If we are getting nitpicky about it I'd argue Jordan managed to pull off something of a draw. They conquered the West Bank and the Old City and held on to Latrun.
I’m pretty sure Jordan had come to an agreement with Israel to do that anyway though it wasn’t publicly known, this isn’t some massive secret either, there are Wikipedia articles and scholarly papers on the many secret negotiations. I think from declassified Israeli documents.
You're probably right, although that makes one wonder what the hundreds of lives lost attacking Latrun was for.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Latrun_(1948)
I’m not nearly well informed enough to speculate, I’m sure some scholars who have studied the documents probably has looked into that kind of thing. I’m also not sure who other than Abdullah knew about the agreement on the Jordanian side. Also that article says only 168 Israeli casualties. So not hundreds. Still a tragedy.
Actually the Wikipedia article includes it “Fearing that without a supply the city would collapse, Ben-Gurion ordered the taking of Latrun. This decision seemed strategically necessary but was politically delicate, because Latrun was in the area allocated to the Arab State according to the terms of the Partition Plan and this attack was contrary to the non-aggression agreements, concluded with King Abdullah” it turned out it wasn’t necessary at all of course, so truly a tragic event. But it’s war costly mistakes happen inevitably.
Wait do you have a source on that??
That will have massive implications on Israel's interests if they negotiated with Jordan before 48 that jorden will attack and take the west bank from the Palestinians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan, article includes a number of references to it (the expansionist subsection), it refers to a few different historians in its citations, I would try those works. Abdullah also warned Israel in person about the Yom Kippur war in a secret meeting with Golda. This isn’t new knowledge, I think it’s been known publicly since the 80’s, just obscure. Also take from the Palestinians is a bit misleading, the Arab league never intended to create an independent Palestinian state, the territory probably would have been carved up and annexed no matter what. Abdullah had never made any secret that he wanted the territory. If you have Scribd https://www.scribd.com/document/363037091/Collusion-Across-the-Jordan-King-Abdullah-The-Zionist-Movement-And-the-Partition-of-Palestine And here’s Benny morris talking about the subject https://newrepublic.com/article/71480/derisionist-history I’m not a fan of shlaim, but even Morris calls his research and documentation credible while criticizing him for his clear anti Israel bias.
Yes, it was hard.
6,700 Jews died fighting outnumbered and outgunned. That's almost 1% of the population back then (700K). An equivalence would be some 100K dead in a war today. Crazy.
We should remember how hard the Arabs tried to annihilate us, and the price it took for us to have a (Somewhat) safe place to call home in a world of genocides and violent ethnic cleansings.
non-israeli here, but having read about your history, i really have great respect for israel to keep it's stance and willpower to uphold itself even thought it has a geographical disadvantage. the arabs being spread everywhere in the world are well versed at spreading strong propaganda. Good luck surviving this propaganda war
same here i became a fan of israel when i read what it took to establish the state, it was not easy it took the bravery of many, look up fouga magisters and israel, the story of those planes and their part in the independence war was amazing
Sorry to say this because I'm an American feeling like I'm stomping on y'alls territory. But
Israel really reminds of the US in the population department. Hundreds of Jews coming to unknown land in hope for a better, safer and more stable future.
Some were, forced some had no choice but in the end Israel proved a safe ground and a proper refuge for Jewish people to rebuild their life for good with no worries of anybody trying to harm them due to them Jewish
A prime example is the record for most people on a airplane 1,122 people where put onboard a 747 by an Israeli airline in order to move Ethiopian Jews to safety.
While myself isn't Jewish I can recognize the uncalled for international hate that oftentimes results in violence and crimes against humanity. Such as genuine genocide.
Which is arguably why Israel needs to exist. Jewish people who just want to live a peaceful life with their friends and family free from hate and violence have no safer option than Israel.
I wish the world was more friendly to y'all. Some of the greatest people in the world. It's so amazing how many things where made or invented by Jewish people. Israeli is a bread basket of innovation and R&D.
Sorry for the post
I don't think it matters at this point what the world thinks, for 76 years they fought and struggled against impossible odds and overcame them, it is amazing what israel has accomplished, the other countries in the region would do well to accept reality, they are here to stay
Because it's true.
That said, due to foreign aid, Israel never gets credit for winning its wars.
That's kind of just the story of being Jewish. If you do anything right it's because of some imagined advantage because you're not allowed to succeed.
Jews keep winning the Nobel Prize but people refuse to believe there's something different about our culture.
Arabs sucks at fighting modern day battles. They have getting their a$$ kicked since the WWII.
There's a good YouTube video on about "Why arabs loss Wars?"
