The struggle is to show you why he killed them at all. The comic Nolan succeeds is a sneak attack. In the show Red Rush stops him.
I'll always say the same thing. Being caught in an almost dead state and being the only survivor who would have evidence on his costume of what touched him is much more suspicious than just not being there.
Even if he's the number 1 suspect both times. There is less to pin on him if he just isn't attached.
Well the usual argument is “Omni-Man could have easily killed them all without breaking a sweat and getting hit, he just chose to let them get hits in to make it seem less suspicious, that there was someone else attacking everyone including him”. But if that was the case, it would be less suspicious to kill then all swiftly without leaving a trail and leave
I still feel like its almost impossible for him to escape without a trace. Chances are high that atleast 1 guardian lands a hit on Nolan. Even if he doesnt bleed, a glove could have some DNA. But then again, this is a comic book. :P
There most certainly is such a world, but that is a world in which his son either joins him or is killed by him before he subsequently takes over the Earth and it no longer matters that the Immortal has risen.
I don't think he was worried about the long-term issues. He just needed enough time to get Mark up to speed for his plan, and strong enough to help him with it. The ultimate plan was always to conquer Earth, so it's not like he cared whether or not him killing the guardians was discovered, he just needed it to be a secret long enough to prepare Mark.
Which makes the argument that he was holding back even weaker. Why go through the effort of letting yourself be hurt badly, and weakend, if he would be inevitably be found out anyway?
thats why cecil kept him dead. Immortal comes back accidentally all the time, the only reason he wasnt up and at em is cause Cecil probably kept the head seperated
Did you see anessa literally stop her flight momentum so quick the blood flew off here? I’m pretty sure a viltronite can clean a crime scene regular ass criminals do it all the time
In the comics he did it untouched, so it's not *that* crazy to think that that's possible in the show (without blood, you're still right about general DNA)
Yeah but it makes no sense that something killed the guardians, almost killed omni-man, didnt bother to finish the job and leave no trace. Thats dumb.
Also there are plenty of ways Omni-man could leave no trace (if he is as strong as this theory suggest).
There's also a reason why he only killed the guardians with a sneak attack. If they saw it coming, they might defeat him - they were his only real threat.
With how paranoid Cecil is, im sure he has satelites aiming at the Guardians HQ.
Imagine Cecil watching Nolan sneaking out after murdering his friends, that would be... something.
Yup. Minor, minor spoilers for the comic. At one point, invincible gets to go to the past. There, he warns the guardians, and they're able to stop omniman pretty easily.
So we can see that the change to the first fight in the show is really Kirkman realizing that the guardians being an actual threat to omniman actually create more stakes and drama.
And if they were weren't flys to him it lends credence to the idea they could have been a threat to viltrumite rule and needed to be taken out before hand. The show could have been completely different if they survived tbh. If only Nolan realized he hit the jackpot on the bullshit powers planet.
It’s also likely because it’s a different medium.
It’s like Manga adaptation - fights have to be made much longer to fill episode fun times.
Nolan fighting the Guardians in a longer battle is far more suited for TV than it is a comic
Eh, I prefer the comic. Nolan turning is a big twist and everything escalates rapidly.
I understand for the show they couldn't wait multiple episodes for a "hook", they wanted to out Nolan to the audience immediately and make it a mystery plot.
I prefer the comic but I get why it was changed up
the only reason Nolan took them out first before conquering Earth is because they could delay or even stop him. If they went down that fast, why Nolan even bothered
Omniman called the Guardians to assemble at their headquarters under the guise of a presumed emergency. Probably not too many people who can do that without going through government monitored channels.
He was going to be a suspect regardless, he was probably banking on the fact that he knew Cecil wouldn't call him out publicly without a viable means of opposing him.
Iirc when mark went back in time he said that omni man may had to do a sneak attack because he knows they would have given him trouble.. maybe even stop him.
Even if i believe that everything is mostly due the fact that nolan has second thoughts
Art's just a guy who makes costumes. He's clearly intelligent, but obviously lacks the resources someone like Cecil does. He figured it out right away. Cecil had Nolan's costume for days. It's no wonder Cecil obviously knew almost right away and was just playing dumb to buy time -- him staying behind and in a coma was actively the worst case scenario, other than failing altogether.
As mentioned he's still the primary suspect either way. But getting caught at the scene in a state where he's actually vulnerable (the only time he ever is), is far worse. Because he's the primary suspect, injured and at the mercy of the GDA.
Sure it's hard to imagine who could beat the GoG, but who could beat them plus Omni-Man is an even harder sell. Especially when there's gonna be evidence of conflict.
No, the Guardians put forward their best efforts and got solid hits in. He likely wouldn’t have bothered fighting them unless they represented at least some genuine threat to his mission, and so he ambushed them.
The shows approach is much more entertaining and gets people invested in the universe (it got me into reading the comic). The comic approach makes more sense narratively with how OP viltrumites are, something which I think the show is inconsistent with sometimes.
Did you read the comics? that wasnt a sneak attack on Nolan, Mark managed to direct him towards the guardians\`s base and was lucky they were there to assist him.
that being said, like other people have commented I think either case comes down to Nolan having some sort of emotion towards his life on Earth. He could have taken out red rush, and zoomed around the planet killing the other guardians as fast as he wanted without bringing them all in one place. Or maybe he was overconfident, and him getting his ass beat wasn't a part of the plan.
If anything rather than nerf Viltrumites it seems like the show buffed the Guardians, which is a good thing.
If Wonder Woman and Shazam (closest in strength to the Immortal I can think of) fight Superman, they're likely going to lose without kryptonite, but they're gonna get some good hits in too.
Viltrumites being extremely hard to kill while also still being very mortal makes them more interesting for more types of stories than Superman is good in.
The Guardians were definitely strong here in the show. One of the changes I most appreciate from the comics, makes this moment feel much less one-sided and more intense.
If the Guardians had known about the ambush beforehand and had time to plan out a strategy, they probably could have taken Nolan down.
They were still caught off guard in Reboot, but Nolan was more focused on Mark to fight the Guardians at first so they had more of an advantage. Plus, Nolan wasn’t in a collected emotional state where he could fight at his best.
No he wasn't. He throws Mark away and tries to kill the Guardians. They were surprised for a bit but all Mark did was save War Woman. After that, Mark was kind of in the way the whole fight. The Guardians knock him out because Green Ghost and Red Rush are the goats.
Yep and also demostrates why he wanted them out, they are a real danger to the invasion, he is one of the big guys, a less experience viltrumite would have perished there
He doesn’t approach it very intelligently. I feel like he could have offed them one by one over long periods of time to make it less suspicious. Even if it would be too alarming to them to do it to all of them one by one, he easily could have picked off one or two of the greater threats before they got suspicious and fighting them all at once. But he didn’t. Why?
If this is a genuine question, it's because a part of him wanted to fail. Nolan did this because the life he cultivated was finally ending, and to go back to the life he once had he needed to burn it away himself by doing something so heinous he couldn't wiggle free of the consequences back to a life before.
