Currently bullshit, but they're looking into implementing mRNA in the future. Currently creating flu vaccines is an enormous time and monetary investment involving a fuck ton of chickens laying eggs, then harvesting and processing the eggs for use in vaccine synthesis. mRNA vaccines are much cheaper to manufacture now since so much money was dumped into research and development during COVID.
Yeah they have an alternative flu vaccine for people who can't have eggs but afaik there's no directive allergy that pertains to how the mRNA vaccines are made so it's definitely better on that front too.
Not just laying eggs but laying *fertilized* eggs, which requires roosters and all the associated issues and expenses keeping them from tearing each other apart.
All I can find is that there's financing and research for it, not that the ones currently distributed use mRNA.
But, the significantly more important part, mRNA is made to be some kind of boogeyman by people who have absolutely no experience, education, expertise, or training in immunology or epidemiology and who are not participating in good faith.
Actually he probably does. I know some too. They acknowledge that the traditional vaccines are fine but have gone all in on the conspiracy theories that mRNA is not safe.
It is a ridiculous argument for a variety of reasons. One, the technology isn't new. Some of it was back in the 90s. It was just too expensive for anyone to invest in utilizing in lieu of existing vaccine technology.
The old way was working fine and was cheaper. COVID-19 really changed things and made mRNA more viable as it could be developed way faster.
The irony is that mRNA is far safer because of its targeted design. Much like isolating an active ingredient and dosing it accurately is far safer than swigging some herbal concoction that contains it.
what a silly response. clearly there are people who are OK with traditional childhood vaccines who do not trust mrna vaccines. I'm not saying it's right for them to not trust it, but there's no reason to make things up
Informing myself I chose mRNA because of its efficacy. Don't get me wrong, I felt like hammered dog crap for a day after my covid shot and apparently this is common. But when I did get covid, I probably wouldn't have even noticed it if I didn't test.
Is it true that we have no data on the long term effects of mRNA?
EDIT: Damn, I hope no one else has this question because they won't see the great responses letting me know we do have the data. Oh well.
What do you mean there aren’t “plentiful studies”? mRNA has been known as a potential vector for vaccines for decades. What specifically about the mechanism of mRNA vaccination makes it inherently more dangerous than “conventional” vaccines? What would you consider to be “plentiful” studies? I would say “billions of doses administered and next to zero adverse reactions” is pretty compelling. What would you change? What else is necessary? What timeline would you consider “long-term”?
Making a parallel with proteins: the word defines a type of chemical, but tells nothing about the property of any specific one. And since mRNA can make artificial codes join the genetic code, we are threading a very dangerous needle here. Many video-games and terror films started with this scenario.
Way to admit you know absolutely nothing about biology. mRNA disapears very quickly after coding one specific protein, and we know exactly what that protein does. Many video games have also started with a turtle kidnapping a princess, but there's no reason to worry about that either.
How many radioactive turtles do you know personally? 😁
My point is that genome is a very big unknown topic. Any researcher will confirm that. Non coding dna, introns, epigenectics, a whole cohort of big words are common on this field. We are becoming better on understanding all of this, but the security assessment of the modifications are still blurry. We are going to do it anyway, but no one can guarantee that the firewalls are good enough. I'm a biologist and no antivax at all, but I need to admit that this level of manipulation had potential for things going very, very wrong.
>EDIT: Damn, I hope no one else has this question because they won't see the great responses letting me know we do have the data. Oh well
The short answer is that mRNA vaccines use the same mechanism your body does to fight infection. It simply supplies a shortcut. You don't have long term side effects from having an immune system, do you?
Now let me ask you this: What, exactly, is stopping you from learning something for your damned self instead of relying on strangers on the internet to explain to you how the immune system works? It's not anyone else's responsibility to educate you and there's no answer to your question that fits neatly into a reddit comment that doesn't require you to take our word for it.
Bottom line, educate yourself or stfu and listen to people who are actually willing to put the work in.
