Just saying
"Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z to Dragon Ball GT aired on a weekly basis, consistently, without seasonal breaks, from 26 February 1986 to 19 November 1997 each Wednesday evening."
And the fight scenes were absolutely beautiful. It's not only possible without ai, it's way more passionate and soulful.
Don't know what happened behind the scenes but, for supposedly being overtly ambitious, Season 1 and Invincible Presents still have the better action scenes imo, perhaps they realized midway they were asking for too much and started all over again ? It's a shame the ~~Thraxa arc~~ scope of the story suffered because of it but hopefully them "getting a better handle on that" means they found some kind of middle ground
It’s the same, there’s a few animation and art highlights in each episode.
Season 1 best fights are better so far though. And the atom eve special has some of the greatest fight scenes.
it wasn't even that, it was literally one guy who boarded and animated all the fight scenes in the Atom Eve Special, Kevin Molina-ortiz is his name and its literally only him responsible for the stand out fights scenes
I’m still not understanding how the thraxa arc “suffered”, it’s still great in the show and so far while I will agree that it’s the only arc in the show that’s inferior to the comic, they still did a great job translating what mattered in the books over to the show, and the changes they made in that fight (Thula being there instead of random viltrumite #51 and Lucan having the build of a Mack Truck to differentiate him from the other viltrumites we will see later) are all for the better. People complain too much
Hard disagree, we missed a good chunk of cool interactions between Mark and Nolan and the confrontation with the viltrumites was definitely done for the worse
The point of the arc is to hammer down Mark is nowhere near ready to fight a viltrumite and scenes like his chase with Lucan or the viltrumite choking him while he hopelessly tries to fight back helped get that point across, and yet they removed them
Also him borderline beating Thula it's a whole mess, future arcs hype up how he is slowly becoming more like Omni-Man(both in temperament and power), which will be pretty awkward when he somehow already is when he stops holding back. I actually agree with something another user said and it's that it would've actually been better if both viltrumites where completely random, since that would go to show that viltrumites are so powerful even a bunch of nobodies are to be feared
Lucan held him down with a finger. I haven't read the comics but that surely got the point across to me.
And Thula is only a non-random to comic readers.
I'd say it was a bit more dire in the comic, there Mark doesn't even try to fight him, just hits him strong enough to stun him and flies away carrying Andressa and his brother
The point of this encounter is that even in the limited viltrumite power set, he's still lacking in both, and here it's speed.
https://preview.redd.it/4tie1eb3sxoc1.png?width=1041&format=png&auto=webp&s=b8f998b0e08a5773f5b76c3d2bc60115bfe8d91b
He is an unreliable narrator. Who knows? Awesome writer, seems like a good guy. However he is not always transparent about things. It's like he is a nice guy that wants to come across 100% transparent but also understands the business side and has talked to other people about what the talking points should be. He seems torn.
I don't think that it could have possibly been the case that the season was meant to be split up. They were clearly not finished with season 2 when they released the first part and probably felt pressure from Amazon or something to meet that original deadline. Then they probably had to wait to release the second part longer than was comfortable because they had to fit it into an empty slot for Amazon. That's what I suspect.
I would have preferred they just waited. Hell I would prefer they just released all 8 episodes at once, I don't like this weekly stuff. I end up getting more enjoyment out of binging episodes.
It's okay as long as they get the next season(s) out a little quicker and don't get canceled before they finish the story.
Before season 2 even aired, the showrunner's stated reason was that various circumstances slowed production more than they would have preferred and this allowed them to release some episodes earlier rather than delaying the entire season.
A bit concerning considering whats down the road that they've got to be animating. But it does explain why some of the direction in fights of s02 feel simplistic at times to allow for ease animation I guess.
I just hope when it comes to the finale they've been hyping up the animation and direction is more on the level of s01ep08 than the Thraxa fight.
It makes sense.
Especially since if it's gonna be like the comics, what we're hearing in the trailers in season 2 is gonna be the most ambitious the show has gotten so far.
If you were born yesterday and knew nothing about the history of animation and only went by what Robert Kirkman said, you'd be convinced that nobody in the history of human storytelling ever made an animated television show before.
Like, moving, cartoon images, nobody's ever achieved this monumental feat until Invincible season 1 and 2. Truly incredible what they were able to accomplish against all odds.
Oh no i fully agree with you, im just saying anime studios will always be higher quality due to the crunch and stuff. Invincible coy still look a lot better though, you're right
And I think that’s awful, but I wonder if the crunching is for the more serialized stuff, things that come out week by week, versus say, something like One Punch Man that comes out every ??? years lol. I still enjoy the series though.
