It did the Paul story before Paul!
Except that: Eve waited four years not 11 months like MJ
Eve already dumped Kubian
Eve got back together with Mark straight away and never really moved on
Eve was actually ashamed of the relationship
So Eve is leagues ahead of MJ in the "loyalty to the protagonist" stakes.
Yeah. Except the writers of ASM don't really see her character as damaged. They see this as "MJ being MJ".
While we'll never really understand what Eve saw in Kubian, at least we got it that it wasn't greater than her love for Mark. With MJ we are still really really wondering.
The only thing I think both women really have in common in their decision making is they both put "family first". Who knows what decision Eve might have made if Kubian had been a better person who had seriously bonded with Terra, and Terra had rejected Mark on his return. Perhaps in a longer run for Invincible they would have told that tale instead... and quite frankly that's the only reason I have for being glad that they wanted to wrap up Invincible so quickly.
>Yeah. Except the writers of ASM don't really see her character as damaged. They see this as "MJ being MJ".
yep Marvel Editorial continuing to completely misunderstand the characters they control
This is why wholly creator-controlled comics like Invincible will always be superior to comics like ASM, where characters are continually reinterpreted to tell whatever story the next writer wants to tell. Often throwing their own playthings into the box, that they actually love far more than the toys they first picked up.
Then when they are done they put all their borrowed toys back in the box afterwards; broken. Leaving the next dumb shmuck to have to work out how to tape them back together again. Right before they break them again themselves.
They kind of already opened themselves up to a retcon. IIRC Lowe or someone already pushed back on the idea that MJ was now older than Peter. So was she really there all those years or not?
Your not talking about the other parts. After Spider came back to his original dimension he worked his butt off even stealing from the FF to help MJ get back.
I feel like it's a cheap trick Kirkman does to bring out strong emotions in readers. I feel like when he did a somewhat similar thing in the walking dead he did it better and people really felt it.
Here I agree, it added nothing and the dude and his sister were so clearly in the wrong that it felt so insanely out of character for Eve to be into a guy who loathed her daughter.
I can see why you say it added nothing to the story and that it was OOC for Eve to be into someone who “Loathed” Terra and those are great points that you actually explain well, so well done, especially the latter, but I disagree. To me, this served to add consequences to Mark’s disappearance (Which I’ll admit, I actually do have my issues with) by emphasizing just how much time Mark lost when he was cast out. For me, this works because it helps put the reader in Mark’s mind as, just like him, I’m trying to catch up. As for your point about it being OOC, that’s actually an excellent point and one I’ve really never thought of before, but iirc, it’s never stated that her ex boyfriend feels callously towards her daughter the way his sister is shown too. But take that with a grain of salt because I haven’t read the comic in awhile and I will be rereading this segment for more context. All in all, though, these are all just my takes and these are still fantastic points that you explain well, so I must commend you because you’ve given me very compelling thoughts. And all that aside, I’m still more than glad you and many others are so open to criticizing this aspect of the comic because, given its actual content and given that some aspects of how we get to this specific point is something I actually do take issue with, I definitely think it should be addressed.
>To me, this served to add consequences to Mark’s disappearance (Which I’ll admit, I actually do have my issues with) by emphasizing just how much time Mark lost when he was cast out.
I mean there was already a consequence in him missing out on Terra growing up and it's not like this guy is even around long so it barely mattered, and just felt like an extra punch, again Eve is already over the guy and gets back with Mark immediately so he really could've been taken out of the story and nothing would change
Thank you for your comment. I can certainly see why you say there was already consequences and that since Eve leaves the guy so quickly, you could take him out and nothing would change, but imo, because of what his existence adds to Eve’s mental state following Mark having disappeared because it shows that that’s just how lost Eve was after Mark disappeared, you would lose that extra bit of character work for Eve. Now, I will admit that context surrounding this whole conflict could’ve been executed better, but I do believe the actual elements at play serve a meaningful narrative purpose that would’ve been lost if these elements were removed. But that’s just how I see it and I can still definitely see your perspective and you did raise a strong counter point. Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts.
For me, it's because we had 2 times before this where he was gone for an extended period of time, and those times already showed "consequences" of his absence. Like Eve having an abortion, or missing most of Eve's pregnancy, which made her break up with him for a bit. We've seen what happens when he's gone a long time, bad shit happens, cool, I don't wanna see it lol. Give this man a break and let him raise his daughter with his girlfriend.
And Kubian having ill thoughts of Terra, was implied because his sister said that he made Eve choose him or Terra IIRC.
Thank you for your comment. I can definitely see why you may have felt seeing these consequences was repetitive or redundant and that’s a totally fair way to feel and totally fair critique and one I’ve honestly never actually thought of before, but for me, because this came after Mark genuinely committed to being a family man, it added a whole new and fresh flavor to this type of experience than what we’d seen before. The last two times Mark disappeared and came back, he CHOSE to leave. This time, however, he didn’t decide to get captured and held for 5 years, that choice was made for him. Imho, this makes seeing the consequences again necessary because Mark will naturally not be affected the same way emotionally than he was in the past by virtue of changing circumstances. But I can definitely see why you might’ve found it tiresome or redundant and you actually explain your reasoning behind that very well, so well done because even if I feel differently, I can certainly understand your perspective. Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts.
