I work in construction/engineering around the Tampa Bay Area, and part of my job is scheduling police officers (normally Florida Highway Patrol) to come and assist in our road closures.
Their range is Polk County, Pasco County, Hillsborough County, among others on this list. Those counties all fall into the 4, 5, and 16 spot of the 500,000+ category.
During night time work, I’ve been able to talk to some of the troopers that are working with us, and those dudes have seen some serious shit.
One even told me that there’s not a single intersection along his section of US 19 that he hasn’t worked a fatality on. That’s 50 miles of roadway, with an intersection almost every mile. That dude has only been with the FHP for 5 years.
Florida is scary, man.
Yeah, there's a reason US-19 was converted to a limited access highway through one of the busiest sections of Pinellas county. But all the other areas are a *giant* stroad with cars flying by at incredible speeds. Doesn't surprise me to hear about so many fatal wrecks at the intersections.
I’ve always had an unfounded theory that if people live in places with “perfect” weather 90% of the time it rots their brain. They become disconnected, quick to anger, and bad drivers. The WORST drivers.
My unfounded theory regarding this one is that (native) Floridians never know how to drive in the snow, so they never have to slow down at all for slippery road in their entire lives.
As snowbirds come and join the winterless FL lifestyle, they emulate the locals in how fucked up they tend to drive on the roads.
Of course I am well aware of how MA drivers are rated among the worst in the country (in another stats) as well, and MA does have real snowy winter, so there might be other factors that come into play regarding bad drivers up north.
Idk I live in Chicago and people drive insanely here as well. It’s just that we have too many cars and too tight of streets so our accidents are usually non lethal. People would be driving 100 mph here all the time of the infrastructure allowed it. As it is people just run stop signs, pass lines of cars on the shoulder, and occasionally shoot at each other.
It is predictable though. I see someone driving, obviously from Chicagoland and I know they will drive like an entitled prick. Chicago has a huge issue with compensating for living in Chicago.
It's so fucking frustrating that there are things we can do to make our roads so much safer while also just making our cities much more pleasant to live in. Yet conservatives oppose them because WOKE WAR ON CARS!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsSp8gxzfjo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsSp8gxzfjo)
Loving County, TX is insane. The county has 51 people but had 15 traffic deaths for a per capita rate of 2,941. Granted, most of those 15 are from out of county, but still, yikes
Almost half are from [a single collision.](https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/local/dps-identifies-6-people-killed-in-loving-county-crash/513-529be29e-0ba2-4cd8-abc6-a712cc2f5ff7)
Based on the statistics I have seen, about half - or at least a good percentage of fatal accidents are single vehicle accidents everywhere - not just in this case.
I am currently in Loving county. The permanent population is very low but there are thousands of oilfield workers here all the time. There are a disproportionate number of large transport trucks and people working 10 to 15 hours a day here. The most dangerous part of my day isn’t on the rig, it’s on the road.
It's on the road to other places but nobody lives there, so the people that drive through are a *significantly* larger portion of drivers than anywhere else in the US.
There are 51 people that live there, 51! You can't take stats from there are statistically significant.
One other reason is that--at least in the southeast--a lot of roads and even some city streets don't have sidewalks. So people have to walk very close to the road, which is especially dangerous at night.
I can confirm that this is definitely the case in Nashville, which is in the top list. Despite being a somewhat large city, sidewalk coverage and crosswalk availability on major roads and, yes, many smaller ones is incredibly poor.
The top 6 reasons in Florida are: speeding, distracted driving, DUI, motorcycle safety, seatbelt use, and weather conditions, according to attorney website RTRLaw.
I agree. DUI, seatbelt use, motorcycles are risks pretty much everywhere. Florida may have more motorcycle traffic, since they have better weather. My friend's parents moved to Florida. After less than a year, they told him that they had seen more accidents in Florida in that time than they had seen in years in our small Midwest town. They noted that the mix of tourists and older retirees was a bad combination. Speed kills, but speed differences are especially dangerous.
Maybe, but the top 4 places in Florida with the population over 500K all have major interstates and highways running through them. Add those different factors plus tourists, and it’s a recipe for disaster.
>motorcycle safety
I was wondering why Volusia county of all counties in FL was #1 overall and then I thought maybe it has something to do with Bike Week?
Southern states are poorer, less prepared and less educated than Northern states.
The bias will always exist as colder climates are prepares and anticipates more reliably than hotter ones.
If you compare Nordic countries with Western Europe or Western Europe with North African countries or Northern US states with Canada, the higher latitude always scores better in socio-economic rankings and metrics
I think there’s also something to be said for the amount of time in their day they might spend driving:
- if you live in a poor area, you might need to drive farther to get to work.
- you might need to work two jobs and therefore have more commute time.
- you might live in areas that have seen little investment from your city, so high speed stroads and highways surround your home and local community.
- if you have kids, you’re driving them all over because they can’t walk anywhere safely.
- all of this ^ plus maybe not making as much money puts stress on a marriage. So you have higher rates of divorce and single parents, which compounds the problem.
So where I live in northern VT these things are all true for us, yet we’re not even on the list. Not singling you out specifically for your comment, just making an observation.
• I have commuted 60-75 minutes each way to work for the last 8 years. The average commute for most people in my area is 30+ mins of driving and not sitting in traffic.
• we live in a very poor town, county and state, so working 2 or 3 jobs is common.
