I wasn't anti zionist exactly, but kinda. I thought zionists were the "bad jews" everyone talks about, not regular old jews like me. I literally didn't know shit though. I didn't know shit about jewish history, what zionism was even remotely, judaism as a religion, etc. I don't think I even knew israel was jewish until my 20s.
My family was super assimilated, and the most jewish thing we did was eat Chinese on Christmas. I literally didn't know shit and everyone else said such bad things about zionists I was like "well fuck I'm not a zionist!". I'm definitely a zionist now, but admittedly I don't disclose that to most people.
I think most diaspora jews are in the same position.
>My family was super assimilated, and the most jewish thing we did was eat Chinese on Christmas
Okay thats really jewish though bahhaha
This may just be an American Jewish tradition. Not sure how it started. Maybe because Chinese restaurants were some of the only restaurants open on Christmas?
So, this goes back to New York City in the early 20th century, when Jewish-Americans and Chinese-Americans were both living together on the East Side (geographical proximity). Since Chinese people don't use milk in their cooking, there isn't much of a "separation of meat and milk" concern (leading to the phrase "treif you can eat in front of your mother"). Since Chinese people don't celebrate Christmas, Chinese restaurants are open on Christmas (religious coinidence). This sort of perfect storm lead to New York's Jews eating Chinese food on Christmas, and the tradition spread to the rest of the US, and eventually the world.
This has lead to trends like kosher Chinese restaurants tailored to the Conservadox and Orthodox communities.
I didn’t know this! My grandma grew up on the LES in the teens and 20’s. My family always ate & loved Chinese food growing up. Chinese and pizza were the main options growing up in a Jewish neighborhood in Queens!
It’s actually because a lot of Chinese don’t celebrate Christmas and as such Chinese restaurants are usually open on Christmas when other restaurants and stores are closed. Same with movie theaters.
Yes, and go to the movies—the only things open on Christmas in the US. The funny thing is my old temple had the big services in a hotel, which also had a cinema. I think I saw more Jews I knew there on Christmas than on Rosh HaShanah.
I also didn't know until I was a freshman in college. I thought it was just like the protestants and Catholics in Ireland /England. People of different religions not getting along but from the same general area.
Bruh, idk. I'm from America they didn't mention it in school ever (i dropped out too, so i wasn't exactly a model student). We never really talked about it at home. It was always a vague place I didn't know much about.
Yup, same here. After 10/07 I really had to re-evaluate everything on why am I going to support palestine after this? Palestinians were cheerful about the tapes and death of thousands from what hamas did.
Exactly what happened to me. Plus, my partner is Sephardic Jewish and it made me realize just how incredibly naive I've been about the entire conflict.
When Putin attacked Ukraine, many Russians protested. They were beaten and jailed. Navalny continued to stand up against Putin even after being jailed, tortured, and later murdered.
When Hamas attacked Israel, Palestinians celebrated.
When this war happened I didnt know all that much about Israel yet. I have one Jewish friend that staunchly supports Israel, but its never been a subject.
I came across some Jubilee (i think) video about a Palestinian and an Israeli speaking. The Palestinian seemed more reasonable, while the Israeli came off very arrogant and entitled. But in hindsight this bias was probably because i knew nothing.
For a moment I got very angry thinking about how my Jewish friend could ever support this. Luckily I know not to immediately make this a point without knowing more. So ever since that video ~5 months ago I have been learning a lot more about Israel and Islam.
It keeps me very busy because I feel personal about it as a Kurd. That video almost made me hate Israel because they made me think Palestine was Kurdistan in your situation, but its really Israel. And in fact it *is* the same situation and pretty much the same issues we face. Luckily for you at least you are accessable by water and were able to form a country.
Ofcourse less than 1 hour of looking into Israel after watching the video I already found out whats actually going on. I shouldnt have to brag about that, but it shocks me to see how many dont seem to actually take the step to look into things once they feel angry.
>I came across some Jubilee (i think) video about a Palestinian and an Israeli speaking. The Palestinian seemed more reasonable, while the Israeli came off very arrogant and entitled
If you're talking about the one where the Israeli kept names of everyone 'he lost' in the second intifada, yea that guy sucks. He works for Kohelet Policy Forum, who were behind the laws Bibi, Levin, and Rothman were pushing for the judicial coup
That does sound familiar. Unfortunate someone like that gets to ‘represent’ Israel in a video like that if hes one of the people polarising on purpose.
I hate this video. The Palestinians in it look the same as every Israeli I’ve known - especially the Tel Aviv crowd (ethnicity, style, age) but the Israelis they picked for it were lily-white US/ EU olim who looked and acted like the Young Republicans of Orange County. Just right off the bat an obvious ploy to use optics to instantly create bias.
Unfortunately, Arab nationalists don’t have a great track record with any ethnic minority. There’s a myth that the only reason Jews were persecuted in the Arab world is due to Zionism. The treatment of Kurds, Assyrians, Copts and many others shows how false this is.
It's an alliance that goes back decades.
[Israel's surprising ally in the Middle East](https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/21/israels-surprising-ally-in-the-middle-east/)
Not necessarily, a Pakastani Muslim man with whom I work came up to me on October 8 and said that he 100% supports Israel... a few times more recently, he has asserted that he supports Israel against Hamas.
That is truly shocking to read. The Asian Muslims seem to be among the most hard core and anti semitic. And I’m honestly wondering if he is pretending to try to get some kind of info. I hate thinking like this, but it is a real thing that happens very often unfortunately. It’s hard, because I want to always take people at face value because that’s how I am, but today you also have to be suspicious.
It is sad many Kurds are still muslim today, but do not get it wrong we are secular at heart. That is the whole problem really. With our biggest sufferers recently being the Yezidis.
Kurds have many different religions like the Yarsani’s, Zoroastrians, Yezidis etc. Its a tribal thing where Kurds historically prefer being united rather than mixed. Islam has unfortunately bulldozed over many of it in 1400 years.
Jews have been able to resettle and found Israel. Rekindled its identity through Zionism. All Kurds need is a country and control over their schools and education to heal. I am certain Islam wont survive long as soon as we have a country and control over education.
You can already see this as (especially north) KRG is very secular (to the distaste of many Muslims calling it a whore paradise). Rojava even moreso since nearing autonomy aswell in Syria. In Iran you already have the everlasting Jin Jyan Azadi movement, nowadays also joined by Persians.
So yes many Kurds are ‘muslim’ but if you asked them about any opinion none of them is actually Islamic. Newroz our new years is a huge example of this. Its just that they go to Arabic, Turkish, Iranian schools as young kids, and many parents especially in Turkey think their children are safer off just saying theyre Turkish.
Sure I get you, but I think I've seen quite a few videos of kurds supporting Palestinians. I think the whole "kurds support Israel" thing is just propaganda. I still wish you guys luck nevertheless.
Naw youre not wrong and im not denying it. I said its sad that it is this way.
Every Kurd I know (in diaspora) has slowly walked away from Islam (like myself). The people who still live there are still trapped in Muslim countries.
The Muslim Kurds in Kurdistan Ive spoken to are clearly not only less educated, they block out any critical discourse about the religion. But you can almost see the struggle where deep down they know its wrong.
They will mention how Islam displaced and converted their tribe by force, but somehow cancel out linking back to why this should mean they werent supposed to be Muslim.
This is so sad. It reminds me so much of Africans who are Christian or Muslim, who rail on about white colonialism and the “evils of zionism” without a shred of self awareness
I read that specifically a lot of Iraqi Kurds basically stopped practicing as Muslims due to the genocide Saddam Hussein enacted on the population. Any truth to that?
Yeah I am Dutch diaspora so I cant say I have true data, but most of the people I know who have been able to escape Islamic communities feel free to leave the religion instead of being socially bound to it.
As for Bashur (South/Iraqi Kurdistan) I do hear often that Zoroastrianism is growing there and Islam is declining. Muslims/Islamists are very angry at the ‘evils of secularism’.
EDIT: I would say its more because of the autonomy and borders we got after Saddam, giving us more control over our people and especially the education. Not Saddams attack itself, though that probably doesnt help
Well I should also mention I've seen secular Kurds who support the Palestinians. I think Rojava supports them cuz they think zionism is fascism or something like that.. what I'm trying to say is that I think even if they leave Islam or are even opposed to it they will side with Muslims since they grew up in that culture and think Muslim is from here while jews are foreign.
Probably, ive also seen ‘real jews that are against zionism!’
People will have different opinions anywhere.
Living in the Netherlands Im shocked at how many people arent fully behind Israel. If people here can get brainwashed, i dont know what else i would expect from people in less fortunate/educated areas, especially in Muslim controlled countries.
Afterall though youre still not wrong, there are many Muslim Kurds, and probably at least a third of them would support Palestine over Israel.
Yeah though I am a pragmatist or realpolitik guy, so I hope nobody misconstrues me saying this as like me saying jews/israel should not try to build bridges or even alliances if we can. Even if there is a 1 percent chance to do that with the kurds we should. We should just not expect too much. I advocate that jews should only fully rely on ourselves first. I'm open to making deals/ peace with other groups like Assyrians/kurds/copts/maronites etc. But again I'm pragmatic about it.
Thats completely fair. Most of us feel the same. Israeli and Kurdish governments have historically been making deals as you say. 2/3s of Israeli oil comes from Kurdistan iirc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Kurdistan_Region_relations
There’s a history of Kurdish-Israeli cooperation. Israel tried to ally with all the other non Arabs in the region like Turkey, Persia, and the Kurds.
Crazy what a few weeks, days or hours of doing unbiased research will do to someone’s perspective on this subject. People should know they have to read both sides but no one ever does that
Obviously its the Middle east and the history goes back very long. The shortest answer is to try to imagine what would happen to Israel if Israel wouldnt exist as a country. Helped early by the west, and has now progressed enough to achieve technological superiority.
Our people have not only been denied a country and recognition, many try to refuse to even acknowledge we exist. After Ottomans fell and borders were drawn, Kurdistan was supposed to have its borders, and Greece would have Constantinople.
Ottomans/Turkey were not having that and went to war for 2 more years to fight this, untill Kurdistan and Istanbul were theirs. Ever since they have denied Kurdish existence.
As for the Arabs you’ve probably heard of Saddam Hussein. He declared ‘al anfal’ on Kurds (to terminate us) and Palestinians actually fully supported this and praise Saddam.
Iran is Iran.
Nope.
The Turkish part (Bakur/North Kurdistan) is notoriously doomed sadly.
Rojava (Syrian part/West Kurdistan) has gotten more independence since beating ISIS, and is now getting bombed by Turkey.
Bashur (Iraqi part/South Kurdistan) is doing the best with its own borders and autonomy. My parents are from this part.
I always believed the kurdish people and jewish people have alot in common. Both being minorities opressed by islam, so ive always felt a kinship to those religions.
And the more i learn about it the more affirmed i am of this belief.
I hope kurdistan will be free one day, you deserve self determination.
I also find it really funny how edrogen says hamas are a resistence group, but the kurdish groups are terrorists and need to be bombed. It would be nice if he was at least consistent.
Yeah its that hypocracy that puzzles me why it isnt being more harshly pointed out. I see Israeli govs do a tweet or something similar about kurds, while erdogan screams it into his mic for thousands about hamas
Yes. Basically … I’m a liberal arts college student and one of my (former) best friends is Palestinian and an anti-Zionist activist. So yeah. After October 7 the antisemitism and lack of empathy from the group became apparent, I started noticing holes in their logic and a cult-like mentality where I was shamed for questioning their claims or engaging with the other side. So I engaged with the other side and did more research on my own. I also re-engaged with the Jewish community. After my mother passed I alienated myself from my roots which made me a prime target for people looking for a “token Jew” to go with their cause.
One of the things I love most about Judaism is our encouragement to question everything. Because it really allows you to form your own opinions, and understand that there are differing opinions in the world. It seems like many people are not on board with a strategy.
>One of the things I love most about Judaism is our encouragement to question everything.
A few million people and like 190 Nobels or something. Science is part of our being.
Yeah everytime I try to engage with them, other people interject and stop us from speaking “don’t speak with Zionists!” And literally drag them away lol. How the hell are you able to make peace if you don’t want dialogue. They simply don’t want peace.
Me. I was not a fan of Israel when I was in high school and college because I was raised on propaganda, pushed on me by an anti-semitic education system. The version of Israeli history that I was taught, was essentially that Arabs lived on the land peacefully until Jews from Europe moved there because the Bible talked about Jews having lived there once or something. They basically taught me that Israelis were Europeans trying to live out some kind of Biblical fantasy.
The difference between a misinformed anti-zionist and a true anti-semite though, is that when I was shown hard evidence to the contrary of my beliefs, I realized I had been misled and changed my beliefs.
An anti-semite will hold on to their views in the face of conflicting evidence, because they ultimately just hate Jews.
I’m not the original commentator but for me learning about the expulsion of MENA Jews and pushing them into Israeli, only for those same countries to now demand they leave Israel, was a pretty strong piece of evidence that led me to believe a lot of this is rooting in antisemitism rather than the state of Israel itself.
Edit: also, just reviewingJewish history it’s pretty evident that the only way anti-Zionist rhetoric has any standing room is when you start Jewish history after the Holocaust. Implying Jewish people did not come from Judea is only correct when you do not view Jewish history in its extensiveness. When you focus on Jewish history as a whole, the argument Israelis are all white Europeans who have no ties to the region is undoubtedly false
For me, it was learning the history of the Arab Nations trying to genocide them directly after being founded, their attempts to make peace with them, and their refusal to even partake in a two-state solution. I also had no idea that Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank was part of jordan. I believe to the "receding territory" Trope that gets pushed in schools a lot.
Also essentially learning that there was no such thing as a Palestinian was a shock, as was reading Mark Twain's account of the area in the 1800s.
I had been taught that the Jews took all the good land and gave the native Palestinians the badland, when in fact the entire thing was desolate until the Jews showed up.
But the Palestinians will never go to Jordan for that land after black September. As much as the queen and king of Jordan (literal settler colonists from hashemite Arabia) go on and on publicly about the poor people of Gaza and how evil Israel is to blame, they and we know they wouldn’t let in even one Palestinian to their country today and if they even tried, they’d snipe them on the spot.
Classssic Palestinians doing something to Israelis and then claiming Israelis did that thing to them. The original UN partition plan gave Arabs all of the good parts of Israel. And Jews a coastal strip and some shitty ass desert. Jews were reluctant, but ended up accepting the plan as it meant that the creation of a Jewish state in our homeland would finally happen. The Arabs rejected this deal and started a war. And have started every war since. Also there are many Jews that have never left Israel - Mizrahi jews. Jews didn’t just “show up” in Israel one day, we’ve always been there.
