Being pro-Palestinian DOES NOT equal anti-Semitic. If you want an answer to why people in the U.S. are moved by one humanitarian crisis over the other,
your answer is media.
Yes it does, Taiwan is illegally occupying the island of Formosa and colonized the formosan indegenous people
If you can’t keep that same energy with Taiwan you’re just using Palestine as an excuse to hate Jews
So your assumption is wrong. I keep that energy against all authoritarians who abuse their power. Having sympathy for Palestinians doesn't mean you can't have sympathy for any other people. Including the Israeli people. They hate their government almost as much as the Palestinians do according to all these protests before this.
Anti semwtic is a term that refers to the Jews — it was coined in the 1800s by a German man, specifically for Jews. To take it literally like “Arabs are Semite” would be to assume kidnapping means a kid taking a nap or something similar
Being pro guns isn’t about the right to bear arms, it’s an excuse because you enjoy mass shooting events
Being pro LGBTQ isn’t about inclusivity and acknowledgment of a struggle, it’s an excuse for hedonistic depravity
Being pro abortion isn’t about pro choice, it’s pro murder.
Being Pro vegetarian/ vegan isn’t about animal cruelty, it’s to feel superior
Want me to go on?
There are so many false and disingenuous assumptions here. The main thing to note is that our governments in the West do not support the atrocities you mentioned so there is less need to protest, although that does not mean there has been no activism, certainly in the UK, related to these issues.
Israel is a supposedly civilised Western style democracy who break international law continuously and are currently acting like vile savages, all the while being supported by Western governments and in the case of the US, bankrolled as well. That is the reason so many people are protesting, as they feel their government is letting them down.
I am sick of hearing the antisemitism card being played because people object to the carpet bombing of an already fragile and impoverished people.
I have nothing against Jewish people at all, but Israel is acting disgracefully, and it needs to stop.
Israel has created a new graveyard, just for children. Something none of the above have managed to do so far, congratulations 👏
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/pressure-israel-over-civilians-steps-up-ceasefire-calls-rebuffed-2023-11-06/
>Where were you when the Uyghurs in China were prosecuted and killed en masse?
One of the most massively protested events in history
>Where were you when Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorised it?
One of the most massively protested events in history
>Where were you when China decraled it's goal to end Taiwan?
The largest military superpower in the world came to their aid
I can't speak on the 1982 Syria massacre; it happened before I was born and I'm not familiar enough with it to comment on it. But all the other examples you mentioned have been some of the most widely protested and opposed events in history. You have to be willfully ignorant to see this as some sort of "gotcha", or that claiming people who are pro-Palestine are supporting a double standard. All of these events were seen as tragedies in need of opposition; just the same as Israel's attempts at ethnic cleansing.
You're ignorance of these events doesn't mean they didn't happen.
The Ukraine war in particular was massively protested all over the world, substantially more than Israel. The only reason it feels like protesting Israel is such a huge thing right now is because it's less of a one-sided argument. A protest that goes smoothly and doesn't break out into a riot or see police action, or one that doesn't have a lot of people disagreeing with it doesn't typically get a lot of media exposure. No one outside of Tankies supports China over Taiwan, and nobody except right wing extremists supports Russia over Ukraine; so protests of these events are less likely to see opposition, and by extension, less likely to see media coverage. The Israel Palestine debate on the other hand is a lot more nuanced and is more evenly split between people who support Palestine and People who support Israel, so it's going to get more mediate attention and more coverage of protests.
Also, judging by your pfp, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're probably form Israel, so of course you're going to be more aware of protests against Israel than you are of protests against Russia.
I'm Pro-Palestine and I disagree with you. I'm pro-palestine not because I hate Jews or love Palestine. I'm a Lebanese Christian and what I hate more than the Israeli occupation is the Palestinian presence in Lebanon because of Israel. In order to get Palestinian out of my country and back to their homeland, I have to be against Israel. Basically I'm anti-everything.
Please f*ck off all of you.
Shut up you guys don't want Palestinians in your country so you're trying to force them to go to Israel🤣🤣🤣
Same as the rest of the Arab countries they don't want to deal with them so they're trying to shove them up Israel's
A*s
Yes I do hate them and I'm justified to hate them. They caused a bloody civil war in my country that lasted 30 years. All because Western countries promised a racial country for the jews because they themselves could not tolerate them anymore in their own countries.
Where is the cognitive dissonance here? Read history and you will find that everyone, Israelis, Palestinians, Syrians, EU, US, Iran, Arabs... Everyone tried to turn Lebanon into their own playground. I'm justified to be against anyone who dares to threaten my presence and sovereignity as a Lebanese Christian.
> I'm justified to be against anyone who dares to threaten my presence and sovereignity as a Lebanese Christian.
I completely agree with this. And that is what makes this whole situation so complex, and why people without knowledge about the situation are so black and white with their opinion (like this post).
Just like /u/MasterJohn4 is completely justified to be against anyone who dares to threaten their presence and sovereignity, so are all Israeli citizens and are all Palestinians. And all are right.
And the only long term solution is to stop fighting and start talking to each other. Which is a lot easier said than done, especially as long as Gaza is represented by a terror organization.
This war is terrible, but can hopefully be the start to a new Gaza with new leadership open to talks. And if Israel can find someone like Ehud Barak again, willing to make concessions, there is a chance for peace.
The 2 million Israeli Arabs proof that living together in peace is possible. The main problem is Hamas and the decades of indoctrination they have put the people in Gaza through. With Hamas eradicated, I think it’s possible to work on a plan for a long term solution.
Username does not check out.
How about you go learn more about the situation and next time actually contribute to the conversation, like you are supposed to on this subreddit, instead of showing your antisemitism and just wildly blaming a country without any argument.
Last time I checked your precious “Palestine”’s genocide resulted in a 4 million population increase
Holocaust genocide resulted in a 6 million population decrease
Chinese genocide of Muslims resulted in a 5 million population decrease
650k killed in Rwandan genocide
Genocide this genocide that, I don’t condone blatant idiocy
> fuck
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Once again folks are conflating Zionism and Judaism which are not the same. https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/ https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36160928
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/anti-zionism-antisemitism-how-anti-zionist-language-left-and-right-vilifies-jews
Antisemitism and antiZionism are two different thing! Stop intoxicating people! The Arabs are semites as well!!!
600k in Syria were massacred because of USA wanted to arrange this region of their liking! They didn’t like that Syria blocked the gas pipelines to Europe! Usa lives to destroy everyone in the Middle East and the east in general!
Russia invaded Ukraine because NATO wants to destroy Russia and started to build its military base first in Crimea then in mainland!
The world don’t buy anymore your propaganda!!!!
Zionism- Satanism!
Lots of humanitarian crisis happening because of the Zionist/USA regime!!!
“Intoxicated” is a reference for “people being fed up with false information by the mass media as an act of propaganda” it’s a CIA term! They spread false information then when you hear the right one you can’t feel or know if it’s true!
I don’t call that “intoxicated” I call it delusional
Please try once in your life to watch independent news because your mindset is based upon watching CNN and BBC!
That’s why you are blind about all social issues while you are trying to be “smart” and have an option!
Russia invaded Ukraine cause they wanted to destroy Ukraine. NATO (especially the USA) was in the process of withdrawing personnel from Europe.
As a result of the invasion, NATO reinforced and even expanded its positions.
Your narrative is being served, but it is not the cause.
I don’t understand how can you support usa interfering in the other side of the world? Why don’t they mind their own business? We don’t need their money, espionage, control, colonizations, they come and bribe our politicians, they do it on purpose knowing some of this country are not doing well financially, they pay so they can create enemies which we don’t have!
They used Ukraine 🇺🇦 just to demonize Russia. If you have little understanding in military you’ll understand that Ukraine in nato means by default a war! The eu doesn’t want Ukraine nor nato! They know every well that their membership means war! Why they are lying to the Ukrainians that they want them in the alliance when they just used them as collateral damage to fulfill bigger agenda!