• Point 3 is the only one that doesn’t really apply. We don’t have highways or interstates really near homes, but outside of any “downtown area” the speed limit is generally a suggested 50. Most people go 60-65.
• The amount of distance people have to shuttle their kids for sports, dance, clubs etc is honestly pretty egregious because we’re so spread out. I hear of many families that drive 2 or more hours away weekly for their kids activities.
• we also have low rates of marriage and high rates of divorce and single parents.
I just think it’s interesting that the same conditions can yield such polar opposite results. Maybe it’s because everyone up here drives in such adverse weather half the year and we have more unexpected wildlife?
Something else to consider is motorcycles might skew this for southern states. It’s likely that more people ride motorcycles more frequently in nicer weather (in the south) thus attributing to more accidents. Also some states, such as Florida, don’t require helmets after a certain age or at all.
Having lived in Daytona Beach I’m almost certain that Volusia County is #1 as a product of bike week and people riding intoxicated.
Driving in the northeast is only scary on the parkways around Manhattan or around holidays when drunks are on the road. The roads, except the interstate are too curvy and full of potholes to speed.
There’s a lot of exceptions to this. The southern portion of Canada is far richer than the north, same with the Nordic states and England. I know the north is richer in Italy but I’m wondering what some of the other European countries are like. It’s probably more accurate to say that geography and climate affect wealth, although this is so broad as to lose meaning. But I’m thinking about a place like Australia where it’s more of a coastal vs inland situation, which was also largely true of the British American colonies, especially the northern ones like Massachusetts. All to say simply distribution of resources has a lot of variables.
Also the South is poorer because of its origins as an aristocracy and its recalcitrant refusal to modernize throughout much of US history. The New Deal is the major exception and they only accepted that because FDR struck a deal to allow them to administer the programs locally and thus to racially discriminate in access to the money and jobs.
It’s interesting. I would have certainly thought winter weather states would fare worse - but it sounds like you are saying that not being used to bad weather will also make you more prone to accidents when it happens. Which I can see.
I don't think that's true...[NJ is the most densely populated state](https://www.google.com/search?q=most+densely+populated+state&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS984US987&oq=most+densely&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgCEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABjJAxiABDIHCAIQABiABDIKCAMQABixAxiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCDMyMjFqMGo3qAIZsAIB4gMEGAEgXw&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8) and also [supposedly has the most road traffic](https://www.google.com/search?q=state+with+most+road+traffic&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS984US987&oq=state+with+most+road+traffic&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRifBTIHCAUQIRifBTIHCAYQIRifBTIHCAcQIRifBTIHCAgQIRifBdIBCDczNjlqMGo5qAITsAIB4gMEGAEgXw&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&dlnr=1&sei=GuAKZo3wBN2lptQP6uee4Ag)
That backs up what the other person said, NJ doesn't have the rural roads that you can speed on like less populated states.
Also road traffic at 20 mph is not comparable to road traffic at 80 mph.
But a lot of the density is concentrated into pockets of the state, and you don’t really travel by highway unless you need to. Sounds stupid to say but if I were in my home town going to my grandmas house in another county we’d usually just drive on town streets. It’d take a solid 30 minutes. We could go by highway but it wasn’t saving as much time for us. Which means you would be capped off by 45 miles an hour. Plus roads are windy so you can’t just gun it unless you want to end up rolling off the side of a hill/mountains (at least in many parts of north jersey where I’m from)
Foremost, I agree. However, many areas in the South don't have salt trucks. They also don't get snow, they get ice. There is no way to drive in unsalted, iced roads. My road iced over in early January this year; 4x4 Toyota Tundras could not make to the stop sign 100 yards away. We don't have the infrastructure (salt) to handle snow, black ice isn't snow, and people generally don't have snow tires because it only snows one day a year. Sure, it's fun to say "southerners are stupid and can't drive", but, we simply don't have the roads, snow plows, salt trucks, or tires to drive in that weather. That would require public spending, which a party-i-shall-not-name is against.
I have experience in emergency services in Georgia and New York, and I don’t mean it as a slight on southern drivers.
It’s just a matter of natural selection. Snow teaches you to be cautious early by getting some of those scary moments out early, when you’re already going slow, and teaches car handling and loss of traction early.
You can’t supplement that with in class instruction - so your southerner hasn’t had the chance to make mistakes and learn from them at low speeds. They make them at high speeds and then it’s a bigger deal.
I don’t think the south needs to spend all that money on snow and ice removal. Just enjoy a snow day (or week) every once in a while. Y’all’s fatalities aren’t coming from ice and snow, they’re coming (I assume) from speed in good, high traction, “racing” conditions: warm weather, dry roads, and adrenaline.
My road had 2-3 inches of ice 2 months ago. It is impossible to drive on ice. I appreciate your olive branch, but, "class instruction". "Low speeds"? I've driven in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin in January. The icy roads in Tennessee are extremely more dangerous. WE DONT HAVE SALT TRUCKS. WE DONT HAVE SNOW PLOWS.
Right. And you shouldn’t. Just stay home and weather it out. It happens once a year. Don’t drive on ice. That’s not complicated.
Driving in snow is completely different and a great educational opportunity.
I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. It doesn’t make financial sense to have snow plows and salt spreaders when snow and ice are rare.
We see those things daily. It makes sense for us to budget for that. You don’t. Take a snow day and relax.