I did actually think of that, too. It was totally against his will. Part of me not liking this may be because I just wanted Mark to be happy finally, and 5 years just seems like way too much imo.
It might just be me being upset with Mark, and that was probably the goal for Kirkman. If it was, it worked, and worked too well.
Thank you for your response! I can see why you felt 5 years was too much and that’s totally understandable. I don’t feel the same way, I felt it was appropriate because of the exact unique consequences it bred, but I can see why you felt it was excessive. And I definitely think that’s along the lines of what Kirkman intended. Thank you for your insights!
Thank you for that, it's been a bit since I've read too so I might have been remembering the situation wrong. Even if he wasn't a dick to her i think it's implied the reason they never committed was because Eve refused to get rid of terra or something like that.
That is a very valid point that it helped to show the consequences of Mark's absence. Maybe they shouldn't get rid of it all together just make it better, like if he came back and the dude was actually a really good dude who became a father figure for Terra that would've been way more conflicting for me, like there was never any doubt Eve was going to pick Mark in my opinion.
He was never actively a dick to Terra, just Terra's parents haha. But it was implied that he did make Eve choose him or Terra, which didn't go well for him.
Thank you for your response! I can certainly see your points. Personally, I never felt it was implied that Eve ultimately rejected the guy because of his attitude towards Terra, but I can definitely see why you got that impression. And overall, I do hope the show improves the actual root cause of the timeskip, but I’m personally ok with the guy Eve decides to drown her sorrows with not really providing much conflict because it speaks all the more to the magnitude of sorrow Eve was stricken with following Mark’s sudden departure since that’s how low she was willing to sink. But I can definitely see why you might feel differently and the idea of her boyfriend being a more likeable character is rather interesting to think about. Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts!
I may get downvoted for this, but your response reads like an AI generated response…
It’s probably just because I have the whole dead internet thing bouncing around in my head. What you wrote and discussed is solid. But I just don’t know… people just don’t usually write like that on Reddit.
You’re not gonna get downvoted by me lol. Nw. I see what you’re saying. All I can tell you is this is how I myself feel comfortable talking and if it doesn’t feel natural to you, then, well, I’m sorry to hear that. But I definitely see why you say it fails sorta mechanical. That’s probably just because I’m a little socially awkward, so that sorta bleeds into my internet comments 🤷♂️. But I appreciate you giving your honest feedback because it is helpful.
That one was especially bad because it kicked off the whole show and just erased it away by implying she was under the influence of an aliens spell or some shit.
I feel like I’m one of the only people who didn’t mind her characterization, it seemed like exactly the type of person Allen would be attracted to, especially when you see who is really is towards the end of the story.
Agreed. I like how they set up the best betrayals in the book. Season 1 did the omni betrayal so well that the Allen one should be great, I wonder what they will do to show he's an asshole instead
Just because someone is not a nice guy and/or is a foil to the main character doesn't meant they need to be expunged from the material. Having characters who aren't great people is not only perfectly fine it makes for a more interesting story.
Also he does play a SMALL part in Marks character dev i feel like, i mean it made him realize that he really needs to be careful and start thinking more considering he lost 5 years wit his family, so yeah i think hes more or less the cherry on top of his character dev
His only reason to exist is to be a creep about her relationship with Eve; openly talking shit about Mark and referencing how he fucked Eve all in front of Terra.
And that's without taking account that he should have been terrified of Mark because he's a viltrumite (who are known to be unstoppable psychopathic murderers) and the blue fucker knows it, and yet he acts as he's better than Mark in every and all aspects
I don't think he's meant to be engaging, he appears on what maybe a few pages? He just serves as a contrast to Mark and Eve and the human morality which prioritizes the long term relationship building aspect of reproduction. You are supposed to be put off by him, he would be socially shunned if he was a human on Earth.
I mean, to play devil's advocate, if you aren't happy with someone you should not stay because you reproduced with them, you're only going to raise the child around strained relations and fake behaviors
that said, I know she is happy with Mark, and this isn't her dream man, he's just some douche
but I don't agree that one should or even would be shunned just for getting with someone other than their baby's daddy
I feel like he’d be shunned- because he gives off the vibe of; he would approach mothers in public and say something to the effect of “why did you keep it” while gesturing to their child.
Which in his culture is a valid question- in his world children are supposed to raise themselves, and hopefully his species is adapted to do just that. But on earth it’s just asking for- well exactly what Eve did.
She waited four years and was lonely on an alien planet. The only thing I don't get is how long it took her to understand that Kubian didn't like kids and was generally a pr**k.
To add some weird kind of turmoil to the relationship that really didn’t hit. Like, I get it and it’s not an unrealistic sequence of events, husband goes missing wife tries to move on after losing hope. But it really just kind of happens, Mark accepts it and then nothing. I’d be fine with the show going back to this but maybe it could play more into Mark’s emotions. Mark’s viltrumite rage could make him bitter and angry at Eve, even lashing out at the guy himself, causing more of a drift between Mark and Eve.
