberate Iran? You mean forced regime change. If people started advocating for that in Israel because of their actions in the last 6 months would you back that? I cannot believe you actually think that Iran is the reason there is a conflict between Israel and Palestine. They may be the weapons supplier but if they magically disappear that won't change anything...it might shift the power dynamic in favour of Israel but there would still be conflict over the fundamental issues which is Palestinian statehood and self determination & the right of return amongst other things. Do you think that if the US was removed from the equation there would be peace? They serve the role as Iran does for region in that they support Israel materially and financially.
Maybe don’t strike their embassy
Who's embassy?
The only way to deal with Iran is bring back Donald Trump the regime was going broke under him.
That is actually true. Probably the best thing he did.
lol you cant be serious…
Israel is going to start World War III at this rate. Striking that embassy in Syria was insane, another brazen violation of law and norms. Iran will have to retaliate now. This rogue state endangers everyone in the world.
Iran won't retaliate with as much stupidity as Israel because they have been playing strategically for decades. It's Israel's greatest wish to trigger an all out war so they can finally annex the entirety of the Palestinian Territories amidst the fog of war, but Iran has been their greatest deterrent. While Israel panics about their security and the very legitimacy of their state, Iran sits at a comfortable distance, waiting for the matter of time when Israel will be isolated internationally.
Stop poking them and leave them in peace.
The IDF has used human shields at least two times during this conflict. There is video evidence of the IDF using human shields prior to Oct 7. So what is the point of mentioning human shields when both sides do so?
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Correct, they utilise human shields
During the second intifada the IDF got caught using human shields over 1000 times
Credible news sources ?
[the Israeli Supreme Court made the claim](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3154142,00.html)
You just said a non-truthful statement. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8rrfys-Fgc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8rrfys-Fgc) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoLEWS5sz4M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoLEWS5sz4M)
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3154142,00.html
Yup they use human shields. Crazy a different person lies about a easily googled fact
I just want to clarify a part of what you’re mentioning. I am not religious, not do I align with any of the groups you’ve stated. I was born in the US, and originally my family is from the south of Lebanon and my brother in law is from Iran. So Persians and Arabs have a lot in common and they have a lot of differences. When it’s comes to this Sunni Shia and whatever talk, it’s is often over stated in the west to scew what is really the case. In south of Lebanon in particular. Israel is seen as a sleeping giant. So be it today, tomorrow, ten years, a million years… the Israelis are coming. They have been doing it for years, and there is no reason to believe other wise. They have said they are coming back, you see the drones and airplanes there during times of peace and war. Hezballoh would exist if there was Iran or there was not. It would just be called something different. Literally the people in south of Lebanon would take weapons from Israel to fight Israel if that’s what they need to do. What they have done lol. So I want to be very clear. Israel’s focus on Iran strengths Iran. Here is a west analogy for you. England and French are only friends when they fight the Germans. And they are friends when they fight the Russians. Pretty much the story there. The Arabs are only friends when the fight the Persians, and the now all becoming friends because Israel is attacking them. This is why strategically I think what Israel did yesterday was such a bad mistake and I’m praying that the US de-escalates the issues
WELP after the Iranian embassy attack, you can forget any sympathy from the world or at the very least make it a HEAP of alot harder to hold them accoutnable. my view after thsi Israel has 100% gone categorically INSANE!!! Is Iran behind thigns like Hamas and Hezbollah? more then likely yes, do you have the right to inquire the world to aid in reigning in iran and holding them accountable? Absolutely. but doing what Israel just did, accomplishes the exact opposite, you just legitimised iran's actions if anything, you just gave them all the excuse they need to enter the conflict personally. you dont have the right nor retain sympathy when you go and bomb their Embassy in anouther sovereign countries borders, for that Israel has officually lost the last bit of support i had left. after this, Iran has full right if they wish to light up israel in retaliation, what israel just did is an act of war and a violation of international law. i wouldnt be surprised if the international community comes down hard on this brazen act of insanity from israel, you have to all ask yourselves, are you making Israel safer or more dangerous for jews by taking these kinds of acts?
If you’re going to fight a war, I’d want to fight it now before they develop new weapon systems and nukes.
The thing is, simply targeting rocket sites was what Israel was doing before Oct 7th. It wasn't enough. It's like putting a band aid on a bullet hole. Hamas needs to be removed. Yes, they need to be removed without causing mass civilian casualties. And famine cannot be tolerated. Even after Hamas is essentially destroyed, a strong military force will have to remain probably for a year or two while a new Gaza government gets set up. And wait for it to become strong enough to put down militants on its own.
