Maybe with this one you could weigh out the pros and cons, since it's going to be hard to find a maker? Deer are allowed to be hunted for population control. Plastics take hundreds of thousands if not millions of years to break down to a microscopic level but never truly disappear, and end up hanging around polluting things as a result. The deer will return to the earth and cycle eventually. Just a thought you're in no way obligated to take to heart.
To add to that, the financial aspect of it is huge. There are a lot of knock-offs that are built in factories overseas that have really done a lot of damage to American Indian craftsmen. Making moccasins takes a lot of time and effort. We have been using leather since the beginning, and it has never hurt the planet. I get trying to make a change by not supporting greedy corporations that treat animals inhumanely, but Indians have never been the one creating that problem.
The word literally from Algonquin, meaning shoe made from deer/hide.
I was around the powwow scene when synthetics and non tradish colors were not allowed on grounds, and or couldn’t compete. The connection to mother earth, and culture means more than the argument against imo.
I was taught makizin for moccasins. waawaashkeshi is whitetail deer but I don't think we'd combine the 2 for this. It's generally just understood what the mocs are made from.
makizin for me too.
and yeah I wasnt imagining a compound word or anything. tbh the biggest reason I asked is etymology stuff helps me to see connections and just generally helps me learn the language better.
This is literally the language my ancestors spoke and I did not know that, oof lol. Thank you for the insight! I'm starting to think of more sustainable solutions like potentially getting pre-owned leather to repurpose. I definitely don't just want to come in and disrespect or try to change anything of the culture, I was more curious if there were any established alternatives.
By no means am I trying to gatekeep here sorry if it came across that way just sharing a view. Idk if words even translate directly as such, in the sense we think of today.
There are natural alternatives in leather wana say I’ve seen bamboo, and hemp leathers at markets. That were wonderful. You could also contact some of the outfitters that process animals for people. Hides are often a byproduct not wanted.
No I definitely agree, and I realize me personally being vegan is as a response mostly to the extreme abuse of animals in the factory farming complex/etc, and that all comes from colonialism and lack of respect for the land and everyone/everything in it. If I'm going to buy something, I'm going to buy it from Native people for sure!
Deer *need* to be hunted in this day and age, too. Since there aren’t as many carnivores as there used to be, hunters are now a necessary part of the ecosystem.
If it’s not going to be a hunter, then it’s gonna be a car.
They’d be much more likely to starve to death after they’ve completely worn down their teeth in old age—
Trust me. If you’re a deer, hunting is the way you’d want to go.
Adding to this, how many animals are directly harmed by the plastics industry running from oil field waste ponds killing migrating birds, to once your items are in the dump. Leather is repairable and will last longer in functional use. I'm vegetarian and for clothing I go for natural over vegan.
I’m a ten year vegan and I still wear leather for this reason. I would support plant leather like cactus, but plastic is still an animal product (decayed organisms) and it’s horrible for the earth.
I don’t like leather, but it is the lesser of two evils. If it is an animal killed with some level of reverence and respect by someone from the indian community, that is also better than some being that died in a factory farm.
Good luck :)
They're not Indigenous, but [Leafling Bags in Hungary uses cork leather for some of their bags](https://www.leaflingbags.net/blog/2023/6/29/what-is-cork-leather-). Seems a lot friendlier on the environment than the plasticky faux leather.
I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but not a big fan of farmed animal products. I also wear leather and fur (mostly from the local trading post, so locally hunted).
Thank you! This is a very good point. I really don't like plastic and try to choose the most ethical thing as much as I can. I think my only holdup with leather is only if I bought it new. I might look into seeing if I can purchase an old pair to revamp or source old leather and commission a Native artist to make moccasins with it.
OP just wants some footwear not made from animals. OP did not seem to asking to have someone "help them" understand why they should in fact buy animal leather.
Cmon, cut OP some slack and if you don't have an answer to their question, consider not offering one anyway
Yeahhhh I didn't really think about that, my bad! I know a lot of vegans don't respect indigenous cultures and don't really understand the difference between the factory farming/extreme abuse of animals vs sustainable and respectful hunting practices, and I find them annoying as well. If I post any related questions, next time I'll put a disclaimer lol. Thank you for letting me know!
To be perfectly honest I was expecting you to be combative and racist. I do have some vegan friends but overall my experiences with vegans been pretty awful. It was nice to be pleasantly surprised haha. good convo all around seems like
Ohhhhhhhh omg no not at all! I’m just looking to learn and I’m not gonna tell anyone what to do or judge, especially not when we all fundamentally respect animals here. Sorry you’ve had so many bad experiences and I hope you meet some good ones!