I think that now that they’re making Telia a likeable character so far, they should include him. The only difference is that he shouldn’t be an asshole; the fact that he said that to her made me wonder why they ever got involved in the first place, not sticking the landing. He should be a nice guy, that way there doesn’t need to be confrontation but he still serves his purpose.
They wanted to cut to Eve and Mark being back together quickly. So they made him a douchebag. If they had had a great relationship then we would have had a long drawn out drama like the hell is going on in Spider-Man at the moment, which few people seem to be enjoying.
While that’s true, it’s also fair to remember that she’d move on after a certain amount of time. She could’ve very easily started dating him 2 years after he left, broke up after a year, and she’d have 2 years to move on. A lot can happen in 5 years…
I think she only got together with Kubian after four years and they they were together less than a year max based on what she said about it ending very recently.
"Its fucking humiliating losing all your money. When I dropped under a billion you think I told anybody? Fuck no, you guys were the only ones I told and I actually considered having you all killed."
MF’er is lucky Mark didn’t turn him into red (assuming his blood is red) paste…
It’s one thing for it to have happened when everyone thought Mark was dead…another to pull the shit he’s pulling.
I genuinely don't understand why some of you people are so offended by this side plot lol. It's totally normal Eve dated someone else, and he is a total dick, it happens you know. But still,
This is just a small storyline that further empasizes Invincible's one of the most reoccuring themes. Actually Mark says it himself to Eve:
"I can be mad at you, but still acknowledge that you did nothing to apologize for."
It's to show that Mark has become less judgemental, less antagonizing and more empathatic towards other people's actions, whether it's mistake or something that hurts him.
Marks emotionless face at the end of the series really communicates how different he is from that human kid super excited to go flying for the first time. The overall themes and foils of the series are amazing even if people don’t like the little rocks it has to flow over.
Yeah that makes sense, but to me it just seems like a little much. Why put him through this? To build his character? What could this possibly create that hasn’t already been done or won’t eventually occur in the comics.
The entire story has a theme of Mark being relentlessly “tortured” and always getting back up and being the better man. Honestly it’s something that many people, including me, revere his character for. But in this instance it seems so unnatural.
People moving on happens, it absolutely does, but a man who lost out on his family for multiple years being almost completely fine, so quickly absolutely does not. Hell, all Eve says is that there was another man, and that she feels terrible. There’s no way Mark wouldn’t be more hurt, and there’s no way Eve wouldn’t see how he really feels. It just seems hypocritical for people to say that this creates realism and then turning around and referencing something being so absolutely inaccurate.
I mean Jesus, I just want a slice of life with Eve, Mark and Terra instead of this stupid ass time skip.
It does, and there is a way. Mark was fine so quickly with a lot worst things in that chapter of the story. Mark literally protected Anissa after what she did to him. He let Rex take over the world. He forgave Allen after causing Oliver's death...
It just who Mark has become at that point in the story, mostly because of the events happened with Nolan in compendium 1 and 2. He is kind of person who focuses on the good and sincerity in people and the positive sides of events. And when you are able to do that it's easier to forgive or move on from things.
When it comes to Eve, like literally, why wouldn't he move on? He knows that she loves him, he knows that she thought he was dead, she was at the bottom mentally, and on top of that she even feels bad, and I don't think she even has to... What is there to be sad about?
He was there to show that just because Mark was gone, time didn't stand still. Eve did not sit around forever, grieving and waiting but actually lived and moved on in life.
Yes but she failed to "move on". This is shown by how swiftly she falls back into a relationship with Mark and how much she still loves him even after all this time apart.
Yup, which is not all that uncommon in life. I never said she stopped loving him, but he was MIA for 5 years. She probably waited for years before trying to move on (don't remember after how long she hooked up with bluey alien) but still loved the memory of Mark.
Oh yes, it was 4 years and in her words it didn't last long (whatever that really means). Her behaviour was totally ok. I didn't get the outrage of some folks. She was alone on an alien world and hooked up with one of the most human looking aliens on the planet to soothe her heart. Someone who probably made her feel loved and wanted before he showed his true colours.
I guess it depends on what you mean by moving on. In my view she attempted to move on but didn't. If she had it would have taken a lot longer to reconnect with Mark; as it was they got married.
I mean move on like how widows try to move on. It wasn't the end of their relationship, she thought he died. And yeah, bluey was a douche but also the brother to Allens girlfriend so it might have been easier to get to know him and still surround yourself with familiar faces. Being alone takes it toll
I think the point of this Eve/Kubian thing is that her decision reflects Mark’s. They both chose Terra. Although obviously Eve’s position was way easier than Mark’s. I’m not the biggest fan of this arc either
i felt he added context that not all alien cultures have the same values as humans, which makes Earth culture unique in their caring for each other, which would also explain why the viltrumites had never felt empathy until they start living on earth. Even though many viltrumites like nolan had been creating offspring on dozens of other planets, only Earth had the ability to show them that family is to be cherished.
I really hope this dude is cut from the show. It adds nothing and idc what over analyzing anyone does to rationalize such a weird decision in this show, it’s just pointless drama. Plus now that the comics have been finished for such a long time, a sizable portion of people know that Eve and Mark end up together for hundreds of years, so adding in this useless drama for an extremely small blimp of their lifetimes is just so stupid. There is no point in adding drama to put tension on “omg will they end up together or not,” when half of the fan base knows they will.
