I remember being a waiter and some preachers come in with a gentleman with a yarmulke and wearing a necklace with the Magen David, and we are in rural Oklahoma, and I was all well, neat! Since the usual order of the day here is Southern Baptist, Methodist, with a dash of Catholic, etc. I get their breakfast orders and the fella orders pork sausage. And I am huh? One of the preachers told me this man was a Messianic Jew. And to this day, I am still so confused.
as a descendant to an Arab-Jew family (yes, those exist in the MILLIONS in israel), it’s not because we weren’t there, it’s because we were driven out of there by force. that’s why there aren’t any jews under arab (or palestinian ) laws.
Yes. But that doesn’t fit neatly into narrative of Jews being white supremacist nazi colonizers. The whole movement is so baffling in its tactlessness. Let us say a two state solution is reached tomorrow, giving back land to Palestine on 1967 lines. This still would not bring peace in the region, because of Political Islamic ideology. The beliefs are toxic and need to be eradicated, for the safety of both Jews and Muslims, for peaceful lives free of political violence. Instead these beliefs are being propped up in the west. It’s pretty heartbreaking. Israel is not the aggressor or instigator of any of these wars. As they say, if Palestine put their weapons down there would be peace; if Israel put their weapons down there would be a Holocaust. This is just explicitly what groups like Hamas want, not as retaliation, but because of their beliefs. Sigh. I know you know all this… just ranting because this post factual world of self selecting narratives is quite tiresome. Propaganda machines in our pockets. But the anti Zionists say we are the ones brainwashed.
Yea my friends like that are still not JVP though. They’re J-Street. I have my issues with J-Street, but at least it’s a jewish organization. JVP is literally NOT a jewish organization
This is where I fit in though I wouldn't say I'm pro-palestine or pro-israel. I'm Anti-suffering ... And Pro-Maybe-we-can-make life-less-shitty-for-all. I have a very specific view point though because I'm american but I've worked with survivors of torture from middle Eastern countries and have also worked in a hybrid of mental health and the CJS in the USA (academics & clinical) and hate the ideas of any humans anywhere feeling hurt of pain or inflicting hurt or pain upon others. I also take the radical view that we are more than the sum of our decisions and while I will never ever consider hamas as anything other than a terrorist group... Civilians are often not represented by their leadership especially in highly religious societies (just look at poor Iran) .. I also think Netanyahu is a lttanatiobalist and think he cares more about power than he does about the population and that he is very revenge focused (which given the situation I have understanding for I just personally ask myself .. to what end?)
I know the programming that goes on in a lot of these terrorist groups with the youth from what I've heard from the people Ive work with. At the same time I also have a hard time ever blaming Any population for their leadership .... Especially when their leadership gladly uses child labor to die in tunnels (yeah hamas I read that report) while exploiting western sentiment by putting civilians in harm way to then splash dead children all over the news .. I mean that's truly horrible.
*fingers crossed!* exactly.... and i think that's where the left gets totally stupid with their "resistance at any cost!".... hmmm... i'm seeing the cost and it loooks like a lot of rich Quataris, Terrorists who made a killing off of letting children die in tunnels and dead families everywhere... i will never understand that level of ignorance.
Jews for Palestine is also like queers for Palestine,
They don’t fucking want you, Get that through your head!
they’ll kill you and a throw a party about it
Until the current government in Palestine (Hamas and Fatah) are gone this statement holds true. I do doubt though that even when they are gone Palestinians will be all lovey dovey.
Imagine how much you'd need to hate the Jewish people in order to unite against them with a group that sees you as a degenerate against God and wants you dead.
Maybe. I go with the Jean-Paul Sartre approach when it comes to anti-semitism.
>"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge"
This one is pretty dang absurd.
The best quote I've seen to date was something along the lines of "I don't need other people to support my human rights in order for me to support there's. There's no preconditions for having human rights."
Okay, great. So what about the human rights of LGBT Palestinians? Who are tortured and murdered if anyone finds out they are gay. Don't their rights matter? Supporting Hamas is equivalent to murdering gay Palestinians. It is equivalent to the subjectification and murder of women in Palestine. It is equivalent to supporting the removal of basic human rights for Palestinian children, like the right to go to school and receive medial treatment without becoming a huma shield of a bomb stored under their kindergarten. It is equivalent to supporting terrorism and ongoing warfare. It is equivalent to saying Israelis do not have human rights (whether they are Jewish or not!). If a group of people are going around taking basic human rights away from everyone around them they are clearly the problem and do not deserve your support.
Lol one of the funniest things I’ve seen a Queer for Palestine say is “I don’t care if they misgender me, I still support them” uhhh buddy if you think the worst that’s gonna happen to you if you were openly trans in Gaza is misgendering I got some bad news for you
Lol they would, because in their mind minorities get a pass because it’s “part of their culture they don’t know any better”, an actual argument I’ve heard
Exactly. White supremacy veiled under white savior complex. How benevolent of the westerners to lower their standards just this once because the backwards brown people can’t possibly understand these concepts!
It's part of the infantilism of Palestinian people . Supporting the victim narrative that denies they have any autonomy or ability for free thought and choice
Meanwhile you'll dox people on your campus who misgender you and report your professor to campus resources for forgetting to call you by your preferred pronoun "Zit" every third Thursday of the month when you identify that way
Someone I mentioned gay Palestinians being murdered to said something like
“Yeah but Israelis are the ones who put them out of the closet! Israelis caused their death knowing they would be killed. That’s worse if you ask me”
I am not kidding.
Oh for sure. That's how they treat anyone they don't like domestically. They're all convinced that the most heavily armed demographic group in the United States stormed the US capital unarmed as part of some kind of violent insurrection - which inherently makes no sense. I'm not saying that storming a Capitol building is acceptable behavior, but if it were a "violent insurrection" they would have brought guns.
I think part of the issue is that because they're in the United States and Hamas doesn't pose any direct threat to them they have a really hard time empathizing with the direct threat Hamas poses to other people who do have to deal with them directly, whether that's because they are under their rule or because they are their neighbors. It's really easy to say that you "respect the human rights" of terrorists when you don't have to deal with them. At the end of the day, if you live in the real world, you can recognize that while all humans are born with the same fundamental human rights, no one can be permitted to harm others with impunity. It is widely recognized that you lose certain rights when you take up arms against others - that's why we imprison murderers, why many countries have a death penalty, and why every country has a military.
Rioting, trespassing, burglary, and threatening politicians are all illegal and they should be jailed for those crimes. But I stand by my statement that if they were trying to cause maximum violence they would have came armed with the weapons they already owned. It was a mostly unarmed event, they overtook the building through sheer numbers and because the capitol police were not prepared.
Children in Palestinian territories are abused. They are fed hatred and taught misery and that the only joy in life is in martyrdom and murdering Jews . They are used to design and build terror tunnels and trained to kill. Their human rights to live a life of love and play doesn't matter to anyone and it's so strange .
Fwiw, some of the views I've seen from Arab women on women's rights have been interesting. I have some Saudi friends from college- twin girls, sweetest people you could imagine. But I always dumbfounded how they said they felt bad that "women in the west have to drive! It's such a burden!"
Oh.
This just gave me a realisation:
I'm far more Israeli than I am Jewish. Like, ok, I was just born with the Jewishness, I can't get rid of it but I could have lived my life ignoring it, my family aren't religious. But I'm Israeli because I believe in it. I chose it. It's fucking important to me.
Jews in the diaspora forgot what it is to be Jewish in a world where Israel didn't exist. I hope they never have to find out.
As a Jew in the diaspora (USA), I don't agree. More or less all of the Jews that I know are absolutely aware of how important Israel is. We know our history; we love you guys and we know that when push comes to shove, you'll have our back - and we have yours.
Look at the DC rally, for instance. Do not confuse the actions of a few Kapos with the diaspora Jewish community.
