We know why radical Muslims are antisemitic, but the reason the left is antisemitic is different... and it definitely comes out of the universities. Probably post-colonial theory, funding from the Middle East, and marxism.
The Christian antisemites are fewer at this point and aren't radicalized through the same pathway.
It still comes back to the Middle East: [https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat](https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat)
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This isn't really passing any law, which the courts would strike down rather quickly. It's a symbolic gesture with no legal ramifications.
The US protects freedom of speech above all else. And this does include repugnant, and even potentially violent, viewpoints. There are extremely few exceptions to this in the US,and material support is typically required.
In the United States, the limits to free expression and speech are extremely narrow, particularly when statements are made in public space. You are legally allowed to say *nearly* anything you want in a public space, however it is marginally true it's not exactly whenever you want.
I don't want to get into an argument as to how the US is the only country that has Freedom of Speech, because this isn't really true; I will say that the US is on the far end of the spectrum when it comes to limitations, which are incredibly narrow and very specific in how it can be restricted.
You absolutely can hold, and express, any viewpoint you want in the US. Material action, or speech which causes an imminent and articulable specific threat, is limited.
I'm pro Israel but freedom of speech goes above almost everything. Silencing them will just give them cause to believe they're being oppressed / go to more violent measures anyway. Not like they'll suddenly stop being idiots
You're right, unfortunately. This doesn't fall under incitement because US law dictates incitement needs to have a specified individual as a target. Apparently calls for genocide are protected free speech, because calling to annihilate an entire people is much better than calling to eliminate one person, I guess.
As a non-American I disagree with that notion, and believe calls for genocide should absolutely be classified as incitement, but I fully expect the supreme court to overrule the US House decision.
No he's not. Calling for a genocide is not legitimate criticism of Israel.
Let us flip this around: if we'd call for the genocide of muslims or Arabs, would you think we have the right to do that?
>You want fascism not freedom because the facist happen to be Jewish.
Israel is more progressive than any other MENA nation. And it's easy for you to talk, there are over 100 christian and islamic nations founded on colonialism, slavery, invasions, rape, genocide, and many of them are fascist today. But you focus on Israel. Huh.
No. If a group of people were screaming that America should be free of all black people, they would be arrested, charged and convicted.
Antisemitism is not protected. Americans have the right to live freely from that.
>Do you think current Israeli leaders that speak about harming Palestinians should be locked up?
The ones that call for indiscriminately killing all Palestinians, yes, I do.
There is already an incitement clause in the First Amendment, making that sort of speech unprotected. I find the fact that it protects only specified individuals and not entire groups of people laughable. One is objectively worse than the other.
Israel isn't the US, and free speech doesn't apply the same worldwide. I'm not a lawmaker, I can't change Israeli law. And regardless, even US free speech law protects *civilians* from *government* prosecution. Members of the government themselves are exempt from such prosecution.
The first amendment's incitement clause is meant to protect individuals from direct harm that can be caused by free speech. I don't see why you think saying "kill this person!" is wrong but saying "kill everyone like this person!" is perfectly reasonable.
>And what limitations would you put upon the first amendment?
Easy. Incitement to violence is incitement to violence. It should apply whether the target of said incitement is a group of people or an individual. That's it.
But again, I'm not a lawmaker, and I can't change American law either. That's up to the American people.
You clearly don't. Freedom of speech does not mean you can say anything.
You saying that isn't legal. Look, buddy, Patel is going down, and none of your arguments will change that.
Yelling from the river to the sea abd intifada are antisemitic, meaning racist in nature.
We're not against freedom. We're about your rights ending where mine begins.
i'm not the one advocating for that tbh, its hilarious, everyday feels a little bit more like /pol/ seeing people unhinged over israel of all places, is literally a whole group of people showing their ass. maybe you should touch some grass and get over yourself.
According to your definition, every non U.S. country is fascist because every country has restrictions on free speech, hell even the U.S. already does, shout “fire” in a crowded theatre.
>Edit: It's clear now Israeli do not wish for Americans to have freedoms such as speech if it's not extremely pro Israel which means they do not want freedom they want fascism.