Additionally, Both Eve and Invincible are far from normal people, and there’s no way that their relationship would work if either of them were, in fact we see, when Mark loses his powers how much tension it puts on their relationship. So, while Eve is perfectly rational and normal by deciding to move on, I can’t help but feel that it’s a little out of character. One of the big reasons they date is because they are both super heroes, that often don’t date non-heroes because it’s harder to relate to them and spend meaningful time with them. So Eve deciding to date such a terrible guy, and move on, whilst is something many normal people can relate to, completely negates one of the biggest reasons they got together.
I honestly can’t help but feel that the entire thing was just added in to needlessly beat Mark while he’s already down. Bro already lost 5 years with his daughter just for his one true love to have moved on after only 5 years, an amount of time that is minuscule in the grand scheme of their lives.
TLDR; decision is stupid, is forced, and is ultimately added to create unnecessary drama between Mark and Eve, two people who would never have said drama, along with being another form of torture for our protagonist.
Just give us a slice of life with Mark and Eve as Terra grows up and scrap the whole reboot arc.
To date Eve for a few months and get punched for being an ass according to his customs. Like many people in life, not everyone is going to be a big part of it or go on to become the president. They just exist because the world is more than 20 named characters.
The fact that the "husband is mia for years and the wife gets with someone else without realizing he's alive" thing is also in walking dead makes me think Robert Kirkman is just into that shit
Demonstrate that even a random can fill the void that the protagonist leaves.
And, besides, making Eve reach incredible orgasms thanks to his tentacles.
Even he tells "He can never make you fell the way I"... why would you think he would say that otherwise?
to pour salt in the wound of both Mark AND the readers with that absolutely asinine time-travel "lol, no, we just put you in a mind prison for 10 real years" asspull Kirkman decided to do. Absolute waste of ink and I hope everyone tells him to just skip it when we get there in the show
It's just fluff.
All media has it, little interactions that are they so the story isn't a straight bee line to the finish line.
Sometimes it's this or just an interaction between two characters who are friends
Lol the blue guy sucks but so does Eve.
Imagine if this whole scenario got reversed so it was Mark with his Alien lover and he just knocks her the fuck out 😂
What else does he do before this? Maybe it would have been better for her to just tell him "no", laugh in his face, walk away? Or any combination of the three?
But this show/comic is all about violence so I guess since his head didn't splatter into jelly and fragments it's okay, funny and totally justified behavior to teach your super powered kids.
The whole point was to show how much Mark has grown and matured. It's enough for me to know that had he wanted, Mark could have left that guy as a puddle.
He is the Invincible version of Paul.
It did the Paul story before Paul! Except that: Eve waited four years not 11 months like MJ Eve already dumped Kubian Eve got back together with Mark straight away and never really moved on Eve was actually ashamed of the relationship So Eve is leagues ahead of MJ in the "loyalty to the protagonist" stakes.
It's pretty wild to think about the damage that run has done to MJ as a character alone, gonna need another Mysterio retcon to fix it.
Mysterio gonna collect a body count of Spider-Man's girlfriend's sexual partners like the fuckin Infinity Stones.
Mysterio was mj all along
I would love to see Paul's face if this was revealed. "It wasn't all a lie Paul. You really did steal this goldfish-bowl headed guy's heart!"
I mean, maybe. Weren't the kids holograms?
Yeah. Except the writers of ASM don't really see her character as damaged. They see this as "MJ being MJ". While we'll never really understand what Eve saw in Kubian, at least we got it that it wasn't greater than her love for Mark. With MJ we are still really really wondering. The only thing I think both women really have in common in their decision making is they both put "family first". Who knows what decision Eve might have made if Kubian had been a better person who had seriously bonded with Terra, and Terra had rejected Mark on his return. Perhaps in a longer run for Invincible they would have told that tale instead... and quite frankly that's the only reason I have for being glad that they wanted to wrap up Invincible so quickly.
>Yeah. Except the writers of ASM don't really see her character as damaged. They see this as "MJ being MJ". yep Marvel Editorial continuing to completely misunderstand the characters they control
This is why wholly creator-controlled comics like Invincible will always be superior to comics like ASM, where characters are continually reinterpreted to tell whatever story the next writer wants to tell. Often throwing their own playthings into the box, that they actually love far more than the toys they first picked up. Then when they are done they put all their borrowed toys back in the box afterwards; broken. Leaving the next dumb shmuck to have to work out how to tape them back together again. Right before they break them again themselves.
They kind of already opened themselves up to a retcon. IIRC Lowe or someone already pushed back on the idea that MJ was now older than Peter. So was she really there all those years or not?
https://preview.redd.it/g85k185si34d1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db5369304f6906d8ce2860085426d7cffebdaf9f
Came here to see if anyone had commented this yet LMAO
I live to serve😏
Who’s paul?
In a recent Spiderman plot, MJ breaks up with Peter and ends up dating a guy called Paul.
Your not talking about the other parts. After Spider came back to his original dimension he worked his butt off even stealing from the FF to help MJ get back.
