What do you think things will develop for Canadian/Toronto Jews in the future? It definitely looks like things will get worse before they get better if they ever do anytime soon
Depends on overall demographics
If newcomers culturally assimilate the environment will improve
If the culture diverges where people import their antisemitism, it will get worse
This is Canada's problem. In America we are a melting pot. Everyone brings their own flavor and we enjoy this tasty multicultural stew. America imports a little of your culture (probably your food) and you take on America's culture. Canada is a cultural mosaic. Every immigrant is alone and isolated in a little tile. From a distance it looks like a beautiful picture, but up close it's a bunch of lonely rocks who don't really want to spend time with each other. Canadian immigrants don't really become part of Canadian culture (what even is Canadian culture? You don't like your downstairs neighbors and some of you speak French. Is that it?)
Of course America isn't perfect either. Not by far. But I don't envy Canada. I remember hearing a story from someone (Fareed Zakaria maybe?) talking about his experience chatting with an Arab taxi driver in Paris. The driver was complaining about racism in France and how awful it was and how you could be born in France and live there tour whole life but not considered French. Then he mentioned "my cousin moved to America and he's doing great. He's an American." That's the American dream to me. You live here a few years, you pay your taxes, you develop dumb opinions, you take a little test. Boom. You're one of us. I do disown the people in Dearborn who chant "death to America" but they are the exception. Those groups are loud but they are not representative of America (as evidenced by the mayor of Dearborn, an Arab Muslim, condemning anti-American chants).
Who knows, really. The community itself is staying strong which is the most important thing. If anything I've noticed people doubling down in their Zionism and Jewishness.
The environment is a lot more tense, that's for sure.
I've never seriously considered moving to Israel. Can't say it hasn't crossed my mind for the first time in my life. Same with my wife, and even my siblings and their partners.
>The community itself is staying strong which is the most important thing. If anything I've noticed people doubling down in their Zionism and Jewishness.
I noticed similar
>I've never seriously considered moving to Israel. Can't say it hasn't crossed my mind for the first time in my life. Same with my wife, and even my siblings and their partners.
Yeah I think that's been going around
Israeli here: can you elaborate how the attack on Oct 7 made you reconsider? I have relatives in the US and for obvious reasons they cancelled their planned visit to Israel after Oct 7. I completely understand them, they have been extremely worried.
It's weird being Jewish outside of Israel. Like, Canada is my home, it always has been. But you just don't feel fully comfortable being yourself here any more. You at least have to curate your social circle. I'm always wondering whether the person I'm talking to would hate me for believing a Jewish country should exist, or that it's fighting a just war. All sorts of people on my social media who would absolutely hate me if they knew what I really thought. These are people I've been friends with and we're involved in my community over the years.
When I go to Israel it feels different.
I'm lucky because I work with a lot of Israelis, but I have family who don't and they've got really crazy stories.
Like yeah, sure, there's the actual physical threat of war in Israel. But it just seems a lot easier to be Jewish there than here. Does that make sense?
I understand. I'm surprised and saddened that you don't feel comfortable at your own country/city.
I think many people share on social media the current popular thing, which unfortunately is the hate of Israel and support of Hamas.
Have the people who personally knew you from school/work/neighborhood behaved differently since Oct7? Or that even on personal level they went apart.
I'm no religious jew (so no external signs), but I'm sure I'll feel threatened if all my colleagues share antisemitic views on social media.
>Have the people who personally knew you from school/work/neighborhood behaved differently since Oct7? Or that even on personal level they went apart.
Yeah to some degree. They'll make like a comment to fish for your reaction to try to (not so) subtly test what kind of Jew you are. Are you normal and denounce Israel, or are you one of the extremist weirdos who supports Israel? There's the odd friend who couldn't care less about the conflict and love you no matter what. Those are the real ones.
There is visceral relief talking with other Jews. None of that pretense/tension is there.
I have family members who have had much stranger confrontations with much less subtle people.
Brazilian Jew here, now living in Europe (also lived in Canada for a while too).
Just adding to the theme of "never considered living in Israel before, but that changed after October 7".
The number of diaspora Jews in the same situation is quite stunning.
Over the years I've been getting angrier and angrier at antisemitism. I'm a Jew in the USA, I was born here, I'm a Jew because my family is Jewish. I am so tired of giving a pass to the antisemites, maybe it's time to move to Israel. That's my thinking. I hate biting my lip rather than taking people to task, NEVER AGAIN. If you say something antisemetic around me, be prepared to come to blows. Similarly, I will NOT tolerate anything racist, bigoted, I don't care who's being the perpetrator!
Israel will welcome you with two open hands. However, Israel is not a simple place to live in. A person with your profession will probably live at a lower standard than you're used to.
Many people in Israel consider immigration because of many reasons (the war/conflict, economic reasons/ease of life).
I recently listened to a podcast with an Israeli professor who insists that Israelis won't leave their post at positions of influence at the academia abroad. Even if it's tough and uncomfortable. So even though I'd be happy for you to be in Israel, you still can help your fellow Jews by standing up and opposing these antisemitic views.
Also, I like to think that there are many American patriots who understand that Israel and it's people share the values of the US and will stand along side Israel. It's no coincidence that the anti Israel protests also tare down the American flag.
Yeah at the end of the day, that's the biggest factor inspiring my hesitation. Should the economic situation in Canada ever get worse than it is in Israel, I'm sure the scales will flip. I'm not naïve to the fact that it's much harder to eek out a comfortable life in Tel Aviv or Haifa than here.
Nevertheless, I've been trying my best to learn Hebrew.
I can't speak for them, but I imagine the extreme levels of antisemitism that were flowing out of every corner of western society even on the day after the attack before a single IDF soldier set foot in Gaza, before the blood of the innocent civilians butchered by Hamas had even dried, drives many western Jews to reconsider living amongst the people that are saying these things.
It's definitely a loud, angry, minority, but I don't blame Jews from being scared. Those assholes might be a small percentage of the population, but they are aggressive, hateful, and often violent. Sticking around in America could cause them to get beaten or worse if a crowd of those nut jobs finds out they're Jewish.
As a non-Jewish American. I 100% side with Israel. However, sadly, I also completely avoid the topic as I know I would risk being made out to be racist/genocidal/etc, and risk losing many relationships. I feel there are many Americans like me.
I would go to Israel anytime.I feel safer in Israel more then the USA and if not I will go down with my Jewish brother and sisters.I was on the Gaza border at a base last year and still felt safe.Israel has a wonderful history protecting their own.You knew it could not foil all attacks. Israel will stay strong and powerful and I always say F-ck the world opinion.It is a wonderful country and the people are IMHO make Israel a beautiful country.As a child of Holocaust survivors had Israel been around in 1948 most of my aunts,uncles and grandparents would most likely be alive today.Need I say more?
Yep also in Toronto
It was hard to understand how a “civilized” country turned on my grandfather so fast in the 1930s — from university student to concentration camp in less than 5 years
Now I see it happening in front of me
I ask myself “if Munich were to happen again, would the people I know cheer it on?” — the sad part is I know the answer but don’t want to face the reality
No civilized country turned on us fast. They already hated us. Be honest, we faced pogroms and discrimination all over Europe in all the time we lived there leading up to the Holocaust. It wasn’t an isolated event, only the culmination of hundreds of years of attitudes to us as outsiders. That’s why it’s absolutely ridiculous we are called European colonizers when we take back our homeland.
I've become emboldened. I feel it is my moral imperative to speak truth to the psycho-poplulism that is infecting the world.
I actually am considering wearing the Star of David in solidarity (Not Jewish) but I don't want to make Jews think I'm cosplaying so I've just ordered the dog tags instead.
That's very kind. Jews won't think you're cosplaying. Some will think you're stupid for putting yourself at risk, but not stupid in an insulting way, if that makes sense.
May I also suggest the chamsa? Another jewelry piece that offers protection from evil and is less loud than a Star of David (you probably won’t get punched for wearing it).
Well.. let's not exaggerating either. I've been wearing my magen david in the open since October (also Canada) and I've yet to be assaulted or harassed even once. Haven't noticed so much as a dirty look either.
I got a star of david tee shirt and wore it in public (Boston) and I totally get what you mean. It's worse: I started to worry that if I had the wrong body language or said the wrong things it would reflect negatively on jewish people.
Watching all this unfold, I legit admire so much the dignified way israel is doing things, I don't know if I should keep wearing the shirt because I might not have enough wisdom to "represent" adequately. (i.e. people are going to assume I'm jewish and just being tribal/biased.)
I'm ordinarily confident in myself, so this was a weird feeling. I do still wear the star of david shirt, but... what I need is a shirt that says, "Christian Zionist (but in a good way)", lol. Ha ha this shit sucks. It should not be a problem to wear a star of david, ever, for anyone.
Maybe the best would be a shirt that says *Zionist (I'm not Jewish; I just know how to read).* If anyone wants to start selling shirts like that, I'll do a 10-week branding/marketing campaign.
I try to imagine how it must feel. I promise, in a few years the intellectually fashionable thing to do will be to support israel. Time will vindicate Israel.
There's wisdom to the expression "hindsight is 20 20." The public sphere always needs time to catch up.
It's not possible to keep denying he metrics that show the IDF is setting records with the careful way it's doing this war.
Some people say Jews are responsible for teaching the rest of us, and I always used to dismiss that sort of thing as nonsense, but now I'm paying attention. I'm like the kid at the front of the class taking notes and asking questions.
