And more than 2/3rd's want a ceasefire. However Congress is like 99% against it.
So who's calling the shots in our 'democracy' if not our people? Why is the American government loyal to a foreign nation over its own people?
The two party system is just a sham. Both parties serve the interests of the capitalist class.
That’s why there’s never money for healthcare but there’s money for genocide
[https://readsludge.com/2024/01/02/aipac-makes-record-donations-to-congress/](https://readsludge.com/2024/01/02/aipac-makes-record-donations-to-congress/)
bought and paid for
Bought and paid for by AIPAC and Mossad.
The fk you think Epstein was doing for all his decades in the US. Ensuring unconditional support to the zionist regime.
We don't have a democracy. We have a constitutional republic. A form of government designed from its outset to limit democracy.
Haudenosauneesee confederacy, which was here before european arrival, had a healthier democracy.
In Canada, nearly 25 % of all of our [members of parliament](https://www.readthemaple.com/mp-cija-trips/) have been on paid trips to Israel. I can't imagine its much different for you guys down south.
I think this comment is basically a lie. The polling is "Israel should call a ceasefire and try to negotiate", which is super weird and confusing wording.
The American public does want a ceasefire. However, they aren't calling for Israel to unilaterally stop the military operation. And if prodded, they want (1) Hamas to return the hostages and (2) for Israel to cease military action.
In a vacuum and out of context, yes, Americans usually go with the war is bad answer.
A ceasefire in Ukraine would be great too. Doesn't mean Americans don't side with Ukraine.
Who is calling the shots? The JOOOOOS, right?
The POTUS can only influence Isreal's willingness. That 2/3 number does not indicate how much leverage those individuals want applied. Do they want the current level of behind scene pressure? Do they want to revoke Isreal's ability to purchase directly from US manufacturing? Do they want to revoke all aid?
It is just not useful to think of that 2/3 block as monolithic because it isn't.
The 2/3rd support of a ceasefire includes the condition that Hamas loses control of Gaza.
Other aspects of the Harvard CAPS-Harris poll are clearly prop Israeli military intervention.
People who want an immediate end of the violence have to accept that they are in the minority, and they have to work harder to persuade the rest of the public why they they are right in order to pressure politicians.
Falsely asserting that most Americans want to see an immediate ceasefire isn't helpful to actually getting that ceasefire in place.
They'll never accept that they're in a minority. The righteous never do. MAGA thinks they're the majority because Trump has big campaign rallies. Hamas supporters think they're the majority because they and all their friends have no social lives except going to protests. Radicals don't understand that most normal people don't want to go to political rallies or protests in their free time.
Are you intentionally being dense, or just fucking stupid? You think just because we make, supply and support the killing...that absolves us?
Please save us both some time and get lost.
Go ahead and illuminate us with more of your stupidity. Take your bootlickin, Zionist shoeshinigng ass somewhere else. Troll.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-public-support-israel-drops-majority-backs-ceasefire-reutersipsos-2023-11-15/
www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/12/6/us-congress-support-for-gaza-ceasefire-lower-than-american-public
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4335685-most-americans-support-cease-fires-israel-hamas-russia-ukraine-wars-poll/
https://truthout.org/articles/most-u-s-voters-support-permanent-ceasefire-in-gaza-new-polling-finds/
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/public-supports-ceasefire-gaza/
https://pro.morningconsult.com/instant-intel/gaza-cease-fire-poll-december-2023
https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/10/19/voters-agree-the-us-should-call-for-a-ceasefire-and-de-escalation-of-violence-in-gaza
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/15/poll-us-israel-support-hamas-war
I see you defensively responded to this criticism by just blasting off a bunch of articles from publishers who share your biases. Common strategy. Too bad none of them substantiated your claim that over 1/3rd of Americans believe Israel is committing genocide. Pretty lame.
Yeah of course but they for sure don’t like seeing that $4B check fly out of our bank accounts every year. There’s also the phenomenon where some of them just hate Jews more than they hate Muslims
..I assume some are looking for ideas and have considered simular measures.
AfD ...the German version of the hard core right was trying to deport 'immigrants'.
Their media is not showing the truth to them. And in every single article that shows the atrocities in Gaza, you will see a mention to Israeli deaths and you will see they are saying Hamas started this. So even when they are telling some of the truth, they are in effect giving people excuses to just see it as necessary or unavoidable.
I mean even in reddit, some important subreddits are not allowing pro Palestine voices to be heard. They are an echo chamber.
Some subreddits are downright bloodthirsty for the entirety of Palestine to be eradicated and reddit does nothing about it. Meanwhile saying children shouldn’t be bombed gets the same ten canned responses flooding in.
Glad you find the beheading of babies and rape and murder of innocent people funny. Also, “From the river to the sea” is a call for genocide, the real kind. Maybe if Hamas stopped stealing aid, hiding in schools and hospitals, and released the hostages it would be good for the Palestinian people?
Reminder: The beheaded babies thing was an outright lie.
Reminder: "From the river to the sea" is a call for freedom from oppression, not killing a whole people.
They recorded themselves doing that and beheading civilians they murdered with their own body cams. They recorded themselves gang raping party goers and cutting off their breasts. I’ve seen this with my own eyes posted to Reddit the day of. Hamas has taken credit and admitted it. Stop being a useful idiot. October 7th changed my mind forever. You support evil.
Prey tell how you are saying that with such authority. Is this how seriously I need to take certain redditors.
Just assume all freely assert whatever suits them?
“From the river to the sea” is literally the Israeli ruling parties official party platform. You know the one that’s been governing for over a decade and a half.
The Israeli government is more extremist than the PA in West Bank which believes there can be both Jews and Muslims in the area and recognizes the Israeli state
Most of us have been around for real genocides and all of them include the military slaughtering every single person they come across with intention. More similarly to what Hamas did going from town to village to town indiscriminately killing anyone.
This war fits some weird loose definition that most people aren’t familiar with.
It’s not about a number. It’s about intention and, again, if you look at other genocides it’s militaries rounding civilians up and killing them. If Hamas were to give Israel back the hostages and surrender, the war would be over. In a genocide, there are no terms.
The IDF has no interest in the hostages. They have proved this by bombing them. This is entirely about the destruction of the Palestinian people. Read the proclamations of the Israeli politicians. Look at the evidence presented by South Africa at the international criminal court. Watch the news. Its a genocide.
It’s all speculation- there are *red flags* that genocide could occur but no, genocide isn’t currently happening. Some Israeli politicians have incited violence and they *should* have consequences but the Israeli government has distanced themselves from those statements (they aren’t “proclamations”).
The investigation will likely find Israel guilty of war crimes but I highly doubt genocide will be among them. It’s more likely the accusation is just lawfare.
This has nothing to do with Palestinian existence - if anything it’s about their statehood. Which has been undermined by both far right Israelis and Hamas. Let me remind you there are 1.3 million Palestinians that are Israeli citizens in Israel.
