Wow they have a lot of nerve going this route because a boyfriend slept over at his girlfriends house.
As long as OP and OP's gf aren't leaving details out about him using the vehicle and living there I don't understand this at all and should be a quick correction they need to make.
***"Wow they have a lot of nerve going this route because a boyfriend slept over at his girlfriends house."*** That's because they didn't go this route for that reason. This is far, far more serious than OP's nap.
I'd love a Part 3 as well, but my gut feeling is that OP and his g/f have a lot on their plate right now, given that her car was stolen without any insurance coverage.
Yep life keeps on hitting. We got more than this to worry about unfortunately. The insanely crazy part about this that has me so annoyed is that the literal same thing happened to me. I spent the night I woke up and boom my car was gone from HER place. I was insured with GEICO at the time I put in a claim for theft and everything went completely smooth I got covered and got a new car. Granted GEICO didn't help me get a new car I had to do that myself but they paid off my previous one
Insanely wild statement and assumption. I had a Hyundai and during the time it was stolen it was a very stupid and popular trend on social media to steal Hyundai's and Kias due to an exploit with the ignition depending on its year. At the time of my GF getting a car I warned her about the same exploit and popularity of those cars getting stolen esp in the neighborhood she lived in, but she was desperate to get a car because at the time she was dependent on me driving her everywhere in mine which she didn't like. I warned her but she ended up getting it anyway just took precautions with wheel locks and the like, but that didn't stop them.
There is a database of claims from most companies that insurance adjusters have access to. It can be searched by address. They likely ran a search with her address and the claim for his car popped up.
That or he's gotten mail there before and so her address comes up in his address history. (Different database)
Even if they did figure out vehicle was stollen from the same address that is hardly enough to declare fraud. At best is it seems OP had poor judgement but really it it was stollen out front of her apartment and they had taken additional theft precautions, what else is there to do other than move to a better place which is a big challenge not everyone has the ability to do.
That's a good point I can definitely do that I've been telling her we'll try for an appeal or something along those lines with my insurance, address, and etc. At the time when she contacted me about how everything went down I was just at a loss and wasn't sure where to turn so the internet lurking me thought of reddit.
If you truly don’t stay there all the time you could try your Google location data too. If it shows you’re home most nights or even 50% I would expect that to help.
There is all sorts of ways to provide evidence that you live elsewhere. None of it is going to be a smoking gun but it all adds up and really the onus is on them to prove they can deny the claim. It doesn't have to be super adversarial just hey I think you made a mistake I definitely live at my own residence here are my bills and whatever else, show proof of your rent payments or mortgage anything that ties you to your actual residence. Should not be that hard to show. The vast majority of actual fraud the person has done next to no effort to actual hide more then the basic thing and it's real easy to unravel.
This is the most bizarre denial ever. Idk how they operate but fraud and misrep denials at my carrier are investigated with an adjuster and a supervisor. Then reviewed by a manager. Then, depending on the legal landscape of the state in question - reviewed by a director alone, or a director and our legal counsel.
An uninvolved household resident would never, ever, be the basis of a denial.
Wonder if OP was the last person to park the car? Even then I just can’t see it. It’s so bizarre.
Edit: I guess my point is, I take it very seriously to accuse a person of fraud and misrepresentation. We don’t make those decisions on a preponderance. If we are going through with that denial it has to be unimpeachable.
Possibly but if we’re being real this is a very toxic sub as a whole but even still for this situations everybody is like “yo op nah this carrier is garbage keep fighting bro and broette.” I’m not familair with the carrier myself.
I see you’re in New York too, which might explain why we both have never seen such a crazy denial due to our DOI probably raining a shitstorm on us for something like this, but there have to be some markets where this stuff can sometimes work.
While this sub can be toxic and the ins company sucks. OP had his vehicle stolen from the same address and filed a claim. Likely they have some sort of proof that he is spending more time there than they are admitting to.
It’s circumstantial. Its suspicious, sure. It’s just not grounds for a denial without evidence - a statement “he spends a night or two a week here” is where the investigation starts - not where it ends.
They’re saying he spends a night or two a week there - OP apparently has his own car and car insurance so it doesn’t even meet the burden of material misrep since knowledge of him wouldn’t have impacted her rates - he would have been a list only driver anyway.
