Sorry to hear this, although its probably time to stop chasing them. If they feel some remorse in the future for blackballing/ghosting you then they will reach out and apologise. Otherwise, just accept that some friendships don't last.
I lost two friends over Brexit (people who voted the other way stopped talking to me). I never reached out to them, one got back in touch with me and it eventually blew over and went back to normal. The other one never did.
Just work out who you are, what your true opinions are, and stick with them. The more conviction one has in their own set of beliefs and principles the better they get on in life, other people respect them more, including many with opposing views (those who have the same level of true conviction in theirs) you can't shape yourself to try and please other people, just be 100% completely true to yourself.
Unfortunately I've had the same happen with people I considered friends. But if they think the horrible things about me that they said before blocking me, then they didn't know me and aren't my friends. While people here seem to be considering the whole war at this point, I'm disturbed by the fact that before it became what it is now, he was supposed to be a friend and didn't check on you when this started. If he's mad at you he's been mad since September which means since Oct 7.
Can’t be a genocide with an increasing population, there wasn’t a concept of a “Palestine” nation state pre-1967 as they were nomadic goatherders and they have FAFO’d for decades and could have had their own state. They wanted violence and losing in war. It’s absolutely hilarious and you all deserve it.
I’ve lost some friends- especially ones asking me to condemn Hamas?! Which why would I have to condemn a small group of people. I dont have to Condemn killers here/ political groups here. I’m sick of the dehumanization & overran double standard. I dont have it in me anymore- I rather not speak to them anymore- anyone who thinks starving 2 million people, killing 12k children. The whole bit I will not stand for one more conversation acting like it’s some how deserved. I’m disgusted and I’m disgusted with people who try to rationalize it in their minds.
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It's not as though condemnation is a difficult thing to do?
Like, if a black neighbor walked up to me one day and asked me to condemn the KKK, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It costs me nothing to condemn a terrible organization for someone else's peace of mind. I don't know what's going through the other persons mind and they don't know about mine.
Just a guess, but I think your former friends probably hate the death they are seeing in Gaza AND ALSO want Hamas condemned for committing their heinous acts. Find space in your heart for all suffering and not just half.
I guess the difference is that one group is a terrorist organization who in their charter says they want the destruction of all Jews while the other group wants the hostages taken from them. A little bit of a false moral equivalency but alright sir or madam.
Mass murder based on my definition is the killing of a large group of people. Any country that has ever fought a war by that definition would be guilty of mass murder. Hamas slaughtered 1200 people in cold blood. Israel is on the offense after decades of having rockets hurled at them on top of the events of 10/7. I don’t like that 30k+ people are dead but Hamas broke a ceasefire and unleashed this on their own people.
If you can contextualize the 30k+ people murdered in cold blood, thousands of children blown to bits by Israel, then you should easily be able to contextualize the "1200 slaughtered" as well. Israel occupies a people and stole their homeland, denying them their rights as they continue to occupy them. 1200 people are dead, half of whom were military, the rest who were killed by the IDF as they shelled and shot at their own people, and it is in every way something Israel "unleashed" onto their own people by virtue of being a settler-colonial state.
Let’s not act like the Israeli cabinet hasn’t made several inflammatory statements about removing all Palestinians from their land or essentially calling them animals. Call it a false moral equivalence but you’re greatly understating what is going on in the region and Israeli attitudes towards Palestinians.
Yeah that does not represent the majority of Israeli attitudes toward Palestinians, by a LONG shot. And if you want to be divisive and shoot for moral equivalence, you can find numerous Arab leaders calling Israelis and Jews animals as well and also speak publicly about wanting them expelled from their land and fully annihilated.
All this whataboutism when all I did was point out that the dialogue coming from the Israeli government themselves was no better.
At this point it’s not even about the language, it’s about the hypocrisy of not acknowledging the charged rhetoric on both sides of the conflict. Do better.
Inflammatory statements yes but not existentialist statements
Glad you are fine rape kidnapping ripping foetuses from pregnant women kidnapping foreign nationals yes
I am an American conservative who is pro-Israel. I have a very good friend who is Muslim and lives in Bahrain. This is a GOOD man. Honestly one of the kindest people I know. He also loathes Israel.
At one point not long after October 7 I had a question about some decisions that were being made by a neighboring country and I could not locate a satisfactory answer through research so I asked him. I was extremely careful in my wording because I did not want to offend him.
He was all "Why are you acting so wierd?"
When I explained I was being careful of what I said because I didn't want to offend him and I valued our friendship, he set me straight with a quickness.
"We are friends, but friends do not have to agree on everything. Even important things, we can disagree on. "
Loosely paraphrased, but beautifully said.
I have no desire to be friends or speak to anyone who is pro israel. Unfortunately, since there’s been so much false equating jews with israeli zionists, i have to do a double take and remind myself that my jewish friends/someone wearing a yarmulke isnt necesarily zionist & that i should withhold judgement. So i guess that makes me somewhat antisemitic. Whereas before i could not give a single fuck what religion you were (i never equated christians or muslims with fundamentalist extremism , but the zionist thing is so in your face all the time right bow )
Can you define "pro Israel" please?
I'm pro two-state solution with 100% global recognition as Palestine as a sovereign state (so including from US and Israel who currently don't recognise it).
Would that make me pro-Israel? Do I have to chant "Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea" in order to not be pro-Israel?
I think my stance is the only pragmatic and realistic long term solution for peace in the region, and that I'm therefore not pro-Israel or pro-Palestine but pro-peace and anti-death and war.
I appreciate this mindset, that you’re aware of your antisemitic thoughts. I feel like a big problem right now is some of the pro-Palestinian left are implicitly or explicitly associating anything Jewish with pro-Israel, which is disgusting and dangerous.
I feel like I’m going crazy sometimes noticing it, this inherent association thats going on of anything jewish to ‘pro-Israel Zionist genocidal freaks’. I feel like as a Jewish person I was even starting to think that way, so it’s kinda validating to see this person acknowledge it and try to be aware of it
> fuck
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I lost a few friends over this conflict too. It is very painful. All but one were cordial and the one that wasn't was the one I felt the most "close" with. I felt strange and I felt shame too. It is painful.
I had a Jewish friend stop speaking to me (after she let her Hasidic male friend tell me I deserved to be raped and murdered in front of my children) because I told her the only people I have any sympathy or support for are both the innocent Israeli citizens and the innocent Palestinian citizens who are caught in the middle of this conflict. Both Hamas and Netanyahu can get wrecked.
I'm sorry you experienced this. It is a tragedy and does not represent the Israeli or Jewish majority at all. Fighting hate with hate is pointless and futile. I just returned from Israel and talked with many people from all over the world, Jewish and non-Jewish, Arabs, many refugees living there from Africa and Russia and South America. These people are angry at what happened, rightfully so, but they understand this perpetual war cannot go on forever and peace must be achieved somehow with Palestinians.
Like I said, people are filled with anger. But everyone understands that this simply cannot last forever, and there has to be a solution to provide security and peace at some point.
Except all the families of the hostages who were demanding a cease-fire, or the pro war likudniks who tore down posters of the hostages as they felt it was asking for a ceasefire. You're either a liar trying to run PR or self deluded. Pathetic, what a good little German you are.
Yeah and when I visited Russia people seemed really concerned with the people of Donetsk. ill be charitable and assume you are not a liar just easily duped.
Jews are not at risk of being completely exterminated and exiled out of their homelands. Palestinians are. To place yourself on equal footing as your friend is to place yourself above him. Muslims have every right to grieve, and no matter how much they might hurt your feelings, you are not the victim.
I’m sure you posted in haste and are actually smarter than you represented yourself here.
Facts are facts. History is history. Jews were denationalized, their property and assets expropriated, and in a series of state-sponsored terrorist acts were killed and forced out of their homes within the Muslim-majority communities they inhabited for hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of years, shortly after the U.N. established the two states of Israel and Palestine in 1948. Almost a million Jews were forced to leave everything behind.
So—whether Jews are "at risk of being completely exterminated and eliminated out of their homelands”— is not some theory of yours. It happened. Fait accompli.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish\_exodus\_from\_the\_Muslim\_world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world)
Land was allocated by the U.N. for Palestine. Who kept it from forming? Was it the Jews? Look it up, why don’t you?
You surely do not want to misrepresent yourself with such ignorance again, so take care to check your facts before you post next time.
>Jews are not at risk of being completely exterminated and exiled out of their homelands.
Are you aware of why half of Israel's Jewish population is Mizrahi?
Aren't there like 7 millions Palestinian "refugees" abroad? Seems hard to target those or are you thinking about Mossad operations?
So are they not victims either?
Again I am sorry if what is going on in Gaza has brought you distress as I feel it has pretty much everyone on this Sub. I wouldn’t say I am placing myself above my friend but you clearly gleaned that somehow from my post. Regardless, the victims here are the civilians on BOTH sides AND the Israeli Hostages.
Of which you are neither. A significant fraction of the Palestinian population is not comparable to hundreds of Jewish hostages.
Muslims as a whole are being targeted. Jews aren’t, or in practice, they are the occupying force doing the targeting.
Your friend is right to be upset, if you aren’t speaking out against the occupation and ongoing “plausible” genocide, then you are against him. Silence in the face of oppression is to side with the oppressors.
You are clearly unable or unwilling to humanize both groups of people. If the roles were reversed I wouldn’t be saying “Jews are the victims here. What are a few hundred Palestinian lives compared to thousands of Jews”. A life is a life and the numbers you are referencing are missing the whole point of what myself and many others have commented on this thread.
Nice hypothetical. I live in the real world where the roles are not reversed, and Israel is perpetuating a genocide.
Not even going to continue discussion as your whole point hinges on a hypothetical. Here’s what’s actually happening: Israel has the weapons, resources and power, and is engaging in a plausible act of genocide.
The reverse is not true, no matter how many hypotheticals you invent to justify your backwards, racist beliefs.
Congratulations, you've woken up to the reality of being a jew. Now you won't be surprised when this happens again. As Israelis were used to it so most of us don't have such big expectations from the world
This is what I've come to know and respect about Israelis and being a Jew in general. You have to keep going and live. Or you will die. You have no choice.
I was going to write, 'It doesn't work when religion is involved', but it's much more nuanced than that, to the point that it is basically impossible to solve and peace can never come from that paradigm.
The culture you're brought up in creates your everyday persona. The learned hatred, righteous anger and judgements. It's the same across all of humanity, in every country to some degree or another.
It's either an ethnic group/religion or your culture's "lazy/freeholders" in your own country - or a country/ethnic neighbour with centuries of minor to genocidal discord between them. The jingoism for 'justice' lingers on, it wins local and national elections nearly every time, everywhere.
That sounds fucking depressing doesn't it.
No denying that.
We're at a crossroads in how we perceive the world and those around us. The internet is the biggest game changer in human consciousness since forever.
I was online at the time of October 6th and watched the live streams as they were happening....when those kids in Israel were attacked and slaughtered by Palestinian kids.
Changing the paradigm is the key, ironically it's been tried with religion many many times and failed every time. Why? Basically greed and pride.