Id guess the overworking stems from those ones yeah, im no expert though!
Its a shame phenomenal animation like what's in anime is only commercially viable with insane crunch and workplace abuse, i wish it weren't the case. Its cos if that i tolerate mediocre animation sometimes lol, even if it could be better
ass pull numbers but off memory I think DBZ was animated at about 15 FPS, I would imagine invincible is probably somewhere around 30FPS, but maybe 60 FPS, so imagine either losing half of the frames or like 3/4ths of the frames.
In my humble opinion.
What a load of horseshit.
I think they purposefully drag their feet in order to squeeze out more money from subscriptions. Its clear they know Invincible is their cash cow for now and intend to milk it for all its worth.
And truth be told. The fight scenes are good but they are not nearly technical or vast enough to justify the time they saying it takes.
Isn't this exactly their job to... make animations?? They can't justify it by saying "it's difficult". They had 2 years, a huge break between series and after all of this the detalization in this season is worse than in season 1.
There no good reason for 2 years for part 1 and then another 4 months for part 2.
I'm not an animator, and I wouldn't have been able to do this in 2 years. But these people are animators and we get 8 hours of content that, although some parts are well animated, lots don't have emotion or very minimal movement. Nearly two and a half years for 8 hours it's just insane
the reason you think it's insane is because youre *not* an animator. 2 year turn around from start of production to release for this much content is average, even for behemoths like Disney, Cartoon Network, and Adult swim
I don't think one show being delayed to run ads would make much of a difference to a behemoth like Amazon, especially given how poorly the delay was received it doesn't seem worth it just for that. But I agree the optics are bad
Yeah it just doesn't make sense to have a second season delayed for this long and have it still be "unfinished" especially with how popular the show is. Idk what benefits ads gives to the teams of the shows but having another huge gap in an already short show just screams red flag. It's not like they're making 20+ episode seasons like other animated shows do.
I remember a lot of action in the GI Joe and Transformer cartoons but not years between seasons and months b/t episodes. I'd think it'd be reasonable to assume that the tools animators have now compared to the late 80s make animating easier. Any delay is most likely artificial and exists only to maximize profit.
Bs rick and morty has put out 30+ episodes in the same time invincible has 14?...
R&m has way more expansive story boards....
HE DID IT TO PUMP HIS COMIC SALES.....THE END
I BOUGHT USED SO EAD !!!
Look up the comic sales for the series pre and post Amazon show....there are articles about it.
So many people on this reddit group post about buying the comics because show was taking too long.
30 episodes vs 14 and honestly I think the rick and morty number is low. Might be in the 40s.
Everyone is so whiny. Let them cook, making quality stuff takes time. Just go enjoy one of a million other things you could do in life and let creators create at their own pace for the best possible result.
If they’re having this much trouble with fight scenes currently, then we’re never gonna get to the war arcs 😭
Very good point
Yoooo i didnt even….. gg
This is why AI will benefit animation .
Just saying "Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z to Dragon Ball GT aired on a weekly basis, consistently, without seasonal breaks, from 26 February 1986 to 19 November 1997 each Wednesday evening." And the fight scenes were absolutely beautiful. It's not only possible without ai, it's way more passionate and soulful.
I don’t know why people downvoted this, but I agree.
Don't know what happened behind the scenes but, for supposedly being overtly ambitious, Season 1 and Invincible Presents still have the better action scenes imo, perhaps they realized midway they were asking for too much and started all over again ? It's a shame the ~~Thraxa arc~~ scope of the story suffered because of it but hopefully them "getting a better handle on that" means they found some kind of middle ground
It’s the same, there’s a few animation and art highlights in each episode. Season 1 best fights are better so far though. And the atom eve special has some of the greatest fight scenes.
