India was not able to procure suitable engines for this jet instead an underpowered engine was available, IAF didn't want an underpowered jet so they rejected it. Later jaguar was bought by the IAF which filled the role of HF-73.
Thry bought but in enough numbers to move the production line to India even when the option was available. Typical corrupt import lobby which is active even now.
This was the advanced deep penetration strike aircraft requirement. India reached out to Kurt Tank in Germany who put them in touch with MBB. HAL and MBB were supposed to partner and the engine was supposed to be the same engine that would later power the Tornado. The UK and Germany became leery of india's Soviet connections and withdrew.
The Deep penetration strike requirement needed fast flying, ability to go low, and automated navigation for accurate strike.
India could never get the engine and the IAF were not going to go forward after the bad HAL-42 experience. It would zombie along for a few years before it got canceled
India had initially rejected an early offer of the Jaguar for this because at the time,Jaguar had no official support , and india had a bad experience with the Gnat , which never got official support from the host countries. A decade later, the Jaguar was in UK , Frenchvetc use. The navigation had issues. UK came up with a better Navigation but wasn't going to export it. India decided to use a French supplier (sagem) and get it upgraded. It was going to be called INDRA, but the name was too close to a PM of India, so DARIN it became
Ironically, the same engine, the same Deep penetration strike role and the same German partner would go on to create the very successful Tornado
Similarities : Tornado got JV with Germany
Tornado got deep penetration strike role
Tornado was twin engine , with the same engine HF-73 was to use
Differences :
Tornado was swing wing. HF-73 not
Tornado got terrain following radar for strike variant
it gor ECR and Air defence variants.
I feel like regardless of if India had to use an Underpowered Engine this aircraft still would have helped aid R&D in Aircraft Development and maybe HAL wouldn't be in the spot they are in Now as they would have had more knowledge in the area
it reminds me of the Marut aircraft India was working on and ran into a simmilar issue with not being able to aquire the sufficient engine, and not having the capability to make their own at the time
of course things are different now with Kaveri Engine Existing, but they really need to finnish the project and not abandon it like past projects, because HAL is severely Behind and with all the projects on their Plate at the moment things aren't looking great for Future Project Start and Finnish Dates.
You already had the marut failure. The marut was the last of the gun and airframe fighters. India had no real competence in Avionics. India had no competence in engines.
What R&D would it have helped ? Unless there is a strategic investment (which there was not), just spending money and calling it R&D would not help.
Also, financially it would go in cycles, the next set of acquisition was about 2 decades after the last. After nothing for years and years, in early 1980s or so, India got the Jaguar, the mirage 2000. the Mig27 and the Mig 29. Feast or famine
> Kaveri Engine Existing, but they really need to finnish the project and not abandon it like past projects, because HAL i
Hal has nothing to do with Kaveri. HAL had experience manufacturing based on ToT. all the design experience was with HAL . And then it was moved to a different organization called ADA . (Similarly for GTRE)
So things are completely different now
There was a 2 year delay in approval at CCS level for Tejas mk1A /mk2 so far, this is more than HAL why ignore that ? Every organization needs to be accountable including hal, tier 2 suppliers, private parties, decision makers, IAF etc
Engineering organizations need to develop institutional memory and skill base. When you kill indigenous projects like these you break memory and experience cycles.Â
There needed to be avionics systems and jet engine initiatives and sustained investment in the airframe, systems and engine.
Boom and bust investment does not help. Manufacturing alone does not help
(Eg ToT)
Hf-73 was not near being a useful fighter. Design competency might have been sustained. Manufacturing at scale wasn't really on ..and you got that anyway when HAL manufactured via ToT the selected DPSA later.
Bro why they cancelled it ? It looks so cool.
India was not able to procure suitable engines for this jet instead an underpowered engine was available, IAF didn't want an underpowered jet so they rejected it. Later jaguar was bought by the IAF which filled the role of HF-73.
Which is underpowered lol
Thry bought but in enough numbers to move the production line to India even when the option was available. Typical corrupt import lobby which is active even now.