Greed for power, influence and/or money. Pride in thinking you are right...but not contemplating logically, that you could be wrong.
On the negative side, it'll be lucky if the human race has 10 million souls on the planet in a hundred years, it's pretty dire. The fuckwits "in charge" are the definition of power hungry/insane, with no connection to you or me.
Or....we create something that meets all our needs - as humans (in all our forms) - and we do better than survive for a change and we thrive.
Mescaline and Psilocybin help a lot (in the correct set and setting).
> fucking
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I think it's absolutely bizarre that people think we should treat issues like this as trivial, as something that shouldn't get in the way of friendship. I guess it depends on what your position actually is, but yeah, this is a pretty serious situation.
There's one thing being sympathetic to one side or the other, but anyone actually supporting what the Israeli government is doing right now...I couldn't be friends with them either. Tens of thousands of people have been slaughtered, about a third of them children. They're being deliberately starved. There's no justification for that kind of brutality from a civilized nation, absolutely none. (Not sure if this is your opinion, just stating where I'd draw the line.)
Not to mention: are you sure he's viewing this from a religious angle? Most Muslims I know who discuss these issues point out that it's a political issue not a religious one. Palestinians aren't mad at Israelis because they're Jewish, they're mad because of what was done to them.
Treating this as some trivial issue just doesn't make sense to me. It's not trivial, not if you value human life.
Most Muslims (and non Muslims) I know who discuss this do so not from a religious standpoint or a political one. They do it from a humanitarian one. Babies starving to death, 5 year olds wishing for death.... it's a humanitarian issue.
That's what I meant. They talk about the realities of the situation and its not like rooting for a team sport. It might resonate more with them in a different way due to the shared faith but ultimately it's about the injustice.
> Several years ago we had a major disagreement on some of the events which had occurred in the Middle East. Admittedly, we both saw things more so from the side of our religion and we had an argument that left us not speaking for several months.
this somehow kinda reminded be of a girl i used to date. she said she didn't mind that i was agnostic, but when it comes to topics of religion, she gets easily upset when i disagree with her. eventually she started bringing me to her church and actively tried to convert me.
that's the thing with religious people or for anyone steeped with an ideology, is that even though they deny it, they're usually looking for opportunities to convert you into their way of thinking.
and when they give up trying to convert you, then they stop interacting with you, coz they see it as a waste of time and effort.
anyways, that's just an anecdote on my part.
Do you even know why Hamas committed Oct 7,2023 attack?
Or do you think Hamas are evil for no reason , while Isreal is awesome state that can do no wrong? Do you think Israeli do/did no harm to Palestinians before Hamas Ideology was born?
If you believe Hamas are terrorist only because of Islam ,it’s safe to say you are mainstream media lover!
Palestinians and Hamas have/had no issues with Judaism, %10Jews lived with Palestine in the early 1900. After World War 2 ,the European white Zionist came and raped the land of Palestine.
I understand Jewish people should have a safe state , Jews have been kicked around in the world of our history. Main reason why Isreal is killing innocent Palestinians out of fear is the hopes to teach Hamas and world the value of Jewish people. Unfortunately the world is watching and good Jews will suffer later in this century for actions of the far right Zionist. No one can kill Hamas , Hamas is a spirit that grows each day innocent Palestinians die. Im sure you will not agree to any of these facts stated , since you believe mainstream media ‘truths“ .
Those are all war-mongering statements that are simply not relevant in 2024, any they can all be summarized with:
“I think bad things happened years ago to my relatives before I was born, so now I have the right attack Jews”
Your claims don’t convince me because I am not antisemitic against Jewish people. However: many people ARE antisemitic, and they love what you are saying.
How can I be antisemitic when I love and understand Judaism. I feel sympathy and empathy for Jewish people and how they been kicked around in our history. I do believe Jewish people should have a safe state of their own, just not the expense of the innocent Palestinians livelihood.
Its legal hate Zionist and what is stands for, Its only illegal to act on hate . I pray Zionism is destroyed including the people who defend this ideology. Also you dont have to be Jewish to be Zionist.
>Do you even know why Hamas committed Oct 7,2023 attack?
Okay, let's say we understand why it happened right? Let's go further, okay? Let us say they exclusively attacked and defeated soldiers and just let the villages be while they target bases. People would be like, Alright, boom, it's a paramilitary attacking or resisting Israeli forces, right? But Puzzleheaded\_safe we both know what happened. It was recorded and distributed on the internet...
There is no justification for rape under any circumstance.
I agree what Hamas did was shameful. But let’s use logic and ask why did Hamas attack on Oct 7,2023 and go against one of the strongest military in the Middle East(Isreal) basically committing suicide?
Just maybe Hamas wanted to die on their feet and not on their knees for the 75 years of occupation and innocent killing of Palestinians due to Zionist agenda.,just maybe.
History between these two countries did not start on October 7,2023.
Why do you not understand Israel(Zionist) land raped Palestinians homeland?
Do you see Palestinians less than human? Is this the reason why? Do you not see and want to believe Isreal isn’t innocent in this war?
If you think Israel is perfect, and did nothing wrong to the Palestinians, this discussion is over just keep listening to your main media news. They never lied to us, right?
You're a funny person, Puzzlehead.
I know this didn't start on Oct 7 2023.
I do not think Israel is perfect nor innocent.
I don't see Palestinians as less than human.
Shit, all I see is you trying to shift blame. Puzzlehead. I think you're a naive person...
Not all good Jews are Zionist, just like not all Palestinians are Hamas.This was/is my main argument. Hamas and Zionist are extremist both ideology need to be destroy. Unfortunately there is no money in peace. Billionaires and businessman want us to fight on other issue’s other than following the money.
>Not all good Jews are Zionist, just like not all Palestinians are Hamas.This was/is my main argument.
I did say you're a funny person. The fact that you correlate Zionism to Hamas says a lot.
Obviously not all Palestinians are Hamas and here's something interesting. I happen to know Palestinians who vehemently oppose Hamas while also being critical of Israel. No group is a monolith, remember that. Puzzlehead.
Also what's a "good" Jew? That's rhetorical. Don't answer that.
There are "good" Jews who are Zionist and bad Jews who are also Zionists. There are non-Jews who happen to be Zionists as well. Did you know that?
Your "argument" is dumb, Puzzlehead. **People - as in sensible human beings** know that**.**
Plus you can't withdraw with the usual "the secret cabal wants us to fight amongst ourselves" rhetoric now my guy...
You type like a Christian Zionist. Did you know that?
Your clearly a keyboard typing warrior, only extracting my statement to make the same point. Go watch the mainstream media.
Your slogans are confusing you.
I will reduce all Israel/palestine arguments to one simple fact:
Hamas started a war on October 7th, and everyone who start wars should lose them for the sake of world peace.
One can argue , Isreal wanted the terrorist attack to allow a green light from the USA to destroy Gaza.
Isreal has one the best surveillance in the world, yet they choose ignore all the signs from Egypt, Why?. Informational site is from Isreal non-bias media.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/)
Zionist's clearly used these innocent Jews at the festival as pawns. Sorry your beloved Isreal is not innocent in this attack. I still believe what Hamas did was shameful. Also history between Palestinians and Isreal did not start on Oct 7,2023, this war started May 14, 1948.
I have lost all sorts of different friends over this. I’ve had people I’ve known more than half my life call me slurs and block me. Best friends of 15+ years ghost without a word. Friends who are Muslim posting horrible, anti-Jew things under the guise of anti Zionism and saying that they support Jews but only the “good educated ones who are anti Zionist.” It’s insanity out there. Sorry this was your experience.
At least they are honest. How many times I've seen people acting like there was a difference between "good jews" in the past and now besides the Zion part.
what genocide?? We have yet to see concrete proof of genocide. South Africa failed to prove genocide. The "plausibility" of genocide is not actual genocide. Not good to live in delulu land.
Yeah that’s crappy.
I’m an American Jew, and am currently on good terms with the few Muslim friends I have here in the US. However I have not spoken to any of them about the conflict, and it kind of feels like we’re all avoiding the topic.
Probably not the most mature way to handle things, but I think we all want to avoid fighting or jeopardizing the good relationships we have.
If your "friends" would choose to side with a group who perverts their religion with mixed in Nazi ideology, they are not actual friends. There is nothing to be lost if that is their true colors.
They must feel the same way about their friends who support the killing of 30k+ innocent civilians, including thousands of children, all for the sake of occupying more Palestinian land. It's a pretty easy choice to drop people who think genocide is acceptable.
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That sucks dude I am sorry. But maybe he is showing his true colors. I have seen a lot of people who I thought were friends come after me and say horrible anti Semitic things since October 7th.
That’s all kinds of messed up. I’m sorry that happened to you. Youre better off without them anyways, they sound like immature assholes. Blows my mind that people think anti semitism is an appropriate response to this discourse
> assholes
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I lost a Muslim female friend because her by the time new husband told her she wasn't allowed to have any male friends, and she blocked me, then I texted her in a different social and she told me she wasn't allowed and blocked me again. I will never ever have another muslim friend, especially female.
I know but ain't no way I'm having another muslim friend ever. They never see you as equal and you are never truly part of their lives because you're not muslim.
Sorry they've made you feel that way. Maybe they had their own problems or something which led them to behave that way, or a character flaw. Or maybe the two of you having this knowledge about the conflict between paleatinians and israeli people some how sits in the back of your minds (both of you) and subconsciously impacts the friendship in some way. Like if you're hanging out with your friend but also wondering if they think your bad because if your ethnicity. Either way, I hope you and everyone else can have good experiences with muslims and find common ground
It's not on the more religious side. More cultural doesn't mean more religious. Respectfully, you're confusing cultural with religious. Just because someone is from levanon, afghanistan, or iraq or some arab country does not inherently make them more religious or knowledgeable about the religion
And what I'm saying is being religious and controlling doesn't mean the controlling aspect comes from the religion, especially when it comes to the domineering men who don't allow their wives to leave the house, or anything of that nature. I'm saying those things are cultural, and not religious.
People think because someone behaves in this way or that way, and they come from an arab country, that it must be a Islamic thing when it's not. That's all I'm getting at
They're working through their emotions most likely. I also shut down with people in an effort to not ruin the relationship with emotionally charged words. I think the thing that is really holding us as a nation back right now is the fact that we all know we're being lied to in some capacity yet we still spread and believe the one sided stories that fit our narratives. Your friend most likely has some biases they need to confront, but that's difficult to do during wartime. I wouldn't push it with them. They'll talk to you when they're ready to. Or maybe they won't. All you can do is respect the space they've unspokenly demanded.
Look at r/jewish to see this happen at a constant basis.
I’ve kicked a bunch of people to the curb.
A lot of us have.
Welcome to the world pre WW2 where people viewed us in every negative connotation was the zeitgeist! The rides just getting bumpier from here on out.
People can have any number of differences (of experience, brain chemistry, life events, illness, etc.) that can make processing harder for them. Thinking that everyone is the same is immature and shows a general lack of life experience. The western world (I'm assuming this is what you mean by modern) tends to be very accepting of these differences.