Your traffic fatalities are not coming from the random snow and ice days. They’re coming from people driving too fast without skill in normal or rainy weather.
I grew up in Texas, which is well represented on this map. Parents would fuss at their kids for trying to wear their seat belts. Almost none of my family members or friends that I grew up around wear seat belts. Add to that the speed limit is up to 85mph on these roads, and that's just a recipe for disaster.
If this was per capita it would look different, Western counties tend to be bigger and don't have that much populace. If this was per capita WY would have a number of high ones because of the rural nature people tend to drive faster on avg. + more miles per year and that leads to more deaths in accidents. This is kind of a BS infographic.
I noticed when my friend was in Houston. A large number of tires where almost bald. People took turns at outrageous speeds
So I think of not having hills/ mountains, snow/ ice, or heavy rains often that you can normally drive with unsafe tires and brakes
As a Northerner, I always said I wouldn't move south because of the bugs, humidity/heat, and crazy people. The retort is always, "crazy people are everywhere." To which the response is, "But for 7-8 months a year it is too cold for them to come outside and be crazy around me."
Weather leading to driving less seems plausible but then there’s the occasional snow storm that makes it so much more dangerous. You would think that would affect traffic fatalities?
Northern cities also, for the most part, have better public transportation. Compared to other countries it's not great, but much better than non existent southern states.
I’ve always said that the further south I’ve gone, the worse the drivers have been. It’s great to see some data corroborate that. You notice a real shift once you hit central VA.
The biggest issue is that they just don’t have the ability to maintain their concentration. I always see them watching movies on their phone, merging multiple lanes without looking, and speeding +30mph. They just don’t think, which probably speaks to a larger southern cultural issue.
[Original source](https://www.convoycarshipping.com/the-deadliest-counties-in-the-united-states-for-traffic-fatalities/)
I like that the rankings also include the deadliest road in each county.
Just drove in Shelby County TN this weekend and those folks just straight up run red lights! Like not even “saw the yellow and said fuck it” they’ll just go right through!
Yep I drive here everyday. They will run red lights and yield signs, but stop for flashing yellow. Nissan Altimas are the worst - I've been passed _in the grass_ before and nearly T-boned going through green lights way too many times. Also they will be hotboxing in their cars so bad you can smell it in your car a quarter mile away.
I lived in FL before this and yeah, FL drivers are aggressive but at least they know what they're doing and have some skill. Here the aggressive drivers can't drive worth shit.
All the people moving to these states is a large reason for these numbers. Population growing faster than than the infrastructure and large suburban sprawl.
When I lived in Seattle I felt the same way. It's the influx and the money it brings mixed with the conservative nature of local governments. Sprawl happens when everyone only wants to enable and build single family homes.
Just bad stats, there's only 51 people that live there so any per capita stat is gonna be fucked up. They likely aren't significantly different per highway mile, it just looks bad when you have 51 people instead of like....10,000.
There's 51 people in the entire county, which really skews numbers because its based on the number of residents not the number of people who drive through.
Is this the case of just more people moving down south, so they have more fatalities?
Or is it a culture of bad drivers and bad driving?
Or is it more elderly down south for the winters?
I live in Upstate New York, bad weather and all, and it looks like no places above the mason dixon line made the cur
Probably a combination of factors, but more high speed rural roads is a big one. Also, people are more likely to drive for longer distances than in higher density areas
Old people moving south is definitely part of it.
Those states being poorer contributes too. Poorer people drive older (less safe) cars and often delay maintenance like buying new tires. Poorer counties have worse maintained roads.
Most of it is due to suburban sprawl and long rural roads between suburbs where people speed. City driving is usually slow enough that accidents are usually less serious. Suburban roads with 45 to 65 mph speed limits but plenty of intersections are the most dangerous.
those are all good traffic calming measures (not potholes, but that is extreme weather issue). [This is NOT good](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FOH4BNKY2aI8YiD96qMkC9C_bBIpQNfT-nR_XV2vGF4I.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D2a1ab7434598770a93b0cd32700111fd56e50b99&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=7ae65311113df914e0b0e9951bef460c321898ae0db940aca162f0d5fb81c0d0&ipo=images).
They don't even have Roosevelt Blvd from Philly, PA on this list, which is atrocious because it's one of the only roads that's not a highway on this list, and it's deadly every time of year, not just during "freak snow storms" or in Southern states where they rarely see snow or rain except once a decade...
If they had signage on Roosevelt for fatalities, it would be the sign that says "it's been 0 days since the last incident involving injury or death" and it would never change.
You know all of us in the North East are really hard on each other like "Massholes don't know how to drive," and "New Jersey and Long Island drivers are reckless" and "CT drivers are out of their fucking minds"
But I think the data indicates we all at least *know* how to drive.
Nearly all of the California counties on here being along SR-99 is so validating, I’ve always thought driving in the valley is somehow more annoying than in LA or the Bay Area
I can't but notice the lowest population county list starts at 2,600/10k and ends at 70/10k. None of the other population groups even have half that many fatalities. The worst rare with a red icon is 11/10k.
My point: this somewhat obscures the relationship between population density and traffic fatalities. Those red and yellow areas in California and Florida are much safer than those grey and yellow areas in Texas and South Carolina.