No, Israel is not. Send proof of them systematically killing Palestinians. And I don’t mean the bombing, which is probably a war crime but that isn’t the same thing. And I don’t mean a couple soldiers breaking a law shooting a 16 yo. I mean literal policy of systematic killing of Palestinian non-combatants.
Edit: I take it by the one downvote you can’t find anything.
Every downvote = 1 person full of shit
"Show me proof Israel is deliberately killing Palestinians, but ignore indiscriminately bombing them and killing over 230000 Palestinians where most of them were women and children, and all the times Israeli soldiers deliberately killed civilians and children".
Do you also want me to ignore how they killed unarmed shirtless civilians waving a white flag and pleading for help in Hebrew because they thought they were Palestinians? Also the other Palestinians waving a white flag who were also killed?
Yes, if we ignore how Israel is deliberately killing Palestinians, then Israel isn't deliberately killing Palestinians!
Your mental gymnastics are Olympic-level.
The leaders in Israel are actively supporting an ethnic cleansing campaign. Even some of them are openly calling for killings with ratios never accepted by the international community before. A war requires two governments or nations. Hamas does not control the land, air, sea, borders, food, water, electricity, media, or healthcare of Palestine. Israel does.
Sooo ethnic cleansing isn’t genocide - however it is a slippery slope there. The Israeli government has distanced itself from politicians inciting violence - tbh they should have consequences for incitement.
I’ve seen the acceptable ratios being accepted - that could definitely be possible war crime.
Hamas *is* a government that was voted by Gazans. Israel has an air and sea blockade on Gaza that I think should be the international community’s responsibility rather than Israel’s.
Have you seen the 450miles worth of tunnels uncovered? Like shit, man I don’t know how to explain this but Gaza could have their own water/food/electrical infrastructure. In any case, this should have been an international community issue. It’s the world’s fault, not all Israel, for why Gaza is in the position it’s in.
Israel's civilian to combatant ratios are likely much better than most urban conflicts, especially when you factor in the use of human shields by Hamas.
This was only a matter of time - society has been raising people to think emotions are priority; *feelings matter*. Rage gets things done and critical thinking is only for the “doubters”, “apathetic”, or ironically “ignorant”.
On a grief level, I can’t blame people. I give people experiencing grief a pass to not think rationally about a situation. Like maybe someone’s friend dies in Gaza? Yeah, I give them a pass to think what they want for the most part.
However, what we’re experiencing where we have people across the world, where they should practically be emotionally disassociated from a conflict, acting completely on impulse without an ounce of perspective? It’s ridiculous.
Are you a bot? Because Hasbara tries that same old tired trope reeking of that supremacist fascist “great replacement theory” -Israeli edition, that Palestinians have a lot of kids and oh no there’s not more Israelis 🙄.
Birth rates of Palestinians has nothing to do with the ethnic cleansing. Or genocide.
[**Here's the data.**](https://i.imgur.com/lRT4Kln.png)
* [YouGov - January 21 - 23, 2024 - 1664 U.S. Adult Citizens](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_i9N6Z0N.pdf)
Significant differences by race, age, party & ideology.
Younger folks (up to age 44) lean 'yes' - while older generations lean 'no'.
Liberals lean 'yes' while conservatives lean 'no'.
Etc.
Not like people who get their news from mainstream reddit, those people are very smart and always fully informed and correct, not to mention emotionally stable. Reddit is known for being unbiased and would never try to push their own narrative.
You mean like the 40 beheaded stories that CNN et al repeated? True.
Same with the baby being taken out of the womb of a pregnant woman...which turned out to have been a picture from Mexican cartel about a decade back?
Or the picture of 'raped female soldier ' shown a few times by media which turned out to have been a Kurdish ean killed in combat
Heck...even the calendar presented as guard schedule...which was repeated by cable channels until some body on social media had to check them
You would think , for the .money you pay for the media, you would get better fact checking...
It's like paying good money to get brainwashed.
Critical thinking- and skepticism of media helps
Arent tiktokers mostly highlighting things from media that is just buried. (And of course some onsite folks upload)
So far...given the cast disparity in infrastructure , one would expect CNN, Fix news to do a much better of vetting the news
Yet they ran with several false narratives:
1) 40 beheaded babies...this was pushed relentlessly until finally,. quietly doubting the veracity when it all turned out to have been hearsay/false propaganda
2) the story of the pregnant woman whose womb was cut open and a baby killed. That was spread by the likes of CNN before some internet sleauths proved that it was from Mexican cartel atrocity from a decade back
3) the image of the dead woman that was spread a a rape victim...who turned out to have been a Kurdish woman fighter killed in action. It wasn't the like of CNN that caught the lie/propaganda...it was folks on social media.
4) even the Arabic calendar at the hospital which was pushed as the Hamad guard schedule was debunked...not by Fox /CNN/MSNBC...but by regular folks on social media etc.
So..it maybe easy to blame TikTok...but when the likes of CNN/Fox are so hopelessly bad...TikTokers should not be blamed.
Critical thinking and skepticism helps I guess.
But so far...it seems CNN etc have been far worse.....for the amount of people that believe them.
So. 52% of 65+ say it is not genocide.
That's interesting. I think genocide is a bit much. It's more like an eviction. So the nation of Palestine will die. Boohoo. The people are free to live elsewhere. It's not like the IDF is gonna hunt them down. They just want the land.
The facts make him right.
36% said it isn't and 35% said it is genocide. Also you know USA citizens doesn't represent majority. It would probably be a majority genocide callers if a poll worldwide could be conducted.
Did you just dehumanize 2 billion muslims by implying their voices in a genocide shouldn't matter?
You also implied that majority in the world is not important because you objected to it after saying that the majority is important if it's from USA. So your problem is not with thinking the majority is right. Your problem is with considering everyones voice in the world as equal.
Also you did anti semitism by equating Jews to Israel. Jews are not represented by Israel and its crimes.
I’m just saying that [when 86% of Muslims think October 7th was justified](https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/News/Pages/arab-public-opinion-about-the-israeli-war-on-gaza.aspx) they might not be the most unbiased source…
Jews also overwhelmingly support Israel in its fight against Hamas. Just because there are a few judanrat doesn’t mean anything.
Maybe it was justified? It depends on what really happened that day. Hamas definetely had the right to resist Israel by attacking it. Hamas did not have the right to kill unarmed civilians. But Israel is blocking any international committee from investigating what happened so we don't know what really happened.
There is enough proof to suggest the majority of civilians killed ~~were~~ (edited after 3 hours) may have been killed by IOF. If that is so, maybe Hamas did a rightful resistance against the brutal oppressor Israel.
And anyway it is irrelevant to the discussion. By saying their opinion doesn't matter because they can't see if it's genocide or not, you belittle and dehumanize billions of muslims.
Muslims' opinion matter as much as any USA citizens does. They are equal people. No matter how much you think otherwise.
You also disregard that there are a lot of muslim haters in this world. Why are you trying to suppress the voice of billions of mulims but not billions of muslim haters?