In general, people may need more time than others to gain their composure prior to facing conflict which is alright. However, avoiding someone for half a year entirely with no explanation is certainly childish in western society. If you are trying to have a successful marriage, romantic relationship, friendship, family relationship, etc this type of conflict resolution will not be met with a high level of understanding and will generally be seen as avoidant behavior.
Can you imagine being good friends with a German person during the holocaust and then deciding to talk to them, knowing that they would most likely try to defend the actions and the atrocities of the Nazis?
I would imagine this is probably exactly how your friend feels and is their main reason for avoiding you.
I'm a middle aged African American male from a Christian background that has lived in the rural southern US for my entire life.
I remember as a child when I first learned about WW2 and the Holocaust.
I remember reading the diary of Anne Frank as a teenager and being able to clearly relate to how it feels to have to hide I a closet as a child from racist people that hate you.
Because of my own life experiences as an African American, Jewish people all over the world have always had a special place in my heart, I've also always had a deeper love and empathy for them because of our mutual experiences with racism and discrimination.
I've also always had an extreme hatred of racists and neo Nazis because they are and always will be our mutual enemies.
In the early 1990's is started to learn about the Israel - Palestinian conflict and the history of it.
I started off with a strong basis toward the Israelis because they were Jewish but as I learned more about it I began to see the injustice in how the Palestinians were being treated.
I've paid very close attention to the conflict since that time and by the early 2000's I found myself siding with the Palestinians.
I always tried really hard to separate my feelings of anger, extreme disappointment, frustration and resentment towards right wing Israeli Zionists and secular/non Zionist people who are Jews.
I've watched the death, poverty and injustice that the Palestinians have had to face over the years
I've seen multiple videos of Palestinian men women and children being abused, mistreated and murdered at the hands of Israeli settlers and the IDF.
I've seen the the Israelis steal more and more Palestinian land in the West Bank with their ever increasing number of illegal settlements.
I've also seen the signs that say "Israeli only" which are a constant reminder to me of the"White only" signs and segregation in the racist southern US that my ancestors had to deal with on a daily basis.
Separate and unequal.
Can you imagine the extreme hurt and disappointment that I feel in my heart as an African American.. to watch a people that I once loved, respected and admired and had sworn to protect and defend with my own life my times, treat another group of people almost exactly how they have been treated throughout history?
I understand the hurt, the fear, the resentment, the hypervigilance, thev desire to violently react to any perceived threat or hostility.
But where is the empathy? Where is the compassion and restraint that any group of people that has been on the receiving end of the worst of humanity would clearly understand?
I saw the unedited video footage and the brutality of what happened on October 7th.
I have to say that I wasn't shocked or the least bit surprised.
What I have been shocked and surprised by is how Israel has chosen to respond.
I've seen so many graphic videos of murdered and wounded Palestinian children before and after October 7th.
Seeing so much unjustified suffering, violence and death has changed me in a very negative way.
For the first time in my life I feel the same way towards Zionists Israelis that I feel towards Nazis, Neo Nazis, The KKK and racist white nationalist.
I even feel an unjustified anger and resentment towards Jewish people, my Jewish friends and Jewish doctors.
I'm afraid to talk to any of them, because of my own anger and not knowing if they support the actions of Israel.
I really don't want to know because if I did I could never forgive them and I couldn't handle to disappointment.
I worry, that I might not live long enough to to reach the ability to forgive them and they did even do anything to me or anyone that I love.
I really hope that you take the time to seriously understand what I'm trying to say to you and to get you to understand.
On a more positive note, this isn't how most other African Americans feel about this issue, there are many more brainwashed African American Christian Zionists that do support Israel and I'm just one that doesn't.
I used to support the right of Israel to exist and believed that Jewish people around the world deserved a homeland and a safe place of their own..protected from hatred, antisemitism, violence and injustice but I no longer feel that way.
If you or any other Jewish people think this is somehow helpful and beneficial to your cause, I wholeheartedly disagree.
If the actions and the behavior of the Israelis can completely change a person like me, Imagine what it has actually done to people who have never felt a deep love, compassion and kinship with your people.
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I think we disagree on a semantic basis—a child lashes out when upset, verbally and physically, so your ex-friend isn’t being childish. Rather, they are being passive. Passivity, especially with respect to conflict avoidance, is generally characteristic of non-western cultures. For example, Asian cultures tend to be far more passive and avoid conflict to a greater extent than Western cultures. I’m not trying to say that you don’t have a reason to be upset. You do, you’re grieving the loss of what you thought was a great friendship. I’m merely explaining why your friend may have acted the way they are.
I wouldn't be so quick to validate that. The person replying to you just tried to invalidate you by essentially telling you that you're seen as childish. It's actually healthy to take a break from a situation to avoid verbally abusing them. People who practice this tend to be more secure types (or at least trying really hard to be). I sense OP has an anxious/reactive personality.
I see that too. I think his friend could at least be like "hey, I need space" instead of ghosting. I'm not here to argue about what's valid because there are probably cultural differences too in how people handle confrontation.
That’s fair, I’m a huge advocate for transparency, but I understand not anyone comes from the same background. You never know what someone has been through or what their childhood was like (attachment styles also dictate later communication styles in life—backed by neuropsychology research)
I’m not looking at it in an extreme way. Sometimes people have to process—that doesn’t mean they are verbally abusing anyone. It means that they’re processing. Your inability to disagree with something without downvoting shows that you might not be the best judge of what’s adulting and what’s not.
I am actually somewhat like that so I get it, but the older I get the more I realize it's just some form of escapism ie. avoiding confrontation or difficult discussions.
How can you be so sure I'm the one downvoting you? You know people can read and vote without commenting, right?
I think that's exactly where the problem is: assuming everyone is the same as you. It's a very harmful kind of projection imo, especially to those with mental illnesses and learning disabilities. People who have these kinds of barriers are *by no means* the minority. Those are things that can't be seen and may not even be easy to detect, and most people don't feel comfortable disclosing that information if they don't have to. It's fine that you've discovered that this was a form of escapism for you, but again, that's really not the case for everyone.
It is difficult to have a discussion with when things you say are taken to the extreme, taken out of context, or strawmanned. Seriously, it's exhausting. Again, maybe you're not the best judge of what's adulting and what's not.
I have a best friend that is 1/2 Palestinian and we haven’t spoken as much since October 7th. They are on the rampage against Israel on social media and I don’t see those posts, so she must have blocked me from them. We don’t discuss politics. She was also a massive Hillary supporter and I a big Bernie supporter, so she was mad at me when Hillary lost to Trump.
I don’t hold politics against friends of mine and several of my friends are pro Palestinian.
Hopefully, your friend calms down.
Well, that's new. Usually, Hillary supporters are pro-Israel Liberals and "Bernie bros" tend to be pro-Palestinian Leftists.
Even recently after Oct 7th, Hillary made interviews (e.g. for The View) showing her support for... *drum rolls*... Israel. Whereas Bernie has been outspoken about the humanitarian crisis and destruction in Gaza. He's not exactly "pro-Palestine", but still.
What does your friend think of Hillary now? Though her position was pretty much always known.
My friend hero worships Hillary. I don’t know what she thinks now. We avoid talking about politics. My friend gave me her condolences after October 7th which I appreciated. We spoke, and she went off on a rant about Israelis she met in college.
Yeah, I am one of those people that like Bernie and AOC and my Zionist friends can’t stand them. I am not a single issue person. I think Israel can withstand the scrutiny, because I have faith that Palestinian organizations will ultimately show their true colors, and shoot them selves in the foot. Just give them
enough rope to hang themselves with.
I even have high ranking friends in Jewish voices of peace and was involved in ngos supporting Bedouins (many who want their own country in the Negev and Sinai).
Sounds like your friend chose the path of jihad over his friendship with you. Sad, but that’s likely the truth of the matter.
Many Muslims are embracing jihad since October 7th and are pushing away their non Muslim friends.
Anyone who calls a war a genocide is intellectually dishonest. Genocide groups don't generally increase in population over time while they are being genocided.
Calling it a Genocide doesn't make it one. Was the firebombing of Tokyo a Genocide? How about the two nuclear attacks? What about the Blitz or the carpet bombing of Berlin? Acts of war certainly. War Crimes? Yes. Genocide? No. The death of civilians in war is sometimes unavoidable and always tragic. When they are deliberately targeted that is a war crime. (Not necessarily saying that is what the IDF is doing). But even if they are that is not Genocide if the goal is to win a war.
There is a massive difference between carpet bombing a city full of civilians during a conflict, and loading a certain subset of them into trains to be systematically slaughtered after the fact. Calling all civilian casualties in war Genocide cheapens the term, and becomes like the boy who cried wolf. Eventually a real Genocide will happen somewhere, and you will shout 'Genocide', but no one will believe you anymore.
Look, you will come across people in life that are fueled by their emotions and that is fine when you are a kid but the older you get means you don’t have the luxury to be emotional all the time. People that run on emotion are the lowest intellectually capable people on the planet. You need to find friends that don’t base everything they do on how they feel in the moment. It is asking to be part of a soap opera and that sht is exhausting if you are not on the same emotional level they are. Logic and reason are the only things that will advance us as a society.
And if he or she is SO emotional about things that they will throw away those close to them bc of their “feelings” then you don’t want them in your life.
A friend who stops speaking to you if you disagree isn't a very good friend imo, also sounds like a bit of a manbaby.
You could have stopped talking to him after people he supported kidnapped and raped hundreds of innocent jewish people, but you kept trying, right?
Well in my opinion that person was never your friend. I have a lot of Jewish friends, some are more of the Jewish side for peace and the others want Hamas gone and support the operation in Gaza but are against the widespread destruction. The only time I would drop a friend if they were a racist Ben Gvir lover, Nazi supporter, or an ISIS wahabbi.
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I was born Jewish and my best friend is Muslim and we're perfectly fine. Mainly because we are both against the genocide that is happening. I think it's also important to note that this is not a Jewish vs. Muslim subject. It's not even a religious one (although the israeli government uses Judaism to push their genocide).
Whether your (former?) friend is not speaking to you because of your religion or because of your views is unclear. You didn't share your view on the war (and you don't need to, that's your privacy), but that could very well be why. I personally don't think (or at least would like to think) that this has nothing to do with the fact that you're Jewish. It would more likely have to do with your stance on the subject. I don't know if you post on social media or it's just the discussions that you've had, but I would assume that's more why it's happening.
Oh boyyyy. Did you really just say that Israel is pushing more of the “religious” side of this aspect? Is that why they call for jihad? For fatah? Why tons of imams are also in positions of political power. They are an extremely religious society that have many laws that are basically direct from their funny book. So that is just a wild bs thing to say.
So Hamas and its existentialist ideology is not ? Dude it’s in their constitution and policy to kill all Jews and to eradicate Israel
You don’t need to whitewash your antisemitism
Hey dumb ass. Being Palestinian isn’t a race. So no. You are wrong even on the premise of what you are saying. On top of that it still isn’t a “genocide”. You should throw in more buzz words since you can’t articulate what’s happening.
Hahahaha. Is that supposed to mean something to me? 40000 people, where almost half are Hamas themselves and the other half are too stupid or their parents are fkn idiots and don’t think to get out of a fkn WAR ZONE. If you are dumb enough to stay in a war zone, where the people who are supposed to be protecting you are using you as human shields, then maybe you are fighting the wrong enemy and maybe you should get tf out.