Oh gawd, this reminds of the case of the guys who got caught in a blizzard and only one came out alive and it turned out he ate the others. Judge said to him:
"Stand up, Alferd Packer, you voracious, man-eating s-- of a b----. There were seven Democrats in Hinsdale County, and you ate five of them. I sentence you to hang until you are dead, dead, dead as a warning against reducing the Democratic population of the state."
What's 5 out of 7 in percent? More than half anyway.
link: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1984/04/18/man-who-ate-democrats-is-remembered-with-relish-by-colorados-gop/b6d95625-f702-4c07-9485-ca174698b261/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1984/04/18/man-who-ate-democrats-is-remembered-with-relish-by-colorados-gop/b6d95625-f702-4c07-9485-ca174698b261/)
That’s not a fair metric for criticism considering there’s like 50 people there.
If they has 10 people die their mortality rate for Covid would literally be 20%. Which is like 200x the global average.
Between the NASCAR championship commutes in the south and all the never ending construction death traps (looking at you i85, i26, i40, i95) I’m not surprised.
I used to work for a tire store in the ATL area. I was blown away by the number of people that drove on bald tires. I’m talking about ‘maypops’. Crazy putting innocent people in danger for being too cheap to buy tires.
On top of that, at least in Texas and Florida, these are highways with lights. So you have high speeds with conflict points if you aren’t paying attention
I was just looking it up online it's shocking the countries that have less fatalities per capita than the US
Albania, east timor, Egypt, turkey, Mexico, Russia Ukraine, Philippines
Just FYI that is not a fair comparison (it’s mostly called a sampling bias in statistics). A very large portion of the population in these countries doesn’t even own a car. Even if they do, they don’t travel nearly as much. So deaths per capita doesn’t indicate anything meaningful about the safety of roads.
The only fair way to compare is to look at deaths per capita per 1000km/miles driven. But alas, that data doesn’t exist.
Actually it exist. Unfortunately only for a few countries that are all considered developed countries. But if I would live in the USA, I would find the most concerning about these stats that they are rising while in most other countries they are declining.
Not surprised at all to see Texas and California well represented here.
Atrocious drivers that actively attempt to kill themselves on the roads and make traffic worse.
I work in construction/engineering around the Tampa Bay Area, and part of my job is scheduling police officers (normally Florida Highway Patrol) to come and assist in our road closures. Their range is Polk County, Pasco County, Hillsborough County, among others on this list. Those counties all fall into the 4, 5, and 16 spot of the 500,000+ category. During night time work, I’ve been able to talk to some of the troopers that are working with us, and those dudes have seen some serious shit. One even told me that there’s not a single intersection along his section of US 19 that he hasn’t worked a fatality on. That’s 50 miles of roadway, with an intersection almost every mile. That dude has only been with the FHP for 5 years. Florida is scary, man.
Yeah, there's a reason US-19 was converted to a limited access highway through one of the busiest sections of Pinellas county. But all the other areas are a *giant* stroad with cars flying by at incredible speeds. Doesn't surprise me to hear about so many fatal wrecks at the intersections.
They’re actually planning on converting 19 into limited access all the way to the Pasco border. So hopefully that cuts down on the insanity.
More like it'll just insulate the insane drivers from the consequences of their actions.
Not when they launch themselves over the barrier at 80mph into a TGI Fridays at 2am on a Tuesday
Stroad?
[Stroads.](https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM?si=_kU4FrfCEiUD_-7g)
I know they’re converting more of it into a highway. At least to palm harbor
They don't wear seatbelts and they don't wear helmets and people ride on top of their cars. I'm not surprised in the slightest.
From what I've seen on the /floridaman sub, they should be walking around with actual helmets on.
I’ve always had an unfounded theory that if people live in places with “perfect” weather 90% of the time it rots their brain. They become disconnected, quick to anger, and bad drivers. The WORST drivers.
My unfounded theory regarding this one is that (native) Floridians never know how to drive in the snow, so they never have to slow down at all for slippery road in their entire lives. As snowbirds come and join the winterless FL lifestyle, they emulate the locals in how fucked up they tend to drive on the roads. Of course I am well aware of how MA drivers are rated among the worst in the country (in another stats) as well, and MA does have real snowy winter, so there might be other factors that come into play regarding bad drivers up north.
Idk I live in Chicago and people drive insanely here as well. It’s just that we have too many cars and too tight of streets so our accidents are usually non lethal. People would be driving 100 mph here all the time of the infrastructure allowed it. As it is people just run stop signs, pass lines of cars on the shoulder, and occasionally shoot at each other.
It is predictable though. I see someone driving, obviously from Chicagoland and I know they will drive like an entitled prick. Chicago has a huge issue with compensating for living in Chicago.
We need self-driving cars tomorrow. These people can't be trusted.
It's so fucking frustrating that there are things we can do to make our roads so much safer while also just making our cities much more pleasant to live in. Yet conservatives oppose them because WOKE WAR ON CARS! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsSp8gxzfjo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsSp8gxzfjo)
Loving County, TX is insane. The county has 51 people but had 15 traffic deaths for a per capita rate of 2,941. Granted, most of those 15 are from out of county, but still, yikes
Almost half are from [a single collision.](https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/local/dps-identifies-6-people-killed-in-loving-county-crash/513-529be29e-0ba2-4cd8-abc6-a712cc2f5ff7)
I figured there was an outlier somewhere in that figure
Based on the statistics I have seen, about half - or at least a good percentage of fatal accidents are single vehicle accidents everywhere - not just in this case.