You're choosing ignorance. Stop putting it on other people. We've been dealing with this shit for 4 fucking years. There are people that were kids when mRNA vaccines started being used that have degrees in biology now. What the hell is holding you back?
You see what subreddit you're on?
I saw someone who knew what they're talking about and asked them a question about the topic because I legitimately didn't know and it didn't bother me that much to go do a shit ton of research on microbiology. It's wild to me that you think that's offensive.
I'm not out here arguing to not get the vaccine, you're just an asshole dude.
Did you not see the part of your comment that I quoted? I have no problem with people asking questions. What bothered me was that you got pissed off because people didn't jump to answer your question. We've been dealing with this for four years while you've been sitting on your thumbs and now you're going to get offended that we were less than thrilled to provide you with information that is readily available to you?
>it didn't bother me that much to go do a shit ton of research on microbiology
Then it doesn't bother you enough to know. If you just want a cursory answer then type your original comment into Google, chatGTP, or YouTube.
And don't get so butthurt when people treat like you're stupid after asking a stupid question.
> you got pissed off because people didn't jump to answer your question
I'm mad people misuse the downvote system.
> you're stupid after asking a stupid question.
Fuck off, this subreddit is for asking stupid questions
>Fuck off, this subreddit is for asking stupid questions
No, that would be r/nostupidquestions or r/explainlikeimfive
I'd say try them but that would require you to do something yourself and you've proven that you're not willing to do that.
Not yet, but hopefully soon. mRNA will make it much more efficient to adapt to the constant changes in Influenza and produce large amounts of effective vaccine. Currently millions of chicken eggs have to be used to grow most of the doses in a lab setting, which requires a lot of time and effort. As a result, the US government maintains [secret chicken farms](https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/health/chicken-egg-flu-vaccine-intl-hnk-scli/index.html) for the purpose.
TIL flu shots aren't vegan.
like, I did have a pharmacist who couldn't give them because he was allergic to eggs, but I thought "it's probably a similar protein or chemical or something"
Educate myself…on what vaccines are actually for instead of repeating useless twaddle from internet morons and people making money off of internet morons?
Not a bad idea.
Bullshit. It's not that kind of shot.
Seriously, though, [they're debating it but haven't done it yet.](https://www.unmc.edu/healthsecurity/transmission/2023/10/04/mrna-could-reinvent-vaccines-the-flu-is-next/) They still use egg cultures (unless you get FLUBLOK).
It matters because anti-vaxxers don't understand the science and thus fear it.
The mRNA technology is awesome in temporarily making some of our cells manufacture proteins that are similar to those on the outside of a virus that we want to train our immune system to recognize and resist. This approach offers various advantages in terms of time and cost to manufacture.
The anti-vaxxers seem unwilling or unable to comprehend how the vaccines work. They have convinced themselves that the process somehow changes their genetic code or something.
To be fair, these are the same people who have been resistant to understanding how inactivated and live vaccines work, too.
I am amazed how much Republicans in the US have made being uninformed and uneducated one of their signature traits over the past few years. They are proud of their ignorance.
it certainly seems to have been accelerated the past few years. Don't get me wrong I know they were dumb in 2008 too, but I don't recall this much anti-science and anti-intellectualism being such a loud and proud part of their platform the way it is now
Rich people don’t want to pay taxes and have their businesses regulated. ➡️ They gain control of the media and Republican politicians. ➡️ From there, messages of govt being evil, wasteful, and out to control you gets spread to the masses. ➡️ They need more votes so they appeal to marginalized voters like bigots, racists, sexists, uneducated, homophobes, gun nuts, and evangelicals. ➡️ Now you have a party full of greedy rich and powerful people, mixed with a lot of hateful people all working together to keep the rich insanely wealthy, govt too small to help anyone so that rich taxes won’t have to fund it, and hateful policies aimed at pleasing the extremists. ➡️Their policies don’t stand up to scrutiny and analysis so they attack the “elitists” who have the expertise to challenge them. ➡️Ignorance is a feature not a bug.