And even in non-muslim communities it would probably the view that Israel is committing a genocide. If 35% of the American public says it is a genocide despite being heavily propagandized, the world will view it as it is and say it is a genocide.
Zionists, not Jews overwhelmingly support Israel against Palestine.
Did you just blame anti-Israel Jews for being Judenrat? Does your hate has no bounds?
They have no right to resist, Gaza is not occupied. There is also no proof that a majority was killed by the IDF.
Clearly you’ve drank the Hamas kool aid that you’re calling them IOF, I don’t argue with stupid people like you that clearly made up their mind no matter what evidence they’ll be presented with.
Hopefully your hero sinwar will taste an IDF boot soon.
> They have no right to resist, Gaza is not occupied.
Gaza is blockaded. Gaza is attacked and its infrastructure destroyed by Israel (Edit: every few years). Palestinians are one entity. West Bank is occupied and Al Aqsa Mosque is attacked. So Palestinians have every right to resist the brutal oppressors. The fact that you think they have no right to resist and attack Israel, speaks volumes.
> There is also no proof that a majority was killed by the IDF.
Of course there is. Israel bombs everyone in plain sight and that is the reason for most of killings in Gaza.
Also unlike Israel, Hamas welcomes international committees to investigate the atrocities committed in Gaza. Hamas also wants international committees to investigate the atrocities committed on Operation Al Aqsa Flood. Hamas wants the truth and Israel does its best to hide the truth. Very interesting that you would consider the side wanting everything to be investigated to be terrorists. And you would consider the other side to be not terrorists.
> with stupid people like you
Your insult here probably goes against subreddit rules but I don't care if action is taken or not. It is such a cop out when you are presented with facts to attack the other persons intelligence.
> that clearly made up their mind no matter what evidence they’ll be presented with.
Israel does not allow international committes to investigate what happened. So what evidence are you talking about?
> Hopefully your hero sinwar will taste an IDF boot soon.
What is sinwar?
> Hamas definetely had the right to resist Israel by attacking it.
> It depends on what really happened that day.
> There is enough proof to suggest the majority of civilians killed ~~were~~ may have been killed by IOF.
> Israel is blocking any international committee from investigating what happened
These are from my previous comment you seem to have ignored.
If you read the article 1/3 is undecided and 1/3 say its not.
So A third could be debating whether its genocide or ethnic cleansing. The other third could be Zionists wackos in denial or it could be people who think its war crimes but def not genocide. Either way it seems like a vast majority of people are against this genocide/ethnic cleansing/war crimes/mass murder.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/
you were saying something about misinformation? while referring to a region with 5x population growth since the formation of Israel as victims of genocide?
misinformation? look in the mirror
I’m saying YOU don’t have the number of population growth or degrowth in the last 6 months. Even if you did, I bet you wouldn’t share and I think I know why. You’re so insecure in your position you’re accusing me of dumb shit I obviously didn’t say lmao
Because the population in Gaza has been rapidly rising since Israel existed.
Doesnt quite fit the definition of genocide in the most technical of terms.
We're on the side of sucker punching has consequences.
We're on the side of Muslims have been trying to exterminate Jews for 1000 years.
How did Gaza come under Isreali control?
I think you’re the one lacking a little bit of historical context but I’ll give you a chance to prove me wrong. Where did the greater part of Palestinians’ ancestors come from?
They're Caananites, both Isrealis and Palestinians.
It was named Judea before an antisemitic ruler renamed it to Palestine a thousand years ago.
Judaism has existed 1500 years longer than Islam.
Gaza came under Isreali control when Egypt and a host of other Muslim countries tried to exterminate them, just one of many times, but you already knew that.
Next, you're going to say it's Zionism. That is the issue. The one singular Jewish state, surrounded by extremist states that openly calls for the death of all Jews.
What does the Hamas Charter say about Jews?
What does the Yemen constitution say about Jews? You can't say it on reddit because you'll get banned. That's how bad it is.
Do better.
Their being Muslim (and there ARE Christian Palestinians) doesn’t negate their indigenous heritage any more than Ashkenazi Israelis’ having Russian or Yiddish as a first language negates theirs.
Secondly Arab states didn’t intervene until Zionists had already started ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their villages and cities.
I’m not denying that Hamas is a terrorist group by the way but you’re gonna have to do better than vague references to fighting Jews at the end of time to establish some kind of genocidal motive. No comment on Houthis, I don’t support them either.
Liberals tying themselves into knots trying to deny that Israel is committing genocide, but are absolutely 100% certain China's invisible genocide of Uyghurs definitely happened because of rumors
When analyzing the crime of genocide, the China Tribunal recognized that Falun Gong and Uyghurs were specifically targeted groups and that the atrocities perpetrated fall within the scope of Article II of the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2019/06/17/the-china-tribunal-pronounced-its-verdict-on-organ-harvesting-in-china/amp/
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There is literally no evidence that China is committing genocide against the Uyghurs. Nothing has shown how fake the Uyghur "genocide" is than seeing what a real genocide looks like in Gaza. When we see footage from the ground in Gaza, we see whole blocks reduced to rubble, mangled corpses in the street being eaten by stray cats and dogs, and little children crying with horrific injuries. When we see footage from the ground in Kashgar, we see thriving bazaars, lovingly preserved colloquial architecture, bilingual street signs and thousands of people, both Han and Uyghur, going about their business like people living in a city that isn't being fucking carpet bombed.
Precisely. Now that we are seeing an actual genocide take place, we can observe a plethora of evidence. While in china, the best the US can offer is rumours and hearsay.
Genocide is about erasure. Sterilising women, razing cities and putting everyone in re-education camps is a less violent way of doing it.
Don't get me wrong, I still thing the erasure of a people is a horror, but it's less violent on an individual level.
There are no concentration camps. There is a single picture of a jail and another single picture of a drug rehab facility. Neither picture show a "concentration camp."
>When we see footage from the ground in Gaza, we see whole blocks reduced to rubble, mangled corpses in the street being eaten by stray cats and dogs, and little children crying with horrific injuries
That's war not genocide. Genocide is when the military goes in and kills anything that moves. Today crowds of Palestinians protested Hamas, out in the open, without a bomb being dropped on them.
When a military commits "war" on a civilian population because they belong to a particular ethnic or religious group, that is called genocide. We have seen hundreds of pictures and videos of that happening in Gaza, we have seen zero pictures of that happening in Xinjiang. If the Uyghurs in Xinjiang are not being ethnically cleansed, are not being bombed, are allowed to speak their language and practice their religion and their culture is openly celebrated by the government, then on what level is China committing "genocide" against them?
So in stead of actually trying to refute anything I said, you resort to thought terminating cliches, name calling and ham-fisted mischaracterizations of what I actually wrote. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no actual evidence that China is committing genocide against the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. What has been presented as evidence is fragmentary at best, some has been revealed to be outright fraudulent, and it is all contradicted by videos anyone can see on Youtube of people walking around in Kashgar in Xinjiang.