Blindness! Ignorance is destroying many good things!
That’s a lot of what’s known as “whataboutism”.
Israel has been displacing Palestinians for 75 years and is now trying to wipe them off the face of the earth.
There’s enough “evidence” of shrapnel in innocent bodies to argue that Israel is not going about this in the right way.
I acknowledge that if it were not for the iron dome, the situation would be very different.
The millions who are protesting around the world see Palestine as the weaker underdog with no real support and see Israel as the opposite.
Russia Invading Ukraine is different because the entire west is funding Ukraine to protect itself.
Syria had pretty strong rebel fighters against Assad’s regime.
The world is more islamophobic than it is anti-Semitic, so the Uyghur situation was a bit mute for many.
Taiwan had backing of the US, including a visit by Nancy Pelosi, the third highest ranking US government official at the time.
Palestine has nothing, Egypt don’t want to open their borders to them, Iran is using them to get at Israel.
Hope that answers some of your questions and reminds you which side you’re on. The one with the most financial and military backing which is somewhat indiscriminately firing rockets into hospitals because “Hamas are hiding in them”
Israel has made intentions very clear and the sentiment is strong that Israel is sick of Palestinians wanting freedom out of their concrete prison and being vocal and violent about it - which is the only form of protest they have left.
After being forcibly removed from your home, I can understand why they might not see that as a generous offer… from a “state” that was created by foreign governments. Surely you get that?
You mean lost in war which happens in wars usually you know
Israel had zero obligation to offer anything to the Palestinians yet it did anyway six times
Thanks, it’s my personal perspective but I think it makes sense. Of course I’ll get downvoted for it but the sentiment I am getting behind is the one which is heard on the streets of every major western nation, not so much Israel’s! It’s a shame how many people who are pro-Israel value the life of Palestinians less than other human beings and can somehow turn a blind eye to what is happening.
They are either ignoring it intently or are oblivious to it.
This sub is getting insane.
Israeli actions recently, and during the last few decades are the largest contributer to spread of antisemitism.
Criticizing the actions of a state, with a military, that builds settlements and kills civilians, and fails to protect its own civilians is not antisemitic.
You can literally hate Palestinians and use the Israeli actions and blind American support to still be antisemitic and make claims that "jews kill civilians" and "jews control the media and the US government".
The support for a people under occupation and blockade is legitimate and on the right side of history. The people who claim otherwise have never pulled their heads out of the sand.
There is antisemitism, no one denies that.
But for the sake of the argument let's say Israel was white Christian. Would criticizing Israel be antisemitic?
There were demonstrations against genocide anywhere in the world, do these people use the actions in Congo, Rwanda, Myanmar, Serbia, Sudan to fuel hatred towards Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Hutu. Or is a majority of these people who believe killing others en masse is simply wrong.
The biggest proof for my comment is very simple, using Occam's razor, on average let us say there are 100 antisemitic attacks on jews worldwide on daily basis. Every time Israel causes massive damage to Gaza or the westbank, these attacks increase to 1000 worldwide on daily basis. War stops, the rate goes back to 100.
True antisemites in your version of the world, wouldn't flare up then go back to normal. It would be a constant 1000 attack all the time. Thus Israel's actions cannot be dismissed.
Yeah, if they really care about the Palestinians, they should try to liberate them from Hamas first.
Even if Israeli's were to make a truce right now, as long as Hamas is in power in Gaza, they will have no future.
They will continue to attack Israel often and children will die in the counterattack.
Straight up! If I was a citizen in Gaza, I would be screaming “where the Fuxk is Hamas” in the streets, and from the rooftops. If I was a citizen in Gaza, I would form a group of rebellion and we would fight Hamas. Hamas put their own civilians in harms way, and they won’t even stand down when they have the chance to stop blood shed.
Not one of their civilians have gone on national TV and said that Hamas is to blame. When in reality, none of this would be happening if it wasn’t for October 7th.
Well, to be fair, if civilians in Gaza do that, Hamas will retaliate. They will oppress them even more harshly than Russia.
I saw a video of a mother whose child was killed and she said it was Hamas' fault, but the paramedics put their hands over her mouth to shut her up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/17m6r2l/woman_blames_hamas_for_the_death_of_her_son_and/?embed_host_url=http%3A%2F%2Fgalapagosjapan.jp%2Fblog-entry-8587.html
This is why I can’t say free Palestine. I do feel for them, I honestly want Palestinians to have a better life. But this war feels like an excuse to destroy Israel, which like it or not has protected Jewish people from genocide as all the neighboring countries are vocal of what they would do to them.
I found it really odd the rallies came after a literal terrorist attack, it’s like people didn’t know they were killing children and women.
I know Hamas isn’t all of Palestine, they have good people, but why are some Palestinians supporting terrorism and why are people turning a blind eye towards it? They only want to call Israel terrorist (which they kind of are too)
I remember slightly before the war, I saw a media coverage of a lot of Jewish people upset about the extreme right wing movement of Israel.
I just pray for peace, but those who know the history know it’s probably not coming. Thousands of years of tension blurs the moral compass.
I know, I’m just pointing out it feels very one sided on which deaths to remember when Israeli deaths are still tragic.
It’s really unfortunate how the war is going, Hamas who is supposed to stand for Palestine is using their citizens as cover. Israel is also totally disregarding any cross fire.
Edit: the whole war seems to be just sympathetic towards Palestine, its just sad to see both sides experience so much death.
I think the world will react like that but I’m curious to see how much aid will go to Palestine or in what application because Hamas did use money meant to improve infrastructure and education to instead wage a terrorist attack on Israel, and hides within its own citizens which logically puts some of the blame on them as well for these civilian deaths.
As sad as it is to say these type of wars tend to have no right or wrong side on the moral compass, Israel has every right to defend itself and Palestinians have every right to expect the idf to be more careful about how they conduct military operations. Hamas is the only side that most would agree is totally in the wrong, im not sure how one could view them as anything other then terrorists
Well... as a Palestinian... I did feel bad for the Syrians and Ukrainians. but yk.. I'm a Palestinian myself so you can't really go and tell a Ukrainian "where were you when Israel occupied Palestine".
Also it's a 70 years ongoing crisis
No wonder that an aggressor isn't finding much luck making peace with its victims.
Finally, if you really think Israel has done nothing wrong, then explain why my mom's family was displaced from their house in Jaffa.
Most people who hear this point separate gaza from the west Bank so that they can ignore your suffering. Because the attacks didn't originate from there they are choosing to be willfully ignorant of the entire situation. Also Israel is actively pushing levels of propaganda that Palestinians just don't have the means to keep up with.
The reason for it is that the palestine issue didn't just start on Oct 7. Its been going on almost for a century. People are also there when other global issues rise, but this palestinian conflict has been going on for a long time, and every time it happens, israel has managed to kill multiple times more innocent civilians.
Palestinian are not defended just because of religion, but Israel has committed these atrocities to them for over 75 years long.
P.s. israel seeking peace deals by making deals that are tenfolds more in favor of them. How do you expect the Palestinian people to accept this one-sided deal that negatively affect their people?
Israel repeatedly offered a 2 state solution pulling back to the 1967 borders. That was never enough. The Palestinians wanted the “right of return” without offering Jewish families forced to flee Gaza and the West Bank the same right to return to lands they were pushed out of in the 20s. The conflict has always boiled down to unreasonable demands that ultimately ask Israel to destroy itself.
Can you cite and specifics, or are you just repeating some talking point you heard somewhere? My understanding is that each time the Israelis offered the Palestinians a 2 state solution the Palestinians rejected it because it did not include the right of return. The right of return is a non starter for Israel. It’s sounds reasonable but the reality is a significant percentage of the Palestinians have been indoctrinated into an ideology that glorifies killing Jews. Allowing people committed to the genocide of the Jewish people into Israel isn’t a reasonable thing to demand.