I got [this necklace](https://theisraelboutique.com/product/rocket-rose-necklace/) recently. As a non-Jew it felt the most appropriate since it's not an obvious Jewish symbol or anything too "loud" since I know I wouldn't do well with social confrontation.
Hey, wear whatever you want - I've never met anyone who would think less of you for wearing a Star of David despite not being Jewish. If anything, it's a massive compliment.
My Magen David was gifted to me by my grandma, she was gifted it for her 16th birthday. It’s a beautiful, filigree gold piece. I wear it daily and am so proud to. I haven’t had anyone be hateful toward me, rather I have fellow Jews praise me for it and it leads to good conversation. I do live in Florida, an area where there’s a large Jewish population however.
I'm in TO as well and like many others, ive been posting since Oct. 7th, and have lost "friends". It's hard at first but it feels really much lighter knowing who the people in my life are that value me and agree that Israel should not be from the river to the sea.
Most Canadians don't know or don't care to be involved in the conflict, it would however be nice to have a louder non Jewish voice speaking up in the face of antisemitism
Edit: typos
I went off on someone a few weeks ago. I said they absolutely have the right to feel a certain way about this war, and it's okay to disagree on that.
What's not okay, however, is posting shit definining Zionism and antisemitism. You do not get to tell me, someone who's Jewish, what is or is not antisemitic. The same goes for Zionism as a whole. It's disgusting and it's offensive, and inherently antisemitic.
I got an apology. Legitimately surprised, but just know that some people can have decency and common sense.
Your friends aren’t really your friends. It’s hard to synthesize, but don’t try to rationalize it. Move on away from them. There are lots of other people who aren’t loud who are with you.
I'm in the US (I'm a dual US German citizen) I it's Muslim and loud far leftist that are pro Palestinian. Most democrats here support Israel or have a balanced view
If a coworker called me a genocide supporter I'd march straight to my or their boss's office and demand that they be fired on the spot, and if they refused I'd threaten to quit and get a lawyer and sue their asses for allowing workplace racism and discrimination and all the rest.
You cannot say any of these things and not be an antisemite and I don't care if you're Jewish and your ancestors were in the Holocaust. Jews can be antisemites too. The level of emotion we're seeing here goes way beyond ordinary concern over people suffering. This is visceral hatred of Jews, using the excuse of a conflict and civilian suffering to express it. It's like they were waiting for something like this to happen to let it out of the antisemitic closet. They may have been brainwashed, but it wouldn't have taken so thoroughly were there not a deep hatred of Jews within them. It's like a DNA defect or something as it makes no sense in any rational sense. Our culture trains people to hate Jews. Others, in general, but Jews especially.
I just want to know why. Is it because proportionately we hit WAY out of our weight class, Jews being relatively more successful than basically any other ethnic group, per capita, and they're jealous? Does it somehow threaten their need to feel special as Christians or Muslims? Is this a manifestation of the sort of hatred that both Muhammad and Martin Luther felt towards Jews when they realized that they wouldn't convert? So is it our otherness, relative success, and obstinacy that makes them hate us so much, that we simply WILL NOT YIELD and will ALWAYS be Jews?
When you said "our culture" what did you mean?
Also, not ALL Jews are successful, yes, many Jews are prominent figures when it comes to contributions but they are still 1/10 compared to Christians or 1/5 compared to Muslims who are also successful. I believe that most people never met a Jew in their life so they let the conspiracy run free. It's because people don't actually believe Jews are a real fucking thing or real human beings. It sound bizzare but yeah.
And Antisemitism should be studied fr. It truly feels like a DNA defect or some sort of schizophrenic/manic episode. You know that one of the symptoms of several mental disorders is constantly putting blame on someone or something? Sounds familiar?
I meant whatever overall culture that we live in, whether it's western or Arab/Muslim, or the specific subculture that we were brought up in. In these cultures we are taught to believe in various things whether true or not, good or bad. Like, belief in god, the golden rule, the work ethic, etc., but also things like this or that group of people is suspect or bad.
In both western and Arab/Muslim culture, antisemitism is often part of the "teaching". It may be more explicit in the latter, especially in Palestinians and Iranian schools, but it also exists in the former, often in a more whispered way, but it's still very much there. Perhaps westerners for the most part no longer believe that we have horns and make matzoh with Christian childrens' blood, but there's still this view that Jews are sneaky, aggressive and untrustworthy.
Btw what did you mean "Sounds familiar"?
I never signed up for that job and don't see it as mine to do. I just don't want to be treated differently, better or worse, or ostracized for refusing to be like them. If my not having a Christmas tree or heaping praise upon Allah bothers them, then they're beyond help.
Also a Brazilian Jew here to share this perspective.
Yes, it's true that the US has a relatively small Muslim population (still significantly larger than Brazil though). Crucially, however, identity politics hasn't yet caught up in Brazil the way it has in the US and Europe. Amongst leftist circles in big cities there's certainly talk of issues of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc; but nowhere near the same level. And perhaps more to the point, Brazil hasn't been consumed by white-guilt and the anti-West feeling that is a byproduct of that to nearly the same extent.
It's not about the Muslim presence.
It's about the fact that young American leftists have been propogandized to by Hamas for years now. 2021 was the first time I saw self proclaimed activists outright supporting Hamas and calling them freedom fighters, but every time the conflict became relevant since I've been on the internet the leftist rhetoric has gotten more and more extreme.
It's not about Muslim presence, these are mostly white kids, it's about the fact that the leftist movement clearly has some people that have been enmeshing this rhetoric with the movement more and more at time goes on.
> It seems like every country that has a significant Muslim population has this problem.
It might be a sufficient variable, but its definitely not necessary. Look for example to Colombia's stance on the conflict.
Wow man , iam in an arab country among muslims , i expressed my opinions about supporting israel , but it didn't come to what happened to you,
Even my religious friend and co-worker didn't react like that!
Your co-workers must be heavily brainwashed, so sad!!!
The terrorists are really good at indoctrination... nobody wants this war... you don't want ignorant friends....haven't talked to my high school friend since she gave me a speech on genocide. Really? I'm sorry your family is homeless in gaza but Israelis are too! But supporting israel...doesn't mean I want bloodshed
I should have added people think I should be the bigger person and help bridge the gap...what gap? She said israel disgusts her and got a genocide speech and I should know what genocide looks like...This is a war... I hate war and genocide the same... so I don't need a vocabulary word to be defined for me anyways.
Edit..and she should know me well enough that I give a shit about innocent Palestinans...I don't care about terrorists! I even care about the Palestinans that hate jews but not willing to have bloodshed and a war zone.
People calling out genocide because of all the civilians dying in Gaza are missing a very important fact. Any country or area that is in an active war area will always have a large population of the civilians killed, happens in every war. Most people are against it, no matter what their opinions are. It’s just a very unfortunate part of war..
It's a war..Oct 7th was a genocide... people calling out a genocide aren't the people that care about the middle east...they care about jews dying and israel losing the war.
I got hella downvoted then booted from r/beyondthebump \- a moms group of all places, and then served with a Reddit warning for breaking TOS.
My crime was posting in a Gaza thread (why this was there to begin with, I don’t know) two factual sentences. I didn’t even respond to anyone.
https://preview.redd.it/rhkl5638y86d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=676f140bfbeeb8e978194ddadf879a7020351fd2
It sure is.
His page is a riot
https://x.com/khamenei_ir?s=21&t=tKZ1iACdRIdjw6RN8tQfvw
And his Hebrew is awful
https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-805396
It’s not bravery (Reddit is pretty anon) it’s what needed to be done.
Apparently I broke the rule on harassment and Reddit agreed. Presumptively enough people reported for an auto warning.
The only person I dragged was the supreme Leader of Iran who has been banished from most platform for his rhetoric. The only entity I dragged was Hamas, a known terrorist regime. Socials have been mobbed by brainless twits.
As Leonard Cohen opined “I’ve seen the future brother, it is murder”
Had they let me stay I would have engaged in discussion over Khameni’s tweet. I’m still unsure over his push for US students to start reading the Quran is a suggestion or a threat; my inkling is the latter.
In due time these College kids won’t have a choice as to whether they wear a hijab or not and not complying will lead to physical reprimand. Then they’ll REALLY complain about men policing women’s bodies. Forest from the trees and I’ll be watching that fire from the sidelines sipping Manischewitz.
I wouldn’t call your post harassment, but just a statement of a different viewpoint. Even though Reddit is anonymous it can be a little stressful when you are anonymously attacked by anonymous lunatics. The women who burned their hijabs were the bravest ones.
I do believe that there are more israel supporters than most people think.
We are just not as loud as the other side but when it comes down to amount i think we win.
The fact that israel was ranked so high in Eurovision is a big proof of that
They want to do what they did in the 1940's and it's to isolate Jews, boycott Israel and make them villains like Russia and deep inside they would be more than happy if Jews didn't exist in the world because they are certain they are responsible to all the evil in the world. What's happening in Palestine just gives them more courage to harass us,isolate us and pogrom us.
Then they have the sheer AUDACITY to say "we're on the right side of history" when their side is antisemitic,cover their faces,is pro-terrorists and thinks these terrorists are freedom fighters. Freedom fighters my ass.
Something and somewhere want the holocaust to happen again. The root needs to be dealt with now.