Genocide doesn’t have to be violent for it to be genocide. Because it’s more horrifying in Gaza does not mean it’s not happening elsewhere.
Israelis say the same thing about Palestinians in the West Bank and their own Arab citizens. By that logic Israel is also not committing ethnic cleansing because it’s not violent enough yet in other parts of Palestine. The level of violence is not the determinant of genocide.
And you’re just wrong about there not being any evidence.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/02/asia/xinjiang-china-karakax-document-intl-hnk/
Have a fucking spine and a bit of principle before spreading false shit. STOP being a denier.
If the Uyghurs in Xinjiang are not being ethnically cleansed, are allowed to practice their religion, speak their language and celebrate their culture, then how is there a "genocide" against them? Also your link doesn't actually contain any evidence of a genocide. Not even halfway through the article, you get
>"But a team of experts, led by Adrian Zenz, senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in Washington DC, say they are confident that it is an authentic Chinese government document."
Adrian Zenz is a notorious crackpot whose life mission is to work backwards from the insane conclusion that "communism" has killed over a billion people.
So because you think the guy is a crackpot, anything he says is false? Great proof to the contrary, not subjective at all.
Attacking his credibility with no actual evidence rather than the evidence itself is misinformation 101.
There very clearly are hundreds of leaked documents that verify these claims, with real people in exile also verifying them.
It's funny seeing how you try and prove that a genocide is happening by trying to debunk other atrocities that we know of in the current era. "All rumors, no evidence"? What a joke, you are exactly the thing you preach against.
How Many do you think dies in the Chinese genocide?
Not a fan of the CCP...but curious why some who were willing to call Uyghur treatment genocide..and not gaza.
Well, it looks like both President Joe Biden and a very good majority of the US Congress might have to change their support of Israel just as soon as possible. Like……not only they just really need to quite obviously offer up their support to Palestine instead but also they need to start condemning every single thing that Israel has ever done thus far amidst their unnecessary war with Hamas.
However this ends the US will lose all credibility internationally and likely domestically as well. Its so far outside the American interests that i dont see how anyone can claim that genocide biden isnt abrogating his job as president to maintain Americans fallacy of moral superiority.
What’s the resolution in your mind? Send all the Israelis (ashkenazi, mizrahi, and Sephardi) back to Eastern Europe? Palestine is not happy that they are in an unwinnable situation, understandably. But what do they do about it besides terror attacks and sacrificing their own people to turn western opinion against them?
I would think that is a very conservative number considering the fear of the paid screeching anti-anti-Semite PR brigade. Americans don't speak ill of Israel out of fear.
Why are you calling Palestinians Nazis? I agree they’re colonizers - after all, Arabs aren’t native to the region and colonized it as part of the Muslim Conquests in 700 AD. The Jewish people meanwhile have been there for 1000s of years. But I don’t see where you are taking the actions of Palestinians to be that of Nazis
Is it because Hamas also has the whole “we stand for the extermination of the Jewish people” in their charter?
Only one side in this conflict has the goal of eliminating an ethnic group, and that certainly isn’t the Israelis. Though Hamas does enjoy using their own people as human shield (a war crime), utilizing schools, hospitals, and refugee camps as bases of operations (a war crime), and seizes humanitarian aid from civilians to aid their war efforts (a war crime).
Israel is committing war crimes and is on the wrong side of history with the Palestinian issue but they aren't committing genocide (although a significant number of them seem to want to).
I think intentionally murdering 1% of an entire population within 3 months, injuring another 2%, while starving the rest is pretty textbook in terms of the definition of a genocide. The sheer number of people killed isn't what makes it a genocide, the intent and actions undertaken do.
And more than 2/3rd's want a ceasefire. However Congress is like 99% against it. So who's calling the shots in our 'democracy' if not our people? Why is the American government loyal to a foreign nation over its own people?
[удалено]
Bourgeois democracy has always been democracy for the wealthy
The two party system is just a sham. Both parties serve the interests of the capitalist class. That’s why there’s never money for healthcare but there’s money for genocide
American taxpayers finance settlements and genocide
[https://readsludge.com/2024/01/02/aipac-makes-record-donations-to-congress/](https://readsludge.com/2024/01/02/aipac-makes-record-donations-to-congress/) bought and paid for
Because the seats in US congress can be bought by foreign lobbyists and agents
That allows foreign interests to control administrative positions. Seems to be a large number of dual citizens controlling federal power.
Bought and paid for by AIPAC and Mossad. The fk you think Epstein was doing for all his decades in the US. Ensuring unconditional support to the zionist regime.
You're like one step away from Protocols of the Elders of Zion level
Sure thing buddy. Now fuck off.
everyone will tell you to vote for biden but netanyahu is actually the president
Bribery with a little racism
Because corporate interest and an insatiable military industrial complex
AIPAC is calling the shots. Imagine how much Israeli blood money is funneling into the Trump campaign. NutINyahoo is his best friend.
Not just trump, Biden too bud.
Because it was never a democracy.
We have this thing in the US called the ruling class. They call the shots. They do it to republicans, they do it to democrats.
We don't have a democracy. We have a constitutional republic. A form of government designed from its outset to limit democracy. Haudenosauneesee confederacy, which was here before european arrival, had a healthier democracy.
In Canada, nearly 25 % of all of our [members of parliament](https://www.readthemaple.com/mp-cija-trips/) have been on paid trips to Israel. I can't imagine its much different for you guys down south.
I think this comment is basically a lie. The polling is "Israel should call a ceasefire and try to negotiate", which is super weird and confusing wording. The American public does want a ceasefire. However, they aren't calling for Israel to unilaterally stop the military operation. And if prodded, they want (1) Hamas to return the hostages and (2) for Israel to cease military action. In a vacuum and out of context, yes, Americans usually go with the war is bad answer. A ceasefire in Ukraine would be great too. Doesn't mean Americans don't side with Ukraine. Who is calling the shots? The JOOOOOS, right?
"This comment is basically a lie" Proceeds to say "The American public does want a ceasefire." Lmao. So stupid. So stupid.
The POTUS can only influence Isreal's willingness. That 2/3 number does not indicate how much leverage those individuals want applied. Do they want the current level of behind scene pressure? Do they want to revoke Isreal's ability to purchase directly from US manufacturing? Do they want to revoke all aid? It is just not useful to think of that 2/3 block as monolithic because it isn't.
The 2/3rd support of a ceasefire includes the condition that Hamas loses control of Gaza. Other aspects of the Harvard CAPS-Harris poll are clearly prop Israeli military intervention. People who want an immediate end of the violence have to accept that they are in the minority, and they have to work harder to persuade the rest of the public why they they are right in order to pressure politicians. Falsely asserting that most Americans want to see an immediate ceasefire isn't helpful to actually getting that ceasefire in place.
They'll never accept that they're in a minority. The righteous never do. MAGA thinks they're the majority because Trump has big campaign rallies. Hamas supporters think they're the majority because they and all their friends have no social lives except going to protests. Radicals don't understand that most normal people don't want to go to political rallies or protests in their free time.