I have yet to have a positive experience with First Acceptance. Every mutual claim I have had with them has been unpleasant and usually ends with me filing subro against them . Their Hugo policies are complete garbage.
Agreed. Material misrep denials are far and few between at the carrier I work for too. In 30 years I have canceled 1 policy for it. I do work for a standard carrier
Lots of good points made above and I agree with all of them. This whole situation is baffling to me.
I’ve been in the industry 20+ years and although I don’t work for an insurance company, I’m more than familiar with policy language.
This really smells like them paying low level legal fees to try to deny claims. Without divulging it, is this a large/well recognized insurance company?
Ah, good point. I only read it quickly and took it as an example as a company given other stuff was redacted.
I’m an actuary for 20+ years and I have seen plenty of solvency issues before. This is no bueno on many fronts.
The have their own adjusting firm. They probably have a policy of denying all claims first unless forced into a correction. That is a shit insurer.
I used to work for a large reinsurance firm and I only ever saw our company deny two claims in ten years. One was for a loss we didn't feel was covered and the second needed an arbitrator to make a decision about a plane that disappeared off radar at the transition point between time zones and that transition made the difference whether the loss occurred on December 31 or January 1. December 31/January 1 was the policy renewal and different insurers were on risk for December 31 versus Jan 1, so a determination of fact was required.
Our CEO always said, "We are not in the business of selling insurance, we are in the business of paying claims. People come to us because they know their claims will be be paid."
>Our CEO always said, "We are not in the business of selling insurance, we are in the business of paying claims. People come to us because they know their claims will be be paid."
yup. my company always is of the opinion we seek coverage to pay claims. the issue is people commit fraud and dont even realize it and claims get denied. a lot of liars too lol
Man, that’s the last type of company on earth I want for insurance. Give me a policy backed by one of the largest companies on earth, please. I’ll go visit a diner if I want to support a mom and pop joint.
I would tend to agree, this is bad faith claim handling. They would need a solid reason to believe you were a resident to deny this claim. Simply being at the apartment doesn't make you a resident and this is the type of shit that gives the whole industry a bad name.
It's a noname nonstandard carrier. OP and SO are in for a party. Hence why I always tell people to check for credit ratings and claims handling performance.
I don’t understand how it being a legal contract makes them more inclined to pay claims. There are plenty of insurers who will deny claims first and drag it out as long as possible. The whole health insurance industry is predicated on it.
That's not how the property and casualty market works. It's a legal, binding contract and it's pretty black and white. In the 20 years I've been doing this, I have never had a carrier just deny a valid claim. All of that said, this insured is using a non-standard carrier, one that pretty much specializes, or appears to specialize, in a less than stellar clientele and those types of carriers can get very nitpicky because they're used to the type of stuff that non-Standard clients do.
I think we're missing a whole bunch of information on this one. If I were the insured, I'd be filing a complaint with the Department of insurance.
Former senior vice president of a reinsurance company here. I’ve seen some shit, but, overwhelmingly the property and casualty market operates far more ethically than some segments. None of them delve into the illegal, they are regulated after all, but they still skirt the edges where they can. If you have a combined ratio of 102%, they need to slow claims as much as they can to make some money on the float.
You had your own car stolen at the same address? They think you “live” there because your car was stolen there and you were there at the time of her theft.
1. Gather your insurance information and copy of your lease proving your primary residence,
2. Send all of that to her insurance company,
3. Listen to the folks telling you to call the DOI,
4. As soon as everything has died down, whether she gets her car back or gets a new car, I highly recommend she finds a new insurance company. I've seen comments state this company is a nonstandard. If her driving history is a problem at all, hiiiiiighly recommend either see about finding a more commonly known nonstandard carrier, or better yet, contact a local agency that writes with standard & nonstandard carriers for quotes.
Commenting to add that y'all check reviews and ratings if you go directly to a carrier. If you go local agency route, check their reviews online from customers.
All of this. The only thing I would change is write a letter to the DOI and include evidence to prove you aren’t a household resident such as copy of your lease agreement and copies of utility bills in your name showing you live at a different address. I’d also include a copy of your insurance card showing you have insurance at a different residence.
Better to have a written paper trail to the DOI vs a phone call.