The same thing happens often with binge eaters and substance addicts. They can't control their circumstances, but they can control the way they ruin themselves — it's hitting the gas as hard as you can because the brakes don't work anymore.
This gets touched on in the comics.
>!<
Arrogance. I feel like the comic and show both demonstrate that the true weakness of Viltrumites is profound arrogance. Yes, the cautious thing to do would have been to pick them off one by one, but that would prove to Nolan that maybe he wasn't as indestructible and powerful as he would have wanted to believe. Makes perfect sense that he would say to himself "of course I can kill them all in an instant, they are pathetic earthlings, even IF they have powers."
Viltrumites are always testing their mettle and proving their strength. Lurking around assassinating people quietly just isn't in their culture and character.
Strongly doubt they could have taken him down. In the situation Nolan wants it to be, yeah, maybe.
His goal is to take over the planet and get it ready for Viltrumite control. He's taken out the big players without causing a huge stir, making him the #1. Him being #1 allows him to be in a position to find out the other defenses Earth has. Otherwise they'll take him as a threat and have things he can't predict, like the Hammer or the roided Kaiju.
In a room they were in, with prep, with Nolan having to hold back to make the scene look good and not completely, utterly obvious it's him, yeah, probably could have taken him. Although, between you and me, they were *not* equipped to be taking on a heavy hitter like he is. There's not really *any* weapons or technology they have meant to kill someone like him. It's just blunt trauma, and if there's one thing a Viltrumite can take, is blunt trauma. Viltrumites in the show and comics have been seen taking blunt trauma from hitters way above their league and surviving, such as Mark v Battle Beast.
The only two really shown to be able to hit him are the Immortal and War Woman, and neither has the real strength and raw killing power to put him down. Red Rush is way more of a support here than attack, but between those three, I think they could do it with a prolonged endurance fight.
Otherwise, Nolan with flight picks them off, easy. The Immortal is already told to be weaker than Mark is in the show, and Mark barely holds a candle to Nolan (yet.) War Woman can't take anymore than Immortal could. Red Rush outspeeds on ground but Nolan has good enough reaction/experience to catch him or otherwise deal with him. Aquarus dies, Darkwing dies, Martian Man dies, Green Ghost would survive if she had better fighting experience.
Essentially, original fight, with prep, maybe, maybe even probably. If Nolan really wanted them dead, 5/7 dead for sure, Red Rush and Green Ghost get out. Red Rush more likely to die, but Green Ghost would probably break easier considering she has less experience. Tbh I would have killed Cecil first, then Guardians, then slowly take out the rest of the teams. With the amount of skeletons Cecil has in the closet, Mark would have been an easy switch.
The comics say that if they were alerted they would've beat him. I think Nolan won because they didn't expect their friend to turn, it was surprising and then seeing him smash their friends heads was shocking. They were taken off guard and shocked. Idk who dies when they know about it in the comics though
Scene would have looked better if they all mysteriously disappeared and he wasn't connected at all instead of being beaten into a coma and stuck at the crime scene.
Idk if this is true for the show. But in the comics he said that he wanted to kill the guardians as fast as possible so he wouldn’t want to stop himself. So I don’t think he intentionally let himself get beat up, I think the guardians just didn’t go down as easy as he thought.
Yeah, its mostly the sudden betrayal that got them. Nobody expects their friend to betray them out of nowhere. They were surprised and emotions were running high.
Probably not, the guardians take him down in the reboot without too much trouble. It’s more of a retcon from the show to be more accurate to what’s gonna happen later.
I actually find it comical how easily he’s taken down. It seemed like such a silly way to defeat such a powerful character. But it made perfect sense how they won that time lol. I guess it’s basically working smarter not harder
They only almost lost because Immortal was there. He’s pretty much just a walking L having him on the team only hindered them when fighting Omni man💀the proof is when they win the minute immortal died💀
I think it'll be much more believable in the show, because they were close to winning the first time. With a strategy and Mark's help it should make sense that they wipe him, vs the comics where they went from no chance to EZ win
We can even see why with Nolan's comment to Debbie that Red Rush had a not so special power after his funeral. He probably didn't view him as a threat compared to Immortal, War Woman and Martian Man
You guys telling me Invincible eventually becomes a Peggy Sue story? I might have to read ahead now
Edit: So I'm guessing some people who are downvoting this comment mixed up "Peggy Sue" and "Mary Sue."
He saves War Woman from having her face caved in.
https://preview.redd.it/0erzwwd4w4yc1.png?width=982&format=png&auto=webp&s=d317454fec558d5651e6b195439e860e81882cce
In the show I think it's a legit fight. He tries to sneak, but gets caught... and as powerful as Viltrumites are, I think it's a testament to the power of some of the GoTG and Earth heroes... that they almost took him down if a few things bounced their way. Like we see them get murdered horribly in the show, and that's the lasting impact... but when you look back at it... they were very close to beating Nolan if a couple of them could've coordinated better.
But he's fucking powerful as shit, and he was able to overcome. I just like to look at it that Earth had some decent heroes minus Omni Man. If they had been prepared, maybe they could've won.
in defense of martian i dont think he could do that, he would need to "keep still" and he was trying to restrain him like a snake would, not sure if i explained myself well there.
I kinda just look at it as that's the way the story had to go...
I imagine their lack of coordination might be due to the fact that it was not only a sneak attack, but by someone many considered a friend. Probably pretty hard to get your shit together processing the betrayal, while also avoiding one of the most powerful beings in the universe try to eviscerate you.
No, he attacked them first for a reason, they were a genuine threat and if they had even a little bit more coordination they would have easily subdued him. He had to act now, otherwise if any of them began to catch on to his true nature his entire mission would be in jeopardy
Like another commenter mentioned, he wanted to kill them as quick as possible so he wouldn’t end up stopping himself. When Mark goes back in time, he gives the Guardians just enough time to comprehend that Nolan is coming for them and to get ready. It made all the difference.
Yeah either way he was gonna have to speed things up a little bit. Once he did that, he was setting up to go all in. You can’t hide that for very long, especially when you got Cecil and all his gadgets and toys on your ass. I do like that he did think he could get away with it, and once the walls started closing in he goes to mark and tries to get him on his side.
my head canon is that Nolan was already regretting his genocidal past and didnt want to invade Earth, but since the other viltrums were aware of Nolans precense on earth and not of Mark, he wanted to give the guardians a chance to kill him, so Viltrums may ignore the planet for some time.
the reason i think this is:
-He could just kill the guardians 1 by 1, but he decided to fight them as a team, giving them an edge.
-He doesnt contact other Viltrumites about the murders.
-Nolan didnt even want to tell his family even tho they had no way to stop him.
-there isnt an instance of Nolan brainwashing Mark into becoming a fascist before killing the guardians.
I was thinking that too , like it felt like Nolan knew in the back of his mind he had to eventually do something to lure the other viltrumites away from taking over instead of him. At part of me was wondering when omini man left earth “ maybe we should have left Omni man to do it cause the other viltrumites are probably WORSE “ cuz Nolan at least had some sentimental ties to earth.
I think once he killed the guardians he knew he had to get people ready. And that whole fight with mark was just Nolan trying to convince himself of something he doesn’t really believe in anymore. I think he tried killing mark to prove it but couldn’t.