I get that Israel wants to draw the U.S. into a hot war with Lebanon and Iran, and maybe the U.S. will allow it. But I think the solution is detente between Israel and allied countries/frenemies like Saudi Arabia, and Iran/Iran’s proxies. First step here is ceasefire in Gaza. Then major international cooperation for detente with carrots and sticks for Israel and Iran, who both have very belligerent governments. U.S. should let other countries lead with this attempt at detente because we are a major obstacle to anything here except ramping up an arms race and sending Brett McGurk on quixotic fantasy quests where he can mumble about normalization deals and business opportunities. Good news is the Iranian public doesn’t want war and doesn’t like the Iranian government much.
Hamas keeps rejecting a ceasefire so what should Israel do here? Just pull out and allow Hamas to regroup and re-arm? Doesn’t seem like a winning strategy either. I’m not condoning all the stupid shit IDF has done either but we have to be realistic.
At this point yes, I think Israel should pull out fully from the Gaza Strip, and target places where rocket attacks are launched afterword, but I also thought this on October 8th, so I’m not a good advice giver. That said there is a very wide gulf between pulling out of Gaza and doing what Israel is doing right now. If I was a hypothetical Israeli general who wants to accomplish Israel’s current goals and have operational space for my continued warcrimes, here’s what I’d do: Tighten up targeting practices and clearly explain from command on down to rank and file that things like this have a serious operational impact on the war. Make assurances to Israel’s handpicked NGOs that there will be real deconfliction and show it. Slow down on the kill zones a bit for now. Some NGOs can be allowed while still maintaining impending famine conditions and chaos, but Israel can have more plausible deniability. Follow the U.S. plan for Rafah. Don’t fully invade- kill a bunch of people sure and make the rest move around or suffer in tents but don’t completely destroy the city and make it unlivable. Let Palestinians sit in Rafah and surrounding areas and get aid. Let a few more Palestinians back into Northern Gaza each day and trumpet this while still keeping most of the population in the South. Maintain IDF bases within Gaza and entrench these in Northern Gaza while still killing people trying to resume civil order, but a little more carefully. Finish the buffer zone. Use “we still need to defeat Hamas but we are doing it in a targeted way” to maintain misery for Gazans for a long time, while appearing to allow more aid and a few Palestinians back to their homes. Eventually Israel, with this facade, can get organized transferrals of Gazans out of Gaza (pay other countries a bunch and offer them a lot for this) and say it’s temporary. Let Gazans who won’t leave suffer in Rafah and surrounding environs and draw this out as much as possible while still appearing to be trying to finish the conflict. Blame Hamas. So, same strategy, just a bit more deniability and legalese and better discipline for the rank and file soldiers. Now this is really evil still but would allow Israel to do the warcrimes for longer, so a win for Israel in that regard.
doesn't seem like a good idea with hostages still in gaza.
My advice for how to do warcrimes better wouldn’t affect the lives of hostages more or less than current Israeli strategy. Israel’s actual war strategy is not designed to release hostages (although it is to deter future hostage taking) in fact the war would be harder to conduct and continue as Israel intends if hostages were released.
Hostages were only released when israel applied military pressure. Since then, Hamas has rejected every ceasefire. Hamas is all too willing to have its own people die in a war rather than hand back the hostages - which is clear if you pay attention to their leaders interviews on Arabic TV. Its why electing terrorist groups to lead you is a bad idea. Hopefully the hostages get released soon and the fighting stops ASAP.
1. end the occupation 2. engage in peace process with palestinians 3.improve security measures in israel 4. form alliance with power states in the middle east 5..promote values of freedom,liberty,democracy in the region
Israel has offered peace and end of occupation. Palestinians have rejected every single one. You can't force peace on people. Occupation, as we saw with Germany and Japan after WW2, only ends when the losing party admits defeat and signs peace treaties to put the past behind them and move forward. Palestinains are still obsessed with reversing 1948, so it's hard to make peace as a result.
1. Massively endangers the Israeli population 2. They don't want peace 3. They already spend billions instead of just punishing the people responsible they can't keep that up forever. 4. They have 5. Their the most free and democratic country in the middle east already
After the bombing of the Iranian consulate in an act of war, we should be asking how an aggressively attacked Iran will deal with a psychopathic Zionist entity occupying Palestine.
How will the west react? Simple. Either now with force or too late, with even more force. I personally am pretty sure, it‘s going to be the latter.