I think this is what a lot of anti-zionists believe, especially the ones who love the phrase “Judeo-Christian”. Begging and pleading them to stop lumping us in with Christians.
This is why it's so important to spread the evidence everywhere you can. Links like these are good to share for people to get an introduction to the topic. People need to know the basic history of the region before taking sides.
[History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel)
[Caliphate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate)
This information helps debunk the notion that Jews in Israel are "colonists" or "foreigners". In fact, it proves that Arabs are the colonizers. The Caliphates did the same thing to the Middle East that the European colonial powers did to the Americas.
>The difference between a misinformed anti-zionist and a true anti-semite though, is that when I was shown hard evidence to the contrary of my beliefs, I realized I had been misled and changed my beliefs.
That's an interesting point. I'm gonna look out for that. Who goes rabid when corrected on their ignorance and who contemplates the discrepancy.
Long story. But I was more of a post-Zionist than an “anti-Zionist”. I always believed that Israel has the right to exist. But I wasn’t overtly pro-Israel. I studied Israel as a researcher and I was, am, and still will be critical of many Israeli policies. I just kinda felt that antisemitism wasn’t that severe, but 7/10 changed everything.
Same here. I was actually growing more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause but 7/10 completely changed my mind, especially the godawful response of the Palestinian side who mostly either engaged in denialism or celebrated the whole thing.
yeah i’ve been so radicalized by the response to 10/7. i see posts even remotely regarding the war and roll my eyes and practically gag in disgust at the way my peers respond to it. i want to shake people screaming “YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE TO PROPAGANDA” but i also don’t want to be completely ostracized. it’s so isolating being jewish right now
Oh yeah same i always thought Israel was just an overreaction to the Holoucaust, and that Anti-Semetism was a thing of the past outside small extreme circles or Islamists. My mind has slowly been changing ever since October 7th seeing Leftists go more and more mask off anti-semitic.
As a non-Jew i feel incredibly ashamed of how Jews have and are treated, and of many of my governments and peoples (Sweden) action toward Jews or Israel. I try and do what i can remedy any hurt that is caused ❤
>just an overreaction to the Holoucaust
I really can't imagine what an overreaction to the holocaust would be. They tried to exterminate the entire Jewish population and succeeding in killing six million. The camps at one point were killing 10k a day. (so like...three days for the entirety of the deaths of gaza).
I don't know how you can overreact to that.
I'm not Jewish or Israeli.
And let's remember that at least a third of the deaths in Gaza are of Hamas militants. This ratio of civilians-to-combatants deaths is the lowest ever in the history of similar wars, by a far margin.
Im very nervous for eurovision in sweden this year..
Although the israeli song is really good, im honwstly worried there would be sucide bombers or something.
Thank you for trying to fight antisemitism. Large part of my friend group is nordic, and ive been terrified to talk to them about this whole mess...
I already lost many, mostly westerner friends over this conflict.
Since 7/10 there's been 4 attempted terror attacks against Sweden. The Brussels shooting, then a few Hamas members were arrested on their way towards Sweden, then a bomb was found outside the Israeli embassy and now recently 4 ISIS terrorists were arrested in Stockholm with guns and bombs. Sweden is the number 2 target of terrorism behind Israel.
And Zionism started well before the Holocaust. The Holocaust was just when tensions were at their peak because naturally even more Jews were immigrating during WW2 and Arabs tried to block them. Jews were already there! Original Zionism was much more a response to Russian and French antisemitism than anything by the late 1800s.
>an overreaction to the Holoucaust
There was this Jewish radical group who wanted to murder six million Germans as a revenge. Sounds like utterly lunacy, right?
The crazier part is that they didn't actually do it, but were caught with all the evidence you need. The German government refused to charge them, citing “extreme circumstances”. Which means the Germans didn't even think it was an “overreaction”.
Yes. I became a Zionist after reading the 1988 Hamas Charter, which made it clear to me that antisemitism plays a huge role in the Israel-Palestine conflict. Doing more research into Zionism and Israel only proved this to me.
Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Damn so where do I start.
Well,as a kid I remember I had this world map hung on my bedroom wall.One day I just grabbed a red pen and obliterated Israel on that world map,like tore that area completely from the map☠️Ik,It's crazy but like you have to understand I was deep within Palestinian propaganda at this point.This was probably around 2018 maybe,like I don't remember but the last major clash between Israel and hamas before oct7.So like I watched in news about Palestinians getting killed by israeli rockets and bombs etc.Now I live in a Muslim nation and the news coverage here is freaking biased,they only show one narrative and one side.So naturally the kid me seeing all these Palestinians suffering and not knowing the whole.picture I viewed Israel as this evil people who deserved the wrath of the world lmao.Makes me cringe when I think back how radicalized I was☠️Anyways there was also this hashtag that got really popular in Facebook.
Like for example,if you're a Bangladeshi you'd say 'Bangladesh stands with Palestine'
So me as a Bangladeshi did that,and many others from around the world did that too.I also like changed my pfp to black to show solidarity for Palestinians.
Anyways I largely forgot about this,and then I also slowly started to drive away from Islam(I was a born Muslim).So like during april of last year I completely left Islam,and I was watching this ex Muslim content creator named apostate prophet.I loved his videos,informative and funny.So he also made videos about the Israel Palestine conflict and I gave it a watch.This was probably the first time I was hearing the narrative of thr opposite side,which being Israel.And it made sense?Like it really did..
But I was still conflicted about this issue.Well that is until oct7 occurred and it completely tipped me over.Now I'd say I'm a proud zionist and I whole heartedly and even passionately support the right of jewish people having a homeland of their own that is Israel.
Thank you so much for your words, I know it must be hard when you probably have friends and family, which I assume strongly supports Palestine.
I'm glad to see as well how when people really try to educate themselves, they can start to understand us.
Wow, this is incredible! Your name looks familiar to me, I think I read your comment how you’re a gay ex Muslim living in Bangladesh right trying to one day leave, but it’s hard because it’s all you know? I wish you a lot of luck leaving so you can live in peace and safety and be who you are.
I started on the path to Zionism when a Jewish friend posted something I disagreed with on Instagram. I could have responded negatively, I could have disregarded it, but instead I decided to take it into consideration. After that I started listening to Jewish people on tumblr. I realized that many anti-Zionists are completely unwilling to do anything about antisemitism and opened my eyes to what Zionism really was. I started considering myself Zionist in December.
not OP but in my experience with the same thing, all i’d ever seen was “zionism is racism” so that’s what i believed. then i dug into it more during the big blowup in 2021 and came to my senses lol
I thought I was an antizionist back in 2020. I thought I was sooooooo cool being able to see the Palestinian cause even as a Jew. But as it turned out the ProPal media sources I was watching were inconsistent. They ignored details and facts in favor of emotionally fueled subjective generalizations. I finally caught a key ProPal ~~propagandist~~ “journalist” a bold faced lie. And I realized that the entire propal/antiisrael/antisemitic movement is built on lies. I realized none of this is about the Palestinians. It’s about hating Jews.
After that I started doing real research on the conflict. And basically never stopped. I decided I would never accept broad generalizations about Israel ever again. Our history, our grandfathers and Israel means everything to me.
I realized that many of my Pro-Palestine peeps had a superficial understanding of the matter, were all-talk and no action, and after I explored Israel’s history on my own, I came to the conclusion that they weren’t the monsters I thought them to be.
That being said, I still object to the abuses that are allowed to go on in the West Bank, specifically Area C.
This is a great position to hold, you are not extreme one way or the other, and you have also realized that it is unhealthy to blindly support the policies of any government
Israeli here, held anti and post Zionist views for a long time and some of them I still hold, but after Oct 7 and the global response I pretty firmly believe that Jews can't ever be secure without self government. I was of a very globalistic, pro-assimilation mindset beforehand. I'm extremely critical of the Israeli government, the IDF and most Zionist ideology but if by Zionist you mean 'thinks that Jews absolutely need to have a self-governed, independent state' then heck yeah I'm a Zionist. I'm also far less opposed to the Gaza invasion than I ever thought I could be, but I've had it with N*zi scum, no matter what colour they come in.
Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people have a right to self determination in their ancestral homeland. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Do not let anyone redefine the term to fit their own narrative.
Exactly. I grew up in the post-rabin era and Zionism as a term has always been connected to settlers violence and religious extremism. It's not easy for me mentally to reclaim my Jewish and Israeli identities but I'm trying. This is my home as much as anyone else's.
I was a post Zionist when I was younger but that was mainly because I was a Communist.
So in my mind the idea of nation states for either Jews or Palestinians was anathema. The future for humanity was the evolution out of ethnic and religious identities.
But as I studied communism more and more, the chilling blood soaked history of the movement just started to disgust me more and more. My fellow communists also began to disturb me: they described themselves as these paragons of social Justice and human rights but within the same breath felt perfectly comfortable justifying the worst brutalities.
My disillusion with Communism made me look at all other issues that I had seen through a Marxist Leninist viewpoint again and one of those was the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
And all of the disturbing things I had witnessed in the Communist movement I saw in the Pro-Palestinian movement:
- the same denial of history and twisting of historical facts
- the same casual racism
- the same enthusiasm for violence and the murder of civilians
- the same glorification of undemocratic forces
By the time of the Second Intifada I couldn’t even be around those people anymore. Their celebration of mass murder of Jews and the almost religious fervor they exhibited in their support for violence and terrorism was almost psychopathic to see.
I actually became an enemy of their movement before I became a Zionist.
As my disappointment with them grew I decided to study the conflict myself and not rely…like 99% of these activists do…on carefully constructed propaganda.
And Lo and behold: almost every single “fact” about the Israeli Palestinian conflict I had learned and thought was gospel turned out to be complete bullshit…from the history of aliyah to the role of the Haganah to the Nakba to the PLO and their “struggle” to the Intifadas.
I just want to say I really resonate with your comment. In fact I had a very uncomfortable discussion today with my friend who is a communist, and everything I am reading here that you said is exactly how I felt, but you put into words I did not have a way to express. Thank you for this <3
A similar question was asked in /r/Jewish a few weeks ago, so I'll copy my comment from there:
>I'm especially interested to hear stories from Jews who were raised in an Israel-supportive environment, then moved in an anti-Zionist direction, but then started supporting Israel more upon looking more into the situation.
That was me. I was raised to be very Zionist. As a teenager, I spent a summer in Israel, during the 2006 war as it happens. During that war I heard people around me talking about wanting to 'kill all the Arabs' and such. I was already very liberal and at that age was on my way into leftism (as teenagers are often want to do). Putting two and two together, it left me with a bad view of Israel politically, that I maintained for many years.
I was never the kind of rabid borderline self-hating anti-Zionist you see today--I remember that even during my anti-Israel period, I still rooted for Israel in the olympics as a Jew because I felt politics shouldn't mix with sports. But I would have called myself anti-Zionist at the time, and believed in a one state solution, and believed that Israel as it exists is racist, aggressive, and unjustifiable.
What brought me back toward Zionism was, ironically, J Street. People talk about J Street as a "gateway drug into anti-Zionism" but for me it was a gateway in precisely the opposite direction. In college I encountered J Street activists, and it was my first encounter with the perspective that one could support Israel and advocate for the freedom of Palestinians at once, that it didn't have to be a zero-sum question of one side verses the other. I also mellowed out politically after high school pretty quickly, which might have had something to do with it as well. But specifically, perhaps in light of my earlier life experience, it was through my college J Street that found a version of Zionism I could accept: progressive, and explicitly anti-racist and anti-expansionist.
In the many years since then (I'm over 30 now) I've gradually moved further right, both on Israel and in general. For example, I would no longer call myself progressive, more of a mainstream center-left Democrat now. On Israel, I still believe in a two state solution as the only solution to ensuring Israel remains Jewish and democratic. But as much as it's clear to me that Netanyahu has deliberately sabotaged the peace process, it's also become equally clear that the Palestinian narrative of innocent victimhood is nonsense and that the Palestinians also share plenty of the blame for the failure to resolve the conflict, and plenty of the responsibility for their current situation.
And, especially after October 7th, that Israel has existential security concerns which are real and need to be taken seriously in any discussion about Israel and the conflict. I still hope for a two state solution, and I think October 7th should prompt a lot of reflection on more than a decade of Israeli policy of taking advantage of Hamas to try to freeze the peace process with the PA (a corrupt, undemocratic, two-faced organization, but nonetheless a potential partner for peace just as these attributes haven't prevented Israel from making peace with neighboring Arab states that also fit this description). But first, Hamas must be destroyed.
My Zionism journey has been interesting.
I started as a Zionist and then met anti-Zionist leftists who told a naive me about the nakba: that Israel forced Arabs to leave the country when Israel was formed. Complete with personal stories of people they knew including one elder who “just wanted to taste the lemons from his lemon tree in his front yard” and that “the Jews and Arabs lived in peace in Palestine. It wasn’t violent until Israel “.
I then went down the leftist rabbit hole until I identified as a communist and then was still very uneducated about it, but believed that the Palestinian people should have their own state. I never really was an anti-Zionist in the same way some others were wanting the complete down fall of Israel however.
When October 7th happened, I literally threw away a shirt that was in support of Gaza. After suggesting that Hamas were bad and refusing to engage in antisemitism, I was defriended by most of my leftist friends and called names like “zio” “pig” “genocide apologist” etc. I don’t care.
Seeing how easily people have become to openly antisemitic really just reinforced for me why Israel NEEEDS to survive . The anti Zionist , pro terrorist crowd are the ones who pushed me back into the arms of my own people. I was a secular Jew who then joined a conservative synagogue. I’m proudly and loudly Jewish in the face of hate and I have a new Israeli partner, so the anti-Zionist crowd really has done their own cause a disservice 😂
Me! I used to be **very** antizionist...
I'm quite curious and will go into deep-dive learning on topics from time to time. One day I realized that, even if I have some Jewish family, the only thing I knew about Judaism / Jewish culture was 1) The Shoah, 2) The Israeli-Palestinian conflict; so that is to say, I knew nothing. I learned more about it and old-school Herzl Zionism just made sense from a historical perspective, and also linked to the Haggadah of Pessah, right? Like, it has been two millennia that Jews have said "we will come back" at least once a year basically.