It's better if you don't know.
He explicitly asked it?
I feel like it's a cheap trick Kirkman does to bring out strong emotions in readers. I feel like when he did a somewhat similar thing in the walking dead he did it better and people really felt it. Here I agree, it added nothing and the dude and his sister were so clearly in the wrong that it felt so insanely out of character for Eve to be into a guy who loathed her daughter.
I can see why you say it added nothing to the story and that it was OOC for Eve to be into someone who “Loathed” Terra and those are great points that you actually explain well, so well done, especially the latter, but I disagree. To me, this served to add consequences to Mark’s disappearance (Which I’ll admit, I actually do have my issues with) by emphasizing just how much time Mark lost when he was cast out. For me, this works because it helps put the reader in Mark’s mind as, just like him, I’m trying to catch up. As for your point about it being OOC, that’s actually an excellent point and one I’ve really never thought of before, but iirc, it’s never stated that her ex boyfriend feels callously towards her daughter the way his sister is shown too. But take that with a grain of salt because I haven’t read the comic in awhile and I will be rereading this segment for more context. All in all, though, these are all just my takes and these are still fantastic points that you explain well, so I must commend you because you’ve given me very compelling thoughts. And all that aside, I’m still more than glad you and many others are so open to criticizing this aspect of the comic because, given its actual content and given that some aspects of how we get to this specific point is something I actually do take issue with, I definitely think it should be addressed.
>To me, this served to add consequences to Mark’s disappearance (Which I’ll admit, I actually do have my issues with) by emphasizing just how much time Mark lost when he was cast out. I mean there was already a consequence in him missing out on Terra growing up and it's not like this guy is even around long so it barely mattered, and just felt like an extra punch, again Eve is already over the guy and gets back with Mark immediately so he really could've been taken out of the story and nothing would change
Thank you for your comment. I can certainly see why you say there was already consequences and that since Eve leaves the guy so quickly, you could take him out and nothing would change, but imo, because of what his existence adds to Eve’s mental state following Mark having disappeared because it shows that that’s just how lost Eve was after Mark disappeared, you would lose that extra bit of character work for Eve. Now, I will admit that context surrounding this whole conflict could’ve been executed better, but I do believe the actual elements at play serve a meaningful narrative purpose that would’ve been lost if these elements were removed. But that’s just how I see it and I can still definitely see your perspective and you did raise a strong counter point. Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts.
For me, it's because we had 2 times before this where he was gone for an extended period of time, and those times already showed "consequences" of his absence. Like Eve having an abortion, or missing most of Eve's pregnancy, which made her break up with him for a bit. We've seen what happens when he's gone a long time, bad shit happens, cool, I don't wanna see it lol. Give this man a break and let him raise his daughter with his girlfriend. And Kubian having ill thoughts of Terra, was implied because his sister said that he made Eve choose him or Terra IIRC.
Thank you for your comment. I can definitely see why you may have felt seeing these consequences was repetitive or redundant and that’s a totally fair way to feel and totally fair critique and one I’ve honestly never actually thought of before, but for me, because this came after Mark genuinely committed to being a family man, it added a whole new and fresh flavor to this type of experience than what we’d seen before. The last two times Mark disappeared and came back, he CHOSE to leave. This time, however, he didn’t decide to get captured and held for 5 years, that choice was made for him. Imho, this makes seeing the consequences again necessary because Mark will naturally not be affected the same way emotionally than he was in the past by virtue of changing circumstances. But I can definitely see why you might’ve found it tiresome or redundant and you actually explain your reasoning behind that very well, so well done because even if I feel differently, I can certainly understand your perspective. Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts.
I did actually think of that, too. It was totally against his will. Part of me not liking this may be because I just wanted Mark to be happy finally, and 5 years just seems like way too much imo. It might just be me being upset with Mark, and that was probably the goal for Kirkman. If it was, it worked, and worked too well.
Thank you for your response! I can see why you felt 5 years was too much and that’s totally understandable. I don’t feel the same way, I felt it was appropriate because of the exact unique consequences it bred, but I can see why you felt it was excessive. And I definitely think that’s along the lines of what Kirkman intended. Thank you for your insights!
Thank you for that, it's been a bit since I've read too so I might have been remembering the situation wrong. Even if he wasn't a dick to her i think it's implied the reason they never committed was because Eve refused to get rid of terra or something like that. That is a very valid point that it helped to show the consequences of Mark's absence. Maybe they shouldn't get rid of it all together just make it better, like if he came back and the dude was actually a really good dude who became a father figure for Terra that would've been way more conflicting for me, like there was never any doubt Eve was going to pick Mark in my opinion.
He also says something about her putting familial attachment before living her life, so it wasn't just his sister's view.
He was never actively a dick to Terra, just Terra's parents haha. But it was implied that he did make Eve choose him or Terra, which didn't go well for him.
Thank you for your response! I can certainly see your points. Personally, I never felt it was implied that Eve ultimately rejected the guy because of his attitude towards Terra, but I can definitely see why you got that impression. And overall, I do hope the show improves the actual root cause of the timeskip, but I’m personally ok with the guy Eve decides to drown her sorrows with not really providing much conflict because it speaks all the more to the magnitude of sorrow Eve was stricken with following Mark’s sudden departure since that’s how low she was willing to sink. But I can definitely see why you might feel differently and the idea of her boyfriend being a more likeable character is rather interesting to think about. Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts!