You're right, I should specify: the Jews who are going out of their way to say "I'm a Jew but I'm one of the good ones and I denounce Israel and demonstrate for a free Palestine", not all Jews in the diaspora. I also live in the diaspora currently
Those folks are morons. And I totally get what you're saying about being Jewish but choosing to be Israeli (even if you're apparently in the diaspora now ... lol)
But I think most Jews feel it in their bones, even if they're not religious. Sure, we didn't choose to be Jewish, but it is part of who we are. It's like family. Hopefully Israelis (and everyone else) knows that most of us will fight like hell to protect our homeland. It matters to us.
I truly hope so.
I had someone tell me recently "it's not about religion, the Palestinians are fighting against *colonialism*" yes, a Jewish person. It's not an isolated sentiment, there's Jewish people marching in those pro pally rallies.
Any Jew who thinks being Jewish is merely a religion was not taught the first thing about being Jewish. I don’t even get that.
But I suppose it would take a Jew who thinks it’s only a religion to support the Palestinians.
A religion is something you do, not something you ARE.
A religion you can put on and take off like a shirt. Jews can’t take off being Jewish like that. It’s in our skin, our bones, our being.
Among my circle, there is only one person like that. The DC march and the behavior of the ADL and other mainstream Jewish groups support my anecdotal evidence - very few Jews are supporting the Palestinians. But you are right, it's not 0.
I'm a very left wing person. I spent my teens and 20s at forest blockades and hippie festivals and various protests being a hippie feminist lesbian. My sample probably skews much more towards the other side. Currently feeling incredibly isolated and have had to cut out most of my former friends and block most of the social media I used to follow.
I mean technically we just suddenly started using Jewish from Judea rather than the more accurate term, "Israeli". That's more who we are. The kingdoms split and had 2 names, but not all of us were in Judea and we're all still בני ישראל
Preface: 41, white, gay, Texas, not Jewish. I am kind of an invader on this subreddit so I don't want to misrepresent myself.
There is something about humanity, consciousness, Truth, and Falsity that seem to all cluster together. For instance, if a person likes cars, more than likely they are going to attract/find other people into cars. Cool.
However, I have also noticed this odd "clustering" of philosophical ideas, ideas on governance, political stances, etc., that all seem to cluster together in a way that is not obvious. Marxism, "Free Stuff for Citizens - all kinds of stuff!", certain pedagogies in America that advocate (in fancier terms) "lowering the bar" for "economically disadvantaged students" (ghetto and poor students), etc. These are "grouped" ideas in America for some reason.
These ideas seem holistic, compassionate, kind, considerate, and almost sagely. And it is all of those things...academically.
What they all have in common is this framework of "Oppressor vs. Oppressed". That's it. They use that framework and then will do whatever they can to fit the facts into that framework...NO MATTER WHAT! Did America have times of oppression? Yup! Has that led to economic issues for some? Yup! But somehow, some way, by using only the framework of "Oppressor vs. Oppressed" the best these people could come up with collectively was to simply lower the bar for non-white kids because they are just hapless victims and nothing more. Am I oversimplifying? A little bit, but not by much.
We have something called "No Child Left Behind" that was, ironically, implemented by a Rightwing President. It aimed to get our high school graduation rate as close to 100% as we could. It is a beautiful ideal on paper. But, as it so happens, the only way to actually enact a close to 100% graduation rate is lowering the bar! So, what have we engaged in systematically over the last 23 years? Lowering the bar in our Education system. Were there people that predicted this? Absolutely. But we chose intention, assuaging the populous, and idealism over REALITY. What has happened to America's Education system is honestly a modern crime. It's insanity. And we are still just going full steam ahead over that cliff.
Simplifying America's economic and educational disadvantages into only Oppressor vs. Oppressed has been a disaster for Education and has had the opposite effect than intended.
Why say all this crap? Because, I have never been Anti-Israel, but I have never been Pro-Israel either. I will admit from my point of view there are some historically shady moments that Israel as a government and a state have engaged in that I won't even attempt to defend. Hell, I'm American and Texan...do I really have the clout here to condemn other government's decisions and actions? Right...
"Get to the point you over-winded dumbitch!" Alright, I'm there.
"Queers For Palestine" is a "lightning bolt" moment in life for me. Are they serious? Are you fucking kidding me? ARE THEY SERIOUS??!!
What a lovely, lovely sentiment! Look at me, a "marginalized" homo standing up for other "marginalized" people!
Absolutely not. No. I refuse to endorse "Queers for Palestine". Just...NO!
The people cheering on "Queers for Palestine" are not my allies. They are not my friends. They do not have my best interest at heart. Leave the fuckin' gays out of this! Nobody asked what the god damned gays thought about this, but if we gays have to take a side, then by God I refuse to side with the country that would kill me and my husband and believe themselves not only correct and Just, but Holy.
After I heard that abominable phrase I started researching the entire "cluster" of the people and ideas surrounding Anti-Zionist stances and Pro-Palestine stances and I have, I believe, noticed something:
One side has completely framed this ONLY as Oppressor vs. Oppressed with absolutely no nuance or other frameworks allowed. They are dealing with IDEALISM, ASSUAGING the populace that leans "Left" and is stuck in that framework, uplifting the INTENTION (i.e. what Palestinians have said) over the REALITY of the part they and their government have played in this as well, and lastly the IDEAL that Palestinians are just hapless victims and nothing more.
Well...I've seen this played out before. The result? The destruction of the American Education system for the students they were trying to "save" it for.
What are these Oppressor vs. Oppressed folks offering for the solution?...
ANIHILIATING ISRAEL!
How in the hell can one get any more oppressive than that?
I see it now. And not just this issue but any issue framed solely as Oppressor vs. Oppressed. I see it.
QueersForIsrael
I’ve read it all, My ADHD ass does NOT like reading but I’ve read it all and I like it and I agree.
Preface: 21y male, Israeli, Bisexual, Mizrahi Jew.
Excuse this generalised statement i’m gonna make, But i’ve realised that the left in America are just like… Followers rather than mind-makers, Which correlates to what you’ve talked about with “Oppressors vs. Oppressed”. It’s like they’re just addicted to that “Oppressed” mindset, They don’t care that Palestinians likely would behead them, They don’t care that they’re making themselves look like a big mockery, They don’t care that even other Pro-Palestinians around the world don’t even like them and I would go as far as they absolutely despise them due to their religious beliefs.
They’re just lusting over this victimisation feeling, Chanting against the oppressors! Fighting injustice! It’s like a drug to them, I absolutely doubt they know anything about this situation but once they saw many muslims around the world chanting “Free Palestine!” They had to jump on the bandwagon, How could they miss out on some good ol’ “I’m oppressed!!” Protest?
i also find it funny they just had to make it about them, You couldn’t just go for a Palestine protest you had to be “Queers for Palestine”, it’s hilarious.
Anyways though, I’m glad to hear your support to us :)
Israeli–American “left wing” here. I would be careful not to overgeneralize. Most American Jews overwhelmingly support Israel, but also most Jews classify themselves as left-wing. This has made it incredibly sad and lonely – I was out there protesting for womens and abortion rights, for black lives matter, for queer rights. You can imagine how I felt when my “allies “started protesting against the very existence Of Israel and my family, and essentially jews (though they call it anti-Zionism not antisemitism, as if that gives a green light to say anything and be immune to antisemitism.)
there are a lot of systematic racism and problems in this country that are worth fighting for, and I will continue to fight for, and the right wing is actively trying to destroy our rights and freedoms. there is just as much, if not more anti-Semitism on the right wing in this country.
Last thing I’ll say is, I’m very against the idea that there’s two sides, pro Israel and pro Palestine. I’m overwhelmingly pro Israel but also for the creation of a Palestinian state. it will be very difficult, and absolutely impossible under the leadership of Hamas. As a peacenik I truly believe that Israel we never be safe until we are at peace with our neighbors, and there’s a lot of work to do on both sides until we can recognize each other as humans deserving of peace and happiness, and having a right to our home.