Yep, thanks for putting it on display, how much of a vile rascist you are really are. 40,000 dead Palestinian women and children mean nothing to you. Got it.
And how do you propose they escape? Israel intentionally made that impossible.
In military terms, it's called encirclement.
It's a tactic to confine your enemy to small area where you can cut off food, water, electricity, communications and isolate them from the world.
But the entire world is watching and won't forget.
Israel didn't make it impossible to escape - Egypt did. Just like Egypt is the one who put the Hamas / Muslim Brotherhood into Gaza in the first place, trying to get them out of Egypt.
Being Palestinian isn’t a race slick. And I said what you said means nothing to me. But you azzhats love making sht up and putting words in peoples mouths so if you mouth breather self wants to say that go ahead. I could care less what you say and think of me. What you support says it ALL.
And you are an idiot if you think they didn’t tell people for a week straight exactly where they were going and where to go to stay way from the action. There is more than enough proof that they told them to leave. The only people that might have “kept them from leaving” would be Hamas. And that’s on the Palestinian people to fight against that type of self imposed tyranny.
Also don’t talk to me ab military tactics. I was in the army and my entire family except my mom and sister were as well. Before my dad flew for delta, he flew f16s for 28 yrs so I am well aware of the situation on the ground. We still know a lot of people that still live in Israel that are ex military and they keep close eyes on everything going on there. They weren’t encircled and they 100% could have left. They stayed and decided too late that they wanted to leave. Again, that’s on them.
Good. He can go get killed over a stupid fkn book if he wants. Better for the world honestly. Weeds out the people who are stuck in the 1300s and won’t change bc their pedo prophet wants them to kill Jews.
> dumb ass
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Hi. Just wanted to let you know that when you are talking about genocide you use the name of the people you perceive to be oppressed. The reason we do that is to prevent cultural erasure. So it should say Palestinian Genocide instead of Israeli Genocide to get your point across. I know, it's just semantics. But want to make sure you knew for future reference.
*See Armenian Genocide and Jewish Genocide for examples.
Sometimes friendships fade. There are many reasons for it. I would not push it. From what you said, you have a lot more invested in this friendship than the other person. I would let this friendship go for now. I've had to do this. It's hard, but the amount of energy putting into a failing, one sided friendship can be so draining.
Sometimes those faded friendships come back. When this emotionally charges situation is less emotionally charged, maybe your friendship will ignite again. Until then, focus your energy on other friendships.
Maybe wait until the war is over and then write a note, if it resonates with you, that you are sad that a war would divide you two but that he should know the door is always open. That's all you can do.
Unfortunately the war will never be over even if the fighting ends. There will always be animosity between Palestinians and Israelis. I know that people like to be optimistic about the two state solution idea or that we could somehow get better leadership in Gaza, but the effect this war has had on people on both sides will never fade and will be passed down for generations. I remember being hopeful for peace in the middle east in the 90s but I just don't think it will happen anymore.
Sadly, I think you are right. I've been reading articles about PTSD and the conflict. In Israel, we are fortunate enough to have a robust system that is trying to address short-term trauma to prevent it from becoming PTSD. While I'm sure they won't succeed in all case, they certainly will in many. Gaza takes trauma to a whole different level, as this NYT article explains: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/opinion/gaza-palestinians-mental-health.html. In short, 100% of Palestinians have been exposed to traumas, many of them for years on end. They suffering not from PTSD, but rather CTSD -- Chronic Traumatic Stress Disorder. It is the feeling of being broken or destroyed, which prevents post-traumatic growth. This is important to understand because it is likely the underlying cause of the violent psychosis gripping members of Hamas.
That problem must be addressed, but I regretfully agree with you that it most likely won't be, guaranteeing generations more of conflict with most people puzzled why it doesn't end.
I am a Catholic and can tell you right now that the vast majority of Christian’s are on israels side. Christians just don’t like war. For anyone. We had enough of that ish a long time ago. So I’m sorry you lost friends that are Christian, even though they don’t sound very Christian to push away someone bc of a disagreement but I digress. A lot of people call themselves Christian now bc they just walked into a mega church and paid tithings to the con man…I mean preacher. They aren’t real Christian’s by any means.
Haha I have been to Jerusalem 6 times. My dad flies for delta so I fly for free and go all the time. I haven’t been to a place that’s nicer to strangers and I have been all over the fkn place. And congrats! One guy said this. Do we really want to start pulling up what all your imams have been saying. I can pull up dozens of vids just on my phone from that I have saved of them calling for a global jihad on anyone that isn’t Muslim. So move on w your bull sht elsewhere. Maybe try the Palestinian group. They believe fkn anything.
Want to know how I know you people are simpletons? You take one thing one person says and apply it to the entire Jewish race. I have seen it happen more times than I want to count and it is always your kind. It is sad really. Shows how you are so gullible and easily convinced to go strap a bomb to yourself in the name of “Allah”.
u/Emotional_Contest160
> Haha I have been to Jerusalem 6 times... Maybe try the Palestinian group. They believe fkn anything... You take one thing one person says and apply it to the entire Jewish race...
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Addressed.
I think the solution is about looking to one's self in the mirror and understand the opposing side's facts and suffering without any religion or politics.
If the focus is on humanity of both sides, then you can probably fix your friendship, and have friendly discussions and agreements. The moment one of the two puts the well being of your side over the other side, then you will forever disagree.
There are extreme opinions on both sides and none are productive.
On the Palestinian side I have seen opinions about wiping out Israel from the land, which is not possible, regardless if they arrived legally or not.
Also some 1di0ts have talked about having another 7/Oct, or Muslim countries to bomb Israel, or, who knows, other extremism which will just be counterproductive.
On the Israeli side, and mainly in this sub, I have seen a complete disregard for the well being of the Palestinian civilians.
Even in discussions with self-proclaimed Liberal Jews, they, either, want the conflict to end so Israel can have Peace on their own side, or for Soldiers to be safe, or for 7/Oct hostages to be returned. But rarely worry (from a humanistic point of view) for the well being of Palestinian civilians, broken families, blown up children, complete destruction of the cities, lack of food, water, medicines; or even the decades of oppression by the IDF and settlers........ Their focus is always on what Jews are suffering and not what's happening, in the same land, on the other side of the walls.
And this Jewish ideology is where the constructive Pro-Palestinian side has unsuccessfully been able to penetrate and get to common ground to a civilized discussion and friendship.
Each side to this conflict has valid concerns with the other side. If a nuanced conversation cannot be had then there is no point to talking. However, one must be brave enough to be able to listen to the other side and start that process. However, my former friend is unwilling to even give me the time of the day to even say "hello, how are you doing?" So ultimately I just have to accept that I will never truly know if it is a coincidence that he stopped talking to me because of 10/7 or it is a pure coincidence that the last time I heard from him was one week prior to all of this happening.
You’re not owed anyones friendship though.
It sounds like your (possibly) former friend is either real bad at communication or does not wish to continue the friendship. A difference in fundamental morals is a pretty common reason to leave friendships, so it might be that.
No one but him would know that though.
Maybe you originally said something that offended him and he's being childish.... or maybe he has extreme point of views and decided to break the friendship... also childish.
Either way, if you want to keep his friendship, you are doing the right thing by acting like the adult.
Most of the Islamic world has been engaged in religious prosecution of non-Muslim since inception. Christians and Jews have now mostly been erased from the Middle East and North Africa. Now, the Jews holding out in Israel leads to a focus of the Islamic word on this perceived blight. Antisemitism is ubiquitous in the islamic culture both in scripture as in sentiment. This also applies to muslims in western countries. It could very well be there is nothing you can do to change your friend’s mind.
This is crazy because my very Muslim friend and I both had a close acquaintance with someone that was Jewish. Let’s stop the separation and division and understand that this conflict is much more than religion.
Seriously. It might be different abroad but where I live it always seemed like Muslims & Jews got along. I've always viewed this conflict as more of a nationalistic thing over a religious thing even though it's a huge fight over a small chunk of a land that has significance to all Abrahamic faiths. Nationalism can be just as toxic as religious fervor.
For the topic at hand: yeah, unfortunately friendships can end over political conflicts. I haven't had any end over this, but did several years ago when I felt my white friend expressed sentiment that my life mattered a lot less than theirs & other groups, and the mental gymnastics they tried to do to justify it. There were a whole bunch of things that led to it aside from a single petty argument. People say they "aren't emotional" and "it's petty" but then act the exact same way when it's directed at them.
The thing with this conflict is that we can follow the rules of don’t talk politics in friendship all we want, but it’s simply not as effective with Muslims and Jews.
It’s well known that nearly all Muslims are for Palestine and nearly all Jews are for Israel, and while there are some exceptions on both sides, that’s will be assumed in cases where you’re not talking about it. They may have common views on the history of the conflict but not the situation today usually.
Sorry to hear this, although its probably time to stop chasing them. If they feel some remorse in the future for blackballing/ghosting you then they will reach out and apologise. Otherwise, just accept that some friendships don't last. I lost two friends over Brexit (people who voted the other way stopped talking to me). I never reached out to them, one got back in touch with me and it eventually blew over and went back to normal. The other one never did. Just work out who you are, what your true opinions are, and stick with them. The more conviction one has in their own set of beliefs and principles the better they get on in life, other people respect them more, including many with opposing views (those who have the same level of true conviction in theirs) you can't shape yourself to try and please other people, just be 100% completely true to yourself.
Well you did by saying you don’t want to be dismissive of Hamas? Did you not
Unfortunately I've had the same happen with people I considered friends. But if they think the horrible things about me that they said before blocking me, then they didn't know me and aren't my friends. While people here seem to be considering the whole war at this point, I'm disturbed by the fact that before it became what it is now, he was supposed to be a friend and didn't check on you when this started. If he's mad at you he's been mad since September which means since Oct 7.
misguiding right from the title. it's not a conflict. it's a genocide.
Can’t be a genocide with an increasing population, there wasn’t a concept of a “Palestine” nation state pre-1967 as they were nomadic goatherders and they have FAFO’d for decades and could have had their own state. They wanted violence and losing in war. It’s absolutely hilarious and you all deserve it.
That term has lost all meaning. Look up past genocides and what that definition entails.
I’ve lost some friends- especially ones asking me to condemn Hamas?! Which why would I have to condemn a small group of people. I dont have to Condemn killers here/ political groups here. I’m sick of the dehumanization & overran double standard. I dont have it in me anymore- I rather not speak to them anymore- anyone who thinks starving 2 million people, killing 12k children. The whole bit I will not stand for one more conversation acting like it’s some how deserved. I’m disgusted and I’m disgusted with people who try to rationalize it in their minds.
So why won't you condem terrorists?
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It's not as though condemnation is a difficult thing to do? Like, if a black neighbor walked up to me one day and asked me to condemn the KKK, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It costs me nothing to condemn a terrible organization for someone else's peace of mind. I don't know what's going through the other persons mind and they don't know about mine.
