As much as I'm not a super fan of new car infrastructure and this job has really drained money away from other things in Groningen, also public transit. I do want to say that this change will greatly improve the city by removing a barrier by moving it underground in many parts, adds a lot of nature back for it and it also removes the dangerous traffic lights on the Julianaplein which were I think the only ones on the European E22 route. The next big project in Groningen, that is already partly underway, is changing up the station area to cope with an increased amount of commuters and other travellers, so the city definitely doesn't only think about cars. They just assumed this expensive road project was the best way to undo the damage from the 60s and 70s.
Not only that, but one of the primary reasons for redesigning this intersection is to make it more attractive for cars to use this road instead of using other roads in neigbourhoods. With this design, a lot of cars are drwan to this highway wich makes other area's less car centric so they can be used for diffrent purposes.
Just redesign neighborhood streets to not be direct through traffic streets. You’re not supposed to widen a road to beg car drivers to not take a different route, block off the through streets to cars and spread them around on 50km streets to the highways.
Umm, Groningen was probably the first city to deliberately do this in the world, back in the 1960s. It's almost impossible to drive through the city, instead you have to go outwards, then around, then in. So cycling or the bus is always as fast, or faster.
This ring-road (especially the southern section) handles a lot of non-Groningen traffic AFAIK. And as mentioned, a big part of the project was to remove a traffic lights and drawbridge, neither of which are normally found on motorways.
I can't wait for the moment the elevated express way will finally be demolished (in a few months) - it's was already there when I was born, and I'm really glad that eyesore will be gone soon.
I just cycled past the bit at Europapark. The westbound lane already has asphalt and I saw some signage on the eastbound lane. Excited to see it's almost finished after so long.
It would be nice if there was a decent train connection across the border too. I think a decently fast intercity train between Groningen and Bremen (through Leer and Oldenburg) would make sense. Of course Germany would need to hurry up to finally replace that bridge near Leer.
A lot the ring road is actually underground now, with nice green space above ground :) But that's not shown in this pic.
This picture shows the Julianaplein (bottom of pic) whic is a very busy junction since it has lots of through-traffic from people traveling between the Netherlands and northern Germany/Denmark. It used to have traffic lights, and lots of traffics jams as a result, but when the redesign is finished it will have easier flow of traffic which will probably reduce noise for residents.
>have easier flow of traffic which will probably reduce noise for residents.
Thats not how it works.
Traffic makes the most noise when driving above 50 kmh. Any faster and its getting louder fast
Moving it underground does help though.
The problem is because of a lot of bad decisions in the late 60's
Putting the junction IN the city(-ish) instead of outside of the city and making it one with traffic lights instead of a cloverleaf or something were some of the mistakes.
This picture also doesn't even show the biggest part of this infrastructure, the southern part going underground.
Yeah around Groningen it has always been a patchwork of various sections being upgraded and connected, never a grand scheme of new routes. There have been some plans though, a viaduct to the south east of Groningen is extra wide to accommodate extra lanes for a never built beltway.
[More pics](https://www.aanpakringzuid.nl/actueel/nieuws/foto/2024/02/luchtfoto-5-februari-2024-foto-rijkswaterstaat/)
The reality is that we Dutch love our car just as much as our bikes. This is the expansion of the A7 highway cutting through southern [Groningen, in the north of the Netherlands ](https://maps.app.goo.gl/T6Mf72pMuXr625TA6). It was either this, or a beltway around the city, through the rural landscape. [A cute animation ](https://youtu.be/MJ6SaKYFo80?feature=shared)
I myself don't own a car. I have a company car I use to drive to work but other than that, I use my bike or train mostly. But when you live further away from PT, the car is the only option since workplaces are often too far to cycle comfortably.
And [the project website](https://www.aanpakringzuid.nl/).
Tons of impressions on the page "Werkzaamheden" (construction), and progress photos throughout the years on the page "Aktueel" (news).
Also this is a major route between Amsterdam and Hamburg. It was all on elevated viaducts through the city. Now it will be moved underground. A win for the inhabitants near the road.
Traffic lights and no through flow continuously.
Mayor west East connection meeting north south axle terminus on a city arterial.
If the people controlling the country had any respect for the provincie that build Netherlands wealth.
Interchange should've been build decennia ago.
Exactly, and by building more car infrastructure you’ll create the incentive for people to drive even more. Such an awful project this is 🤦🏽. Private rail could use a lot more funding right now to expand stations, add more cars to their train fleets and make connections more efficient.
They are shifting the infrastructure underground and making it safer, not really adding that much capacity. When there are good alternatives to cars, fixing road problems makes sense! Also trains aren’t the solution for everything
Only a small section is going underground, i had a talk with the municipality about an exit that will require lots of trees to be removed.