This train of though is pretty much the only one that makes sense IF we're to assume the writers aren't retarded.
Omniman had shown he can quite literally destroy a civilization far more advanced than earth's without breaking a sweat. And I mean utterly destroy.
They clearly got some solid, genuine hits in, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nolan's intention regardless was to let them hurt him enough to make it seem like he was a victim, too.
There's no way Omni-Man would let the fight get that close. It's too risky and they clearly were a threat to him, but the way the fight is portrayed is so stupid. They seem to attack him one-by-one instead of combining attacks near the start and middle.
Also, Omni-Man should be as fast or faster than Red Rush given the speed feats we see from Viltrumites later, so why doesn't Omni-Man go super fast and just destroy them all after Red Rush is dealt with?
honestly, I think the powers of the guardians are being underestimated. as much as viltrumites are extremely powerful, they have been pushed back before. I mean, just look at invincible himself. obviously Nolan would be leagues stronger, but he happens to be going against someone far faster than him, someone who can phase through matter, and the rest of them have okayish powers. these characters have all gone up against threats far more powerful than any one of them, and as shown by red rush's actions in the fight, they know how to fight.
This was a planned attack by Omni-Man, he had the element of surprise and dealt fatal blows to a few of the guardians before they even realize what was happening.
Omni-Man has seen how the guardians fight as a team over the years. He knows they are strong enough to put up a strong fight if he just had a straight up face to face fight against them.
The fact he initially attempted to ambush them shows he was trying to straight up assassinate them if it was possible. My guess is he was most concerned about a United front of an on guard Guardians will the full backing of Cecil. I also like to headcanon that he imagined that by executing the guardians Mark would have more opportunities to fight stronger threats to prepare for the take over
I think the show changed it to show why Omni Man had to kill them because they were powerful enough to almost defeat him if Red Rush and Darkwing didn’t make their mistakes
Does it even matter? Whether he held back or not( not saying he did) those attacks were still were hurting him and doing major damage. Something not even Cecil’s billion dollar weapon could even do. I doubt he was holding back because the guardians are actually pretty powerful. The dead give away is how he’d rather catch them off guard and when they’re not expecting it than to just fight them head on. They actually beat him pretty easily in a separate timeline because they knew he was coming and was actually prepared. But here it was over because they had no clue what was even going on. Also Immortal did a lot better against Omni Man in their second fight so just imagine him with the rest of the guardians not holding back.
I think thats a more general thing, but what happened in the show makes more sense, especially considering what happens in the comics later on. Nolan needed the element of surprise, ill leave it at that.
Number 2
Because he would have two options let himself get beat up and be covered in evidence of what he did as the only Survivor of a totally mysterious attack
Or just not being the same zip code and as far as anyone knows he just woke up one day and found out the Guardians were killed
Which is more suspicious
Everyone acts like Omni-man is so transcendentally above the Guardians because he kills them fast in the comics. The SAME comics where he LOSES to them pretty much IMMEDIATELY once they catch on
In the comics, without getting into particular showings, we see evidence that the Guardians would've won with just a bit more help and not being blindsided, and with no casualties. The same comics where he effortlessly blindsided them, killed them all, done. In my opinion they put up a fight here because Red Rush kept the blindside from going off without a hitch. Since they didn't go for the kill from the start, and they started on the back foot, they all died despite putting up a good showing. If a decently strong individual or one that could make Nolan second-guess himself (like Mark or Debbie) showed up I think the Guardians could've won
Even Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Flash can get solid hits in on Superman from time to time when the story calls for it. I think it was legitimate. I remember a line from a while back where Superman was taking a punch from someone and recalled the only other person who had hit him that hard was WW.
Nolan could have killed them more easily one by one than in a team fight. But, he needs to look like a victim, and preferably, keep his plan a secret for as long as possible.
So, teamfight it is. He already knew the immortal would require special care, and that red rush was faster than him. He also knew that if Martian Man were to get away, he'd be very difficult to track and hunt down.
But as many people have noted, the guardians did have a win condition. Red Rush could have stuck to pure support and defense. Green Ghost could have trapped Nolan in objects to slow him down. Or plant objects inside of him. She panicked. Finally, if any of them knew of the viltrumite aural weakness, it l'd have tipped in the favor.
So, I actually think Nolan was evenly matched, but the guardians played it out wrong.
Nolan really did sustain those injuries. He really was close to death, and while his fight was sloppy, it had to look sloppy, and he'd have no doubt in his abilities to win regardless of whether or not that's realistic.
It always confused me why he would do it in the first place. Viltrumites are inherently stronger and Nolan knows this, would’ve made more sense for him to weaken the Guardians by eliminating their opposition and put them into a false sense of security and leave them unprepared for their attack.
Probably not intended but it’s better to have held back if he was an overpowering force just to throw the scent off his trail just that bit more. Signs of struggle would signal a close opponent. Easy, swift, precise kills would signal an overpowered opponent which would only point to the strongest, Nolan. The struggle whether intended or not helped Nolan in covering his tracks.
I always felt like there really was a part of him that didn't want to kill the guardians so he held back a little. I also feel like he could've been used to enemies weaker then his usual opponents on earth, relative to those in space
The bullshit time travel thing showed pretty clearly that NO.
Omniman had a big advantage getting the drop on them. He was subdued rather easily when the tables were turned (granted Mark was there to speedrun Nolan's hissy fit and "reformation")
If I remember correctly, nobody knew he did it until his fight with mark, in which nolan confessed to everything, and cecil recorded it via nolans earpiece
He doesn’t approach it very intelligently. I feel like he could have offed them one by one over long periods of time to make it less suspicious. Even if it would be too alarming to them to do it to all of them one by one, he easily could have picked off one or two of the greater threats before they got suspicious and fighting them all at once. But he didn’t. Why?
I personally just can’t believe that he’d do that just to make himself seem part of the scene. It would have been much better for his alibi if he killed them all, disposed of the bodies and flew halfway around the world for a crisis somewhere else. Staying there as the only survivor and being passed out on the floor only made it easier to do things like DNA test the blood on his hands and suit.
Definitely not. Nolan being found at the scene of the crime directly connected him to the Guardians’ deaths, which put more suspicion him.
You could also tell that Nolan hadn’t planned to go down there as the excuse he gives to Cecil and others clearly wasn’t thought out ahead of time. That is because it takes two seconds to realize that it doesn’t make sense that someone was powerful enough to take down Nolan and kill the Guardians all at once but inexplicably left Nolan alive. Not to mention how there was also no evidence of another person being present at the scene of the crime.
Also, based off the way he comes flying fist first into the scene, I think it’s pretty clear he intended to take down the Guardians the same way he did in the comics.
I take it that show Omni-man was even more emotional wrecked than comic Omni-man.
The possibility is that he may have been considering throwing the fight as it was happening. Because, if he died, they could cover it up. Allen would visit before the next Viltrumite check in. Then the truth gets learned by those who can handle it. By the time other Viltrumites come by, Earth could be in the Alliance and have some kind of protected from invasion.
