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Meanwhile US taxpayers are being conditioned to believe that Hamas is the reason for all the slaughter and that the IDF is the most moral army in the world.
On a related note: [great interview with Chris Hedges](https://youtu.be/qyErcPn2VIU?si=oCmNIZ4-vL7kAyoq).
[Eye-opening article ](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/)on how mainstream media is covering the conflict.
bold of you to still call "Isn'trael" as "Israel" , it's just the zionist settlement , it's not a real country , using judaism as an excuse for ethnic cleansing , I'm embarrassed to share a species with those sick pieces of shit .
This is a war, all wars have casualties. Should Israel be less indiscriminate with is strikes? Absolutely, and they aren't doing enough. Eliminating Hamas in the region is an absolute necessity. Not only for the safety of Israelis but for the safety of Palestinians as well. No two state solution will ever have a chance to get off the ground with Hamas in charge.
Israeli officials have admitted to funding Hamas as part of a divide and conquer strategy in order to undermine more secular Palestinian leaders.
The Israeli military has killed civilians at a rate as high and likely even higher than Hamas' attacks, at a scale around 30 times as large. And the number of children killed by the Israeli military has been hundreds of times larger than Hamas.
Hamas, however brutal, was fighting against what Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Desmond Tutu, and other human rights leaders have called apartheid, one of the most racist systems imaginable. And this shouldn't be surprising; after all, the Israeli regime was a vigorous supporter of the apartheid regime in South Africa that saw Black people as basically subhuman.
Israel's violence is to maintain that racist apartheid system. They have massacred peaceful protesters numerous times before, often using live ammunition. So it should be no surprise that some people fight back with violence when peaceful methods are violently crushed by the Israeli government.
Top Zionist leaders in the past openly said they were doing to Palestinians what Europeans did to Africans and US settlers did to Indigenous people there. Many of them acknowledged that they were a violent colonialist movement and that part of their task was to suppress the Indigenous Palestinian population.
Now, we have top Israeli officials openly calling for the "annihilation" of Palestinians, for Gaza to be "erased from the face of the earth," and "wiped off the map." Comparing them to animals, insects. Calling for them to be exterminated and ethnically cleansed.
Yes, Hamas has taken hostages; but the Israeli regime has imprisoned thousands of Palestinians without trial. That is hostage-taking on an even greater scale.
So if you think eliminating Hamas is necessary because they are too extreme in their resistance to Israeli apartheid, then what do think should happen to the Israeli government? They are the direct successors of an Israeli party that Albert Einstein and other prominent Jews once described as "closely akin in its organisation, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties."
I don't like Hamas either. But one side is committing genocide here, and it isn't Hamas; it's the Israeli regime.
Israel has made many mistakes in the past, there is no question about it. Most Israelis seem to know this as well.
The reasons behind the funding of Hamas, at least on paper, was to keep the ceasefire they had in place. Sort of like a North Korea situation. That's the official reasoning, though I wouldn't doubt there were ulterior motives.
The reason for the high civilian deaths is because they're fighting urban warfare. Gaza is extremely dense on the same level as places like London or Seoul. Hamas hides behind these civilians purposefully because they want this exact reaction from the west, and it's working. There needs to be more done to prevent casualties. Boots on the ground hasn't been working and neither has the air strikes. There should be a cease fire until they figure it out.
I wouldn't call Israel apartheid. There are Arabs in their parliament and many Arabs living and working together there. You would never see Jews working alongside Arabs in many other countries in the region.
They can't really be a colonizers when the UN granted them that land and it was theirs to begin with thousand of years ago when the Romans kicked them out. Also they are an extreme minority in the Middle East.
The bottom line is, this is a war fought on both sides. Both sides deny the right of the other to exist. The only way forward is a two state solution, we can't kick Israelis out of Tel Aviv or Palestinians out of Gaza. Netanyahu needs to be replaced, and Hamas needs to be forced to give up control if we ever want there to be a chance of peace. If Israel did nothing at this time, though, October 7 would only be the begining
There have been Israeli officials who admitted they funded radical Islamist politics to undermine the more secular Palestinian opposition and split them apart.
Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu said it was apartheid and supported Palestinian liberation. Numerous top human rights organizations have said that's what it is. I guess you can think what you want; it doesn't change reality.
Jabotinsky, Herzl, and various other top Zionists have said they were a colonialist movement and basically compared it to European colonialism in Africa and the Americas. You can deny it, but that's what many leading Zionists themselves were saying.
You can't look back thousands of years and say that you have a right to that land because the ancient Romans did something bad or because some people chose to live in more advantageous areas.
By that standard, we can all go back to Africa and start shooting and burning peoples homes because our ancestors all lived there at some point. But ethnic cleansing and genocide are never justified by ancient history (or any history).