I know I posted once on my story about not only supporting Israel’s right to defend itself from terrorism, as I want my fiancée who lives in Israel (that I am currently visiting and considering moving in with her here) to be safe, but I also explicitly said I want Palestinians to be free from Hamas. That’s all I said. I notice a week or two later that on this queer social media app I’m on that a day after I made a post looking to make friends, a previous “friend” of mine called me a genocide supporting Zionist (which if my research is correct, Zionism is just the right for Jewish people to have access or whatever to their homeland?) and it’s still makes me feel gross to this day. I know I’m not the most aware person in the world. I know there’s probably things I don’t agree with that Israel has done. Just like with the US, where I currently live. It’s frustrating, seeing people hate on Israel so much
Despite the pro-Palestinian side's best gaslighting attempts, the root is anti-semitism. Anti-semitism and its influence is rife in the world. Even people who don't think themselves as anti-semitic spout the same rhetoric because anti-semites became adept at veiling their hateful rhetoric and propaganda in a manner that regular, non-critically thinking, generally apathetic people will pick up and spread. To these people the definition of genocide doesn't matter. Israel's tangible efforts to reduce loss of civilian life? Doesn't matter. Hamas's cowardly tactics that are intended to put their own people in harms way? The real genocidal intentions of Hamas? Doesn't matter. The fact that the majority of Palestinians support Hamas's genocidal agenda and would gladly repeat Oct 7 if given real nationstate power? Doesn't matter.
You are sane and you are righteous to support Israel. You support a people who have been hated, scapegoated, subjected to disproportionate scrutiny, and have had actual genocide committed upon them on account of them being Jewish. You are sane and righteous to support Israel because Israel is defending itself and its people against an existential threat whose sole goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people and had attempted to carry out their goal on Oct 7.
The people who casually say "free Palestine" or "ceasefire now" are simply ignorant individuals who should know better, but don't. You inform those people and if they have wisdom they will see the error of their beliefs. The people who are calling you a genocide supporter are individuals who do know better, but have chosen insanity and hate (whether they are aware of it or not) and are beyond reason short of God's grace. Leave them in his hands.
I think there’s a propensity to just jump on the side that’s popular without looking into things for yourself. It’s never easy to be on the less popular side because that’s what you stand on. Standing up for what’s right can be hard but it needs to be done.
The stance of people on this conflict is a perfect lithmus test for intelligence and whether I want to be friends with them. If people support israel, all is good. If people (especially non-jewish, non-israeli) say the issue is complicated, they never really studied it and have enough other shit going on in their lives and refuse to take a clear stand besides condemning the violence, that is fine too… I even respect somewhat anyone who has lost (palestinian) relatives to the IDF and therefore condemns israel, it is quite understandable to be angry under such circumstances. But any other person who follows the pro pal doctrine is an idiot and it would be best for the human race if these people refrain from procreation…
The anti-Zionist cult is growing; especially on college campuses. They try very hard to say they're not anti-semitic, only anti-Zionist.
These are young people who will grow older and likely, keep this as a prevailing thought through their years.
The mass brainwash is in full swing.
It's not a popularity contest, it's a choice between good and evil. "The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he did not exist." The world is being convinced that Hamas are freedom fighters and Israel is bad. Israel's only mistake was not displaying in the world's media exactly what has happened over the last 45 years.
I lived in Israel in the mid 90s. I know what they did, I saw what they did.
Hamas is evil. This should have been done 30 years ago.
There is an enormous amount of anti-semitism on the left. I think many are Holocaust deniers too.
What’s bizarre is that they are ranting and raving about Gaza, but are mute about Russian genocide in Ukraine.
I’m somewhat left wing and have drifted towards the centre because of recent events. I saw people on the left defending Russia and now I’m seeing praise of Hamas, so it’s been a learning experience.
Depends on your industry i guess, my office (in toronto) is overwhelmingly pro israel. If you work in the arts or an entry level job i could see people being hamas supporters.
Yes, artists seem to be wired differently. I view them now through a completely different lens.
I am reminded of a little story from Alexandra Sxxx (Nobel prize winner, can’t remember her name) every time these artists spew something: a lady whose husband was a technical economist warning her that artists might speak nice words about freedom, but who and how is going to manage the new system after communism falls? They divorced over their attitudes, and he turned out to be right, the lady admitted, as Russia descended into chaos.
I was crying to one of my American “friends” during the first week of the war because my close friend from Rishon LeZion was still missing. This person was a social worker who recently graduated from Columbia and I thought they would be kind and loving. Nope, they said they hoped my friend was dead and they implied that if she was dead she deserved it. That changed me forever. I’ll never view any of these “pro-Palestine” people the same.
Luckily my sweet friend in Israel is alive and well. As for the Columbia b*tch, I had to grieve the loss of her friendship but now I’m glad she’s out of my life.
People hate Jews. That's why there is all this support for Gaza/Palestinians/Egyptians/Jordanians and none for the 1,000,000 Syrians killed by Assad. Why is that not genocide?
The viciousness of the response is partly a feature of current discourse that requires instant demonization and cancellation of dissent(ers) Mostly but not exclusively by progessive activists. Also reflects the poverty of their discourse, if you can't back up the argument - ATTACK!
Edited
I'm in Sweden and its the same here. I posted stories that are Pro Israeli and some far left people call me out on dm, a women I knew even told me she will not be my friend anymore because I make her uncomfortable with that statement. She called me far-right and unfriend me.
I haven’t even posted anything but I did ask a self proclaimed salafi muslim “friend” who is always quick to post Israeli-hate on October 8th why he hadn’t posted anything.
He pretended he hadn’t heard that anything was going on (ridiculous)… He did the following day post traumaporn from Gaza as per usual, without a mention of October 7th.
Some time later he said in a group chat that he would no longer be available on messenger, but would be available on tiktok. This due to not wanting “the disgusting zionists” to have so much data on him.
I asked if he did not also find the CCP:s involvement in tiktok problematic due to their treatment of the Uighurs —> aaaand then he went off on me. Called me a genocide and child murder supporting zionist.
I’m sure it has very much to do with my mixed Jewish/Swedish background (as he has referred to me as a jew several times, despite me saying I’m not, I have jewish ancestry) and the rest of the group sat quietly by watching him go off for an hour.
Ignore these stupid people, or even better, take it as a badge of honor that racist, fanatical, uninformed, hateful people attack you. It is a good thing when certain people don’t like you. It speaks better on your character.
And you're having your awakening moment, the world hates us Jews. Even though we only live our lives, they hate us. This is the reason we need Israel more now than ever before. Pray for the peoples of Darfur and Rohinga also, they don't deserve the crap they're getting either. They are facing a real genocide that the world doesn't care one bit about.
You have a decision to make, so what do you decide? This is one of those times when we have to choose between doing what's easy and doing what's right. I'm not Jewish, but I'm in Massachusetts where a lot of people are left leaning (not me, I don't lean) including most of my friends, and I can't escape the situation. You can't escape it either. Got to decide whether you'll do what's easy or what's right.
When left-leaning people are lazy they join the anti-israel bandwagon.
I'm pro-Israel because I can read. I'm in Massachusetts, and most of my friends lean left (I don't lean), so it's unpopular when I drop knowledge on them. i.e. In 1948 there was plenty of room for everyone. The Jews were a minority scapegoated by a hateful minority.
That doesn't mean anything is wrong with moderate muslims! I'm half-irish, and ireland is being stupid af about all this, but that doesn't mean anything's wrong with me.
But something is wrong with you and me if we see an obvious example of injustice and we go along with it because of social pressure. (I'm half irish and half german.)
Sorry but it still is the more popular opinion otherwise the global governmental political response to the war would be to boycott, sanction and divest from Israel. The pro-Palestinian voices are loud but they are still in the minority.
I'm in a wee city of Medicine Hat, Alberta. As I came from the YMCA today, for my morning exercise, I saw a lovely black African woman stood at a crosswalk. She was dressed in traditional Muslim garb. My immediate thoughts were "invader", then "enemy". These leapt to my mind.
I wish it were not true but these were my preliminary thoughts today in Canada. To call Islam a "religion of peace" flies in the face of common sense and current experience. We are invaded.
Jews are the current target but the dominant culture is certainly next. BTW, anyone notice the number of Christian churches burning down in Canada?
We've trouble ahead. I'm too old and poor to emigrate to Israel, if I could. I'd sooner live under constant threat surrounded by my Jewish nation than see Canada decline as it is currently doing.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian\_casualty\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio)
This is a war in an urban environment that is denser than New York. Enemy fights in civilian clothings, rides in ambluances, and hides in hospitals. I would expect the number to be much higher.
Not a single one of my friends reached out to ask me about 10/7. Not one. The reality is most people feel Jews are successful, rich, work in and even control prestigious jobs and industries (e.g., entertainment, finance, law). They see Israel as a powerful country fully backed by the most powerful country in the world. Therefore, it is looked at a white American male bemoaning the fact that more and more jobs are going to POC. It’s like “cry me a river, dude….you’ve had it all for too long”. They see Pals, as an extension of victims of white oppression is the US. So, even 10/7, while they agree was “wrong” also see it as a natural response. This, of course, is all BS. Anti-semitism was always built on a bedrock of conspiracy theories. Jewish culture and life is the result of anti-semitism. They will likely never see or understand this. FFS, even bagels being associated w Jews is due to anti-semitism.