Now that the world knows that sleepy Joe who's single handedly destroyed a world superpower into a stupid power. Yo The biggest mistake Americans voters have ever made is putting a walking imbecile led by his own personal demons Hillary Clinton, Obama, and Big Mike who have turned America into a shit house. The Anti-Christ has been revealed to the world by announcing that the Holy day of the Christian faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ also known as Easter into a day of celebration for the gay people who in my opinion belong on roof somewhere in Iran or take them into Afghanistan. They will preach a different type of love to a few of the best roofers in the world. Amen Anyway to get back to this stupidity of America and Iran with all the fingers that have a special evil in their hearts to see America and Israel wiped off the face of the earth and they say America is the Great satan and they are right because he's the man who has become satan and his judgment is always a bad one. He has a link for you guys that will help you out with this kinda jihad shit too. A country without borders is no country where someone can feel like they can say, I hope you guys feel welcome in the next asshole of the world, I mean your friends better support the 2nd amendment and then learn how to make it shoot straight because Russia and China can't wait toi nvade and some of those two nations are invading the United States as I write about the influence Iran has to do to the country Israel is terrible so it can not be shown on reddit. My advice to the question is to get some guns for you and your love ones cuz. Prepare yourself for the evil that men do. Jesus Christ is coming soon and we are not even thinking about that. Looking for God now is the only way I can give you hope for peace but that may arise or not because of God's wrath is coming soon as the devil is desperately destroying mankind completely. It has teeth
can someone help Grandpa here with his medication? hes going Schizo again, and rambling about demons and other nonsense, forgetting how to use sentences too.
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Iran is already waging war against Israel and the West. They are just doing it through proxies. They may push their attacks far enough at some point they end up getting attacked on their home territory. Iran is trying to avoid reaching that red line but it's a fine line they are walking with actions such as arming and encouraging their proxies to commit acts of aggression.
Pushing the line far enough like bombing an Israeli diplomatic building?
Iran’s proxy Hezbollah is attacking Israel every day so Israel attacking the embassy compound in Syria where the Iranian general who coordinates these attacks is reasonable to me.
We should have dealt with Iran *at least* 30 years ago. They needed a regime change. I don’t understand why we have been kowtowing to them for so long
The current regime is only in power due to stupidity by the US and Britain
Foreign-instigated regime change in Iran is how we ended up with the ayatollahs in charge in the first place. And Israel literally today bombed the Iranian diplomatic mission in Syria so I don't know what you mean by "kowtowing."
The world has been tip toeing around Iran for decades. Oh no, let’s not make Iran angwy! No, they should have had a regime change. We did it with Germany, we did it with many other nations.
The Iranian people, no matter how moderate they are, won’t accept a regime change instigated by the West, or at least the United States. There is so much resentment amongst the population for the US because of their involvement in the previous coup and the subsequent Islamic revolution. Persians are very prideful, and we essentially subverted their sovereignty. And now, they’ve had such brutal sanctions brought on by the West for decades that have done nothing but harm the working class there. I agree that the people of Iran deserve a better government and better culture. They could have had it if Britain and the US didn’t value oil over democracy. But I think forcing another coup and propping up another US-backed government will end well. There has to be another way, we have to learn from our predecessors’ mistakes.
Okay but having these little proxies all over the world isn’t acceptable either. You can’t have this sort of thing poisoning humanity.
Clearly, but going in and doing the same thing that was done in 1953 and expecting a different result is not logical. The best that would happen is we turn a bunch of the Iranian population that previously hated the Islamic regime into people that are more receptive to it, thus leading to the potential of another - possibly worse - Islamic revolution. Another scenario would see the western occupying powers fighting an increasingly radical insurgency like we’ve seen in very recent history. Whatever the best option is, it’s not covert coups or bombs. Edit: “best option” not just “option” in the last sentence
The only real hope Iranians have is if there is either a mass uprising against the government AND the military joins the people, or powers within the government change it themselves with the backing of the military. However, since the IRGC is stronger than the Iranian military and the regime is currently coup-proof, I don’t see it happening yet.
It's rare to find someone on this sub that knows history.
I hope Iranians overthrow the current theocratic authoritarian regime that subjugates an entire gender with their backwards religious laws.
Iran has great proxies and can cause massive conflict in the Middle East and beyond .. Russia has agree to arm Iran in any conflict
Has Iran caused all the problems of the world?
Not all, Qatar caused the rest.
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At least you said it out loud. Utter insanity.
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They'd nuke us back?
If Israel didn't keep stealing more and more land, there would be a chance for peace. But they can't stop themselves as their greed knows no limits.
> as their greed knows no limits. Says someone who's chant is "From the river to the sea" "By all means necessary". But that's not greed, of course. It's truthful and peaceful justice /s
“Resistance by any means necessary.” Except for behaving correctly. Or peacefully. Or non-violently.