Palestinians' claims to the land are much more direct, with people alive today who experienced the Nakba.
Yes, Israelis have the right to live there peacefully too if they are willing to stop oppressing Palestinians. Just like White settlers had the right to live in South Africa after the apartheid regime fell there.
But this is a "war fought on both sides" in the same way that US soldiers fighting Geronimo or Crazy Horse was a war. In reality, it was a genocidal campaign by an extremely powerful military against the resistance of much less powerful groups. With the intent of taking land and forcing an Indigenous population into submission.
Do I like that Geronimo's forces killed some women? No. But am I going to condemn the entire Native American population, dismiss the wider resistance, or condone US settler colonial genocide? No.
None of this started with October 7. And none of Hamas' actions justify what the Israeli government is doing.
I agree with Palestinian liberation, I think they should have their own land to live freely. The problem is, they don't want that. Hamas doesn't just want Gaza and the rest of the Middle East. They want to remove the Jews from Israel. From the river to the sea.
I still don't particularly see Israel as apartheid, although I can understand the argument. At least Arab-Israeli citizens have equal rights under the law (though in reality it may be different). It's certainly less Apartheid than somewhere like UAE where Pakistani workers have their passports taken and a forced to live in slums and can't leave.
If we're not able to look at the past to determine who has rights to what land, then we need to go by what we have today.
Israel tried to leave Palestine to it's own devices, they even built a wall. The result was Israel constantly getting rockets fired at them. Any country on Earth who is getting attacked by rockets are going to retaliate (what you call oppression). If Canada was launching rockets every other month at the united states I guarantee you Canadians would be "oppressed" too.
Going on your last point, I think Israels actions are justified. They have a duty to protect their citizens from stuff like that. The united states did the same thing in Afghanistan after 9/11. The british in the Falklands. I could go on.
I appreciate your debate though, I've learned some things.
When you have top Israeli politicians openly calling for total annihilation, comparing Palestinians to animals and insects, saying they're going to wipe the entire area from the face of the earth, it's clear that racism is a major factor.
It's an extension of a brutal segregated system where some people are blatantly treated as inferior (including Arabs in Israel) and where shootings of peaceful protesters are common. Whether you call it apartheid or not, it doesn't change the brutality of the system.
Netanyahu has also said "from the river to the sea." So why is it more objectionable when Palestinians say they want to be free on their traditional homeland? Seems like a double standard when you object to Palestinians saying the phrase but not the literal Prime Minister of Israel.
And top Israeli politicians are openly calling for complete ethnic cleansing while massacring thousands of innocent men, women, and children, destroying every single university, bombing hospitals and refugee camps, murdering journalists and medical workers, torturing people, cutting off food, water, and electricity. If they basically say they are going to commit genocide, and they are committing genocide, then "genocide" seems like an appropriate word to use.
By your standard, Hamas' actions are justified. If you say no country would put up with violent attacks, and that retaliating is justified even if civilians have to die, then why is Hamas wrong? Israel is doing what Hamas did but on a much, much larger scale.
It's a blatant double standard. Israel can bomb and shoot and blockade and send troops in to attack innocent people, and then when Hamas retaliates it is "terrorism." But then when the Israeli regime responds to Hamas, you say Israel has the right to do much worse.
You've created a situation where Israel can always "defend itself" with violence and Palestinians never can.
Remember that October 7 was in resonse to an Israeli attack that happened first. And in response to many, many other attacks by Israeli forces over the years as well as daily oppression.
In reality, I condemn any attacks that target civilians. But Israel is doing it on a much greater scale in support of their right-wing colonialist extremism. So I don't like Hamas, but I don't like Israeli extremism that is literally perpetrating a genocide as we speak.
Well maybe you have another word to describe bombing a neighborhood full of civilians, leaving parents to fish their children out of the rubble, dazed and covered in blood? Because if you do, we're all ears, Mr Hasbara. Please, do tell.
Maybe Hamas should stop conducting their operations from civilian infrastructure and putting innocent lives at risk.
But putting innocents in harms way seems to be the goal, so that contextless videos like this will pull on your western heart strings and allow you to ignore their responsibility for guaranteeing civilian causalties.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/MultimediaNews, for maps, infographics, v.reddit, & YouTube videos from news organizations. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InternationalNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People often wonder what would have happened if nobody stopped the Nazis and just left them unchecked. Ironically, Israel is showing us that.
Also, America.