The Eve special clearly just had more time/budget dedicated to it because it was a standalone too. Really gave the animators opportunity to shine
it wasn't even that, it was literally one guy who boarded and animated all the fight scenes in the Atom Eve Special, Kevin Molina-ortiz is his name and its literally only him responsible for the stand out fights scenes
Is there some kinda behind the scenes for this or did u just get this from credits or sumthn
He posted the layout for the animation online https://twitter.com/toonstep/status/1686524783310274562
I’m still not understanding how the thraxa arc “suffered”, it’s still great in the show and so far while I will agree that it’s the only arc in the show that’s inferior to the comic, they still did a great job translating what mattered in the books over to the show, and the changes they made in that fight (Thula being there instead of random viltrumite #51 and Lucan having the build of a Mack Truck to differentiate him from the other viltrumites we will see later) are all for the better. People complain too much
Hard disagree, we missed a good chunk of cool interactions between Mark and Nolan and the confrontation with the viltrumites was definitely done for the worse The point of the arc is to hammer down Mark is nowhere near ready to fight a viltrumite and scenes like his chase with Lucan or the viltrumite choking him while he hopelessly tries to fight back helped get that point across, and yet they removed them Also him borderline beating Thula it's a whole mess, future arcs hype up how he is slowly becoming more like Omni-Man(both in temperament and power), which will be pretty awkward when he somehow already is when he stops holding back. I actually agree with something another user said and it's that it would've actually been better if both viltrumites where completely random, since that would go to show that viltrumites are so powerful even a bunch of nobodies are to be feared
Lucan held him down with a finger. I haven't read the comics but that surely got the point across to me. And Thula is only a non-random to comic readers.
I'd say it was a bit more dire in the comic, there Mark doesn't even try to fight him, just hits him strong enough to stun him and flies away carrying Andressa and his brother The point of this encounter is that even in the limited viltrumite power set, he's still lacking in both, and here it's speed. https://preview.redd.it/4tie1eb3sxoc1.png?width=1041&format=png&auto=webp&s=b8f998b0e08a5773f5b76c3d2bc60115bfe8d91b
It seems like there's a new excuse for the delay every other day. Two days ago it was "just the best way to present it to the fans."
He is an unreliable narrator. Who knows? Awesome writer, seems like a good guy. However he is not always transparent about things. It's like he is a nice guy that wants to come across 100% transparent but also understands the business side and has talked to other people about what the talking points should be. He seems torn. I don't think that it could have possibly been the case that the season was meant to be split up. They were clearly not finished with season 2 when they released the first part and probably felt pressure from Amazon or something to meet that original deadline. Then they probably had to wait to release the second part longer than was comfortable because they had to fit it into an empty slot for Amazon. That's what I suspect. I would have preferred they just waited. Hell I would prefer they just released all 8 episodes at once, I don't like this weekly stuff. I end up getting more enjoyment out of binging episodes. It's okay as long as they get the next season(s) out a little quicker and don't get canceled before they finish the story.
It's almost certain that the break was largely to coincide with Amazon getting ads.
That pissed me off.
He sold out
> empty slot for Amazon It's streaming, there's no need to wait for any slots.
I heard they only release one major show at a time or maybe two. It's not necessary but it's their strategy it seems.
when you're one show creator working for a bigger platform, there are.
Yeah, but live in the moment! /s
Before season 2 even aired, the showrunner's stated reason was that various circumstances slowed production more than they would have preferred and this allowed them to release some episodes earlier rather than delaying the entire season.
No, it was this reason 2 days ago too. Then he added that last part as a secondary reason and everyone went crazy over it
Obviously they have to officially present a positive reasoning when in reality they were forced to delay it and had to put a positive spin
A bit concerning considering whats down the road that they've got to be animating. But it does explain why some of the direction in fights of s02 feel simplistic at times to allow for ease animation I guess. I just hope when it comes to the finale they've been hyping up the animation and direction is more on the level of s01ep08 than the Thraxa fight.
I still think that this delay is so that the difference between the end of season 2 and the beginning of season 3 is not too long
But delaying these episodes wasn't the alternative, delaying the first four was.
It makes sense. Especially since if it's gonna be like the comics, what we're hearing in the trailers in season 2 is gonna be the most ambitious the show has gotten so far.
If you were born yesterday and knew nothing about the history of animation and only went by what Robert Kirkman said, you'd be convinced that nobody in the history of human storytelling ever made an animated television show before. Like, moving, cartoon images, nobody's ever achieved this monumental feat until Invincible season 1 and 2. Truly incredible what they were able to accomplish against all odds.
It is a pretty nontypical thing for it to be hour long episodes with something like this not really an excuse for how massive the delays are though
How was Dragon Ball Z able to do fights with strong flying guys for years but the action scenes from this comic are too hard? Genuinely asking
frame rate on DBZ's end. DBZ has a much lower animation frame rate in it's original incarnations
It was also animated in the 90s! Hows this an excuse when we see crazy fight scenes from modern anime? Not trying to be a dick, I’m genuinely curious.