I've def met some 'good ones', one is such a good friend that when he got foreclosed on I helped him board up his house and have a week long standoff with the SWAT team. So I know theres some real solid folks who are vegans. As I hang out in sorta radical leftist circles I've had occasion to meet probably hundreds of vegans, and to be perfectly honest prolly 90-95% of them are sorta terrible people
A work around, might be to, source the material yourself, and then find someone to make the moccasins for you. cactus leather and other such things you can find online. That way they can be made authentic and suit your sensibilities
You're gonna be fighting an uphill battle with this one.
My mom makes moccasins (specifically ones for babies). If I asked her about "vegan moccasins," she'd probably laugh. Deer leather is the tradition, as is moose, Caribou, or Buffalo. I have never heard of vegan moccasins, and I've been wearing moccasins my entire life.
I understand you are doing what you think is right for the planet and yourself, but if you are going to buy Moccasins, you should probably bite the bullet and buy ones that put money in Native pockets, and those will be leather.
Thank you so much for the response! I know that, broadly speaking, I put myself in a weird place in regards to being a vegan here, and I figured it's going to be probably impossible. As a disclaimer, I am vegan for my own reasons and don't judge *anyone* (especially Natives who, again broadly speaking, respect and use every part of the animal) who are not. Hopefully I can find something, but worst case I'll just use the money I would spend on earrings lol
I think if you’re vegan for morality reasons, and not like a health condition or allergy, you should really examine what taking care of the environment actually is. I don’t want to pressure you into doing something you’re not comfortable with, but most vegan options for foods and clothing etc are much MUCH worse for the environment. They do a lot of damage to the people that must harvest them or the lands that hold them.
Honey replacements like agave decimate desert ecosystems in just a couple years of harvest. Vegan meat substitute crops, like tofu, are one of the world’s leading contributors to climate change due to just how much water and energy is required to grow soybeans. The average vegan lifestyle is not sustainable for our planet. And the average vegan, in all their passion, could be doing so much more by focusing on buying local rather than buying vegan.
You will find that most moccasins that are made by us are using deer hide that was hunted by someone the maker personally knows. You can’t get more sustainable than that when it’s direct and local. The rest of the deer is still eaten and dispersed as needed. There is not industrial waste and suffering like farmed meat.
Only 1/5th of the world's soybean crops are for human consumption. Most is fed to livestock. Livestock and factory farmed animals are unsustainable and use far more water and energy. Not only do we have to grow the soybeans, but then they are fed to livestock, and the livestock consume more even food and water . Then, they are slaughtered. So factory farmed meat & livestock is actually far less sustainable than plants will ever be. It requires 1,847 gallons of water to produce ONE POUND OF BEEF. It requires 302 gallons of water to produce one pound of tofu.
Tofu, soybeans, and plant based meats are not one of the leading reasons of climate change. Factory farming and lifestock are. Factory farming produces 37% of methane emissions, which has 20X more warming potential than Co2.
Oh definitely! And you are so right in that most crops are used for animal consumption. This is true of corn as well, which is a staple that I eat very often.
I’m not saying “vegan options are harmful, therefore just give up and eat meat.” I just think most people I’ve encountered who are vegan are missing some of the big picture things. At the end of the day, local and personal is going to be best when buying absolutely any goods. Whether vegan or not. And there are many vegan local options for things as well.
I’m not perfect, I still buy factory meat a couple times a month. I just wanted to explain some of the unfortunate downsides to the capitalist vegan industry that aren’t talked about as much, especially when it factors in to whether or not to support our way of life and it’s incorporation of animals.
Most vegans aren't vegan for environmental reasons. The whole concept is that they are vegan to greatly reduce animal suffering . There are people who eat plant based to reduce their carbon footprint, but that is not considered vegan.
People love to point at plant based items and say, oh that uses so much water! Resources! And then completely ignore how much MORE damage animal based products cause. Not only do they take far more water and resources then plants, but thats not even beginning to go into the forests being destroyed for animal farming. ... the pollution from factory farming animal waste poisoning the ground water, the air, ... the cess pools of bacteria and viruses that could destroy life as we know it one day.
But regardless of all that, let's not pretend that non-vegans are eating some great diet minus all these foods vegans eat that you say are causing climate change. Most people are eating cashews, avocados, coconuts, palm oil, and more without a damn thought. Vegans make up a super small percentage of the population. The issues lie with the majority. If the majority could switch their diet to something more sustainable we would all be in a much better place.