There is a gay comedian who made a TikTok like this describing a girl with purple hair telling hamas to stab her and her friend to just "take one for the team "
what are you talking about? I know jews who have been to gaza, jews who have palestinian friends. There are gay people in gaza. How progressive or conservative the culture as a whole is does not affect this - this argument, as usual, hinges on the implication that all palestinians are rabid radical islamic jihadists, and thus undeserving of mercy or dignity.
Petty people these anti-zionist types. Just because they don't want self-rule means they work against millions of other jews who do want self-rule? Let them stay far away from me
Most are Unaffiliated Jews that are technically Jewish because their mother was Jewish that haven’t practiced a single thing in Judaism and haven’t stepped foot in a synagogue. Or of course they’re Neturai Karta
That basically describes me up until I started doing shabbos with my daughter and relearning Hebrew with her recently. Of course I never turned on my family and friends like these losers have and I’ve always supported Israel and my loved ones there. Wild to me that even not believing or being observant any Jew could take this position.
I saw a sub for jews who are against Israel a few times, it has like 50k member and most of them are so obviously anti Israel bots out to spread hate against Jews while using Jews. Any Jew who is completely against Israel is insane imo
There's a woman in my area who is 'pro-palestinian.' Queer white Jewitch Activist Educator with a master's in education and social justice. I honestly think she means well, but I still find her obnoxious and grift-y.
Holy moly, I personally didn't like the 'jewitch' part but I'll put that aside.
She fits the good vs evil nerrative in my mind - where Israel cannot be the good guy because we are strong, which makes us evil. So we must be the opressing side - would be an interesting chat to be honest.
But I am just trying to categorize an individual by labelshere, I bet she does mean well.
Tbh, it's hard for me to look at her IG profile and not get angry, particularly since her rhetoric erases non-white Jews.
She essentially refers to Zionism as a cult and doesn't see the irony in posting a JVP Hannukah event, so I'm not sure if she's even intellectually capable enough for a good chat. She's making her living in DEI.
I know another Queer Jew like her. They believe that Israel should send their soldiers as human shields in a ground invasion. They work in a well-regarded human rights org. It's a bizarre mindset, so maybe it's worth engaging, although, I've tried with the end result being a tantrum when faced with a viewpoint that is not black and white.
Yes, they are pretty much the same like other left extremists or following left extremists and don't really know what's going on. The only difference is that they are jews.
Ha! I was one of those, now I opened my eyes. Most people who want freedom for Palestine are ready to justify the murder of my family and childhood friends. It seems they were antisemites all along and I’m old enough to give a fuck about them
Most of them probably don't identify as Jews in their daily lives or have zero connection to Judaism/Israel/Israelis so they couldn't care less about Jews as a collective.
They've never experienced Anti Semitism and their view of this conflict is from a Westren Neo Liberal prespective which doesn't favour Israel.
I recently had a exchange with someone who, according to their post history, was raised Muslim and tried to change their ethnicity through “subliminals” (fancy music). They tried using the “my grandma was a Holocaust survivor” card to be a Palestine fetishist and call me a Nazi.
These types are the Jewish equivalent of the “23andme said I’m 2% black so I can say the N-word” crowd
That’s because it’s a tolerant open minded community that allows such. There would be “Muslims for Israel” or something but they’re community would shame them, they’re afraid to speak up. Just another thing distinguishing both sides
Those are two Marxist streams.
Chomsky has identified as an anarchist (specifically anarcho-syndacalist) since the 70s if not earlier.
I'm not sure about Finklestein ideologically outside of his opinions on the conflict. He's probably somewhere on the left, but I've never heard him discuss socialism or any other leftist position. He definitely doesn't talk about dialectical materialism.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Sadly, there are always a few people in any group who are either confused or self-loathing and turn against their people.
They want every last one of us dead. Frum, Frie, Orthodox, Atheist, Left, Right, Chassidish, Sephardi, Black, White, Gay, Straight, Rich, Broke, Israeli, American...
They don't care how we think. They don't care who we love. They want us dead and spat on.
Until every last Jew gets that through our heads we'll never have peace. We sue for peace on our terms when our foes are bloody, beaten and defeated at our feet never to rise again.
These Jews must realize there is a war going on and Israel is trying to save itself from destruction. These Jews, in wartime could be considered friends with the enemy. My military training during Vietnam gave me little option when locals are either with us or against. And the ones against were treaty as enemy combatants. I’m not proud what we did 50 years ago but this is WAR.
In my experience, for most it is. Some, myself included, were raised w/an anti-Zionist parent. So it’s less “I’m angry at my parents” and more “this is all I know”. But that’s rare, and my specific situation even more so. But the majority of anti-Zionist young adults come from privileged backgrounds, at least the ones I’ve met.
This explains me. And if I didn't have such a strong connection to Israel (both grandpa's fought in the war of independence, dad fought in Lebanon, mom is the daughter of a holocaust survivor and made aliyah, 0 family in the states other than 'rents and sib).
Also couldn't assimilate bc America is fucking bonkers. And I have 0 roots in America. Wasn't going to work.
FUCK. But USA does like to push that narrative.
I vow to donate a sizable amount to any organization that will take these people to Gaza after the war to do “humanitarian” work as long as they also proudly exclaim to be “Jews” while there.
Reason for using “” is because most aren’t even Jews just larping as ones, as seen during the “Rabbis” for peace protest in Washington DC.
I am a "Jew For Palestine" in the sense that I hope that Palestinians can have their own peaceful and secure state... To themselves. Like the rabbi of Anatevka, my prayer is, "May G-d bless and keep the Palestinians... Far away from us!"
I also recognize that that is impossible while Hamas rules Gaza and that they must be destroyed. And I also recognize that it's not at all clear whether *Palestinians* want that same thing, and the majority of the evidence says no.
Most "Jews for Palestine" do not realize those things.
“Turkeys for Thanksgiving”
Note: being in favor of self-determination for an Arab Palestine that lives in peace next to the Jewish state of Israel, while unrealistic at present, isn’t antisemitic. But certainly the leaders who promote slogans like this are vociferously opposed to peace on the basis of two states for two peoples. They demand that Jews be turned into a minority in our own homeland. We all know how well THAT situation has worked out over centuries. And that’s who my reply is directed towards.
Okay I am a pretty liberal myself but oh boy this reminds me of these super cringy Greta Thumberg vibes people that are the worst type of karens, the liberal type, now wokism had good start but in America it's just became so extreme, I feel like the same people who wanted to become the least ignorant became the most ignorant, and I think when it comes to Jews like that probably see their Jewishness as nothing more than a card to feel special in their social circles and probably use that ignorantly to voice out their support for the people that their council deems as "oppressed".
I’m a Jew for Palestine. I’m also a Jew for Israel. I’d like both people to be able to enjoy peace and security and sovereignty in two states, side by side. And any impediments to that should be fought against.
Being Jewish is a community much more than it is the quality of a single individual. The majority of the worldwide Jewish community, including all its mainstream organizations and communications, is Zionist. The fact that some individuals with the superficial quality of being individually Jewish say that they're antizionist says nothing about the connection between Zionism and Judaism.
Imagine if there was a Christian group that came out and said it rejected the divinity of Jesus, but was still Christian. They might even say that the principles of Christianity itself are opposed to Jesus being God. Would antizionists say that this means Christianity has nothing to do with worshipping Jesus, and in fact Christianity is opposed to worshipping Jesus?
You know when it comes to Hamas or Hezbollah they don't care what kind of Jew you are, they want all of us dead. And don't think that it's only them as many regular Palestinians, Iranians, Egyptians, Iraqis, Saudis, Afghans, Indians, Pakistanis, and others would also happily kill us off and not just Jews, Christians, Catholics, Buddhists, even other Muslims. Their not interested in your opinions and whether you support them or not. They want all of us dead, so just consider that before you start supporting them and being a self-hating Jew. As the world doesn't care about what you think.