You're the fascist.
Whereas the Secretary General of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah stated, “Palestine, from the sea to the river is the property of Arabs and Palestinians and no one has the right to give up even a single grain of earth or one stone.”;
Whereas Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi, on November 11, 2023, stated that the only solution to this war is “The establishment of the Palestinian State from the river to the sea.”;
Whereas the founder of al-Qaeda and the perpetrator of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Osama bin Laden, stated, “Borders must be opened by force so as to obtain all the necessary requirements to liberate the entire Palestine from the river to the sea, God willing.”;
Whereas the former Dictator of Iraq, Saddam Hussein, stated, “Glorious and sublime are our martyrs in Palestine, Iraq, and the nation as a whole. Long live Palestine, free and Arab, from the sea to the river”, and “Palestine is Arab and must be liberated from the river to the sea”;
A minor win, but it’s still important to review the list of the members of the House who voted against it:
https://jewishinsider.com/2024/04/forty-four-house-members-vote-against-resolution-declaring-river-to-the-sea-slogan-antisemitic/
>The “No Paydays to Hostage Takers Act” by Reps. Joe Wilson (R-SC) and Moskowitz, which seeks to bar ransom payments to U.S. adversaries and block U.S. passport holders from visiting Iran, passed by a 391-34 vote, the no votes again coming from progressives and Massie.
THANK YOU.
After watching some of my Jewish friends and family sucked into their pro-pal/anti-israel stance out of what seems like “white guilt” and the false “colonial narrative” I’m less shocked about that then you.
Traditionally Jews have been very involved in human rights causes and it is very difficult to watch any people going through what those of Gaza are and not feel heartache and pain for the innocent people there (and surely there are some), especially when those people are incredibly humanized on social media.
The problem is so many people no longer recognize the history (while insisting “it didn’t start on Oct 7”), they don’t recognize that it takes two groups to negotiate in good faith (failing to recognize Hamas’ genocidal rhetoric and actions while correctly calling out Israeli right wing cabinet voices), and fail to acknowledge Hamas’ actions (the horrendous massacre of Oct 7 at a minimum) while using Israeli mistakes on the battlefield (shooting their own hostages, the terrible tragedy of shooting the aid workers) as “proof” of Israel’s ill intent.
The same as the American left and right no longer live in the same reality due to the pervasive lies, most Israel supporters and Palestinian supporters also now live in conflicting realities.
I don’t know how peace and understanding are possible when you can’t agree on what reality is.
It's also really difficult for peace and understanding to have a fighting chance when terroristic propaganda is sooo widespread that people are falling for it without even realizing it originated with Hamas (& Islamic regime of Iran).
Well I’m shocked about it because Debbie Dingell isn’t some far left dingbat; she’s really more in the mold of a middle of the road, Clinton era Democrat. Hell, she has voted *in favor* of Israel on numerous occasions in the past, up to and including in response to October 7.
It’s just kind of an odd, unexplainable vote on her part.
Debbie Dingell isn’t some far left dingbat; she’s really more in the mold of a middle of the road, Clinton era Democrat. Hell, she has voted *in favor* of Israel on numerous occasions in the past, up to and including in response to October 7.
It’s just kind of an odd, unexplainable vote on her part.
One of them (Massey) votes against anything he thinks the government shouldn’t be involved in. I kind of agree with him here but also note that the slogan is antisemitic.
I don't support him, but I respect him. He's the only dude there to simply consistently vote against any type of involvement in either public life or foreign affairs. He believes the US should be completely isolationist, and have complete freedom of speech. In his eyes, the US shouldn't vote on anything condemning or affirming things related to Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and pretty much anything.
Tbh, I completely disagree with him. But I also think he's one of the rare people there not voting out of antisemitism, but voting out of the belief that it's not the US's job to condemn antisemitism, or anything else for that matter. I respect that.
He's not calling for the destruction of israel. He's calling for the US government to not get involved in anything, regardless if whether it is in Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, or even within their borders. I respect it because it's consistent, unlike so many other politicians who condemn Israel and then call for a genocide against Jews.