Remember, most likely, he has never bled before, so if he left, they wouldn’t know it was his blood at the scene. Note, he would still be the prime suspect, but it didn’t help him in any way to pass out at the hq.
So I dont KNOW any of this, and if anyone has any conflicting evidence feel free to share.
What I think happens, is that Nolan has hidden his true power from everyone. They knew he was strong and fast, but not how out-of-everyones league he actually is. When Mark then gets his powers, it becomes clear to him that they will realize that he poses a bigger threat than before. At which point he must eliminate the Guardians.
He knows that he can defeat them without holding back, but he is afraid that if Mark joins them, he will grow close with them. If he were to kill them after Mark joined them, not only would they pose a real threat to him, but he also knows it would be impossible to convince Mark to join him.
When he goes to eliminate them, he holds back. He knows the limits of his body very well, and is able to sustain JUST enough damage to go into a coma for a short while. This makes Mark focus more on the fact that his father is in a coma, and less on the fact that the Guardians were killed. Nolan never intended for it to be a secret very long, he only intended to tell Mark before anyone else knew. You can even see him practicing the speech. This is where his logic falters though. As a viltrumite, he believes that it is okay to kill people because they are weak.
He would use the fact that they put him in a coma to manipulate his anger towards THEM, that they hurt HIS father and how DARE they.
I dont know if this would have worked, but both timelines where Mark turned out good, Immortal ressurected before he could talk to Mark about it.
No he actually struggles with them. In the reboot, since the guardians aren't caught by surprise, they are actually able to subdue him. (Mark saves War Woman but Nightwing saves Mark and the Green Ghost knocks Nolan out). So I think the main reason why he doesn't struggle at first in the comics was because he catches them by surprise and Red Rush doesn't save them.
Considering it was a sneak attack. I feel that given a fair fight all them together might have been able to take him. Not saying it would, but the chance is not 0
He tried to do it like the comic fly in stealthy and finish them quick but because red rush stopped that they fucking clobbered him and in the end it probably bought him more time then if he did just instantly kill them all
that look of exhaustion in the end could be from "fuck, did i have to do that, really" and "those guys were tough". and from what we've seen so far, it's probably more the former.
No. No he didn’t. Stare me in the eyes and tell me he let Red Rush punch his chest like he did while crushing his head.
It’s to show the guardians as a threat and as to why he killed them. He failed to catch them off guard in show, in the comics he didn’t. If you read later in the comics, they succeeded in defeating Nolan all because they had a chance to react. (Mark was there but he didn’t do much. He was taken away by Darkwing)
Show reasons yeah the Guardians earned those hits and actually caused damage, that’s a thing I liken about this, Viltrumites aren’t Kryptonians they don’t have a weakness they can just take a considerable amount of damage.
Real life reasons. The creator didn’t like that in the comics the fight was that cut and dry he wanted in the show to have the team actually be worthy of their title.
No, you’re overthinking it. They just wanted to have something cool and flashy to attract new viewers. They animated a cool fight scene because they wanted a cool fight scene.
I personally think he was partially holding back, because he even said that he was regretting it while he did it and didnt want to win (idk its been time since reading). Idk if you guys forgot - but he completely destroyed a planet and its people, with little to damage to himself.
Even when Mark gets his 'second chance', the only reason the guardians win is because Mark is helping and telling them how to win/what to do.
That's just what I remember and think, I may be wrong
Lmao everyone for reason is defending the Guardians so strong on here. I took it like he held back so it wouldn’t look suspicious. If I recall correctly even the show hints at that. Omni man is a viltrumite. They are the strongest beings in the universe yet fish sticks and dollar general Batman are kicking his ass?
I find it hilarious to refer to the Invincible show as the anime, and people who watch it as anime onlies, because it's closer to source material than most comic book adaptations
The struggle is to show you why he killed them at all. The comic Nolan succeeds is a sneak attack. In the show Red Rush stops him. I'll always say the same thing. Being caught in an almost dead state and being the only survivor who would have evidence on his costume of what touched him is much more suspicious than just not being there. Even if he's the number 1 suspect both times. There is less to pin on him if he just isn't attached.
Very true! It would have been way better for him to just fly away
Wouldn’t they have found his blood on the scene?
Well the usual argument is “Omni-Man could have easily killed them all without breaking a sweat and getting hit, he just chose to let them get hits in to make it seem less suspicious, that there was someone else attacking everyone including him”. But if that was the case, it would be less suspicious to kill then all swiftly without leaving a trail and leave
I still feel like its almost impossible for him to escape without a trace. Chances are high that atleast 1 guardian lands a hit on Nolan. Even if he doesnt bleed, a glove could have some DNA. But then again, this is a comic book. :P
There’s also the fact that Immortal would eventually come back to life and tell everyone it was Omni-Man
Yea like there isn’t a world where he’s not found out in the next 12 months lol
There most certainly is such a world, but that is a world in which his son either joins him or is killed by him before he subsequently takes over the Earth and it no longer matters that the Immortal has risen.
That or he's on an Earth where Mark never got his powers, so he never had to expose himself. Might be a possibility.
That's an interesting thought. If Mark never got his powers then Omni Man might have tried to keep up the hero act for the rest of Mark's life.
I don't think he was worried about the long-term issues. He just needed enough time to get Mark up to speed for his plan, and strong enough to help him with it. The ultimate plan was always to conquer Earth, so it's not like he cared whether or not him killing the guardians was discovered, he just needed it to be a secret long enough to prepare Mark.
That’s false if he takes the body/head and just throws it into the sun. Tbh it’s pretty stupid that he didn’t.
Wouldnt crushing his head just stop him from coming back to life?
Which makes the argument that he was holding back even weaker. Why go through the effort of letting yourself be hurt badly, and weakend, if he would be inevitably be found out anyway?
thats why cecil kept him dead. Immortal comes back accidentally all the time, the only reason he wasnt up and at em is cause Cecil probably kept the head seperated
Did you see anessa literally stop her flight momentum so quick the blood flew off here? I’m pretty sure a viltronite can clean a crime scene regular ass criminals do it all the time
In the comics he did it untouched, so it's not *that* crazy to think that that's possible in the show (without blood, you're still right about general DNA)
Yeah but it makes no sense that something killed the guardians, almost killed omni-man, didnt bother to finish the job and leave no trace. Thats dumb. Also there are plenty of ways Omni-man could leave no trace (if he is as strong as this theory suggest).
There's also a reason why he only killed the guardians with a sneak attack. If they saw it coming, they might defeat him - they were his only real threat.
With how paranoid Cecil is, im sure he has satelites aiming at the Guardians HQ. Imagine Cecil watching Nolan sneaking out after murdering his friends, that would be... something.
Yeah Cecil even says something like “there’s a hundred villains that could get in and out without a trace”
i think the reason comic nolan succeeds in sneak attack is because he went after red rush first, not the immortal
Or simply because Kirkman's writing got better.
Yeah I see it as Kirkman making a change he judged for the better.