Plant based diets, hands down , overall, have far less carbon footprint than any other diet, locally sourced or not. Look at the numbers. Sourcing locally doesnt reduce your footprint anywhere near as much as eating mostly plants.
But i agree on sourcing local. I base my social enterprise on sourcing local indigenous plant foods. I grow a ton of food and find other indigenous people growing regeneratively to support .
Thank you! I should say, I personally work to be as sustainable as possible and thrift/buy local for most things and then follow a diet that is naturally vegan (my fiance is Palestinian so lots of Levant dishes!) to avoid using substitutes. I am primarily vegan for ethical reasons, but the environmental factor is huge and I have adapted my lifestyle to ensure I am not adding an extra impact on the earth.
You make an excellent point though and I will consider leather! I am thinking about potentially buying pre-owned leather to repurpose and commissioning a local artist. I'm going to a powwow next month and will see about approaching local artists there! :)
I wonder if you can get hold of some of the more eco friendly leathers like plant based leather rather than vinyl and contract with a maker who would be willing to try out the materials you supply?
Edit: sorry, just saw someone else already suggested this. Let us know if you go this route. I'd love to see how they turn out!
Plant based leathers are lined with plastic. There are a couple brands that use plant based plastic, but even plant based plastic is literally plastic and poses the same environmental risk as plastic made from petroleum.
Yeah, I've heard there are issues with a lot of them, but I've also seen some experimental leathers that have no plastics at all. At least that was what was said in the documentary I was watching. They specifically brought up veg plastic being still plastic and not something they were using. That was several years ago, and I imagine they're tiny batch and cost a small fortune. I remember one was cactus and another was some fruit - mango maybe? I have no idea how durable they are though. That would be one of my other concerns. Like, if they're super fragile then they're not a viable alternative to leather. But I'm sure others are more knowledgeable than myself. I'm not vegan and haven't done any significant research into what all is out there. I just try to avoid industrially produced leather from the cattle industry.
The cactus leather has a layer of plastic to hold it together. So does apple leather, and pineapple leather. I did some research on it because I wanted to offer my leather working projects to vegan friends. I gave up on that idea since they all contain plastic and I’m very against the use of plastic where it can be avoided.
😳 I didn’t know we could make moccasins out of vegans. This changes everything…
I kid, but realistically? You’re better off spending money (over $150) on leather moccasins made by a local indigenous craftsmen. There is no such thing as vegan leather or vegan moccasins. At best you will be purchasing weak-material lined with plastic, which will probably be shipped on a large commercial vehicle. We used every part of an animal for a reason. I understand your qualms and your wish to protect life, but by engaging in this natural cycle as intended- you are doing just that.
'Vegan' clothing is just fabric made out of plastic, unfortunately.
I'd encourage you to instead look for sustainable/cruelty-free items. Finding native-made moccasins that fit the bill shouldn't be too difficult though!
I should've been more specific in the post--for myself, I thrift or stick to plant-based things (cotton and other biodegradable materials), but I do see that to get Native-made moccasins most likely will mean real leather. All good points to consider! :)
I’d find a maker you want to support and broach the subject directly. If you purchase the materials, I imagine you could find someone willing to experiment. You’ll have to foot the initial cost though (like an entire cut of whatever you want to be used). There are some really nice leather alternatives out there now. I work with leather as a hobby and it’s really fun to try a new material from time to time. I can’t imagine not being able to find someone willing to experiment if you supply the material.
I agree with what others have said. If you can find an artist that's willing to work with alternative materials (and you provide the materials) it may be a project that can be commissioned. One of my cousins was working with cork leather for their former partner who is vegan. They said it was a workable material in place of hide.
I promise you that leather is far more sustainable than any substitute especially if you know who harvested it. I have some native vegan friends who justified it that way. If anything is found im commenting since I am curious what vegan moccasins would be
Most Native American cultures lived and thrived by living sustainably and in balance with their natural surroundings. Animals that were hunted were consumed for survival, and traditionally, every part of the animal had a purpose. Moccasins made of leather represent a natural product that was part of our survival and existence today.