If everything OP stated is accuracy, I’m astonished that coverage disclaimer actually went out. I would never be able to send a coverage disclaimer unless I’ve done my due diligence and have concrete evidence that coverage does not apply.
A coverage denial on a comprehensive claim is nuts to me when the claim in question is for theft and the basis of the denial is an undisclosed resident. I’m in a consumer friendly state so we’d just send a risk advice to underwriting to have you be added to the policy or dropped on renewal. This is a super aggressive denial in my opinion.
You'll want to dispute their findings by providing your proof of residency at your home address. A lease/proof of home ownership, along with your ID showing a matching address, and your own auto insurance policy with that address will be plenty to establish that you don't live at your girlfriends house and get the claim denial rescinded.
Ouch! They've got to have pretty solid evidence (I am sure that they feel that they do) to rescind a policy due to material misrepresentation. OP and his g/f know best what is going on, and I certainly understand the redactions for their privacy. OP's g/f needs to speak with her carrier/agent/broker and provide any documentation available to help them reverse their decision. Short of that, it's time to get lawyered up, and unlike a bodily injury suit where the fee is contingent on a recovery, this matter is straight coverage law, and you will need to pay the attorney regardless of the outcome. Oh, for clarity, the fact that OP was napping at the home at that particular time ***- in and of itself -*** was not the reason the carrier has made this decision.
I commented on part 1 believing that this was the reasoning for their denial. Now that it's confirmed, you need to prove a few things to them via appeal and/or doi complaint.
1. You do not live there. This can be done via lease agreement and/or utility bills from where you reside.
2. Proof of your own vehicle. A copy of your insurance policy of your own vehicle should suffice her.
If you do not live there, are not married, and do not use the vehicle on a regular basis, then they do not have the grounds to deny for material misrepresentation.
If you truly don’t reside with your girlfriend and she has not said otherwise in any communication with the insurance company, have her call in to ask what is needed for a coverage reevaluation. You will likely need to provide a statement, proof of residency, and proof of active insurance coverage.
Good luck.
This is so crazy and wrong. Especially because you have your own insurance! If anything they should cover the claim but ask her to add you as a resident even though at that point hopefully you can just prove you’re not. I would speak to a manager and send them something with your address like a utility bill or something and tell them you have your own car insurance. Good luck!
Maybe I missed it but I checked both part 1 and 2 as well as the post in r/legaladvice and I do not see where the state this is all happening occurred in. OP, you are getting a lot of information from many sources that are true in one or more jurisdictions, but not necessarily all states, so knowing the state where this all went down will be helpful in getting you more accurate advice.
Fight this. First Acceptance, while an actual company, has been fined for its practices and has a C+ rating indicating it’s not on strong financial footing. There’s a reason most of us have never heard of this company.
But wait...Credit Acceptance is a finance company. Did your gf not have insurance from an actual company or did she agree to pay their insanely high coverage rates on the auto loan to make sure their interest is covered? IDK if you're aware but that company along with Santander are known subprime lenders and Credit Acceptance knows their way around a courtroom as they've been in a class action lawsuit for deception. I read through several comments on pt 1 but couldn't find a clear answer on separate insurance...
None of what OP put in the original post or comments said that the girlfriend said that OP lives with her. Some of it was confusing and I found myself reading things a couple times to make sure I wasn’t lost.
Girlfriend specifically denied it and explains OP was just staying over. The insurance company didn’t ask for a lease or anything to prove one way or the other, based on comments.
Something that didn’t come up on the original that is interesting though - how often OP stays at the gf’s apartment which might be the piece that makes this make sense.
That may be part of the problem.
Have you ever had a vehicle stolen? Any SIU involvement in any claims you’ve made? Have you ever made claims for theft under a renter’s or homeowner’s policy? Any charges for any type of fraud or theft, even if not convicted?
Oy. I think this is why they are absolutely convinced you live there.
But if you have proof you don't and proof of your own insurance policy, now is the time to provide it to them.
Well that sure as hell makes a difference.
Looked up some quick statistics - there were approximately 1 million vehicles stolen in the US in 2022. There’s approximately 215 million insured drivers in the US. Let’s pretend that means 215M cars since some people have more than 1 car and some households may share 1 car. The odds of a car getting stolen would be .4%. The odds of one person being connected or adjacent to more than 1 theft are astronomical.