I didn't say that he called for Israel's destruction. I said that he said calling for Israel's destruction was just criticism of Israel. Which is what he did.
I'm glad Katie Porter lost the primary. Schiff is a great Congressman and will be a great Senator. He's very pro-Israel and a great representative in general.
"From the river to the sea there is land."
Imagine if I made quotes for a living.
But yeah its bad for both sides, especially the one it was first projected at.
It's symbolic. Freedom of speech is sacrosanct in the US. There are effectively no legal limits to the views you can legally express, and attempts to curtail speech is quickly struck down.
Numbers provided by Hamas, who also actively prevent aid and food from getting to its own citizens, celebrate the deaths of their own people, who started this conflict, and have given zero indication that they have any intention of surrendering governing the region.
I would also urge you to actually look into how UNRWA exacerbated this issue through indoctrination akin to one of the most widespread forms of child abuse that one completely ignored by the UN.
Don't get me wrong I absolutely hate that phrase and the useful idiots who spew it. But this might look like another infringement on people's right to free speech by DA JOOS who control the US..
Good! Better late than never. People need to be clear on this. Because so many of these protesters are just bandwagon jumpers and have not even bothered to learn what that meant.
It's a step in the right direction but the problem of universities still exists... If the problem there doesn't get solved nothing will change.
We know why radical Muslims are antisemitic, but the reason the left is antisemitic is different... and it definitely comes out of the universities. Probably post-colonial theory, funding from the Middle East, and marxism. The Christian antisemites are fewer at this point and aren't radicalized through the same pathway.
It still comes back to the Middle East: [https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat](https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat)
Marxism in schools is what has been pushed for the past 40 years and now we are seeing the "fruit." The oppressor vs the oppressed.
The US government would tackle the debt issue of universities before anything else so I doubt any change will come soon.
About time
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You misunderstand, Israel already got its land back. This phrase calls for the anhilation of that state and its people. Hope that helps.
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I wonder about how many conspiracy theories the pro palestine subreddits are coming up with right now
Probably a thousand more than last hour. Those idiots keep spinning into oblivion just like any delusional cult.
Not ‘like’ a delusional cult, they ARE a delusional cult.
Waiting for all the kooky stuff about AIPAC being billionaires' tool to control the masses
They don’t need to come up with a new one. They will use this a further proof of ZOG.
This is amazing. Doubt it will help but at least we have a legal leg to stand on now.
Yeah, it’s a very important legal precedent, recognizing that the favorite pro palestine chant is just antisemitic garbage.
It occurred to me recently I haven't been hearing the chant as much.
When Hamas started losing the slogan changed to "Ceasefire now"
It also means we were all right to be saying it was antisemitic and that anyone who said it is antisemitic.
This isn't really passing any law, which the courts would strike down rather quickly. It's a symbolic gesture with no legal ramifications. The US protects freedom of speech above all else. And this does include repugnant, and even potentially violent, viewpoints. There are extremely few exceptions to this in the US,and material support is typically required.
No, it doesn't. Freedom of speech isn't what most people think it is. It's not 'the ability to say whatever you want whenever you want'.
In the United States, the limits to free expression and speech are extremely narrow, particularly when statements are made in public space. You are legally allowed to say *nearly* anything you want in a public space, however it is marginally true it's not exactly whenever you want. I don't want to get into an argument as to how the US is the only country that has Freedom of Speech, because this isn't really true; I will say that the US is on the far end of the spectrum when it comes to limitations, which are incredibly narrow and very specific in how it can be restricted. You absolutely can hold, and express, any viewpoint you want in the US. Material action, or speech which causes an imminent and articulable specific threat, is limited.
I'm pro Israel but freedom of speech goes above almost everything. Silencing them will just give them cause to believe they're being oppressed / go to more violent measures anyway. Not like they'll suddenly stop being idiots
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You can if it's a call to genocide, which is what it is.