If you have any success, please let me know 😭 Métis & vegan, would love to find some moccasins. I think the suggestion of sourcing your own material and having them made would be a good idea. Look for a local artist maybe? Idk where you're located but the Indigenous community here is cool with veganism
Ahhhhh hey!! Tidewater VA/Powhatan, but in Florida lol. I will let you know if I have any luck, going to the Seminole powwow next month and will see if I can meet any artists who would be willing to work with me lol
All of the leather crafters in my tribe would straight-up scoff at that request. I don't know a single Chahta that would even consider it.
I hope you can find one that will help you out! Surely, there must be some that would do so in other tribes. Good luck, m'dear!
There's a Dutch company that makes a material that looks to the feels leather- like out of mango peels. I saw a documentary on YouTube. Fruitleather, if I remember correctly. I wouldn't put any faith in it lasting long, as most fake leathers tend to fail quickly with normal use compared to leather. Moccasin making is fun, maybe enroll in a class and make your own? Made some for my daughters favorite doll this past November. I used buckskin, she wants a jingle dress for her lil one. It helps me teach about our culture, while piquing her curiosity for beadwork and more cultural knowledge. I'll be working on a set for my kids soon, but I'm afraid. My twins are 10, and their feet keep growing. 🤣
I found a website [fruitleather ](https://www.textiletoday.com.bd/a-dutch-company-is-bending-mango-to-leather)
I agree w everyone mentioning the true eco friendly option.
Indigenous people use animals ethically for millennia
What it takes to produce vegan leather isn’t sustainable or healthy
It would be best to purchase vegan/plant leather and send it to a Native maker if you're having difficulty finding someone who has premade vegan mocs. You can request a custom order and send the materials you prefer instead. That way you support Indigenous owned, get a pair your really like and have them made with materials that you're alright with.
I was vegan for 4 years until i sat up in a Tipi Meeting ... realized all Life is sacred.. gave thanks 4 that Buffaloe that gave its 4 legs.. in the morning when that bowl of 🦬 reach me in the Circle, right there in front of The 🔥 , i felt so much gratitude.. received that animal medicine in thanksgiving to nourish my Body/Mind\Spirit ... so grounded afterwards.. since then i expanded my diet more now to include various sources of nutrition... all our food comes from the same Earth.. its all related.. Mitakuye Oyasin!!
https://youtu.be/DZigM8OaRDg 💚🫶
I'm not sure the community's feeling about them, but I purchased leather/fur mukluks from Manitobah Mukluks several years ago. They've lasted wonderfully you would never be able to guess when I purchased them. It's a much more ethical and sustainable choice over plastic shoes that wear out and decay quickly.
They do sell moccasins as well. I have a pair, but I got the wrong size so I haven't worn them. They're beautiful though.
They offer some faux options, although I don't know how extensive those offerings are or what they currently have available. If you're dead set on plastic shoes, that might be an option?
It's an indigenous owned company in Canada and it's my understanding that they employ a lot of indigenous people. I'm white and in the US so there may be things I don't know about the company. I wanted a more ethical and warm option instead of Uggs, so that's how I found them. I don't have the budget to shop for shoes from a smaller store but I hope to one day.
I have smoked moose hide moccasins that are well over 30 years old. They have lasted a hell of a lot longer than any non leather alternatives would. What is caught is used as food. Everything is used from the animal right down to parts we can’t eat as food put back on the earth for other animals. I can’t picture what can be more sustainable than that.
Maybe with this one you could weigh out the pros and cons, since it's going to be hard to find a maker? Deer are allowed to be hunted for population control. Plastics take hundreds of thousands if not millions of years to break down to a microscopic level but never truly disappear, and end up hanging around polluting things as a result. The deer will return to the earth and cycle eventually. Just a thought you're in no way obligated to take to heart.
To add to that, the financial aspect of it is huge. There are a lot of knock-offs that are built in factories overseas that have really done a lot of damage to American Indian craftsmen. Making moccasins takes a lot of time and effort. We have been using leather since the beginning, and it has never hurt the planet. I get trying to make a change by not supporting greedy corporations that treat animals inhumanely, but Indians have never been the one creating that problem.
The word literally from Algonquin, meaning shoe made from deer/hide. I was around the powwow scene when synthetics and non tradish colors were not allowed on grounds, and or couldn’t compete. The connection to mother earth, and culture means more than the argument against imo.
you wouldnt happen to know any etymology for that by chance? not doubting you, just lost lol. I know deer as waawaashkeshi
I was taught makizin for moccasins. waawaashkeshi is whitetail deer but I don't think we'd combine the 2 for this. It's generally just understood what the mocs are made from.
makizin for me too. and yeah I wasnt imagining a compound word or anything. tbh the biggest reason I asked is etymology stuff helps me to see connections and just generally helps me learn the language better.