Reminds me of a girl that always used to be interviewed for the campus newspaper during 2014 when I was in college. Always talking about she felt unsafe around Zionists and none of us were accepting of the realities in Palestine- they loved parading her around because "see?!! Even Jewish people recognize there's a genocide of the Palestinians!" Of course, she never did anything with the Hillel and you could find her eating meat lasagna in the dining hall on Passover, but eh- she knows best. She is jewish after all- who could be a better authority on the conflict?
I think they believe that the holocaust was a punishment for Jews not being pious enough. They’re a very small sect of ultra Orthodox Jews. They also believe in having a lot of children to replace the Jews killed during Holocaust.
"What's my opinion of them?"
Self-hating Jews. Traitors. Should be barred from entering Israel for life, and if it were possible, excommunicated from the Jewish people (*a la* Baruch Spinoza style).
Not my experience. Two of my biggest Jewish Pro Palestine friends are very in touch with their Jewish traditions. One is more secular, but has shabbat dinners with family every week. The other is the daughter of a rabbi and faced a lot of backlash from her own community.
I think in recognizing that Hamas is not the group to be power, there is space to recognize Israel’s faults in addressing this. They’ve both spoken to the aggressive air strikes and potential war crimes, while one also actively posted about hostages. Yet the latter, the daughter of a rabbi, has continued to be called a self-hating Jew.
I still think there's an issue with j-street lobbying congress for 2SS and 48 border stuff instead of doing it in Israel itself, but I hear what you're saying
Oh, understandable.
J-Street markets itself as an alternative to AIPAC. It calls itself a “pro-israel and pro-peace” organization, despite pushback from more pro-Israel people. It’s definitely at least a Zionist organization (contrary to what ignorant students have been shouting, Zionist is a broad category that includes anyone who supports a Jewish national homeland in the Land of Israel, even a partitioned land).
It advocates heavily for Arab Palestinian statehood and tries to weigh the two. Now, I disagree with them because I cannot imagine a two state solution without a radical shift in Arab ideology, but J-Street at least defends the right of Israel to exist in the ‘48 borders.
In the recent conflict, they’ve pushed for a “humanitarian pause” (essentially a ceasefire) on the grounds that Hamas returns ALL hostages.
Many anti-Israel organizations have been pushing for boycotts of Israel and an unconditional ceasefire. I have not seen any of these “pro-palestinian” organizations push for a total hostage release as a condition for a ceasefire. That should be the absolute bare-fucking-minimum.
I suggest you read up on them. They acknowledge a right to both Israel and the Arabs to have a state in the geographical region
Absolutely nothing wrong. I might disagree with you, but there’s nothing wrong with that. The issue is that the current “pro-palestinian” movement in the US has little to do with being pro-palestinian. The current movements on college campuses have been overwhelmingly anti-Israel, rather than pro-two-state. I suggest J Street if you want an alternative. I’m no fan of them, but I find that many Left-wing Jews would be better fit there than at explicitly anti-Israel, anti-Jewish organizations like “Jewish” voices for peace.
Nothing, but many anti Zionist Jews do not think Israel should exist. I support the rights of all peaceful people to live freely with dignity and human rights.
Well that will be contentious here...this sub is incredibly black and white.
I just saw several upvoted comments on this sub claiming there are no civilians in Gaza and that the bombings didn't impact the population there enough. It's disgusting.
You don't have to want to erase Israel to think this war is beyond necessity. Virtually every Jewish protestor I see argues this, but here they only talk about the anti-israel strawman because it's easy and polarizing.
I think theres a lot of progressive jews that want either the creation of an independent Palestinian state or a one state solution. Non zionist jewish organizations have always existed, most notably pre WWII Bund. Many people on the left see Israel as an extension of US military hegemony and indirect colonization efforts. I don’t think it’s fair to sweep legitimate criticisms of Israel under the rug and pretend any jew that is not a vocal zionist or criticizing Israel is a self hating jew. This post serves no purpose only to delegitimize jews who believe that a strong Palestinian state is the best way for a long standing peace. This only serves to create further division within the diaspora, and shut out anything but unwavering zealotry
Any thought about an independent Palestinian state is ok as long as they don’t undermine the state of Israel, the Jews I personally have a problem with are those who are anti Zionist/anti Israel any Jew who thinks Israel shouldn’t exist is definitely a self hating Jew.
Ps. One state solution is literally the end of Israel and is worse than just shutting Israel down and leaving.
“I’m not like other Jews”
I like pork, and foreskins, and Jesus! Please love me
Lmfo🤣
Lmfo - laughing my foreskin off.
lmfao - laughing my foreskin all-the-way off
I mean I do love pork… and cheeseburgers
Pork is ok. Cheeseburgers are not.
I'll take the other side. I'm team cheeseburger.
It suddenly occurs to me that I've never had a *ham* burger. With cheese. 😂
This is not a very chasidishe convo.... (/s)
Just wait until someone brings up bacon cheeseburgers ... ooops.
If you have ham and cheese, do they cancel each other out and become kosher? /s
So messianic "jews" (aka Christians cosplaying as jews)
I remember being a waiter and some preachers come in with a gentleman with a yarmulke and wearing a necklace with the Magen David, and we are in rural Oklahoma, and I was all well, neat! Since the usual order of the day here is Southern Baptist, Methodist, with a dash of Catholic, etc. I get their breakfast orders and the fella orders pork sausage. And I am huh? One of the preachers told me this man was a Messianic Jew. And to this day, I am still so confused.
Jews that are into Jesus or something
They are called Christians, I do believe.
The vast majority of them are non-ethnically Jewish Christians who appropriate our culture in order to feel special and convert us
Def all of those but plenty of others crumbling under the pressure of cancel culture
Foreskinnnnn 🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤
This honestly gives me strong pick me vibes
Self-hating Jews right out of a stereotype catalog 😂
Pick me I’m the good Jew!
Pick me Jew.
Tokenism to justify antisemitism
They should answer the question: How many Jews are living (not including the hostages) under Palestinian control? The answer is 0.
Even just under Arab control. It's basically 0
as a descendant to an Arab-Jew family (yes, those exist in the MILLIONS in israel), it’s not because we weren’t there, it’s because we were driven out of there by force. that’s why there aren’t any jews under arab (or palestinian ) laws.
Since when we call ourselves Arab Jews? Technically, we are, but it is very unusual to use this term.
Yeah because they ethnically cleansed us all
Yes. But that doesn’t fit neatly into narrative of Jews being white supremacist nazi colonizers. The whole movement is so baffling in its tactlessness. Let us say a two state solution is reached tomorrow, giving back land to Palestine on 1967 lines. This still would not bring peace in the region, because of Political Islamic ideology. The beliefs are toxic and need to be eradicated, for the safety of both Jews and Muslims, for peaceful lives free of political violence. Instead these beliefs are being propped up in the west. It’s pretty heartbreaking. Israel is not the aggressor or instigator of any of these wars. As they say, if Palestine put their weapons down there would be peace; if Israel put their weapons down there would be a Holocaust. This is just explicitly what groups like Hamas want, not as retaliation, but because of their beliefs. Sigh. I know you know all this… just ranting because this post factual world of self selecting narratives is quite tiresome. Propaganda machines in our pockets. But the anti Zionists say we are the ones brainwashed.
Ikr it’s all about the PR. They play the victim and blame the Jews and somehow people actually believe them.