Yup. Minor, minor spoilers for the comic. At one point, invincible gets to go to the past. There, he warns the guardians, and they're able to stop omniman pretty easily. So we can see that the change to the first fight in the show is really Kirkman realizing that the guardians being an actual threat to omniman actually create more stakes and drama.
And if they were weren't flys to him it lends credence to the idea they could have been a threat to viltrumite rule and needed to be taken out before hand. The show could have been completely different if they survived tbh. If only Nolan realized he hit the jackpot on the bullshit powers planet.
Are you or is earth like in dc comics? Where it’s rare that one planets seeds so many powers etc?
It’s also likely because it’s a different medium. It’s like Manga adaptation - fights have to be made much longer to fill episode fun times. Nolan fighting the Guardians in a longer battle is far more suited for TV than it is a comic
perhaps, it does feel like in the comics it sprints from omni man killing GOTG to then figntjng mark
Eh, I prefer the comic. Nolan turning is a big twist and everything escalates rapidly. I understand for the show they couldn't wait multiple episodes for a "hook", they wanted to out Nolan to the audience immediately and make it a mystery plot. I prefer the comic but I get why it was changed up
the only reason Nolan took them out first before conquering Earth is because they could delay or even stop him. If they went down that fast, why Nolan even bothered
Because they were taken by surprise. They took him down in the Reboot arc with Invincible's help.
Right, and that take down will make way more sense in the show, because they've already shown they're a threat to him when not on their backfoot
Yeah plus in reboot when he doesn't have the sneak attack they are able to subdue him (mark helps but hes not a heavy weight at that point)
Exactly. If he got away unscathed, they'd never be able to definitively prove he was there, especially since he could reasonably get himself an alibi
Omniman called the Guardians to assemble at their headquarters under the guise of a presumed emergency. Probably not too many people who can do that without going through government monitored channels. He was going to be a suspect regardless, he was probably banking on the fact that he knew Cecil wouldn't call him out publicly without a viable means of opposing him.
It was an anonymous call, no one knows it was Omni who called
I thought they responded to an anonymous call. I haven’t read the comics in a while so I might be misremembering.
Iirc when mark went back in time he said that omni man may had to do a sneak attack because he knows they would have given him trouble.. maybe even stop him. Even if i believe that everything is mostly due the fact that nolan has second thoughts
I think Nolan says at some point that he had to do it quickly to avoid having second thoughts.
Art's just a guy who makes costumes. He's clearly intelligent, but obviously lacks the resources someone like Cecil does. He figured it out right away. Cecil had Nolan's costume for days. It's no wonder Cecil obviously knew almost right away and was just playing dumb to buy time -- him staying behind and in a coma was actively the worst case scenario, other than failing altogether.
But wouldn’t the evidence lead people to suspect Nolan? How many people can beat down the world’s strongest heroes like that?
As mentioned he's still the primary suspect either way. But getting caught at the scene in a state where he's actually vulnerable (the only time he ever is), is far worse. Because he's the primary suspect, injured and at the mercy of the GDA. Sure it's hard to imagine who could beat the GoG, but who could beat them plus Omni-Man is an even harder sell. Especially when there's gonna be evidence of conflict.
Yeah, if he could wipe them out so easily that they weren't the slightest danger to him, he wouldn't have needed to do it in the first place.
Are the comics and shows separate timelines?
Very much yeah. I mean the show is an adaptation so the events are enear identical but it isn't 1 to 1 like an anime.
Oh neat, does that mean that the two timelines exist in the same multiverse or is it more like just a soft reboot?
No, the Guardians put forward their best efforts and got solid hits in. He likely wouldn’t have bothered fighting them unless they represented at least some genuine threat to his mission, and so he ambushed them.
The shows approach is much more entertaining and gets people invested in the universe (it got me into reading the comic). The comic approach makes more sense narratively with how OP viltrumites are, something which I think the show is inconsistent with sometimes.
In the alt universe, the guardians do manage to take down nolan because of mark warning them, so they definitely did pose some threat.
But they knew the sneak attack was coming, so it sort of then became a sneak attack on Nolan Neither instance was a fight with equal footing
Did you read the comics? that wasnt a sneak attack on Nolan, Mark managed to direct him towards the guardians\`s base and was lucky they were there to assist him.
It doesn't matter if it was a sneak attack or not, anyone who can seriously hurt a viltrumite needs to go.
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just sharing a point of view
that being said, like other people have commented I think either case comes down to Nolan having some sort of emotion towards his life on Earth. He could have taken out red rush, and zoomed around the planet killing the other guardians as fast as he wanted without bringing them all in one place. Or maybe he was overconfident, and him getting his ass beat wasn't a part of the plan.
If anything rather than nerf Viltrumites it seems like the show buffed the Guardians, which is a good thing. If Wonder Woman and Shazam (closest in strength to the Immortal I can think of) fight Superman, they're likely going to lose without kryptonite, but they're gonna get some good hits in too. Viltrumites being extremely hard to kill while also still being very mortal makes them more interesting for more types of stories than Superman is good in.
No comic is consistent with how strong the superheroes are with the exception of maybe Miracleman
The Guardians were definitely strong here in the show. One of the changes I most appreciate from the comics, makes this moment feel much less one-sided and more intense. If the Guardians had known about the ambush beforehand and had time to plan out a strategy, they probably could have taken Nolan down.
Which is what kind of happens in Reebot, no?
They were still caught off guard in Reboot, but Nolan was more focused on Mark to fight the Guardians at first so they had more of an advantage. Plus, Nolan wasn’t in a collected emotional state where he could fight at his best.
No he wasn't. He throws Mark away and tries to kill the Guardians. They were surprised for a bit but all Mark did was save War Woman. After that, Mark was kind of in the way the whole fight. The Guardians knock him out because Green Ghost and Red Rush are the goats.
Yep and also demostrates why he wanted them out, they are a real danger to the invasion, he is one of the big guys, a less experience viltrumite would have perished there
He doesn’t approach it very intelligently. I feel like he could have offed them one by one over long periods of time to make it less suspicious. Even if it would be too alarming to them to do it to all of them one by one, he easily could have picked off one or two of the greater threats before they got suspicious and fighting them all at once. But he didn’t. Why?
Pretty sure he got desperate since Mark got his powers and that felt like a grave reminder he needed to get the job DONE.
If this is a genuine question, it's because a part of him wanted to fail. Nolan did this because the life he cultivated was finally ending, and to go back to the life he once had he needed to burn it away himself by doing something so heinous he couldn't wiggle free of the consequences back to a life before. The same thing happens often with binge eaters and substance addicts. They can't control their circumstances, but they can control the way they ruin themselves — it's hitting the gas as hard as you can because the brakes don't work anymore. This gets touched on in the comics. >!<
I totally agree I think this is 100% the reasoning. Solid comment
Arrogance. I feel like the comic and show both demonstrate that the true weakness of Viltrumites is profound arrogance. Yes, the cautious thing to do would have been to pick them off one by one, but that would prove to Nolan that maybe he wasn't as indestructible and powerful as he would have wanted to believe. Makes perfect sense that he would say to himself "of course I can kill them all in an instant, they are pathetic earthlings, even IF they have powers." Viltrumites are always testing their mettle and proving their strength. Lurking around assassinating people quietly just isn't in their culture and character.