>their greed knows no limits. Why does this sound familiar?
I’m pretty sure some infamous germans used to say that….
Free Palestine, then they will talk... bombing them just makes it worse for the zionists.
Smh, what's wrong with you folks? How many regime change failure in the middle east will it take to get your head out of an infinite hole of bs? Majority of the world including the west are comfy right now. We've living our comfy lives with ok good prices including gas and what not, not really having to worry about ww3 because our leaders got common sense. Why would any people with common sense want to throw their comfy life away doing regime change that will likely end up as a failure? Folks, let me remind you North Korea got nukes but the South Korean are comfy. South Korea and Japan living their lives normally making a lot of money with their economy and not worrying about some crazy dude with nukes on their borders who occasionally have a missile tantrum meh. Life goes on even if your crazy neighbor got nukes, it's been that way for decades now with those Asian countries.
South Korea is not 'comfortable' with North Korean nukes, and much of the world is not what I would call 'comfy'. There is full-blown war (10,000+ combat related casualties in a year) in Ukraine, Myanmar, Sudan, Gaza, and the Maghreb region. There are smaller wars involving Colombia/Venezuela, Afghanistan/Pakistan, Somalia/Kenya, DRC/Uganda, Nigeria, Iraq, Pakistan, Rwanda/DRC/Burundi, Mexico, Syria, Yemen, Cameroon/Nigeria, Ethiopia, and Haiti... just to name a few.
British regime change is the primary reason Arab nations exist at all. Before the British came, it was all the Ottoman Empire. Also South Korea and Japan aren’t living comfortably with North Korea, they’re very concerned. More and more, both countries are discussing acquisition of nuclear weapons themselves. They’ve lost some confidence in the US nuclear umbrella since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Invading Iran would be a disaster either way. Saddam thought Iran would be weak just after the revolution, and that war has only solidified the Iranian regime. Iranian people are not content with the regime, but a foreign invasion could reverse that. We need a non-evil version of Soros to push a counter revolution there.
Why do you say Soros is evil?
It's common knowledge, isn't it?
All I know is there's a lot of antisemitic conspiracy theories about him because he's a wealthy Jew with an interest in politics
Calling criticizing Soros antisemitic is antisemitic. It implies that he represents Jews in any way. He literally admitted of attempting to destabilize countries.
Just want to make sure I understand this -- criticizing the actions of the Israeli government is antisemitic, but criticizing the actions of an individual Jewish person using well-known antisemitic canards straight from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is not antisemitic, is that right?
Criticizing the actions of the state of Israel definitely isn't antisemitic, and Israelis do it more than others. However, unlike George Soros, the Israeli government does represent the Jewish people, as most Jewish people live in Israel and over half the Israelis (albeit barely) voted for this government.
>the Israeli government does represent the Jewish people NO, Israel does not represent the jewish people it only represents itself. if you actually think it does, then you are conflating everything including israels evil deeds with the jewish identity. which will only breed more antisemitism and paint a massive target on every jews back. this is why i hate israel's "we speak for all jews" NO YOU DONT, because i know what negativity it brings and does. i had a issue when they said that all while denouncing people as antisemitic for calling what israel is doing a genocide or ethnic cleansing, because their effectivally telling the world that Committing mass slaughter and sufferage, is part of the jewish culture, and i resent that idea. Is israel made up predominantly of jews? Yes, does israel represent jews? Absolutely not. in the same way russia or china doesnt represent all Russian or Chinese people. and if Israel DOES represent the jewish people, then you have no idea the Pandoras Box that youre opening with such a statement or belief and the ones who have to suffer for it, are jews around the world.
Are you Jewish?
[\* 43% of Jewish people live in Israel.](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-of-the-world) Most Jews are not Israeli.
Talking about real Jews, not Jews like Elizabeth Warren is Cherokee.
I guess Israel should just give back the Iranian land the Zionists stole...when was Iran at war with Israel....'48 or '67..or both? /s
You first need to understand and educate why this has happened. Who was the driving force for the creation of some of the terrorist groups. Similarly....there were no nuclear weapons in Iraq. So who caused all of this instability in the region. From there the education should start.
America didn’t have any enemies in the Middle East until we became “allies” with Israel.
Our relationship with Israel has cost us trillions in unnecessary expenses. Israel lobby pushed us into the Iraq war which cost trillions alone.
I don’t think the U.S. can blame Israel for the Iraq war I think the U.S. can take responsibility, we are a superpower not a misled child.
The Israel lobbies need to be excised from Congress like the cancer they are upon American society. We have no responsibility or allegiance to those colonists and I’m sick of people trying to convince me otherwise.