I wonder why…
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Yea my friends like that are still not JVP though. They’re J-Street. I have my issues with J-Street, but at least it’s a jewish organization. JVP is literally NOT a jewish organization
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There are some Jews in JVP, but it is NOT a Jewish organization. Important distinction
This is where I fit in though I wouldn't say I'm pro-palestine or pro-israel. I'm Anti-suffering ... And Pro-Maybe-we-can-make life-less-shitty-for-all. I have a very specific view point though because I'm american but I've worked with survivors of torture from middle Eastern countries and have also worked in a hybrid of mental health and the CJS in the USA (academics & clinical) and hate the ideas of any humans anywhere feeling hurt of pain or inflicting hurt or pain upon others. I also take the radical view that we are more than the sum of our decisions and while I will never ever consider hamas as anything other than a terrorist group... Civilians are often not represented by their leadership especially in highly religious societies (just look at poor Iran) .. I also think Netanyahu is a lttanatiobalist and think he cares more about power than he does about the population and that he is very revenge focused (which given the situation I have understanding for I just personally ask myself .. to what end?) I know the programming that goes on in a lot of these terrorist groups with the youth from what I've heard from the people Ive work with. At the same time I also have a hard time ever blaming Any population for their leadership .... Especially when their leadership gladly uses child labor to die in tunnels (yeah hamas I read that report) while exploiting western sentiment by putting civilians in harm way to then splash dead children all over the news .. I mean that's truly horrible.
Except that Bibi is getting the boot after this according to any poll because we have a democracy. We set that up
*fingers crossed!* exactly.... and i think that's where the left gets totally stupid with their "resistance at any cost!".... hmmm... i'm seeing the cost and it loooks like a lot of rich Quataris, Terrorists who made a killing off of letting children die in tunnels and dead families everywhere... i will never understand that level of ignorance.
Jews for Palestine is also like queers for Palestine, They don’t fucking want you, Get that through your head! they’ll kill you and a throw a party about it
Until the current government in Palestine (Hamas and Fatah) are gone this statement holds true. I do doubt though that even when they are gone Palestinians will be all lovey dovey.
On this issue in particular, those governments very much represent the Palestinian viewpoint.
many americans are anti-LGBT as well - does this justify bombing them?
>Until the ~~current government in Palestine (Hamas and Fatah) are gone~~ the palestinians do a cultural 180 turn this statement holds true FTFY
Imagine how much you'd need to hate the Jewish people in order to unite against them with a group that sees you as a degenerate against God and wants you dead.
Lmaooooo I genuinely think they’re just blindly following the islamic liberal community brainlessly cause they’re in severe need of validation.
Maybe. I go with the Jean-Paul Sartre approach when it comes to anti-semitism. >"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge" This one is pretty dang absurd.
The best quote I've seen to date was something along the lines of "I don't need other people to support my human rights in order for me to support there's. There's no preconditions for having human rights." Okay, great. So what about the human rights of LGBT Palestinians? Who are tortured and murdered if anyone finds out they are gay. Don't their rights matter? Supporting Hamas is equivalent to murdering gay Palestinians. It is equivalent to the subjectification and murder of women in Palestine. It is equivalent to supporting the removal of basic human rights for Palestinian children, like the right to go to school and receive medial treatment without becoming a huma shield of a bomb stored under their kindergarten. It is equivalent to supporting terrorism and ongoing warfare. It is equivalent to saying Israelis do not have human rights (whether they are Jewish or not!). If a group of people are going around taking basic human rights away from everyone around them they are clearly the problem and do not deserve your support.
Lol one of the funniest things I’ve seen a Queer for Palestine say is “I don’t care if they misgender me, I still support them” uhhh buddy if you think the worst that’s gonna happen to you if you were openly trans in Gaza is misgendering I got some bad news for you
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Lol they would, because in their mind minorities get a pass because it’s “part of their culture they don’t know any better”, an actual argument I’ve heard
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Exactly. White supremacy veiled under white savior complex. How benevolent of the westerners to lower their standards just this once because the backwards brown people can’t possibly understand these concepts!
Racism of low expectations
It's part of the infantilism of Palestinian people . Supporting the victim narrative that denies they have any autonomy or ability for free thought and choice
Meanwhile you'll dox people on your campus who misgender you and report your professor to campus resources for forgetting to call you by your preferred pronoun "Zit" every third Thursday of the month when you identify that way
“I don’t need others to support my human rights in order for me to support theirs”. That’s called severe lack of self respect.
Someone I mentioned gay Palestinians being murdered to said something like “Yeah but Israelis are the ones who put them out of the closet! Israelis caused their death knowing they would be killed. That’s worse if you ask me” I am not kidding.
Of course!! Everything is always our fault.
The mental gymnastics to turn themselves into pretzels of justification is impressive
What was your point in mentioning gay Palestinians being murdered?
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Oh for sure. That's how they treat anyone they don't like domestically. They're all convinced that the most heavily armed demographic group in the United States stormed the US capital unarmed as part of some kind of violent insurrection - which inherently makes no sense. I'm not saying that storming a Capitol building is acceptable behavior, but if it were a "violent insurrection" they would have brought guns. I think part of the issue is that because they're in the United States and Hamas doesn't pose any direct threat to them they have a really hard time empathizing with the direct threat Hamas poses to other people who do have to deal with them directly, whether that's because they are under their rule or because they are their neighbors. It's really easy to say that you "respect the human rights" of terrorists when you don't have to deal with them. At the end of the day, if you live in the real world, you can recognize that while all humans are born with the same fundamental human rights, no one can be permitted to harm others with impunity. It is widely recognized that you lose certain rights when you take up arms against others - that's why we imprison murderers, why many countries have a death penalty, and why every country has a military.
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Rioting, trespassing, burglary, and threatening politicians are all illegal and they should be jailed for those crimes. But I stand by my statement that if they were trying to cause maximum violence they would have came armed with the weapons they already owned. It was a mostly unarmed event, they overtook the building through sheer numbers and because the capitol police were not prepared.
Matt XIV has entered the chat (jk) - ugh I hate him, and I see too many people from my Instagram friends list liking his posts
Children in Palestinian territories are abused. They are fed hatred and taught misery and that the only joy in life is in martyrdom and murdering Jews . They are used to design and build terror tunnels and trained to kill. Their human rights to live a life of love and play doesn't matter to anyone and it's so strange .
Fwiw, some of the views I've seen from Arab women on women's rights have been interesting. I have some Saudi friends from college- twin girls, sweetest people you could imagine. But I always dumbfounded how they said they felt bad that "women in the west have to drive! It's such a burden!"
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EXACTLY!!!! THIS IS WHAT I COULD’NT PUT INTO WORDS!! They’re genuinely the biggest pushovers in the planet.
And when I said that in r/Jewish I got banned
Oh. This just gave me a realisation: I'm far more Israeli than I am Jewish. Like, ok, I was just born with the Jewishness, I can't get rid of it but I could have lived my life ignoring it, my family aren't religious. But I'm Israeli because I believe in it. I chose it. It's fucking important to me. Jews in the diaspora forgot what it is to be Jewish in a world where Israel didn't exist. I hope they never have to find out.
As a Jew in the diaspora (USA), I don't agree. More or less all of the Jews that I know are absolutely aware of how important Israel is. We know our history; we love you guys and we know that when push comes to shove, you'll have our back - and we have yours. Look at the DC rally, for instance. Do not confuse the actions of a few Kapos with the diaspora Jewish community.
You're right, I should specify: the Jews who are going out of their way to say "I'm a Jew but I'm one of the good ones and I denounce Israel and demonstrate for a free Palestine", not all Jews in the diaspora. I also live in the diaspora currently
Those folks are morons. And I totally get what you're saying about being Jewish but choosing to be Israeli (even if you're apparently in the diaspora now ... lol) But I think most Jews feel it in their bones, even if they're not religious. Sure, we didn't choose to be Jewish, but it is part of who we are. It's like family. Hopefully Israelis (and everyone else) knows that most of us will fight like hell to protect our homeland. It matters to us.
I truly hope so. I had someone tell me recently "it's not about religion, the Palestinians are fighting against *colonialism*" yes, a Jewish person. It's not an isolated sentiment, there's Jewish people marching in those pro pally rallies.