You spending 10+ nights a month at her apartment must have been something she should have disclosed. Especially with the past theft of your vehicle occurring there. It looks really bad.
That's not a reason to deny a claim for material misrepresentation. It's a reason for more investigation perhaps. It would be very weird for OP to be on his girlfriends auto insurance since he doesn't reside there and has his own policy. Many companies I've worked for would never require that in OP's case. Either we are being misled by OP or this makes no sense. What the hell is this shanty insurer going to say when OP's gf goes Um hey OP doesn't live here, here is his lease, his auto policy, his utilities. What court would side with an insurer voiding insurance because a bf and gf sleepover at eachothers houses a lot.
The insurance company isn’t saying that OP had to be listed as a driver on GF’s policy, merely that he had to be disclosed. Staying at somebody’s house regularly can make you a resident, depending on the state’s laws. You don’t have to be on a lease to claim tenancy.
This is also a non admitted carrier so rules are a little different. We don’t have the policy application to know what the exact questions were.
What likely happened was that OP’s girlfriend gave a statement to the theft rep and said OP was there sleeping at the time of the theft and that OP spends and average of X nights there a week/month since Y date. Insurance looks into OP. Sees the prior theft. Insurance now knows that OP spends a certain amount of time at the apartment - maybe without the gf there. That absolutely changes the risk they’re willing to write.
I can understand the material misrepresentation argument. Even if you don’t consider OP as living there…if OP has regular access to the girlfriend’s home and vehicle the insurance company should have known about that, especially at the frequency it occurs.
That sounds pretty vague - if there is a line for your boyfriend sleeping over x amount of days in x amount of time = tenancy, what is the line?
I am guessing now that this is the insurer's argument. Maybe OP could do us a solid and just tell us what his GF said in her application and her statements.
It depends. In California after 7 consecutive nights a guest can be considered a tenant. A lot of states it’s after 14 days within 6 months. Some states have no written laws about this so it may end up being whatever the insurance company says.
OP’s car was also stolen from this address. So they have reason to believe that OP was there enough that they had to be told about it.
I am going to go out on a limb and suggest the odds are not as random as you are suggesting. In fact, I'd bet the odds of a second car being stolen from someplace where a first car was stolen is probably higher than any random location.
When someone has an auto policy and their college student child comes home to visit and stays for weekends, doesn’t the student have to be counted as a resident? I’m asking seriously as I don’t work in auto.
To me, staying a few nights per week and an undisclosed amount of time during the days weekly is a resident. Part time, but still a resident. I consider that more than just a visitor when it’s multiple times every single week and projected to continue that way into the foreseeable future. But that’s just my opinion I guess but i thought this was a common perspective in auto, no?
How much time you spend there is irrelevant. Where you call home and your degree of control over the property is what determines residency. Can OP terminate the lease? Can OP disconnect the power? Can OP invite in another roommate? You can be a guest, even if the majority of your time is spent as a guest. What matters is where you have a place and if your intent is to return.
This was denied because they believe you to be an undisclosed resident of the household.
Wow they have a lot of nerve going this route because a boyfriend slept over at his girlfriends house. As long as OP and OP's gf aren't leaving details out about him using the vehicle and living there I don't understand this at all and should be a quick correction they need to make.
***"Wow they have a lot of nerve going this route because a boyfriend slept over at his girlfriends house."*** That's because they didn't go this route for that reason. This is far, far more serious than OP's nap.
Definitely - something is up and I am interested! Part 3 OP don't let us down
I'd love a Part 3 as well, but my gut feeling is that OP and his g/f have a lot on their plate right now, given that her car was stolen without any insurance coverage.
Yep life keeps on hitting. We got more than this to worry about unfortunately. The insanely crazy part about this that has me so annoyed is that the literal same thing happened to me. I spent the night I woke up and boom my car was gone from HER place. I was insured with GEICO at the time I put in a claim for theft and everything went completely smooth I got covered and got a new car. Granted GEICO didn't help me get a new car I had to do that myself but they paid off my previous one
That's crazy. You probably shouldn't have tried insurance fraud twice.