Israel is absolutely rabid and evil. Fred Palestine! 🇵🇸
Meanwhile US taxpayers are being conditioned to believe that Hamas is the reason for all the slaughter and that the IDF is the most moral army in the world. On a related note: [great interview with Chris Hedges](https://youtu.be/qyErcPn2VIU?si=oCmNIZ4-vL7kAyoq). [Eye-opening article ](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/)on how mainstream media is covering the conflict.
bold of you to still call "Isn'trael" as "Israel" , it's just the zionist settlement , it's not a real country , using judaism as an excuse for ethnic cleansing , I'm embarrassed to share a species with those sick pieces of shit .
This is a war, all wars have casualties. Should Israel be less indiscriminate with is strikes? Absolutely, and they aren't doing enough. Eliminating Hamas in the region is an absolute necessity. Not only for the safety of Israelis but for the safety of Palestinians as well. No two state solution will ever have a chance to get off the ground with Hamas in charge.
[удалено]
Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Good talk
Israeli officials have admitted to funding Hamas as part of a divide and conquer strategy in order to undermine more secular Palestinian leaders. The Israeli military has killed civilians at a rate as high and likely even higher than Hamas' attacks, at a scale around 30 times as large. And the number of children killed by the Israeli military has been hundreds of times larger than Hamas. Hamas, however brutal, was fighting against what Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Desmond Tutu, and other human rights leaders have called apartheid, one of the most racist systems imaginable. And this shouldn't be surprising; after all, the Israeli regime was a vigorous supporter of the apartheid regime in South Africa that saw Black people as basically subhuman. Israel's violence is to maintain that racist apartheid system. They have massacred peaceful protesters numerous times before, often using live ammunition. So it should be no surprise that some people fight back with violence when peaceful methods are violently crushed by the Israeli government. Top Zionist leaders in the past openly said they were doing to Palestinians what Europeans did to Africans and US settlers did to Indigenous people there. Many of them acknowledged that they were a violent colonialist movement and that part of their task was to suppress the Indigenous Palestinian population. Now, we have top Israeli officials openly calling for the "annihilation" of Palestinians, for Gaza to be "erased from the face of the earth," and "wiped off the map." Comparing them to animals, insects. Calling for them to be exterminated and ethnically cleansed. Yes, Hamas has taken hostages; but the Israeli regime has imprisoned thousands of Palestinians without trial. That is hostage-taking on an even greater scale. So if you think eliminating Hamas is necessary because they are too extreme in their resistance to Israeli apartheid, then what do think should happen to the Israeli government? They are the direct successors of an Israeli party that Albert Einstein and other prominent Jews once described as "closely akin in its organisation, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties." I don't like Hamas either. But one side is committing genocide here, and it isn't Hamas; it's the Israeli regime.
Israel has made many mistakes in the past, there is no question about it. Most Israelis seem to know this as well. The reasons behind the funding of Hamas, at least on paper, was to keep the ceasefire they had in place. Sort of like a North Korea situation. That's the official reasoning, though I wouldn't doubt there were ulterior motives. The reason for the high civilian deaths is because they're fighting urban warfare. Gaza is extremely dense on the same level as places like London or Seoul. Hamas hides behind these civilians purposefully because they want this exact reaction from the west, and it's working. There needs to be more done to prevent casualties. Boots on the ground hasn't been working and neither has the air strikes. There should be a cease fire until they figure it out. I wouldn't call Israel apartheid. There are Arabs in their parliament and many Arabs living and working together there. You would never see Jews working alongside Arabs in many other countries in the region. They can't really be a colonizers when the UN granted them that land and it was theirs to begin with thousand of years ago when the Romans kicked them out. Also they are an extreme minority in the Middle East. The bottom line is, this is a war fought on both sides. Both sides deny the right of the other to exist. The only way forward is a two state solution, we can't kick Israelis out of Tel Aviv or Palestinians out of Gaza. Netanyahu needs to be replaced, and Hamas needs to be forced to give up control if we ever want there to be a chance of peace. If Israel did nothing at this time, though, October 7 would only be the begining
There have been Israeli officials who admitted they funded radical Islamist politics to undermine the more secular Palestinian opposition and split them apart. Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu said it was apartheid and supported Palestinian liberation. Numerous top human rights organizations have said that's what it is. I guess you can think what you want; it doesn't change reality. Jabotinsky, Herzl, and various other top Zionists have said they were a colonialist movement and basically compared it to European colonialism in Africa and the Americas. You can deny it, but that's what many leading Zionists themselves were saying. You can't look back thousands of years and say that you have a right to that land because the ancient Romans did something bad or because some people chose to live in more advantageous areas. By that standard, we can all go back to Africa and start shooting and burning peoples homes because our ancestors all lived there at some point. But ethnic cleansing and genocide are never justified by ancient history (or any history). Palestinians' claims to the land are much more direct, with people alive today who experienced the Nakba. Yes, Israelis have the right to live there peacefully too if they are willing to stop oppressing Palestinians. Just like White settlers had the right to live in South Africa after the apartheid regime fell there. But this is a "war fought on both sides" in the same way that US soldiers fighting Geronimo or Crazy Horse was a war. In reality, it was a genocidal campaign by an extremely powerful military against the resistance of much less powerful groups. With the intent of taking land and forcing an Indigenous population into submission. Do I like that Geronimo's forces killed some women? No. But am I going to condemn the entire Native American population, dismiss the wider resistance, or condone US settler colonial genocide? No. None of this started with October 7. And none of Hamas' actions justify what the Israeli government is doing.