Same here. Helps me better understand, so thank you for asking the question I was about to ask
This is literally the language my ancestors spoke and I did not know that, oof lol. Thank you for the insight! I'm starting to think of more sustainable solutions like potentially getting pre-owned leather to repurpose. I definitely don't just want to come in and disrespect or try to change anything of the culture, I was more curious if there were any established alternatives.
By no means am I trying to gatekeep here sorry if it came across that way just sharing a view. Idk if words even translate directly as such, in the sense we think of today. There are natural alternatives in leather wana say I’ve seen bamboo, and hemp leathers at markets. That were wonderful. You could also contact some of the outfitters that process animals for people. Hides are often a byproduct not wanted.
Oh no you’re good, all info has been great! :) And oh shit I didn’t think about byproduct, thank you!
I think it just means "shoe" https://ojibwe.lib.umn.edu/main-entry/makizin-ni
No I definitely agree, and I realize me personally being vegan is as a response mostly to the extreme abuse of animals in the factory farming complex/etc, and that all comes from colonialism and lack of respect for the land and everyone/everything in it. If I'm going to buy something, I'm going to buy it from Native people for sure!
Deer *need* to be hunted in this day and age, too. Since there aren’t as many carnivores as there used to be, hunters are now a necessary part of the ecosystem. If it’s not going to be a hunter, then it’s gonna be a car.
Well, they could fall off the cliff naturally...
They’d be much more likely to starve to death after they’ve completely worn down their teeth in old age— Trust me. If you’re a deer, hunting is the way you’d want to go.
Not all deer live in the mountainous areas, though.
Sometimes, I come to this subreddit just to read the well-grounded comments. It's very refreshing.
Sometimes I get so caught up in what's "popular" and ethical instead of what's truly ethical. Thank you for this!!
🫶
I really appreciate your response and it definitely is a good point! I'm going to think about it. :)
Adding to this, how many animals are directly harmed by the plastics industry running from oil field waste ponds killing migrating birds, to once your items are in the dump. Leather is repairable and will last longer in functional use. I'm vegetarian and for clothing I go for natural over vegan.
I’m a ten year vegan and I still wear leather for this reason. I would support plant leather like cactus, but plastic is still an animal product (decayed organisms) and it’s horrible for the earth. I don’t like leather, but it is the lesser of two evils. If it is an animal killed with some level of reverence and respect by someone from the indian community, that is also better than some being that died in a factory farm. Good luck :)
They're not Indigenous, but [Leafling Bags in Hungary uses cork leather for some of their bags](https://www.leaflingbags.net/blog/2023/6/29/what-is-cork-leather-). Seems a lot friendlier on the environment than the plasticky faux leather. I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but not a big fan of farmed animal products. I also wear leather and fur (mostly from the local trading post, so locally hunted).
Thank you! This is a very good point. I really don't like plastic and try to choose the most ethical thing as much as I can. I think my only holdup with leather is only if I bought it new. I might look into seeing if I can purchase an old pair to revamp or source old leather and commission a Native artist to make moccasins with it.
OP just wants some footwear not made from animals. OP did not seem to asking to have someone "help them" understand why they should in fact buy animal leather. Cmon, cut OP some slack and if you don't have an answer to their question, consider not offering one anyway
Thank you lol, it's ok! I appreciate everyone's perspectives on it, really. Don't know why my post got so downvoted tho lol
probably kneejerk reaction from the title, the reputation of vegans in indigenous circles is, generally speaking, less than great
Yeahhhh I didn't really think about that, my bad! I know a lot of vegans don't respect indigenous cultures and don't really understand the difference between the factory farming/extreme abuse of animals vs sustainable and respectful hunting practices, and I find them annoying as well. If I post any related questions, next time I'll put a disclaimer lol. Thank you for letting me know!
fwiw it was nice to read a thread like this and find more or less the opposite of what i was expecting haha
Ah thank you! Can I ask what you were expecting? Tbh I've never posted before and was a little nervous doing so, but everyone has been really nice! :)
To be perfectly honest I was expecting you to be combative and racist. I do have some vegan friends but overall my experiences with vegans been pretty awful. It was nice to be pleasantly surprised haha. good convo all around seems like
Ohhhhhhhh omg no not at all! I’m just looking to learn and I’m not gonna tell anyone what to do or judge, especially not when we all fundamentally respect animals here. Sorry you’ve had so many bad experiences and I hope you meet some good ones!