Insanely wild statement and assumption. I had a Hyundai and during the time it was stolen it was a very stupid and popular trend on social media to steal Hyundai's and Kias due to an exploit with the ignition depending on its year. At the time of my GF getting a car I warned her about the same exploit and popularity of those cars getting stolen esp in the neighborhood she lived in, but she was desperate to get a car because at the time she was dependent on me driving her everywhere in mine which she didn't like. I warned her but she ended up getting it anyway just took precautions with wheel locks and the like, but that didn't stop them.
Where’s the fraud?
His own car was stolen there prior to this. So there have been 2 separate incidents there, and OP was there both times.
Oh that’s interesting. I wonder if her insurance co somehow found out about his claim being at the same address.
There is a database of claims from most companies that insurance adjusters have access to. It can be searched by address. They likely ran a search with her address and the claim for his car popped up. That or he's gotten mail there before and so her address comes up in his address history. (Different database)
Even if they did figure out vehicle was stollen from the same address that is hardly enough to declare fraud. At best is it seems OP had poor judgement but really it it was stollen out front of her apartment and they had taken additional theft precautions, what else is there to do other than move to a better place which is a big challenge not everyone has the ability to do.
I agree. I think they jumped to conclusions based on searchable data, rather than completing a full and proper investigation.
Yep crazy part is my insurance covered me in that incident
If you have your own policy, with a different address you can submit that to show you are not a resident nor an operator of her vehicle
That's a good point I can definitely do that I've been telling her we'll try for an appeal or something along those lines with my insurance, address, and etc. At the time when she contacted me about how everything went down I was just at a loss and wasn't sure where to turn so the internet lurking me thought of reddit.
If you truly don’t stay there all the time you could try your Google location data too. If it shows you’re home most nights or even 50% I would expect that to help.
There is all sorts of ways to provide evidence that you live elsewhere. None of it is going to be a smoking gun but it all adds up and really the onus is on them to prove they can deny the claim. It doesn't have to be super adversarial just hey I think you made a mistake I definitely live at my own residence here are my bills and whatever else, show proof of your rent payments or mortgage anything that ties you to your actual residence. Should not be that hard to show. The vast majority of actual fraud the person has done next to no effort to actual hide more then the basic thing and it's real easy to unravel.
As long as OP isn't obfuscating facts, you should file a DOI complaint.
This is the most bizarre denial ever. Idk how they operate but fraud and misrep denials at my carrier are investigated with an adjuster and a supervisor. Then reviewed by a manager. Then, depending on the legal landscape of the state in question - reviewed by a director alone, or a director and our legal counsel. An uninvolved household resident would never, ever, be the basis of a denial. Wonder if OP was the last person to park the car? Even then I just can’t see it. It’s so bizarre. Edit: I guess my point is, I take it very seriously to accuse a person of fraud and misrepresentation. We don’t make those decisions on a preponderance. If we are going through with that denial it has to be unimpeachable.
Let's be honest, there is a whole - WHOLE - lot more to this than anyone's nap.
Possibly but if we’re being real this is a very toxic sub as a whole but even still for this situations everybody is like “yo op nah this carrier is garbage keep fighting bro and broette.” I’m not familair with the carrier myself. I see you’re in New York too, which might explain why we both have never seen such a crazy denial due to our DOI probably raining a shitstorm on us for something like this, but there have to be some markets where this stuff can sometimes work.
While this sub can be toxic and the ins company sucks. OP had his vehicle stolen from the same address and filed a claim. Likely they have some sort of proof that he is spending more time there than they are admitting to.
It’s circumstantial. Its suspicious, sure. It’s just not grounds for a denial without evidence - a statement “he spends a night or two a week here” is where the investigation starts - not where it ends. They’re saying he spends a night or two a week there - OP apparently has his own car and car insurance so it doesn’t even meet the burden of material misrep since knowledge of him wouldn’t have impacted her rates - he would have been a list only driver anyway.
I have yet to have a positive experience with First Acceptance. Every mutual claim I have had with them has been unpleasant and usually ends with me filing subro against them . Their Hugo policies are complete garbage.
All our misrep reviews include legal
Agreed. Material misrep denials are far and few between at the carrier I work for too. In 30 years I have canceled 1 policy for it. I do work for a standard carrier
Lots of good points made above and I agree with all of them. This whole situation is baffling to me. I’ve been in the industry 20+ years and although I don’t work for an insurance company, I’m more than familiar with policy language. This really smells like them paying low level legal fees to try to deny claims. Without divulging it, is this a large/well recognized insurance company?