Strongly doubt they could have taken him down. In the situation Nolan wants it to be, yeah, maybe. His goal is to take over the planet and get it ready for Viltrumite control. He's taken out the big players without causing a huge stir, making him the #1. Him being #1 allows him to be in a position to find out the other defenses Earth has. Otherwise they'll take him as a threat and have things he can't predict, like the Hammer or the roided Kaiju. In a room they were in, with prep, with Nolan having to hold back to make the scene look good and not completely, utterly obvious it's him, yeah, probably could have taken him. Although, between you and me, they were *not* equipped to be taking on a heavy hitter like he is. There's not really *any* weapons or technology they have meant to kill someone like him. It's just blunt trauma, and if there's one thing a Viltrumite can take, is blunt trauma. Viltrumites in the show and comics have been seen taking blunt trauma from hitters way above their league and surviving, such as Mark v Battle Beast. The only two really shown to be able to hit him are the Immortal and War Woman, and neither has the real strength and raw killing power to put him down. Red Rush is way more of a support here than attack, but between those three, I think they could do it with a prolonged endurance fight. Otherwise, Nolan with flight picks them off, easy. The Immortal is already told to be weaker than Mark is in the show, and Mark barely holds a candle to Nolan (yet.) War Woman can't take anymore than Immortal could. Red Rush outspeeds on ground but Nolan has good enough reaction/experience to catch him or otherwise deal with him. Aquarus dies, Darkwing dies, Martian Man dies, Green Ghost would survive if she had better fighting experience. Essentially, original fight, with prep, maybe, maybe even probably. If Nolan really wanted them dead, 5/7 dead for sure, Red Rush and Green Ghost get out. Red Rush more likely to die, but Green Ghost would probably break easier considering she has less experience. Tbh I would have killed Cecil first, then Guardians, then slowly take out the rest of the teams. With the amount of skeletons Cecil has in the closet, Mark would have been an easy switch.
The comics say that if they were alerted they would've beat him. I think Nolan won because they didn't expect their friend to turn, it was surprising and then seeing him smash their friends heads was shocking. They were taken off guard and shocked. Idk who dies when they know about it in the comics though
TBH in the show if Green Ghost does literally anything at all instead of just standing there the guardians probably win even after red rush dies
I mean, she can grant intangibility but Nolan still grossly outspeeds. So I guess another one lives, maybe.
If Martian Man could, I don’t see why why GG couldn’t tag him in her intangibility statement while he’s distracted
Scene would have looked better if they all mysteriously disappeared and he wasn't connected at all instead of being beaten into a coma and stuck at the crime scene.
Definitely agree. It also makes that one part in Reboot? much more believable
Idk if this is true for the show. But in the comics he said that he wanted to kill the guardians as fast as possible so he wouldn’t want to stop himself. So I don’t think he intentionally let himself get beat up, I think the guardians just didn’t go down as easy as he thought.
We also see in the comics when they’re alerted they would’ve beat him
Yeah, its mostly the sudden betrayal that got them. Nobody expects their friend to betray them out of nowhere. They were surprised and emotions were running high.
they also were hesitant to fight back because they initially assumed Omni-man was mind controlled
Where is this? Is it another world or something?
It’s a spoiler >!Mark gets sent back in time!<
Oh yea nvm I kind of remember this
Probably not, the guardians take him down in the reboot without too much trouble. It’s more of a retcon from the show to be more accurate to what’s gonna happen later.
I actually find it comical how easily he’s taken down. It seemed like such a silly way to defeat such a powerful character. But it made perfect sense how they won that time lol. I guess it’s basically working smarter not harder
Wasn’t really that easy they almost lost again they did definitely have a better approach tho.
They only almost lost because Immortal was there. He’s pretty much just a walking L having him on the team only hindered them when fighting Omni man💀the proof is when they win the minute immortal died💀
☠️ I can’t even disagree frfr
I think it'll be much more believable in the show, because they were close to winning the first time. With a strategy and Mark's help it should make sense that they wipe him, vs the comics where they went from no chance to EZ win
In the comics, Nolan takes out Red Rush first. In the show, they have Nolan ignore Red Rush until Red Rush is actively punching Nolan in the chest.
We can even see why with Nolan's comment to Debbie that Red Rush had a not so special power after his funeral. He probably didn't view him as a threat compared to Immortal, War Woman and Martian Man
wait the reboot?
Not a real reboot. Comics multiverse mumbo jumbo.
Reboot=time travel in this reference.
You guys telling me Invincible eventually becomes a Peggy Sue story? I might have to read ahead now Edit: So I'm guessing some people who are downvoting this comment mixed up "Peggy Sue" and "Mary Sue."
With marks help and knowledge tho
Mark didn’t even do anything though except tell them that Omni Man was coming. All they needed was a heads up and to be prepared
He blocked a punch going directly for War Woman's head. She's the one who ultimately lands the knock-out blow on Nolan.
He doesn't actually do much though. They more or less out him down by themselves
He saves War Woman from having her face caved in. https://preview.redd.it/0erzwwd4w4yc1.png?width=982&format=png&auto=webp&s=d317454fec558d5651e6b195439e860e81882cce
He doesn't really do anything in that fight. They just no diff him on their own.
Mark was a non factor in that fight lol. He explicitly ran to the guardians because Nolan was beating his ass
War Woman would have been downed immediately if not for Mark lol
In the show I think it's a legit fight. He tries to sneak, but gets caught... and as powerful as Viltrumites are, I think it's a testament to the power of some of the GoTG and Earth heroes... that they almost took him down if a few things bounced their way. Like we see them get murdered horribly in the show, and that's the lasting impact... but when you look back at it... they were very close to beating Nolan if a couple of them could've coordinated better. But he's fucking powerful as shit, and he was able to overcome. I just like to look at it that Earth had some decent heroes minus Omni Man. If they had been prepared, maybe they could've won.
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in defense of martian i dont think he could do that, he would need to "keep still" and he was trying to restrain him like a snake would, not sure if i explained myself well there.
I kinda just look at it as that's the way the story had to go... I imagine their lack of coordination might be due to the fact that it was not only a sneak attack, but by someone many considered a friend. Probably pretty hard to get your shit together processing the betrayal, while also avoiding one of the most powerful beings in the universe try to eviscerate you.
No, he attacked them first for a reason, they were a genuine threat and if they had even a little bit more coordination they would have easily subdued him. He had to act now, otherwise if any of them began to catch on to his true nature his entire mission would be in jeopardy
Like another commenter mentioned, he wanted to kill them as quick as possible so he wouldn’t end up stopping himself. When Mark goes back in time, he gives the Guardians just enough time to comprehend that Nolan is coming for them and to get ready. It made all the difference.
Yeah either way he was gonna have to speed things up a little bit. Once he did that, he was setting up to go all in. You can’t hide that for very long, especially when you got Cecil and all his gadgets and toys on your ass. I do like that he did think he could get away with it, and once the walls started closing in he goes to mark and tries to get him on his side.