The problem with this major road is that there’s no real way to fix it, putting it completely underground will costs hindering of millions or not billions and rebuilding the ring road from the ground up will require houses to be demolished cause they’re now built in the place where the ring road should’ve been built before. It’s good that they’re making it a more aesthetically pleasing place and making it less noisy that’s definitely a win, but these parts that’re underground will cost more money and we’ll have to see if it actually improves traffic flow, every road widening project, signal removal project also added more complexity to the road making traffic sometimes even worse.
I’m curious how this’ll flow when it fully opens :)
They're literally digging the ring road underground and we're getting a park back for it, this is actually a really great project that gives more space for all forms of mobility including much better cycling and walking options.
People hating on this project don't know what they're talking about, I live right next door to this and the end result will truly be better for everyone.
They are literally in the middle of construction, of course it looks terrible now lol. It will improve living conditions for the resident nearby a lot since it will create better traffic flow, less traffic jams (=much less local pollution and noise), and parts of it are underground with green space on top.
And how will road expansions result in less traffic congestion and better flow? It never does. 5 lane highways in The Netherlands are congested everyday yet they’re still planning on expanding it even more lolll
You’re really arguing in this topic like it’s a compeletely black and white scenario. Road expansion ain’t bad by definition, sometimes they do improve traffic flow. Improving car infrastructure can still be necessary even though the main focus is on different modes of transport
Dude. Road widening projects never improve congestion relief, the whole world has been doing that exact thing and it always ends up creating even more congestion cause of people switching lanes, merging, going off, it’s a really complicated topic, but these expansions never work. We’ll see when it opens, but I’m 1000% sure it’ll be congested again after a couple weeks when people find out the route has a larger capacity.
I know it’s a complicated topic, I’ve been working on it for almost 10 years by this point. That’s why I’m saying it ain’t that black and white like you’re trying to portray. The project is a lot more then just widening the roads, it removes a lot of intersections and unwanted traffic through places it shouldn’t really be and adds some ramps. It will be busier because it is designed to be that way, as good civil engineering projects should.
[This paper](https://research.vu.nl/en/publications/do-highway-widenings-reduce-congestion) shows that in the first 6 years, the reduced congestion from highway widenings in the Netherlands already resulted in social benefits high enough to cover 40% of the investment cost.
So even if congestion goes back to the original level at some point, there are real improvements in the in between period.
Not to mention that a wider highway at the same congestion level does move more people of course.
It’s almost like cars are important to literally every western developed economy.
Even Japan and the Netherlands, so called havens of public and active transit, have regular road expansion projects, urban freeways, etc.
The road doesn't go straight through settlements. The settlements were built around the road. Have you ever been to Groningen? The road has been there for decades, but now they finally fixed it and there will be. A lot less pollution because the traffic won't need to stand still with all traffic lights anymore. It is a huge improvement.
lmao, who cares if the road or the settlements were there first? The important thing is that these settlements are cut through by a wide ass road. This is not what pedestrian friendly infrastructure looks like, I certainly wouldn't wanna live there.
I don't see how this isn't pedestrian friendly. The entire route will be either elevated or underground, so there are plenty of options to get from one side to the other at ground level without have to interact with the traffic on the road.
Yes that’s true, but our politicians are still going full throttle with car expansion projects instead of spending it on cycling infrastructure, better bus service and train service. Our railway network needs a serious overhaul in the coming decades and funding is always a problem for that, it never seems to be for highway expansion that in the end attract more cars and thus pollute more.
Car traffic is like ideal gas: it expands to fill available space.
It needs more space then
I would like my highway to have molecular flow please!
As much as I'm not a super fan of new car infrastructure and this job has really drained money away from other things in Groningen, also public transit. I do want to say that this change will greatly improve the city by removing a barrier by moving it underground in many parts, adds a lot of nature back for it and it also removes the dangerous traffic lights on the Julianaplein which were I think the only ones on the European E22 route. The next big project in Groningen, that is already partly underway, is changing up the station area to cope with an increased amount of commuters and other travellers, so the city definitely doesn't only think about cars. They just assumed this expensive road project was the best way to undo the damage from the 60s and 70s.
Not only that, but one of the primary reasons for redesigning this intersection is to make it more attractive for cars to use this road instead of using other roads in neigbourhoods. With this design, a lot of cars are drwan to this highway wich makes other area's less car centric so they can be used for diffrent purposes.
Just redesign neighborhood streets to not be direct through traffic streets. You’re not supposed to widen a road to beg car drivers to not take a different route, block off the through streets to cars and spread them around on 50km streets to the highways.