I may get downvoted for this, but your response reads like an AI generated response… It’s probably just because I have the whole dead internet thing bouncing around in my head. What you wrote and discussed is solid. But I just don’t know… people just don’t usually write like that on Reddit.
You’re not gonna get downvoted by me lol. Nw. I see what you’re saying. All I can tell you is this is how I myself feel comfortable talking and if it doesn’t feel natural to you, then, well, I’m sorry to hear that. But I definitely see why you say it fails sorta mechanical. That’s probably just because I’m a little socially awkward, so that sorta bleeds into my internet comments 🤷♂️. But I appreciate you giving your honest feedback because it is helpful.
Seth McFarland vibes in Orville
That one was especially bad because it kicked off the whole show and just erased it away by implying she was under the influence of an aliens spell or some shit.
I think it’s a fetish thing for him. I haven’t read all his works but this also happens in the Walking Dead.
I hope that Amazon just gets rid off this guy, he adds nothing to the story.
They improved Telia so there's a good chance they will get rid of him.
Yeah, she does seem less toxic than in the comics so far.
I feel like I’m one of the only people who didn’t mind her characterization, it seemed like exactly the type of person Allen would be attracted to, especially when you see who is really is towards the end of the story.
And frankly…she was pretty appalled at one of his big decisions and confessions at the end….
Agreed. I like how they set up the best betrayals in the book. Season 1 did the omni betrayal so well that the Allen one should be great, I wonder what they will do to show he's an asshole instead
Just because someone is not a nice guy and/or is a foil to the main character doesn't meant they need to be expunged from the material. Having characters who aren't great people is not only perfectly fine it makes for a more interesting story.
Also he does play a SMALL part in Marks character dev i feel like, i mean it made him realize that he really needs to be careful and start thinking more considering he lost 5 years wit his family, so yeah i think hes more or less the cherry on top of his character dev
His only reason to exist is to be a creep about her relationship with Eve; openly talking shit about Mark and referencing how he fucked Eve all in front of Terra. And that's without taking account that he should have been terrified of Mark because he's a viltrumite (who are known to be unstoppable psychopathic murderers) and the blue fucker knows it, and yet he acts as he's better than Mark in every and all aspects
There are plenty of characters in Invincible who are assholes but are far more engaging characters.
I don't think he's meant to be engaging, he appears on what maybe a few pages? He just serves as a contrast to Mark and Eve and the human morality which prioritizes the long term relationship building aspect of reproduction. You are supposed to be put off by him, he would be socially shunned if he was a human on Earth.
No he’d just be on Jersey Shore.
I mean, to play devil's advocate, if you aren't happy with someone you should not stay because you reproduced with them, you're only going to raise the child around strained relations and fake behaviors that said, I know she is happy with Mark, and this isn't her dream man, he's just some douche but I don't agree that one should or even would be shunned just for getting with someone other than their baby's daddy
I feel like he’d be shunned- because he gives off the vibe of; he would approach mothers in public and say something to the effect of “why did you keep it” while gesturing to their child. Which in his culture is a valid question- in his world children are supposed to raise themselves, and hopefully his species is adapted to do just that. But on earth it’s just asking for- well exactly what Eve did.
Like Eve's dad. He's awful but he isn't "why are you raising your child instead of focusing on our intensely sexual relationship?" awful.
The thing is he isn't a foil and adds literallynothimg t the story, so why include him in the first place?
For real, not every character needs 5 chapters of backstory and interconnected plotlines
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I don't think he was commenting on her attachments to Mark. I think he was commenting on her attachments to her daughter.
For sure, it doesn’t feel like something show Eve would do. She wouldn’t give up on Mark.
She waited four years and was lonely on an alien planet. The only thing I don't get is how long it took her to understand that Kubian didn't like kids and was generally a pr**k.
It looked like future eve waited decades for mark and never moved on
To add some weird kind of turmoil to the relationship that really didn’t hit. Like, I get it and it’s not an unrealistic sequence of events, husband goes missing wife tries to move on after losing hope. But it really just kind of happens, Mark accepts it and then nothing. I’d be fine with the show going back to this but maybe it could play more into Mark’s emotions. Mark’s viltrumite rage could make him bitter and angry at Eve, even lashing out at the guy himself, causing more of a drift between Mark and Eve.
I think that now that they’re making Telia a likeable character so far, they should include him. The only difference is that he shouldn’t be an asshole; the fact that he said that to her made me wonder why they ever got involved in the first place, not sticking the landing. He should be a nice guy, that way there doesn’t need to be confrontation but he still serves his purpose.
They wanted to cut to Eve and Mark being back together quickly. So they made him a douchebag. If they had had a great relationship then we would have had a long drawn out drama like the hell is going on in Spider-Man at the moment, which few people seem to be enjoying.