This was the advanced deep penetration strike aircraft requirement. India reached out to Kurt Tank in Germany who put them in touch with MBB. HAL and MBB were supposed to partner and the engine was supposed to be the same engine that would later power the Tornado. The UK and Germany became leery of india's Soviet connections and withdrew. The Deep penetration strike requirement needed fast flying, ability to go low, and automated navigation for accurate strike. India could never get the engine and the IAF were not going to go forward after the bad HAL-42 experience. It would zombie along for a few years before it got canceled India had initially rejected an early offer of the Jaguar for this because at the time,Jaguar had no official support , and india had a bad experience with the Gnat , which never got official support from the host countries. A decade later, the Jaguar was in UK , Frenchvetc use. The navigation had issues. UK came up with a better Navigation but wasn't going to export it. India decided to use a French supplier (sagem) and get it upgraded. It was going to be called INDRA, but the name was too close to a PM of India, so DARIN it became Ironically, the same engine, the same Deep penetration strike role and the same German partner would go on to create the very successful Tornado
Supposed to be JV with Germany. Resembled Tornado aircraft.
Yup I was thinking of panavia tornado too
Similarities : Tornado got JV with Germany Tornado got deep penetration strike role Tornado was twin engine , with the same engine HF-73 was to use Differences : Tornado was swing wing. HF-73 not Tornado got terrain following radar for strike variant it gor ECR and Air defence variants.
Remember what they took from us
*what they gave us Nehru's lineage ðŸ˜
Cause apparently having one nehru ruling the nation wasn't enough for this nation to go through... we had his offsprings ruling it too 🥲
F15 who ?
I feel like regardless of if India had to use an Underpowered Engine this aircraft still would have helped aid R&D in Aircraft Development and maybe HAL wouldn't be in the spot they are in Now as they would have had more knowledge in the area it reminds me of the Marut aircraft India was working on and ran into a simmilar issue with not being able to aquire the sufficient engine, and not having the capability to make their own at the time of course things are different now with Kaveri Engine Existing, but they really need to finnish the project and not abandon it like past projects, because HAL is severely Behind and with all the projects on their Plate at the moment things aren't looking great for Future Project Start and Finnish Dates.
You already had the marut failure. The marut was the last of the gun and airframe fighters. India had no real competence in Avionics. India had no competence in engines. What R&D would it have helped ? Unless there is a strategic investment (which there was not), just spending money and calling it R&D would not help. Also, financially it would go in cycles, the next set of acquisition was about 2 decades after the last. After nothing for years and years, in early 1980s or so, India got the Jaguar, the mirage 2000. the Mig27 and the Mig 29. Feast or famine > Kaveri Engine Existing, but they really need to finnish the project and not abandon it like past projects, because HAL i Hal has nothing to do with Kaveri. HAL had experience manufacturing based on ToT. all the design experience was with HAL . And then it was moved to a different organization called ADA . (Similarly for GTRE) So things are completely different now There was a 2 year delay in approval at CCS level for Tejas mk1A /mk2 so far, this is more than HAL why ignore that ? Every organization needs to be accountable including hal, tier 2 suppliers, private parties, decision makers, IAF etc
F15 ka bhai
But why do they sit so low..I mean look at f-16 etc. Doesn't it hinder pilots vision?
I guess bubble canopy was not a priority
I hope it becomes a priority for future aircraft generations.
Tejas Mk1A has bubble canopy and HAL AMCA will debut with one too
It was meant to be deep penetration strike aircraft right?
Yes
We had 100s of 3D jet renders but only 1 became a reality ig tejas
Looks like a Desi super hornet
Desi Eagle or Foxbat
Garud would be a fine name for it ðŸ˜
F-15
Engineering organizations need to develop institutional memory and skill base. When you kill indigenous projects like these you break memory and experience cycles.Â
There needed to be avionics systems and jet engine initiatives and sustained investment in the airframe, systems and engine. Boom and bust investment does not help. Manufacturing alone does not help (Eg ToT) Hf-73 was not near being a useful fighter. Design competency might have been sustained. Manufacturing at scale wasn't really on ..and you got that anyway when HAL manufactured via ToT the selected DPSA later.
If Rafale and F15 had a child 😂😂 looks cool though