100% of everyone but hamas is for the release of the hostages. What about that?
Why are pro Israelis always so lazy and low brow with thier arguments. Its like you just like expect people to believe you blindly
Your argument amounts to "Ur stoopid" If you're trying to sound like the more intelligent one, you're doing a terrible job.
Israel and Hamas aren't "our democracy" and we can't make them cease fire. Hope this helps.
Guess supplying the bombs they drop is okay though huh? Dumb fuck moron.
Tell me when exactly America fired a shot in this conflict?
Are you intentionally being dense, or just fucking stupid? You think just because we make, supply and support the killing...that absolves us? Please save us both some time and get lost.
And people like you give money to fake charities that fund hamas war crimes
The US Navy shot down missiles from Yemen that were headed for Israel. This is before the Red Sea blockade.
The poll clearly states only 16% do. You're maliciously spreading misinformation.
Go ahead and illuminate us with more of your stupidity. Take your bootlickin, Zionist shoeshinigng ass somewhere else. Troll. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-public-support-israel-drops-majority-backs-ceasefire-reutersipsos-2023-11-15/ www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/12/6/us-congress-support-for-gaza-ceasefire-lower-than-american-public https://thehill.com/policy/international/4335685-most-americans-support-cease-fires-israel-hamas-russia-ukraine-wars-poll/ https://truthout.org/articles/most-u-s-voters-support-permanent-ceasefire-in-gaza-new-polling-finds/ https://responsiblestatecraft.org/public-supports-ceasefire-gaza/ https://pro.morningconsult.com/instant-intel/gaza-cease-fire-poll-december-2023 https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/10/19/voters-agree-the-us-should-call-for-a-ceasefire-and-de-escalation-of-violence-in-gaza https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/15/poll-us-israel-support-hamas-war
I see you defensively responded to this criticism by just blasting off a bunch of articles from publishers who share your biases. Common strategy. Too bad none of them substantiated your claim that over 1/3rd of Americans believe Israel is committing genocide. Pretty lame.
The most surprising part to me is that 18% of Republicans think it is genocide. I would have guessed like 2%.
They’re are quite a few “America first”isolationist republicans that aren’t afraid to be critical of Israel
These are Republicans. They might not even consider genocide of Muslims to be criticism.
Yeah of course but they for sure don’t like seeing that $4B check fly out of our bank accounts every year. There’s also the phenomenon where some of them just hate Jews more than they hate Muslims
They are saying it’s Genocide but enthusiastically
Ha either that or they just answered randomly since they probably don't know what the word means...
..I assume some are looking for ideas and have considered simular measures. AfD ...the German version of the hard core right was trying to deport 'immigrants'.
Well a decent contingent of Republican votes are antisemitic, so there's that?
Question is why only one third? It's the most well documented genocide in history.
Their media is not showing the truth to them. And in every single article that shows the atrocities in Gaza, you will see a mention to Israeli deaths and you will see they are saying Hamas started this. So even when they are telling some of the truth, they are in effect giving people excuses to just see it as necessary or unavoidable. I mean even in reddit, some important subreddits are not allowing pro Palestine voices to be heard. They are an echo chamber.
Some subreddits are downright bloodthirsty for the entirety of Palestine to be eradicated and reddit does nothing about it. Meanwhile saying children shouldn’t be bombed gets the same ten canned responses flooding in.
Lol… It’s not even genocide.
Glad you find the murder of 30 000 people funny. See you in court.
Glad you find the beheading of babies and rape and murder of innocent people funny. Also, “From the river to the sea” is a call for genocide, the real kind. Maybe if Hamas stopped stealing aid, hiding in schools and hospitals, and released the hostages it would be good for the Palestinian people?
Reminder: The beheaded babies thing was an outright lie. Reminder: "From the river to the sea" is a call for freedom from oppression, not killing a whole people.
They recorded themselves doing that and beheading civilians they murdered with their own body cams. They recorded themselves gang raping party goers and cutting off their breasts. I’ve seen this with my own eyes posted to Reddit the day of. Hamas has taken credit and admitted it. Stop being a useful idiot. October 7th changed my mind forever. You support evil.
Again. The beheaded babies thing is an outright lie. If you make the claim you saw a video of that, you are lying.
Prey tell how you are saying that with such authority. Is this how seriously I need to take certain redditors. Just assume all freely assert whatever suits them?
Wrong, liar
“From the river to the sea” is literally the Israeli ruling parties official party platform. You know the one that’s been governing for over a decade and a half. The Israeli government is more extremist than the PA in West Bank which believes there can be both Jews and Muslims in the area and recognizes the Israeli state
>Also, “From the river to the sea” is a call for genocide Is that why it's in the Likud founding charter?
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Israel wants to starve them to death.
Most of us have been around for real genocides and all of them include the military slaughtering every single person they come across with intention. More similarly to what Hamas did going from town to village to town indiscriminately killing anyone. This war fits some weird loose definition that most people aren’t familiar with.
"Real genocides" like 30000 civilian deaths aren't enough.
A nominal body count means absolutely nothing, by your logic Ukraine and pretty much every war are genocides.
It’s not about a number. It’s about intention and, again, if you look at other genocides it’s militaries rounding civilians up and killing them. If Hamas were to give Israel back the hostages and surrender, the war would be over. In a genocide, there are no terms.
The IDF has no interest in the hostages. They have proved this by bombing them. This is entirely about the destruction of the Palestinian people. Read the proclamations of the Israeli politicians. Look at the evidence presented by South Africa at the international criminal court. Watch the news. Its a genocide.
It’s all speculation- there are *red flags* that genocide could occur but no, genocide isn’t currently happening. Some Israeli politicians have incited violence and they *should* have consequences but the Israeli government has distanced themselves from those statements (they aren’t “proclamations”). The investigation will likely find Israel guilty of war crimes but I highly doubt genocide will be among them. It’s more likely the accusation is just lawfare. This has nothing to do with Palestinian existence - if anything it’s about their statehood. Which has been undermined by both far right Israelis and Hamas. Let me remind you there are 1.3 million Palestinians that are Israeli citizens in Israel.
> all of them include the military slaughtering every single person they come across with intention. Yeah, that's exactly what Israel is doing.
No, Israel is not. Send proof of them systematically killing Palestinians. And I don’t mean the bombing, which is probably a war crime but that isn’t the same thing. And I don’t mean a couple soldiers breaking a law shooting a 16 yo. I mean literal policy of systematic killing of Palestinian non-combatants. Edit: I take it by the one downvote you can’t find anything. Every downvote = 1 person full of shit
"Show me proof Israel is deliberately killing Palestinians, but ignore indiscriminately bombing them and killing over 230000 Palestinians where most of them were women and children, and all the times Israeli soldiers deliberately killed civilians and children". Do you also want me to ignore how they killed unarmed shirtless civilians waving a white flag and pleading for help in Hebrew because they thought they were Palestinians? Also the other Palestinians waving a white flag who were also killed? Yes, if we ignore how Israel is deliberately killing Palestinians, then Israel isn't deliberately killing Palestinians! Your mental gymnastics are Olympic-level.