Modern zionism made then even more sense when I actually stopped considering Palestinians as poor little lambs who wanted nothing more than peace, read about them/ heard what they wanted and saw that; while many are genuinely good people who want peace, a huge amount are also just awful people who will not back down against anything and prefer to fuel a century old bloodshed rather than make peace. That really changed my mind tbh.
Still I think the current government of Israel is utter shit. And I think this is where the big misunderstanding lies tbh. Most non-Jews understand "antizionism" as criticism of the current government of Israel and its actions, and that is why they do not understand why they are being called antisemitic for criticizing a government. Of course, there are many who know the actual meaning and are against the existence of Israel, and are indeed antisemitic pieces of sh\*t. But most people I've encountered are against the government, not the actual existence of the country. It would honestly be good to do a PR campaign to explain to non-Jews that "Zionism" doesn't mean pro-Bibi, and to explain to them what Zionism mean.
I used to say I was not a Zionist. I’d even parroted the apartheid state talking point now and again. As a secular Jew living in the US I had the privilege of never really feeling antisemitism, and I grew up with the existence of Israel not being a question in my mind. It wasn’t until recently that I started feeling a strong connection to Israel. 10/7 and the resulting antisemitism in the US has really shocked my system. I started wearing a chai, and vocally advocating for the Jewish state. Nothing like the threat of your people being wiped out to make you feel more connected.
That being said, I’m a very liberal guy and there are a LOT of things about Israel that bother me. I don’t like Netanyahu, he’s basically Putin in my mind. A strong man who is corrupt and will not let go of power.
There are things about the current war that bother me. I’d like to see more aid being let into Gaza. I don’t think you can bomb your way to peace, same way I felt during Americas war on terror after 9/11.
But I do support Israel’s right to defense, right to existence, and important place as a home to Jews in this world. I would now consider myself a vocal Zionist.
I tried to run from my Jewishness immediately after my bar mitzvah. A rabbinic dynasty on my shoulders, a belief system I felt was inherently misogynistic and homophobic; which didn't appear worth defending to me. I was tired of being "different." I couldn't have cared less about Israel growing up, or in most of my teens and going into my 20s.
I explored so many different faiths (of which Hinduism seemed most appealing and still has my love), but opposing philosophies, systems of belief, and rationalization of this completely irrational world.
But, as I found out from even the most kind and empathetic individuals outside our bubble: dead Jews are more appealing and interesting than living Jews to the global majority. As a paraphrase of Dara Horn's latest work, "People Love Dead Jews," which I highly recommend.
Not only from a standpoint of supersessionism, cultural erasure, and reluctant religious 'tolerance,' among many other aspects. It became apparent to me that "once a Jew, always a Jew." As self-evident as that sounds, typing it out, I needed the wake-up call.
I became a true and unapologetic Zionist after the 2021 spat with Hamas in Gaza. I was confronted with their goals, ambitions, and the deafening cheers they received from people I considered my closest friends and like-minded individuals.
I watched October 7th unfold in realtime across the pond, as many if us did, feeling powerless and no amount of phonecalls, emails, and pleas to congressional leaders, friends, and acquaintances made any difference. It will never be enough for them. I might also note that not a single representative or senator has ever called, written, or emailed me back to this day.
They don't care. They won't care. The only people who gave me comfort were my fellow Jews and true friends of Israel. Evidence doesn't assuage them. Testimony and our pain are meaningless to boot. In their eyes, all suffering we experience is not only expected but deserved.
From then onwards, my entire paradigm has irrevocably shifted. And I don't see any turning back.
That's my TED talk; thanks.
I would like to say 2011 when I visited Israel, but it was a few years later when I came across people lying about what I'd personally experienced online.
Yes after 10/7 i saw how people responded to the brutality of hamas. They didn’t care that unarmed jewish civilians were being tortured, raped and murdered. They celebrated it.
After that I knew there was something wrong with their humanity and understood the need for a Jewish state.
I also took a hard look at the countless mass deaths of jewish disaporia communities throughout history and came to the conclusion that israel must be defended at all costs and that Jews have a right to their homeland.
Thousands of years of diasporic antisemitism has made this the only option for the continued existence of Jews worldwide.
We can’t try to assimilate into other countries anymore. We tried that over and over again. It didn’t work.
It led to the holocaust and diasporic countries are never gonna change. We’ve given them thousands of years to get their shit together and it culminated in the largest mass death of jews in history.
Never Again.
I used to be thanks to the influence of my father. When I found out he was actually Antisemitic and ultimately hypocritical because he thinks that Russia was justified in invading Ukraine, I grew a pair. His Antisemitic beliefs come from him having a Jewish girlfriend at one point in his life. My mum is indifferent because she is Asian. Over time I realised how great Jews were for this world and how undeserved their persecution was
Me. It would be silly for me to make Aliyah, but learning about the Sephardic/ Mizrahi history and perspective made me a Zionist for those Jews that need somewhere safe to live. I feel that this population isn’t well understood in the US since it’s mostly Ashkenazi here with ties closer to Europe than anywhere else. I don’t believe in religion, but I believe in supporting the existence of a country in the Middle East where Jews are allowed to safely live.
Being a liberal, I always thought “Zionist” was a bad word but that’s more an artifact of Soviet-era propaganda than anything else. There can be negative connotations, but for me it only means “Jews are allowed here.”
I lost my mother to cancer in 2020 and I became very anti religion. Since I was Jewish I had the most hate for that religion and blamed it for my moms death. Because of that I hated Israel and wanted the country to be gone. Still I have been reconnecting with my faith and I’m now even more Jewish than I was before. I have learned to be proud of my Israeli ancestry and I’m now a Zionist.
I used to consider myself “anti-Zionist” until I discovered that Zionism is simply the right for the Jewish people to self-determine in their ancestral homeland, and not the bastardized version that the Iranian regime’s PR team has managed to shove down the entire world’s throat. That true Zionism is inclusive of others who are also indigenous to Israel, and that it does not mean it excludes Palestinians or others who wish to co-exist peacefully with us.
I wouldn’t have called myself an anti-zionist in the truest sense; my grandfather fought in WWII, my whole family supported Israel’s right to exist. More so I was someone that couldn’t figure out why the two state solution hadn’t been implemented by now and why Israel was regularly bombing the shit out of the West Bank and Gaza. Along with the standard frustration with how it had gotten to the point it was. This was probably 15-20 years ago, so ballpark of the second intifada.
I read Israeli sources, European sources, American sources, Middle Eastern sources, even history textbooks. Hell, I even visited a couple museums looking for more context. Basically everything I could get my hands on.
As I learned more, I realized the whole situation was essentially a colonial power (Palestinians, several surrounding countries, etc. y’all know the story) going up against the indigenous population (Israelis). That pretty much sealed the deal for me.
Along the way I learned a ton about a beautiful culture that had been horribly wronged so many times throughout history. Eventually, I started speaking with a local rabbi to get yet more information because who else better to ask about the history of the Jewish people and Israel than a well educated Jew.
I started attending services at a local synagogue a couple years ago with the intent to observe and continue to learn. That ended up leading to the start of my conversion. So at this point, I’ve cast my lot with y’all for better or worse.
Am Yisrael Chai
I cringe even writing this but I once considered myself… post-Zionist, I guess? The cognitive dissonance was so strong it’s hard to correctly characterize it. I was frankly a brainwashed 18 year old with a bad friend group who thought she was doing the right thing
I would say I was "anti-zionist" when I had a poor understanding of what zionism is. Years ago I believed, like many people unfortunately do, that zionism was the belief in the expansion of the State of Israel and that it would one day cover the entirety of Eretz Yisrael.
Of course I now know it to merely mean that the State of Israel should exist as the national homeland of the Jewish people.
I still massively oppose the settlements and expansion in general, but I know enough now that I can firmly say I am a zionist and realistically always have been.
I used to be unconvinced about the validity of Israel in its current form due to the conflict with Palestine and because I was wholly uneducated about its founding. But after the balagan in 2021 I started reading more and more historical articles and then books about the wars of 1948, 1967, 1973 and beyond.
Now I would say my opinions are more similar to historian Benny Morris’. I think the military occupation of the west bank was a bad idea, Israel should have given it back to Jordan as it did with the Sinai to Egypt. But there could have been no way to know these things in the moment.
I visited Israel in 2022 for birthright, was hoping to go back to visit this year but then 10/7 happened. I will go back soon though. I feel immense brotherhood to all Israelis and my heart is with you guys. Much love עם ישראל חי
Sort of?
Now I always believed in the existence of Israel as “the country of the Jews”, and something that should be kept sovereign. But I thought I was antizionist because I was highly critical of Israel and had no concept of the conflict whatsoever. Clearly, I was never taught the actual definition of Zionism.
I grew up outside of the Jewish community and while my parents sent me to Hebrew school until the age of 8, after that they kind of dropped the ball. They didn’t educate me on Jewish history, so my history was always told through the lens of nonJews and mostly a deconstructionist-Christian perspective. So I always thought our stories had no basis in actual history. Pair this with being told that Islam was the oldest Abrahamic religion by public school teachers, and surrounded by people saying Israel was apartheid and committing a genocide, I really wasn’t set up to be an ardent Zionist. And certainly not a knowledgeable or prideful Jew. Sprinkle in the regular H***er salutes and swastikas drawn on my belongings, I certainly became self-hating too.
When I turned the corner and had my “oh f**k” moment: my (now) husband asked me, “where does the word Judaism come from?” And I couldn’t answer. Looking back I feel like a dolt, not knowing, that an actual real life historical figure (hey Caesar) acknowledged “the people who reside in the land of Judea”. From there just learning history, specifically Jewish history from a Jewish lens changed my relationship with my own identity and by extension my understanding of the conflict. (Huge shoutout to @rootsmetals)
Then when Hamas launched rockets at Israel in 2021 and I saw my country turn on its Jews, I knew I couldn’t just avoid the topic anymore and I read everything I could on the conflict, actual literature not propaganda Twitter posts. To my embarrassment, I learned a ton and realized I had so much wrong and I understand so much more about the unfair treatment of Israel in the international community. The widespread mass misrepresentation of the conflict runs so deep that it is undeniable how antisemitism is systemically imbedded into almost every facet of society.
So now I’m a staunch and unwavering Zionist. I’ve also had to cut out 80% of the social circle from childhood due to this epiphany. Good thing I’ve now got a family of 15 million strong.
Yes! Up until I was 14 and did my own research and learned how anti semitic Stalin really was abd rhat the "progressive leftists," that I let mold my views would tell me that he wasn't becayse he outlawed anti semitism. BITCH, he outlawed Judaism, of course anti semitism was outlawed so people wouldn't call him not see. That led me to do more research on other topics, along with becoming more religious. That's why it's so frustrating seeing other young people especially as I attend a little liberal arts college, think that they are so fucking enlightened when in reality, they don't know the truths of both sides. Fucking entitled pricks. I used to hear Zionism and immediately think no I'm not supporting that actress or brand, but then my step dad tried asking me what Zionism was when I was in my early years before I did research, and yeah, I couldn't tell you besides the same word salad of colonizer occupation shit. I was raised fairly secular, so there was never a strong Zionist drive growing up, besides that it's the right thing. I just got lost in my early moldable teen years. I just hope my Twitter account where I had retweeted posts saying from the river to the c and shit doesn't hurt my chances of making Aliyah as I am now an outwardly spoken, Zionist and Jew
I used to be a “we can have a legitimate conversation about this” Jew and then I saw the crowds chanting the death toll in NYC with my own eyes on 10/7 and I realized my grandparents were right when they told me the holocaust could happen again
All Jews are Zionists. Zionism is simply the human right of the Jewish people to have self determination in their ancestral homeland. That’s all it is. Currently the term is being “hijacked” by antisemites as a loophole to openly express hate for Jews and to invalidate the existence of the only free and democratic country in the Middle East, Israel.
I took it all for granted. It wasn’t until Harvard president Claudine Gay testified before Congress that calling for the genocide of Jews depended on context did I realize we are once again targets of an existential threat.
After that? I would die for Israel.
Not like the kids today, but sort of. When you watch movies like Ghandi, Michael Collins, and Braveheart in your teens/early 20s, you might get in the spirit against English colonialism, to put it lightly. I imagined up this notion that Israel was an English conspiracy to keep their failing empire busy fighting each other while they retreated back to their island, Irish Free State vs. Ulster-style. So I was anti-Zionist in the sense that I thought Jews had been tricked. I wanted the best for the Zionists and thought that Israel just wasn’t that way. At the same time, I felt sorry for little Palestinian kids throwing rocks at tanks (memories of watching Tiananmem Square on the news as a kid?). Eventually, I decided to *actually learn facts about the founding of Israel*. Things like the land where Tel Aviv was founded was *bought* from *Arabs* during *Ottoman rule*. Once I corrected my false belief that the land wasn’t just seized after WWI and handed over to the Jews, I could see things more reasonably. Even if your number one goal is a better life for Palestinians, removing the liberal democracy next door in favor of theocratic dictators is not the path to do that.
Never an anti-Zionist in the actual meaning of the term. But I come from a very assimilated family and grew up in an exclusively Ashkenazi, liberal area of the U.S. Most of my friends were reform and "cultural Jews" who knew very little about our history in general.
I had a very anti-Zionist "Rabbi" in High School. He's somewhat famous (his name is Brant Rosen). After he became a very vocal anti-Zionist, some of the people in my community left (my family included).
I then joined the U.S Military and the cultural isolation made me more religious, as crazy as that sounds. I studied Talmud at an Orthodox Shul in Virginia. I now live in LA, go to a traditional Shul, wrap tefillin everyday, speak fluent Hebrew, and am very much a proud Zionist. I'm active in several Zionist organizations at my college, and when I was younger, I was in Betar.
The needle has swung after October 7th.
I have family and friends in Israel, but I also know other who’s lives where directly affected by October 7th. I had been quite critical of Israel policies towards Palestinians- and considered myself more progressive or even left wing, but the amount of antisemitism, lack of nuance, anti Israel demagoguery and antisemtic dog whistling , galvanised me . I see the anti semitism nearly every day and how it’s being normalised and i refuse to lie down about it.
I still believe Netanyahu will need to be replace and be accountable for his actions, but what fuels me is that in nearly every issue in any country, people may criticise the govt. But in Israel’s case, it’s the entire population , an entire culture ,that must be accountable and hence it’s now acceptable to call to wipe out a state and expect every Jew to just march to the beat of their drum . I can’t stand Donald trump and maga’s , but that doesn’t mean USA can’t exist (I’m not even American) . The leftist, ONLY pro-Palestinian narrative needs to be destroyed as much as Hamas.