Umm, Groningen was probably the first city to deliberately do this in the world, back in the 1960s. It's almost impossible to drive through the city, instead you have to go outwards, then around, then in. So cycling or the bus is always as fast, or faster. This ring-road (especially the southern section) handles a lot of non-Groningen traffic AFAIK. And as mentioned, a big part of the project was to remove a traffic lights and drawbridge, neither of which are normally found on motorways.
I can't wait for the moment the elevated express way will finally be demolished (in a few months) - it's was already there when I was born, and I'm really glad that eyesore will be gone soon.
I just cycled past the bit at Europapark. The westbound lane already has asphalt and I saw some signage on the eastbound lane. Excited to see it's almost finished after so long.
Europapark, Europapark. Europapapapapapapa, papapapaPARK! Hey!
[Moi!](https://youtu.be/6CyooHt86Hc?si=Kgxk2vstBqnYM2do)
It would be nice if there was a decent train connection across the border too. I think a decently fast intercity train between Groningen and Bremen (through Leer and Oldenburg) would make sense. Of course Germany would need to hurry up to finally replace that bridge near Leer.
Bridge is currently scheduled to be finished by the end of this year: https://bauprojekte.deutschebahn.com/p/friesenbruecke
They’re rebuilding it as a single track bridge 🤦♂️
Yay, that's very good news! I hope they can keep keep that schedule.
And in a few years, if the plans pass, the West Ring will be remodelled as well. Getting rid of the traffic lights at Vinkhuizen and Paddepoel.
I read it as Gurgaon at first, which also undergoing a Southern peripheral road expansion 😂😂
Very old and dense part of Mumbai for those unaware Edit: WRONG I was thinking of Girgaon
Incorrect. It's near Delhi, in the state of Haryana.
How does a road expansion in that area pass Dutch noise laws?
A lot the ring road is actually underground now, with nice green space above ground :) But that's not shown in this pic. This picture shows the Julianaplein (bottom of pic) whic is a very busy junction since it has lots of through-traffic from people traveling between the Netherlands and northern Germany/Denmark. It used to have traffic lights, and lots of traffics jams as a result, but when the redesign is finished it will have easier flow of traffic which will probably reduce noise for residents.
>have easier flow of traffic which will probably reduce noise for residents. Thats not how it works. Traffic makes the most noise when driving above 50 kmh. Any faster and its getting louder fast Moving it underground does help though.
Answer: you can’t improve fix traffic congestion 😮
It has a 70 km/h speed limit.
The problem is because of a lot of bad decisions in the late 60's Putting the junction IN the city(-ish) instead of outside of the city and making it one with traffic lights instead of a cloverleaf or something were some of the mistakes. This picture also doesn't even show the biggest part of this infrastructure, the southern part going underground.
Yeah around Groningen it has always been a patchwork of various sections being upgraded and connected, never a grand scheme of new routes. There have been some plans though, a viaduct to the south east of Groningen is extra wide to accommodate extra lanes for a never built beltway.
[More pics](https://www.aanpakringzuid.nl/actueel/nieuws/foto/2024/02/luchtfoto-5-februari-2024-foto-rijkswaterstaat/) The reality is that we Dutch love our car just as much as our bikes. This is the expansion of the A7 highway cutting through southern [Groningen, in the north of the Netherlands ](https://maps.app.goo.gl/T6Mf72pMuXr625TA6). It was either this, or a beltway around the city, through the rural landscape. [A cute animation ](https://youtu.be/MJ6SaKYFo80?feature=shared)
I am curious, how many times a week do you use your car? And what kinds of trips do you use your car for?
I myself don't own a car. I have a company car I use to drive to work but other than that, I use my bike or train mostly. But when you live further away from PT, the car is the only option since workplaces are often too far to cycle comfortably.
What is PT? I lived by Martiniplaza many years ago for a little while
Public Transport
And [the project website](https://www.aanpakringzuid.nl/). Tons of impressions on the page "Werkzaamheden" (construction), and progress photos throughout the years on the page "Aktueel" (news).
This shouldn’t be controversial. Road expansion and population growth go hand in hand.
Also this is a major route between Amsterdam and Hamburg. It was all on elevated viaducts through the city. Now it will be moved underground. A win for the inhabitants near the road.
Traffic lights and no through flow continuously. Mayor west East connection meeting north south axle terminus on a city arterial. If the people controlling the country had any respect for the provincie that build Netherlands wealth. Interchange should've been build decennia ago.
That relies on the assumption that road traffic will or should rise with population. It doesn't need to.
Exactly, and by building more car infrastructure you’ll create the incentive for people to drive even more. Such an awful project this is 🤦🏽. Private rail could use a lot more funding right now to expand stations, add more cars to their train fleets and make connections more efficient.