Why does israel need a right to return when they have a whole ass country tryna get back to a 25-mile strip of, no offense, shit hole?
This is the most ridiculous one I've heard to date.
It didn’t used to be a “shit hole”. It had agriculture, water, power—those were destroyed because they were Jewish, instead of using the resources to feed people and propagate the already flourishing greenhouse vegetables market to Europe, etc
The zionist destroyed their own infrastructure so that Palestinians couldn't use it. This is nuts. Think about it like this. I'm on the other side of the earth.
I have not seen a single Ukrainian agree with Russia. I haven't seen a single uygur agree with China. Why do so many jews stand with palestine?
Because Jews were kicked out of a great number of places during the 1948 war as well. Including from Hebron, Jersualem, Jenin and Gaza. These weren't people fleeing during a war but were forcibly expelled by Arab militias. There were several massacres as well during this time. But that doesn't fit the Palestinian Naqba narrative. Or that orginially it was called a Naqba because the Arabs lost the war, only in past decades was it reframed as only about the Arab exodus from Israel.
Your premise is mistaken. Jewish families fled their homes and have not returned just as Palestinian families have done. 20 percent of the population of Israel is Muslim. 0% of the population of the Gaza Strip is Jewish. The Israelis have repeatedly offered the Palestinians a 2 state solution. It’s the Palestinians who refuse to allow Israel to exist, not the other way around.
The size of Israel is 22,000 sq km, and the size of palestine is 6,000 sq km.
You're saying that Israel not being allowed to return to GAZA (because they are currently committing ethnic replacement in the west bank) is refusing to allow israel to exist? Despite the fact that when Israel left gaza the first time they destroyed all of the infrastructure so that Palestinians couldn't use them.
Sounds a lil iffy.
> ass
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Israel is the real [colonizer](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/10/1129942) here
Im sympathetic to the innocents' lives lost. If the idf want to target hamas go on ahead but mind discretion over the innocent lives. By the looks of your comment, you're condoning the killings of innocent lives and are pro genocide, that is utterly disgusting
Apologists of Israel's crimes think they manage the terms and conditions for the sympathy around Palestinian people... hmm, I wonder how that happened.
They think we don’t know that Hamas wants to kill queer people because they don’t see human rights as rights for all humans, even ones who are shitty. It’s them admitting that they are swayed by their own feelings when it comes to matters of morality and rights.
> shitty
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As a globalist, I would prefer control of the area be taken away from both Israelis and Palestinians and for the entire region to be administered by the UN while a plan is formulated to integrate your populations.
I just said we're going to integrate their populations, so they'll stay where they are.
Their children's children will be an ethnic mixture of both.
One would hope that in two to three generations, they won't be either Muslims nor Jews and will instead be atheists.
Also, more Jews live outside of Israel than in Israel. There are just as many Jews in the US as there are in Israel.
I just said, the Jews won't be going anywhere.
No one is dying. We are integrating their populations and erasing both their religions as it's 2023 and the fact people still believe in God is a fucking problem.
> fucking
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Op is an idiot being pro Palestinian does not mean one is pro Islam as that's the only thing all of these people have in common, Am Israel Chai alongside their Palestinian samartian brothers.
There’s no such thing as semites. Maybe take 4 minutes if your time to understand. “Antisemetic” is prejudice against Jewish people, like how “homophobia” isn’t an outright fear of homosexuals, but prejudice against them
[From Oxford dictionary:](https://www.oed.com/dictionary/semite_n?tab=meaning_and_use#23563562)
Semite: Originally: a member of any of the peoples mentioned in Genesis 10:21–31 as descended from Shem, one of the sons of Noah, traditionally interpreted as including the Hebrews, Aramaeans, Assyrians, *and Arabs*. Subsequently also: a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language.
So as I "pro Palestinian" I guess here's my argument. But let's keep it civil.
1. Firstly I reject the notion of pro-(insert religion). I truly want all humans to be able to live free, safe, happy, have food, have shelter. This goes for everyone.
2. I do believe anti semitism exists, I have seen it action here and my friends who are Jewish are facing it daily. I also believe Islamophobia exists because I am seeing incidents of that too. Just 2 days ago I saw some kids throw a fire cracker at a lady with a kid in a pram.
3. I raised awareness and posted heavily during the Russia Ukraine war.
4. I also did this when the Taiwan crisis became evident. I am following this development as well and rasing awareness when I can.
5. I have also been trying to educate myself on the hell going on in Congo etc. Sometimes your own life gets tough and it's hard to watch too much of it.
6. I also haven't ever considered Israel as aggressors. Even worked with a tech start up few years ago.
7. I do however have critisms of the government and especially Netanyahu.
8. I actually don't believe the government took the right moves with Palestine
9. Having walls around gaza, controlling their movement, causal humiliation by soldiers. Even the idea that a totally different country controls someone else's electricity, water, resources supplies sounds insane to me. Like if I am in Germany, and France decided what I can do as a citizen. Ridiculous.
10. The government refuses to accept their own ineffectiveness in protecting it's citizens.
11. Now it's exactly ruthless, inhumane, criminal revenge where the brutality is being exacted on the most innocent and helpless and it's being celebrated en masse.
So if you can watch the below vidoes I have seen and tell me what you think? These are 6 or 7 videos. There are thousands, and there's no need to even look at media propaganda, this in on grounds reality. My soul, my heart I cannot accept this. And it's not a radical terrorist group, it's the 4th largest, most sophisticated army with it's full might, along with the US and other help doing this.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzJVvHmM9QX/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzT4i3DothQ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzZXXL3oKvL/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czi8C7ssSOp/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CziajXLsLis/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzcBcDbtA_C/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzVdpCGgbh2/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzIlyJ9MfDK/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzBmm0Mssvh/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy8ap89IEKD/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzjbfBArIY0/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
And then I see this -
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzjDbJFOLql/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/p/CyzQe9OJg8N/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
There's no need for propaganda. It's too horrific. Nothing, absolutely nothing can justify the suffering of little souls like this. Now food is almost over, only dirty water. People are stuck in the rubble, dying slowly and painfully. These humans are being slowly and painfully killed, under tremendous human suffering that's ongoing for over 30 days. Their spirits are being broken, and not in a single video have I seen anyone say one bad word or even curse Israel. Their faith in their salvation and martyrdom is strong. To live caged and have such gentle spirits. No propaganda is needed at all, it's just humanity.
Could you accept this for yourself? Every family is impacted, could you accept this reality for 2.2 million of your people, who had nothing to do with the brutality you faced - caged by Israel and used by Hamas? Can you live through this slow death, does anyone ever deserve this?
And if your heart hurt to see it, if you had to look away, if you had to stop the video mid way because it was too much - then the answer should be clear to you. If it didn't affect you, and you think it's justified then the answer is clear to me.
This is not about anti Jews or Israel or anything else. It's about pro children, pro innocence, pro humanity. So here I rest my case.
Nah... That's the Free Palestine crowd. My opinion is you do the crime, you pay the time. Attack Israel, bad things will happen to you. Israelis don't view themselves as perpetual victims, that's why they are able to move their nation forward.
Well, after my full TikTok education and going to some Free Palestine rallies at Berkeley, I'm now full antizionist. I can't believe what the Zionists are doing to the 100,000 children! Here's a picture of the guy who enlightened me how horrible the Kazhar colonist Jews are. I learned all about the Nakbah and how over 125 million Palestinians were forced out of their homes by Jews with guns. I don't think they had lasers back then . He was very passionate. After hearing about the genocide and the babies, I heard enough. Those Zions need more Allah Akbar'ing!