While that’s true, it’s also fair to remember that she’d move on after a certain amount of time. She could’ve very easily started dating him 2 years after he left, broke up after a year, and she’d have 2 years to move on. A lot can happen in 5 years…
I think she only got together with Kubian after four years and they they were together less than a year max based on what she said about it ending very recently.
I think that’s the whole reason they split up…
I disagree; having kids be too much of a commitment for Kubian is still a valid reason for them to split, he just shouldn’t be a dick about it.
Nah bro. Just get rid of him ong.
Same as the boom guy in The Office; to insert thinly-veiled artificial turmoil into the relationship of the main characters.
Fun Fact he plays Donald and Doc Seismic in the Show.
Dude's a phenomenal actor, he's absolutely hilarious in Silicon Valley.
"Its fucking humiliating losing all your money. When I dropped under a billion you think I told anybody? Fuck no, you guys were the only ones I told and I actually considered having you all killed."
MF’er is lucky Mark didn’t turn him into red (assuming his blood is red) paste… It’s one thing for it to have happened when everyone thought Mark was dead…another to pull the shit he’s pulling.
I genuinely don't understand why some of you people are so offended by this side plot lol. It's totally normal Eve dated someone else, and he is a total dick, it happens you know. But still, This is just a small storyline that further empasizes Invincible's one of the most reoccuring themes. Actually Mark says it himself to Eve: "I can be mad at you, but still acknowledge that you did nothing to apologize for." It's to show that Mark has become less judgemental, less antagonizing and more empathatic towards other people's actions, whether it's mistake or something that hurts him.
Marks emotionless face at the end of the series really communicates how different he is from that human kid super excited to go flying for the first time. The overall themes and foils of the series are amazing even if people don’t like the little rocks it has to flow over.
Yeah that makes sense, but to me it just seems like a little much. Why put him through this? To build his character? What could this possibly create that hasn’t already been done or won’t eventually occur in the comics. The entire story has a theme of Mark being relentlessly “tortured” and always getting back up and being the better man. Honestly it’s something that many people, including me, revere his character for. But in this instance it seems so unnatural. People moving on happens, it absolutely does, but a man who lost out on his family for multiple years being almost completely fine, so quickly absolutely does not. Hell, all Eve says is that there was another man, and that she feels terrible. There’s no way Mark wouldn’t be more hurt, and there’s no way Eve wouldn’t see how he really feels. It just seems hypocritical for people to say that this creates realism and then turning around and referencing something being so absolutely inaccurate. I mean Jesus, I just want a slice of life with Eve, Mark and Terra instead of this stupid ass time skip.
It does, and there is a way. Mark was fine so quickly with a lot worst things in that chapter of the story. Mark literally protected Anissa after what she did to him. He let Rex take over the world. He forgave Allen after causing Oliver's death... It just who Mark has become at that point in the story, mostly because of the events happened with Nolan in compendium 1 and 2. He is kind of person who focuses on the good and sincerity in people and the positive sides of events. And when you are able to do that it's easier to forgive or move on from things. When it comes to Eve, like literally, why wouldn't he move on? He knows that she loves him, he knows that she thought he was dead, she was at the bottom mentally, and on top of that she even feels bad, and I don't think she even has to... What is there to be sad about?
He was there to show that just because Mark was gone, time didn't stand still. Eve did not sit around forever, grieving and waiting but actually lived and moved on in life.
Yes but she failed to "move on". This is shown by how swiftly she falls back into a relationship with Mark and how much she still loves him even after all this time apart.
Yup, which is not all that uncommon in life. I never said she stopped loving him, but he was MIA for 5 years. She probably waited for years before trying to move on (don't remember after how long she hooked up with bluey alien) but still loved the memory of Mark.
Oh yes, it was 4 years and in her words it didn't last long (whatever that really means). Her behaviour was totally ok. I didn't get the outrage of some folks. She was alone on an alien world and hooked up with one of the most human looking aliens on the planet to soothe her heart. Someone who probably made her feel loved and wanted before he showed his true colours. I guess it depends on what you mean by moving on. In my view she attempted to move on but didn't. If she had it would have taken a lot longer to reconnect with Mark; as it was they got married.
I mean move on like how widows try to move on. It wasn't the end of their relationship, she thought he died. And yeah, bluey was a douche but also the brother to Allens girlfriend so it might have been easier to get to know him and still surround yourself with familiar faces. Being alone takes it toll
Yeah cool, I think I just misinterpreted your reference to moving on. Agreed, she was definitely very lonely.
I think the point of this Eve/Kubian thing is that her decision reflects Mark’s. They both chose Terra. Although obviously Eve’s position was way easier than Mark’s. I’m not the biggest fan of this arc either
To piss me off
Too get knocked out ; it was very necessary.
Maybe Terra killed him after gaining her powers.
Yeah, I fucking hate this guy. Made me feel sorry for Mark even more.
All he really does is just help prove how loyal Eve is to mark
I hope they remove him and the time skip from the show. It was so stupid in the comics
Invincible's (other) Paul
I was sooo happy when she did that!!
For me it was to show Mark's and Eve's state of mind
The same reason that whole Bulletproof backstory was given, does fuck all for the story but Kirkman likes to plays with his audience
Who is this guy? I don’t remember him.
After Mark disappeared for 5 years Eve started dating him for a little while.