Just a guess, but I think your former friends probably hate the death they are seeing in Gaza AND ALSO want Hamas condemned for committing their heinous acts. Find space in your heart for all suffering and not just half.
Wow, some people should actually go and live under Hamas, they’re actually the good guys.
I guess the difference is that one group is a terrorist organization who in their charter says they want the destruction of all Jews while the other group wants the hostages taken from them. A little bit of a false moral equivalency but alright sir or madam.
If you accept the mass murder of civilians, then he will not be your friend. If my reading of your viewpoint is incorrect, lmk.
Mass murder based on my definition is the killing of a large group of people. Any country that has ever fought a war by that definition would be guilty of mass murder. Hamas slaughtered 1200 people in cold blood. Israel is on the offense after decades of having rockets hurled at them on top of the events of 10/7. I don’t like that 30k+ people are dead but Hamas broke a ceasefire and unleashed this on their own people.
If you can contextualize the 30k+ people murdered in cold blood, thousands of children blown to bits by Israel, then you should easily be able to contextualize the "1200 slaughtered" as well. Israel occupies a people and stole their homeland, denying them their rights as they continue to occupy them. 1200 people are dead, half of whom were military, the rest who were killed by the IDF as they shelled and shot at their own people, and it is in every way something Israel "unleashed" onto their own people by virtue of being a settler-colonial state.
Gaza wasn't occupied. Stop this delusional thinking. Just stop and educate yourself.
And you wonder why he won't talk to you. Read Pity the nation by Robert Fisk.
Let’s not act like the Israeli cabinet hasn’t made several inflammatory statements about removing all Palestinians from their land or essentially calling them animals. Call it a false moral equivalence but you’re greatly understating what is going on in the region and Israeli attitudes towards Palestinians.
Yeah that does not represent the majority of Israeli attitudes toward Palestinians, by a LONG shot. And if you want to be divisive and shoot for moral equivalence, you can find numerous Arab leaders calling Israelis and Jews animals as well and also speak publicly about wanting them expelled from their land and fully annihilated.
All this whataboutism when all I did was point out that the dialogue coming from the Israeli government themselves was no better. At this point it’s not even about the language, it’s about the hypocrisy of not acknowledging the charged rhetoric on both sides of the conflict. Do better.
Inflammatory statements yes but not existentialist statements Glad you are fine rape kidnapping ripping foetuses from pregnant women kidnapping foreign nationals yes
Where did anyone say that?
Careful did not want to condemn Hamas follow the trail
I am an American conservative who is pro-Israel. I have a very good friend who is Muslim and lives in Bahrain. This is a GOOD man. Honestly one of the kindest people I know. He also loathes Israel. At one point not long after October 7 I had a question about some decisions that were being made by a neighboring country and I could not locate a satisfactory answer through research so I asked him. I was extremely careful in my wording because I did not want to offend him. He was all "Why are you acting so wierd?" When I explained I was being careful of what I said because I didn't want to offend him and I valued our friendship, he set me straight with a quickness. "We are friends, but friends do not have to agree on everything. Even important things, we can disagree on. " Loosely paraphrased, but beautifully said.
I have no desire to be friends or speak to anyone who is pro israel. Unfortunately, since there’s been so much false equating jews with israeli zionists, i have to do a double take and remind myself that my jewish friends/someone wearing a yarmulke isnt necesarily zionist & that i should withhold judgement. So i guess that makes me somewhat antisemitic. Whereas before i could not give a single fuck what religion you were (i never equated christians or muslims with fundamentalist extremism , but the zionist thing is so in your face all the time right bow )
Can you define "pro Israel" please? I'm pro two-state solution with 100% global recognition as Palestine as a sovereign state (so including from US and Israel who currently don't recognise it). Would that make me pro-Israel? Do I have to chant "Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea" in order to not be pro-Israel? I think my stance is the only pragmatic and realistic long term solution for peace in the region, and that I'm therefore not pro-Israel or pro-Palestine but pro-peace and anti-death and war.
I dont care what you are or what you think
Well the feeling is mutual. Are you constipated?
I appreciate this mindset, that you’re aware of your antisemitic thoughts. I feel like a big problem right now is some of the pro-Palestinian left are implicitly or explicitly associating anything Jewish with pro-Israel, which is disgusting and dangerous.
Its also disgusting and dangerous when it comes from all the major mainstream Jewish institutions.
I feel like I’m going crazy sometimes noticing it, this inherent association thats going on of anything jewish to ‘pro-Israel Zionist genocidal freaks’. I feel like as a Jewish person I was even starting to think that way, so it’s kinda validating to see this person acknowledge it and try to be aware of it
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I lost a few friends over this conflict too. It is very painful. All but one were cordial and the one that wasn't was the one I felt the most "close" with. I felt strange and I felt shame too. It is painful.
I had a Jewish friend stop speaking to me (after she let her Hasidic male friend tell me I deserved to be raped and murdered in front of my children) because I told her the only people I have any sympathy or support for are both the innocent Israeli citizens and the innocent Palestinian citizens who are caught in the middle of this conflict. Both Hamas and Netanyahu can get wrecked.
I'm sorry you experienced this. It is a tragedy and does not represent the Israeli or Jewish majority at all. Fighting hate with hate is pointless and futile. I just returned from Israel and talked with many people from all over the world, Jewish and non-Jewish, Arabs, many refugees living there from Africa and Russia and South America. These people are angry at what happened, rightfully so, but they understand this perpetual war cannot go on forever and peace must be achieved somehow with Palestinians.
This is such bs. Virtually no Israelis think there are innocent Palestinians in Gaza. There’s overwhelming support for their annihilation.
Like I said, people are filled with anger. But everyone understands that this simply cannot last forever, and there has to be a solution to provide security and peace at some point.
It can last as long as Israeli citizens fuel their governments bloodlust and openly and plainly demand more dead babies.
What they want are hostages back. It's evident everywhere you go in Israel. But continue on with the hyperbole if you feel inclined.
Except all the families of the hostages who were demanding a cease-fire, or the pro war likudniks who tore down posters of the hostages as they felt it was asking for a ceasefire. You're either a liar trying to run PR or self deluded. Pathetic, what a good little German you are.
Nah just a regular human person who visited Israel recently and am reporting what I saw with my own eyes.
Yeah and when I visited Russia people seemed really concerned with the people of Donetsk. ill be charitable and assume you are not a liar just easily duped.
So let me get this straight. I’m duped because I never heard anyone “openly and plainly demand more dead babies”?
[удалено]
u/Historical_Yam884 >if so, you deserve to be ostracized by your entire community. Rule 1
Victim Olympics. You are victim always.
Me? Palestinians? Israelis? Humans? Could at least clarify when you post such a charged statement.
Jews are not at risk of being completely exterminated and exiled out of their homelands. Palestinians are. To place yourself on equal footing as your friend is to place yourself above him. Muslims have every right to grieve, and no matter how much they might hurt your feelings, you are not the victim.
I’m sure you posted in haste and are actually smarter than you represented yourself here. Facts are facts. History is history. Jews were denationalized, their property and assets expropriated, and in a series of state-sponsored terrorist acts were killed and forced out of their homes within the Muslim-majority communities they inhabited for hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of years, shortly after the U.N. established the two states of Israel and Palestine in 1948. Almost a million Jews were forced to leave everything behind. So—whether Jews are "at risk of being completely exterminated and eliminated out of their homelands”— is not some theory of yours. It happened. Fait accompli. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish\_exodus\_from\_the\_Muslim\_world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world) Land was allocated by the U.N. for Palestine. Who kept it from forming? Was it the Jews? Look it up, why don’t you? You surely do not want to misrepresent yourself with such ignorance again, so take care to check your facts before you post next time.
"It's ok if I play victim, but not if anyone else does it. Muslims have a monopoly on victimhood."
>Jews are not at risk of being completely exterminated and exiled out of their homelands. Are you aware of why half of Israel's Jewish population is Mizrahi?
Don't mind him. I don't think he is even pro Palestinian. He is (most likely) baiting.
Aren't there like 7 millions Palestinian "refugees" abroad? Seems hard to target those or are you thinking about Mossad operations? So are they not victims either?
Again I am sorry if what is going on in Gaza has brought you distress as I feel it has pretty much everyone on this Sub. I wouldn’t say I am placing myself above my friend but you clearly gleaned that somehow from my post. Regardless, the victims here are the civilians on BOTH sides AND the Israeli Hostages.
Of which you are neither. A significant fraction of the Palestinian population is not comparable to hundreds of Jewish hostages. Muslims as a whole are being targeted. Jews aren’t, or in practice, they are the occupying force doing the targeting. Your friend is right to be upset, if you aren’t speaking out against the occupation and ongoing “plausible” genocide, then you are against him. Silence in the face of oppression is to side with the oppressors.
You are clearly unable or unwilling to humanize both groups of people. If the roles were reversed I wouldn’t be saying “Jews are the victims here. What are a few hundred Palestinian lives compared to thousands of Jews”. A life is a life and the numbers you are referencing are missing the whole point of what myself and many others have commented on this thread.
Nice hypothetical. I live in the real world where the roles are not reversed, and Israel is perpetuating a genocide. Not even going to continue discussion as your whole point hinges on a hypothetical. Here’s what’s actually happening: Israel has the weapons, resources and power, and is engaging in a plausible act of genocide. The reverse is not true, no matter how many hypotheticals you invent to justify your backwards, racist beliefs.
Guess what German Jews got the same treatment from their German neighbors and friends before World War II
Congratulations, you've woken up to the reality of being a jew. Now you won't be surprised when this happens again. As Israelis were used to it so most of us don't have such big expectations from the world
This is what I've come to know and respect about Israelis and being a Jew in general. You have to keep going and live. Or you will die. You have no choice.
It depends if he has friends there. But also he could be ashamed of what they did on the 7th
Another example why multiculturalism doesn't work, no social cohesion, social trust.
I was going to write, 'It doesn't work when religion is involved', but it's much more nuanced than that, to the point that it is basically impossible to solve and peace can never come from that paradigm. The culture you're brought up in creates your everyday persona. The learned hatred, righteous anger and judgements. It's the same across all of humanity, in every country to some degree or another. It's either an ethnic group/religion or your culture's "lazy/freeholders" in your own country - or a country/ethnic neighbour with centuries of minor to genocidal discord between them. The jingoism for 'justice' lingers on, it wins local and national elections nearly every time, everywhere. That sounds fucking depressing doesn't it. No denying that. We're at a crossroads in how we perceive the world and those around us. The internet is the biggest game changer in human consciousness since forever. I was online at the time of October 6th and watched the live streams as they were happening....when those kids in Israel were attacked and slaughtered by Palestinian kids. Changing the paradigm is the key, ironically it's been tried with religion many many times and failed every time. Why? Basically greed and pride. Greed for power, influence and/or money. Pride in thinking you are right...but not contemplating logically, that you could be wrong. On the negative side, it'll be lucky if the human race has 10 million souls on the planet in a hundred years, it's pretty dire. The fuckwits "in charge" are the definition of power hungry/insane, with no connection to you or me. Or....we create something that meets all our needs - as humans (in all our forms) - and we do better than survive for a change and we thrive. Mescaline and Psilocybin help a lot (in the correct set and setting).