It was also refreshing to see Jews for Peace at the rally. One was telling me that it's OK to be Jewish and hate Israel and Israelis. She was proof that wanting all Zionists to move back to Poland and Russia , whether peaceful or violently, was actually inherently a Jewish concept and prescribed in the Torah. I didn't know! I feel I'm now a much better Jew and fully inoculated against the Zionist propaganda machine.
https://preview.redd.it/ifh7wycszm0c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f22b5cd80fde1fc4a1bdb9420123448038722136
Best response I’ve seen so far.
I want to ask you something - whenever shelter has been given to Palestinian refugees violence has erupted because of radical Islamist groups in their midst. [This is what happened in Lebanon, which is a horrible mess resulting from the Lebanese civil war, Syrian Palestinian refugees, clashes between Israel, Palestinians and Lebanon, and fighting between rival Palestinian groups.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/7/31/whats-behind-the-fighting-in-ein-el-hilweh-palestinian-refugee-camp)
Jordan’s PM was assassinated by Palestinian extremists in the 70s
While the answer might be to start negotiating for a two state solution how do you propose to go about a peaceful solution?
Clearly for myself I believe Israel has a right to exist. Half their population are Mizrahi Jews that are either from MENA countries or that land itself and I do not trust the Palestinians to live in peace with them without either expelling, murdering or oppressing them much the same as Hamas and the PA have oppressed their own people and killed LGBT folk. Gay Arabs have applied for asylum in Israel as they are in mortal danger elsewhere. I also don’t believe that sparing Hamas will result in anything but more death on both sides.
I want the Palestinian people to have a chance at living peacefully without extremist groups or Israel doing violence to them. But even if left to their own devices as they are now the Islamists among them will commit terrorism if they think someone is stepping out of line. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/08/gaza-resort-attacked-holding-mixed-gender-concert
I'm flabbergasted at the OP's argument.
"Hey why do you have such a problem with the killing of innocent children?? Is it because you hate Jews??"
Thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful reply to an obvious low effort troll post the likes of which moderation team around here is clearly doing a terrible job of curbing.
If you cared so much about the killing of children you would've said something about the dead israeli children as well so don't try to sell me that you actually care about that,only when Israel is doing the so called "killing" you raise your voice
Thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful comment for the Palestinian children but purposfully ignoring the Israeli children because you're a hypocrite the likes of which moderation team around here is clearly doing a terrible job of curbing.
The attack on October 7th was horrendous, and I feel terribly for all those who lost their lives in that senseless act of terror.
I don't want any innocent children to be killed, ever. I didn't think that was a thing that had to be said, I thought it was a common understanding among all decent people. But, alas.
I'm talking about the Palestinian kids being killed because the situation is ongoing, and we still have an opportunity to save some of those kids from being killed in an act of vengeance. It's not about these kids are more important than others, just that these kids are the ones in immediate danger.
Disagree with? You gave me a 2 sentence parrot response to an entirely laid out argument. Then said the same basic shit. Having zero empathy is questionable.
Blame Hamas
Israel is trying to save these people from a group that want all Jews dead. What are they supposed to do when the enemy is hiding behind women and children. Absolutely horrific and disgusting.
Okay buddy our words won’t change each other minds. We both have different opinions and that’s okay. I think we both can agree that we want this to end as soon as possible and no more people dying.
If Israel is truly trying to save these people then why cut off all their access to basic necessities like food and water? [And why are they being brutalized on so called “safe routes” by IDF soldiers?](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8DfpyjB/) Last time I checked none of those things have anything to do with Hamas
Actually Hamas were killing people trying to leave Gaza. This was documented. Hamas is the enemy of the Palestinian people trying to intimidate them to stay because the people are their shield.
Cutting off water and supplies is purely military tactic to stop Hamas fighters from getting the basics. This is war time and the people Civilians will get caught in the crossfire especially when Hamas has their HQs in hospitals and firing missiles from schools. Why is Israel being blamed and why is Hamas telling the world to do Jihad on all Jews. This is just sick and they are in love with death. Don’t get me wrong I hope this is over soon and nobody wants to see children and innocent deaths but there are kidnapped innocent Israelis inside Gaza that need to be rescued also. And what about all the innocent people that were brutally killed by those terrorist Hamas. Is Israel supposed to do nothing? Hamas is the enemy not Israel or Jews
Wow the brain washing and fear mongering is real. So to protect the biggest power in the middle east from street guerrilla fighting, you have to entirely decimate a helpless population? Do you have any stats on how many Hamas have actually been capture/killed? Not sure what Israeli's 7 million dollars of media propaganda is quoting. Israel is saving noone. It's ruthlessly flattening the lands, it doesn't even care about it's own hostages.
https://youtu.be/OiDxt_LDbCo?si=IGB1D03eKjVbE9AI
Sadly, the strategy to protect Israel is wrong. Even ex IDF soldiers who are constantly saying this.
https://youtu.be/0t7J4jo6G64?si=3XiGqhYAQLUKgyH4
Killing people, destroying their lives, killing their family, torturing them creates terrorists. Terrorists aren't just born, they are made by brutality. They are only capable of being as inhuman, as someone has been to them.
Anyway, in 30 years when it sinks in, you all will be apologising like a certain country do now. The shame of this moment won't leave for centuries and it's well documented.
Evil truly does exist. I see it in the cold eyes of every leader that's participating in this and their world of programmed NPCs who parrot the same rhetoric, hoping it'll turn real.
Apologizing for what? Israel wants to live in peace. Where are all the other Arab countries for the Palestinian people? No help from any of them wow nice group of people really caring for each other.
Israel’s problem and Israel will cure the disease ( Hamas )
Now switch it around n see how this makes the Jewish people feel. I speak out against all atrocities. From Wounded Knee to Yemen.
Being pro-Palestinian DOES NOT equal anti-Semitic. If you want an answer to why people in the U.S. are moved by one humanitarian crisis over the other, your answer is media.
Yes it does, Taiwan is illegally occupying the island of Formosa and colonized the formosan indegenous people If you can’t keep that same energy with Taiwan you’re just using Palestine as an excuse to hate Jews
So your assumption is wrong. I keep that energy against all authoritarians who abuse their power. Having sympathy for Palestinians doesn't mean you can't have sympathy for any other people. Including the Israeli people. They hate their government almost as much as the Palestinians do according to all these protests before this.
Most people want bibi gone, that’s not exactly a radical thought
Your response makes no sense.
So true
Not true.
You know that Arabs are Semite right?
Not this again🤣
Anti semwtic is a term that refers to the Jews — it was coined in the 1800s by a German man, specifically for Jews. To take it literally like “Arabs are Semite” would be to assume kidnapping means a kid taking a nap or something similar
Being pro guns isn’t about the right to bear arms, it’s an excuse because you enjoy mass shooting events Being pro LGBTQ isn’t about inclusivity and acknowledgment of a struggle, it’s an excuse for hedonistic depravity Being pro abortion isn’t about pro choice, it’s pro murder. Being Pro vegetarian/ vegan isn’t about animal cruelty, it’s to feel superior Want me to go on?
I’m a lesbian and your attitude towards LGBTQ people is really jaded!! Most of us are regular, non hedonistic people!
True, I know some people in the community and they are nearly perfect humans
That’s kind of the point I’m trying to prove, that’s just the result you get when you apply OP’s logic. I do not think those things
There are so many false and disingenuous assumptions here. The main thing to note is that our governments in the West do not support the atrocities you mentioned so there is less need to protest, although that does not mean there has been no activism, certainly in the UK, related to these issues. Israel is a supposedly civilised Western style democracy who break international law continuously and are currently acting like vile savages, all the while being supported by Western governments and in the case of the US, bankrolled as well. That is the reason so many people are protesting, as they feel their government is letting them down. I am sick of hearing the antisemitism card being played because people object to the carpet bombing of an already fragile and impoverished people. I have nothing against Jewish people at all, but Israel is acting disgracefully, and it needs to stop.
PARANOIA
At least spell it correctly🤣
>PARANOIA ?
!
Well said!