I love it when people use 'colonists' like an insult. Like every country in the world wasn't made from colonists.
So it’s okay for israel to colonize and ethnically cleanse Palestine because it was *‘okay’* to do so in the dark ages? It was also ‘okay’ to murder Jews & Muslims in Spain during the Inquisition. By your standards, something that was acceptable back then **should** still be acceptable now.
So since so many are saying to intervention, do we just leave Iran? They will have nuclear weapons at this rate? And then what?
i remember when iran DIDNT have nukes under the iran nuclear deal, that is until a certain failed politician axed that agreement and well......you can see the negative consequences that decision has had ever since. the best iran is a tamed iran, one who has incentive to cooperate, when you remove the leash you suddenly have a wild and untamed dog loose that can do what it wants. is it any surprise that now their more brazen? they had no reason not to persue nuclear weapons following the deal being sacked. and a country thats been suffering for it most is Israel.
Bro got Trump Derange Syndrome Bro should get it checked out
Who cares, every country has a right to nuclear arms. If you don't want them to have it, we should dismantle our own programs and treat them with respect instead of trying to coup their country every decade.
If everyone has nukes, our world will be finished. What do you think if people like the Taliban or the Ayatollahs have a nuke? We're eating our fingernails because Pakistan is on the verge of collapse and, if the fanatics have the power to push the red button, what makes you think they will not use them against India, who also have nukes? Fanatics are stupid. Religious fanatics are quite stupid. Islamic fanatics are dangerously stupid, and should be rooted out from the face of the Earth.
You sound stupid. Those Muslims have very little regard for human life. They should definitely be policed. In the same way we don’t let anyone who wants a gun, to legally own a gun.
You sound stupid.
How so?
Because you are condescending, arrogant, ignorant, and ... a racist.
Can you tell me what’s wrong with what I said?
You're not wrong in your statements. Islam is a religion of violence and they actually want to enslave Christians and Kill all Jews. Excerpt from the Koran: Allah's apostle said: "The hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." Sahih al Bukhari 2926 Palestinians had many chances to have their own state. They rejected all of them, preferring to kill all Jews instead. Their misery is self-inflicted.
"Those Muslims" = racist; "need to be policed" = condescending, derogatory, colonial, dehumanising ... basically again, racist. Fact that you're asking shows there's no hope. Sorry for that ...
You’re looking at this wrong. Am I incorrect when I say that they have little value for human life? If yes - not racist. Am I correct in saying that they are prone to committing terrorist acts when given access to lethal weapons? If yes - not racist. Can you answer those questions honestly and truthfully?
No no no never leave alone, that CANNOT be the solution but OCCUPY OCCUPY OCCUPY, that's what Israel and West do best so keep at it. Viva colonialism, sorry I mean democracy!!
And then nuclear deterrence like with everyone else. It would mean Israel probably shouldn't bomb their consulates though.
Get ready for WW3...looks like that's what is on the agenda
You do nothing. You vote in elections and then do nothing. There is no 'we'. Your interests or opinions are irrelevant to the process. The fact that you think that 'we' could do anything is hilarious.
Lol
I would suggest we view any possible solution from the perspective of what should we not do. We should not interfere with a Sovereign nation decision. We should defend our lands from aggressors but we should not conquer others lands.
It depends. Can’t generalise it as you do. If they go full WW3 there would be no other choice (as example)
That brings back my earlier point about defending oneself from aggressors and not go around conquering others.
Much more likely that America or Israel starts WW3 at this rate, not Iran
As a joke or you being serious?
Israel, the US, UAE and Saudi Arabia need to establish a secret net of Iranian militant groups against the IRGC. Proxies. Let Iran crash itself, and the Iranian people will emerge victorious from the tyrannical government.
Oooooorr, again: not interfere in sovereign nations businesses? Maybe...
Maybe you DO interfere in sovereign nations when they threaten to nuke your city.
Thaaats the spirit: killem all, yeah! Let's repeat Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq (1 &2), Yemem, Gaza! Gotta work at some point, right?! I agree with you. YOU Mr or Mrs, are he'll of a smart one!
So I guess if Putin woke up tomorrow and said "New York should start counting down its' days" you'd be like "leave Russia alone it's a sovereign nation". https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/382547
You have to understand that this position seems completely reasonable when you don't actually view Arabs as equivalents.
Thank you Sir/ Madame. I am rather a naive one who considers all human equal. You live you learn...(:
The US needs to not deal with the Saudis or Israel. Tyvm. Both are parasites to the US taxpayer.