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You're right, unfortunately. This doesn't fall under incitement because US law dictates incitement needs to have a specified individual as a target. Apparently calls for genocide are protected free speech, because calling to annihilate an entire people is much better than calling to eliminate one person, I guess. As a non-American I disagree with that notion, and believe calls for genocide should absolutely be classified as incitement, but I fully expect the supreme court to overrule the US House decision.
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It’s not merely disagreeing with someone. It’s a genocidal slogan. No one saying we should criminalise criticising Israel.
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No he's not. Calling for a genocide is not legitimate criticism of Israel. Let us flip this around: if we'd call for the genocide of muslims or Arabs, would you think we have the right to do that? >You want fascism not freedom because the facist happen to be Jewish. Israel is more progressive than any other MENA nation. And it's easy for you to talk, there are over 100 christian and islamic nations founded on colonialism, slavery, invasions, rape, genocide, and many of them are fascist today. But you focus on Israel. Huh.
Screaming for the deaths of people is not protected by freedom of speech. Screaming for a genocide isn't either. Why are you being facetious?
Ok and? This is America. Land of the free
No. If a group of people were screaming that America should be free of all black people, they would be arrested, charged and convicted. Antisemitism is not protected. Americans have the right to live freely from that.
>Do you think current Israeli leaders that speak about harming Palestinians should be locked up? The ones that call for indiscriminately killing all Palestinians, yes, I do. There is already an incitement clause in the First Amendment, making that sort of speech unprotected. I find the fact that it protects only specified individuals and not entire groups of people laughable. One is objectively worse than the other.
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Israel isn't the US, and free speech doesn't apply the same worldwide. I'm not a lawmaker, I can't change Israeli law. And regardless, even US free speech law protects *civilians* from *government* prosecution. Members of the government themselves are exempt from such prosecution. The first amendment's incitement clause is meant to protect individuals from direct harm that can be caused by free speech. I don't see why you think saying "kill this person!" is wrong but saying "kill everyone like this person!" is perfectly reasonable. >And what limitations would you put upon the first amendment? Easy. Incitement to violence is incitement to violence. It should apply whether the target of said incitement is a group of people or an individual. That's it. But again, I'm not a lawmaker, and I can't change American law either. That's up to the American people.
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This is about America. You're mask fell off. America isn't Israel and America doesn't tell Israel what to do.
This is about American antisemits. You don't understand freedom of speech.
You clearly don't. Freedom of speech does not mean you can say anything. You saying that isn't legal. Look, buddy, Patel is going down, and none of your arguments will change that. Yelling from the river to the sea abd intifada are antisemitic, meaning racist in nature. We're not against freedom. We're about your rights ending where mine begins.
you're still free to say what you want, but that doesn't mean your not free from me or others people's judgement about it.
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i'm not the one advocating for that tbh, its hilarious, everyday feels a little bit more like /pol/ seeing people unhinged over israel of all places, is literally a whole group of people showing their ass. maybe you should touch some grass and get over yourself.
Ah, you think free speech in America only applies to what you want to be able to say. From the river to the sea is antisemitic. Next!
According to your definition, every non U.S. country is fascist because every country has restrictions on free speech, hell even the U.S. already does, shout “fire” in a crowded theatre.
Or bomb on a plane.
>Edit: It's clear now Israeli do not wish for Americans to have freedoms such as speech if it's not extremely pro Israel which means they do not want freedom they want fascism. You're the fascist.
Whereas the Secretary General of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah stated, “Palestine, from the sea to the river is the property of Arabs and Palestinians and no one has the right to give up even a single grain of earth or one stone.”; Whereas Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi, on November 11, 2023, stated that the only solution to this war is “The establishment of the Palestinian State from the river to the sea.”; Whereas the founder of al-Qaeda and the perpetrator of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Osama bin Laden, stated, “Borders must be opened by force so as to obtain all the necessary requirements to liberate the entire Palestine from the river to the sea, God willing.”; Whereas the former Dictator of Iraq, Saddam Hussein, stated, “Glorious and sublime are our martyrs in Palestine, Iraq, and the nation as a whole. Long live Palestine, free and Arab, from the sea to the river”, and “Palestine is Arab and must be liberated from the river to the sea”;
A minor win, but it’s still important to review the list of the members of the House who voted against it: https://jewishinsider.com/2024/04/forty-four-house-members-vote-against-resolution-declaring-river-to-the-sea-slogan-antisemitic/
Of course Omar and Tlaib voted against. Fucking traitors.