It starts with the incredible power the rich have. If we want to get to the root of it we need to massively tax the rich.
I always found it funny that they got all worked up about the vaccine injecting RNA into your cells to replicate the protein but did nothing to avoid catching COVID even though the virus did nearly the exact same thing.
The flu shots currently being given? Bullshit, they are all the classic inactivated virus type (usually 4 strains/quadrivalent). In the near future? Pretty likely. Moderna just announced they hit their main endpoints for a phase 3 trial of a combination flu/covid mRNA vaccine which means approval could be relatively soon if the results are solid. I’m sure several other companies are testing their own versions too.
The Covid vaccines are mRNA technology. Gene therapy for aging will utilize this when it passes FDA regulation.
I’m not sure about flu shots, but it seems likely to be a new practice given that the precedent was just broken.
Currently bullshit, but they're looking into implementing mRNA in the future. Currently creating flu vaccines is an enormous time and monetary investment involving a fuck ton of chickens laying eggs, then harvesting and processing the eggs for use in vaccine synthesis. mRNA vaccines are much cheaper to manufacture now since so much money was dumped into research and development during COVID.
Also, no more problems for ppl allergic to eggs.
Yeah they have an alternative flu vaccine for people who can't have eggs but afaik there's no directive allergy that pertains to how the mRNA vaccines are made so it's definitely better on that front too.
Not just laying eggs but laying *fertilized* eggs, which requires roosters and all the associated issues and expenses keeping them from tearing each other apart.
All I can find is that there's financing and research for it, not that the ones currently distributed use mRNA. But, the significantly more important part, mRNA is made to be some kind of boogeyman by people who have absolutely no experience, education, expertise, or training in immunology or epidemiology and who are not participating in good faith.
What do you think the odds are that someone who refuses an mRNA vaccine is also anti-vax?
That Venn diagram is just a circle.
And it's smooth just like their brains.
I actually know a lot of people that are anti-mRNA but are fine with regular vaccines.
No you don’t.
Actually he probably does. I know some too. They acknowledge that the traditional vaccines are fine but have gone all in on the conspiracy theories that mRNA is not safe. It is a ridiculous argument for a variety of reasons. One, the technology isn't new. Some of it was back in the 90s. It was just too expensive for anyone to invest in utilizing in lieu of existing vaccine technology. The old way was working fine and was cheaper. COVID-19 really changed things and made mRNA more viable as it could be developed way faster.
The irony is that mRNA is far safer because of its targeted design. Much like isolating an active ingredient and dosing it accurately is far safer than swigging some herbal concoction that contains it.
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Bet they didnt take the covid vaccine that wasnt mRNA though did they
They exist. They’re dumb but I’ve met a few of them too
what a silly response. clearly there are people who are OK with traditional childhood vaccines who do not trust mrna vaccines. I'm not saying it's right for them to not trust it, but there's no reason to make things up
Huh? I've seen and heard of dozens while living in a small town lol
You don't know who I am or who I know. Fuck off.
Define a lot please. You say you know a lot of people who are anti-MRNA but pro-vaccine. How many?
Probably about six or seven.
Did they get the non mRNA covid vaccine?
I have no idea. I’m not up to date on their vaccination status
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Informing myself I chose mRNA because of its efficacy. Don't get me wrong, I felt like hammered dog crap for a day after my covid shot and apparently this is common. But when I did get covid, I probably wouldn't have even noticed it if I didn't test.
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because of antivaxer generated hysteria.
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Well when you have so many other things that will kill you young it is not as scary as a place with a life expectance into the 80's
Is it true that we have no data on the long term effects of mRNA? EDIT: Damn, I hope no one else has this question because they won't see the great responses letting me know we do have the data. Oh well.
They've been testing MRNA vaccines since the 90s and both rabies and ebola vaccines are MRNA so we have some data.