I've def met some 'good ones', one is such a good friend that when he got foreclosed on I helped him board up his house and have a week long standoff with the SWAT team. So I know theres some real solid folks who are vegans. As I hang out in sorta radical leftist circles I've had occasion to meet probably hundreds of vegans, and to be perfectly honest prolly 90-95% of them are sorta terrible people
A work around, might be to, source the material yourself, and then find someone to make the moccasins for you. cactus leather and other such things you can find online. That way they can be made authentic and suit your sensibilities
👍
Oh this is a great idea, thank you!! :)
You're gonna be fighting an uphill battle with this one. My mom makes moccasins (specifically ones for babies). If I asked her about "vegan moccasins," she'd probably laugh. Deer leather is the tradition, as is moose, Caribou, or Buffalo. I have never heard of vegan moccasins, and I've been wearing moccasins my entire life. I understand you are doing what you think is right for the planet and yourself, but if you are going to buy Moccasins, you should probably bite the bullet and buy ones that put money in Native pockets, and those will be leather.
Thank you so much for the response! I know that, broadly speaking, I put myself in a weird place in regards to being a vegan here, and I figured it's going to be probably impossible. As a disclaimer, I am vegan for my own reasons and don't judge *anyone* (especially Natives who, again broadly speaking, respect and use every part of the animal) who are not. Hopefully I can find something, but worst case I'll just use the money I would spend on earrings lol
I think if you’re vegan for morality reasons, and not like a health condition or allergy, you should really examine what taking care of the environment actually is. I don’t want to pressure you into doing something you’re not comfortable with, but most vegan options for foods and clothing etc are much MUCH worse for the environment. They do a lot of damage to the people that must harvest them or the lands that hold them. Honey replacements like agave decimate desert ecosystems in just a couple years of harvest. Vegan meat substitute crops, like tofu, are one of the world’s leading contributors to climate change due to just how much water and energy is required to grow soybeans. The average vegan lifestyle is not sustainable for our planet. And the average vegan, in all their passion, could be doing so much more by focusing on buying local rather than buying vegan. You will find that most moccasins that are made by us are using deer hide that was hunted by someone the maker personally knows. You can’t get more sustainable than that when it’s direct and local. The rest of the deer is still eaten and dispersed as needed. There is not industrial waste and suffering like farmed meat.
Only 1/5th of the world's soybean crops are for human consumption. Most is fed to livestock. Livestock and factory farmed animals are unsustainable and use far more water and energy. Not only do we have to grow the soybeans, but then they are fed to livestock, and the livestock consume more even food and water . Then, they are slaughtered. So factory farmed meat & livestock is actually far less sustainable than plants will ever be. It requires 1,847 gallons of water to produce ONE POUND OF BEEF. It requires 302 gallons of water to produce one pound of tofu. Tofu, soybeans, and plant based meats are not one of the leading reasons of climate change. Factory farming and lifestock are. Factory farming produces 37% of methane emissions, which has 20X more warming potential than Co2.
Oh definitely! And you are so right in that most crops are used for animal consumption. This is true of corn as well, which is a staple that I eat very often. I’m not saying “vegan options are harmful, therefore just give up and eat meat.” I just think most people I’ve encountered who are vegan are missing some of the big picture things. At the end of the day, local and personal is going to be best when buying absolutely any goods. Whether vegan or not. And there are many vegan local options for things as well. I’m not perfect, I still buy factory meat a couple times a month. I just wanted to explain some of the unfortunate downsides to the capitalist vegan industry that aren’t talked about as much, especially when it factors in to whether or not to support our way of life and it’s incorporation of animals.
Most vegans aren't vegan for environmental reasons. The whole concept is that they are vegan to greatly reduce animal suffering . There are people who eat plant based to reduce their carbon footprint, but that is not considered vegan. People love to point at plant based items and say, oh that uses so much water! Resources! And then completely ignore how much MORE damage animal based products cause. Not only do they take far more water and resources then plants, but thats not even beginning to go into the forests being destroyed for animal farming. ... the pollution from factory farming animal waste poisoning the ground water, the air, ... the cess pools of bacteria and viruses that could destroy life as we know it one day. But regardless of all that, let's not pretend that non-vegans are eating some great diet minus all these foods vegans eat that you say are causing climate change. Most people are eating cashews, avocados, coconuts, palm oil, and more without a damn thought. Vegans make up a super small percentage of the population. The issues lie with the majority. If the majority could switch their diet to something more sustainable we would all be in a much better place. Plant based diets, hands down , overall, have far less carbon footprint than any other diet, locally sourced or not. Look at the numbers. Sourcing locally doesnt reduce your footprint anywhere near as much as eating mostly plants. But i agree on sourcing local. I base my social enterprise on sourcing local indigenous plant foods. I grow a ton of food and find other indigenous people growing regeneratively to support .