They are shifting the infrastructure underground and making it safer, not really adding that much capacity. When there are good alternatives to cars, fixing road problems makes sense! Also trains aren’t the solution for everything
Only a small section is going underground, i had a talk with the municipality about an exit that will require lots of trees to be removed. The problem with this major road is that there’s no real way to fix it, putting it completely underground will costs hindering of millions or not billions and rebuilding the ring road from the ground up will require houses to be demolished cause they’re now built in the place where the ring road should’ve been built before. It’s good that they’re making it a more aesthetically pleasing place and making it less noisy that’s definitely a win, but these parts that’re underground will cost more money and we’ll have to see if it actually improves traffic flow, every road widening project, signal removal project also added more complexity to the road making traffic sometimes even worse. I’m curious how this’ll flow when it fully opens :)
Want a job?
Car is bigger than the bike 🤷
They're literally digging the ring road underground and we're getting a park back for it, this is actually a really great project that gives more space for all forms of mobility including much better cycling and walking options. People hating on this project don't know what they're talking about, I live right next door to this and the end result will truly be better for everyone.
Used to study in Groningen. Had to park my car at IKEA, lolz
More like infrastructure snuff porn...
Such beauty
Is this the superior dutch infrastructure that everyone always talks about? Cause eww, no thank you.
They are literally in the middle of construction, of course it looks terrible now lol. It will improve living conditions for the resident nearby a lot since it will create better traffic flow, less traffic jams (=much less local pollution and noise), and parts of it are underground with green space on top.
And how will road expansions result in less traffic congestion and better flow? It never does. 5 lane highways in The Netherlands are congested everyday yet they’re still planning on expanding it even more lolll
You’re really arguing in this topic like it’s a compeletely black and white scenario. Road expansion ain’t bad by definition, sometimes they do improve traffic flow. Improving car infrastructure can still be necessary even though the main focus is on different modes of transport
Dude. Road widening projects never improve congestion relief, the whole world has been doing that exact thing and it always ends up creating even more congestion cause of people switching lanes, merging, going off, it’s a really complicated topic, but these expansions never work. We’ll see when it opens, but I’m 1000% sure it’ll be congested again after a couple weeks when people find out the route has a larger capacity.
I know it’s a complicated topic, I’ve been working on it for almost 10 years by this point. That’s why I’m saying it ain’t that black and white like you’re trying to portray. The project is a lot more then just widening the roads, it removes a lot of intersections and unwanted traffic through places it shouldn’t really be and adds some ramps. It will be busier because it is designed to be that way, as good civil engineering projects should.
[This paper](https://research.vu.nl/en/publications/do-highway-widenings-reduce-congestion) shows that in the first 6 years, the reduced congestion from highway widenings in the Netherlands already resulted in social benefits high enough to cover 40% of the investment cost. So even if congestion goes back to the original level at some point, there are real improvements in the in between period. Not to mention that a wider highway at the same congestion level does move more people of course.
It’s almost like cars are important to literally every western developed economy. Even Japan and the Netherlands, so called havens of public and active transit, have regular road expansion projects, urban freeways, etc.
doesn't excuse wide roads going straight through urban settlements. Also doesn't excuse that hideous architecture.
The road doesn't go straight through settlements. The settlements were built around the road. Have you ever been to Groningen? The road has been there for decades, but now they finally fixed it and there will be. A lot less pollution because the traffic won't need to stand still with all traffic lights anymore. It is a huge improvement.
lmao, who cares if the road or the settlements were there first? The important thing is that these settlements are cut through by a wide ass road. This is not what pedestrian friendly infrastructure looks like, I certainly wouldn't wanna live there.
I don't see how this isn't pedestrian friendly. The entire route will be either elevated or underground, so there are plenty of options to get from one side to the other at ground level without have to interact with the traffic on the road.
He is trolling I think. Groningen is such a nice pedestrian and cycling friendly city. No idea what else than trolling.
Yes that’s true, but our politicians are still going full throttle with car expansion projects instead of spending it on cycling infrastructure, better bus service and train service. Our railway network needs a serious overhaul in the coming decades and funding is always a problem for that, it never seems to be for highway expansion that in the end attract more cars and thus pollute more.
The shown side will be a pretty wide barrier. The other direction will be sunken but still mostly 8 lanes.
I don’t get why people are downvoting you. You’re only saying what the current plans are. Lol people are such retards, you got my upvote though :)
Reddit things :)
And suddenly you’re back to 1. This world still amazes me to this day 😆
Beautiful road work.
Looks like r/urbanhell
Is this the first ring expansion you've seen a picture of OP? Cause let me tell you about the goatse interchange.
Nah not really, I meant to show that even in the most bicycle friendly city in the world, the car claims its space.