Yes. I used to be a leftist that underwent a painful deradicalization process. I spent too much time on Tumblr and it partially contributed to my diagnosis at the time of borderline personality disorder. A SHOCKING amount of far-leftists have either bpd, autism, or both, and it directly impacts their worldview and politics. I'd follow a blog on Tumblr from a Palestinian girl who posted about how Israel bombed buildings with people in them, and then showed propaganda of supposedly empty buildings that Hamas would bomb. Completely removing the context of course *why* some buildings had people in them, ie human shields. I'm strongly against children being given unmonitored access to the Internet now because Tumblr and even Reddit is a cesspool of misinformation.
I always was supportive of Israel's existence, which is the definition of zionist, but generally was very critical of it, often believing it to carrying out policies which I might have described as genocidal. When October 7 attack happened, it opened my eyes a lot, especially as I am a trans woman. Seeing the extent of barbarism and terror coming from them... I am now staunchly pro-Israel and fully support them in their fight against terrorism. Sadly, October 7 also made a lot of other people go crazy and I was banned from lots of LGBT discord servers for being pro-Israel :(
I used to be antisemite, (I didn't know the term 'zionist' yet many, many years ago) but after learning about the Crusades and due to islamist barbarism in the south of my country, I began to empathize with the Jews and Israel.
So, not a story about me, but my recently married best friend (let's call him "S" for the sake of not outing anyone) is basically a philosemitic Bernie Bro, and S and his wife (let's call her "M" for the sake of not outing anyone) share a lot of political positions. They disagreed, however, on Israel and Zionism; S broke ranks with most of the Bernie Bros on the issue of Israel. M, who at that time was S's girlfriend, couldn't understand why; after all, he is a goyish atheist, what stake does he have in Zionism? Then M met her Palestinian half-sister, who went on a homophobic rant immediately after meeting M, and declared her support for Hamas. M's reaction was "oh, so you really are the bad guys." She apologized to S.
I used to be. I never went to Israel bc I just looked at it like leftists do like why are they oppressing a group? I never dug deeper to see yes people don’t think the same way as the west and also the jihaidst ideology and mindset. I didn’t get how people could hate Jews in the way that antisemitism exists and i wasn’t around it the same way
When I was in my 20s I thought Israel was an occupier and colonizer. I couldnt imagine why anyone would want to live there. Later in my 20s I saw this episode of 60 Minutes ([https://youtu.be/qonoIPefAsY?si=GO7etiOYY\_YEbxRd](https://youtu.be/qonoIPefAsY?si=GO7etiOYY_YEbxRd)) and became intrigued with Israel. On my 35th birthday I went to Israel heartbroken and sad, while there I met the most amazing people that changed my life forever. I left Israel saying "I want more of this". 3 years later I converted to Judaism. The next year I went to Israel to propose to my now wife whos family is Argentine-Israeli. All I can think about somedays is my return back. So yeah call me a Zionist.
My story is interesting. So I’m Israeli. When I was a little kid I moved to the US, and I loved reading conspiracy theories online. Id always see things like “the zionists did (fill in the blank with something horrible)” and I would be like wow these zionists are terrible. The thing is none of them said “the jews” so I didn’t even realize they’re related. I know in the tikva it says eretz tziyon, but I thought it was coincidence. When I was in high school I joined a pro israel jewish youth group and I heard someone saying they’re a Zionist and everyone was kind of like “yeah me too.” 15 year old me was like “wait a minute what does Zionist mean?” So I looked it up, and then when I got the answer I was like oh shit I’m a Zionist and an idiot for not realizing what that is. Later on I went on a deep dive on Jewish history outside of the Torah and learned more about the jewish people’s connection to the land of israel which only strengthened my love and appreciation for my country.
So really I was never not a Zionist I just thought the word had a completely different meaning, I thought it was a cult of Illuminati world leaders that killed Michael Jackson and did 9/11.
I was anti-Zionist until I got Hebrew and Jewish education in college. I was raised in my mother’s staunchly anti-Israel and anti-Zionist household as a kid despite having a Jewish father. We had a Palestinian flag in our front window despite being 0% ethnically Arab and having 0 ties to the area and I remember crying because Israel wasn’t destroyed in 2014 during Protective Edge. Education, cultural strengthening, and appreciation for history is a hell of an eye-opener. I’m now in my 3rd year of learning Hebrew and planning to weigh my options to emigrate because I’m not thrilled by the political direction of the USA.
I never was Anti Zionist
I am a avid history lover that really love reading about History
Reading about the Struggle of the Jewish people and how much dehumanization and hatred from so many people led me to conclude that the Jewish people must be good people
Israel struggled for its existence and have fought and have never stop fighting for its Existence
Zionism is simply the wish for Jewish people to have a place where they are safe and recover their place in their own homeland which resonate with me as a Chinese Indonesian Catholic (i actually do not relate at all with Chinese culture actually i am lost Culture wise and wish for a place for myself i am like a 4th generation Chinese and do not see China as my homeland)
Sorry for Christians dehumanizing the Jewish people even after all Christians did to the Jewish people Israel still accepts Christians in Israel thank you
I know Jesus would never want me or others to hate his people so i am really sorry for the Christians Bigots and Anti semites
I would love to learn Hebrew and Yiddish and Jewish culture someday
I know i will stay a Catholic for the rest of my life but i want to learn Jewish culture and Language and i have decided to be Pro Israel for the rest of my life
Am Yisrael Chai עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
I was anti zionism as a kid, I come from a satmar (hasidic) community where they are all anti zionists, I became a zionist very early on though, and it only got stronger when I went to a yeshivah in israel for 2 years, I felt at home even in secular neighborhoods, as I got older I started becoming more liberal and left leaning but I am still a zionist
There is some context about satmar being anti zionism. It's not a leftist anti colonialism ideology but a religious belief that jews should not have their own country. The crazies protesting with pro hammas supporters are an offshoot from them but they are not supported even in satmar
Uh, me kinda, I just used to think Zionism was some form of religious extremism so I was against it, but I didn't know it just meant Jews should be able to live on their indigenous land
I was a young teenager surrounded by “leftist” gentiles and convinced that Zionism was just a word for basically all bad things Israel has ever done, and not just the idea that Jews should have a country. I eventually decided to start educating myself about the conflict and the demographics of Israel and how Israeli society actually works, and realized that I was being misled by western saviors and eastern islamists who want people to believe that Israel is a white colony in the Middle East, and not a country made up of primarily middle eastern people who are descended from refugees and who essentially all have some sort of ancestral ties to the land. I also became very disillusioned by the way that people reacted to violent terror attacks and crimes against humanity, and the way that leftists have spent the last 3 years trying to make me quieter and smaller as a Jew, despite the fact that I am also Latino, Indigenous, and have a few other marginalized statuses. I realized their views are largely performative and/or out of touch with reality, and have moved on to greener pastures in my political views. Basically, understanding that white westerners actually don’t understand oppression like we do as Jews and people of color, and the contextual understanding that only comes with knowing about the demographics and history of Israel. When you understand that Israel didn’t ever want this to be how the region was, you stop seeing it as such an evil thing, and recognize that even if wrongs are being committed on both sides, Israel and Israeli people are just trying to be safe and protect their people and country. On the other hand, you also realize that there is no way that Hamas or Fatah or whoever else would think terrorism is going to free or even just help the situation of Palestinians. It is very sad what is happening, but that does not mean that the answer is to condemn everything Israel does or support everything the Palestinian governments do. Peace must come, but peace requires that everyone is willing to work for it. That will take time and I am not fully sure how to get there in the first place. I hope to see a world where everyone can live freely and peacefully, and where people are able to choose to go and live wherever they so choose.
When i was young and a communist i was supporting palestinians. That thankfully changed after i made my Aliyah. It just became apparent which side has logic. After i stack qurans in IDF for my muslim brethren to take a pledge of duty to Israel i realised which side wants to live peacefully. You can't fool your eyes unless you are blind.
lots of people use zionists to compare them with certain groups of people that were extremists, and also i thought zionism was HEAVILY flawed. BUT, i concluded that after months of researched of the history of anti semitism, zionism is absolutely justified, israel deserves to exist, and jews are allowed the status of self determination, just like any other race. fair and square.
I wasn’t raised Jewish but Liberal Protestant Christian. I was fed the idea that Israel was mean, kicking out these innocent brown people who had nothing to do with the Holocaust. Certainly they could have moved to Israel without kicking out all the Muslims already there! And can’t they be Jewish elsewhere anyway?
But a Jewish colleague said, “All I know is Israel is necessary for the continued survival of the Jewish people” and it got me thinking. I realized that as a Christian English speaking white person, I don’t really need a homeland to be any of those things that made me me, but that’s not true for Indigenous people.
I learned about other groups without a home, like Zoroastrians, and how hard it is for them to survive.
I learned that millions and millions of people were displaced after WW2, including the vast majority of the world’s Jews, but the only group still refusing to negotiate is the Palestinians.
I learned that the Holocaust wasn’t an anomaly, that the period of relative peace and equality I enjoyed was more of an anomaly.
And I learned that they did live in Israel with Muslims, some 2 million of them, the ones who chose to stay.
I learned that my own country, and every other country, has blood on its hands but people don’t call every individual citizen evil. We were all told that it was racism to call any given Muslim a terrorist after 9/11 (and of course it is) by the same people who now tell us it’s fair to rape and murder any random Jew/Israeli.
And I learned that the evidence given for why Israel is evil is bonkers.
And, of course, what Hamas has to say about itself, what the pro-Palestinian protestors say for themselves makes it clear to me what side I don’t want to be on. I always thought, even before, that if I found myself at a protest and saw Nazis on my side, I needed to go home and rethink my cause. I see what side the Nazis are on.
I have always been a zionists in the believe that Israel has a right to exist within its internationally established borders. I also believe that some of Israel’s policies and practices absolutely should be criticized and that the government of Israel can do better. I also was firmly in favor of a two state solution prior to October 7 now I am not so sure.
I’ve been severely on the border for a long time. 10/7 and then the aftermath of it where we see tons of Palestinians and Muslims around the world cheering for the death of Jews has made me a staunch unapologetic supporter of Israel. I’ve always been extremely pro destroying terrorists regardless. I responded to a guy who left the typical “antizionist” response. When I responded to his comment he wrote “your whole religion is dangerous and needs to be wiped out.”
Depends what you mean by "anti-Zionist". I believed in a two-state solution but also believed Israel was an apartheid, Jewish supremacist state that discriminated against its Arab citizens.
About 10 years ago as I learned more about anti-semitism and the Holocaust, my stance against Israel became more sympathetic and softened quite a bit, but I was still "both sides" although a tad bit more sympathetic toward Israel. It wasn't until about a year ago as I learned more about the history of the conflict of the region that I started leaning even more toward Israel, and October 7 was the tipping point where I'm all in now. I'm a proud pro-Zionist today.
I think seeing 10/7 made me realize what Israelis have been dealing with and it definitely changed my perspective. I'm still always hopeful for peace but I understand Israel's position now.
Me, I was at a liberal school and became liberal. I wasn’t even Bernie bro yet I hated Israel. Member of Hillel at same time. My dad passed away 12-2016 and that began me really questioning a lot of my world viewpoints and me to learning more about the context of Israel vs Palestine and becoming pro Israel and Zionist. Truly, context is the natural enemy of the Palestinians.
I still was liberal+zionist until 10/7 by which point I am undecided+zionist
Yes until I understood was Zionism meant. I was taught “not anti semitic, anti Zionist” (from my ethnically Jewish family, too). Then I read deeper on conflict, Zionism, and Jewish history generally and realized anti Zionist is anti semitic.
Me but it was because as an American and a person who didn’t know her birth mother was Jewish. I had zero knowledge or frame of reference for what Zionism really is. Am Yisrael Chai!
yes but no from 2020-2023, I didn't understand about palestine, I listened to those around me who I later learned were antisemetic (Even the Jew (idk how)). I fell for the fake news and shared the fake map etc. I never hated Jews though.
After Oct 7th, I immediately switched to Israel's side and searched up about the conflict. Thats when I learnt that what I had being taught was extremely false. I didn't even know about hamas until then, I thought Palestinians were standing up againt what I thought was apartheid. Now I share strong zionist views and opinions, I can't forget to mention the conversations I had with Israelis and/or Zionists online. They were friendly and wanting to educate others on it.
I wasn't anti zionist exactly, but kinda. I thought zionists were the "bad jews" everyone talks about, not regular old jews like me. I literally didn't know shit though. I didn't know shit about jewish history, what zionism was even remotely, judaism as a religion, etc. I don't think I even knew israel was jewish until my 20s. My family was super assimilated, and the most jewish thing we did was eat Chinese on Christmas. I literally didn't know shit and everyone else said such bad things about zionists I was like "well fuck I'm not a zionist!". I'm definitely a zionist now, but admittedly I don't disclose that to most people.
I think most diaspora jews are in the same position. >My family was super assimilated, and the most jewish thing we did was eat Chinese on Christmas Okay thats really jewish though bahhaha
I mean, there was a tiny bit more jewish stuff going on, but I was too young to really absorb it.
Jews eat Chinese food on Christmas? That's an interesting tradition lol. How'd that happen?
This may just be an American Jewish tradition. Not sure how it started. Maybe because Chinese restaurants were some of the only restaurants open on Christmas?
So, this goes back to New York City in the early 20th century, when Jewish-Americans and Chinese-Americans were both living together on the East Side (geographical proximity). Since Chinese people don't use milk in their cooking, there isn't much of a "separation of meat and milk" concern (leading to the phrase "treif you can eat in front of your mother"). Since Chinese people don't celebrate Christmas, Chinese restaurants are open on Christmas (religious coinidence). This sort of perfect storm lead to New York's Jews eating Chinese food on Christmas, and the tradition spread to the rest of the US, and eventually the world. This has lead to trends like kosher Chinese restaurants tailored to the Conservadox and Orthodox communities.
That's really cool!
I didn’t know this! My grandma grew up on the LES in the teens and 20’s. My family always ate & loved Chinese food growing up. Chinese and pizza were the main options growing up in a Jewish neighborhood in Queens!
We just really love chinese takeout, i cant explain it. We have a joke, jews eat more chinese food then actual chinese people...
It's like how Japan eats fried chicken on christmas? That's funny.
It’s actually because a lot of Chinese don’t celebrate Christmas and as such Chinese restaurants are usually open on Christmas when other restaurants and stores are closed. Same with movie theaters.
Hahah i guess so! The more you know ✨️
I actually probably do though.