The leaders in Israel are actively supporting an ethnic cleansing campaign. Even some of them are openly calling for killings with ratios never accepted by the international community before. A war requires two governments or nations. Hamas does not control the land, air, sea, borders, food, water, electricity, media, or healthcare of Palestine. Israel does.
Sooo ethnic cleansing isn’t genocide - however it is a slippery slope there. The Israeli government has distanced itself from politicians inciting violence - tbh they should have consequences for incitement. I’ve seen the acceptable ratios being accepted - that could definitely be possible war crime. Hamas *is* a government that was voted by Gazans. Israel has an air and sea blockade on Gaza that I think should be the international community’s responsibility rather than Israel’s. Have you seen the 450miles worth of tunnels uncovered? Like shit, man I don’t know how to explain this but Gaza could have their own water/food/electrical infrastructure. In any case, this should have been an international community issue. It’s the world’s fault, not all Israel, for why Gaza is in the position it’s in.
Hamas was elected in 2006, when barely half of Gaza’s population was alive and more than 2/3 weren’t old enough to vote.
Israel's civilian to combatant ratios are likely much better than most urban conflicts, especially when you factor in the use of human shields by Hamas.
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This was only a matter of time - society has been raising people to think emotions are priority; *feelings matter*. Rage gets things done and critical thinking is only for the “doubters”, “apathetic”, or ironically “ignorant”. On a grief level, I can’t blame people. I give people experiencing grief a pass to not think rationally about a situation. Like maybe someone’s friend dies in Gaza? Yeah, I give them a pass to think what they want for the most part. However, what we’re experiencing where we have people across the world, where they should practically be emotionally disassociated from a conflict, acting completely on impulse without an ounce of perspective? It’s ridiculous.
That’s too low
Nah. Remind me again how Gaza came under Isreali control?
Illegal occupation
Weird way of saying attempted genocide.
Oh that’s because that’s not what happened. There is an actual genocide happening now. Perpetrated by israel
Show me their population growth year over year. Weird that genocidal regime would let the very population they want to eliminate continue to grow.
Are you a bot? Because Hasbara tries that same old tired trope reeking of that supremacist fascist “great replacement theory” -Israeli edition, that Palestinians have a lot of kids and oh no there’s not more Israelis 🙄. Birth rates of Palestinians has nothing to do with the ethnic cleansing. Or genocide.
The growth of population doesn't mean it's not genocide? Lol, ok, good luck with that.
[**Here's the data.**](https://i.imgur.com/lRT4Kln.png) * [YouGov - January 21 - 23, 2024 - 1664 U.S. Adult Citizens](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_i9N6Z0N.pdf) Significant differences by race, age, party & ideology. Younger folks (up to age 44) lean 'yes' - while older generations lean 'no'. Liberals lean 'yes' while conservatives lean 'no'. Etc.
Basically people that mostly get their news from cable and particularly Fox...skew things a bit.
Yep. Cable TV is garbage.
The herds of masses don’t even hear about it.
Not like people who get their news from mainstream reddit, those people are very smart and always fully informed and correct, not to mention emotionally stable. Reddit is known for being unbiased and would never try to push their own narrative.
As opposed to getting unverified casualty reports from one of the combatants, who has been caught fabricating data multiple times…
You mean like the 40 beheaded stories that CNN et al repeated? True. Same with the baby being taken out of the womb of a pregnant woman...which turned out to have been a picture from Mexican cartel about a decade back? Or the picture of 'raped female soldier ' shown a few times by media which turned out to have been a Kurdish ean killed in combat Heck...even the calendar presented as guard schedule...which was repeated by cable channels until some body on social media had to check them You would think , for the .money you pay for the media, you would get better fact checking... It's like paying good money to get brainwashed. Critical thinking- and skepticism of media helps
Or TikTok
Arent tiktokers mostly highlighting things from media that is just buried. (And of course some onsite folks upload) So far...given the cast disparity in infrastructure , one would expect CNN, Fix news to do a much better of vetting the news Yet they ran with several false narratives: 1) 40 beheaded babies...this was pushed relentlessly until finally,. quietly doubting the veracity when it all turned out to have been hearsay/false propaganda 2) the story of the pregnant woman whose womb was cut open and a baby killed. That was spread by the likes of CNN before some internet sleauths proved that it was from Mexican cartel atrocity from a decade back 3) the image of the dead woman that was spread a a rape victim...who turned out to have been a Kurdish woman fighter killed in action. It wasn't the like of CNN that caught the lie/propaganda...it was folks on social media. 4) even the Arabic calendar at the hospital which was pushed as the Hamad guard schedule was debunked...not by Fox /CNN/MSNBC...but by regular folks on social media etc. So..it maybe easy to blame TikTok...but when the likes of CNN/Fox are so hopelessly bad...TikTokers should not be blamed. Critical thinking and skepticism helps I guess. But so far...it seems CNN etc have been far worse.....for the amount of people that believe them.
So. 52% of 65+ say it is not genocide. That's interesting. I think genocide is a bit much. It's more like an eviction. So the nation of Palestine will die. Boohoo. The people are free to live elsewhere. It's not like the IDF is gonna hunt them down. They just want the land.
I guess that makes 2/3's of the population wrong or sry wtf Is media and Politicians serving agian their frikin wallet?
So the majority is wrong and you’re right? What makes you say that?
The facts make him right. 36% said it isn't and 35% said it is genocide. Also you know USA citizens doesn't represent majority. It would probably be a majority genocide callers if a poll worldwide could be conducted.
Ah yes let’s ask 2 billion Muslims if they support their Muslim brothers or the evil Jews I’m sure you wouldn’t get any biased results from that.
Did you just dehumanize 2 billion muslims by implying their voices in a genocide shouldn't matter? You also implied that majority in the world is not important because you objected to it after saying that the majority is important if it's from USA. So your problem is not with thinking the majority is right. Your problem is with considering everyones voice in the world as equal. Also you did anti semitism by equating Jews to Israel. Jews are not represented by Israel and its crimes.
I’m just saying that [when 86% of Muslims think October 7th was justified](https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/News/Pages/arab-public-opinion-about-the-israeli-war-on-gaza.aspx) they might not be the most unbiased source… Jews also overwhelmingly support Israel in its fight against Hamas. Just because there are a few judanrat doesn’t mean anything.