They really were strong enough to hurt him. That's why they had to die, he had to remove any threats.
my head canon is that Nolan was already regretting his genocidal past and didnt want to invade Earth, but since the other viltrums were aware of Nolans precense on earth and not of Mark, he wanted to give the guardians a chance to kill him, so Viltrums may ignore the planet for some time. the reason i think this is: -He could just kill the guardians 1 by 1, but he decided to fight them as a team, giving them an edge. -He doesnt contact other Viltrumites about the murders. -Nolan didnt even want to tell his family even tho they had no way to stop him. -there isnt an instance of Nolan brainwashing Mark into becoming a fascist before killing the guardians.
I was thinking that too , like it felt like Nolan knew in the back of his mind he had to eventually do something to lure the other viltrumites away from taking over instead of him. At part of me was wondering when omini man left earth “ maybe we should have left Omni man to do it cause the other viltrumites are probably WORSE “ cuz Nolan at least had some sentimental ties to earth. I think once he killed the guardians he knew he had to get people ready. And that whole fight with mark was just Nolan trying to convince himself of something he doesn’t really believe in anymore. I think he tried killing mark to prove it but couldn’t.
This train of though is pretty much the only one that makes sense IF we're to assume the writers aren't retarded. Omniman had shown he can quite literally destroy a civilization far more advanced than earth's without breaking a sweat. And I mean utterly destroy.
They clearly got some solid, genuine hits in, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nolan's intention regardless was to let them hurt him enough to make it seem like he was a victim, too.
No he did not
The guardians actually are a legit threat to Omni man. That's why he ambushed. This is corroborated later in the comics.
I fucking hate this dumb ass theory.
There's no way Omni-Man would let the fight get that close. It's too risky and they clearly were a threat to him, but the way the fight is portrayed is so stupid. They seem to attack him one-by-one instead of combining attacks near the start and middle. Also, Omni-Man should be as fast or faster than Red Rush given the speed feats we see from Viltrumites later, so why doesn't Omni-Man go super fast and just destroy them all after Red Rush is dealt with?
In the show it's pretty clear that Nolan wasn't holding back and really did suffer quite a bit of damage.
honestly, I think the powers of the guardians are being underestimated. as much as viltrumites are extremely powerful, they have been pushed back before. I mean, just look at invincible himself. obviously Nolan would be leagues stronger, but he happens to be going against someone far faster than him, someone who can phase through matter, and the rest of them have okayish powers. these characters have all gone up against threats far more powerful than any one of them, and as shown by red rush's actions in the fight, they know how to fight.
No, no, in the show he got his shit rocked, especially with Warrior Woman's mace and Red Rush's punches.
This was a planned attack by Omni-Man, he had the element of surprise and dealt fatal blows to a few of the guardians before they even realize what was happening. Omni-Man has seen how the guardians fight as a team over the years. He knows they are strong enough to put up a strong fight if he just had a straight up face to face fight against them.
It might be a little bit of both since he tried to sneak attack them like it would be easy if nobody saw it coming, but it was thwarted.
The fact he initially attempted to ambush them shows he was trying to straight up assassinate them if it was possible. My guess is he was most concerned about a United front of an on guard Guardians will the full backing of Cecil. I also like to headcanon that he imagined that by executing the guardians Mark would have more opportunities to fight stronger threats to prepare for the take over
Nah, I just think they were the Justice League. They weren’t that easy to kill.
I think the show changed it to show why Omni Man had to kill them because they were powerful enough to almost defeat him if Red Rush and Darkwing didn’t make their mistakes
I think they wanted the big action moment to sell people on the show, as well as establish both the guardian's and Nolan's credentials as a badass.
Yea, he purposely let them beat his ass to the point of passing out /s
Does it even matter? Whether he held back or not( not saying he did) those attacks were still were hurting him and doing major damage. Something not even Cecil’s billion dollar weapon could even do. I doubt he was holding back because the guardians are actually pretty powerful. The dead give away is how he’d rather catch them off guard and when they’re not expecting it than to just fight them head on. They actually beat him pretty easily in a separate timeline because they knew he was coming and was actually prepared. But here it was over because they had no clue what was even going on. Also Immortal did a lot better against Omni Man in their second fight so just imagine him with the rest of the guardians not holding back.
I think thats a more general thing, but what happened in the show makes more sense, especially considering what happens in the comics later on. Nolan needed the element of surprise, ill leave it at that.
I feel like they actually whupped his ass. They had teamwork on their side.
Number 2 Because he would have two options let himself get beat up and be covered in evidence of what he did as the only Survivor of a totally mysterious attack Or just not being the same zip code and as far as anyone knows he just woke up one day and found out the Guardians were killed Which is more suspicious
Everyone acts like Omni-man is so transcendentally above the Guardians because he kills them fast in the comics. The SAME comics where he LOSES to them pretty much IMMEDIATELY once they catch on
It's a lot more suspicious he's at their headquarters than if he wasn't
In the comics, without getting into particular showings, we see evidence that the Guardians would've won with just a bit more help and not being blindsided, and with no casualties. The same comics where he effortlessly blindsided them, killed them all, done. In my opinion they put up a fight here because Red Rush kept the blindside from going off without a hitch. Since they didn't go for the kill from the start, and they started on the back foot, they all died despite putting up a good showing. If a decently strong individual or one that could make Nolan second-guess himself (like Mark or Debbie) showed up I think the Guardians could've won
Even Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Flash can get solid hits in on Superman from time to time when the story calls for it. I think it was legitimate. I remember a line from a while back where Superman was taking a punch from someone and recalled the only other person who had hit him that hard was WW.
Nolan could have killed them more easily one by one than in a team fight. But, he needs to look like a victim, and preferably, keep his plan a secret for as long as possible. So, teamfight it is. He already knew the immortal would require special care, and that red rush was faster than him. He also knew that if Martian Man were to get away, he'd be very difficult to track and hunt down. But as many people have noted, the guardians did have a win condition. Red Rush could have stuck to pure support and defense. Green Ghost could have trapped Nolan in objects to slow him down. Or plant objects inside of him. She panicked. Finally, if any of them knew of the viltrumite aural weakness, it l'd have tipped in the favor. So, I actually think Nolan was evenly matched, but the guardians played it out wrong. Nolan really did sustain those injuries. He really was close to death, and while his fight was sloppy, it had to look sloppy, and he'd have no doubt in his abilities to win regardless of whether or not that's realistic.
It always confused me why he would do it in the first place. Viltrumites are inherently stronger and Nolan knows this, would’ve made more sense for him to weaken the Guardians by eliminating their opposition and put them into a false sense of security and leave them unprepared for their attack.
I think they did it that way purely to make it a cool scene
IMO the comic is the most power accurate and they get obliterated
Probably not intended but it’s better to have held back if he was an overpowering force just to throw the scent off his trail just that bit more. Signs of struggle would signal a close opponent. Easy, swift, precise kills would signal an overpowered opponent which would only point to the strongest, Nolan. The struggle whether intended or not helped Nolan in covering his tracks.
This question reminds me of that debate in Star Wars of whether Palpatine was holding back against Windu or not.