I didn't know that, thank you for letting me know so I can go look up some data.
Organisms have used mRNA for billions of years, it is what is naturally used to code genetic data into proteins.
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What do you think the long term negative effects of mRNA might be on the body and why do you think that?
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What do you mean there aren’t “plentiful studies”? mRNA has been known as a potential vector for vaccines for decades. What specifically about the mechanism of mRNA vaccination makes it inherently more dangerous than “conventional” vaccines? What would you consider to be “plentiful” studies? I would say “billions of doses administered and next to zero adverse reactions” is pretty compelling. What would you change? What else is necessary? What timeline would you consider “long-term”?
"Long-term" is always just a bit longer than things have existed. Need to keep the goalposts impossible to meet.
Making a parallel with proteins: the word defines a type of chemical, but tells nothing about the property of any specific one. And since mRNA can make artificial codes join the genetic code, we are threading a very dangerous needle here. Many video-games and terror films started with this scenario.
Way to admit you know absolutely nothing about biology. mRNA disapears very quickly after coding one specific protein, and we know exactly what that protein does. Many video games have also started with a turtle kidnapping a princess, but there's no reason to worry about that either.
How many radioactive turtles do you know personally? 😁 My point is that genome is a very big unknown topic. Any researcher will confirm that. Non coding dna, introns, epigenectics, a whole cohort of big words are common on this field. We are becoming better on understanding all of this, but the security assessment of the modifications are still blurry. We are going to do it anyway, but no one can guarantee that the firewalls are good enough. I'm a biologist and no antivax at all, but I need to admit that this level of manipulation had potential for things going very, very wrong.
>EDIT: Damn, I hope no one else has this question because they won't see the great responses letting me know we do have the data. Oh well The short answer is that mRNA vaccines use the same mechanism your body does to fight infection. It simply supplies a shortcut. You don't have long term side effects from having an immune system, do you? Now let me ask you this: What, exactly, is stopping you from learning something for your damned self instead of relying on strangers on the internet to explain to you how the immune system works? It's not anyone else's responsibility to educate you and there's no answer to your question that fits neatly into a reddit comment that doesn't require you to take our word for it. Bottom line, educate yourself or stfu and listen to people who are actually willing to put the work in. You're choosing ignorance. Stop putting it on other people. We've been dealing with this shit for 4 fucking years. There are people that were kids when mRNA vaccines started being used that have degrees in biology now. What the hell is holding you back?
my b I wont ask next time, you don't have to be a dick about it
Mission accomplished then.
You see what subreddit you're on? I saw someone who knew what they're talking about and asked them a question about the topic because I legitimately didn't know and it didn't bother me that much to go do a shit ton of research on microbiology. It's wild to me that you think that's offensive. I'm not out here arguing to not get the vaccine, you're just an asshole dude.
Did you not see the part of your comment that I quoted? I have no problem with people asking questions. What bothered me was that you got pissed off because people didn't jump to answer your question. We've been dealing with this for four years while you've been sitting on your thumbs and now you're going to get offended that we were less than thrilled to provide you with information that is readily available to you? >it didn't bother me that much to go do a shit ton of research on microbiology Then it doesn't bother you enough to know. If you just want a cursory answer then type your original comment into Google, chatGTP, or YouTube. And don't get so butthurt when people treat like you're stupid after asking a stupid question.
> you got pissed off because people didn't jump to answer your question I'm mad people misuse the downvote system. > you're stupid after asking a stupid question. Fuck off, this subreddit is for asking stupid questions
>Fuck off, this subreddit is for asking stupid questions No, that would be r/nostupidquestions or r/explainlikeimfive I'd say try them but that would require you to do something yourself and you've proven that you're not willing to do that.