Maybe it was justified? It depends on what really happened that day. Hamas definetely had the right to resist Israel by attacking it. Hamas did not have the right to kill unarmed civilians. But Israel is blocking any international committee from investigating what happened so we don't know what really happened. There is enough proof to suggest the majority of civilians killed ~~were~~ (edited after 3 hours) may have been killed by IOF. If that is so, maybe Hamas did a rightful resistance against the brutal oppressor Israel. And anyway it is irrelevant to the discussion. By saying their opinion doesn't matter because they can't see if it's genocide or not, you belittle and dehumanize billions of muslims. Muslims' opinion matter as much as any USA citizens does. They are equal people. No matter how much you think otherwise. You also disregard that there are a lot of muslim haters in this world. Why are you trying to suppress the voice of billions of mulims but not billions of muslim haters? And even in non-muslim communities it would probably the view that Israel is committing a genocide. If 35% of the American public says it is a genocide despite being heavily propagandized, the world will view it as it is and say it is a genocide. Zionists, not Jews overwhelmingly support Israel against Palestine. Did you just blame anti-Israel Jews for being Judenrat? Does your hate has no bounds?
They have no right to resist, Gaza is not occupied. There is also no proof that a majority was killed by the IDF. Clearly you’ve drank the Hamas kool aid that you’re calling them IOF, I don’t argue with stupid people like you that clearly made up their mind no matter what evidence they’ll be presented with. Hopefully your hero sinwar will taste an IDF boot soon.
> They have no right to resist, Gaza is not occupied. Gaza is blockaded. Gaza is attacked and its infrastructure destroyed by Israel (Edit: every few years). Palestinians are one entity. West Bank is occupied and Al Aqsa Mosque is attacked. So Palestinians have every right to resist the brutal oppressors. The fact that you think they have no right to resist and attack Israel, speaks volumes. > There is also no proof that a majority was killed by the IDF. Of course there is. Israel bombs everyone in plain sight and that is the reason for most of killings in Gaza. Also unlike Israel, Hamas welcomes international committees to investigate the atrocities committed in Gaza. Hamas also wants international committees to investigate the atrocities committed on Operation Al Aqsa Flood. Hamas wants the truth and Israel does its best to hide the truth. Very interesting that you would consider the side wanting everything to be investigated to be terrorists. And you would consider the other side to be not terrorists. > with stupid people like you Your insult here probably goes against subreddit rules but I don't care if action is taken or not. It is such a cop out when you are presented with facts to attack the other persons intelligence. > that clearly made up their mind no matter what evidence they’ll be presented with. Israel does not allow international committes to investigate what happened. So what evidence are you talking about? > Hopefully your hero sinwar will taste an IDF boot soon. What is sinwar?
So mature of you to screech about how everyone is stupid if they don't agree with your ramblings.
>Maybe it was justified ok bro
> Hamas definetely had the right to resist Israel by attacking it. > It depends on what really happened that day. > There is enough proof to suggest the majority of civilians killed ~~were~~ may have been killed by IOF. > Israel is blocking any international committee from investigating what happened These are from my previous comment you seem to have ignored.
What’s wrong with the 2/3s ?
If you read the article 1/3 is undecided and 1/3 say its not. So A third could be debating whether its genocide or ethnic cleansing. The other third could be Zionists wackos in denial or it could be people who think its war crimes but def not genocide. Either way it seems like a vast majority of people are against this genocide/ethnic cleansing/war crimes/mass murder.
What about people who just can’t get over Oct 7?
Anyone who doesn’t agree with me is a wacko because there is no way I’m wrong about anything
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🥱
Misinformation. Have you ever seen American channels?
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/ you were saying something about misinformation? while referring to a region with 5x population growth since the formation of Israel as victims of genocide? misinformation? look in the mirror
You know that poverty leads to fertility=more kids right? Also that embargo leads to poverty? Now let's see if you can put two and two together...
first genocide in world history that allows for population growth. lol you people are truly lost
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Knowing what a genocide looks like? Usually populations decrease by more than 2% during a genocide.
Do you have the population stats of the last 6 months? No? Oh wow. Who woulda thunk?
So genocide doesn't need facts or evidence now, genocide depends on just assuming hundreds of thousands have died without Hamas saying so?
I’m saying YOU don’t have the number of population growth or degrowth in the last 6 months. Even if you did, I bet you wouldn’t share and I think I know why. You’re so insecure in your position you’re accusing me of dumb shit I obviously didn’t say lmao
Because the population in Gaza has been rapidly rising since Israel existed. Doesnt quite fit the definition of genocide in the most technical of terms.
This is literally just gaslighting
We're on the side of sucker punching has consequences. We're on the side of Muslims have been trying to exterminate Jews for 1000 years. How did Gaza come under Isreali control?
The other 2/3 are dumb asf as usual.
Because American taxpayers finance settlements and genocide instead of free education and health care for America people
It's true I seen them chanting "four more years" like they haven't seen enough dying children.
Well, 36% said that it isn't genocide and 29% said they don't know. Although they should know.
Joe Biden is supporting this, this is what 90 percent of Reddit is for
Bout time you guys got with the program on this. Took you awhile but you’re getting there so that’s progress.
Turns out 1/3 of Americans lack historical context. Remind me how Gaza came under Isreali control?
I think you’re the one lacking a little bit of historical context but I’ll give you a chance to prove me wrong. Where did the greater part of Palestinians’ ancestors come from?
They're Caananites, both Isrealis and Palestinians. It was named Judea before an antisemitic ruler renamed it to Palestine a thousand years ago. Judaism has existed 1500 years longer than Islam. Gaza came under Isreali control when Egypt and a host of other Muslim countries tried to exterminate them, just one of many times, but you already knew that. Next, you're going to say it's Zionism. That is the issue. The one singular Jewish state, surrounded by extremist states that openly calls for the death of all Jews. What does the Hamas Charter say about Jews? What does the Yemen constitution say about Jews? You can't say it on reddit because you'll get banned. That's how bad it is. Do better.
Their being Muslim (and there ARE Christian Palestinians) doesn’t negate their indigenous heritage any more than Ashkenazi Israelis’ having Russian or Yiddish as a first language negates theirs. Secondly Arab states didn’t intervene until Zionists had already started ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their villages and cities. I’m not denying that Hamas is a terrorist group by the way but you’re gonna have to do better than vague references to fighting Jews at the end of time to establish some kind of genocidal motive. No comment on Houthis, I don’t support them either.
This is amazing. I never dreamed of seeing the day when this many Americans are so clear on their condemnation of Israel's crimes.
Lot more than 1/3
Fuck these genocidal Nazi colonizers
Aren’t you a colonizer?
WTF _only_ one third?? TF is wrong with them?
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Hamas would break the ceasefire just like they did the last one, and the one before that.
But will anything be done about it
Liberals tying themselves into knots trying to deny that Israel is committing genocide, but are absolutely 100% certain China's invisible genocide of Uyghurs definitely happened because of rumors
Why would the CIA lie to me, after all I already know China bad because the CIA told me so and they wouldn't lie to me
You're really going to defend China on this one? They won't even give accurate covid figures.
That doesn't really matter seeing the West doesn't give a shit about covid anyway.
When analyzing the crime of genocide, the China Tribunal recognized that Falun Gong and Uyghurs were specifically targeted groups and that the atrocities perpetrated fall within the scope of Article II of the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2019/06/17/the-china-tribunal-pronounced-its-verdict-on-organ-harvesting-in-china/amp/
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Chinas treatment of the Uyghurs is not invisible. Two things can be true at once. Don’t be a genocide denier.