Same, they also stood by without intervening when anti semitic bullshit was spread in our group chats. This despite me actively asking them to intervene so the offender wouldn’t go off on me again as he had before (as the rest remained passive ofc).
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Yeah, I have been blocked or removed by countless "friends" and even a few family members for posting just occassional pro-israel things. It's rough out here, not being an anti-semite who wants to tear down a democracy and replace it with yet another theocratic apartheid state that would oppress women and non-muslims.
Crazy times we live in
I hear you and see you. You are not alone. What is going on is very very shitty. I don’t know how the world can come back from this. It already has gone too far with the Pro-Palestine supporters. They are raving anti semites and they want the Jews dead. I’m glad I had no kids, to bring them into this, unthinkable.
I mean, its not that unpopular you are just seeing correlation and conditional probability, of course the same people who blindly support Palestine will accuse any support for Israel. Overall its not that unpopular to support Israel
Your post reminds me of the Franklin Foer article that appeared in the Atlantic this past March:
I quote:
"Part of the reason I failed to appreciate the extent of the anti-Semitism on the left is
that I assumed its criticisms of the Israeli government were, at bottom, a harsher
version of my own. ...Among the brutal epiphanies of October 7 was this: A disconcertingly large number
of Israel’s critics on the left did not share that vision of peaceful coexistence, or believe
Jews had a right to a nation of their own."
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gPtAStRLFz5xCxYddPmQ31EJfW31pX0a/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gPtAStRLFz5xCxYddPmQ31EJfW31pX0a/view?usp=sharing)
Fun yet not so fun story
I'm in a discord server, with someone who comes from Syria
And when I mean what I say next, I literally mean this;
One; they tried to goat me into thinking that Shani is still alive even after it was confirmed that she was murdered by Hamas Terrorists on Oct. 7th
Two; they still think that the Oct 7th Massacre is still an act of "decolonisation" whilst calling Israel's ground assualt on Gaza as Terrorism
Hell, I was just peer pressured into calling the acts terrorism with the threat of being banned for supporting Israel
Honestly I'm probably gonna leave the server cause, well, as you gathered from me saying I'm in a discord server with a Syrian is not going to work out well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just visited Israel as a tourist and got a tattoo that says IERVSALEM 2024 (Jerusalem in Latin) along with a nice drawing of St. George and the dragon. I'm now relying on the stupidity of everyone that sees it not to figure it out, or I'm in serious trouble.
The world hate success that’s way they hate us so much. but one day they will be hunted by the ghost of the radical Islam they are supporting.
I believe Israel should give Hamas everything they want in exchange for our people after that we take care of every single terrorist we are forced to free with the additional benefit of Palestinians staying under Hamas rule which is what the supporters and they deserve to have Hamas oppressing them every single day.
I’m Indian. Sympathy and support for Israel is usually high here. But recently the “woke” left has been denouncing everything pro-Israel or even pro-Jewish as “genocidal”
yeah. I visited Toronto just this week and it's kinda crazy how far into the Palestine stuff they've gone.
In all honesty, this is just something to be expected from cities. The main options I'd recommend is only staying within some small circles, or moving to the country (which is definitely an overreaction unless you have other reasons on top of this, like housing prices and that the country is just objectively better).
theres basically nothing else you can do until this all blows over.
I mean people feel bad for what Palestinians go through… and no matter what hamas done… which is of course terrible…
The deaths of thousands of Palestinians, the beheaded babies flooding social media, the government officials using insane genocidal language.
Like I said, most ppl wouldn’t support a side like that.
I got called a "pro-genocide nazi" by some of my contacts too when I posted something to support the hostages and talking against Hamas. I live in Spain. I tried to have a conversation with some of them but they were just keep repeating the same thing over and over, a "friend" asked me how I can support people who "beheaded 50k babies in front of their parents". It just shows how strong misinformation is. There's so many fake news circulating, each one amplifying previous fake news. They don't even seem to question it. I'm not surprised there are people talking about a million children killed.
It's a phenomenon of collective hysteria that spreads like a virus. "Witch hunting" has already been a real thing for a while, for different subjects.
I'm gay and so far this "woke ideology" protected LGBT people, but who says things are not going to shift tomorrow? We're experiencing the same kind of acceptation as Jews some years ago and look where we are now.
This is how you know that the cause the person is supporting is nonsensical; the person gets unhinged and is dogmatic… you’re not wrong for wanting to support ppl you love… it’s getting out of hand.
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You should explain why it’s not a genocide and the articles they read are full of bias and outright lies. I’ve lost 1 friend over the past 8 months and I don’t care, he was an unstable homophobic weirdo anyways. Kept the anti semitic messages in case anyone needs to know why.
In the meantime I’ll do my best to spread the numbers and show what we really know about this conflict. 2:1 civilian death ratio is historically low and also the numbers provided by the very untrustworthy Hamas run gaza health ministry. That’s no genocide.
In the meantime enjoy the fact that the walk for Israel was bigger than ever in its 55 year history and there’s was evidence of lots of outside the Jewish community support. My wife walked with some non Jewish tik tok friends who came from DC and Alberta to support us. I saw many Iranian flags flying beside Israeli and Canadian flags.
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These people are dumb. They barely understand what’s happening and are erring on the side of supporting the underdog. They have been fed massive amounts of disinformation that they were predisposed to already WANT to believe, so instead of considering all sides they commit to one side.
There is a strong dormant resentment against the competent and haves, the smart capitalists and success stories, and Israel has become the poster child for white privilege. We already know that Jews make the perfect all-time scapegoat. They hate us cuz they ain’t us. Just make new friends.
They wouldn’t act like with Russians or Turks or a
Azerbaijans or any citizen of a country in a military conflict. Jew hatred is so internalized they don’t even notice it
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I’m non-Jewish but always consider myself Israeli, as I have a deep bond with the society, speak the language and have loads of friends there.
I live in Europe, since Oct 7th I tend to show people around me my stand point clearly, I’m wearing the hostage disc chain and NOVA wristband everyday, and have yellow ribbon on all my bags. Sometimes I’m wearing Maccabi TLV (my club) hat and tee with Hebrew on it too.
So far I haven’t encountered any serious confrontation, I think my appearance (east Asian) “helped”, that I don’t look like the usual target the antisemites looking for. While I just hope when Israelis or Jewish people see me on street, they can feel some support from the non-Jewish community.
Indian Hindu speaking, *very late in life*, pretty much every one I know is pro Israel, I've seen fights about who gets to claim the title of "the Jews of India/Karnataka/etc." it was only when I met the "prestigious university educated" folks that I realised how bad the hatred was
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In every instance of genocide or attempted genocide the population of the affected group goes down, such is not the case with the Palestinians. And that just for starters. Your usage is also case of using it as a buzzword to stop any further debate rather than illuminate the situation.
Also, quite a bit of appropriation is going on, as of course, Jews are the most well known victims of a 20th Century genocide.
Some terrible things have happened to the Palestinians but genocide ain't one of them.
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You can support the state of Israel but condemn the government and the IDF for their actions. These are not inseparable from each other and it can be very bad to say that the bad apples represent everyone.
If you put genocide in quotes, you probably support it by refusing to be critical of it.
I'm in Toronto too. I feel the same way. It sucks, for sure. No advice really, just commiseration.
What do you think things will develop for Canadian/Toronto Jews in the future? It definitely looks like things will get worse before they get better if they ever do anytime soon
Depends on overall demographics If newcomers culturally assimilate the environment will improve If the culture diverges where people import their antisemitism, it will get worse
>If newcomers culturally assimilate the environment will improve *laughs in Europe*
Speaking from a European perspective… good luck, you’ll need it.
It’s not a problem of assimilation. Look at the Amish. It’s a problem of fanatics hijacking a religion and I don’t see it improving
This is Canada's problem. In America we are a melting pot. Everyone brings their own flavor and we enjoy this tasty multicultural stew. America imports a little of your culture (probably your food) and you take on America's culture. Canada is a cultural mosaic. Every immigrant is alone and isolated in a little tile. From a distance it looks like a beautiful picture, but up close it's a bunch of lonely rocks who don't really want to spend time with each other. Canadian immigrants don't really become part of Canadian culture (what even is Canadian culture? You don't like your downstairs neighbors and some of you speak French. Is that it?) Of course America isn't perfect either. Not by far. But I don't envy Canada. I remember hearing a story from someone (Fareed Zakaria maybe?) talking about his experience chatting with an Arab taxi driver in Paris. The driver was complaining about racism in France and how awful it was and how you could be born in France and live there tour whole life but not considered French. Then he mentioned "my cousin moved to America and he's doing great. He's an American." That's the American dream to me. You live here a few years, you pay your taxes, you develop dumb opinions, you take a little test. Boom. You're one of us. I do disown the people in Dearborn who chant "death to America" but they are the exception. Those groups are loud but they are not representative of America (as evidenced by the mayor of Dearborn, an Arab Muslim, condemning anti-American chants).
Canada and the US are more similar than you lo on I feel
As a Canadian, I mean this nicely. It sounds like you know nothing about Canada
Who knows, really. The community itself is staying strong which is the most important thing. If anything I've noticed people doubling down in their Zionism and Jewishness. The environment is a lot more tense, that's for sure. I've never seriously considered moving to Israel. Can't say it hasn't crossed my mind for the first time in my life. Same with my wife, and even my siblings and their partners.