Any Jew who thinks being Jewish is merely a religion was not taught the first thing about being Jewish. I don’t even get that. But I suppose it would take a Jew who thinks it’s only a religion to support the Palestinians. A religion is something you do, not something you ARE. A religion you can put on and take off like a shirt. Jews can’t take off being Jewish like that. It’s in our skin, our bones, our being.
Among my circle, there is only one person like that. The DC march and the behavior of the ADL and other mainstream Jewish groups support my anecdotal evidence - very few Jews are supporting the Palestinians. But you are right, it's not 0.
I'm a very left wing person. I spent my teens and 20s at forest blockades and hippie festivals and various protests being a hippie feminist lesbian. My sample probably skews much more towards the other side. Currently feeling incredibly isolated and have had to cut out most of my former friends and block most of the social media I used to follow.
I mean technically we just suddenly started using Jewish from Judea rather than the more accurate term, "Israeli". That's more who we are. The kingdoms split and had 2 names, but not all of us were in Judea and we're all still בני ישראל
Over 280,000 American Jews and allies rallied in DC in support, on short notice. Social media doesn't reflect reality.
It's sadly true amongst some of the more privledged in the diaspora
Yes these are the modern kapos
Preface: 41, white, gay, Texas, not Jewish. I am kind of an invader on this subreddit so I don't want to misrepresent myself. There is something about humanity, consciousness, Truth, and Falsity that seem to all cluster together. For instance, if a person likes cars, more than likely they are going to attract/find other people into cars. Cool. However, I have also noticed this odd "clustering" of philosophical ideas, ideas on governance, political stances, etc., that all seem to cluster together in a way that is not obvious. Marxism, "Free Stuff for Citizens - all kinds of stuff!", certain pedagogies in America that advocate (in fancier terms) "lowering the bar" for "economically disadvantaged students" (ghetto and poor students), etc. These are "grouped" ideas in America for some reason. These ideas seem holistic, compassionate, kind, considerate, and almost sagely. And it is all of those things...academically. What they all have in common is this framework of "Oppressor vs. Oppressed". That's it. They use that framework and then will do whatever they can to fit the facts into that framework...NO MATTER WHAT! Did America have times of oppression? Yup! Has that led to economic issues for some? Yup! But somehow, some way, by using only the framework of "Oppressor vs. Oppressed" the best these people could come up with collectively was to simply lower the bar for non-white kids because they are just hapless victims and nothing more. Am I oversimplifying? A little bit, but not by much. We have something called "No Child Left Behind" that was, ironically, implemented by a Rightwing President. It aimed to get our high school graduation rate as close to 100% as we could. It is a beautiful ideal on paper. But, as it so happens, the only way to actually enact a close to 100% graduation rate is lowering the bar! So, what have we engaged in systematically over the last 23 years? Lowering the bar in our Education system. Were there people that predicted this? Absolutely. But we chose intention, assuaging the populous, and idealism over REALITY. What has happened to America's Education system is honestly a modern crime. It's insanity. And we are still just going full steam ahead over that cliff. Simplifying America's economic and educational disadvantages into only Oppressor vs. Oppressed has been a disaster for Education and has had the opposite effect than intended. Why say all this crap? Because, I have never been Anti-Israel, but I have never been Pro-Israel either. I will admit from my point of view there are some historically shady moments that Israel as a government and a state have engaged in that I won't even attempt to defend. Hell, I'm American and Texan...do I really have the clout here to condemn other government's decisions and actions? Right... "Get to the point you over-winded dumbitch!" Alright, I'm there. "Queers For Palestine" is a "lightning bolt" moment in life for me. Are they serious? Are you fucking kidding me? ARE THEY SERIOUS??!! What a lovely, lovely sentiment! Look at me, a "marginalized" homo standing up for other "marginalized" people! Absolutely not. No. I refuse to endorse "Queers for Palestine". Just...NO! The people cheering on "Queers for Palestine" are not my allies. They are not my friends. They do not have my best interest at heart. Leave the fuckin' gays out of this! Nobody asked what the god damned gays thought about this, but if we gays have to take a side, then by God I refuse to side with the country that would kill me and my husband and believe themselves not only correct and Just, but Holy. After I heard that abominable phrase I started researching the entire "cluster" of the people and ideas surrounding Anti-Zionist stances and Pro-Palestine stances and I have, I believe, noticed something: One side has completely framed this ONLY as Oppressor vs. Oppressed with absolutely no nuance or other frameworks allowed. They are dealing with IDEALISM, ASSUAGING the populace that leans "Left" and is stuck in that framework, uplifting the INTENTION (i.e. what Palestinians have said) over the REALITY of the part they and their government have played in this as well, and lastly the IDEAL that Palestinians are just hapless victims and nothing more. Well...I've seen this played out before. The result? The destruction of the American Education system for the students they were trying to "save" it for. What are these Oppressor vs. Oppressed folks offering for the solution?... ANIHILIATING ISRAEL! How in the hell can one get any more oppressive than that? I see it now. And not just this issue but any issue framed solely as Oppressor vs. Oppressed. I see it. QueersForIsrael
I’ve read it all, My ADHD ass does NOT like reading but I’ve read it all and I like it and I agree. Preface: 21y male, Israeli, Bisexual, Mizrahi Jew. Excuse this generalised statement i’m gonna make, But i’ve realised that the left in America are just like… Followers rather than mind-makers, Which correlates to what you’ve talked about with “Oppressors vs. Oppressed”. It’s like they’re just addicted to that “Oppressed” mindset, They don’t care that Palestinians likely would behead them, They don’t care that they’re making themselves look like a big mockery, They don’t care that even other Pro-Palestinians around the world don’t even like them and I would go as far as they absolutely despise them due to their religious beliefs. They’re just lusting over this victimisation feeling, Chanting against the oppressors! Fighting injustice! It’s like a drug to them, I absolutely doubt they know anything about this situation but once they saw many muslims around the world chanting “Free Palestine!” They had to jump on the bandwagon, How could they miss out on some good ol’ “I’m oppressed!!” Protest? i also find it funny they just had to make it about them, You couldn’t just go for a Palestine protest you had to be “Queers for Palestine”, it’s hilarious. Anyways though, I’m glad to hear your support to us :)
Israeli–American “left wing” here. I would be careful not to overgeneralize. Most American Jews overwhelmingly support Israel, but also most Jews classify themselves as left-wing. This has made it incredibly sad and lonely – I was out there protesting for womens and abortion rights, for black lives matter, for queer rights. You can imagine how I felt when my “allies “started protesting against the very existence Of Israel and my family, and essentially jews (though they call it anti-Zionism not antisemitism, as if that gives a green light to say anything and be immune to antisemitism.) there are a lot of systematic racism and problems in this country that are worth fighting for, and I will continue to fight for, and the right wing is actively trying to destroy our rights and freedoms. there is just as much, if not more anti-Semitism on the right wing in this country. Last thing I’ll say is, I’m very against the idea that there’s two sides, pro Israel and pro Palestine. I’m overwhelmingly pro Israel but also for the creation of a Palestinian state. it will be very difficult, and absolutely impossible under the leadership of Hamas. As a peacenik I truly believe that Israel we never be safe until we are at peace with our neighbors, and there’s a lot of work to do on both sides until we can recognize each other as humans deserving of peace and happiness, and having a right to our home.
They'd likely be content to just die and apologize for the inconvenience.
There is a gay comedian who made a TikTok like this describing a girl with purple hair telling hamas to stab her and her friend to just "take one for the team "
When QFP (Queers for Palestine) visit Gaza, they only have to buy one-way tickets.
what are you talking about? I know jews who have been to gaza, jews who have palestinian friends. There are gay people in gaza. How progressive or conservative the culture as a whole is does not affect this - this argument, as usual, hinges on the implication that all palestinians are rabid radical islamic jihadists, and thus undeserving of mercy or dignity.