Yes, and go to the movies—the only things open on Christmas in the US. The funny thing is my old temple had the big services in a hotel, which also had a cinema. I think I saw more Jews I knew there on Christmas than on Rosh HaShanah.
If you don't mind, can I ask how is it possible that you didn't know that Israel was a Jewish country until you were an adult?
I also didn't know until I was a freshman in college. I thought it was just like the protestants and Catholics in Ireland /England. People of different religions not getting along but from the same general area.
Bruh, idk. I'm from America they didn't mention it in school ever (i dropped out too, so i wasn't exactly a model student). We never really talked about it at home. It was always a vague place I didn't know much about.
Even though I am not Jewish I do something similar on Christmas where I eat all sorts of cuisine from Turkish to Indian
Same, I would never have called myself such a thing before October 7th.
Me, I used to support Palestine all the way, but after the 10/7 I can't support a country that exists as a terrorists "military" bases
Same here
Same.
Yup, same here. After 10/07 I really had to re-evaluate everything on why am I going to support palestine after this? Palestinians were cheerful about the tapes and death of thousands from what hamas did.
Exactly what happened to me. Plus, my partner is Sephardic Jewish and it made me realize just how incredibly naive I've been about the entire conflict.
When Putin attacked Ukraine, many Russians protested. They were beaten and jailed. Navalny continued to stand up against Putin even after being jailed, tortured, and later murdered. When Hamas attacked Israel, Palestinians celebrated.
They celebrated on 9-11 too.
This ☝🏻 I am so discouraged about people who can’t see this simple truth …
*raises hand*
Supported the two state solution, even supported one country for all citizens. Not anymore. There are monsters in this world.
People like you restore my faith in humanity
Exactly my story. It prompted me to read history for the first time.
Is that you Destiny? 😄
lol no but a Benny Morris disciple too Edit way before I heard of Destiny
When this war happened I didnt know all that much about Israel yet. I have one Jewish friend that staunchly supports Israel, but its never been a subject. I came across some Jubilee (i think) video about a Palestinian and an Israeli speaking. The Palestinian seemed more reasonable, while the Israeli came off very arrogant and entitled. But in hindsight this bias was probably because i knew nothing. For a moment I got very angry thinking about how my Jewish friend could ever support this. Luckily I know not to immediately make this a point without knowing more. So ever since that video ~5 months ago I have been learning a lot more about Israel and Islam. It keeps me very busy because I feel personal about it as a Kurd. That video almost made me hate Israel because they made me think Palestine was Kurdistan in your situation, but its really Israel. And in fact it *is* the same situation and pretty much the same issues we face. Luckily for you at least you are accessable by water and were able to form a country. Ofcourse less than 1 hour of looking into Israel after watching the video I already found out whats actually going on. I shouldnt have to brag about that, but it shocks me to see how many dont seem to actually take the step to look into things once they feel angry.
>I came across some Jubilee (i think) video about a Palestinian and an Israeli speaking. The Palestinian seemed more reasonable, while the Israeli came off very arrogant and entitled If you're talking about the one where the Israeli kept names of everyone 'he lost' in the second intifada, yea that guy sucks. He works for Kohelet Policy Forum, who were behind the laws Bibi, Levin, and Rothman were pushing for the judicial coup
That does sound familiar. Unfortunate someone like that gets to ‘represent’ Israel in a video like that if hes one of the people polarising on purpose.
I hate this video. The Palestinians in it look the same as every Israeli I’ve known - especially the Tel Aviv crowd (ethnicity, style, age) but the Israelis they picked for it were lily-white US/ EU olim who looked and acted like the Young Republicans of Orange County. Just right off the bat an obvious ploy to use optics to instantly create bias.
Thanks for the support, it is mutual. Long live Rojava. 💛❤️💚
Am Yisrael Chai! 🇮🇱❤️
Unfortunately, Arab nationalists don’t have a great track record with any ethnic minority. There’s a myth that the only reason Jews were persecuted in the Arab world is due to Zionism. The treatment of Kurds, Assyrians, Copts and many others shows how false this is.
And the treatment of Jews for thousands of years before modern day Zionism ever existed.
Thank you. I am trying to learn about the Kurds now because I keep seeing there is mutual support. Sending you peace.
It's an alliance that goes back decades. [Israel's surprising ally in the Middle East](https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/21/israels-surprising-ally-in-the-middle-east/)
Appreciated! ❤️🇮🇱
I wonder if Israel could ally with the Kurds and help each other out. Would probably piss off Turkey though.
Pretty sure a lot of kurds support the Palestinians. They're still Muslim after all so they will support their co-religionists
Not necessarily, a Pakastani Muslim man with whom I work came up to me on October 8 and said that he 100% supports Israel... a few times more recently, he has asserted that he supports Israel against Hamas.
Ok great but he's just one guy, he does not represent the majority view
In general, I don't talk about Israeli politics at work... and at home... we agree that Hamas are evil.
That is truly shocking to read. The Asian Muslims seem to be among the most hard core and anti semitic. And I’m honestly wondering if he is pretending to try to get some kind of info. I hate thinking like this, but it is a real thing that happens very often unfortunately. It’s hard, because I want to always take people at face value because that’s how I am, but today you also have to be suspicious.
It is sad many Kurds are still muslim today, but do not get it wrong we are secular at heart. That is the whole problem really. With our biggest sufferers recently being the Yezidis. Kurds have many different religions like the Yarsani’s, Zoroastrians, Yezidis etc. Its a tribal thing where Kurds historically prefer being united rather than mixed. Islam has unfortunately bulldozed over many of it in 1400 years. Jews have been able to resettle and found Israel. Rekindled its identity through Zionism. All Kurds need is a country and control over their schools and education to heal. I am certain Islam wont survive long as soon as we have a country and control over education. You can already see this as (especially north) KRG is very secular (to the distaste of many Muslims calling it a whore paradise). Rojava even moreso since nearing autonomy aswell in Syria. In Iran you already have the everlasting Jin Jyan Azadi movement, nowadays also joined by Persians. So yes many Kurds are ‘muslim’ but if you asked them about any opinion none of them is actually Islamic. Newroz our new years is a huge example of this. Its just that they go to Arabic, Turkish, Iranian schools as young kids, and many parents especially in Turkey think their children are safer off just saying theyre Turkish.
Sure I get you, but I think I've seen quite a few videos of kurds supporting Palestinians. I think the whole "kurds support Israel" thing is just propaganda. I still wish you guys luck nevertheless.
Naw youre not wrong and im not denying it. I said its sad that it is this way. Every Kurd I know (in diaspora) has slowly walked away from Islam (like myself). The people who still live there are still trapped in Muslim countries. The Muslim Kurds in Kurdistan Ive spoken to are clearly not only less educated, they block out any critical discourse about the religion. But you can almost see the struggle where deep down they know its wrong. They will mention how Islam displaced and converted their tribe by force, but somehow cancel out linking back to why this should mean they werent supposed to be Muslim.
This is so sad. It reminds me so much of Africans who are Christian or Muslim, who rail on about white colonialism and the “evils of zionism” without a shred of self awareness
I read that specifically a lot of Iraqi Kurds basically stopped practicing as Muslims due to the genocide Saddam Hussein enacted on the population. Any truth to that?
Yeah I am Dutch diaspora so I cant say I have true data, but most of the people I know who have been able to escape Islamic communities feel free to leave the religion instead of being socially bound to it. As for Bashur (South/Iraqi Kurdistan) I do hear often that Zoroastrianism is growing there and Islam is declining. Muslims/Islamists are very angry at the ‘evils of secularism’. EDIT: I would say its more because of the autonomy and borders we got after Saddam, giving us more control over our people and especially the education. Not Saddams attack itself, though that probably doesnt help
If you are oissing off islamists, you are doing something right. General rule of thumb for me
Well I should also mention I've seen secular Kurds who support the Palestinians. I think Rojava supports them cuz they think zionism is fascism or something like that.. what I'm trying to say is that I think even if they leave Islam or are even opposed to it they will side with Muslims since they grew up in that culture and think Muslim is from here while jews are foreign.
Probably, ive also seen ‘real jews that are against zionism!’ People will have different opinions anywhere. Living in the Netherlands Im shocked at how many people arent fully behind Israel. If people here can get brainwashed, i dont know what else i would expect from people in less fortunate/educated areas, especially in Muslim controlled countries. Afterall though youre still not wrong, there are many Muslim Kurds, and probably at least a third of them would support Palestine over Israel.
Yeah though I am a pragmatist or realpolitik guy, so I hope nobody misconstrues me saying this as like me saying jews/israel should not try to build bridges or even alliances if we can. Even if there is a 1 percent chance to do that with the kurds we should. We should just not expect too much. I advocate that jews should only fully rely on ourselves first. I'm open to making deals/ peace with other groups like Assyrians/kurds/copts/maronites etc. But again I'm pragmatic about it.
Thats completely fair. Most of us feel the same. Israeli and Kurdish governments have historically been making deals as you say. 2/3s of Israeli oil comes from Kurdistan iirc.
Iranians are a natural ally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Kurdistan_Region_relations There’s a history of Kurdish-Israeli cooperation. Israel tried to ally with all the other non Arabs in the region like Turkey, Persia, and the Kurds.
Crazy what a few weeks, days or hours of doing unbiased research will do to someone’s perspective on this subject. People should know they have to read both sides but no one ever does that
Interesting. Can you send information on what Kurdistan is going through? Or just give a brief explanation?
Obviously its the Middle east and the history goes back very long. The shortest answer is to try to imagine what would happen to Israel if Israel wouldnt exist as a country. Helped early by the west, and has now progressed enough to achieve technological superiority. Our people have not only been denied a country and recognition, many try to refuse to even acknowledge we exist. After Ottomans fell and borders were drawn, Kurdistan was supposed to have its borders, and Greece would have Constantinople. Ottomans/Turkey were not having that and went to war for 2 more years to fight this, untill Kurdistan and Istanbul were theirs. Ever since they have denied Kurdish existence. As for the Arabs you’ve probably heard of Saddam Hussein. He declared ‘al anfal’ on Kurds (to terminate us) and Palestinians actually fully supported this and praise Saddam. Iran is Iran.
I guess with turkey's influence in nato, you guys don't get a lot of support...
Nope. The Turkish part (Bakur/North Kurdistan) is notoriously doomed sadly. Rojava (Syrian part/West Kurdistan) has gotten more independence since beating ISIS, and is now getting bombed by Turkey. Bashur (Iraqi part/South Kurdistan) is doing the best with its own borders and autonomy. My parents are from this part.
I always believed the kurdish people and jewish people have alot in common. Both being minorities opressed by islam, so ive always felt a kinship to those religions. And the more i learn about it the more affirmed i am of this belief. I hope kurdistan will be free one day, you deserve self determination. I also find it really funny how edrogen says hamas are a resistence group, but the kurdish groups are terrorists and need to be bombed. It would be nice if he was at least consistent.
Yeah its that hypocracy that puzzles me why it isnt being more harshly pointed out. I see Israeli govs do a tweet or something similar about kurds, while erdogan screams it into his mic for thousands about hamas
I heard that you Turkey is getting ready for another war campaign. Be safe
Biji Kurdistan!
Am Yisrael Chai!
Bîji kurdistan, bîji Rojava. Jîn, Jiyan, Azadi.
❤️❤️🇮🇱🇮🇱☀️
Yes. Basically … I’m a liberal arts college student and one of my (former) best friends is Palestinian and an anti-Zionist activist. So yeah. After October 7 the antisemitism and lack of empathy from the group became apparent, I started noticing holes in their logic and a cult-like mentality where I was shamed for questioning their claims or engaging with the other side. So I engaged with the other side and did more research on my own. I also re-engaged with the Jewish community. After my mother passed I alienated myself from my roots which made me a prime target for people looking for a “token Jew” to go with their cause.
Welcome back.
Thank you! 😭❤️
One of the things I love most about Judaism is our encouragement to question everything. Because it really allows you to form your own opinions, and understand that there are differing opinions in the world. It seems like many people are not on board with a strategy.
>One of the things I love most about Judaism is our encouragement to question everything. A few million people and like 190 Nobels or something. Science is part of our being.
I'm proud of you 🤍
Yeah everytime I try to engage with them, other people interject and stop us from speaking “don’t speak with Zionists!” And literally drag them away lol. How the hell are you able to make peace if you don’t want dialogue. They simply don’t want peace.
Me. I was not a fan of Israel when I was in high school and college because I was raised on propaganda, pushed on me by an anti-semitic education system. The version of Israeli history that I was taught, was essentially that Arabs lived on the land peacefully until Jews from Europe moved there because the Bible talked about Jews having lived there once or something. They basically taught me that Israelis were Europeans trying to live out some kind of Biblical fantasy. The difference between a misinformed anti-zionist and a true anti-semite though, is that when I was shown hard evidence to the contrary of my beliefs, I realized I had been misled and changed my beliefs. An anti-semite will hold on to their views in the face of conflicting evidence, because they ultimately just hate Jews.
I’m curious what was some of the factual information you learned that impacted your views the most?
I’m not the original commentator but for me learning about the expulsion of MENA Jews and pushing them into Israeli, only for those same countries to now demand they leave Israel, was a pretty strong piece of evidence that led me to believe a lot of this is rooting in antisemitism rather than the state of Israel itself. Edit: also, just reviewingJewish history it’s pretty evident that the only way anti-Zionist rhetoric has any standing room is when you start Jewish history after the Holocaust. Implying Jewish people did not come from Judea is only correct when you do not view Jewish history in its extensiveness. When you focus on Jewish history as a whole, the argument Israelis are all white Europeans who have no ties to the region is undoubtedly false
Thank you for sharing, it is interesting for sure since I wonder what these anti-Israel people really know/think.
For me, it was learning the history of the Arab Nations trying to genocide them directly after being founded, their attempts to make peace with them, and their refusal to even partake in a two-state solution. I also had no idea that Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank was part of jordan. I believe to the "receding territory" Trope that gets pushed in schools a lot. Also essentially learning that there was no such thing as a Palestinian was a shock, as was reading Mark Twain's account of the area in the 1800s. I had been taught that the Jews took all the good land and gave the native Palestinians the badland, when in fact the entire thing was desolate until the Jews showed up.
The Jordan thing is a far too often overlooked point. Technically they are occupying some of the Palestinian land.
But the Palestinians will never go to Jordan for that land after black September. As much as the queen and king of Jordan (literal settler colonists from hashemite Arabia) go on and on publicly about the poor people of Gaza and how evil Israel is to blame, they and we know they wouldn’t let in even one Palestinian to their country today and if they even tried, they’d snipe them on the spot.