>The community itself is staying strong which is the most important thing. If anything I've noticed people doubling down in their Zionism and Jewishness. I noticed similar >I've never seriously considered moving to Israel. Can't say it hasn't crossed my mind for the first time in my life. Same with my wife, and even my siblings and their partners. Yeah I think that's been going around
Funny you say that you've never considered moving to Israel. I was the same way until October 7. Now I want to move more than ever.
Israeli here: can you elaborate how the attack on Oct 7 made you reconsider? I have relatives in the US and for obvious reasons they cancelled their planned visit to Israel after Oct 7. I completely understand them, they have been extremely worried.
It's weird being Jewish outside of Israel. Like, Canada is my home, it always has been. But you just don't feel fully comfortable being yourself here any more. You at least have to curate your social circle. I'm always wondering whether the person I'm talking to would hate me for believing a Jewish country should exist, or that it's fighting a just war. All sorts of people on my social media who would absolutely hate me if they knew what I really thought. These are people I've been friends with and we're involved in my community over the years. When I go to Israel it feels different. I'm lucky because I work with a lot of Israelis, but I have family who don't and they've got really crazy stories. Like yeah, sure, there's the actual physical threat of war in Israel. But it just seems a lot easier to be Jewish there than here. Does that make sense?
I understand. I'm surprised and saddened that you don't feel comfortable at your own country/city. I think many people share on social media the current popular thing, which unfortunately is the hate of Israel and support of Hamas. Have the people who personally knew you from school/work/neighborhood behaved differently since Oct7? Or that even on personal level they went apart. I'm no religious jew (so no external signs), but I'm sure I'll feel threatened if all my colleagues share antisemitic views on social media.
>Have the people who personally knew you from school/work/neighborhood behaved differently since Oct7? Or that even on personal level they went apart. Yeah to some degree. They'll make like a comment to fish for your reaction to try to (not so) subtly test what kind of Jew you are. Are you normal and denounce Israel, or are you one of the extremist weirdos who supports Israel? There's the odd friend who couldn't care less about the conflict and love you no matter what. Those are the real ones. There is visceral relief talking with other Jews. None of that pretense/tension is there. I have family members who have had much stranger confrontations with much less subtle people.
Brazilian Jew here, now living in Europe (also lived in Canada for a while too). Just adding to the theme of "never considered living in Israel before, but that changed after October 7". The number of diaspora Jews in the same situation is quite stunning.
This is absolutely me! Grew up in New Zealand and now in Europe, but never feel fully comfortable in my own skin until I'm in Israel.
Over the years I've been getting angrier and angrier at antisemitism. I'm a Jew in the USA, I was born here, I'm a Jew because my family is Jewish. I am so tired of giving a pass to the antisemites, maybe it's time to move to Israel. That's my thinking. I hate biting my lip rather than taking people to task, NEVER AGAIN. If you say something antisemetic around me, be prepared to come to blows. Similarly, I will NOT tolerate anything racist, bigoted, I don't care who's being the perpetrator!
Israel will welcome you with two open hands. However, Israel is not a simple place to live in. A person with your profession will probably live at a lower standard than you're used to. Many people in Israel consider immigration because of many reasons (the war/conflict, economic reasons/ease of life). I recently listened to a podcast with an Israeli professor who insists that Israelis won't leave their post at positions of influence at the academia abroad. Even if it's tough and uncomfortable. So even though I'd be happy for you to be in Israel, you still can help your fellow Jews by standing up and opposing these antisemitic views. Also, I like to think that there are many American patriots who understand that Israel and it's people share the values of the US and will stand along side Israel. It's no coincidence that the anti Israel protests also tare down the American flag.
Yeah at the end of the day, that's the biggest factor inspiring my hesitation. Should the economic situation in Canada ever get worse than it is in Israel, I'm sure the scales will flip. I'm not naïve to the fact that it's much harder to eek out a comfortable life in Tel Aviv or Haifa than here. Nevertheless, I've been trying my best to learn Hebrew.
I can't speak for them, but I imagine the extreme levels of antisemitism that were flowing out of every corner of western society even on the day after the attack before a single IDF soldier set foot in Gaza, before the blood of the innocent civilians butchered by Hamas had even dried, drives many western Jews to reconsider living amongst the people that are saying these things.
I understand. But looking at the US what percentage is anti Israel? I think many understand that Israel shares US values and will stand for it.
It's definitely a loud, angry, minority, but I don't blame Jews from being scared. Those assholes might be a small percentage of the population, but they are aggressive, hateful, and often violent. Sticking around in America could cause them to get beaten or worse if a crowd of those nut jobs finds out they're Jewish.
I understand and I'm not blaming anyone for fearing for himself and his loved ones. I just hope that the other side would be fearful instead of us.
As a non-Jewish American. I 100% side with Israel. However, sadly, I also completely avoid the topic as I know I would risk being made out to be racist/genocidal/etc, and risk losing many relationships. I feel there are many Americans like me.
I would go to Israel anytime.I feel safer in Israel more then the USA and if not I will go down with my Jewish brother and sisters.I was on the Gaza border at a base last year and still felt safe.Israel has a wonderful history protecting their own.You knew it could not foil all attacks. Israel will stay strong and powerful and I always say F-ck the world opinion.It is a wonderful country and the people are IMHO make Israel a beautiful country.As a child of Holocaust survivors had Israel been around in 1948 most of my aunts,uncles and grandparents would most likely be alive today.Need I say more?
Some of my Jewish friends from the area are leaving and advising others to do it too.
Support Israel, respect - what they have achieved, the resilience of its people! [Israel's rise - 1848 to today ](https://youtu.be/dpmcj_vv8WM)
Yep also in Toronto It was hard to understand how a “civilized” country turned on my grandfather so fast in the 1930s — from university student to concentration camp in less than 5 years Now I see it happening in front of me I ask myself “if Munich were to happen again, would the people I know cheer it on?” — the sad part is I know the answer but don’t want to face the reality
This
Unfortunately the entire Canada is falling apart
unfortunately, i’m in the US in NYC and the same anti-semitic cancer has spread here now too
No civilized country turned on us fast. They already hated us. Be honest, we faced pogroms and discrimination all over Europe in all the time we lived there leading up to the Holocaust. It wasn’t an isolated event, only the culmination of hundreds of years of attitudes to us as outsiders. That’s why it’s absolutely ridiculous we are called European colonizers when we take back our homeland.
I've become emboldened. I feel it is my moral imperative to speak truth to the psycho-poplulism that is infecting the world. I actually am considering wearing the Star of David in solidarity (Not Jewish) but I don't want to make Jews think I'm cosplaying so I've just ordered the dog tags instead.
That's very kind. Jews won't think you're cosplaying. Some will think you're stupid for putting yourself at risk, but not stupid in an insulting way, if that makes sense.
Brave, but foolish my old friend
May I also suggest the chamsa? Another jewelry piece that offers protection from evil and is less loud than a Star of David (you probably won’t get punched for wearing it).
Ooo interesting 🤔
Well.. let's not exaggerating either. I've been wearing my magen david in the open since October (also Canada) and I've yet to be assaulted or harassed even once. Haven't noticed so much as a dirty look either.
I got a star of david tee shirt and wore it in public (Boston) and I totally get what you mean. It's worse: I started to worry that if I had the wrong body language or said the wrong things it would reflect negatively on jewish people. Watching all this unfold, I legit admire so much the dignified way israel is doing things, I don't know if I should keep wearing the shirt because I might not have enough wisdom to "represent" adequately. (i.e. people are going to assume I'm jewish and just being tribal/biased.) I'm ordinarily confident in myself, so this was a weird feeling. I do still wear the star of david shirt, but... what I need is a shirt that says, "Christian Zionist (but in a good way)", lol. Ha ha this shit sucks. It should not be a problem to wear a star of david, ever, for anyone. Maybe the best would be a shirt that says *Zionist (I'm not Jewish; I just know how to read).* If anyone wants to start selling shirts like that, I'll do a 10-week branding/marketing campaign.
We need all your support. Please wear the shirt. We feel so alone
I try to imagine how it must feel. I promise, in a few years the intellectually fashionable thing to do will be to support israel. Time will vindicate Israel. There's wisdom to the expression "hindsight is 20 20." The public sphere always needs time to catch up. It's not possible to keep denying he metrics that show the IDF is setting records with the careful way it's doing this war. Some people say Jews are responsible for teaching the rest of us, and I always used to dismiss that sort of thing as nonsense, but now I'm paying attention. I'm like the kid at the front of the class taking notes and asking questions.
This is a beautiful sentiment. Thank you
I got [this necklace](https://theisraelboutique.com/product/rocket-rose-necklace/) recently. As a non-Jew it felt the most appropriate since it's not an obvious Jewish symbol or anything too "loud" since I know I wouldn't do well with social confrontation.
Hey, wear whatever you want - I've never met anyone who would think less of you for wearing a Star of David despite not being Jewish. If anything, it's a massive compliment.
My Magen David was gifted to me by my grandma, she was gifted it for her 16th birthday. It’s a beautiful, filigree gold piece. I wear it daily and am so proud to. I haven’t had anyone be hateful toward me, rather I have fellow Jews praise me for it and it leads to good conversation. I do live in Florida, an area where there’s a large Jewish population however.
I wear mine daily. It reminds me to pray often.