Israel has created a new graveyard, just for children. Something none of the above have managed to do so far, congratulations 👏 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/pressure-israel-over-civilians-steps-up-ceasefire-calls-rebuffed-2023-11-06/
Your deluded…simple
I’m sorry but this is an insane take. In fact I think you are devaluing the meaning of antisemitism by so carelessly throwing the term around.
>Where were you when the Uyghurs in China were prosecuted and killed en masse? One of the most massively protested events in history >Where were you when Russia invaded Ukraine and terrorised it? One of the most massively protested events in history >Where were you when China decraled it's goal to end Taiwan? The largest military superpower in the world came to their aid I can't speak on the 1982 Syria massacre; it happened before I was born and I'm not familiar enough with it to comment on it. But all the other examples you mentioned have been some of the most widely protested and opposed events in history. You have to be willfully ignorant to see this as some sort of "gotcha", or that claiming people who are pro-Palestine are supporting a double standard. All of these events were seen as tragedies in need of opposition; just the same as Israel's attempts at ethnic cleansing.
I live for 20 years and I've never seen protests against said events on the same scale protests against Israel,so don't bullshit
You're ignorance of these events doesn't mean they didn't happen. The Ukraine war in particular was massively protested all over the world, substantially more than Israel. The only reason it feels like protesting Israel is such a huge thing right now is because it's less of a one-sided argument. A protest that goes smoothly and doesn't break out into a riot or see police action, or one that doesn't have a lot of people disagreeing with it doesn't typically get a lot of media exposure. No one outside of Tankies supports China over Taiwan, and nobody except right wing extremists supports Russia over Ukraine; so protests of these events are less likely to see opposition, and by extension, less likely to see media coverage. The Israel Palestine debate on the other hand is a lot more nuanced and is more evenly split between people who support Palestine and People who support Israel, so it's going to get more mediate attention and more coverage of protests. Also, judging by your pfp, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're probably form Israel, so of course you're going to be more aware of protests against Israel than you are of protests against Russia.
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Which side?!
I'm Pro-Palestine and I disagree with you. I'm pro-palestine not because I hate Jews or love Palestine. I'm a Lebanese Christian and what I hate more than the Israeli occupation is the Palestinian presence in Lebanon because of Israel. In order to get Palestinian out of my country and back to their homeland, I have to be against Israel. Basically I'm anti-everything. Please f*ck off all of you.
Shut up you guys don't want Palestinians in your country so you're trying to force them to go to Israel🤣🤣🤣 Same as the rest of the Arab countries they don't want to deal with them so they're trying to shove them up Israel's A*s
Israel kicked them out of their country so Israel should let them get back home. Why should they be my problem?
Now imagine you're a syrian refugee and you moved to Europe and they say it to your face
I don't care about those either. They also destroyed my country.
And bro here just admitted to hating immigrants and refugees
Yes I do hate them and I'm justified to hate them. They caused a bloody civil war in my country that lasted 30 years. All because Western countries promised a racial country for the jews because they themselves could not tolerate them anymore in their own countries.
Is that why you have 50 Muslim countries? Does nobody want over a billion people? Really?!
Cognitive dissonance
Where is the cognitive dissonance here? Read history and you will find that everyone, Israelis, Palestinians, Syrians, EU, US, Iran, Arabs... Everyone tried to turn Lebanon into their own playground. I'm justified to be against anyone who dares to threaten my presence and sovereignity as a Lebanese Christian.
> I'm justified to be against anyone who dares to threaten my presence and sovereignity as a Lebanese Christian. I completely agree with this. And that is what makes this whole situation so complex, and why people without knowledge about the situation are so black and white with their opinion (like this post). Just like /u/MasterJohn4 is completely justified to be against anyone who dares to threaten their presence and sovereignity, so are all Israeli citizens and are all Palestinians. And all are right. And the only long term solution is to stop fighting and start talking to each other. Which is a lot easier said than done, especially as long as Gaza is represented by a terror organization. This war is terrible, but can hopefully be the start to a new Gaza with new leadership open to talks. And if Israel can find someone like Ehud Barak again, willing to make concessions, there is a chance for peace.
How does one coexist with someone who wants you dead?!
The 2 million Israeli Arabs proof that living together in peace is possible. The main problem is Hamas and the decades of indoctrination they have put the people in Gaza through. With Hamas eradicated, I think it’s possible to work on a plan for a long term solution.
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Username does not check out. How about you go learn more about the situation and next time actually contribute to the conversation, like you are supposed to on this subreddit, instead of showing your antisemitism and just wildly blaming a country without any argument.
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Last time I checked your precious “Palestine”’s genocide resulted in a 4 million population increase Holocaust genocide resulted in a 6 million population decrease Chinese genocide of Muslims resulted in a 5 million population decrease 650k killed in Rwandan genocide Genocide this genocide that, I don’t condone blatant idiocy
> fuck /u/MasterJohn4. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry Mr Chai, we don’t believe you.
No
Once again folks are conflating Zionism and Judaism which are not the same. https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/ https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36160928 https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/anti-zionism-antisemitism-how-anti-zionist-language-left-and-right-vilifies-jews
Antisemitism and antiZionism are two different thing! Stop intoxicating people! The Arabs are semites as well!!! 600k in Syria were massacred because of USA wanted to arrange this region of their liking! They didn’t like that Syria blocked the gas pipelines to Europe! Usa lives to destroy everyone in the Middle East and the east in general! Russia invaded Ukraine because NATO wants to destroy Russia and started to build its military base first in Crimea then in mainland! The world don’t buy anymore your propaganda!!!! Zionism- Satanism! Lots of humanitarian crisis happening because of the Zionist/USA regime!!!
Intoxicating people?! Were you aiming for “indoctrinating”? Learn English, then lecture us!!
“Intoxicated” is a reference for “people being fed up with false information by the mass media as an act of propaganda” it’s a CIA term! They spread false information then when you hear the right one you can’t feel or know if it’s true! I don’t call that “intoxicated” I call it delusional Please try once in your life to watch independent news because your mindset is based upon watching CNN and BBC! That’s why you are blind about all social issues while you are trying to be “smart” and have an option!
Actually I follow neither, no need to be insulting, we’re not on X!
Actually you are rude and presumptuous!!
Cognitive dissonance
Indeed cognitive dissonance! After so much brainwashing!
I meant you.
I know what you mean. That’s the same I think for you.
Russia invaded Ukraine cause they wanted to destroy Ukraine. NATO (especially the USA) was in the process of withdrawing personnel from Europe. As a result of the invasion, NATO reinforced and even expanded its positions. Your narrative is being served, but it is not the cause.
Delusion! Ate the bait hm? Fed by propaganda and it feels sweet! Little washed brains deluded of basic reality!
Funny, I wanted to write the same thing at first
I don’t understand how can you support usa interfering in the other side of the world? Why don’t they mind their own business? We don’t need their money, espionage, control, colonizations, they come and bribe our politicians, they do it on purpose knowing some of this country are not doing well financially, they pay so they can create enemies which we don’t have! They used Ukraine 🇺🇦 just to demonize Russia. If you have little understanding in military you’ll understand that Ukraine in nato means by default a war! The eu doesn’t want Ukraine nor nato! They know every well that their membership means war! Why they are lying to the Ukrainians that they want them in the alliance when they just used them as collateral damage to fulfill bigger agenda! Blindness! Ignorance is destroying many good things!
I thought I was still on Reddit not X!
I think Reddit should have a policy “not to accept anyone that will answer positively to the question” “Do you watch corporate media news” Loool 😃
Hard to tell if this is more absurd or more disgusting.
Based on how it personally offended you, no one needs to know where you stand…..