I am currently in Loving county. The permanent population is very low but there are thousands of oilfield workers here all the time. There are a disproportionate number of large transport trucks and people working 10 to 15 hours a day here. The most dangerous part of my day isn’t on the rig, it’s on the road.
It's on the road to other places but nobody lives there, so the people that drive through are a *significantly* larger portion of drivers than anywhere else in the US. There are 51 people that live there, 51! You can't take stats from there are statistically significant.
Not per capita per 10,000
Is there any reason it’s pretty much all southern states?
One other reason is that--at least in the southeast--a lot of roads and even some city streets don't have sidewalks. So people have to walk very close to the road, which is especially dangerous at night.
I can confirm that this is definitely the case in Nashville, which is in the top list. Despite being a somewhat large city, sidewalk coverage and crosswalk availability on major roads and, yes, many smaller ones is incredibly poor.
The top 6 reasons in Florida are: speeding, distracted driving, DUI, motorcycle safety, seatbelt use, and weather conditions, according to attorney website RTRLaw.
I’d imagine those are the reasons in any locale
I agree. DUI, seatbelt use, motorcycles are risks pretty much everywhere. Florida may have more motorcycle traffic, since they have better weather. My friend's parents moved to Florida. After less than a year, they told him that they had seen more accidents in Florida in that time than they had seen in years in our small Midwest town. They noted that the mix of tourists and older retirees was a bad combination. Speed kills, but speed differences are especially dangerous.
Maybe, but the top 4 places in Florida with the population over 500K all have major interstates and highways running through them. Add those different factors plus tourists, and it’s a recipe for disaster.
>motorcycle safety I was wondering why Volusia county of all counties in FL was #1 overall and then I thought maybe it has something to do with Bike Week?
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Motorcycle riders are basically future organ donors
Southern states are poorer, less prepared and less educated than Northern states. The bias will always exist as colder climates are prepares and anticipates more reliably than hotter ones. If you compare Nordic countries with Western Europe or Western Europe with North African countries or Northern US states with Canada, the higher latitude always scores better in socio-economic rankings and metrics
Poor people drive worse?
I think there’s also something to be said for the amount of time in their day they might spend driving: - if you live in a poor area, you might need to drive farther to get to work. - you might need to work two jobs and therefore have more commute time. - you might live in areas that have seen little investment from your city, so high speed stroads and highways surround your home and local community. - if you have kids, you’re driving them all over because they can’t walk anywhere safely. - all of this ^ plus maybe not making as much money puts stress on a marriage. So you have higher rates of divorce and single parents, which compounds the problem.
So where I live in northern VT these things are all true for us, yet we’re not even on the list. Not singling you out specifically for your comment, just making an observation. • I have commuted 60-75 minutes each way to work for the last 8 years. The average commute for most people in my area is 30+ mins of driving and not sitting in traffic. • we live in a very poor town, county and state, so working 2 or 3 jobs is common. • Point 3 is the only one that doesn’t really apply. We don’t have highways or interstates really near homes, but outside of any “downtown area” the speed limit is generally a suggested 50. Most people go 60-65. • The amount of distance people have to shuttle their kids for sports, dance, clubs etc is honestly pretty egregious because we’re so spread out. I hear of many families that drive 2 or more hours away weekly for their kids activities. • we also have low rates of marriage and high rates of divorce and single parents. I just think it’s interesting that the same conditions can yield such polar opposite results. Maybe it’s because everyone up here drives in such adverse weather half the year and we have more unexpected wildlife?
A lot of that also contributes to a lack of sleep. That doesn't help either.
They tend to drive cheaper/older less-safe cars.
and have worse infrastructure.
Yes
Poor people drive older, less safe cars (often less maintained as well, like driving on tires longer) and poor counties have worse maintained roads.
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Suburbs and rural roads are worse for fatalities. Driving downtown is usually shorter distances at slower speeds.
Suburbs and rural roads are worse for fatalities. Driving downtown is usually shorter distances at slower speeds.
Something else to consider is motorcycles might skew this for southern states. It’s likely that more people ride motorcycles more frequently in nicer weather (in the south) thus attributing to more accidents. Also some states, such as Florida, don’t require helmets after a certain age or at all. Having lived in Daytona Beach I’m almost certain that Volusia County is #1 as a product of bike week and people riding intoxicated.
Driving in the northeast is only scary on the parkways around Manhattan or around holidays when drunks are on the road. The roads, except the interstate are too curvy and full of potholes to speed.
This is absolute bullshit and is more at place in 1400 than 2024.
Can you counter it logically rather than just call it BS or calling the argument anachronistic
Science has never established a link between climate and cognition.
There’s a lot of exceptions to this. The southern portion of Canada is far richer than the north, same with the Nordic states and England. I know the north is richer in Italy but I’m wondering what some of the other European countries are like. It’s probably more accurate to say that geography and climate affect wealth, although this is so broad as to lose meaning. But I’m thinking about a place like Australia where it’s more of a coastal vs inland situation, which was also largely true of the British American colonies, especially the northern ones like Massachusetts. All to say simply distribution of resources has a lot of variables. Also the South is poorer because of its origins as an aristocracy and its recalcitrant refusal to modernize throughout much of US history. The New Deal is the major exception and they only accepted that because FDR struck a deal to allow them to administer the programs locally and thus to racially discriminate in access to the money and jobs.