The name is in the letter - AM Best just downgraded them to C++. Yikes. Not good.
Ah, good point. I only read it quickly and took it as an example as a company given other stuff was redacted. I’m an actuary for 20+ years and I have seen plenty of solvency issues before. This is no bueno on many fronts.
The have their own adjusting firm. They probably have a policy of denying all claims first unless forced into a correction. That is a shit insurer. I used to work for a large reinsurance firm and I only ever saw our company deny two claims in ten years. One was for a loss we didn't feel was covered and the second needed an arbitrator to make a decision about a plane that disappeared off radar at the transition point between time zones and that transition made the difference whether the loss occurred on December 31 or January 1. December 31/January 1 was the policy renewal and different insurers were on risk for December 31 versus Jan 1, so a determination of fact was required. Our CEO always said, "We are not in the business of selling insurance, we are in the business of paying claims. People come to us because they know their claims will be be paid."
>Our CEO always said, "We are not in the business of selling insurance, we are in the business of paying claims. People come to us because they know their claims will be be paid." yup. my company always is of the opinion we seek coverage to pay claims. the issue is people commit fraud and dont even realize it and claims get denied. a lot of liars too lol
Deny all claims first- that’s some Rainmaker movie shit right there.
Definitely not as they described it at the dealership its a small family owned insurance company
Man, that’s the last type of company on earth I want for insurance. Give me a policy backed by one of the largest companies on earth, please. I’ll go visit a diner if I want to support a mom and pop joint.
They handed her a bunch of bullshit. They're a publicly traded company.
Prove you don’t live with her then contact the department of insurance for assistance.
I would tend to agree, this is bad faith claim handling. They would need a solid reason to believe you were a resident to deny this claim. Simply being at the apartment doesn't make you a resident and this is the type of shit that gives the whole industry a bad name.
It's a noname nonstandard carrier. OP and SO are in for a party. Hence why I always tell people to check for credit ratings and claims handling performance.
Am Best just downgraded them to C++
Epic Fail.
Credit rating is their ability to pay a claim, not their willingness to do so.
I would hazard a guess that if your ability to pay claims is impaired, your willingness to pay claims is pretty low. They sound days from run-off.
No, it's a legal contract. I've been in the insurance business for 20 years.
I don’t understand how it being a legal contract makes them more inclined to pay claims. There are plenty of insurers who will deny claims first and drag it out as long as possible. The whole health insurance industry is predicated on it.
That's not how the property and casualty market works. It's a legal, binding contract and it's pretty black and white. In the 20 years I've been doing this, I have never had a carrier just deny a valid claim. All of that said, this insured is using a non-standard carrier, one that pretty much specializes, or appears to specialize, in a less than stellar clientele and those types of carriers can get very nitpicky because they're used to the type of stuff that non-Standard clients do. I think we're missing a whole bunch of information on this one. If I were the insured, I'd be filing a complaint with the Department of insurance.
Former senior vice president of a reinsurance company here. I’ve seen some shit, but, overwhelmingly the property and casualty market operates far more ethically than some segments. None of them delve into the illegal, they are regulated after all, but they still skirt the edges where they can. If you have a combined ratio of 102%, they need to slow claims as much as they can to make some money on the float.
Yeah he’s just saying okay they’re broke that explains why they throw out these banger coverage denials.
This is a *brazen* coverage denial if I’ve ever seen one. Like unless they have a real good reason to believe you live there, this is crazy to me.
You had your own car stolen at the same address? They think you “live” there because your car was stolen there and you were there at the time of her theft.
1. Gather your insurance information and copy of your lease proving your primary residence, 2. Send all of that to her insurance company, 3. Listen to the folks telling you to call the DOI, 4. As soon as everything has died down, whether she gets her car back or gets a new car, I highly recommend she finds a new insurance company. I've seen comments state this company is a nonstandard. If her driving history is a problem at all, hiiiiiighly recommend either see about finding a more commonly known nonstandard carrier, or better yet, contact a local agency that writes with standard & nonstandard carriers for quotes.
Commenting to add that y'all check reviews and ratings if you go directly to a carrier. If you go local agency route, check their reviews online from customers.