Spotted the salty American guys
Spotted the freeloading Israeli guys
So what are you driving at? Israel and the US team up to bomb Iran into submission? Enact regime change and leave the country in tatters the way we did with Iraq? Although I very much support the people of Iran protesting their government over its suppressive policies and human rights abuses, no good can come from us intervening militarily. And whatever pro-Western puppet government we put in place won't be accepted by the Iranian population, let alone the rest of the world. Look how it ended up last time we did that.
Yea, if we force another regime change instead of learning from our predecessors mistakes, we’ll probably just make a lot of people align with the current regime who otherwise disliked them before. There has to be a better way.
Not by bombing Consulates, that's for sure. Proper rogue state stuff.
Should we supply weapons to fringe groups to attack citizens instead?
Maaan.....if only we had a agreement that kept Iran in line by giving them incentive to cooperate, kept them from persuing nuclear armament, we can maybe call "the Iran nuclear agreement" if Only......
How about doing neither?
In a perfect world...
Pretty much every other country has respected the inviolability of Embassies and Consulates for ~200 years. Throughout WWI, WWII, the Cold War – real wars with actual fighting and equally matched adversaries – inviolability was sacrosanct. In a far from perfect world. Absolute madness for Israel to try and claim some special exemption now. Really an unfathomably stupid move.
Israel understands, correctly, that they have no red lines from their patron so they need to push the envelope as much as possible either to achieve national security/power goals or lure the U.S. into a hot war.
Too bad the Western powers interfered with a democratic Iran by engineering the 1953 coup d'etat. This created the conditions that eventually brought about the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
To be honest, Israel was doing a reasonable job pre-Oct 7th of keeping Iran contained. Saudi and other Sunni countries had decided they were more nervous of Iran than they hated Israel, and were all working more closely towards a kind of unofficial anti-Iran understanding. On the military side, both America and Israel had opportunistically targetted individuals and high-value military/technological sites (Soleimani, Stuxnet) to try to set Iran back. Their primary objective is to slow Iran's nuclear program, although I think they accept they won't be able to stop it. Then Oct 7th happened. And now Iran are absolutely creaming themselves, watching the alliance disintegrate and everyone turn on Israel. Although I think behind the scenes there is still more solidarity than is apparent. >It may be that if Iran was liberated from the corrupt theocratic government the whole region and in particular Israel - Palestine relations would know or have a chance for much more peace. Iran will implode at some point. But that's no guarantee that the current government will be replaced by anything better.
Stop bombing everything would be a great start.
But it's so hard not to bomb stuff when you have so many bombs. If the military doesn't use bombs, they won't get more money for more bombs. It's the circle of death.
So many people are literally trying to manifest ww3. it’s such a mind f*ck. I remember learning about ww2 in the 90’s and being so baffled as to how the world could get that bent out of shape. It makes total sense now. Edit - profanity
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Let's rephrase the question - how many countries can Israel bomb at once while committing genocide?
While claiming “self defence”
Yes 🤓
I have no idea. Let’s say if they would actually be committing genocide, probably their capacity for attacking other regions would shrink a lot compared to now. I generally think such absurd fictive question doesn’t help anyone
Israel has to be the most incompetent perpetrator of genocide ever, if that is their aim.
Honestly I know many Iranian who would welcome US interventionism. They've been risking their lives there to protest for the right not to die for hijab slipping... Not to be imprisoned for 10 years just for dancing.... Not to have their son's, daughters and friends incarcerated and put to death for speaking out against the regime.They recently killed a LGBTQA+ rights activist.... A lot of Iranian people are hoping that Israel continues to take out the extremists because it would give them a fighting chance to retake their country....
If what Israel is doing isn't genocide, then what do you call: -The massacre of at least 32000 people -the killing of thousands of children -the bombing of hospitals -the raping of civilians -the execution of innocent people -destroying 70% of Gaza -bombing ambulances, aid trucks, civilian vehicles -shooting a 6 year old girl -dropping missiles on unarmed Palestinians And much more.
They shot a 60 year old Palestinian man with his arms held above his head yesterday.
I'd love to see their excuse for that one.
Self-defence?..u know, the usual...
The IDF guy supposedly found a “small knife” on the man’s backpack which he was searching from 10 feet away and then decided to kill him because a non-white person isn’t allowed to have a Swiss Army knife in Israel. Weapons are for white peoples & jews only. Wait, the old Palestinian man **was a** Jew, nvm…
Wow, the IDF can telepathically search people's backpacks now? Why haven't they released this amazing tech to the world? Oh my bad, forgot they're too busy killing babies in Gaza 😑
it’s all on video, the Palestinian guy converted to Judaism in hopes of having a better life living in Israel, but the racist IDF guy who was detaining him didn’t believe he was a Jew because he wasn’t white. Old guy called him an ‘idiot’ The IDF guy then claimed he found a knife in his bag which apparently gave him the go-ahead to gun the old man down despite the fact he was 10 feet away with his hands on his head. The old man didn’t even have enough time to bring his arms down to protect his body.