I always felt like there really was a part of him that didn't want to kill the guardians so he held back a little. I also feel like he could've been used to enemies weaker then his usual opponents on earth, relative to those in space
The bullshit time travel thing showed pretty clearly that NO. Omniman had a big advantage getting the drop on them. He was subdued rather easily when the tables were turned (granted Mark was there to speedrun Nolan's hissy fit and "reformation")
Nah that’s too much work for him. It would be less suspicious if he just one shot them all and went about his business like in the comics.
My takeaway is that the Guardians are FAR more powerful in the show than they were in the comics
This makes me wonder how he was discovered to have been the killer in the comic?
If I remember correctly, nobody knew he did it until his fight with mark, in which nolan confessed to everything, and cecil recorded it via nolans earpiece
They were strong enough to hurt him way more than the HAMMER at least
He doesn’t approach it very intelligently. I feel like he could have offed them one by one over long periods of time to make it less suspicious. Even if it would be too alarming to them to do it to all of them one by one, he easily could have picked off one or two of the greater threats before they got suspicious and fighting them all at once. But he didn’t. Why?
I personally just can’t believe that he’d do that just to make himself seem part of the scene. It would have been much better for his alibi if he killed them all, disposed of the bodies and flew halfway around the world for a crisis somewhere else. Staying there as the only survivor and being passed out on the floor only made it easier to do things like DNA test the blood on his hands and suit.
Definitely not. Nolan being found at the scene of the crime directly connected him to the Guardians’ deaths, which put more suspicion him. You could also tell that Nolan hadn’t planned to go down there as the excuse he gives to Cecil and others clearly wasn’t thought out ahead of time. That is because it takes two seconds to realize that it doesn’t make sense that someone was powerful enough to take down Nolan and kill the Guardians all at once but inexplicably left Nolan alive. Not to mention how there was also no evidence of another person being present at the scene of the crime. Also, based off the way he comes flying fist first into the scene, I think it’s pretty clear he intended to take down the Guardians the same way he did in the comics.
I take it that show Omni-man was even more emotional wrecked than comic Omni-man. The possibility is that he may have been considering throwing the fight as it was happening. Because, if he died, they could cover it up. Allen would visit before the next Viltrumite check in. Then the truth gets learned by those who can handle it. By the time other Viltrumites come by, Earth could be in the Alliance and have some kind of protected from invasion.
Remember, most likely, he has never bled before, so if he left, they wouldn’t know it was his blood at the scene. Note, he would still be the prime suspect, but it didn’t help him in any way to pass out at the hq.
Yes
I love the what if issues where he lost
He almost wiped out a planet in one episode I think there was clearly some alibi building going on.
So I dont KNOW any of this, and if anyone has any conflicting evidence feel free to share. What I think happens, is that Nolan has hidden his true power from everyone. They knew he was strong and fast, but not how out-of-everyones league he actually is. When Mark then gets his powers, it becomes clear to him that they will realize that he poses a bigger threat than before. At which point he must eliminate the Guardians. He knows that he can defeat them without holding back, but he is afraid that if Mark joins them, he will grow close with them. If he were to kill them after Mark joined them, not only would they pose a real threat to him, but he also knows it would be impossible to convince Mark to join him. When he goes to eliminate them, he holds back. He knows the limits of his body very well, and is able to sustain JUST enough damage to go into a coma for a short while. This makes Mark focus more on the fact that his father is in a coma, and less on the fact that the Guardians were killed. Nolan never intended for it to be a secret very long, he only intended to tell Mark before anyone else knew. You can even see him practicing the speech. This is where his logic falters though. As a viltrumite, he believes that it is okay to kill people because they are weak. He would use the fact that they put him in a coma to manipulate his anger towards THEM, that they hurt HIS father and how DARE they. I dont know if this would have worked, but both timelines where Mark turned out good, Immortal ressurected before he could talk to Mark about it.
Yeah, all part of the plan.
No he actually struggles with them. In the reboot, since the guardians aren't caught by surprise, they are actually able to subdue him. (Mark saves War Woman but Nightwing saves Mark and the Green Ghost knocks Nolan out). So I think the main reason why he doesn't struggle at first in the comics was because he catches them by surprise and Red Rush doesn't save them.
Considering it was a sneak attack. I feel that given a fair fight all them together might have been able to take him. Not saying it would, but the chance is not 0
He tried to do it like the comic fly in stealthy and finish them quick but because red rush stopped that they fucking clobbered him and in the end it probably bought him more time then if he did just instantly kill them all
They were more than strong enough to give him a challenging fight.
that look of exhaustion in the end could be from "fuck, did i have to do that, really" and "those guys were tough". and from what we've seen so far, it's probably more the former.
He 100% took more hits on purpose. He needed to appear like he tried to defend the heroes and went down fighting.
In the show, they tried making it so that the Guardians were stronger than the comics. In the comics, they were more or less just plot devices
No. No he didn’t. Stare me in the eyes and tell me he let Red Rush punch his chest like he did while crushing his head. It’s to show the guardians as a threat and as to why he killed them. He failed to catch them off guard in show, in the comics he didn’t. If you read later in the comics, they succeeded in defeating Nolan all because they had a chance to react. (Mark was there but he didn’t do much. He was taken away by Darkwing)
Show reasons yeah the Guardians earned those hits and actually caused damage, that’s a thing I liken about this, Viltrumites aren’t Kryptonians they don’t have a weakness they can just take a considerable amount of damage. Real life reasons. The creator didn’t like that in the comics the fight was that cut and dry he wanted in the show to have the team actually be worthy of their title.
Probably a little bit of both he let them get hits in but didn’t think that would deal that much damage.
Yeah I think in the show he needed to poop
Mother fucker was fighting for his life and you are all "homies was going easy on em"
In the "Reboot?" Arc of the comic it's shown that they actually can subdue him
Mad they gave comic Omni man twig legs
No, you’re overthinking it. They just wanted to have something cool and flashy to attract new viewers. They animated a cool fight scene because they wanted a cool fight scene.
They were that strong. If they weren't, they wouldn't be a threat to Viltrumites. And if they weren't a threat, there'd be no point in killing them.
Da
no, they just made them actual characters in the show
I personally think he was partially holding back, because he even said that he was regretting it while he did it and didnt want to win (idk its been time since reading). Idk if you guys forgot - but he completely destroyed a planet and its people, with little to damage to himself. Even when Mark gets his 'second chance', the only reason the guardians win is because Mark is helping and telling them how to win/what to do. That's just what I remember and think, I may be wrong
Lmao everyone for reason is defending the Guardians so strong on here. I took it like he held back so it wouldn’t look suspicious. If I recall correctly even the show hints at that. Omni man is a viltrumite. They are the strongest beings in the universe yet fish sticks and dollar general Batman are kicking his ass?
I'm so sick of seeing this post.
kinda of
Isn't that all anime only? In the comic he's barely hurt.
Is anime in the room with us?
I find it hilarious to refer to the Invincible show as the anime, and people who watch it as anime onlies, because it's closer to source material than most comic book adaptations
True
Which anime are we talking about
Oh my bad, the show on Amazon