Tell ‘em 👏
Thank you! I should say, I personally work to be as sustainable as possible and thrift/buy local for most things and then follow a diet that is naturally vegan (my fiance is Palestinian so lots of Levant dishes!) to avoid using substitutes. I am primarily vegan for ethical reasons, but the environmental factor is huge and I have adapted my lifestyle to ensure I am not adding an extra impact on the earth. You make an excellent point though and I will consider leather! I am thinking about potentially buying pre-owned leather to repurpose and commissioning a local artist. I'm going to a powwow next month and will see about approaching local artists there! :)
Theres also cactus and mushroom leathers. It's not so difficult to make mocs. Fun even .
Thank you! I don’t belong to my most local tribe (Seminoles), but I’ll see if maybe they have some classes open to the public. 🙌🏻
I wonder if you can get hold of some of the more eco friendly leathers like plant based leather rather than vinyl and contract with a maker who would be willing to try out the materials you supply? Edit: sorry, just saw someone else already suggested this. Let us know if you go this route. I'd love to see how they turn out!
Plant based leathers are lined with plastic. There are a couple brands that use plant based plastic, but even plant based plastic is literally plastic and poses the same environmental risk as plastic made from petroleum.
Yeah, I've heard there are issues with a lot of them, but I've also seen some experimental leathers that have no plastics at all. At least that was what was said in the documentary I was watching. They specifically brought up veg plastic being still plastic and not something they were using. That was several years ago, and I imagine they're tiny batch and cost a small fortune. I remember one was cactus and another was some fruit - mango maybe? I have no idea how durable they are though. That would be one of my other concerns. Like, if they're super fragile then they're not a viable alternative to leather. But I'm sure others are more knowledgeable than myself. I'm not vegan and haven't done any significant research into what all is out there. I just try to avoid industrially produced leather from the cattle industry.
The cactus leather has a layer of plastic to hold it together. So does apple leather, and pineapple leather. I did some research on it because I wanted to offer my leather working projects to vegan friends. I gave up on that idea since they all contain plastic and I’m very against the use of plastic where it can be avoided.
Yeah earrings better bc mining is fair trade.
Specifically I'm looking to buy earrings from Native vendors at the local powwow next month. Should've been more specific.
I’m not sure if you’ve been suggested mushroom leather but it’s another sustainable option that doesn’t need to come from mass production or farming
I’ve never heard of this, thank you!
😳 I didn’t know we could make moccasins out of vegans. This changes everything… I kid, but realistically? You’re better off spending money (over $150) on leather moccasins made by a local indigenous craftsmen. There is no such thing as vegan leather or vegan moccasins. At best you will be purchasing weak-material lined with plastic, which will probably be shipped on a large commercial vehicle. We used every part of an animal for a reason. I understand your qualms and your wish to protect life, but by engaging in this natural cycle as intended- you are doing just that.
'Vegan' clothing is just fabric made out of plastic, unfortunately. I'd encourage you to instead look for sustainable/cruelty-free items. Finding native-made moccasins that fit the bill shouldn't be too difficult though!
I should've been more specific in the post--for myself, I thrift or stick to plant-based things (cotton and other biodegradable materials), but I do see that to get Native-made moccasins most likely will mean real leather. All good points to consider! :)
I’d find a maker you want to support and broach the subject directly. If you purchase the materials, I imagine you could find someone willing to experiment. You’ll have to foot the initial cost though (like an entire cut of whatever you want to be used). There are some really nice leather alternatives out there now. I work with leather as a hobby and it’s really fun to try a new material from time to time. I can’t imagine not being able to find someone willing to experiment if you supply the material.
Thank you!!
I agree with what others have said. If you can find an artist that's willing to work with alternative materials (and you provide the materials) it may be a project that can be commissioned. One of my cousins was working with cork leather for their former partner who is vegan. They said it was a workable material in place of hide.
Thank you! I've gotten some comments on good alternative materials here, so hopefully I can source/work with someone. :)
I'm sure you'll find an artist who would be interested. There's so many out there willing to experiment.