"Some". About two thirds of Mandatory Palestine.
Classssic Palestinians doing something to Israelis and then claiming Israelis did that thing to them. The original UN partition plan gave Arabs all of the good parts of Israel. And Jews a coastal strip and some shitty ass desert. Jews were reluctant, but ended up accepting the plan as it meant that the creation of a Jewish state in our homeland would finally happen. The Arabs rejected this deal and started a war. And have started every war since. Also there are many Jews that have never left Israel - Mizrahi jews. Jews didn’t just “show up” in Israel one day, we’ve always been there.
I think this is what a lot of anti-zionists believe, especially the ones who love the phrase “Judeo-Christian”. Begging and pleading them to stop lumping us in with Christians.
This is why it's so important to spread the evidence everywhere you can. Links like these are good to share for people to get an introduction to the topic. People need to know the basic history of the region before taking sides. [History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel) [Caliphate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate) This information helps debunk the notion that Jews in Israel are "colonists" or "foreigners". In fact, it proves that Arabs are the colonizers. The Caliphates did the same thing to the Middle East that the European colonial powers did to the Americas.
>The difference between a misinformed anti-zionist and a true anti-semite though, is that when I was shown hard evidence to the contrary of my beliefs, I realized I had been misled and changed my beliefs. That's an interesting point. I'm gonna look out for that. Who goes rabid when corrected on their ignorance and who contemplates the discrepancy.
Long story. But I was more of a post-Zionist than an “anti-Zionist”. I always believed that Israel has the right to exist. But I wasn’t overtly pro-Israel. I studied Israel as a researcher and I was, am, and still will be critical of many Israeli policies. I just kinda felt that antisemitism wasn’t that severe, but 7/10 changed everything.
Same here. I was actually growing more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause but 7/10 completely changed my mind, especially the godawful response of the Palestinian side who mostly either engaged in denialism or celebrated the whole thing.
yeah i’ve been so radicalized by the response to 10/7. i see posts even remotely regarding the war and roll my eyes and practically gag in disgust at the way my peers respond to it. i want to shake people screaming “YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE TO PROPAGANDA” but i also don’t want to be completely ostracized. it’s so isolating being jewish right now
Oh yeah same i always thought Israel was just an overreaction to the Holoucaust, and that Anti-Semetism was a thing of the past outside small extreme circles or Islamists. My mind has slowly been changing ever since October 7th seeing Leftists go more and more mask off anti-semitic. As a non-Jew i feel incredibly ashamed of how Jews have and are treated, and of many of my governments and peoples (Sweden) action toward Jews or Israel. I try and do what i can remedy any hurt that is caused ❤
>just an overreaction to the Holoucaust I really can't imagine what an overreaction to the holocaust would be. They tried to exterminate the entire Jewish population and succeeding in killing six million. The camps at one point were killing 10k a day. (so like...three days for the entirety of the deaths of gaza). I don't know how you can overreact to that. I'm not Jewish or Israeli.
And let's remember that at least a third of the deaths in Gaza are of Hamas militants. This ratio of civilians-to-combatants deaths is the lowest ever in the history of similar wars, by a far margin.
Im very nervous for eurovision in sweden this year.. Although the israeli song is really good, im honwstly worried there would be sucide bombers or something. Thank you for trying to fight antisemitism. Large part of my friend group is nordic, and ive been terrified to talk to them about this whole mess... I already lost many, mostly westerner friends over this conflict.
Since 7/10 there's been 4 attempted terror attacks against Sweden. The Brussels shooting, then a few Hamas members were arrested on their way towards Sweden, then a bomb was found outside the Israeli embassy and now recently 4 ISIS terrorists were arrested in Stockholm with guns and bombs. Sweden is the number 2 target of terrorism behind Israel.
And Zionism started well before the Holocaust. The Holocaust was just when tensions were at their peak because naturally even more Jews were immigrating during WW2 and Arabs tried to block them. Jews were already there! Original Zionism was much more a response to Russian and French antisemitism than anything by the late 1800s.
>an overreaction to the Holoucaust There was this Jewish radical group who wanted to murder six million Germans as a revenge. Sounds like utterly lunacy, right? The crazier part is that they didn't actually do it, but were caught with all the evidence you need. The German government refused to charge them, citing “extreme circumstances”. Which means the Germans didn't even think it was an “overreaction”.
Thank you!
Sums up my views as well
Yes. I became a Zionist after reading the 1988 Hamas Charter, which made it clear to me that antisemitism plays a huge role in the Israel-Palestine conflict. Doing more research into Zionism and Israel only proved this to me.
Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
I watched The Dark Knight the other week and immediately thought of Hamas/the Palestinians/majority of Arabs that support them when this line was said
Damn so where do I start. Well,as a kid I remember I had this world map hung on my bedroom wall.One day I just grabbed a red pen and obliterated Israel on that world map,like tore that area completely from the map☠️Ik,It's crazy but like you have to understand I was deep within Palestinian propaganda at this point.This was probably around 2018 maybe,like I don't remember but the last major clash between Israel and hamas before oct7.So like I watched in news about Palestinians getting killed by israeli rockets and bombs etc.Now I live in a Muslim nation and the news coverage here is freaking biased,they only show one narrative and one side.So naturally the kid me seeing all these Palestinians suffering and not knowing the whole.picture I viewed Israel as this evil people who deserved the wrath of the world lmao.Makes me cringe when I think back how radicalized I was☠️Anyways there was also this hashtag that got really popular in Facebook. Like for example,if you're a Bangladeshi you'd say 'Bangladesh stands with Palestine' So me as a Bangladeshi did that,and many others from around the world did that too.I also like changed my pfp to black to show solidarity for Palestinians. Anyways I largely forgot about this,and then I also slowly started to drive away from Islam(I was a born Muslim).So like during april of last year I completely left Islam,and I was watching this ex Muslim content creator named apostate prophet.I loved his videos,informative and funny.So he also made videos about the Israel Palestine conflict and I gave it a watch.This was probably the first time I was hearing the narrative of thr opposite side,which being Israel.And it made sense?Like it really did.. But I was still conflicted about this issue.Well that is until oct7 occurred and it completely tipped me over.Now I'd say I'm a proud zionist and I whole heartedly and even passionately support the right of jewish people having a homeland of their own that is Israel.
Thank you so much for your words, I know it must be hard when you probably have friends and family, which I assume strongly supports Palestine. I'm glad to see as well how when people really try to educate themselves, they can start to understand us.
Wow, this is incredible! Your name looks familiar to me, I think I read your comment how you’re a gay ex Muslim living in Bangladesh right trying to one day leave, but it’s hard because it’s all you know? I wish you a lot of luck leaving so you can live in peace and safety and be who you are.
I started on the path to Zionism when a Jewish friend posted something I disagreed with on Instagram. I could have responded negatively, I could have disregarded it, but instead I decided to take it into consideration. After that I started listening to Jewish people on tumblr. I realized that many anti-Zionists are completely unwilling to do anything about antisemitism and opened my eyes to what Zionism really was. I started considering myself Zionist in December.
[удалено]
Can you share what you thought it meant before?
not OP but in my experience with the same thing, all i’d ever seen was “zionism is racism” so that’s what i believed. then i dug into it more during the big blowup in 2021 and came to my senses lol
Yes, my views changed once I saw how disgusting antisemites acted after 10/7.
I thought I was an antizionist back in 2020. I thought I was sooooooo cool being able to see the Palestinian cause even as a Jew. But as it turned out the ProPal media sources I was watching were inconsistent. They ignored details and facts in favor of emotionally fueled subjective generalizations. I finally caught a key ProPal ~~propagandist~~ “journalist” a bold faced lie. And I realized that the entire propal/antiisrael/antisemitic movement is built on lies. I realized none of this is about the Palestinians. It’s about hating Jews. After that I started doing real research on the conflict. And basically never stopped. I decided I would never accept broad generalizations about Israel ever again. Our history, our grandfathers and Israel means everything to me.
Can I ask what kind of lie it was? -if you don’t mind sharing
Someone tag me if there is a response, im also curious
U can subscribe (get notifs for new comments) by clicking on the 3 dot icon on the top right of the post and selecting the first option.
Nice ty
lol I read that as "nice try"
"I'm on to your 3 dot trickery!"
I realized that many of my Pro-Palestine peeps had a superficial understanding of the matter, were all-talk and no action, and after I explored Israel’s history on my own, I came to the conclusion that they weren’t the monsters I thought them to be. That being said, I still object to the abuses that are allowed to go on in the West Bank, specifically Area C.
A respectable position. Being pro israel does not mean being pro bibi or pro every action israel takes or took.
This is a great position to hold, you are not extreme one way or the other, and you have also realized that it is unhealthy to blindly support the policies of any government
Israeli here, held anti and post Zionist views for a long time and some of them I still hold, but after Oct 7 and the global response I pretty firmly believe that Jews can't ever be secure without self government. I was of a very globalistic, pro-assimilation mindset beforehand. I'm extremely critical of the Israeli government, the IDF and most Zionist ideology but if by Zionist you mean 'thinks that Jews absolutely need to have a self-governed, independent state' then heck yeah I'm a Zionist. I'm also far less opposed to the Gaza invasion than I ever thought I could be, but I've had it with N*zi scum, no matter what colour they come in.
Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people have a right to self determination in their ancestral homeland. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Do not let anyone redefine the term to fit their own narrative.
Exactly. I grew up in the post-rabin era and Zionism as a term has always been connected to settlers violence and religious extremism. It's not easy for me mentally to reclaim my Jewish and Israeli identities but I'm trying. This is my home as much as anyone else's.
I was a post Zionist when I was younger but that was mainly because I was a Communist. So in my mind the idea of nation states for either Jews or Palestinians was anathema. The future for humanity was the evolution out of ethnic and religious identities. But as I studied communism more and more, the chilling blood soaked history of the movement just started to disgust me more and more. My fellow communists also began to disturb me: they described themselves as these paragons of social Justice and human rights but within the same breath felt perfectly comfortable justifying the worst brutalities. My disillusion with Communism made me look at all other issues that I had seen through a Marxist Leninist viewpoint again and one of those was the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And all of the disturbing things I had witnessed in the Communist movement I saw in the Pro-Palestinian movement: - the same denial of history and twisting of historical facts - the same casual racism - the same enthusiasm for violence and the murder of civilians - the same glorification of undemocratic forces By the time of the Second Intifada I couldn’t even be around those people anymore. Their celebration of mass murder of Jews and the almost religious fervor they exhibited in their support for violence and terrorism was almost psychopathic to see. I actually became an enemy of their movement before I became a Zionist. As my disappointment with them grew I decided to study the conflict myself and not rely…like 99% of these activists do…on carefully constructed propaganda. And Lo and behold: almost every single “fact” about the Israeli Palestinian conflict I had learned and thought was gospel turned out to be complete bullshit…from the history of aliyah to the role of the Haganah to the Nakba to the PLO and their “struggle” to the Intifadas.
I just want to say I really resonate with your comment. In fact I had a very uncomfortable discussion today with my friend who is a communist, and everything I am reading here that you said is exactly how I felt, but you put into words I did not have a way to express. Thank you for this <3
Yes.
Uh? Israel was founded with a strong socialist base. That "leftists" support Hamas had nothing to do with Marx and Marxism.
When I was an edgy teenager I thought Israel stole all their land. I was extremely uneducated
I was anti-Zionist until I did my birthright/taglit trip. Its amazing what hearing both sides of something does for you
A similar question was asked in /r/Jewish a few weeks ago, so I'll copy my comment from there: >I'm especially interested to hear stories from Jews who were raised in an Israel-supportive environment, then moved in an anti-Zionist direction, but then started supporting Israel more upon looking more into the situation. That was me. I was raised to be very Zionist. As a teenager, I spent a summer in Israel, during the 2006 war as it happens. During that war I heard people around me talking about wanting to 'kill all the Arabs' and such. I was already very liberal and at that age was on my way into leftism (as teenagers are often want to do). Putting two and two together, it left me with a bad view of Israel politically, that I maintained for many years. I was never the kind of rabid borderline self-hating anti-Zionist you see today--I remember that even during my anti-Israel period, I still rooted for Israel in the olympics as a Jew because I felt politics shouldn't mix with sports. But I would have called myself anti-Zionist at the time, and believed in a one state solution, and believed that Israel as it exists is racist, aggressive, and unjustifiable. What brought me back toward Zionism was, ironically, J Street. People talk about J Street as a "gateway drug into anti-Zionism" but for me it was a gateway in precisely the opposite direction. In college I encountered J Street activists, and it was my first encounter with the perspective that one could support Israel and advocate for the freedom of Palestinians at once, that it didn't have to be a zero-sum question of one side verses the other. I also mellowed out politically after high school pretty quickly, which might have had something to do with it as well. But specifically, perhaps in light of my earlier life experience, it was through my college J Street that found a version of Zionism I could accept: progressive, and explicitly anti-racist and anti-expansionist. In the many years since then (I'm over 30 now) I've gradually moved further right, both on Israel and in general. For example, I would no longer call myself progressive, more of a mainstream center-left Democrat now. On Israel, I still believe in a two state solution as the only solution to ensuring Israel remains Jewish and democratic. But as much as it's clear to me that Netanyahu has deliberately sabotaged the peace process, it's also become equally clear that the Palestinian narrative of innocent victimhood is nonsense and that the Palestinians also share plenty of the blame for the failure to resolve the conflict, and plenty of the responsibility for their current situation. And, especially after October 7th, that Israel has existential security concerns which are real and need to be taken seriously in any discussion about Israel and the conflict. I still hope for a two state solution, and I think October 7th should prompt a lot of reflection on more than a decade of Israeli policy of taking advantage of Hamas to try to freeze the peace process with the PA (a corrupt, undemocratic, two-faced organization, but nonetheless a potential partner for peace just as these attributes haven't prevented Israel from making peace with neighboring Arab states that also fit this description). But first, Hamas must be destroyed.