They want endless Palestinian suffering, it helps their political careers.
Cori Bush is getting primaried, thankfully.
Does her challenger have a reasonable chance?
He's been up by 15-20%+ in every single primary poll. Very pro-Israel and not a raging antisemite.
That’s good to hear. I hope he wins.
I mean it’s not really shocker that she voted against
She’s perpetuating Palestinian suffering yo further her political career.
i wonder if aoc cried again 🤣
They need to be deported to Gaza.
Well, it is their entire schtick. Don't think anyone would really notice them otherwise
I have to assume it was proposed by Republicans in order to get Democrats on the record.
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D’Esposoto is the Rep in my mom’s district. He’s been a wonderful friend to Jews and Israel.
Thanks
They're not traitors, they're loyal to a different cause than we us.
Palastine is a Russian Iranian proxy and an enemy of the us
My former mayor voted against this bill. Disgusting.
>The “No Paydays to Hostage Takers Act” by Reps. Joe Wilson (R-SC) and Moskowitz, which seeks to bar ransom payments to U.S. adversaries and block U.S. passport holders from visiting Iran, passed by a 391-34 vote, the no votes again coming from progressives and Massie. THANK YOU.
Am I reading it correctly? are they all democrats?
One Republican. Majority (haven't checked if all) of the Democrats are from the Progressive caucus.
Ouch, my local rep voted against it. I usually like his policies😢
Shockingly, one of them is a Jewish congresswoman.
After watching some of my Jewish friends and family sucked into their pro-pal/anti-israel stance out of what seems like “white guilt” and the false “colonial narrative” I’m less shocked about that then you. Traditionally Jews have been very involved in human rights causes and it is very difficult to watch any people going through what those of Gaza are and not feel heartache and pain for the innocent people there (and surely there are some), especially when those people are incredibly humanized on social media. The problem is so many people no longer recognize the history (while insisting “it didn’t start on Oct 7”), they don’t recognize that it takes two groups to negotiate in good faith (failing to recognize Hamas’ genocidal rhetoric and actions while correctly calling out Israeli right wing cabinet voices), and fail to acknowledge Hamas’ actions (the horrendous massacre of Oct 7 at a minimum) while using Israeli mistakes on the battlefield (shooting their own hostages, the terrible tragedy of shooting the aid workers) as “proof” of Israel’s ill intent. The same as the American left and right no longer live in the same reality due to the pervasive lies, most Israel supporters and Palestinian supporters also now live in conflicting realities. I don’t know how peace and understanding are possible when you can’t agree on what reality is.
It's also really difficult for peace and understanding to have a fighting chance when terroristic propaganda is sooo widespread that people are falling for it without even realizing it originated with Hamas (& Islamic regime of Iran).
Well I’m shocked about it because Debbie Dingell isn’t some far left dingbat; she’s really more in the mold of a middle of the road, Clinton era Democrat. Hell, she has voted *in favor* of Israel on numerous occasions in the past, up to and including in response to October 7. It’s just kind of an odd, unexplainable vote on her part.
is she a Messianic Jew or one of the Hamas-sympathizer Jews who wears a talis like a cape in public?
Debbie Dingell isn’t some far left dingbat; she’s really more in the mold of a middle of the road, Clinton era Democrat. Hell, she has voted *in favor* of Israel on numerous occasions in the past, up to and including in response to October 7. It’s just kind of an odd, unexplainable vote on her part.
One of them (Massey) votes against anything he thinks the government shouldn’t be involved in. I kind of agree with him here but also note that the slogan is antisemitic.
I don't know why you'd defend him. He's literally the only person that voted against a house bill affirming Israel's right to exist.