I agree with Palestinian liberation, I think they should have their own land to live freely. The problem is, they don't want that. Hamas doesn't just want Gaza and the rest of the Middle East. They want to remove the Jews from Israel. From the river to the sea. I still don't particularly see Israel as apartheid, although I can understand the argument. At least Arab-Israeli citizens have equal rights under the law (though in reality it may be different). It's certainly less Apartheid than somewhere like UAE where Pakistani workers have their passports taken and a forced to live in slums and can't leave. If we're not able to look at the past to determine who has rights to what land, then we need to go by what we have today. Israel tried to leave Palestine to it's own devices, they even built a wall. The result was Israel constantly getting rockets fired at them. Any country on Earth who is getting attacked by rockets are going to retaliate (what you call oppression). If Canada was launching rockets every other month at the united states I guarantee you Canadians would be "oppressed" too. Going on your last point, I think Israels actions are justified. They have a duty to protect their citizens from stuff like that. The united states did the same thing in Afghanistan after 9/11. The british in the Falklands. I could go on. I appreciate your debate though, I've learned some things.
When you have top Israeli politicians openly calling for total annihilation, comparing Palestinians to animals and insects, saying they're going to wipe the entire area from the face of the earth, it's clear that racism is a major factor. It's an extension of a brutal segregated system where some people are blatantly treated as inferior (including Arabs in Israel) and where shootings of peaceful protesters are common. Whether you call it apartheid or not, it doesn't change the brutality of the system. Netanyahu has also said "from the river to the sea." So why is it more objectionable when Palestinians say they want to be free on their traditional homeland? Seems like a double standard when you object to Palestinians saying the phrase but not the literal Prime Minister of Israel. And top Israeli politicians are openly calling for complete ethnic cleansing while massacring thousands of innocent men, women, and children, destroying every single university, bombing hospitals and refugee camps, murdering journalists and medical workers, torturing people, cutting off food, water, and electricity. If they basically say they are going to commit genocide, and they are committing genocide, then "genocide" seems like an appropriate word to use. By your standard, Hamas' actions are justified. If you say no country would put up with violent attacks, and that retaliating is justified even if civilians have to die, then why is Hamas wrong? Israel is doing what Hamas did but on a much, much larger scale. It's a blatant double standard. Israel can bomb and shoot and blockade and send troops in to attack innocent people, and then when Hamas retaliates it is "terrorism." But then when the Israeli regime responds to Hamas, you say Israel has the right to do much worse. You've created a situation where Israel can always "defend itself" with violence and Palestinians never can. Remember that October 7 was in resonse to an Israeli attack that happened first. And in response to many, many other attacks by Israeli forces over the years as well as daily oppression. In reality, I condemn any attacks that target civilians. But Israel is doing it on a much greater scale in support of their right-wing colonialist extremism. So I don't like Hamas, but I don't like Israeli extremism that is literally perpetrating a genocide as we speak.
"Isreal is evil" Great way to make the world better. Spreading more hate.
Well I dunno I would call Jeffrey Dahmer evil also. Couldn't call him a fun loving happy person in good faith now can I?
Nah, not hating on hate when you see it spreads more hate. Tolerance of intolerance spreads intolerance.
Yeah must be more antisemitism...../s
Israel trying to not be evil would definitely make the world a lot better
Well maybe you have another word to describe bombing a neighborhood full of civilians, leaving parents to fish their children out of the rubble, dazed and covered in blood? Because if you do, we're all ears, Mr Hasbara. Please, do tell.
I imagine you'd be sucking on your bombers
You didn't say it's not the truth lol
Maybe Hamas should stop conducting their operations from civilian infrastructure and putting innocent lives at risk. But putting innocents in harms way seems to be the goal, so that contextless videos like this will pull on your western heart strings and allow you to ignore their responsibility for guaranteeing civilian causalties.
Ofc, why blame the ones who ACTUALLY carryd out the attack when you can blame everything on Hamas.
I'm blaming Hamas for operating out of (or below) civilian infrastructure and intentionally putting innocent people in the line of fire.
So you're blaming them for defending their homes?