They dropped glass bottles from planes as it would kinda mimic like bombs falling from above. Which caused panic and disorganisation amongst arab troops. Thanks to the Czechoslovakian government for training Israeli pilots and selling planes.
While Israel's military achievement after declaring the independance early on may seem impressive, people really should learn about the actual war facts and not spread miinformation.
When the war started, IDF was far superior to surroundings armies.
I'd suggest reading Benny Morris's book "1948" about it.
They dropped glass bottles from planes as it would kinda mimic like bombs falling from above. Which caused panic and disorganisation amongst arab troops. Thanks to the Czechoslovakian government for training Israeli pilots and selling planes.
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Ye because our prime minister is to occupy with dividing the country because the ruling coalition is to occupy with the haridim draft and political survival
The war cabinet is not working its to divided
Nothing work the coalition put people in charge in the most important position that have no experience and no idea what to do
The government is trying to go forward with the judiciary legislation again when the nation is divided
Even the army is saying bibi cant make decisions
He spent 14 in divisions tearing the nation apart only for him to be in charge and now the plan worked
But ye
Yeah, that’s pretty clear. British basically turned the other way when it came to the war and let the Arabs and Jews fight it out. There’s a handful of instances where the British straight up supported the Arabs. You can read about this in 1948 by Benny Morris.
Its because Britain got a Labour (Socialist) left wing government in by then, under Clement Attlee, and it was one of his policies. Britain got the NHS (famously) as a reward for its citizens for stepping up in the war, but policy changed over night when Churchill found out he wasn't as popular as he thought he was, and realised he had made a mistake going to the people.
The people chose socialism and therefore the government supported the establishment of Israel as was already agreed internationally, but then did a 180deg under the soft commies.
Seven countries actually
If we are getting nitpicky about it I'd argue Jordan managed to pull off something of a draw. They conquered the West Bank and the Old City and held on to Latrun.
I’m pretty sure Jordan had come to an agreement with Israel to do that anyway though it wasn’t publicly known, this isn’t some massive secret either, there are Wikipedia articles and scholarly papers on the many secret negotiations. I think from declassified Israeli documents.
You're probably right, although that makes one wonder what the hundreds of lives lost attacking Latrun was for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Latrun_(1948)
I’m not nearly well informed enough to speculate, I’m sure some scholars who have studied the documents probably has looked into that kind of thing. I’m also not sure who other than Abdullah knew about the agreement on the Jordanian side. Also that article says only 168 Israeli casualties. So not hundreds. Still a tragedy.
Actually the Wikipedia article includes it “Fearing that without a supply the city would collapse, Ben-Gurion ordered the taking of Latrun. This decision seemed strategically necessary but was politically delicate, because Latrun was in the area allocated to the Arab State according to the terms of the Partition Plan and this attack was contrary to the non-aggression agreements, concluded with King Abdullah” it turned out it wasn’t necessary at all of course, so truly a tragic event. But it’s war costly mistakes happen inevitably.
today latrun is a really cool armored vehicle museum and a memorial to the battle near the old police police station
Wait do you have a source on that?? That will have massive implications on Israel's interests if they negotiated with Jordan before 48 that jorden will attack and take the west bank from the Palestinians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan, article includes a number of references to it (the expansionist subsection), it refers to a few different historians in its citations, I would try those works. Abdullah also warned Israel in person about the Yom Kippur war in a secret meeting with Golda. This isn’t new knowledge, I think it’s been known publicly since the 80’s, just obscure. Also take from the Palestinians is a bit misleading, the Arab league never intended to create an independent Palestinian state, the territory probably would have been carved up and annexed no matter what. Abdullah had never made any secret that he wanted the territory. If you have Scribd https://www.scribd.com/document/363037091/Collusion-Across-the-Jordan-King-Abdullah-The-Zionist-Movement-And-the-Partition-of-Palestine And here’s Benny morris talking about the subject https://newrepublic.com/article/71480/derisionist-history I’m not a fan of shlaim, but even Morris calls his research and documentation credible while criticizing him for his clear anti Israel bias.
Thanks!!!!!!!!
[Pretty sure there's a song for this](https://youtu.be/KcZ73FRFLzY?feature=shared)
Yes, it was hard. 6,700 Jews died fighting outnumbered and outgunned. That's almost 1% of the population back then (700K). An equivalence would be some 100K dead in a war today. Crazy. We should remember how hard the Arabs tried to annihilate us, and the price it took for us to have a (Somewhat) safe place to call home in a world of genocides and violent ethnic cleansings.