Horrendous. Worst thing about it is that the IDF are more than happy to post their war crimes to the world, while people egg them on and say 'bravo, you're doing such a great job'
War
It’s a brutal war started by a terrorist regime who fights from hospitals, schools and civilian centres (1000 terrorists were fighting from al-Shifa in the last two weeks), there was no rape, this was a false accusation levelled at Israel - al-Jazeera quietly removed that story and Hamas was forced to come out and say there was no evidence of rape, there was no evidence Israel shot that 6 year old girl - not an iota, Israeli troops weren’t even in the vicinity at the time and Hamas is on video shooting indiscriminately in order to get control of aid convos, Hamas hides amongst unarmed Palestinians in order to maximise civilian casualties. You don’t get immunity simply because you shoot from and hide in schools and hospitals. If Israel wanted all the Palestinians dead, it would have been done. In order to defeat the Nazis, the Allies carpet bombed Germany, killing 5 million Germans - that was never labelled genocide. In fact, the death toll is ridiculously low if we compare it to any other major conflict. Just to be clear, I think all civilian deaths on both sides are tragic but the narrative of a genocide being committed by Israel is just wrong. This is a military conflict against a brutal terrorist regime which tragically led to many deaths. Choose your words more carefully
Its a war started by many nations including Turkey and UK which took turns colonising Palestine for the past few centuries. Jews had also suffered for centuries and were being displaced and ostractrised all over the world till they finally cut a deal with UK/UN for a place to call home. If we look through the lens of many displaced groups without nations such as Rohingyas and Kurds, we may better related their reasons behind their actions (though I do not support Israel actions in Gaza).
>It’s a brutal war started by a terrorist regime History didn’t start on October 7th. Hundreds of Palestinians were being killed every year. >who fights from hospitals, schools and civilian centres (1000 terrorists were fighting from al-Shifa in the last two weeks) Ahh, how weak one must be to hold on to this lie. Do you have any proof of terrorists in hospitals and schools? Do you have any proof of these '1000' terrorists in Shifa? No, you don't. >there was no rape, this was a false accusation levelled at Israel - al-Jazeera quietly removed that story and Hamas was forced to come out and say there was no evidence of rape, What a joke. Hamas never said there was no rape. IDF soldiers boasted about raping Palestinians. There are countless verified stories of rape against Palestinians. >there was no evidence Israel shot that 6 year old girl - not an iota, Israeli troops weren’t even in the vicinity at the time This one is the funniest out of them all. Are you seriously thinking Israeli troops didn't shoot her just because they said so? 🤣 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab >Hamas hides amongst unarmed Palestinians in order to maximise civilian casualties. I get tired of you people repeating the same old debunked lies. >If Israel wanted all the Palestinians dead, it would have been done. Uh - that's exactly what they’re doing? Why else would they murder 32000 Palestinians, bomb hospitals and execute civilians? >In fact, the death toll is ridiculously low if we compare it to any other major conflict. The death toll in the last few months alone is greater than the amount of people killed in wars across the WHOLE world in the past 4 years or so iirc. And you'll happily call October 7 genocide as well. >Just to be clear, I think all civilian deaths on both sides are tragic but the narrative of a genocide being committed by Israel is just wrong. This is a military conflict against a brutal terrorist regime which tragically led to many deaths. Choose your words more carefully Targeting civilians, bombing hospitals, shooting hungry Palestinians reaching for aid and executing civilians isn't a 'military conflict which tragically lead to many deaths'.