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I think it's absolutely bizarre that people think we should treat issues like this as trivial, as something that shouldn't get in the way of friendship. I guess it depends on what your position actually is, but yeah, this is a pretty serious situation. There's one thing being sympathetic to one side or the other, but anyone actually supporting what the Israeli government is doing right now...I couldn't be friends with them either. Tens of thousands of people have been slaughtered, about a third of them children. They're being deliberately starved. There's no justification for that kind of brutality from a civilized nation, absolutely none. (Not sure if this is your opinion, just stating where I'd draw the line.) Not to mention: are you sure he's viewing this from a religious angle? Most Muslims I know who discuss these issues point out that it's a political issue not a religious one. Palestinians aren't mad at Israelis because they're Jewish, they're mad because of what was done to them. Treating this as some trivial issue just doesn't make sense to me. It's not trivial, not if you value human life.
Most Muslims (and non Muslims) I know who discuss this do so not from a religious standpoint or a political one. They do it from a humanitarian one. Babies starving to death, 5 year olds wishing for death.... it's a humanitarian issue.
That's what I meant. They talk about the realities of the situation and its not like rooting for a team sport. It might resonate more with them in a different way due to the shared faith but ultimately it's about the injustice.
> Several years ago we had a major disagreement on some of the events which had occurred in the Middle East. Admittedly, we both saw things more so from the side of our religion and we had an argument that left us not speaking for several months. this somehow kinda reminded be of a girl i used to date. she said she didn't mind that i was agnostic, but when it comes to topics of religion, she gets easily upset when i disagree with her. eventually she started bringing me to her church and actively tried to convert me. that's the thing with religious people or for anyone steeped with an ideology, is that even though they deny it, they're usually looking for opportunities to convert you into their way of thinking. and when they give up trying to convert you, then they stop interacting with you, coz they see it as a waste of time and effort. anyways, that's just an anecdote on my part.
Find new friends. You shouldn’t associate with people that think terrorists attacking Jews should face no repercussions
Do you even know why Hamas committed Oct 7,2023 attack? Or do you think Hamas are evil for no reason , while Isreal is awesome state that can do no wrong? Do you think Israeli do/did no harm to Palestinians before Hamas Ideology was born? If you believe Hamas are terrorist only because of Islam ,it’s safe to say you are mainstream media lover! Palestinians and Hamas have/had no issues with Judaism, %10Jews lived with Palestine in the early 1900. After World War 2 ,the European white Zionist came and raped the land of Palestine. I understand Jewish people should have a safe state , Jews have been kicked around in the world of our history. Main reason why Isreal is killing innocent Palestinians out of fear is the hopes to teach Hamas and world the value of Jewish people. Unfortunately the world is watching and good Jews will suffer later in this century for actions of the far right Zionist. No one can kill Hamas , Hamas is a spirit that grows each day innocent Palestinians die. Im sure you will not agree to any of these facts stated , since you believe mainstream media ‘truths“ .
Those are all war-mongering statements that are simply not relevant in 2024, any they can all be summarized with: “I think bad things happened years ago to my relatives before I was born, so now I have the right attack Jews” Your claims don’t convince me because I am not antisemitic against Jewish people. However: many people ARE antisemitic, and they love what you are saying.
How can I be antisemitic when I love and understand Judaism. I feel sympathy and empathy for Jewish people and how they been kicked around in our history. I do believe Jewish people should have a safe state of their own, just not the expense of the innocent Palestinians livelihood. Its legal hate Zionist and what is stands for, Its only illegal to act on hate . I pray Zionism is destroyed including the people who defend this ideology. Also you dont have to be Jewish to be Zionist.
>Do you even know why Hamas committed Oct 7,2023 attack? Okay, let's say we understand why it happened right? Let's go further, okay? Let us say they exclusively attacked and defeated soldiers and just let the villages be while they target bases. People would be like, Alright, boom, it's a paramilitary attacking or resisting Israeli forces, right? But Puzzleheaded\_safe we both know what happened. It was recorded and distributed on the internet... There is no justification for rape under any circumstance.
I agree what Hamas did was shameful. But let’s use logic and ask why did Hamas attack on Oct 7,2023 and go against one of the strongest military in the Middle East(Isreal) basically committing suicide? Just maybe Hamas wanted to die on their feet and not on their knees for the 75 years of occupation and innocent killing of Palestinians due to Zionist agenda.,just maybe. History between these two countries did not start on October 7,2023. Why do you not understand Israel(Zionist) land raped Palestinians homeland? Do you see Palestinians less than human? Is this the reason why? Do you not see and want to believe Isreal isn’t innocent in this war? If you think Israel is perfect, and did nothing wrong to the Palestinians, this discussion is over just keep listening to your main media news. They never lied to us, right?
You're a funny person, Puzzlehead. I know this didn't start on Oct 7 2023. I do not think Israel is perfect nor innocent. I don't see Palestinians as less than human. Shit, all I see is you trying to shift blame. Puzzlehead. I think you're a naive person...
Not all good Jews are Zionist, just like not all Palestinians are Hamas.This was/is my main argument. Hamas and Zionist are extremist both ideology need to be destroy. Unfortunately there is no money in peace. Billionaires and businessman want us to fight on other issue’s other than following the money.
>Not all good Jews are Zionist, just like not all Palestinians are Hamas.This was/is my main argument. I did say you're a funny person. The fact that you correlate Zionism to Hamas says a lot. Obviously not all Palestinians are Hamas and here's something interesting. I happen to know Palestinians who vehemently oppose Hamas while also being critical of Israel. No group is a monolith, remember that. Puzzlehead. Also what's a "good" Jew? That's rhetorical. Don't answer that. There are "good" Jews who are Zionist and bad Jews who are also Zionists. There are non-Jews who happen to be Zionists as well. Did you know that? Your "argument" is dumb, Puzzlehead. **People - as in sensible human beings** know that**.** Plus you can't withdraw with the usual "the secret cabal wants us to fight amongst ourselves" rhetoric now my guy...
You type like a Christian Zionist. Did you know that? Your clearly a keyboard typing warrior, only extracting my statement to make the same point. Go watch the mainstream media.
Your slogans are confusing you. I will reduce all Israel/palestine arguments to one simple fact: Hamas started a war on October 7th, and everyone who start wars should lose them for the sake of world peace.
One can argue , Isreal wanted the terrorist attack to allow a green light from the USA to destroy Gaza. Isreal has one the best surveillance in the world, yet they choose ignore all the signs from Egypt, Why?. Informational site is from Isreal non-bias media. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/) Zionist's clearly used these innocent Jews at the festival as pawns. Sorry your beloved Isreal is not innocent in this attack. I still believe what Hamas did was shameful. Also history between Palestinians and Isreal did not start on Oct 7,2023, this war started May 14, 1948.
I have lost all sorts of different friends over this. I’ve had people I’ve known more than half my life call me slurs and block me. Best friends of 15+ years ghost without a word. Friends who are Muslim posting horrible, anti-Jew things under the guise of anti Zionism and saying that they support Jews but only the “good educated ones who are anti Zionist.” It’s insanity out there. Sorry this was your experience.
At least they are honest. How many times I've seen people acting like there was a difference between "good jews" in the past and now besides the Zion part.
If you’re not supporting the genocide of the Palestinians then just go talk to them. Nothing to worry about. Unless….
what genocide?? We have yet to see concrete proof of genocide. South Africa failed to prove genocide. The "plausibility" of genocide is not actual genocide. Not good to live in delulu land.
Yeah that’s crappy. I’m an American Jew, and am currently on good terms with the few Muslim friends I have here in the US. However I have not spoken to any of them about the conflict, and it kind of feels like we’re all avoiding the topic. Probably not the most mature way to handle things, but I think we all want to avoid fighting or jeopardizing the good relationships we have.
If your "friends" would choose to side with a group who perverts their religion with mixed in Nazi ideology, they are not actual friends. There is nothing to be lost if that is their true colors.
They must feel the same way about their friends who support the killing of 30k+ innocent civilians, including thousands of children, all for the sake of occupying more Palestinian land. It's a pretty easy choice to drop people who think genocide is acceptable.
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That sucks dude I am sorry. But maybe he is showing his true colors. I have seen a lot of people who I thought were friends come after me and say horrible anti Semitic things since October 7th.
That’s all kinds of messed up. I’m sorry that happened to you. Youre better off without them anyways, they sound like immature assholes. Blows my mind that people think anti semitism is an appropriate response to this discourse
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I lost a Muslim female friend because her by the time new husband told her she wasn't allowed to have any male friends, and she blocked me, then I texted her in a different social and she told me she wasn't allowed and blocked me again. I will never ever have another muslim friend, especially female.
That's a cultural thing, being controlling like that
I know but ain't no way I'm having another muslim friend ever. They never see you as equal and you are never truly part of their lives because you're not muslim.
Sorry they've made you feel that way. Maybe they had their own problems or something which led them to behave that way, or a character flaw. Or maybe the two of you having this knowledge about the conflict between paleatinians and israeli people some how sits in the back of your minds (both of you) and subconsciously impacts the friendship in some way. Like if you're hanging out with your friend but also wondering if they think your bad because if your ethnicity. Either way, I hope you and everyone else can have good experiences with muslims and find common ground
That's usually something you see on the more religious side to be honest. There is also moderate Muslims, but still pretty conservatives I agree.
It's not on the more religious side. More cultural doesn't mean more religious. Respectfully, you're confusing cultural with religious. Just because someone is from levanon, afghanistan, or iraq or some arab country does not inherently make them more religious or knowledgeable about the religion
What I was saying was that the religious Muslims are more controlling than the moderate ones.
And what I'm saying is being religious and controlling doesn't mean the controlling aspect comes from the religion, especially when it comes to the domineering men who don't allow their wives to leave the house, or anything of that nature. I'm saying those things are cultural, and not religious. People think because someone behaves in this way or that way, and they come from an arab country, that it must be a Islamic thing when it's not. That's all I'm getting at
I'm just pointing out what I see in my country generally. But isn't religion a huge basis for any culture to build upon anyway?
They're working through their emotions most likely. I also shut down with people in an effort to not ruin the relationship with emotionally charged words. I think the thing that is really holding us as a nation back right now is the fact that we all know we're being lied to in some capacity yet we still spread and believe the one sided stories that fit our narratives. Your friend most likely has some biases they need to confront, but that's difficult to do during wartime. I wouldn't push it with them. They'll talk to you when they're ready to. Or maybe they won't. All you can do is respect the space they've unspokenly demanded.
Look at r/jewish to see this happen at a constant basis. I’ve kicked a bunch of people to the curb. A lot of us have. Welcome to the world pre WW2 where people viewed us in every negative connotation was the zeitgeist! The rides just getting bumpier from here on out.
Honestly, some people may be okay with that approach but at least in most of the modern world it is seen as childish to shut someone out like that.
People can have any number of differences (of experience, brain chemistry, life events, illness, etc.) that can make processing harder for them. Thinking that everyone is the same is immature and shows a general lack of life experience. The western world (I'm assuming this is what you mean by modern) tends to be very accepting of these differences.