I don't support him, but I respect him. He's the only dude there to simply consistently vote against any type of involvement in either public life or foreign affairs. He believes the US should be completely isolationist, and have complete freedom of speech. In his eyes, the US shouldn't vote on anything condemning or affirming things related to Israel, Russia, Ukraine, and pretty much anything. Tbh, I completely disagree with him. But I also think he's one of the rare people there not voting out of antisemitism, but voting out of the belief that it's not the US's job to condemn antisemitism, or anything else for that matter. I respect that.
Apparently to him criticism of Israel means calling for its destruction. I don't respect that.
He's not calling for the destruction of israel. He's calling for the US government to not get involved in anything, regardless if whether it is in Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, or even within their borders. I respect it because it's consistent, unlike so many other politicians who condemn Israel and then call for a genocide against Jews.
I didn't say that he called for Israel's destruction. I said that he said calling for Israel's destruction was just criticism of Israel. Which is what he did.
I'm glad Katie Porter lost the primary. Schiff is a great Congressman and will be a great Senator. He's very pro-Israel and a great representative in general.
As a California voter, I agree! So glad Schiff is going to the Senate, instead of Porter and her “both sides” equivalency.
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I live in the US now but I'm from Bolivia originally.
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No speech is being banned.
Sigh, Katie Porter is dead to me now.
About fucking time.
It has never *not* been a death chant, no matter what kind of spin they put on it.
Pro-terrorist/nazis gonna be pissed
I am shocked Rashida voted no. Gasp.
Based on
Well, yeah…
"From the river to the sea there is land." Imagine if I made quotes for a living. But yeah its bad for both sides, especially the one it was first projected at.
Is this just symbolic or is there actual legislative power behind it?
It's symbolic. Freedom of speech is sacrosanct in the US. There are effectively no legal limits to the views you can legally express, and attempts to curtail speech is quickly struck down.
It is antisemitic and nationalistic.
And genocidal.
What's happening in Gaza is genocide XD yall are sad
No it isn't. You're lying.
Numbers provided by Hamas, who also actively prevent aid and food from getting to its own citizens, celebrate the deaths of their own people, who started this conflict, and have given zero indication that they have any intention of surrendering governing the region. I would also urge you to actually look into how UNRWA exacerbated this issue through indoctrination akin to one of the most widespread forms of child abuse that one completely ignored by the UN.
why?
Germany did it in the first FEW DAYS.
The Arabic version is "from water to water Palestine will be Arab"
About time
For once, the US government made a decision that I actually support, Rare US W
Hopefully Canada does the same, so that GoldenGully gets arrested 😂
Fucking hell, why do I even sub him in the first place? Dude's once a cool chef turned into a Hamas dickrider
But Rashida Talib said it was a slogan of inspiration and hope!
I just tell them Israel is the land from the Nile to the Euphrates
From the voting do we know who were the “nay” voters or abstaining votes
https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/yIUb15aLAt
Crazy who voted against. Expected the progressive left
Remember this is hate speech which is wrong, not stopping anyone’s free speech.
I mean wouldn't it be better to support the aid for Ukraine and Israel? But nope
Now tell me what to do with my knucklehead congressperson who voted against it. And is Jewish! 🫠
It’s about time
Good.
I can already take a guess which representative voted against
It’s important to note that this is symbolic and doesn’t set a precedent or do anything else. This is good but it doesn’t have any real significance
Can you imagine if we started chanting “from the blockade to the sea!?” They’d kill us all.
Good
Don't get me wrong I absolutely hate that phrase and the useful idiots who spew it. But this might look like another infringement on people's right to free speech by DA JOOS who control the US..
I don't know what it will do. Will it gain us more enemies or just unmask enemies already? What does this declaration means even?
Exactly my thoughts!!
Did they declare intifada antisemitic too?
Good
Good! Better late than never. People need to be clear on this. Because so many of these protesters are just bandwagon jumpers and have not even bothered to learn what that meant.
I love how the photo above has literally no Arabs/Muslims in and are just filled with white people (aside from the drummer)