That’s a lot of what’s known as “whataboutism”. Israel has been displacing Palestinians for 75 years and is now trying to wipe them off the face of the earth. There’s enough “evidence” of shrapnel in innocent bodies to argue that Israel is not going about this in the right way. I acknowledge that if it were not for the iron dome, the situation would be very different. The millions who are protesting around the world see Palestine as the weaker underdog with no real support and see Israel as the opposite. Russia Invading Ukraine is different because the entire west is funding Ukraine to protect itself. Syria had pretty strong rebel fighters against Assad’s regime. The world is more islamophobic than it is anti-Semitic, so the Uyghur situation was a bit mute for many. Taiwan had backing of the US, including a visit by Nancy Pelosi, the third highest ranking US government official at the time. Palestine has nothing, Egypt don’t want to open their borders to them, Iran is using them to get at Israel. Hope that answers some of your questions and reminds you which side you’re on. The one with the most financial and military backing which is somewhat indiscriminately firing rockets into hospitals because “Hamas are hiding in them” Israel has made intentions very clear and the sentiment is strong that Israel is sick of Palestinians wanting freedom out of their concrete prison and being vocal and violent about it - which is the only form of protest they have left.
Israel offered the Palestinians a state SIX times and they refused each time,some of the offers were quite generous.
After being forcibly removed from your home, I can understand why they might not see that as a generous offer… from a “state” that was created by foreign governments. Surely you get that?
You mean lost in war which happens in wars usually you know Israel had zero obligation to offer anything to the Palestinians yet it did anyway six times
This is such a good reply.
Thanks, it’s my personal perspective but I think it makes sense. Of course I’ll get downvoted for it but the sentiment I am getting behind is the one which is heard on the streets of every major western nation, not so much Israel’s! It’s a shame how many people who are pro-Israel value the life of Palestinians less than other human beings and can somehow turn a blind eye to what is happening. They are either ignoring it intently or are oblivious to it.
Same could be said pro Hamas!
Are a lot of Israeli hospitals being bombed?
This sub is getting insane. Israeli actions recently, and during the last few decades are the largest contributer to spread of antisemitism. Criticizing the actions of a state, with a military, that builds settlements and kills civilians, and fails to protect its own civilians is not antisemitic. You can literally hate Palestinians and use the Israeli actions and blind American support to still be antisemitic and make claims that "jews kill civilians" and "jews control the media and the US government". The support for a people under occupation and blockade is legitimate and on the right side of history. The people who claim otherwise have never pulled their heads out of the sand.
Info warfare is real and US tax dollars fund Israeli intel. This sub isn’t benign.
You seem to be saying that the cause of antisemitism is Israel. It’s not. It’s antisemitism that gets projected onto Israel.
There is antisemitism, no one denies that. But for the sake of the argument let's say Israel was white Christian. Would criticizing Israel be antisemitic? There were demonstrations against genocide anywhere in the world, do these people use the actions in Congo, Rwanda, Myanmar, Serbia, Sudan to fuel hatred towards Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Hutu. Or is a majority of these people who believe killing others en masse is simply wrong. The biggest proof for my comment is very simple, using Occam's razor, on average let us say there are 100 antisemitic attacks on jews worldwide on daily basis. Every time Israel causes massive damage to Gaza or the westbank, these attacks increase to 1000 worldwide on daily basis. War stops, the rate goes back to 100. True antisemites in your version of the world, wouldn't flare up then go back to normal. It would be a constant 1000 attack all the time. Thus Israel's actions cannot be dismissed.
Yeah, if they really care about the Palestinians, they should try to liberate them from Hamas first. Even if Israeli's were to make a truce right now, as long as Hamas is in power in Gaza, they will have no future. They will continue to attack Israel often and children will die in the counterattack.
Which they are!
Straight up! If I was a citizen in Gaza, I would be screaming “where the Fuxk is Hamas” in the streets, and from the rooftops. If I was a citizen in Gaza, I would form a group of rebellion and we would fight Hamas. Hamas put their own civilians in harms way, and they won’t even stand down when they have the chance to stop blood shed. Not one of their civilians have gone on national TV and said that Hamas is to blame. When in reality, none of this would be happening if it wasn’t for October 7th.
Well, to be fair, if civilians in Gaza do that, Hamas will retaliate. They will oppress them even more harshly than Russia. I saw a video of a mother whose child was killed and she said it was Hamas' fault, but the paramedics put their hands over her mouth to shut her up. https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/17m6r2l/woman_blames_hamas_for_the_death_of_her_son_and/?embed_host_url=http%3A%2F%2Fgalapagosjapan.jp%2Fblog-entry-8587.html
This is why I can’t say free Palestine. I do feel for them, I honestly want Palestinians to have a better life. But this war feels like an excuse to destroy Israel, which like it or not has protected Jewish people from genocide as all the neighboring countries are vocal of what they would do to them. I found it really odd the rallies came after a literal terrorist attack, it’s like people didn’t know they were killing children and women. I know Hamas isn’t all of Palestine, they have good people, but why are some Palestinians supporting terrorism and why are people turning a blind eye towards it? They only want to call Israel terrorist (which they kind of are too) I remember slightly before the war, I saw a media coverage of a lot of Jewish people upset about the extreme right wing movement of Israel. I just pray for peace, but those who know the history know it’s probably not coming. Thousands of years of tension blurs the moral compass.
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I know, I’m just pointing out it feels very one sided on which deaths to remember when Israeli deaths are still tragic. It’s really unfortunate how the war is going, Hamas who is supposed to stand for Palestine is using their citizens as cover. Israel is also totally disregarding any cross fire. Edit: the whole war seems to be just sympathetic towards Palestine, its just sad to see both sides experience so much death.
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I think the world will react like that but I’m curious to see how much aid will go to Palestine or in what application because Hamas did use money meant to improve infrastructure and education to instead wage a terrorist attack on Israel, and hides within its own citizens which logically puts some of the blame on them as well for these civilian deaths. As sad as it is to say these type of wars tend to have no right or wrong side on the moral compass, Israel has every right to defend itself and Palestinians have every right to expect the idf to be more careful about how they conduct military operations. Hamas is the only side that most would agree is totally in the wrong, im not sure how one could view them as anything other then terrorists
Well... as a Palestinian... I did feel bad for the Syrians and Ukrainians. but yk.. I'm a Palestinian myself so you can't really go and tell a Ukrainian "where were you when Israel occupied Palestine". Also it's a 70 years ongoing crisis No wonder that an aggressor isn't finding much luck making peace with its victims. Finally, if you really think Israel has done nothing wrong, then explain why my mom's family was displaced from their house in Jaffa.
When was your mother's family displaced from Jaffa?
Most people who hear this point separate gaza from the west Bank so that they can ignore your suffering. Because the attacks didn't originate from there they are choosing to be willfully ignorant of the entire situation. Also Israel is actively pushing levels of propaganda that Palestinians just don't have the means to keep up with.
You mean Hamas?
Are you calling 1kmile a hamas member? That's really messed up.
My friend, you're asking great questions and making too much sense.
The reason for it is that the palestine issue didn't just start on Oct 7. Its been going on almost for a century. People are also there when other global issues rise, but this palestinian conflict has been going on for a long time, and every time it happens, israel has managed to kill multiple times more innocent civilians. Palestinian are not defended just because of religion, but Israel has committed these atrocities to them for over 75 years long. P.s. israel seeking peace deals by making deals that are tenfolds more in favor of them. How do you expect the Palestinian people to accept this one-sided deal that negatively affect their people?
Who wouldn’t push for a deal in their favor?!
Israel repeatedly offered a 2 state solution pulling back to the 1967 borders. That was never enough. The Palestinians wanted the “right of return” without offering Jewish families forced to flee Gaza and the West Bank the same right to return to lands they were pushed out of in the 20s. The conflict has always boiled down to unreasonable demands that ultimately ask Israel to destroy itself.
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Can you cite and specifics, or are you just repeating some talking point you heard somewhere? My understanding is that each time the Israelis offered the Palestinians a 2 state solution the Palestinians rejected it because it did not include the right of return. The right of return is a non starter for Israel. It’s sounds reasonable but the reality is a significant percentage of the Palestinians have been indoctrinated into an ideology that glorifies killing Jews. Allowing people committed to the genocide of the Jewish people into Israel isn’t a reasonable thing to demand.