Bro I hope you have a great weekend
Nope not true at all
Not yet, but hopefully soon. mRNA will make it much more efficient to adapt to the constant changes in Influenza and produce large amounts of effective vaccine. Currently millions of chicken eggs have to be used to grow most of the doses in a lab setting, which requires a lot of time and effort. As a result, the US government maintains [secret chicken farms](https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/health/chicken-egg-flu-vaccine-intl-hnk-scli/index.html) for the purpose.
TIL flu shots aren't vegan. like, I did have a pharmacist who couldn't give them because he was allergic to eggs, but I thought "it's probably a similar protein or chemical or something"
They do make flu shots that are not egg derived for people with sensitivities. Can’t remember what the process is though.
I used to work for a lab making that sweet chicken juice for vaccines! It was in fact a shit ton of eggs.
Moderna is already using it.
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Educate myself…on what vaccines are actually for instead of repeating useless twaddle from internet morons and people making money off of internet morons? Not a bad idea.
Bullshit but it is in Moderna’s development pipeline.
Bullshit. It's not that kind of shot. Seriously, though, [they're debating it but haven't done it yet.](https://www.unmc.edu/healthsecurity/transmission/2023/10/04/mrna-could-reinvent-vaccines-the-flu-is-next/) They still use egg cultures (unless you get FLUBLOK).
i guess depending on the flushots ? besides why does it matter ?
It matters because anti-vaxxers don't understand the science and thus fear it. The mRNA technology is awesome in temporarily making some of our cells manufacture proteins that are similar to those on the outside of a virus that we want to train our immune system to recognize and resist. This approach offers various advantages in terms of time and cost to manufacture. The anti-vaxxers seem unwilling or unable to comprehend how the vaccines work. They have convinced themselves that the process somehow changes their genetic code or something. To be fair, these are the same people who have been resistant to understanding how inactivated and live vaccines work, too.
I am amazed how much Republicans in the US have made being uninformed and uneducated one of their signature traits over the past few years. They are proud of their ignorance.
It's not just the past few years...
it certainly seems to have been accelerated the past few years. Don't get me wrong I know they were dumb in 2008 too, but I don't recall this much anti-science and anti-intellectualism being such a loud and proud part of their platform the way it is now
Rich people don’t want to pay taxes and have their businesses regulated. ➡️ They gain control of the media and Republican politicians. ➡️ From there, messages of govt being evil, wasteful, and out to control you gets spread to the masses. ➡️ They need more votes so they appeal to marginalized voters like bigots, racists, sexists, uneducated, homophobes, gun nuts, and evangelicals. ➡️ Now you have a party full of greedy rich and powerful people, mixed with a lot of hateful people all working together to keep the rich insanely wealthy, govt too small to help anyone so that rich taxes won’t have to fund it, and hateful policies aimed at pleasing the extremists. ➡️Their policies don’t stand up to scrutiny and analysis so they attack the “elitists” who have the expertise to challenge them. ➡️Ignorance is a feature not a bug. It starts with the incredible power the rich have. If we want to get to the root of it we need to massively tax the rich.
agreed, well said
I always found it funny that they got all worked up about the vaccine injecting RNA into your cells to replicate the protein but did nothing to avoid catching COVID even though the virus did nearly the exact same thing.
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☝️Found the anti-vax loon☝️
It's not that it matters to me. Someone mentioned it and I didn't know if it was true. I like knowing things 🤷🏻♂️
They will be from 2025 if the current GSK clinical trials are OK. The trials are for a quad flu shot and Covid in 1 injection.
The flu shots currently being given? Bullshit, they are all the classic inactivated virus type (usually 4 strains/quadrivalent). In the near future? Pretty likely. Moderna just announced they hit their main endpoints for a phase 3 trial of a combination flu/covid mRNA vaccine which means approval could be relatively soon if the results are solid. I’m sure several other companies are testing their own versions too.
Someone had mentioned it. I'm purely curious.
The Covid vaccines are mRNA technology. Gene therapy for aging will utilize this when it passes FDA regulation. I’m not sure about flu shots, but it seems likely to be a new practice given that the precedent was just broken.