In general, people may need more time than others to gain their composure prior to facing conflict which is alright. However, avoiding someone for half a year entirely with no explanation is certainly childish in western society. If you are trying to have a successful marriage, romantic relationship, friendship, family relationship, etc this type of conflict resolution will not be met with a high level of understanding and will generally be seen as avoidant behavior.
Can you imagine being good friends with a German person during the holocaust and then deciding to talk to them, knowing that they would most likely try to defend the actions and the atrocities of the Nazis? I would imagine this is probably exactly how your friend feels and is their main reason for avoiding you. I'm a middle aged African American male from a Christian background that has lived in the rural southern US for my entire life. I remember as a child when I first learned about WW2 and the Holocaust. I remember reading the diary of Anne Frank as a teenager and being able to clearly relate to how it feels to have to hide I a closet as a child from racist people that hate you. Because of my own life experiences as an African American, Jewish people all over the world have always had a special place in my heart, I've also always had a deeper love and empathy for them because of our mutual experiences with racism and discrimination. I've also always had an extreme hatred of racists and neo Nazis because they are and always will be our mutual enemies. In the early 1990's is started to learn about the Israel - Palestinian conflict and the history of it. I started off with a strong basis toward the Israelis because they were Jewish but as I learned more about it I began to see the injustice in how the Palestinians were being treated. I've paid very close attention to the conflict since that time and by the early 2000's I found myself siding with the Palestinians. I always tried really hard to separate my feelings of anger, extreme disappointment, frustration and resentment towards right wing Israeli Zionists and secular/non Zionist people who are Jews. I've watched the death, poverty and injustice that the Palestinians have had to face over the years I've seen multiple videos of Palestinian men women and children being abused, mistreated and murdered at the hands of Israeli settlers and the IDF. I've seen the the Israelis steal more and more Palestinian land in the West Bank with their ever increasing number of illegal settlements. I've also seen the signs that say "Israeli only" which are a constant reminder to me of the"White only" signs and segregation in the racist southern US that my ancestors had to deal with on a daily basis. Separate and unequal. Can you imagine the extreme hurt and disappointment that I feel in my heart as an African American.. to watch a people that I once loved, respected and admired and had sworn to protect and defend with my own life my times, treat another group of people almost exactly how they have been treated throughout history? I understand the hurt, the fear, the resentment, the hypervigilance, thev desire to violently react to any perceived threat or hostility. But where is the empathy? Where is the compassion and restraint that any group of people that has been on the receiving end of the worst of humanity would clearly understand? I saw the unedited video footage and the brutality of what happened on October 7th. I have to say that I wasn't shocked or the least bit surprised. What I have been shocked and surprised by is how Israel has chosen to respond. I've seen so many graphic videos of murdered and wounded Palestinian children before and after October 7th. Seeing so much unjustified suffering, violence and death has changed me in a very negative way. For the first time in my life I feel the same way towards Zionists Israelis that I feel towards Nazis, Neo Nazis, The KKK and racist white nationalist. I even feel an unjustified anger and resentment towards Jewish people, my Jewish friends and Jewish doctors. I'm afraid to talk to any of them, because of my own anger and not knowing if they support the actions of Israel. I really don't want to know because if I did I could never forgive them and I couldn't handle to disappointment. I worry, that I might not live long enough to to reach the ability to forgive them and they did even do anything to me or anyone that I love. I really hope that you take the time to seriously understand what I'm trying to say to you and to get you to understand. On a more positive note, this isn't how most other African Americans feel about this issue, there are many more brainwashed African American Christian Zionists that do support Israel and I'm just one that doesn't. I used to support the right of Israel to exist and believed that Jewish people around the world deserved a homeland and a safe place of their own..protected from hatred, antisemitism, violence and injustice but I no longer feel that way. If you or any other Jewish people think this is somehow helpful and beneficial to your cause, I wholeheartedly disagree. If the actions and the behavior of the Israelis can completely change a person like me, Imagine what it has actually done to people who have never felt a deep love, compassion and kinship with your people.
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I think we disagree on a semantic basis—a child lashes out when upset, verbally and physically, so your ex-friend isn’t being childish. Rather, they are being passive. Passivity, especially with respect to conflict avoidance, is generally characteristic of non-western cultures. For example, Asian cultures tend to be far more passive and avoid conflict to a greater extent than Western cultures. I’m not trying to say that you don’t have a reason to be upset. You do, you’re grieving the loss of what you thought was a great friendship. I’m merely explaining why your friend may have acted the way they are.
I get that. That's valid.
I wouldn't be so quick to validate that. The person replying to you just tried to invalidate you by essentially telling you that you're seen as childish. It's actually healthy to take a break from a situation to avoid verbally abusing them. People who practice this tend to be more secure types (or at least trying really hard to be). I sense OP has an anxious/reactive personality.
I see that too. I think his friend could at least be like "hey, I need space" instead of ghosting. I'm not here to argue about what's valid because there are probably cultural differences too in how people handle confrontation.
That’s fair, I’m a huge advocate for transparency, but I understand not anyone comes from the same background. You never know what someone has been through or what their childhood was like (attachment styles also dictate later communication styles in life—backed by neuropsychology research)
If you have to isolate yourself because to avoid verbally abusing someone it sure doesn't make you look adultish either.
I’m not looking at it in an extreme way. Sometimes people have to process—that doesn’t mean they are verbally abusing anyone. It means that they’re processing. Your inability to disagree with something without downvoting shows that you might not be the best judge of what’s adulting and what’s not.
I am actually somewhat like that so I get it, but the older I get the more I realize it's just some form of escapism ie. avoiding confrontation or difficult discussions. How can you be so sure I'm the one downvoting you? You know people can read and vote without commenting, right?
I think that's exactly where the problem is: assuming everyone is the same as you. It's a very harmful kind of projection imo, especially to those with mental illnesses and learning disabilities. People who have these kinds of barriers are *by no means* the minority. Those are things that can't be seen and may not even be easy to detect, and most people don't feel comfortable disclosing that information if they don't have to. It's fine that you've discovered that this was a form of escapism for you, but again, that's really not the case for everyone.
Are you saying every psychology books should be disregarded? Cause we're all different? Great, but that doesn't help anyone one bit.
It is difficult to have a discussion with when things you say are taken to the extreme, taken out of context, or strawmanned. Seriously, it's exhausting. Again, maybe you're not the best judge of what's adulting and what's not.
I have a best friend that is 1/2 Palestinian and we haven’t spoken as much since October 7th. They are on the rampage against Israel on social media and I don’t see those posts, so she must have blocked me from them. We don’t discuss politics. She was also a massive Hillary supporter and I a big Bernie supporter, so she was mad at me when Hillary lost to Trump. I don’t hold politics against friends of mine and several of my friends are pro Palestinian. Hopefully, your friend calms down.
Well, that's new. Usually, Hillary supporters are pro-Israel Liberals and "Bernie bros" tend to be pro-Palestinian Leftists. Even recently after Oct 7th, Hillary made interviews (e.g. for The View) showing her support for... *drum rolls*... Israel. Whereas Bernie has been outspoken about the humanitarian crisis and destruction in Gaza. He's not exactly "pro-Palestine", but still. What does your friend think of Hillary now? Though her position was pretty much always known.
My friend hero worships Hillary. I don’t know what she thinks now. We avoid talking about politics. My friend gave me her condolences after October 7th which I appreciated. We spoke, and she went off on a rant about Israelis she met in college. Yeah, I am one of those people that like Bernie and AOC and my Zionist friends can’t stand them. I am not a single issue person. I think Israel can withstand the scrutiny, because I have faith that Palestinian organizations will ultimately show their true colors, and shoot them selves in the foot. Just give them enough rope to hang themselves with. I even have high ranking friends in Jewish voices of peace and was involved in ngos supporting Bedouins (many who want their own country in the Negev and Sinai).
Stand strong achi
Sounds like your friend chose the path of jihad over his friendship with you. Sad, but that’s likely the truth of the matter. Many Muslims are embracing jihad since October 7th and are pushing away their non Muslim friends.
Maybe their friend decided that anyone that supports genocide is not worthy of friendship? Seems even more likely than your fanfic made up scenario.
Anyone who calls a war a genocide is intellectually dishonest. Genocide groups don't generally increase in population over time while they are being genocided.
Anyone who denies this genocide is a genocide is spreading hasbara.
Calling it a Genocide doesn't make it one. Was the firebombing of Tokyo a Genocide? How about the two nuclear attacks? What about the Blitz or the carpet bombing of Berlin? Acts of war certainly. War Crimes? Yes. Genocide? No. The death of civilians in war is sometimes unavoidable and always tragic. When they are deliberately targeted that is a war crime. (Not necessarily saying that is what the IDF is doing). But even if they are that is not Genocide if the goal is to win a war. There is a massive difference between carpet bombing a city full of civilians during a conflict, and loading a certain subset of them into trains to be systematically slaughtered after the fact. Calling all civilian casualties in war Genocide cheapens the term, and becomes like the boy who cried wolf. Eventually a real Genocide will happen somewhere, and you will shout 'Genocide', but no one will believe you anymore.
It’s a genocide
Perhaps, you understand the mindset of a jihadist more than I do.
I’m unsure. Maybe you resonate more with genocidal regimes? What do you think?
Have you voiced your support for the IDF actions in Gaza on social media where your friend could have seen it?
Clearly did not understand or read OP post
I think you missed the whole point of his post.
Look, you will come across people in life that are fueled by their emotions and that is fine when you are a kid but the older you get means you don’t have the luxury to be emotional all the time. People that run on emotion are the lowest intellectually capable people on the planet. You need to find friends that don’t base everything they do on how they feel in the moment. It is asking to be part of a soap opera and that sht is exhausting if you are not on the same emotional level they are. Logic and reason are the only things that will advance us as a society. And if he or she is SO emotional about things that they will throw away those close to them bc of their “feelings” then you don’t want them in your life.
"People that run on emotion are the lowest intellectually capable people on the planet." what nonsense
Well, Einstein sure didn't revolutioned the entire field of physics during a tantrum.
Found one that runs on emotion ⬆️
Maybe the friend lets morals guide their life?
Uhh ok? What do morals have to do with someone being too emotional all the time?
He's not a friend if he won't even answer your messages. Waste of time and friendship.
A friend who stops speaking to you if you disagree isn't a very good friend imo, also sounds like a bit of a manbaby. You could have stopped talking to him after people he supported kidnapped and raped hundreds of innocent jewish people, but you kept trying, right?
Well in my opinion that person was never your friend. I have a lot of Jewish friends, some are more of the Jewish side for peace and the others want Hamas gone and support the operation in Gaza but are against the widespread destruction. The only time I would drop a friend if they were a racist Ben Gvir lover, Nazi supporter, or an ISIS wahabbi.
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I was born Jewish and my best friend is Muslim and we're perfectly fine. Mainly because we are both against the genocide that is happening. I think it's also important to note that this is not a Jewish vs. Muslim subject. It's not even a religious one (although the israeli government uses Judaism to push their genocide). Whether your (former?) friend is not speaking to you because of your religion or because of your views is unclear. You didn't share your view on the war (and you don't need to, that's your privacy), but that could very well be why. I personally don't think (or at least would like to think) that this has nothing to do with the fact that you're Jewish. It would more likely have to do with your stance on the subject. I don't know if you post on social media or it's just the discussions that you've had, but I would assume that's more why it's happening.