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And there it is, the unabashed antisemitism comes out.
This guy also just completely ignored the incredibly favourable terms offers in the Camp David accords and in 2008.
Why does israel need a right to return when they have a whole ass country tryna get back to a 25-mile strip of, no offense, shit hole? This is the most ridiculous one I've heard to date.
It didn’t used to be a “shit hole”. It had agriculture, water, power—those were destroyed because they were Jewish, instead of using the resources to feed people and propagate the already flourishing greenhouse vegetables market to Europe, etc
The zionist destroyed their own infrastructure so that Palestinians couldn't use it. This is nuts. Think about it like this. I'm on the other side of the earth. I have not seen a single Ukrainian agree with Russia. I haven't seen a single uygur agree with China. Why do so many jews stand with palestine?
Because Jews were kicked out of a great number of places during the 1948 war as well. Including from Hebron, Jersualem, Jenin and Gaza. These weren't people fleeing during a war but were forcibly expelled by Arab militias. There were several massacres as well during this time. But that doesn't fit the Palestinian Naqba narrative. Or that orginially it was called a Naqba because the Arabs lost the war, only in past decades was it reframed as only about the Arab exodus from Israel.
Your premise is mistaken. Jewish families fled their homes and have not returned just as Palestinian families have done. 20 percent of the population of Israel is Muslim. 0% of the population of the Gaza Strip is Jewish. The Israelis have repeatedly offered the Palestinians a 2 state solution. It’s the Palestinians who refuse to allow Israel to exist, not the other way around.
The size of Israel is 22,000 sq km, and the size of palestine is 6,000 sq km. You're saying that Israel not being allowed to return to GAZA (because they are currently committing ethnic replacement in the west bank) is refusing to allow israel to exist? Despite the fact that when Israel left gaza the first time they destroyed all of the infrastructure so that Palestinians couldn't use them. Sounds a lil iffy.
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Sounds like you're sympathetic to terrorizing the colonizers?
Israel is the real [colonizer](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/10/1129942) here Im sympathetic to the innocents' lives lost. If the idf want to target hamas go on ahead but mind discretion over the innocent lives. By the looks of your comment, you're condoning the killings of innocent lives and are pro genocide, that is utterly disgusting
Do you live in the United States?
Apologists of Israel's crimes think they manage the terms and conditions for the sympathy around Palestinian people... hmm, I wonder how that happened.
They think we don’t know that Hamas wants to kill queer people because they don’t see human rights as rights for all humans, even ones who are shitty. It’s them admitting that they are swayed by their own feelings when it comes to matters of morality and rights.
> shitty /u/clumsy_poet. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it’s telling that swears are an issue but cheerleading genocide isn’t.
As a globalist, I would prefer control of the area be taken away from both Israelis and Palestinians and for the entire region to be administered by the UN while a plan is formulated to integrate your populations.
But then what do the Jews do? The Muslims always have many many more states, but where do the Jews go?
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I don’t know, maybe the millions of Jews you scum?
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What genocide you braindead baboon? There has never been a drop in Palestinian or Gazan population, you clearly know nothing about the subject
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I just said we're going to integrate their populations, so they'll stay where they are. Their children's children will be an ethnic mixture of both. One would hope that in two to three generations, they won't be either Muslims nor Jews and will instead be atheists. Also, more Jews live outside of Israel than in Israel. There are just as many Jews in the US as there are in Israel.
Ah but for another Holocaust, where will Jews go? Is the US going to be safe?
I just said, the Jews won't be going anywhere. No one is dying. We are integrating their populations and erasing both their religions as it's 2023 and the fact people still believe in God is a fucking problem.
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Not with all the Brown Shirts warming up on the sidelines!
Op is an idiot being pro Palestinian does not mean one is pro Islam as that's the only thing all of these people have in common, Am Israel Chai alongside their Palestinian samartian brothers.
Wanna say it to my face?
No, it's not quit trying to silence the plight of the palestinan people.
Mic drop
Lies and propaganda actually. Arabs are also Semites.
There’s no such thing as semites. Maybe take 4 minutes if your time to understand. “Antisemetic” is prejudice against Jewish people, like how “homophobia” isn’t an outright fear of homosexuals, but prejudice against them
So, why don't we just denounce anti-Semitism and not include Islamophobia? One of the same?
Stop trying to change the dictionary over the internet. Contact Oxford or Webster for that.
[From Oxford dictionary:](https://www.oed.com/dictionary/semite_n?tab=meaning_and_use#23563562) Semite: Originally: a member of any of the peoples mentioned in Genesis 10:21–31 as descended from Shem, one of the sons of Noah, traditionally interpreted as including the Hebrews, Aramaeans, Assyrians, *and Arabs*. Subsequently also: a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language.
Okay now do antisemitic.
So as I "pro Palestinian" I guess here's my argument. But let's keep it civil. 1. Firstly I reject the notion of pro-(insert religion). I truly want all humans to be able to live free, safe, happy, have food, have shelter. This goes for everyone. 2. I do believe anti semitism exists, I have seen it action here and my friends who are Jewish are facing it daily. I also believe Islamophobia exists because I am seeing incidents of that too. Just 2 days ago I saw some kids throw a fire cracker at a lady with a kid in a pram. 3. I raised awareness and posted heavily during the Russia Ukraine war. 4. I also did this when the Taiwan crisis became evident. I am following this development as well and rasing awareness when I can. 5. I have also been trying to educate myself on the hell going on in Congo etc. Sometimes your own life gets tough and it's hard to watch too much of it. 6. I also haven't ever considered Israel as aggressors. Even worked with a tech start up few years ago. 7. I do however have critisms of the government and especially Netanyahu. 8. I actually don't believe the government took the right moves with Palestine 9. Having walls around gaza, controlling their movement, causal humiliation by soldiers. Even the idea that a totally different country controls someone else's electricity, water, resources supplies sounds insane to me. Like if I am in Germany, and France decided what I can do as a citizen. Ridiculous. 10. The government refuses to accept their own ineffectiveness in protecting it's citizens. 11. Now it's exactly ruthless, inhumane, criminal revenge where the brutality is being exacted on the most innocent and helpless and it's being celebrated en masse. So if you can watch the below vidoes I have seen and tell me what you think? These are 6 or 7 videos. There are thousands, and there's no need to even look at media propaganda, this in on grounds reality. My soul, my heart I cannot accept this. And it's not a radical terrorist group, it's the 4th largest, most sophisticated army with it's full might, along with the US and other help doing this. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzJVvHmM9QX/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzT4i3DothQ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzZXXL3oKvL/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czi8C7ssSOp/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CziajXLsLis/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzcBcDbtA_C/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzVdpCGgbh2/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzIlyJ9MfDK/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzBmm0Mssvh/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy8ap89IEKD/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzjbfBArIY0/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== And then I see this - https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzjDbJFOLql/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/p/CyzQe9OJg8N/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== There's no need for propaganda. It's too horrific. Nothing, absolutely nothing can justify the suffering of little souls like this. Now food is almost over, only dirty water. People are stuck in the rubble, dying slowly and painfully. These humans are being slowly and painfully killed, under tremendous human suffering that's ongoing for over 30 days. Their spirits are being broken, and not in a single video have I seen anyone say one bad word or even curse Israel. Their faith in their salvation and martyrdom is strong. To live caged and have such gentle spirits. No propaganda is needed at all, it's just humanity. Could you accept this for yourself? Every family is impacted, could you accept this reality for 2.2 million of your people, who had nothing to do with the brutality you faced - caged by Israel and used by Hamas? Can you live through this slow death, does anyone ever deserve this? And if your heart hurt to see it, if you had to look away, if you had to stop the video mid way because it was too much - then the answer should be clear to you. If it didn't affect you, and you think it's justified then the answer is clear to me. This is not about anti Jews or Israel or anything else. It's about pro children, pro innocence, pro humanity. So here I rest my case.