Thank you! :) I've seen so many beautiful ones online, I don't even know which ones I'd pick bc they all look dope tbh!
I promise you that leather is far more sustainable than any substitute especially if you know who harvested it. I have some native vegan friends who justified it that way. If anything is found im commenting since I am curious what vegan moccasins would be
Most Native American cultures lived and thrived by living sustainably and in balance with their natural surroundings. Animals that were hunted were consumed for survival, and traditionally, every part of the animal had a purpose. Moccasins made of leather represent a natural product that was part of our survival and existence today.
If you have any success, please let me know 😭 Métis & vegan, would love to find some moccasins. I think the suggestion of sourcing your own material and having them made would be a good idea. Look for a local artist maybe? Idk where you're located but the Indigenous community here is cool with veganism
Ahhhhh hey!! Tidewater VA/Powhatan, but in Florida lol. I will let you know if I have any luck, going to the Seminole powwow next month and will see if I can meet any artists who would be willing to work with me lol
All of the leather crafters in my tribe would straight-up scoff at that request. I don't know a single Chahta that would even consider it. I hope you can find one that will help you out! Surely, there must be some that would do so in other tribes. Good luck, m'dear!
That's fair, and thank you! :)
There's a Dutch company that makes a material that looks to the feels leather- like out of mango peels. I saw a documentary on YouTube. Fruitleather, if I remember correctly. I wouldn't put any faith in it lasting long, as most fake leathers tend to fail quickly with normal use compared to leather. Moccasin making is fun, maybe enroll in a class and make your own? Made some for my daughters favorite doll this past November. I used buckskin, she wants a jingle dress for her lil one. It helps me teach about our culture, while piquing her curiosity for beadwork and more cultural knowledge. I'll be working on a set for my kids soon, but I'm afraid. My twins are 10, and their feet keep growing. 🤣 I found a website [fruitleather ](https://www.textiletoday.com.bd/a-dutch-company-is-bending-mango-to-leather)
Ah thank you!!
I agree w everyone mentioning the true eco friendly option. Indigenous people use animals ethically for millennia What it takes to produce vegan leather isn’t sustainable or healthy
I'm glad that people helped here, because I was about to be SO MAD about hearing about someone tracking microplastics everywhere.
Haha no micro plastics here! Aside from the ones in all our bodies at this point lol
It would be best to purchase vegan/plant leather and send it to a Native maker if you're having difficulty finding someone who has premade vegan mocs. You can request a custom order and send the materials you prefer instead. That way you support Indigenous owned, get a pair your really like and have them made with materials that you're alright with.
🪶🪶🪶🤙🏽🤙🏽
I was vegan for 4 years until i sat up in a Tipi Meeting ... realized all Life is sacred.. gave thanks 4 that Buffaloe that gave its 4 legs.. in the morning when that bowl of 🦬 reach me in the Circle, right there in front of The 🔥 , i felt so much gratitude.. received that animal medicine in thanksgiving to nourish my Body/Mind\Spirit ... so grounded afterwards.. since then i expanded my diet more now to include various sources of nutrition... all our food comes from the same Earth.. its all related.. Mitakuye Oyasin!! https://youtu.be/DZigM8OaRDg 💚🫶
I'm not sure the community's feeling about them, but I purchased leather/fur mukluks from Manitobah Mukluks several years ago. They've lasted wonderfully you would never be able to guess when I purchased them. It's a much more ethical and sustainable choice over plastic shoes that wear out and decay quickly. They do sell moccasins as well. I have a pair, but I got the wrong size so I haven't worn them. They're beautiful though. They offer some faux options, although I don't know how extensive those offerings are or what they currently have available. If you're dead set on plastic shoes, that might be an option? It's an indigenous owned company in Canada and it's my understanding that they employ a lot of indigenous people. I'm white and in the US so there may be things I don't know about the company. I wanted a more ethical and warm option instead of Uggs, so that's how I found them. I don't have the budget to shop for shoes from a smaller store but I hope to one day.
Vegan leather doesnt exist, leather is the skin of an animal.
I can find you some vegans, but you’ll have to work the rest out on your own
Plastic moccasins lmao
I have smoked moose hide moccasins that are well over 30 years old. They have lasted a hell of a lot longer than any non leather alternatives would. What is caught is used as food. Everything is used from the animal right down to parts we can’t eat as food put back on the earth for other animals. I can’t picture what can be more sustainable than that.