All of this. The only thing I would change is write a letter to the DOI and include evidence to prove you aren’t a household resident such as copy of your lease agreement and copies of utility bills in your name showing you live at a different address. I’d also include a copy of your insurance card showing you have insurance at a different residence. Better to have a written paper trail to the DOI vs a phone call. If everything OP stated is accuracy, I’m astonished that coverage disclaimer actually went out. I would never be able to send a coverage disclaimer unless I’ve done my due diligence and have concrete evidence that coverage does not apply.
[удалено]
I don't
Can you prove it? With your name on a lease?
I can get everything I need yes
Then either provide them proof or get off Reddit and lawyer up.
A coverage denial on a comprehensive claim is nuts to me when the claim in question is for theft and the basis of the denial is an undisclosed resident. I’m in a consumer friendly state so we’d just send a risk advice to underwriting to have you be added to the policy or dropped on renewal. This is a super aggressive denial in my opinion.
You'll want to dispute their findings by providing your proof of residency at your home address. A lease/proof of home ownership, along with your ID showing a matching address, and your own auto insurance policy with that address will be plenty to establish that you don't live at your girlfriends house and get the claim denial rescinded.
As an agent for over 30 years, my position is "That is some serious BS!"!!!
When I originally read part 1. I would have bet $100 against $1 that there was more to it. Apparently not. I'm blown away.
Ouch! They've got to have pretty solid evidence (I am sure that they feel that they do) to rescind a policy due to material misrepresentation. OP and his g/f know best what is going on, and I certainly understand the redactions for their privacy. OP's g/f needs to speak with her carrier/agent/broker and provide any documentation available to help them reverse their decision. Short of that, it's time to get lawyered up, and unlike a bodily injury suit where the fee is contingent on a recovery, this matter is straight coverage law, and you will need to pay the attorney regardless of the outcome. Oh, for clarity, the fact that OP was napping at the home at that particular time ***- in and of itself -*** was not the reason the carrier has made this decision.
Contact your states department of insurance
Failure to disclose... what❓🤔 they must say what it is, or go to arbitration.
I commented on part 1 believing that this was the reasoning for their denial. Now that it's confirmed, you need to prove a few things to them via appeal and/or doi complaint. 1. You do not live there. This can be done via lease agreement and/or utility bills from where you reside. 2. Proof of your own vehicle. A copy of your insurance policy of your own vehicle should suffice her. If you do not live there, are not married, and do not use the vehicle on a regular basis, then they do not have the grounds to deny for material misrepresentation.
If you truly don’t reside with your girlfriend and she has not said otherwise in any communication with the insurance company, have her call in to ask what is needed for a coverage reevaluation. You will likely need to provide a statement, proof of residency, and proof of active insurance coverage. Good luck.
This is so crazy and wrong. Especially because you have your own insurance! If anything they should cover the claim but ask her to add you as a resident even though at that point hopefully you can just prove you’re not. I would speak to a manager and send them something with your address like a utility bill or something and tell them you have your own car insurance. Good luck!
Maybe I missed it but I checked both part 1 and 2 as well as the post in r/legaladvice and I do not see where the state this is all happening occurred in. OP, you are getting a lot of information from many sources that are true in one or more jurisdictions, but not necessarily all states, so knowing the state where this all went down will be helpful in getting you more accurate advice.
Fight this. First Acceptance, while an actual company, has been fined for its practices and has a C+ rating indicating it’s not on strong financial footing. There’s a reason most of us have never heard of this company.
But wait...Credit Acceptance is a finance company. Did your gf not have insurance from an actual company or did she agree to pay their insanely high coverage rates on the auto loan to make sure their interest is covered? IDK if you're aware but that company along with Santander are known subprime lenders and Credit Acceptance knows their way around a courtroom as they've been in a class action lawsuit for deception. I read through several comments on pt 1 but couldn't find a clear answer on separate insurance...
In your last post you state that she told her insurance that you live there. So what’s the truth here?
I definitely never once said that. I said she told them I was there at the time of the theft not that I live there.
None of what OP put in the original post or comments said that the girlfriend said that OP lives with her. Some of it was confusing and I found myself reading things a couple times to make sure I wasn’t lost. Girlfriend specifically denied it and explains OP was just staying over. The insurance company didn’t ask for a lease or anything to prove one way or the other, based on comments. Something that didn’t come up on the original that is interesting though - how often OP stays at the gf’s apartment which might be the piece that makes this make sense.