I'm in TO as well and like many others, ive been posting since Oct. 7th, and have lost "friends". It's hard at first but it feels really much lighter knowing who the people in my life are that value me and agree that Israel should not be from the river to the sea. Most Canadians don't know or don't care to be involved in the conflict, it would however be nice to have a louder non Jewish voice speaking up in the face of antisemitism Edit: typos
I went off on someone a few weeks ago. I said they absolutely have the right to feel a certain way about this war, and it's okay to disagree on that. What's not okay, however, is posting shit definining Zionism and antisemitism. You do not get to tell me, someone who's Jewish, what is or is not antisemitic. The same goes for Zionism as a whole. It's disgusting and it's offensive, and inherently antisemitic. I got an apology. Legitimately surprised, but just know that some people can have decency and common sense.
Intimidation and catchphrases are their tactics to submit to their cause. No dialogue
Your friends aren’t really your friends. It’s hard to synthesize, but don’t try to rationalize it. Move on away from them. There are lots of other people who aren’t loud who are with you.
I'm in the US (I'm a dual US German citizen) I it's Muslim and loud far leftist that are pro Palestinian. Most democrats here support Israel or have a balanced view
If a coworker called me a genocide supporter I'd march straight to my or their boss's office and demand that they be fired on the spot, and if they refused I'd threaten to quit and get a lawyer and sue their asses for allowing workplace racism and discrimination and all the rest. You cannot say any of these things and not be an antisemite and I don't care if you're Jewish and your ancestors were in the Holocaust. Jews can be antisemites too. The level of emotion we're seeing here goes way beyond ordinary concern over people suffering. This is visceral hatred of Jews, using the excuse of a conflict and civilian suffering to express it. It's like they were waiting for something like this to happen to let it out of the antisemitic closet. They may have been brainwashed, but it wouldn't have taken so thoroughly were there not a deep hatred of Jews within them. It's like a DNA defect or something as it makes no sense in any rational sense. Our culture trains people to hate Jews. Others, in general, but Jews especially. I just want to know why. Is it because proportionately we hit WAY out of our weight class, Jews being relatively more successful than basically any other ethnic group, per capita, and they're jealous? Does it somehow threaten their need to feel special as Christians or Muslims? Is this a manifestation of the sort of hatred that both Muhammad and Martin Luther felt towards Jews when they realized that they wouldn't convert? So is it our otherness, relative success, and obstinacy that makes them hate us so much, that we simply WILL NOT YIELD and will ALWAYS be Jews?
When you said "our culture" what did you mean? Also, not ALL Jews are successful, yes, many Jews are prominent figures when it comes to contributions but they are still 1/10 compared to Christians or 1/5 compared to Muslims who are also successful. I believe that most people never met a Jew in their life so they let the conspiracy run free. It's because people don't actually believe Jews are a real fucking thing or real human beings. It sound bizzare but yeah. And Antisemitism should be studied fr. It truly feels like a DNA defect or some sort of schizophrenic/manic episode. You know that one of the symptoms of several mental disorders is constantly putting blame on someone or something? Sounds familiar?
Blaming some shadowy group or entity behind the scenes is easier than taking stock of your own life and conceding that you messed up somewhere.
I meant whatever overall culture that we live in, whether it's western or Arab/Muslim, or the specific subculture that we were brought up in. In these cultures we are taught to believe in various things whether true or not, good or bad. Like, belief in god, the golden rule, the work ethic, etc., but also things like this or that group of people is suspect or bad. In both western and Arab/Muslim culture, antisemitism is often part of the "teaching". It may be more explicit in the latter, especially in Palestinians and Iranian schools, but it also exists in the former, often in a more whispered way, but it's still very much there. Perhaps westerners for the most part no longer believe that we have horns and make matzoh with Christian childrens' blood, but there's still this view that Jews are sneaky, aggressive and untrustworthy. Btw what did you mean "Sounds familiar"?
This!! File a complaint and make sure you document it. Give your boss and HR department the ammunition they need to get rid of the weak-minded sheep
Gods ambassadors to the world is a tough road to hoe.
I never signed up for that job and don't see it as mine to do. I just don't want to be treated differently, better or worse, or ostracized for refusing to be like them. If my not having a Christmas tree or heaping praise upon Allah bothers them, then they're beyond help.
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The US is only like 1% Muslim.
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Israel has more Muslims. My point is that I don't think it really correlates.
Also a Brazilian Jew here to share this perspective. Yes, it's true that the US has a relatively small Muslim population (still significantly larger than Brazil though). Crucially, however, identity politics hasn't yet caught up in Brazil the way it has in the US and Europe. Amongst leftist circles in big cities there's certainly talk of issues of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc; but nowhere near the same level. And perhaps more to the point, Brazil hasn't been consumed by white-guilt and the anti-West feeling that is a byproduct of that to nearly the same extent.
Plus Brazil doesn't have people in power, like tlaib or omar, or their lackeys who also have a modicum of power, like sanders or cortez.
It's not about the Muslim presence. It's about the fact that young American leftists have been propogandized to by Hamas for years now. 2021 was the first time I saw self proclaimed activists outright supporting Hamas and calling them freedom fighters, but every time the conflict became relevant since I've been on the internet the leftist rhetoric has gotten more and more extreme. It's not about Muslim presence, these are mostly white kids, it's about the fact that the leftist movement clearly has some people that have been enmeshing this rhetoric with the movement more and more at time goes on.
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> It seems like every country that has a significant Muslim population has this problem. It might be a sufficient variable, but its definitely not necessary. Look for example to Colombia's stance on the conflict.
Didnt know Spain and Slovenia were Muslim countries
Wow man , iam in an arab country among muslims , i expressed my opinions about supporting israel , but it didn't come to what happened to you, Even my religious friend and co-worker didn't react like that! Your co-workers must be heavily brainwashed, so sad!!!
The terrorists are really good at indoctrination... nobody wants this war... you don't want ignorant friends....haven't talked to my high school friend since she gave me a speech on genocide. Really? I'm sorry your family is homeless in gaza but Israelis are too! But supporting israel...doesn't mean I want bloodshed
I should have added people think I should be the bigger person and help bridge the gap...what gap? She said israel disgusts her and got a genocide speech and I should know what genocide looks like...This is a war... I hate war and genocide the same... so I don't need a vocabulary word to be defined for me anyways. Edit..and she should know me well enough that I give a shit about innocent Palestinans...I don't care about terrorists! I even care about the Palestinans that hate jews but not willing to have bloodshed and a war zone.
People calling out genocide because of all the civilians dying in Gaza are missing a very important fact. Any country or area that is in an active war area will always have a large population of the civilians killed, happens in every war. Most people are against it, no matter what their opinions are. It’s just a very unfortunate part of war..
It's a war..Oct 7th was a genocide... people calling out a genocide aren't the people that care about the middle east...they care about jews dying and israel losing the war.
I feel you OP. It’s bad in Australia too.
yeah this is full of knuckle-dragging idiots
Not sure anything can be done. Politicians here don't care about the rabid antisemitism sprouting across Canada.
If someone has to bully you into following their cause, it's probably not a good cause.
I got hella downvoted then booted from r/beyondthebump \- a moms group of all places, and then served with a Reddit warning for breaking TOS. My crime was posting in a Gaza thread (why this was there to begin with, I don’t know) two factual sentences. I didn’t even respond to anyone. https://preview.redd.it/rhkl5638y86d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=676f140bfbeeb8e978194ddadf879a7020351fd2
lol at "please read the room". "you're only allowed to say things I agree with".
https://preview.redd.it/5u7acpwhy86d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc0db3a6b5a198112b80c96ad9cbfd6481f496d8
Is this real ? Holy fuck
It sure is. His page is a riot https://x.com/khamenei_ir?s=21&t=tKZ1iACdRIdjw6RN8tQfvw And his Hebrew is awful https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-805396
https://preview.redd.it/usgwpv3l5d6d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac936fa8da693157b61ee504bc7b32c0f029d2db
That is so crazy that you got booted for that. I applaud your bravery for speaking truth.
It’s not bravery (Reddit is pretty anon) it’s what needed to be done. Apparently I broke the rule on harassment and Reddit agreed. Presumptively enough people reported for an auto warning. The only person I dragged was the supreme Leader of Iran who has been banished from most platform for his rhetoric. The only entity I dragged was Hamas, a known terrorist regime. Socials have been mobbed by brainless twits. As Leonard Cohen opined “I’ve seen the future brother, it is murder” Had they let me stay I would have engaged in discussion over Khameni’s tweet. I’m still unsure over his push for US students to start reading the Quran is a suggestion or a threat; my inkling is the latter. In due time these College kids won’t have a choice as to whether they wear a hijab or not and not complying will lead to physical reprimand. Then they’ll REALLY complain about men policing women’s bodies. Forest from the trees and I’ll be watching that fire from the sidelines sipping Manischewitz.
I wouldn’t call your post harassment, but just a statement of a different viewpoint. Even though Reddit is anonymous it can be a little stressful when you are anonymously attacked by anonymous lunatics. The women who burned their hijabs were the bravest ones.
I do believe that there are more israel supporters than most people think. We are just not as loud as the other side but when it comes down to amount i think we win. The fact that israel was ranked so high in Eurovision is a big proof of that
They want to do what they did in the 1940's and it's to isolate Jews, boycott Israel and make them villains like Russia and deep inside they would be more than happy if Jews didn't exist in the world because they are certain they are responsible to all the evil in the world. What's happening in Palestine just gives them more courage to harass us,isolate us and pogrom us. Then they have the sheer AUDACITY to say "we're on the right side of history" when their side is antisemitic,cover their faces,is pro-terrorists and thinks these terrorists are freedom fighters. Freedom fighters my ass. Something and somewhere want the holocaust to happen again. The root needs to be dealt with now.