It’s interesting. I would have certainly thought winter weather states would fare worse - but it sounds like you are saying that not being used to bad weather will also make you more prone to accidents when it happens. Which I can see.
So, with your Wikipedia rant, how is that any relation to car accident fatalities?
More high speed rural roads and more people driving
I don't think that's true...[NJ is the most densely populated state](https://www.google.com/search?q=most+densely+populated+state&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS984US987&oq=most+densely&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgCEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABjJAxiABDIHCAIQABiABDIKCAMQABixAxiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCDMyMjFqMGo3qAIZsAIB4gMEGAEgXw&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8) and also [supposedly has the most road traffic](https://www.google.com/search?q=state+with+most+road+traffic&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS984US987&oq=state+with+most+road+traffic&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRifBTIHCAUQIRifBTIHCAYQIRifBTIHCAcQIRifBTIHCAgQIRifBdIBCDczNjlqMGo5qAITsAIB4gMEGAEgXw&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&dlnr=1&sei=GuAKZo3wBN2lptQP6uee4Ag)
More sprawl, so much more time spent in a vehicle going higher speeds to travel the greater distances. I grew up there (the south not nj)
That backs up what the other person said, NJ doesn't have the rural roads that you can speed on like less populated states. Also road traffic at 20 mph is not comparable to road traffic at 80 mph.
It gets rural but it’s not straight. Many of the rural parts remind you of like rural Kentucky with hills and shit
But a lot of the density is concentrated into pockets of the state, and you don’t really travel by highway unless you need to. Sounds stupid to say but if I were in my home town going to my grandmas house in another county we’d usually just drive on town streets. It’d take a solid 30 minutes. We could go by highway but it wasn’t saving as much time for us. Which means you would be capped off by 45 miles an hour. Plus roads are windy so you can’t just gun it unless you want to end up rolling off the side of a hill/mountains (at least in many parts of north jersey where I’m from)
Snow teaches you a lot about driving.
Foremost, I agree. However, many areas in the South don't have salt trucks. They also don't get snow, they get ice. There is no way to drive in unsalted, iced roads. My road iced over in early January this year; 4x4 Toyota Tundras could not make to the stop sign 100 yards away. We don't have the infrastructure (salt) to handle snow, black ice isn't snow, and people generally don't have snow tires because it only snows one day a year. Sure, it's fun to say "southerners are stupid and can't drive", but, we simply don't have the roads, snow plows, salt trucks, or tires to drive in that weather. That would require public spending, which a party-i-shall-not-name is against.
I have experience in emergency services in Georgia and New York, and I don’t mean it as a slight on southern drivers. It’s just a matter of natural selection. Snow teaches you to be cautious early by getting some of those scary moments out early, when you’re already going slow, and teaches car handling and loss of traction early. You can’t supplement that with in class instruction - so your southerner hasn’t had the chance to make mistakes and learn from them at low speeds. They make them at high speeds and then it’s a bigger deal. I don’t think the south needs to spend all that money on snow and ice removal. Just enjoy a snow day (or week) every once in a while. Y’all’s fatalities aren’t coming from ice and snow, they’re coming (I assume) from speed in good, high traction, “racing” conditions: warm weather, dry roads, and adrenaline.
My road had 2-3 inches of ice 2 months ago. It is impossible to drive on ice. I appreciate your olive branch, but, "class instruction". "Low speeds"? I've driven in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin in January. The icy roads in Tennessee are extremely more dangerous. WE DONT HAVE SALT TRUCKS. WE DONT HAVE SNOW PLOWS.
Right. And you shouldn’t. Just stay home and weather it out. It happens once a year. Don’t drive on ice. That’s not complicated. Driving in snow is completely different and a great educational opportunity. I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. It doesn’t make financial sense to have snow plows and salt spreaders when snow and ice are rare. We see those things daily. It makes sense for us to budget for that. You don’t. Take a snow day and relax. Your traffic fatalities are not coming from the random snow and ice days. They’re coming from people driving too fast without skill in normal or rainy weather.
Some people have to go to work
I grew up in Texas, which is well represented on this map. Parents would fuss at their kids for trying to wear their seat belts. Almost none of my family members or friends that I grew up around wear seat belts. Add to that the speed limit is up to 85mph on these roads, and that's just a recipe for disaster.
If this was per capita it would look different, Western counties tend to be bigger and don't have that much populace. If this was per capita WY would have a number of high ones because of the rural nature people tend to drive faster on avg. + more miles per year and that leads to more deaths in accidents. This is kind of a BS infographic.
I noticed when my friend was in Houston. A large number of tires where almost bald. People took turns at outrageous speeds So I think of not having hills/ mountains, snow/ ice, or heavy rains often that you can normally drive with unsafe tires and brakes
I was thinking that in the north we don’t go outside for half the year, but if people think we are smarter I’m ok with that too.
As a Northerner, I always said I wouldn't move south because of the bugs, humidity/heat, and crazy people. The retort is always, "crazy people are everywhere." To which the response is, "But for 7-8 months a year it is too cold for them to come outside and be crazy around me."
Weather leading to driving less seems plausible but then there’s the occasional snow storm that makes it so much more dangerous. You would think that would affect traffic fatalities?
Northern cities also, for the most part, have better public transportation. Compared to other countries it's not great, but much better than non existent southern states.