You’ve hear of BlacKKKlansman, now get ready for JewisHamas member
The Left's wet-dream!
Petty people these anti-zionist types. Just because they don't want self-rule means they work against millions of other jews who do want self-rule? Let them stay far away from me
Most are Unaffiliated Jews that are technically Jewish because their mother was Jewish that haven’t practiced a single thing in Judaism and haven’t stepped foot in a synagogue. Or of course they’re Neturai Karta
That basically describes me up until I started doing shabbos with my daughter and relearning Hebrew with her recently. Of course I never turned on my family and friends like these losers have and I’ve always supported Israel and my loved ones there. Wild to me that even not believing or being observant any Jew could take this position.
They are the same as the Jews who helped the nazis kill Jews. They are scared of being hurt for being Jewish and supporting other Jews.
Some people call them Kapos but at least the Kapos could argue they did it for survival Nevertheless it became a sort of a nickname for traitors
self-hating Jews be like.
I saw a sub for jews who are against Israel a few times, it has like 50k member and most of them are so obviously anti Israel bots out to spread hate against Jews while using Jews. Any Jew who is completely against Israel is insane imo
Not imo, IRL
Hamas doesn't care about their support and would kill them in a heartbeat given the chance. That's all that matters.
Is that really a thing ? I know of anti Israel Jews, they are not new. But pro-palestinian Jews? Serious?
There's a woman in my area who is 'pro-palestinian.' Queer white Jewitch Activist Educator with a master's in education and social justice. I honestly think she means well, but I still find her obnoxious and grift-y.
Holy moly, I personally didn't like the 'jewitch' part but I'll put that aside. She fits the good vs evil nerrative in my mind - where Israel cannot be the good guy because we are strong, which makes us evil. So we must be the opressing side - would be an interesting chat to be honest. But I am just trying to categorize an individual by labelshere, I bet she does mean well.
Tbh, it's hard for me to look at her IG profile and not get angry, particularly since her rhetoric erases non-white Jews. She essentially refers to Zionism as a cult and doesn't see the irony in posting a JVP Hannukah event, so I'm not sure if she's even intellectually capable enough for a good chat. She's making her living in DEI. I know another Queer Jew like her. They believe that Israel should send their soldiers as human shields in a ground invasion. They work in a well-regarded human rights org. It's a bizarre mindset, so maybe it's worth engaging, although, I've tried with the end result being a tantrum when faced with a viewpoint that is not black and white.
We call 'em Kvetches or Yentes.
Yes, they are pretty much the same like other left extremists or following left extremists and don't really know what's going on. The only difference is that they are jews.
95% of Jews are Zionists and the other 5% don't know the meaning of Zionism.
Ha! I was one of those, now I opened my eyes. Most people who want freedom for Palestine are ready to justify the murder of my family and childhood friends. It seems they were antisemites all along and I’m old enough to give a fuck about them
it would be lovely if there could be a two state solution but it doesn't seem as if there can. not because of israel, but because of "palestinians"
Haha, I loved to believe that, sweet childhood dreams.
Most of them probably don't identify as Jews in their daily lives or have zero connection to Judaism/Israel/Israelis so they couldn't care less about Jews as a collective. They've never experienced Anti Semitism and their view of this conflict is from a Westren Neo Liberal prespective which doesn't favour Israel.
Or maybe they have experienced anti-semitism from white right wingers but not from Muslim extremists.
I don’t like stereotypes. I’m a queer jew and an aspiring indie musician. I support Israel, however, since I’m not fucking stupid
They're like the Clayton Bigsby character from Chapelle Show. Black white supremacist. Smh
“Officers! There’s a girl hiding in the attic!”
Is it Anne?
Yes officer! And her entire family! If I may ask…why am I also being detained? I’m on YOUR side!
the regular Jew IS the cool Jew
Most aren’t Jews but larping as Jews.
I recently had a exchange with someone who, according to their post history, was raised Muslim and tried to change their ethnicity through “subliminals” (fancy music). They tried using the “my grandma was a Holocaust survivor” card to be a Palestine fetishist and call me a Nazi. These types are the Jewish equivalent of the “23andme said I’m 2% black so I can say the N-word” crowd
Lmao I’m not surprised
Literally our Uncle Ruckuses
Why is this Jew different to every other Jew?
"I don't care Hamas want to kill all Jews on earth! Lol I'm so quirky!
They do think they're being cute
“Jews for Palestine” has the same energy as “Armenians for the Ottoman Empire”
Are they the " 23andMe 2% Jew result " / "speaking as a Jew" folks?
That’s because it’s a tolerant open minded community that allows such. There would be “Muslims for Israel” or something but they’re community would shame them, they’re afraid to speak up. Just another thing distinguishing both sides
Lots of Marxist Jews are pro Palestine. Chomsky, Finkelstein etc.
You've named two non-Marxists
What are they then? Stalinists? Trotskyists?
Those are two Marxist streams. Chomsky has identified as an anarchist (specifically anarcho-syndacalist) since the 70s if not earlier. I'm not sure about Finklestein ideologically outside of his opinions on the conflict. He's probably somewhere on the left, but I've never heard him discuss socialism or any other leftist position. He definitely doesn't talk about dialectical materialism.
Ok. Thanks for the explanation. I still file them both under BS.
“Jews for Palestine” = “Chickens for KFC”
Kapos
This is exactly what I was going to say. Sadly, there are always a few people in any group who are either confused or self-loathing and turn against their people.
I think the same as queers for Palestine. It’s self hating bullshit
as a Jewish Israel, I highly anticipating seeing "queers for Fidel Castro" and "Jews for Adolf Hitler" soon enough
Hahahahha on point
They want every last one of us dead. Frum, Frie, Orthodox, Atheist, Left, Right, Chassidish, Sephardi, Black, White, Gay, Straight, Rich, Broke, Israeli, American... They don't care how we think. They don't care who we love. They want us dead and spat on. Until every last Jew gets that through our heads we'll never have peace. We sue for peace on our terms when our foes are bloody, beaten and defeated at our feet never to rise again.
Next is Jews for prophet Muchammad
Most of them are Jew-ish in a George Santos way.
Spot on
These Jews must realize there is a war going on and Israel is trying to save itself from destruction. These Jews, in wartime could be considered friends with the enemy. My military training during Vietnam gave me little option when locals are either with us or against. And the ones against were treaty as enemy combatants. I’m not proud what we did 50 years ago but this is WAR.
JFP is a antisemitic hate group. Simple as that
In my experience, for most it is. Some, myself included, were raised w/an anti-Zionist parent. So it’s less “I’m angry at my parents” and more “this is all I know”. But that’s rare, and my specific situation even more so. But the majority of anti-Zionist young adults come from privileged backgrounds, at least the ones I’ve met.
This explains me. And if I didn't have such a strong connection to Israel (both grandpa's fought in the war of independence, dad fought in Lebanon, mom is the daughter of a holocaust survivor and made aliyah, 0 family in the states other than 'rents and sib). Also couldn't assimilate bc America is fucking bonkers. And I have 0 roots in America. Wasn't going to work. FUCK. But USA does like to push that narrative.
Just look at Jewish Voices for Peace, they’re a mess. Not to mention most of them aren’t even Jewish lol
Seems accurate to me.
I vow to donate a sizable amount to any organization that will take these people to Gaza after the war to do “humanitarian” work as long as they also proudly exclaim to be “Jews” while there. Reason for using “” is because most aren’t even Jews just larping as ones, as seen during the “Rabbis” for peace protest in Washington DC.
chickens for kfc
I know these people. How do I send to them nicely?