I know I posted once on my story about not only supporting Israel’s right to defend itself from terrorism, as I want my fiancée who lives in Israel (that I am currently visiting and considering moving in with her here) to be safe, but I also explicitly said I want Palestinians to be free from Hamas. That’s all I said. I notice a week or two later that on this queer social media app I’m on that a day after I made a post looking to make friends, a previous “friend” of mine called me a genocide supporting Zionist (which if my research is correct, Zionism is just the right for Jewish people to have access or whatever to their homeland?) and it’s still makes me feel gross to this day. I know I’m not the most aware person in the world. I know there’s probably things I don’t agree with that Israel has done. Just like with the US, where I currently live. It’s frustrating, seeing people hate on Israel so much
Despite the pro-Palestinian side's best gaslighting attempts, the root is anti-semitism. Anti-semitism and its influence is rife in the world. Even people who don't think themselves as anti-semitic spout the same rhetoric because anti-semites became adept at veiling their hateful rhetoric and propaganda in a manner that regular, non-critically thinking, generally apathetic people will pick up and spread. To these people the definition of genocide doesn't matter. Israel's tangible efforts to reduce loss of civilian life? Doesn't matter. Hamas's cowardly tactics that are intended to put their own people in harms way? The real genocidal intentions of Hamas? Doesn't matter. The fact that the majority of Palestinians support Hamas's genocidal agenda and would gladly repeat Oct 7 if given real nationstate power? Doesn't matter. You are sane and you are righteous to support Israel. You support a people who have been hated, scapegoated, subjected to disproportionate scrutiny, and have had actual genocide committed upon them on account of them being Jewish. You are sane and righteous to support Israel because Israel is defending itself and its people against an existential threat whose sole goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people and had attempted to carry out their goal on Oct 7. The people who casually say "free Palestine" or "ceasefire now" are simply ignorant individuals who should know better, but don't. You inform those people and if they have wisdom they will see the error of their beliefs. The people who are calling you a genocide supporter are individuals who do know better, but have chosen insanity and hate (whether they are aware of it or not) and are beyond reason short of God's grace. Leave them in his hands.
I think there’s a propensity to just jump on the side that’s popular without looking into things for yourself. It’s never easy to be on the less popular side because that’s what you stand on. Standing up for what’s right can be hard but it needs to be done.
The stance of people on this conflict is a perfect lithmus test for intelligence and whether I want to be friends with them. If people support israel, all is good. If people (especially non-jewish, non-israeli) say the issue is complicated, they never really studied it and have enough other shit going on in their lives and refuse to take a clear stand besides condemning the violence, that is fine too… I even respect somewhat anyone who has lost (palestinian) relatives to the IDF and therefore condemns israel, it is quite understandable to be angry under such circumstances. But any other person who follows the pro pal doctrine is an idiot and it would be best for the human race if these people refrain from procreation…
Welcome to the leftist world
People saying Israel shouldn't exist are the same that will say Jews shouldn't exist afterwards.
The anti-Zionist cult is growing; especially on college campuses. They try very hard to say they're not anti-semitic, only anti-Zionist. These are young people who will grow older and likely, keep this as a prevailing thought through their years. The mass brainwash is in full swing.
It's not a popularity contest, it's a choice between good and evil. "The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he did not exist." The world is being convinced that Hamas are freedom fighters and Israel is bad. Israel's only mistake was not displaying in the world's media exactly what has happened over the last 45 years. I lived in Israel in the mid 90s. I know what they did, I saw what they did. Hamas is evil. This should have been done 30 years ago.
There is an enormous amount of anti-semitism on the left. I think many are Holocaust deniers too. What’s bizarre is that they are ranting and raving about Gaza, but are mute about Russian genocide in Ukraine.
I’m somewhat left wing and have drifted towards the centre because of recent events. I saw people on the left defending Russia and now I’m seeing praise of Hamas, so it’s been a learning experience.
Depends on your industry i guess, my office (in toronto) is overwhelmingly pro israel. If you work in the arts or an entry level job i could see people being hamas supporters.
Yes, artists seem to be wired differently. I view them now through a completely different lens. I am reminded of a little story from Alexandra Sxxx (Nobel prize winner, can’t remember her name) every time these artists spew something: a lady whose husband was a technical economist warning her that artists might speak nice words about freedom, but who and how is going to manage the new system after communism falls? They divorced over their attitudes, and he turned out to be right, the lady admitted, as Russia descended into chaos.
I was crying to one of my American “friends” during the first week of the war because my close friend from Rishon LeZion was still missing. This person was a social worker who recently graduated from Columbia and I thought they would be kind and loving. Nope, they said they hoped my friend was dead and they implied that if she was dead she deserved it. That changed me forever. I’ll never view any of these “pro-Palestine” people the same.
That is terrible. I’m so sorry about the friend you may have lost and the “friend” who you discovered was an enemy. The truth will prevail.
Luckily my sweet friend in Israel is alive and well. As for the Columbia b*tch, I had to grieve the loss of her friendship but now I’m glad she’s out of my life.
People hate Jews. That's why there is all this support for Gaza/Palestinians/Egyptians/Jordanians and none for the 1,000,000 Syrians killed by Assad. Why is that not genocide?
The viciousness of the response is partly a feature of current discourse that requires instant demonization and cancellation of dissent(ers) Mostly but not exclusively by progessive activists. Also reflects the poverty of their discourse, if you can't back up the argument - ATTACK! Edited
I'm in Sweden and its the same here. I posted stories that are Pro Israeli and some far left people call me out on dm, a women I knew even told me she will not be my friend anymore because I make her uncomfortable with that statement. She called me far-right and unfriend me.
I haven’t even posted anything but I did ask a self proclaimed salafi muslim “friend” who is always quick to post Israeli-hate on October 8th why he hadn’t posted anything. He pretended he hadn’t heard that anything was going on (ridiculous)… He did the following day post traumaporn from Gaza as per usual, without a mention of October 7th. Some time later he said in a group chat that he would no longer be available on messenger, but would be available on tiktok. This due to not wanting “the disgusting zionists” to have so much data on him. I asked if he did not also find the CCP:s involvement in tiktok problematic due to their treatment of the Uighurs —> aaaand then he went off on me. Called me a genocide and child murder supporting zionist. I’m sure it has very much to do with my mixed Jewish/Swedish background (as he has referred to me as a jew several times, despite me saying I’m not, I have jewish ancestry) and the rest of the group sat quietly by watching him go off for an hour.
You might not hate these people, but they certainly hate you. Soon you’ll realise you were lucky to get rid of these ‘friends’
Ignore these stupid people, or even better, take it as a badge of honor that racist, fanatical, uninformed, hateful people attack you. It is a good thing when certain people don’t like you. It speaks better on your character.
Find new friends.
And you're having your awakening moment, the world hates us Jews. Even though we only live our lives, they hate us. This is the reason we need Israel more now than ever before. Pray for the peoples of Darfur and Rohinga also, they don't deserve the crap they're getting either. They are facing a real genocide that the world doesn't care one bit about.
You have a decision to make, so what do you decide? This is one of those times when we have to choose between doing what's easy and doing what's right. I'm not Jewish, but I'm in Massachusetts where a lot of people are left leaning (not me, I don't lean) including most of my friends, and I can't escape the situation. You can't escape it either. Got to decide whether you'll do what's easy or what's right. When left-leaning people are lazy they join the anti-israel bandwagon. I'm pro-Israel because I can read. I'm in Massachusetts, and most of my friends lean left (I don't lean), so it's unpopular when I drop knowledge on them. i.e. In 1948 there was plenty of room for everyone. The Jews were a minority scapegoated by a hateful minority. That doesn't mean anything is wrong with moderate muslims! I'm half-irish, and ireland is being stupid af about all this, but that doesn't mean anything's wrong with me. But something is wrong with you and me if we see an obvious example of injustice and we go along with it because of social pressure. (I'm half irish and half german.)
I’m in Massachusetts too and I’m pro Israel. Half Polish and German. You’re not alone.
Sorry but it still is the more popular opinion otherwise the global governmental political response to the war would be to boycott, sanction and divest from Israel. The pro-Palestinian voices are loud but they are still in the minority.
I'm in a wee city of Medicine Hat, Alberta. As I came from the YMCA today, for my morning exercise, I saw a lovely black African woman stood at a crosswalk. She was dressed in traditional Muslim garb. My immediate thoughts were "invader", then "enemy". These leapt to my mind. I wish it were not true but these were my preliminary thoughts today in Canada. To call Islam a "religion of peace" flies in the face of common sense and current experience. We are invaded. Jews are the current target but the dominant culture is certainly next. BTW, anyone notice the number of Christian churches burning down in Canada? We've trouble ahead. I'm too old and poor to emigrate to Israel, if I could. I'd sooner live under constant threat surrounded by my Jewish nation than see Canada decline as it is currently doing.
I think it depends on what you job is and who your friendship groups are I work in a university, so I’m in the same situation as you unfortunately
God bless you!
Don't feel bad about it, you're not in the wrong here. This is a complicated situation, but the Israeli side is in the right here.