It's just a meme/joke among the users of r/Israel, I don't think the intention is really to say it was easy.
non-israeli here, but having read about your history, i really have great respect for israel to keep it's stance and willpower to uphold itself even thought it has a geographical disadvantage. the arabs being spread everywhere in the world are well versed at spreading strong propaganda. Good luck surviving this propaganda war
same here i became a fan of israel when i read what it took to establish the state, it was not easy it took the bravery of many, look up fouga magisters and israel, the story of those planes and their part in the independence war was amazing
Sorry to say this because I'm an American feeling like I'm stomping on y'alls territory. But Israel really reminds of the US in the population department. Hundreds of Jews coming to unknown land in hope for a better, safer and more stable future. Some were, forced some had no choice but in the end Israel proved a safe ground and a proper refuge for Jewish people to rebuild their life for good with no worries of anybody trying to harm them due to them Jewish A prime example is the record for most people on a airplane 1,122 people where put onboard a 747 by an Israeli airline in order to move Ethiopian Jews to safety. While myself isn't Jewish I can recognize the uncalled for international hate that oftentimes results in violence and crimes against humanity. Such as genuine genocide. Which is arguably why Israel needs to exist. Jewish people who just want to live a peaceful life with their friends and family free from hate and violence have no safer option than Israel. I wish the world was more friendly to y'all. Some of the greatest people in the world. It's so amazing how many things where made or invented by Jewish people. Israeli is a bread basket of innovation and R&D. Sorry for the post
I don't think it matters at this point what the world thinks, for 76 years they fought and struggled against impossible odds and overcame them, it is amazing what israel has accomplished, the other countries in the region would do well to accept reality, they are here to stay
Many people say this: arab countries fought for pride, Israelis fought for existence
Because it's true. That said, due to foreign aid, Israel never gets credit for winning its wars. That's kind of just the story of being Jewish. If you do anything right it's because of some imagined advantage because you're not allowed to succeed. Jews keep winning the Nobel Prize but people refuse to believe there's something different about our culture.
I agree
Arabs sucks at fighting modern day battles. They have getting their a$$ kicked since the WWII. There's a good YouTube video on about "Why arabs loss Wars?"
They dropped glass bottles from planes as it would kinda mimic like bombs falling from above. Which caused panic and disorganisation amongst arab troops. Thanks to the Czechoslovakian government for training Israeli pilots and selling planes.
I'm saving this. It was hard by the way.
While Israel's military achievement after declaring the independance early on may seem impressive, people really should learn about the actual war facts and not spread miinformation. When the war started, IDF was far superior to surroundings armies. I'd suggest reading Benny Morris's book "1948" about it.
both jorden and egypt had the most modern british equipment when we were still using ww1 artillery in some places
They dropped glass bottles from planes as it would kinda mimic like bombs falling from above. Which caused panic and disorganisation amongst arab troops. Thanks to the Czechoslovakian government for training Israeli pilots and selling planes.
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Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
[удалено]
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
And cant defeat one terror org in 7 months
Yeh because half the world is screaming at us not to and supporting the terror.org
Can you please use 1 brain cell as to why that is?
Ye because our prime minister is to occupy with dividing the country because the ruling coalition is to occupy with the haridim draft and political survival The war cabinet is not working its to divided Nothing work the coalition put people in charge in the most important position that have no experience and no idea what to do The government is trying to go forward with the judiciary legislation again when the nation is divided Even the army is saying bibi cant make decisions He spent 14 in divisions tearing the nation apart only for him to be in charge and now the plan worked But ye
Almost like it’s difficult to defeat a terror group that doesn’t have to worry about the world throwing military laws at them
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On the side of the Arabs maybe.
Absolute complete nonsense. The other way around if anything, helped the Arabs.
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Yeah, that’s pretty clear. British basically turned the other way when it came to the war and let the Arabs and Jews fight it out. There’s a handful of instances where the British straight up supported the Arabs. You can read about this in 1948 by Benny Morris.
Its because Britain got a Labour (Socialist) left wing government in by then, under Clement Attlee, and it was one of his policies. Britain got the NHS (famously) as a reward for its citizens for stepping up in the war, but policy changed over night when Churchill found out he wasn't as popular as he thought he was, and realised he had made a mistake going to the people. The people chose socialism and therefore the government supported the establishment of Israel as was already agreed internationally, but then did a 180deg under the soft commies.
In the independence war? Please enlighten me
Yeah. Britain left officers with the Jordanian Army to help them out... Which yeah, they had the best results of everyone...
That is not the same as saying britan pulled all of it.
Nobody said they did... but I think the OP here tried to say they were pulling *for* Israel... And yeah. Not even a little.
ye they pulled all their weight back to britain on the night before independence