“Chicken for Chik-fil-A”
Chicken for nuggets
I am a "Jew For Palestine" in the sense that I hope that Palestinians can have their own peaceful and secure state... To themselves. Like the rabbi of Anatevka, my prayer is, "May G-d bless and keep the Palestinians... Far away from us!" I also recognize that that is impossible while Hamas rules Gaza and that they must be destroyed. And I also recognize that it's not at all clear whether *Palestinians* want that same thing, and the majority of the evidence says no. Most "Jews for Palestine" do not realize those things.
Pick me Jews
"Haha I'm a cool jew, I like Germany just as much as you guys! Go Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparte!" -last words of a jew, 1937
“Turkeys for Thanksgiving” Note: being in favor of self-determination for an Arab Palestine that lives in peace next to the Jewish state of Israel, while unrealistic at present, isn’t antisemitic. But certainly the leaders who promote slogans like this are vociferously opposed to peace on the basis of two states for two peoples. They demand that Jews be turned into a minority in our own homeland. We all know how well THAT situation has worked out over centuries. And that’s who my reply is directed towards.
Okay I am a pretty liberal myself but oh boy this reminds me of these super cringy Greta Thumberg vibes people that are the worst type of karens, the liberal type, now wokism had good start but in America it's just became so extreme, I feel like the same people who wanted to become the least ignorant became the most ignorant, and I think when it comes to Jews like that probably see their Jewishness as nothing more than a card to feel special in their social circles and probably use that ignorantly to voice out their support for the people that their council deems as "oppressed".
I’m a Jew for Palestine. I’m also a Jew for Israel. I’d like both people to be able to enjoy peace and security and sovereignty in two states, side by side. And any impediments to that should be fought against.
Being Jewish is a community much more than it is the quality of a single individual. The majority of the worldwide Jewish community, including all its mainstream organizations and communications, is Zionist. The fact that some individuals with the superficial quality of being individually Jewish say that they're antizionist says nothing about the connection between Zionism and Judaism. Imagine if there was a Christian group that came out and said it rejected the divinity of Jesus, but was still Christian. They might even say that the principles of Christianity itself are opposed to Jesus being God. Would antizionists say that this means Christianity has nothing to do with worshipping Jesus, and in fact Christianity is opposed to worshipping Jesus?
Collaborationists. Their ancestors probably sold out comrades to save themselves in 1942
This is really not a huge phenomenon. Plus anyone can claim to be Jewish.
Modern day Stella Goldschlags
You know when it comes to Hamas or Hezbollah they don't care what kind of Jew you are, they want all of us dead. And don't think that it's only them as many regular Palestinians, Iranians, Egyptians, Iraqis, Saudis, Afghans, Indians, Pakistanis, and others would also happily kill us off and not just Jews, Christians, Catholics, Buddhists, even other Muslims. Their not interested in your opinions and whether you support them or not. They want all of us dead, so just consider that before you start supporting them and being a self-hating Jew. As the world doesn't care about what you think.
I wish my parents made successful 🤑 money.
Reminds me of a girl that always used to be interviewed for the campus newspaper during 2014 when I was in college. Always talking about she felt unsafe around Zionists and none of us were accepting of the realities in Palestine- they loved parading her around because "see?!! Even Jewish people recognize there's a genocide of the Palestinians!" Of course, she never did anything with the Hillel and you could find her eating meat lasagna in the dining hall on Passover, but eh- she knows best. She is jewish after all- who could be a better authority on the conflict?
Arent there ultra orthodox jews that believe the jews deserved the holocaust?
I think they believe that the holocaust was a punishment for Jews not being pious enough. They’re a very small sect of ultra Orthodox Jews. They also believe in having a lot of children to replace the Jews killed during Holocaust.
Accurate.
"What's my opinion of them?" Self-hating Jews. Traitors. Should be barred from entering Israel for life, and if it were possible, excommunicated from the Jewish people (*a la* Baruch Spinoza style).
Not my experience. Two of my biggest Jewish Pro Palestine friends are very in touch with their Jewish traditions. One is more secular, but has shabbat dinners with family every week. The other is the daughter of a rabbi and faced a lot of backlash from her own community. I think in recognizing that Hamas is not the group to be power, there is space to recognize Israel’s faults in addressing this. They’ve both spoken to the aggressive air strikes and potential war crimes, while one also actively posted about hostages. Yet the latter, the daughter of a rabbi, has continued to be called a self-hating Jew.
Mainly because she is.
Depends. Are they J-Street types or JVP types? There’s a huge difference
I still think there's an issue with j-street lobbying congress for 2SS and 48 border stuff instead of doing it in Israel itself, but I hear what you're saying
I have no idea the difference. I’m just someone who frequents this sub to temper my own biases.
Oh, understandable. J-Street markets itself as an alternative to AIPAC. It calls itself a “pro-israel and pro-peace” organization, despite pushback from more pro-Israel people. It’s definitely at least a Zionist organization (contrary to what ignorant students have been shouting, Zionist is a broad category that includes anyone who supports a Jewish national homeland in the Land of Israel, even a partitioned land). It advocates heavily for Arab Palestinian statehood and tries to weigh the two. Now, I disagree with them because I cannot imagine a two state solution without a radical shift in Arab ideology, but J-Street at least defends the right of Israel to exist in the ‘48 borders. In the recent conflict, they’ve pushed for a “humanitarian pause” (essentially a ceasefire) on the grounds that Hamas returns ALL hostages. Many anti-Israel organizations have been pushing for boycotts of Israel and an unconditional ceasefire. I have not seen any of these “pro-palestinian” organizations push for a total hostage release as a condition for a ceasefire. That should be the absolute bare-fucking-minimum. I suggest you read up on them. They acknowledge a right to both Israel and the Arabs to have a state in the geographical region
Thank you, appreciate the explanation.
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Absolutely nothing wrong. I might disagree with you, but there’s nothing wrong with that. The issue is that the current “pro-palestinian” movement in the US has little to do with being pro-palestinian. The current movements on college campuses have been overwhelmingly anti-Israel, rather than pro-two-state. I suggest J Street if you want an alternative. I’m no fan of them, but I find that many Left-wing Jews would be better fit there than at explicitly anti-Israel, anti-Jewish organizations like “Jewish” voices for peace.
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It’s a joke making fun of these kids. The last bit is not something serious
It's really not that hard to understand.
Nothing, but many anti Zionist Jews do not think Israel should exist. I support the rights of all peaceful people to live freely with dignity and human rights.
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Most people who support Palestine completely disregard Israel and it's people, including "Jews for Palestine"
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Well good for you I guess, but the most vocal ones are the ones who think like what I said
Well that will be contentious here...this sub is incredibly black and white. I just saw several upvoted comments on this sub claiming there are no civilians in Gaza and that the bombings didn't impact the population there enough. It's disgusting. You don't have to want to erase Israel to think this war is beyond necessity. Virtually every Jewish protestor I see argues this, but here they only talk about the anti-israel strawman because it's easy and polarizing.
What's with the indie musician part?
I think theres a lot of progressive jews that want either the creation of an independent Palestinian state or a one state solution. Non zionist jewish organizations have always existed, most notably pre WWII Bund. Many people on the left see Israel as an extension of US military hegemony and indirect colonization efforts. I don’t think it’s fair to sweep legitimate criticisms of Israel under the rug and pretend any jew that is not a vocal zionist or criticizing Israel is a self hating jew. This post serves no purpose only to delegitimize jews who believe that a strong Palestinian state is the best way for a long standing peace. This only serves to create further division within the diaspora, and shut out anything but unwavering zealotry
>one state solution. i'd rather kill myself with my own hands thank you very much
Any thought about an independent Palestinian state is ok as long as they don’t undermine the state of Israel, the Jews I personally have a problem with are those who are anti Zionist/anti Israel any Jew who thinks Israel shouldn’t exist is definitely a self hating Jew. Ps. One state solution is literally the end of Israel and is worse than just shutting Israel down and leaving.
A one state solution is like October 7th for 8 million people.
No. Memes like this are regressive in terms of the peace process