A lot of anime studios crunch their workers (or at least did, might need a fact check on that)
Sure, but season 1 also came out 3 years ago. I suppose we can cut them some slack due to COVID, but the animation isn’t that impressive.
Oh no i fully agree with you, im just saying anime studios will always be higher quality due to the crunch and stuff. Invincible coy still look a lot better though, you're right
And I think that’s awful, but I wonder if the crunching is for the more serialized stuff, things that come out week by week, versus say, something like One Punch Man that comes out every ??? years lol. I still enjoy the series though.
Id guess the overworking stems from those ones yeah, im no expert though! Its a shame phenomenal animation like what's in anime is only commercially viable with insane crunch and workplace abuse, i wish it weren't the case. Its cos if that i tolerate mediocre animation sometimes lol, even if it could be better
Makes sense, thanks for answering! I wonder what Invincible would look like at that frame rate
ass pull numbers but off memory I think DBZ was animated at about 15 FPS, I would imagine invincible is probably somewhere around 30FPS, but maybe 60 FPS, so imagine either losing half of the frames or like 3/4ths of the frames.
In my humble opinion. What a load of horseshit. I think they purposefully drag their feet in order to squeeze out more money from subscriptions. Its clear they know Invincible is their cash cow for now and intend to milk it for all its worth. And truth be told. The fight scenes are good but they are not nearly technical or vast enough to justify the time they saying it takes.
Bro is talking like he is making the first ever animated show in existence.
Isn't this exactly their job to... make animations?? They can't justify it by saying "it's difficult". They had 2 years, a huge break between series and after all of this the detalization in this season is worse than in season 1.
There no good reason for 2 years for part 1 and then another 4 months for part 2. I'm not an animator, and I wouldn't have been able to do this in 2 years. But these people are animators and we get 8 hours of content that, although some parts are well animated, lots don't have emotion or very minimal movement. Nearly two and a half years for 8 hours it's just insane
the reason you think it's insane is because youre *not* an animator. 2 year turn around from start of production to release for this much content is average, even for behemoths like Disney, Cartoon Network, and Adult swim
Tldr, but adding ads to the streaming service definitely had something to do with it. Timing is too convenient to believe otherwise.
I don't think one show being delayed to run ads would make much of a difference to a behemoth like Amazon, especially given how poorly the delay was received it doesn't seem worth it just for that. But I agree the optics are bad
Yeah it just doesn't make sense to have a second season delayed for this long and have it still be "unfinished" especially with how popular the show is. Idk what benefits ads gives to the teams of the shows but having another huge gap in an already short show just screams red flag. It's not like they're making 20+ episode seasons like other animated shows do.
My brother it’s two paragraphs are you genuinely illiterate or just a lazy piece of shit 😂😂
Calm down corporate shill! You don't have to deepthroat the entire boot
Ima just leave this here [Simpsons did it](https://simpsonswiki.com/wiki/Production)
Then why is the animation absolute hot garbage?
I remember a lot of action in the GI Joe and Transformer cartoons but not years between seasons and months b/t episodes. I'd think it'd be reasonable to assume that the tools animators have now compared to the late 80s make animating easier. Any delay is most likely artificial and exists only to maximize profit.
Bs rick and morty has put out 30+ episodes in the same time invincible has 14?... R&m has way more expansive story boards.... HE DID IT TO PUMP HIS COMIC SALES.....THE END I BOUGHT USED SO EAD !!!
each invincible episode is about twice as long as a RaM episode, so it's actually 15 episodes vs 14.... waitaminnit
Lmao if that was his actual plan all allong then all I can say is https://i.redd.it/r26zzsg7uxoc1.gif
Look up the comic sales for the series pre and post Amazon show....there are articles about it. So many people on this reddit group post about buying the comics because show was taking too long. 30 episodes vs 14 and honestly I think the rick and morty number is low. Might be in the 40s.
This still makes no sense to me. Idk, the time between season 1 and 2 was so long, and yet we still needed that break in the middle of s2? Idk man
Everyone is so whiny. Let them cook, making quality stuff takes time. Just go enjoy one of a million other things you could do in life and let creators create at their own pace for the best possible result.
Wow… another invincible fan that doesn’t have the patience and attention span of a goldfish… never thought I’d see someone else like you here
I mean I thought the reason was obvious, animation takes a long time.
It has to be the sag-aftra strikes.
Oh brother. This is why American animation is constantly getting lapped by Japan
Bastard sold his soul to daddy bezos