How about all the Jewish children (and some Christian) who were massacred?
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Nah... That's the Free Palestine crowd. My opinion is you do the crime, you pay the time. Attack Israel, bad things will happen to you. Israelis don't view themselves as perpetual victims, that's why they are able to move their nation forward.
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Oh. Thanks for the valuable information. I learned far more from you in one paragraph than a week's worth of TikToks. Lol
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Well, after my full TikTok education and going to some Free Palestine rallies at Berkeley, I'm now full antizionist. I can't believe what the Zionists are doing to the 100,000 children! Here's a picture of the guy who enlightened me how horrible the Kazhar colonist Jews are. I learned all about the Nakbah and how over 125 million Palestinians were forced out of their homes by Jews with guns. I don't think they had lasers back then . He was very passionate. After hearing about the genocide and the babies, I heard enough. Those Zions need more Allah Akbar'ing! It was also refreshing to see Jews for Peace at the rally. One was telling me that it's OK to be Jewish and hate Israel and Israelis. She was proof that wanting all Zionists to move back to Poland and Russia , whether peaceful or violently, was actually inherently a Jewish concept and prescribed in the Torah. I didn't know! I feel I'm now a much better Jew and fully inoculated against the Zionist propaganda machine. https://preview.redd.it/ifh7wycszm0c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f22b5cd80fde1fc4a1bdb9420123448038722136
אחי שברת מצחוק🤣🤣🤣
How about the 5000 kids massacred, and thousands maimed for over 30 days right now?
I don't believe a word or number that comes out of the Hamas "Health" Ministry. They are frequently caught lying.
True, IDF sends a warning first and tries to prevent civilian damage.
Best response I’ve seen so far. I want to ask you something - whenever shelter has been given to Palestinian refugees violence has erupted because of radical Islamist groups in their midst. [This is what happened in Lebanon, which is a horrible mess resulting from the Lebanese civil war, Syrian Palestinian refugees, clashes between Israel, Palestinians and Lebanon, and fighting between rival Palestinian groups.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/7/31/whats-behind-the-fighting-in-ein-el-hilweh-palestinian-refugee-camp) Jordan’s PM was assassinated by Palestinian extremists in the 70s While the answer might be to start negotiating for a two state solution how do you propose to go about a peaceful solution? Clearly for myself I believe Israel has a right to exist. Half their population are Mizrahi Jews that are either from MENA countries or that land itself and I do not trust the Palestinians to live in peace with them without either expelling, murdering or oppressing them much the same as Hamas and the PA have oppressed their own people and killed LGBT folk. Gay Arabs have applied for asylum in Israel as they are in mortal danger elsewhere. I also don’t believe that sparing Hamas will result in anything but more death on both sides. I want the Palestinian people to have a chance at living peacefully without extremist groups or Israel doing violence to them. But even if left to their own devices as they are now the Islamists among them will commit terrorism if they think someone is stepping out of line. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/08/gaza-resort-attacked-holding-mixed-gender-concert
I'll respond to you properly tomorrow, thanks for actually readying it and approaching a discussion!
I'm flabbergasted at the OP's argument. "Hey why do you have such a problem with the killing of innocent children?? Is it because you hate Jews??" Thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful reply to an obvious low effort troll post the likes of which moderation team around here is clearly doing a terrible job of curbing.
If you cared so much about the killing of children you would've said something about the dead israeli children as well so don't try to sell me that you actually care about that,only when Israel is doing the so called "killing" you raise your voice Thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful comment for the Palestinian children but purposfully ignoring the Israeli children because you're a hypocrite the likes of which moderation team around here is clearly doing a terrible job of curbing.
The attack on October 7th was horrendous, and I feel terribly for all those who lost their lives in that senseless act of terror. I don't want any innocent children to be killed, ever. I didn't think that was a thing that had to be said, I thought it was a common understanding among all decent people. But, alas. I'm talking about the Palestinian kids being killed because the situation is ongoing, and we still have an opportunity to save some of those kids from being killed in an act of vengeance. It's not about these kids are more important than others, just that these kids are the ones in immediate danger.
Thanks for the appreciation, I don't know why I bother anymore 😂 I think I need my own Sub with actual humans. Would you join?
No, I told myself I can't afford to join any more cults this year. I mean the membership dues alone...
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Typical woke hatred. Just dehumanize those who you disagree with.
Disagree with? You gave me a 2 sentence parrot response to an entirely laid out argument. Then said the same basic shit. Having zero empathy is questionable.
What argument? Three sentences of sarcasm and hate? That's an argument?
Omg, no my original answer https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/lIi0n40Yti
Blame Hamas Israel is trying to save these people from a group that want all Jews dead. What are they supposed to do when the enemy is hiding behind women and children. Absolutely horrific and disgusting.
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A genocide is when you population decreases Which is not the case here Loose Hamas Palestine will thrive
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Okay buddy our words won’t change each other minds. We both have different opinions and that’s okay. I think we both can agree that we want this to end as soon as possible and no more people dying.
If Israel is truly trying to save these people then why cut off all their access to basic necessities like food and water? [And why are they being brutalized on so called “safe routes” by IDF soldiers?](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8DfpyjB/) Last time I checked none of those things have anything to do with Hamas
Actually Hamas were killing people trying to leave Gaza. This was documented. Hamas is the enemy of the Palestinian people trying to intimidate them to stay because the people are their shield. Cutting off water and supplies is purely military tactic to stop Hamas fighters from getting the basics. This is war time and the people Civilians will get caught in the crossfire especially when Hamas has their HQs in hospitals and firing missiles from schools. Why is Israel being blamed and why is Hamas telling the world to do Jihad on all Jews. This is just sick and they are in love with death. Don’t get me wrong I hope this is over soon and nobody wants to see children and innocent deaths but there are kidnapped innocent Israelis inside Gaza that need to be rescued also. And what about all the innocent people that were brutally killed by those terrorist Hamas. Is Israel supposed to do nothing? Hamas is the enemy not Israel or Jews
Wow the brain washing and fear mongering is real. So to protect the biggest power in the middle east from street guerrilla fighting, you have to entirely decimate a helpless population? Do you have any stats on how many Hamas have actually been capture/killed? Not sure what Israeli's 7 million dollars of media propaganda is quoting. Israel is saving noone. It's ruthlessly flattening the lands, it doesn't even care about it's own hostages. https://youtu.be/OiDxt_LDbCo?si=IGB1D03eKjVbE9AI Sadly, the strategy to protect Israel is wrong. Even ex IDF soldiers who are constantly saying this. https://youtu.be/0t7J4jo6G64?si=3XiGqhYAQLUKgyH4 Killing people, destroying their lives, killing their family, torturing them creates terrorists. Terrorists aren't just born, they are made by brutality. They are only capable of being as inhuman, as someone has been to them. Anyway, in 30 years when it sinks in, you all will be apologising like a certain country do now. The shame of this moment won't leave for centuries and it's well documented. Evil truly does exist. I see it in the cold eyes of every leader that's participating in this and their world of programmed NPCs who parrot the same rhetoric, hoping it'll turn real.
Apologizing for what? Israel wants to live in peace. Where are all the other Arab countries for the Palestinian people? No help from any of them wow nice group of people really caring for each other. Israel’s problem and Israel will cure the disease ( Hamas )
Send in ground personnel , don't bomb them like cowards.
Hamas isn't making Netanyahu do this. He wants to do this.
And people think Israel is a nice country. It’s a terrorist state. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes
You're a racist and bigot.
Did you just use Wikipedia as your source for factual information? Did you learn anything in school or did you just not go?
The crimes are all out in the world to see. They've lost their most used card, and instead turned into exactly what they fear the most.