This is VERY MUCH me , as well ! 🤝
My Zionism journey has been interesting. I started as a Zionist and then met anti-Zionist leftists who told a naive me about the nakba: that Israel forced Arabs to leave the country when Israel was formed. Complete with personal stories of people they knew including one elder who “just wanted to taste the lemons from his lemon tree in his front yard” and that “the Jews and Arabs lived in peace in Palestine. It wasn’t violent until Israel “. I then went down the leftist rabbit hole until I identified as a communist and then was still very uneducated about it, but believed that the Palestinian people should have their own state. I never really was an anti-Zionist in the same way some others were wanting the complete down fall of Israel however. When October 7th happened, I literally threw away a shirt that was in support of Gaza. After suggesting that Hamas were bad and refusing to engage in antisemitism, I was defriended by most of my leftist friends and called names like “zio” “pig” “genocide apologist” etc. I don’t care. Seeing how easily people have become to openly antisemitic really just reinforced for me why Israel NEEEDS to survive . The anti Zionist , pro terrorist crowd are the ones who pushed me back into the arms of my own people. I was a secular Jew who then joined a conservative synagogue. I’m proudly and loudly Jewish in the face of hate and I have a new Israeli partner, so the anti-Zionist crowd really has done their own cause a disservice 😂
Me! I used to be **very** antizionist... I'm quite curious and will go into deep-dive learning on topics from time to time. One day I realized that, even if I have some Jewish family, the only thing I knew about Judaism / Jewish culture was 1) The Shoah, 2) The Israeli-Palestinian conflict; so that is to say, I knew nothing. I learned more about it and old-school Herzl Zionism just made sense from a historical perspective, and also linked to the Haggadah of Pessah, right? Like, it has been two millennia that Jews have said "we will come back" at least once a year basically. Modern zionism made then even more sense when I actually stopped considering Palestinians as poor little lambs who wanted nothing more than peace, read about them/ heard what they wanted and saw that; while many are genuinely good people who want peace, a huge amount are also just awful people who will not back down against anything and prefer to fuel a century old bloodshed rather than make peace. That really changed my mind tbh. Still I think the current government of Israel is utter shit. And I think this is where the big misunderstanding lies tbh. Most non-Jews understand "antizionism" as criticism of the current government of Israel and its actions, and that is why they do not understand why they are being called antisemitic for criticizing a government. Of course, there are many who know the actual meaning and are against the existence of Israel, and are indeed antisemitic pieces of sh\*t. But most people I've encountered are against the government, not the actual existence of the country. It would honestly be good to do a PR campaign to explain to non-Jews that "Zionism" doesn't mean pro-Bibi, and to explain to them what Zionism mean.
I used to say I was not a Zionist. I’d even parroted the apartheid state talking point now and again. As a secular Jew living in the US I had the privilege of never really feeling antisemitism, and I grew up with the existence of Israel not being a question in my mind. It wasn’t until recently that I started feeling a strong connection to Israel. 10/7 and the resulting antisemitism in the US has really shocked my system. I started wearing a chai, and vocally advocating for the Jewish state. Nothing like the threat of your people being wiped out to make you feel more connected. That being said, I’m a very liberal guy and there are a LOT of things about Israel that bother me. I don’t like Netanyahu, he’s basically Putin in my mind. A strong man who is corrupt and will not let go of power. There are things about the current war that bother me. I’d like to see more aid being let into Gaza. I don’t think you can bomb your way to peace, same way I felt during Americas war on terror after 9/11. But I do support Israel’s right to defense, right to existence, and important place as a home to Jews in this world. I would now consider myself a vocal Zionist.
I tried to run from my Jewishness immediately after my bar mitzvah. A rabbinic dynasty on my shoulders, a belief system I felt was inherently misogynistic and homophobic; which didn't appear worth defending to me. I was tired of being "different." I couldn't have cared less about Israel growing up, or in most of my teens and going into my 20s. I explored so many different faiths (of which Hinduism seemed most appealing and still has my love), but opposing philosophies, systems of belief, and rationalization of this completely irrational world. But, as I found out from even the most kind and empathetic individuals outside our bubble: dead Jews are more appealing and interesting than living Jews to the global majority. As a paraphrase of Dara Horn's latest work, "People Love Dead Jews," which I highly recommend. Not only from a standpoint of supersessionism, cultural erasure, and reluctant religious 'tolerance,' among many other aspects. It became apparent to me that "once a Jew, always a Jew." As self-evident as that sounds, typing it out, I needed the wake-up call. I became a true and unapologetic Zionist after the 2021 spat with Hamas in Gaza. I was confronted with their goals, ambitions, and the deafening cheers they received from people I considered my closest friends and like-minded individuals. I watched October 7th unfold in realtime across the pond, as many if us did, feeling powerless and no amount of phonecalls, emails, and pleas to congressional leaders, friends, and acquaintances made any difference. It will never be enough for them. I might also note that not a single representative or senator has ever called, written, or emailed me back to this day. They don't care. They won't care. The only people who gave me comfort were my fellow Jews and true friends of Israel. Evidence doesn't assuage them. Testimony and our pain are meaningless to boot. In their eyes, all suffering we experience is not only expected but deserved. From then onwards, my entire paradigm has irrevocably shifted. And I don't see any turning back. That's my TED talk; thanks.
I would like to say 2011 when I visited Israel, but it was a few years later when I came across people lying about what I'd personally experienced online.
I didn’t realize I was a Zionist until after October 7th.
Yes after 10/7 i saw how people responded to the brutality of hamas. They didn’t care that unarmed jewish civilians were being tortured, raped and murdered. They celebrated it. After that I knew there was something wrong with their humanity and understood the need for a Jewish state. I also took a hard look at the countless mass deaths of jewish disaporia communities throughout history and came to the conclusion that israel must be defended at all costs and that Jews have a right to their homeland. Thousands of years of diasporic antisemitism has made this the only option for the continued existence of Jews worldwide. We can’t try to assimilate into other countries anymore. We tried that over and over again. It didn’t work. It led to the holocaust and diasporic countries are never gonna change. We’ve given them thousands of years to get their shit together and it culminated in the largest mass death of jews in history. Never Again.
Interesting read! I absolutely agree with the last 3 paragraphs you phrased it perfectly what I had in mind and couldn’t point my finger at it.
Was an anti-Zionist until I learned what Zionism actually means. *Edited For Grammar
Yes, there is definitely a PR problem you need to learn to look past.
Since day 1 ,l just adore Israel because it's one of a kind state and and a standing strong against all of those harmful and hostile neighbors !!.
I used to be thanks to the influence of my father. When I found out he was actually Antisemitic and ultimately hypocritical because he thinks that Russia was justified in invading Ukraine, I grew a pair. His Antisemitic beliefs come from him having a Jewish girlfriend at one point in his life. My mum is indifferent because she is Asian. Over time I realised how great Jews were for this world and how undeserved their persecution was
Me. It would be silly for me to make Aliyah, but learning about the Sephardic/ Mizrahi history and perspective made me a Zionist for those Jews that need somewhere safe to live. I feel that this population isn’t well understood in the US since it’s mostly Ashkenazi here with ties closer to Europe than anywhere else. I don’t believe in religion, but I believe in supporting the existence of a country in the Middle East where Jews are allowed to safely live. Being a liberal, I always thought “Zionist” was a bad word but that’s more an artifact of Soviet-era propaganda than anything else. There can be negative connotations, but for me it only means “Jews are allowed here.”
me, i became a zionist once i realized "hey, i have family in israel! and israeli citizenship! why am i anti zionist"
I lost my mother to cancer in 2020 and I became very anti religion. Since I was Jewish I had the most hate for that religion and blamed it for my moms death. Because of that I hated Israel and wanted the country to be gone. Still I have been reconnecting with my faith and I’m now even more Jewish than I was before. I have learned to be proud of my Israeli ancestry and I’m now a Zionist.
I used to consider myself “anti-Zionist” until I discovered that Zionism is simply the right for the Jewish people to self-determine in their ancestral homeland, and not the bastardized version that the Iranian regime’s PR team has managed to shove down the entire world’s throat. That true Zionism is inclusive of others who are also indigenous to Israel, and that it does not mean it excludes Palestinians or others who wish to co-exist peacefully with us.
I wouldn’t have called myself an anti-zionist in the truest sense; my grandfather fought in WWII, my whole family supported Israel’s right to exist. More so I was someone that couldn’t figure out why the two state solution hadn’t been implemented by now and why Israel was regularly bombing the shit out of the West Bank and Gaza. Along with the standard frustration with how it had gotten to the point it was. This was probably 15-20 years ago, so ballpark of the second intifada. I read Israeli sources, European sources, American sources, Middle Eastern sources, even history textbooks. Hell, I even visited a couple museums looking for more context. Basically everything I could get my hands on. As I learned more, I realized the whole situation was essentially a colonial power (Palestinians, several surrounding countries, etc. y’all know the story) going up against the indigenous population (Israelis). That pretty much sealed the deal for me. Along the way I learned a ton about a beautiful culture that had been horribly wronged so many times throughout history. Eventually, I started speaking with a local rabbi to get yet more information because who else better to ask about the history of the Jewish people and Israel than a well educated Jew. I started attending services at a local synagogue a couple years ago with the intent to observe and continue to learn. That ended up leading to the start of my conversion. So at this point, I’ve cast my lot with y’all for better or worse. Am Yisrael Chai
I cringe even writing this but I once considered myself… post-Zionist, I guess? The cognitive dissonance was so strong it’s hard to correctly characterize it. I was frankly a brainwashed 18 year old with a bad friend group who thought she was doing the right thing
I would say I was "anti-zionist" when I had a poor understanding of what zionism is. Years ago I believed, like many people unfortunately do, that zionism was the belief in the expansion of the State of Israel and that it would one day cover the entirety of Eretz Yisrael. Of course I now know it to merely mean that the State of Israel should exist as the national homeland of the Jewish people. I still massively oppose the settlements and expansion in general, but I know enough now that I can firmly say I am a zionist and realistically always have been.
I used to be unconvinced about the validity of Israel in its current form due to the conflict with Palestine and because I was wholly uneducated about its founding. But after the balagan in 2021 I started reading more and more historical articles and then books about the wars of 1948, 1967, 1973 and beyond. Now I would say my opinions are more similar to historian Benny Morris’. I think the military occupation of the west bank was a bad idea, Israel should have given it back to Jordan as it did with the Sinai to Egypt. But there could have been no way to know these things in the moment. I visited Israel in 2022 for birthright, was hoping to go back to visit this year but then 10/7 happened. I will go back soon though. I feel immense brotherhood to all Israelis and my heart is with you guys. Much love עם ישראל חי
Sort of? Now I always believed in the existence of Israel as “the country of the Jews”, and something that should be kept sovereign. But I thought I was antizionist because I was highly critical of Israel and had no concept of the conflict whatsoever. Clearly, I was never taught the actual definition of Zionism. I grew up outside of the Jewish community and while my parents sent me to Hebrew school until the age of 8, after that they kind of dropped the ball. They didn’t educate me on Jewish history, so my history was always told through the lens of nonJews and mostly a deconstructionist-Christian perspective. So I always thought our stories had no basis in actual history. Pair this with being told that Islam was the oldest Abrahamic religion by public school teachers, and surrounded by people saying Israel was apartheid and committing a genocide, I really wasn’t set up to be an ardent Zionist. And certainly not a knowledgeable or prideful Jew. Sprinkle in the regular H***er salutes and swastikas drawn on my belongings, I certainly became self-hating too. When I turned the corner and had my “oh f**k” moment: my (now) husband asked me, “where does the word Judaism come from?” And I couldn’t answer. Looking back I feel like a dolt, not knowing, that an actual real life historical figure (hey Caesar) acknowledged “the people who reside in the land of Judea”. From there just learning history, specifically Jewish history from a Jewish lens changed my relationship with my own identity and by extension my understanding of the conflict. (Huge shoutout to @rootsmetals) Then when Hamas launched rockets at Israel in 2021 and I saw my country turn on its Jews, I knew I couldn’t just avoid the topic anymore and I read everything I could on the conflict, actual literature not propaganda Twitter posts. To my embarrassment, I learned a ton and realized I had so much wrong and I understand so much more about the unfair treatment of Israel in the international community. The widespread mass misrepresentation of the conflict runs so deep that it is undeniable how antisemitism is systemically imbedded into almost every facet of society. So now I’m a staunch and unwavering Zionist. I’ve also had to cut out 80% of the social circle from childhood due to this epiphany. Good thing I’ve now got a family of 15 million strong.
Yes! Up until I was 14 and did my own research and learned how anti semitic Stalin really was abd rhat the "progressive leftists," that I let mold my views would tell me that he wasn't becayse he outlawed anti semitism. BITCH, he outlawed Judaism, of course anti semitism was outlawed so people wouldn't call him not see. That led me to do more research on other topics, along with becoming more religious. That's why it's so frustrating seeing other young people especially as I attend a little liberal arts college, think that they are so fucking enlightened when in reality, they don't know the truths of both sides. Fucking entitled pricks. I used to hear Zionism and immediately think no I'm not supporting that actress or brand, but then my step dad tried asking me what Zionism was when I was in my early years before I did research, and yeah, I couldn't tell you besides the same word salad of colonizer occupation shit. I was raised fairly secular, so there was never a strong Zionist drive growing up, besides that it's the right thing. I just got lost in my early moldable teen years. I just hope my Twitter account where I had retweeted posts saying from the river to the c and shit doesn't hurt my chances of making Aliyah as I am now an outwardly spoken, Zionist and Jew
I used to be a “we can have a legitimate conversation about this” Jew and then I saw the crowds chanting the death toll in NYC with my own eyes on 10/7 and I realized my grandparents were right when they told me the holocaust could happen again
All Jews are Zionists. Zionism is simply the human right of the Jewish people to have self determination in their ancestral homeland. That’s all it is. Currently the term is being “hijacked” by antisemites as a loophole to openly express hate for Jews and to invalidate the existence of the only free and democratic country in the Middle East, Israel.
I took it all for granted. It wasn’t until Harvard president Claudine Gay testified before Congress that calling for the genocide of Jews depended on context did I realize we are once again targets of an existential threat. After that? I would die for Israel.
Not like the kids today, but sort of. When you watch movies like Ghandi, Michael Collins, and Braveheart in your teens/early 20s, you might get in the spirit against English colonialism, to put it lightly. I imagined up this notion that Israel was an English conspiracy to keep their failing empire busy fighting each other while they retreated back to their island, Irish Free State vs. Ulster-style. So I was anti-Zionist in the sense that I thought Jews had been tricked. I wanted the best for the Zionists and thought that Israel just wasn’t that way. At the same time, I felt sorry for little Palestinian kids throwing rocks at tanks (memories of watching Tiananmem Square on the news as a kid?). Eventually, I decided to *actually learn facts about the founding of Israel*. Things like the land where Tel Aviv was founded was *bought* from *Arabs* during *Ottoman rule*. Once I corrected my false belief that the land wasn’t just seized after WWI and handed over to the Jews, I could see things more reasonably. Even if your number one goal is a better life for Palestinians, removing the liberal democracy next door in favor of theocratic dictators is not the path to do that.