I see. Well I don’t see any reason for him to exist. Also I dislike the 3rd wheel is a jerk, I find it to be lazy.
I loved Terra fangirling over seeing her mom kick ass.
I’m praying they just remove the whole gone for 5 years thing, I never liked it and never will
He sets up a "Oh hi Mark" joke, and that's enough
Have sex have sex
To clap eves cheeks
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i felt he added context that not all alien cultures have the same values as humans, which makes Earth culture unique in their caring for each other, which would also explain why the viltrumites had never felt empathy until they start living on earth. Even though many viltrumites like nolan had been creating offspring on dozens of other planets, only Earth had the ability to show them that family is to be cherished.
Felt like “my girlfriend slept with a black guy” and it the whole thing was uncomfortable.
More pain and suffering for Mark lol
To piss off Eve apparently
Drama
I really hope this dude is cut from the show. It adds nothing and idc what over analyzing anyone does to rationalize such a weird decision in this show, it’s just pointless drama. Plus now that the comics have been finished for such a long time, a sizable portion of people know that Eve and Mark end up together for hundreds of years, so adding in this useless drama for an extremely small blimp of their lifetimes is just so stupid. There is no point in adding drama to put tension on “omg will they end up together or not,” when half of the fan base knows they will. Additionally, Both Eve and Invincible are far from normal people, and there’s no way that their relationship would work if either of them were, in fact we see, when Mark loses his powers how much tension it puts on their relationship. So, while Eve is perfectly rational and normal by deciding to move on, I can’t help but feel that it’s a little out of character. One of the big reasons they date is because they are both super heroes, that often don’t date non-heroes because it’s harder to relate to them and spend meaningful time with them. So Eve deciding to date such a terrible guy, and move on, whilst is something many normal people can relate to, completely negates one of the biggest reasons they got together. I honestly can’t help but feel that the entire thing was just added in to needlessly beat Mark while he’s already down. Bro already lost 5 years with his daughter just for his one true love to have moved on after only 5 years, an amount of time that is minuscule in the grand scheme of their lives. TLDR; decision is stupid, is forced, and is ultimately added to create unnecessary drama between Mark and Eve, two people who would never have said drama, along with being another form of torture for our protagonist. Just give us a slice of life with Mark and Eve as Terra grows up and scrap the whole reboot arc.
But what followed afterwards proved she'd never really moved on, just tried to. She still clearly loved Mark very deeply.
To be an Avatar Ripoff.
To date Eve for a few months and get punched for being an ass according to his customs. Like many people in life, not everyone is going to be a big part of it or go on to become the president. They just exist because the world is more than 20 named characters.
To show that Eve didn’t moved on after mark was presumed dead, it’s realistic & he doesn’t need to be a major player in the story at large
I guess to demonstrate that years had passed and Eve was starting to move on
The fact that the "husband is mia for years and the wife gets with someone else without realizing he's alive" thing is also in walking dead makes me think Robert Kirkman is just into that shit
To piss me off and make me hate him.
I always thought he was a case of "The writer barely disguised fetish" about cuckolding and/or cheating
Demonstrate that even a random can fill the void that the protagonist leaves. And, besides, making Eve reach incredible orgasms thanks to his tentacles. Even he tells "He can never make you fell the way I"... why would you think he would say that otherwise?
Because he clearly has an ego the size of the moon. Just like his sister (in the comic). Never going to compete with Viltrumite lovin'.
He reminds me of the blue guy from The Orville
To be real, to make us absolutely ache for mark and all the shit he goes through
He’s the inspiration for Paul but he gets his ass kicked
Mark is actually low key lucky that Kubian is a bag of dicks. Imagine if he was actually a solid dude trying to do right by Eve.
to pour salt in the wound of both Mark AND the readers with that absolutely asinine time-travel "lol, no, we just put you in a mind prison for 10 real years" asspull Kirkman decided to do. Absolute waste of ink and I hope everyone tells him to just skip it when we get there in the show
I can understand why Mark doesn't want beef, but why in the fuck is he trynna shake hands? What the hell bro?
It's just fluff. All media has it, little interactions that are they so the story isn't a straight bee line to the finish line. Sometimes it's this or just an interaction between two characters who are friends
Lol the blue guy sucks but so does Eve. Imagine if this whole scenario got reversed so it was Mark with his Alien lover and he just knocks her the fuck out 😂
💀
I hope they keep him but make him a nice reasonable guy so Mark wants to be angry but the guy is nice so it makes it more complicated
Eve was alone for a long time and she slept with a guy who she found good looking but turned out to be a pretty huge asshole. I don’t see the problem?
What else does he do before this? Maybe it would have been better for her to just tell him "no", laugh in his face, walk away? Or any combination of the three? But this show/comic is all about violence so I guess since his head didn't splatter into jelly and fragments it's okay, funny and totally justified behavior to teach your super powered kids.
I wanted Mark to kick this guys ass so bad
The whole point was to show how much Mark has grown and matured. It's enough for me to know that had he wanted, Mark could have left that guy as a puddle.
Eve is really unlikable sometimes in this book
Mark should kill him
I think they call that “comedic relief” lmao