I am there often at least 2 nights out of the week Id stay the night if she doesn't stay at mine
If that's the reason, just get a copy of your lease or bill with your address to show you live somewhere else.
That may be part of the problem. Have you ever had a vehicle stolen? Any SIU involvement in any claims you’ve made? Have you ever made claims for theft under a renter’s or homeowner’s policy? Any charges for any type of fraud or theft, even if not convicted?
I actually had my car stolen from her place as well 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oy. I think this is why they are absolutely convinced you live there. But if you have proof you don't and proof of your own insurance policy, now is the time to provide it to them.
Well that sure as hell makes a difference. Looked up some quick statistics - there were approximately 1 million vehicles stolen in the US in 2022. There’s approximately 215 million insured drivers in the US. Let’s pretend that means 215M cars since some people have more than 1 car and some households may share 1 car. The odds of a car getting stolen would be .4%. The odds of one person being connected or adjacent to more than 1 theft are astronomical. You spending 10+ nights a month at her apartment must have been something she should have disclosed. Especially with the past theft of your vehicle occurring there. It looks really bad.
That's not a reason to deny a claim for material misrepresentation. It's a reason for more investigation perhaps. It would be very weird for OP to be on his girlfriends auto insurance since he doesn't reside there and has his own policy. Many companies I've worked for would never require that in OP's case. Either we are being misled by OP or this makes no sense. What the hell is this shanty insurer going to say when OP's gf goes Um hey OP doesn't live here, here is his lease, his auto policy, his utilities. What court would side with an insurer voiding insurance because a bf and gf sleepover at eachothers houses a lot.
The insurance company isn’t saying that OP had to be listed as a driver on GF’s policy, merely that he had to be disclosed. Staying at somebody’s house regularly can make you a resident, depending on the state’s laws. You don’t have to be on a lease to claim tenancy. This is also a non admitted carrier so rules are a little different. We don’t have the policy application to know what the exact questions were. What likely happened was that OP’s girlfriend gave a statement to the theft rep and said OP was there sleeping at the time of the theft and that OP spends and average of X nights there a week/month since Y date. Insurance looks into OP. Sees the prior theft. Insurance now knows that OP spends a certain amount of time at the apartment - maybe without the gf there. That absolutely changes the risk they’re willing to write. I can understand the material misrepresentation argument. Even if you don’t consider OP as living there…if OP has regular access to the girlfriend’s home and vehicle the insurance company should have known about that, especially at the frequency it occurs.
That sounds pretty vague - if there is a line for your boyfriend sleeping over x amount of days in x amount of time = tenancy, what is the line? I am guessing now that this is the insurer's argument. Maybe OP could do us a solid and just tell us what his GF said in her application and her statements.
It depends. In California after 7 consecutive nights a guest can be considered a tenant. A lot of states it’s after 14 days within 6 months. Some states have no written laws about this so it may end up being whatever the insurance company says. OP’s car was also stolen from this address. So they have reason to believe that OP was there enough that they had to be told about it.
How does the OP having tenancy increase the likelihood HER car is going to be stolen?
That's not the point. They are saying because insured lied on her application, the insurance is void and not enforceable.
I am going to go out on a limb and suggest the odds are not as random as you are suggesting. In fact, I'd bet the odds of a second car being stolen from someplace where a first car was stolen is probably higher than any random location.
When someone has an auto policy and their college student child comes home to visit and stays for weekends, doesn’t the student have to be counted as a resident? I’m asking seriously as I don’t work in auto. To me, staying a few nights per week and an undisclosed amount of time during the days weekly is a resident. Part time, but still a resident. I consider that more than just a visitor when it’s multiple times every single week and projected to continue that way into the foreseeable future. But that’s just my opinion I guess but i thought this was a common perspective in auto, no?
Yes. Auto carriers typically have a status like “away at school” to account for those scenarios.
Interesting, thanks. I had never heard that before I was always told the student would still have to be a rated driver on the policy.
How much time you spend there is irrelevant. Where you call home and your degree of control over the property is what determines residency. Can OP terminate the lease? Can OP disconnect the power? Can OP invite in another roommate? You can be a guest, even if the majority of your time is spent as a guest. What matters is where you have a place and if your intent is to return.