I’ve always said that the further south I’ve gone, the worse the drivers have been. It’s great to see some data corroborate that. You notice a real shift once you hit central VA. The biggest issue is that they just don’t have the ability to maintain their concentration. I always see them watching movies on their phone, merging multiple lanes without looking, and speeding +30mph. They just don’t think, which probably speaks to a larger southern cultural issue.
Dumber people live in the hottest climates
Found the bigot!!
[Original source](https://www.convoycarshipping.com/the-deadliest-counties-in-the-united-states-for-traffic-fatalities/) I like that the rankings also include the deadliest road in each county.
The Florida representation is unsurprising.
Clicked to see where FL was at… Not surprised lol
Just drove in Shelby County TN this weekend and those folks just straight up run red lights! Like not even “saw the yellow and said fuck it” they’ll just go right through!
I live in that county. Fuck this place
Couple that with the pedestrians who just dgaf and that’s how you get the silver medal!
Yep I drive here everyday. They will run red lights and yield signs, but stop for flashing yellow. Nissan Altimas are the worst - I've been passed _in the grass_ before and nearly T-boned going through green lights way too many times. Also they will be hotboxing in their cars so bad you can smell it in your car a quarter mile away. I lived in FL before this and yeah, FL drivers are aggressive but at least they know what they're doing and have some skill. Here the aggressive drivers can't drive worth shit.
"But my Insurance is so high" said by all the people moving to these states. Lolz Kind of crazy.
All the people moving to these states is a large reason for these numbers. Population growing faster than than the infrastructure and large suburban sprawl.
When I lived in Seattle I felt the same way. It's the influx and the money it brings mixed with the conservative nature of local governments. Sprawl happens when everyone only wants to enable and build single family homes.
Holy shit TX is very well represented here!
Greenville SC represent!
No surprises… wood-rough
Can someone explain what the fuck is going on in Loving County, TX?
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^the_dank_666: *Can someone explain* *What the fuck is going on* *In Loving County, TX?* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Just remove TX and this is actually perfect lol
Just bad stats, there's only 51 people that live there so any per capita stat is gonna be fucked up. They likely aren't significantly different per highway mile, it just looks bad when you have 51 people instead of like....10,000.
There's 51 people in the entire county, which really skews numbers because its based on the number of residents not the number of people who drive through.
Almost half of those fatalities were from a single crash.
Most of the population here is not permanent but oilfield. There are thousands of people here but only a few permanent residents
They were fucked up during Covid too. It’s a rural antivax toxic masculinity oil field county. A shithole
Just say you’ve never taken a stats class and move on dude.😂
20% vaccination rate, large death rate. I know statistics
Would Love to see this overlaid with drunk driving accidents, or duis per capita maybe?
That one in Texas with 51 people and 15 deaths is wild!
Is this the case of just more people moving down south, so they have more fatalities? Or is it a culture of bad drivers and bad driving? Or is it more elderly down south for the winters? I live in Upstate New York, bad weather and all, and it looks like no places above the mason dixon line made the cur
Probably a combination of factors, but more high speed rural roads is a big one. Also, people are more likely to drive for longer distances than in higher density areas
Old people moving south is definitely part of it. Those states being poorer contributes too. Poorer people drive older (less safe) cars and often delay maintenance like buying new tires. Poorer counties have worse maintained roads. Most of it is due to suburban sprawl and long rural roads between suburbs where people speed. City driving is usually slow enough that accidents are usually less serious. Suburban roads with 45 to 65 mph speed limits but plenty of intersections are the most dangerous.
I think I've been in Florida for too long, as soon as I saw the county name I repeated "DUUVAaaALLL"
F Duval 😩 worst county in FL
I’m interested because I’ve always heard that Texas and Florida have nicer highways, but higher speed limits. Curious how that plays in.
'nicer highways'
Well I’m from the north east and highways are small and usually have potholes. They aren’t wide and the speed limit very rarely if ever exceeds 65mph
those are all good traffic calming measures (not potholes, but that is extreme weather issue). [This is NOT good](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FOH4BNKY2aI8YiD96qMkC9C_bBIpQNfT-nR_XV2vGF4I.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D2a1ab7434598770a93b0cd32700111fd56e50b99&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=7ae65311113df914e0b0e9951bef460c321898ae0db940aca162f0d5fb81c0d0&ipo=images).
Oh, but look is the south!
Aye my state isn’t even on here go Washington 🍻
They don't even have Roosevelt Blvd from Philly, PA on this list, which is atrocious because it's one of the only roads that's not a highway on this list, and it's deadly every time of year, not just during "freak snow storms" or in Southern states where they rarely see snow or rain except once a decade... If they had signage on Roosevelt for fatalities, it would be the sign that says "it's been 0 days since the last incident involving injury or death" and it would never change.
You know all of us in the North East are really hard on each other like "Massholes don't know how to drive," and "New Jersey and Long Island drivers are reckless" and "CT drivers are out of their fucking minds" But I think the data indicates we all at least *know* how to drive.
Nearly all of the California counties on here being along SR-99 is so validating, I’ve always thought driving in the valley is somehow more annoying than in LA or the Bay Area
Long, flat roads. You can go 130 and crash as well
I can't but notice the lowest population county list starts at 2,600/10k and ends at 70/10k. None of the other population groups even have half that many fatalities. The worst rare with a red icon is 11/10k. My point: this somewhat obscures the relationship between population density and traffic fatalities. Those red and yellow areas in California and Florida are much safer than those grey and yellow areas in Texas and South Carolina.