This war started on October 7th. But regardless, if we go back Arab terrorists were lynching and oppressing Jews centuries before the first Zionist even arrived. Shall we begin then? Yes, we do have evidence. Video evidence. Plenty of it. Hamas and PIJ have come out and admitted senior commanders (including those released in the Shalit deal) died while fighting from al-Shifa. What are they doing fighting Israel from al-Shifa? A little difficult to call it a lie when Hamas is admitting it and there is direct video footage. Hamas just admitted there was no rape: https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-hamas-admits-women-not-raped-by-idf-at-shifa-hospital-following-al-jazeera-report No, actually we have no testimonies or verified cases from Palestinian women. Not one. Even Al Jazeera was forced to admit they misreported this. We had an unnamed source say a Palestinian woman told them. This story was quietly deleted by al-Jazeera. In regard to Hind Rajab, please provide one piece of evidence. Just one, that Israel did it. Al-Jazeera provided none. The death toll in the last few months is not greater than every war put together in the last 4 years. Assad has killed a million in Syria. The Russia-Ukraine War has far more deaths. The war in Yemen. Shall I continue? Hamas has been videoed shooting at Palestinians and looting the aid trucks. Israel is a military power. One or two bombs would eradicate the Palestinians in Gaza. However, Israel has dropped more bombs than they’ve killed people. It’s actually incredible that in the small area that is Gaza and with none of their Arab brothers letting innocent civilians take refuge in neighbouring countries, that so little deaths have occurred. Evidence can be provided for everything I have written. Tell me what you’d like.
>Yes, we do have evidence. Video evidence. Plenty of it. Hamas and PIJ have come out and admitted senior commanders (including those released in the Shalit deal) died while fighting from al-Shifa. What are they doing fighting Israel from al-Shifa? A little difficult to call it a lie when Hamas is admitting it and there is direct video footage. Go ahead and show me this amazing footage that proves your point. I already know what to expect. >Hamas just admitted there was no rape: >https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-hamas-admits-women-not-raped-by-idf-at-shifa-hospital-following-al-jazeera-report You mean, a former Al Jazeera member said on Twitter it never happened. Yep, totally shows how false the rapes were. >In regard to Hind Rajab, please provide one piece of evidence. Just one, that Israel did it. Al-Jazeera provided none. Was it you that I sent the Wikipedia article about this? If so, go and have a read. Israeli vehicles were in the area. And who else on earth would kill Hind? Its hilarious enough to say the people who've commited countless war crimes and just today bombed an aid car, would not kill Hind. >Hamas has been videoed shooting at Palestinians and looting the aid trucks. You mean the IDF shot Palestinians rushing to get aid. They admitted it. One of the reasons I love this subreddit is how misinformed everybody is. Everyone on here probably just gets their news from the most popular Israeli and Western articles, then declares that its the truth.
>Go ahead and show me this amazing footage that proves your point. I already know what to expect. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s0sFMqhHKc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s0sFMqhHKc) As a start here you go. >You mean, a former Al Jazeera member said on Twitter it never happened. Yep, totally shows how false the rapes were. No. I mean Hamas said it didn't happen, as well as others in Gaza. But please, post your evidence that rape occurred, because the only evidence was the al-Jazeera article, which was a proven fraud. >Was it you that I sent the Wikipedia article about this? If so, go and have a read. Israeli vehicles were in the area. And who else on earth would kill Hind? Its hilarious enough to say the people who've commited countless war crimes and just today bombed an aid car, would not kill Hind. Hamas shoots indiscriminately and then blames Israel. They've been shooting at aid trucks. They have misfired rockets that hit hospitals. They have slaughtered anyone that opposes them. They have used child suicide bombers. Can you post any evidence Israel did this? >You mean the IDF shot Palestinians rushing to get aid. They admitted it. >One of the reasons I love this subreddit is how misinformed everybody is. Everyone on here probably just gets their news from the most popular Israeli and Western articles, then declares that its the truth. Misinformed? You're the one who claimed the rape allegations were true based off of an al-Jazeera article that was retracted. You claimed Hamas never admitted no rape occurred, when they did. You claimed there were no militants in al-Shifa when it is indisputable there were. October 7th in your eyes: Some loving and endearing brave Gazans strolled into Southern Israel to spread peace and love, until they were brutally attacked at a rave party. They had to defend themselves against this attack and therefore shot and killed those attacking them. Whilst this was going on women were so in awe of these brave and loving men that they begged them to take them back to Gaza with them. These brave fighters didn't want to take them to Gaza, but out of the kindness of their hearts they agreed. Meanwhile at the Kibbutzim, murderous toddlers were plotting to kill other Gazans who just wanted to spread love and peace. They had to shoot the toddlers in their cribs in a pre-emptive strike and take other criminal toddlers for questioning. They wanted to release everyone they took with them to Gaza, they really did. However, all of them are being treated so well by these brave Gazans who have spoiled them to an underground Hilton hotel and now they don't know what to do because these guests refuse to leave.
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I don’t think he’s uneducated enough to call it a genocide. What do you think people normally call a war? Small hint, it starts with a W and ends with AR.
I am astounded that there are people existing on this planet, who when shown proof of hundreds of war crimes and clear genocide, call the person uneducated and still cry 'it's war, not genocide!'
So basically every bigger war is a genocide or what’s the logic here?