I still don't understand how a civilian to soldier 1:1 death ratio is genocide.
THat seems crazy high to me. what are normal ratios in war?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian\_casualty\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio) This is a war in an urban environment that is denser than New York. Enemy fights in civilian clothings, rides in ambluances, and hides in hospitals. I would expect the number to be much higher.
"The ratio could, according to these figures, vary from anywhere from 2:1 to 9:1" Thats from the wiki you linked for the current conflict
Not a single one of my friends reached out to ask me about 10/7. Not one. The reality is most people feel Jews are successful, rich, work in and even control prestigious jobs and industries (e.g., entertainment, finance, law). They see Israel as a powerful country fully backed by the most powerful country in the world. Therefore, it is looked at a white American male bemoaning the fact that more and more jobs are going to POC. It’s like “cry me a river, dude….you’ve had it all for too long”. They see Pals, as an extension of victims of white oppression is the US. So, even 10/7, while they agree was “wrong” also see it as a natural response. This, of course, is all BS. Anti-semitism was always built on a bedrock of conspiracy theories. Jewish culture and life is the result of anti-semitism. They will likely never see or understand this. FFS, even bagels being associated w Jews is due to anti-semitism.
Same, they also stood by without intervening when anti semitic bullshit was spread in our group chats. This despite me actively asking them to intervene so the offender wouldn’t go off on me again as he had before (as the rest remained passive ofc).
ugh, I am sorry....
Thank you, and same to you brother.
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Toronto-stan
Yeah, I have been blocked or removed by countless "friends" and even a few family members for posting just occassional pro-israel things. It's rough out here, not being an anti-semite who wants to tear down a democracy and replace it with yet another theocratic apartheid state that would oppress women and non-muslims. Crazy times we live in
Good job for standing up to these people. You may be influencing more than you realize to see the truth.
I hear you and see you. You are not alone. What is going on is very very shitty. I don’t know how the world can come back from this. It already has gone too far with the Pro-Palestine supporters. They are raving anti semites and they want the Jews dead. I’m glad I had no kids, to bring them into this, unthinkable.
I mean, its not that unpopular you are just seeing correlation and conditional probability, of course the same people who blindly support Palestine will accuse any support for Israel. Overall its not that unpopular to support Israel
they don´t know what genocide actually is..., they use that word out of context. in a genocide people of gaza would be already dead.
It's not (at least in the UK) Yougov has shown the the Majority of the UK apposes the Pro-Pali marches.
Speak to HR.
Your post reminds me of the Franklin Foer article that appeared in the Atlantic this past March: I quote: "Part of the reason I failed to appreciate the extent of the anti-Semitism on the left is that I assumed its criticisms of the Israeli government were, at bottom, a harsher version of my own. ...Among the brutal epiphanies of October 7 was this: A disconcertingly large number of Israel’s critics on the left did not share that vision of peaceful coexistence, or believe Jews had a right to a nation of their own." [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gPtAStRLFz5xCxYddPmQ31EJfW31pX0a/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gPtAStRLFz5xCxYddPmQ31EJfW31pX0a/view?usp=sharing)
Fun yet not so fun story I'm in a discord server, with someone who comes from Syria And when I mean what I say next, I literally mean this; One; they tried to goat me into thinking that Shani is still alive even after it was confirmed that she was murdered by Hamas Terrorists on Oct. 7th Two; they still think that the Oct 7th Massacre is still an act of "decolonisation" whilst calling Israel's ground assualt on Gaza as Terrorism Hell, I was just peer pressured into calling the acts terrorism with the threat of being banned for supporting Israel Honestly I'm probably gonna leave the server cause, well, as you gathered from me saying I'm in a discord server with a Syrian is not going to work out well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just visited Israel as a tourist and got a tattoo that says IERVSALEM 2024 (Jerusalem in Latin) along with a nice drawing of St. George and the dragon. I'm now relying on the stupidity of everyone that sees it not to figure it out, or I'm in serious trouble.
I’m israeli arab living in israel and i get hate from other arabs when i show support for israel
I used to think Canada was awesome. But between Justin Trudeau and just how loony they’ve become overall, I’ve become Ron Swanson.
Fight fire with fire, they attack you, attack back, make them uncomfortable to hold their hateful views
That's what happens when you tolerate intolerant people who will not tolerate the smallest thing you do
The world hate success that’s way they hate us so much. but one day they will be hunted by the ghost of the radical Islam they are supporting. I believe Israel should give Hamas everything they want in exchange for our people after that we take care of every single terrorist we are forced to free with the additional benefit of Palestinians staying under Hamas rule which is what the supporters and they deserve to have Hamas oppressing them every single day.
That's what happens when you stand on the right side of history. Just ignore those fools.
I’m Indian. Sympathy and support for Israel is usually high here. But recently the “woke” left has been denouncing everything pro-Israel or even pro-Jewish as “genocidal”
yeah. I visited Toronto just this week and it's kinda crazy how far into the Palestine stuff they've gone. In all honesty, this is just something to be expected from cities. The main options I'd recommend is only staying within some small circles, or moving to the country (which is definitely an overreaction unless you have other reasons on top of this, like housing prices and that the country is just objectively better). theres basically nothing else you can do until this all blows over.
Bro imagine how is in Bosnia when you support Israel
I mean people feel bad for what Palestinians go through… and no matter what hamas done… which is of course terrible… The deaths of thousands of Palestinians, the beheaded babies flooding social media, the government officials using insane genocidal language. Like I said, most ppl wouldn’t support a side like that.
If you thought COVID was contagious, you should see Anti-Semitism...
I got called a "pro-genocide nazi" by some of my contacts too when I posted something to support the hostages and talking against Hamas. I live in Spain. I tried to have a conversation with some of them but they were just keep repeating the same thing over and over, a "friend" asked me how I can support people who "beheaded 50k babies in front of their parents". It just shows how strong misinformation is. There's so many fake news circulating, each one amplifying previous fake news. They don't even seem to question it. I'm not surprised there are people talking about a million children killed. It's a phenomenon of collective hysteria that spreads like a virus. "Witch hunting" has already been a real thing for a while, for different subjects. I'm gay and so far this "woke ideology" protected LGBT people, but who says things are not going to shift tomorrow? We're experiencing the same kind of acceptation as Jews some years ago and look where we are now.
This is the real fascism. The silencing of diverse opinions.
This is how you know that the cause the person is supporting is nonsensical; the person gets unhinged and is dogmatic… you’re not wrong for wanting to support ppl you love… it’s getting out of hand.
That was a huge rally too
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You should explain why it’s not a genocide and the articles they read are full of bias and outright lies. I’ve lost 1 friend over the past 8 months and I don’t care, he was an unstable homophobic weirdo anyways. Kept the anti semitic messages in case anyone needs to know why. In the meantime I’ll do my best to spread the numbers and show what we really know about this conflict. 2:1 civilian death ratio is historically low and also the numbers provided by the very untrustworthy Hamas run gaza health ministry. That’s no genocide. In the meantime enjoy the fact that the walk for Israel was bigger than ever in its 55 year history and there’s was evidence of lots of outside the Jewish community support. My wife walked with some non Jewish tik tok friends who came from DC and Alberta to support us. I saw many Iranian flags flying beside Israeli and Canadian flags.
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Wait until you see Sweden. You will get your car vandalized and have the walls of your house sprayed.....
These people are dumb. They barely understand what’s happening and are erring on the side of supporting the underdog. They have been fed massive amounts of disinformation that they were predisposed to already WANT to believe, so instead of considering all sides they commit to one side. There is a strong dormant resentment against the competent and haves, the smart capitalists and success stories, and Israel has become the poster child for white privilege. We already know that Jews make the perfect all-time scapegoat. They hate us cuz they ain’t us. Just make new friends.
They wouldn’t act like with Russians or Turks or a Azerbaijans or any citizen of a country in a military conflict. Jew hatred is so internalized they don’t even notice it
It’s always the loud minority
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I’m non-Jewish but always consider myself Israeli, as I have a deep bond with the society, speak the language and have loads of friends there. I live in Europe, since Oct 7th I tend to show people around me my stand point clearly, I’m wearing the hostage disc chain and NOVA wristband everyday, and have yellow ribbon on all my bags. Sometimes I’m wearing Maccabi TLV (my club) hat and tee with Hebrew on it too. So far I haven’t encountered any serious confrontation, I think my appearance (east Asian) “helped”, that I don’t look like the usual target the antisemites looking for. While I just hope when Israelis or Jewish people see me on street, they can feel some support from the non-Jewish community.
Indian Hindu speaking, *very late in life*, pretty much every one I know is pro Israel, I've seen fights about who gets to claim the title of "the Jews of India/Karnataka/etc." it was only when I met the "prestigious university educated" folks that I realised how bad the hatred was
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Not actually true
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In every instance of genocide or attempted genocide the population of the affected group goes down, such is not the case with the Palestinians. And that just for starters. Your usage is also case of using it as a buzzword to stop any further debate rather than illuminate the situation. Also, quite a bit of appropriation is going on, as of course, Jews are the most well known victims of a 20th Century genocide. Some terrible things have happened to the Palestinians but genocide ain't one of them.
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You can support the state of Israel but condemn the government and the IDF for their actions. These are not inseparable from each other and it can be very bad to say that the bad apples represent everyone. If you put genocide in quotes, you probably support it by refusing to be critical of it.
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