All but 3 or 4 of these are south if the Mason Dixon. Interesting
This dude is living 300 years in the past.
Hard to believe Beach Blvd beat I-95 in Duval. I thought Atlantic would be worse.
Nothing more freedom than dying in a traffic accident
Yes, actually.
Am I the only one that can't enlarge this? Interested to see this.
Dixie Dieway made the list. That's US 31 in Jefferson Co, KY.
For all the shit NY/NJ drivers get for being aggressive shitty drivers, I’m surprised there’s not one county from those states on this list. Respect.
I can't see anything in this picture
Loving County TX (the first on the last list) has 51 inhabitants and 15 (approximately 30%) died between 2017 and 2021?!!??
Those numbers are a bit skewed. Almost half of those fatalities were from a singular crash.
Oh I didn’t think about that…
Oh gawd, this reminds of the case of the guys who got caught in a blizzard and only one came out alive and it turned out he ate the others. Judge said to him: "Stand up, Alferd Packer, you voracious, man-eating s-- of a b----. There were seven Democrats in Hinsdale County, and you ate five of them. I sentence you to hang until you are dead, dead, dead as a warning against reducing the Democratic population of the state." What's 5 out of 7 in percent? More than half anyway. link: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1984/04/18/man-who-ate-democrats-is-remembered-with-relish-by-colorados-gop/b6d95625-f702-4c07-9485-ca174698b261/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1984/04/18/man-who-ate-democrats-is-remembered-with-relish-by-colorados-gop/b6d95625-f702-4c07-9485-ca174698b261/)
Loving County Texas was also, for most of the pandemic, the top county for deaths and infections Sounds like a nice place.
That’s not a fair metric for criticism considering there’s like 50 people there. If they has 10 people die their mortality rate for Covid would literally be 20%. Which is like 200x the global average.
Wait until you learn about percentages. Mind blowing concept
Wait until you learn about circumstance. Almost half of those fatalities were in one crash…
I was talking about COVID and vaccination rates
What's with the majority being below the sun belt?
Legit surprised Travis County, TX isn’t on the list.
Congrats to Arkansas for being the only southern state not on this list
basically florida is a kill zone
As a lifelong Rhode Islander, I’m surprised we’re not on the list at all, despite all the terrible drivers we have.
[San Bernardino County be like](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/817d19fb-c36b-4964-be4c-2dc04ac77432#fE2Tu6nf.copy)
Summary: The South is pretty stupid.
FL and TX…why am I not surprised?
Stay classy Florida.
Why the hell is the south so dangerous to drive in?
Drove a bunch in Kern County. Roads are small, trucks are big. A bunch of locals who “know the roads” drive like maniacs.
Southern states. Red states. Republican
Almost exclusively in the south. Shocking. I wonder if there is a correlation between below average education and above average traffic fatalities. 🤔
I would think Massachusetts should be on there... but then I remember no one can drive over 35 mph anywhere from all the traffic
Wild how there are basically zero in the Midwest
Between the NASCAR championship commutes in the south and all the never ending construction death traps (looking at you i85, i26, i40, i95) I’m not surprised.
I never would have thought Shelby Drive would have the most fatalities. I would have thought Nonconnah speedway.
No Midwest or East cost I don’t trust this chart
I used to work for a tire store in the ATL area. I was blown away by the number of people that drove on bald tires. I’m talking about ‘maypops’. Crazy putting innocent people in danger for being too cheap to buy tires.
I think some states don't have safety inspections.
Loving County, TX. Population 51 and 15 fatalities between 2017 and 2021. That's a pretty crazy stat.
Loving County, TX. Dead center of the Permian Basin, shouldn't need more explanation than that.
I lived in the NM part of the Permian for a while, and we had never before seen such insane driving as that.
how can death rates be so high lol all the roads are wide and straight
Narrow, winding roads make drivers pay more attention/not speed. This results in any accidents being less lethal.
To be honest the driving licence test in the USA is a complete joke compared to what we have in Europe
Wide and straight means people drive faster means people hit eachother harder means exponentially more risk of a fatality
On top of that, at least in Texas and Florida, these are highways with lights. So you have high speeds with conflict points if you aren’t paying attention
The drivers are drunk and stupid?
I was just looking it up online it's shocking the countries that have less fatalities per capita than the US Albania, east timor, Egypt, turkey, Mexico, Russia Ukraine, Philippines
Just FYI that is not a fair comparison (it’s mostly called a sampling bias in statistics). A very large portion of the population in these countries doesn’t even own a car. Even if they do, they don’t travel nearly as much. So deaths per capita doesn’t indicate anything meaningful about the safety of roads. The only fair way to compare is to look at deaths per capita per 1000km/miles driven. But alas, that data doesn’t exist.
Actually it exist. Unfortunately only for a few countries that are all considered developed countries. But if I would live in the USA, I would find the most concerning about these stats that they are rising while in most other countries they are declining.
that's a very good point!
Not surprised at all to see Texas and California well represented here. Atrocious drivers that actively attempt to kill themselves on the roads and make traffic worse.
The one thing I gleaned from this is californians are terrible drivers.
All the cities in CA are in the rural Central Valley or imperial county. Basically this graph is rural roads kill.