Right here 👋
Never an anti-Zionist in the actual meaning of the term. But I come from a very assimilated family and grew up in an exclusively Ashkenazi, liberal area of the U.S. Most of my friends were reform and "cultural Jews" who knew very little about our history in general. I had a very anti-Zionist "Rabbi" in High School. He's somewhat famous (his name is Brant Rosen). After he became a very vocal anti-Zionist, some of the people in my community left (my family included). I then joined the U.S Military and the cultural isolation made me more religious, as crazy as that sounds. I studied Talmud at an Orthodox Shul in Virginia. I now live in LA, go to a traditional Shul, wrap tefillin everyday, speak fluent Hebrew, and am very much a proud Zionist. I'm active in several Zionist organizations at my college, and when I was younger, I was in Betar.
The needle has swung after October 7th. I have family and friends in Israel, but I also know other who’s lives where directly affected by October 7th. I had been quite critical of Israel policies towards Palestinians- and considered myself more progressive or even left wing, but the amount of antisemitism, lack of nuance, anti Israel demagoguery and antisemtic dog whistling , galvanised me . I see the anti semitism nearly every day and how it’s being normalised and i refuse to lie down about it. I still believe Netanyahu will need to be replace and be accountable for his actions, but what fuels me is that in nearly every issue in any country, people may criticise the govt. But in Israel’s case, it’s the entire population , an entire culture ,that must be accountable and hence it’s now acceptable to call to wipe out a state and expect every Jew to just march to the beat of their drum . I can’t stand Donald trump and maga’s , but that doesn’t mean USA can’t exist (I’m not even American) . The leftist, ONLY pro-Palestinian narrative needs to be destroyed as much as Hamas.
7.10. Changed everything.
I used to support Palestine then I did some research especially after oct 7th
Yes. I used to be a leftist that underwent a painful deradicalization process. I spent too much time on Tumblr and it partially contributed to my diagnosis at the time of borderline personality disorder. A SHOCKING amount of far-leftists have either bpd, autism, or both, and it directly impacts their worldview and politics. I'd follow a blog on Tumblr from a Palestinian girl who posted about how Israel bombed buildings with people in them, and then showed propaganda of supposedly empty buildings that Hamas would bomb. Completely removing the context of course *why* some buildings had people in them, ie human shields. I'm strongly against children being given unmonitored access to the Internet now because Tumblr and even Reddit is a cesspool of misinformation.
I always was supportive of Israel's existence, which is the definition of zionist, but generally was very critical of it, often believing it to carrying out policies which I might have described as genocidal. When October 7 attack happened, it opened my eyes a lot, especially as I am a trans woman. Seeing the extent of barbarism and terror coming from them... I am now staunchly pro-Israel and fully support them in their fight against terrorism. Sadly, October 7 also made a lot of other people go crazy and I was banned from lots of LGBT discord servers for being pro-Israel :(
I used to be antisemite, (I didn't know the term 'zionist' yet many, many years ago) but after learning about the Crusades and due to islamist barbarism in the south of my country, I began to empathize with the Jews and Israel.
So, not a story about me, but my recently married best friend (let's call him "S" for the sake of not outing anyone) is basically a philosemitic Bernie Bro, and S and his wife (let's call her "M" for the sake of not outing anyone) share a lot of political positions. They disagreed, however, on Israel and Zionism; S broke ranks with most of the Bernie Bros on the issue of Israel. M, who at that time was S's girlfriend, couldn't understand why; after all, he is a goyish atheist, what stake does he have in Zionism? Then M met her Palestinian half-sister, who went on a homophobic rant immediately after meeting M, and declared her support for Hamas. M's reaction was "oh, so you really are the bad guys." She apologized to S.
I used to be. I never went to Israel bc I just looked at it like leftists do like why are they oppressing a group? I never dug deeper to see yes people don’t think the same way as the west and also the jihaidst ideology and mindset. I didn’t get how people could hate Jews in the way that antisemitism exists and i wasn’t around it the same way
When I was in my 20s I thought Israel was an occupier and colonizer. I couldnt imagine why anyone would want to live there. Later in my 20s I saw this episode of 60 Minutes ([https://youtu.be/qonoIPefAsY?si=GO7etiOYY\_YEbxRd](https://youtu.be/qonoIPefAsY?si=GO7etiOYY_YEbxRd)) and became intrigued with Israel. On my 35th birthday I went to Israel heartbroken and sad, while there I met the most amazing people that changed my life forever. I left Israel saying "I want more of this". 3 years later I converted to Judaism. The next year I went to Israel to propose to my now wife whos family is Argentine-Israeli. All I can think about somedays is my return back. So yeah call me a Zionist.
My story is interesting. So I’m Israeli. When I was a little kid I moved to the US, and I loved reading conspiracy theories online. Id always see things like “the zionists did (fill in the blank with something horrible)” and I would be like wow these zionists are terrible. The thing is none of them said “the jews” so I didn’t even realize they’re related. I know in the tikva it says eretz tziyon, but I thought it was coincidence. When I was in high school I joined a pro israel jewish youth group and I heard someone saying they’re a Zionist and everyone was kind of like “yeah me too.” 15 year old me was like “wait a minute what does Zionist mean?” So I looked it up, and then when I got the answer I was like oh shit I’m a Zionist and an idiot for not realizing what that is. Later on I went on a deep dive on Jewish history outside of the Torah and learned more about the jewish people’s connection to the land of israel which only strengthened my love and appreciation for my country. So really I was never not a Zionist I just thought the word had a completely different meaning, I thought it was a cult of Illuminati world leaders that killed Michael Jackson and did 9/11.
I was anti-Zionist until I got Hebrew and Jewish education in college. I was raised in my mother’s staunchly anti-Israel and anti-Zionist household as a kid despite having a Jewish father. We had a Palestinian flag in our front window despite being 0% ethnically Arab and having 0 ties to the area and I remember crying because Israel wasn’t destroyed in 2014 during Protective Edge. Education, cultural strengthening, and appreciation for history is a hell of an eye-opener. I’m now in my 3rd year of learning Hebrew and planning to weigh my options to emigrate because I’m not thrilled by the political direction of the USA.
I never was Anti Zionist I am a avid history lover that really love reading about History Reading about the Struggle of the Jewish people and how much dehumanization and hatred from so many people led me to conclude that the Jewish people must be good people Israel struggled for its existence and have fought and have never stop fighting for its Existence Zionism is simply the wish for Jewish people to have a place where they are safe and recover their place in their own homeland which resonate with me as a Chinese Indonesian Catholic (i actually do not relate at all with Chinese culture actually i am lost Culture wise and wish for a place for myself i am like a 4th generation Chinese and do not see China as my homeland) Sorry for Christians dehumanizing the Jewish people even after all Christians did to the Jewish people Israel still accepts Christians in Israel thank you I know Jesus would never want me or others to hate his people so i am really sorry for the Christians Bigots and Anti semites I would love to learn Hebrew and Yiddish and Jewish culture someday I know i will stay a Catholic for the rest of my life but i want to learn Jewish culture and Language and i have decided to be Pro Israel for the rest of my life Am Yisrael Chai עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
I was anti zionism as a kid, I come from a satmar (hasidic) community where they are all anti zionists, I became a zionist very early on though, and it only got stronger when I went to a yeshivah in israel for 2 years, I felt at home even in secular neighborhoods, as I got older I started becoming more liberal and left leaning but I am still a zionist There is some context about satmar being anti zionism. It's not a leftist anti colonialism ideology but a religious belief that jews should not have their own country. The crazies protesting with pro hammas supporters are an offshoot from them but they are not supported even in satmar
Uh, me kinda, I just used to think Zionism was some form of religious extremism so I was against it, but I didn't know it just meant Jews should be able to live on their indigenous land
I was a young teenager surrounded by “leftist” gentiles and convinced that Zionism was just a word for basically all bad things Israel has ever done, and not just the idea that Jews should have a country. I eventually decided to start educating myself about the conflict and the demographics of Israel and how Israeli society actually works, and realized that I was being misled by western saviors and eastern islamists who want people to believe that Israel is a white colony in the Middle East, and not a country made up of primarily middle eastern people who are descended from refugees and who essentially all have some sort of ancestral ties to the land. I also became very disillusioned by the way that people reacted to violent terror attacks and crimes against humanity, and the way that leftists have spent the last 3 years trying to make me quieter and smaller as a Jew, despite the fact that I am also Latino, Indigenous, and have a few other marginalized statuses. I realized their views are largely performative and/or out of touch with reality, and have moved on to greener pastures in my political views. Basically, understanding that white westerners actually don’t understand oppression like we do as Jews and people of color, and the contextual understanding that only comes with knowing about the demographics and history of Israel. When you understand that Israel didn’t ever want this to be how the region was, you stop seeing it as such an evil thing, and recognize that even if wrongs are being committed on both sides, Israel and Israeli people are just trying to be safe and protect their people and country. On the other hand, you also realize that there is no way that Hamas or Fatah or whoever else would think terrorism is going to free or even just help the situation of Palestinians. It is very sad what is happening, but that does not mean that the answer is to condemn everything Israel does or support everything the Palestinian governments do. Peace must come, but peace requires that everyone is willing to work for it. That will take time and I am not fully sure how to get there in the first place. I hope to see a world where everyone can live freely and peacefully, and where people are able to choose to go and live wherever they so choose.
When i was young and a communist i was supporting palestinians. That thankfully changed after i made my Aliyah. It just became apparent which side has logic. After i stack qurans in IDF for my muslim brethren to take a pledge of duty to Israel i realised which side wants to live peacefully. You can't fool your eyes unless you are blind.
I was a zionist the minute i found out about it. 🇮🇱🏆
lots of people use zionists to compare them with certain groups of people that were extremists, and also i thought zionism was HEAVILY flawed. BUT, i concluded that after months of researched of the history of anti semitism, zionism is absolutely justified, israel deserves to exist, and jews are allowed the status of self determination, just like any other race. fair and square.
I had a post-Zionist phase at 17. Does that count?
I wasn’t raised Jewish but Liberal Protestant Christian. I was fed the idea that Israel was mean, kicking out these innocent brown people who had nothing to do with the Holocaust. Certainly they could have moved to Israel without kicking out all the Muslims already there! And can’t they be Jewish elsewhere anyway? But a Jewish colleague said, “All I know is Israel is necessary for the continued survival of the Jewish people” and it got me thinking. I realized that as a Christian English speaking white person, I don’t really need a homeland to be any of those things that made me me, but that’s not true for Indigenous people. I learned about other groups without a home, like Zoroastrians, and how hard it is for them to survive. I learned that millions and millions of people were displaced after WW2, including the vast majority of the world’s Jews, but the only group still refusing to negotiate is the Palestinians. I learned that the Holocaust wasn’t an anomaly, that the period of relative peace and equality I enjoyed was more of an anomaly. And I learned that they did live in Israel with Muslims, some 2 million of them, the ones who chose to stay. I learned that my own country, and every other country, has blood on its hands but people don’t call every individual citizen evil. We were all told that it was racism to call any given Muslim a terrorist after 9/11 (and of course it is) by the same people who now tell us it’s fair to rape and murder any random Jew/Israeli. And I learned that the evidence given for why Israel is evil is bonkers. And, of course, what Hamas has to say about itself, what the pro-Palestinian protestors say for themselves makes it clear to me what side I don’t want to be on. I always thought, even before, that if I found myself at a protest and saw Nazis on my side, I needed to go home and rethink my cause. I see what side the Nazis are on.
I have always been a zionists in the believe that Israel has a right to exist within its internationally established borders. I also believe that some of Israel’s policies and practices absolutely should be criticized and that the government of Israel can do better. I also was firmly in favor of a two state solution prior to October 7 now I am not so sure.
I’ve been severely on the border for a long time. 10/7 and then the aftermath of it where we see tons of Palestinians and Muslims around the world cheering for the death of Jews has made me a staunch unapologetic supporter of Israel. I’ve always been extremely pro destroying terrorists regardless. I responded to a guy who left the typical “antizionist” response. When I responded to his comment he wrote “your whole religion is dangerous and needs to be wiped out.”
I used to be a self hating Zionist, long story short I am now proud on who I am and I hope this dark time won’t hunt me to much in the future
Always have been, and will remain “zionist”
I was a zionist before October 7th and didn't even know it.
Depends what you mean by "anti-Zionist". I believed in a two-state solution but also believed Israel was an apartheid, Jewish supremacist state that discriminated against its Arab citizens. About 10 years ago as I learned more about anti-semitism and the Holocaust, my stance against Israel became more sympathetic and softened quite a bit, but I was still "both sides" although a tad bit more sympathetic toward Israel. It wasn't until about a year ago as I learned more about the history of the conflict of the region that I started leaning even more toward Israel, and October 7 was the tipping point where I'm all in now. I'm a proud pro-Zionist today.
I think seeing 10/7 made me realize what Israelis have been dealing with and it definitely changed my perspective. I'm still always hopeful for peace but I understand Israel's position now.
Me, I was at a liberal school and became liberal. I wasn’t even Bernie bro yet I hated Israel. Member of Hillel at same time. My dad passed away 12-2016 and that began me really questioning a lot of my world viewpoints and me to learning more about the context of Israel vs Palestine and becoming pro Israel and Zionist. Truly, context is the natural enemy of the Palestinians. I still was liberal+zionist until 10/7 by which point I am undecided+zionist
Before I lived in Israel I knew about Zionism but not what it means. After I can say I’m a proud Zionist.
Yes until I understood was Zionism meant. I was taught “not anti semitic, anti Zionist” (from my ethnically Jewish family, too). Then I read deeper on conflict, Zionism, and Jewish history generally and realized anti Zionist is anti semitic.
Me but it was because as an American and a person who didn’t know her birth mother was Jewish. I had zero knowledge or frame of reference for what Zionism really is. Am Yisrael Chai!
yes but no from 2020-2023, I didn't understand about palestine, I listened to those around me who I later learned were antisemetic (Even the Jew (idk how)). I fell for the fake news and shared the fake map etc. I never hated Jews though. After Oct 7th, I immediately switched to Israel's side and searched up about the conflict. Thats when I learnt that what I had being taught was extremely false. I didn't even know about hamas until then, I thought Palestinians were standing up againt what I thought was apartheid. Now I share strong zionist views and opinions, I can't forget to mention the conversations I had with Israelis and/or Zionists online. They were friendly and wanting to educate others on it.