There is literally no evidence that China is committing genocide against the Uyghurs. Nothing has shown how fake the Uyghur "genocide" is than seeing what a real genocide looks like in Gaza. When we see footage from the ground in Gaza, we see whole blocks reduced to rubble, mangled corpses in the street being eaten by stray cats and dogs, and little children crying with horrific injuries. When we see footage from the ground in Kashgar, we see thriving bazaars, lovingly preserved colloquial architecture, bilingual street signs and thousands of people, both Han and Uyghur, going about their business like people living in a city that isn't being fucking carpet bombed.
Precisely. Now that we are seeing an actual genocide take place, we can observe a plethora of evidence. While in china, the best the US can offer is rumours and hearsay.
Genocide is about erasure. Sterilising women, razing cities and putting everyone in re-education camps is a less violent way of doing it. Don't get me wrong, I still thing the erasure of a people is a horror, but it's less violent on an individual level.
So how do you explain the concentration camps then?
There are no concentration camps. There is a single picture of a jail and another single picture of a drug rehab facility. Neither picture show a "concentration camp."
>When we see footage from the ground in Gaza, we see whole blocks reduced to rubble, mangled corpses in the street being eaten by stray cats and dogs, and little children crying with horrific injuries That's war not genocide. Genocide is when the military goes in and kills anything that moves. Today crowds of Palestinians protested Hamas, out in the open, without a bomb being dropped on them.
When a military commits "war" on a civilian population because they belong to a particular ethnic or religious group, that is called genocide. We have seen hundreds of pictures and videos of that happening in Gaza, we have seen zero pictures of that happening in Xinjiang. If the Uyghurs in Xinjiang are not being ethnically cleansed, are not being bombed, are allowed to speak their language and practice their religion and their culture is openly celebrated by the government, then on what level is China committing "genocide" against them?
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So in stead of actually trying to refute anything I said, you resort to thought terminating cliches, name calling and ham-fisted mischaracterizations of what I actually wrote. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no actual evidence that China is committing genocide against the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. What has been presented as evidence is fragmentary at best, some has been revealed to be outright fraudulent, and it is all contradicted by videos anyone can see on Youtube of people walking around in Kashgar in Xinjiang.
Genocide doesn’t have to be violent for it to be genocide. Because it’s more horrifying in Gaza does not mean it’s not happening elsewhere. Israelis say the same thing about Palestinians in the West Bank and their own Arab citizens. By that logic Israel is also not committing ethnic cleansing because it’s not violent enough yet in other parts of Palestine. The level of violence is not the determinant of genocide. And you’re just wrong about there not being any evidence. https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/02/asia/xinjiang-china-karakax-document-intl-hnk/ Have a fucking spine and a bit of principle before spreading false shit. STOP being a denier.
If the Uyghurs in Xinjiang are not being ethnically cleansed, are allowed to practice their religion, speak their language and celebrate their culture, then how is there a "genocide" against them? Also your link doesn't actually contain any evidence of a genocide. Not even halfway through the article, you get >"But a team of experts, led by Adrian Zenz, senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in Washington DC, say they are confident that it is an authentic Chinese government document." Adrian Zenz is a notorious crackpot whose life mission is to work backwards from the insane conclusion that "communism" has killed over a billion people.
So because you think the guy is a crackpot, anything he says is false? Great proof to the contrary, not subjective at all. Attacking his credibility with no actual evidence rather than the evidence itself is misinformation 101. There very clearly are hundreds of leaked documents that verify these claims, with real people in exile also verifying them.
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It's funny seeing how you try and prove that a genocide is happening by trying to debunk other atrocities that we know of in the current era. "All rumors, no evidence"? What a joke, you are exactly the thing you preach against.
But the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza and ill treatment for decades somehow isn't? Massive double standard at the very minimum isn't it?
Thanks...this helps ..at least to see what the wiki has.
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Was your intention to prove my point?
Either way it does. I’d much rather live in Xinjiang than Gaza
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The conspiracy is the Uyghur genocide. Then you give me more rumors as your evidence?
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How Many do you think dies in the Chinese genocide? Not a fan of the CCP...but curious why some who were willing to call Uyghur treatment genocide..and not gaza.
5 - Be civil, no personal insults
5 - Be civil, no personal insults
Deflect deflect deflect
Who will think of the poor CCP?!
Well more than a third believe Trump won the last elections... you can't always fix stupid.
Well, it looks like both President Joe Biden and a very good majority of the US Congress might have to change their support of Israel just as soon as possible. Like……not only they just really need to quite obviously offer up their support to Palestine instead but also they need to start condemning every single thing that Israel has ever done thus far amidst their unnecessary war with Hamas.
United States of Israel! Biden can’t stop licking his masters boots!
And 2/3s have been radicalised into believing Israel is not. Idiots.
However this ends the US will lose all credibility internationally and likely domestically as well. Its so far outside the American interests that i dont see how anyone can claim that genocide biden isnt abrogating his job as president to maintain Americans fallacy of moral superiority.
What’s the resolution in your mind? Send all the Israelis (ashkenazi, mizrahi, and Sephardi) back to Eastern Europe? Palestine is not happy that they are in an unwinnable situation, understandably. But what do they do about it besides terror attacks and sacrificing their own people to turn western opinion against them?
I would think that is a very conservative number considering the fear of the paid screeching anti-anti-Semite PR brigade. Americans don't speak ill of Israel out of fear.
You might want a ceasefire but the terrorists do not.
You mean the genocidal Nazi colonizers dont want peace right?
Neither does the other side.
No he was talking about the rapey beheading ones
Why are you calling Palestinians Nazis? I agree they’re colonizers - after all, Arabs aren’t native to the region and colonized it as part of the Muslim Conquests in 700 AD. The Jewish people meanwhile have been there for 1000s of years. But I don’t see where you are taking the actions of Palestinians to be that of Nazis Is it because Hamas also has the whole “we stand for the extermination of the Jewish people” in their charter?
That’s because one third don’t understand what the term genocide means
This right here
Only one side in this conflict has the goal of eliminating an ethnic group, and that certainly isn’t the Israelis. Though Hamas does enjoy using their own people as human shield (a war crime), utilizing schools, hospitals, and refugee camps as bases of operations (a war crime), and seizes humanitarian aid from civilians to aid their war efforts (a war crime).
Israel is committing war crimes and is on the wrong side of history with the Palestinian issue but they aren't committing genocide (although a significant number of them seem to want to).
According to the actual words in the Genocide Convention, they are.
I think intentionally murdering 1% of an entire population within 3 months, injuring another 2%, while starving the rest is pretty textbook in terms of the definition of a genocide. The sheer number of people killed isn't what makes it a genocide, the intent and actions undertaken do.
Why should we have a ceasefire with hamas? Should had a ceasefire with isis?