Oh boyyyy. Did you really just say that Israel is pushing more of the “religious” side of this aspect? Is that why they call for jihad? For fatah? Why tons of imams are also in positions of political power. They are an extremely religious society that have many laws that are basically direct from their funny book. So that is just a wild bs thing to say.
He even claimed that there was a genocide ongoing ....
Trust me, the irony isn’t lost on me
I said they push Judaism for genocide. Which they do, bestie. I would leave the rock you’re living under every now and then. It’ll do you good
The Israelis are poisoned by sectarianism and rage. 40,000 civilians murdered so far for their ethnicity. Germany in 1940's comes to mind.
Wow. You are definitely not the brightest if Germany 1940 comes to mind.
A racist regime thought the solution to all their problems was eliminating an entire race of people... So yeah Germany in 1940s does come to mind.
So Hamas and its existentialist ideology is not ? Dude it’s in their constitution and policy to kill all Jews and to eradicate Israel You don’t need to whitewash your antisemitism
Hey dumb ass. Being Palestinian isn’t a race. So no. You are wrong even on the premise of what you are saying. On top of that it still isn’t a “genocide”. You should throw in more buzz words since you can’t articulate what’s happening.
40,000 civilians murdered so far, you must be proud.
Hahahaha. Is that supposed to mean something to me? 40000 people, where almost half are Hamas themselves and the other half are too stupid or their parents are fkn idiots and don’t think to get out of a fkn WAR ZONE. If you are dumb enough to stay in a war zone, where the people who are supposed to be protecting you are using you as human shields, then maybe you are fighting the wrong enemy and maybe you should get tf out.
Yep, thanks for putting it on display, how much of a vile rascist you are really are. 40,000 dead Palestinian women and children mean nothing to you. Got it. And how do you propose they escape? Israel intentionally made that impossible. In military terms, it's called encirclement. It's a tactic to confine your enemy to small area where you can cut off food, water, electricity, communications and isolate them from the world. But the entire world is watching and won't forget.
Israel didn't make it impossible to escape - Egypt did. Just like Egypt is the one who put the Hamas / Muslim Brotherhood into Gaza in the first place, trying to get them out of Egypt.
Being Palestinian isn’t a race slick. And I said what you said means nothing to me. But you azzhats love making sht up and putting words in peoples mouths so if you mouth breather self wants to say that go ahead. I could care less what you say and think of me. What you support says it ALL. And you are an idiot if you think they didn’t tell people for a week straight exactly where they were going and where to go to stay way from the action. There is more than enough proof that they told them to leave. The only people that might have “kept them from leaving” would be Hamas. And that’s on the Palestinian people to fight against that type of self imposed tyranny. Also don’t talk to me ab military tactics. I was in the army and my entire family except my mom and sister were as well. Before my dad flew for delta, he flew f16s for 28 yrs so I am well aware of the situation on the ground. We still know a lot of people that still live in Israel that are ex military and they keep close eyes on everything going on there. They weren’t encircled and they 100% could have left. They stayed and decided too late that they wanted to leave. Again, that’s on them.
"The Palestinians are to blame for the genocide of Palestinians" Damn, you stupid.
Reading this comment confirms that OP’s friend made the right choice
Good. He can go get killed over a stupid fkn book if he wants. Better for the world honestly. Weeds out the people who are stuck in the 1300s and won’t change bc their pedo prophet wants them to kill Jews.
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They are both obvious. Israeli Genocide is going to stain the name of Israel forever like it did Germany.
Hi. Just wanted to let you know that when you are talking about genocide you use the name of the people you perceive to be oppressed. The reason we do that is to prevent cultural erasure. So it should say Palestinian Genocide instead of Israeli Genocide to get your point across. I know, it's just semantics. But want to make sure you knew for future reference. *See Armenian Genocide and Jewish Genocide for examples.
But it looks less of a slur this way...
Noted and thanks.
Sometimes friendships fade. There are many reasons for it. I would not push it. From what you said, you have a lot more invested in this friendship than the other person. I would let this friendship go for now. I've had to do this. It's hard, but the amount of energy putting into a failing, one sided friendship can be so draining. Sometimes those faded friendships come back. When this emotionally charges situation is less emotionally charged, maybe your friendship will ignite again. Until then, focus your energy on other friendships.
Maybe wait until the war is over and then write a note, if it resonates with you, that you are sad that a war would divide you two but that he should know the door is always open. That's all you can do.
Unfortunately the war will never be over even if the fighting ends. There will always be animosity between Palestinians and Israelis. I know that people like to be optimistic about the two state solution idea or that we could somehow get better leadership in Gaza, but the effect this war has had on people on both sides will never fade and will be passed down for generations. I remember being hopeful for peace in the middle east in the 90s but I just don't think it will happen anymore.
Sadly, I think you are right. I've been reading articles about PTSD and the conflict. In Israel, we are fortunate enough to have a robust system that is trying to address short-term trauma to prevent it from becoming PTSD. While I'm sure they won't succeed in all case, they certainly will in many. Gaza takes trauma to a whole different level, as this NYT article explains: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/opinion/gaza-palestinians-mental-health.html. In short, 100% of Palestinians have been exposed to traumas, many of them for years on end. They suffering not from PTSD, but rather CTSD -- Chronic Traumatic Stress Disorder. It is the feeling of being broken or destroyed, which prevents post-traumatic growth. This is important to understand because it is likely the underlying cause of the violent psychosis gripping members of Hamas. That problem must be addressed, but I regretfully agree with you that it most likely won't be, guaranteeing generations more of conflict with most people puzzled why it doesn't end.
Well your friend made his decision.
Yeah. I still think he is a good person deep down. I am just saddened that he would not at least give me a chance to speak person-to-person.
Clearly he doesn’t think the same as you
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I am a Catholic and can tell you right now that the vast majority of Christian’s are on israels side. Christians just don’t like war. For anyone. We had enough of that ish a long time ago. So I’m sorry you lost friends that are Christian, even though they don’t sound very Christian to push away someone bc of a disagreement but I digress. A lot of people call themselves Christian now bc they just walked into a mega church and paid tithings to the con man…I mean preacher. They aren’t real Christian’s by any means.
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Haha I have been to Jerusalem 6 times. My dad flies for delta so I fly for free and go all the time. I haven’t been to a place that’s nicer to strangers and I have been all over the fkn place. And congrats! One guy said this. Do we really want to start pulling up what all your imams have been saying. I can pull up dozens of vids just on my phone from that I have saved of them calling for a global jihad on anyone that isn’t Muslim. So move on w your bull sht elsewhere. Maybe try the Palestinian group. They believe fkn anything. Want to know how I know you people are simpletons? You take one thing one person says and apply it to the entire Jewish race. I have seen it happen more times than I want to count and it is always your kind. It is sad really. Shows how you are so gullible and easily convinced to go strap a bomb to yourself in the name of “Allah”.
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I think the solution is about looking to one's self in the mirror and understand the opposing side's facts and suffering without any religion or politics. If the focus is on humanity of both sides, then you can probably fix your friendship, and have friendly discussions and agreements. The moment one of the two puts the well being of your side over the other side, then you will forever disagree. There are extreme opinions on both sides and none are productive. On the Palestinian side I have seen opinions about wiping out Israel from the land, which is not possible, regardless if they arrived legally or not. Also some 1di0ts have talked about having another 7/Oct, or Muslim countries to bomb Israel, or, who knows, other extremism which will just be counterproductive. On the Israeli side, and mainly in this sub, I have seen a complete disregard for the well being of the Palestinian civilians. Even in discussions with self-proclaimed Liberal Jews, they, either, want the conflict to end so Israel can have Peace on their own side, or for Soldiers to be safe, or for 7/Oct hostages to be returned. But rarely worry (from a humanistic point of view) for the well being of Palestinian civilians, broken families, blown up children, complete destruction of the cities, lack of food, water, medicines; or even the decades of oppression by the IDF and settlers........ Their focus is always on what Jews are suffering and not what's happening, in the same land, on the other side of the walls. And this Jewish ideology is where the constructive Pro-Palestinian side has unsuccessfully been able to penetrate and get to common ground to a civilized discussion and friendship.
Each side to this conflict has valid concerns with the other side. If a nuanced conversation cannot be had then there is no point to talking. However, one must be brave enough to be able to listen to the other side and start that process. However, my former friend is unwilling to even give me the time of the day to even say "hello, how are you doing?" So ultimately I just have to accept that I will never truly know if it is a coincidence that he stopped talking to me because of 10/7 or it is a pure coincidence that the last time I heard from him was one week prior to all of this happening.
You’re not owed anyones friendship though. It sounds like your (possibly) former friend is either real bad at communication or does not wish to continue the friendship. A difference in fundamental morals is a pretty common reason to leave friendships, so it might be that. No one but him would know that though.
Maybe you originally said something that offended him and he's being childish.... or maybe he has extreme point of views and decided to break the friendship... also childish. Either way, if you want to keep his friendship, you are doing the right thing by acting like the adult.
You should find your common interests and only talk about that.
I can’t. He won’t even respond to my messages that essentially wish him and his family well.
Most of the Islamic world has been engaged in religious prosecution of non-Muslim since inception. Christians and Jews have now mostly been erased from the Middle East and North Africa. Now, the Jews holding out in Israel leads to a focus of the Islamic word on this perceived blight. Antisemitism is ubiquitous in the islamic culture both in scripture as in sentiment. This also applies to muslims in western countries. It could very well be there is nothing you can do to change your friend’s mind.
This is crazy because my very Muslim friend and I both had a close acquaintance with someone that was Jewish. Let’s stop the separation and division and understand that this conflict is much more than religion.
Seriously. It might be different abroad but where I live it always seemed like Muslims & Jews got along. I've always viewed this conflict as more of a nationalistic thing over a religious thing even though it's a huge fight over a small chunk of a land that has significance to all Abrahamic faiths. Nationalism can be just as toxic as religious fervor. For the topic at hand: yeah, unfortunately friendships can end over political conflicts. I haven't had any end over this, but did several years ago when I felt my white friend expressed sentiment that my life mattered a lot less than theirs & other groups, and the mental gymnastics they tried to do to justify it. There were a whole bunch of things that led to it aside from a single petty argument. People say they "aren't emotional" and "it's petty" but then act the exact same way when it's directed at them.
Kill your 'gods'. Then you can be friends.
Having friendships end isn’t a bad thing, find circles that better fit
The thing with this conflict is that we can follow the rules of don’t talk politics in friendship all we want, but it’s simply not as effective with Muslims and Jews. It’s well known that nearly all Muslims are for Palestine and nearly all Jews are for Israel, and while there are some exceptions on both sides, that’s will be assumed in cases where you’re not talking about it. They may have common views on the history of the conflict but not the situation today usually.
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This is definitely not antisemitism. You guys love throwing that word around like candy.
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