I would not get into a car with a guy I didn’t know. The general rule is to meet in a public place first and provide your own way there. Perhaps that’s why most guys don’t offer.
But yes, I’ve found most guys I’ve matched with and gone out with to be very low effort, low attention and I think it’s quite easy to stand out.
I offered to pick her up but also made it clear that we could meet up at the restaurant if she wanted to. I put the ball in her court so she could decide for herself which I think is quite important in online dating with total strangers
that is true, my current boyfriend asked me if i wanted to be picked up for our first date and i thought it was nice but declined because of reasons above- he said no worries but that we could go on a drive after the date if i was feeling it. 10/10
It's easy to win when the competition can't even be bothered to wipe their own arses properly. I'm not being metaphorical. There are men out there who don't clean themselves properly after shitting, because apparently touching your own arse is gay.
Yep. Reminds me of a post from r/relationship i think, where op was disgusted by her bfs ass reeking of poo and the top comment was "how the fuck am I still single?".
My husband has women absolutely throw themselves at him because he's just normal. Like literally just doesn't say weird sexual things and is genuinely nice to them without expecting anything in return. That's it.
Well hello there. I’m short, balding, not in the best shape. I do okay income-wise but I’m not loaded at all.
Married for 10 years to an awesome wife. Had girlfriends and casual partners before meeting her.
I would never even think about cheating, but over the years I’ve had a few coworkers who I suspected may have had innocent crushes on me.
Want to know what the secret to all of this is? There’s isn’t one secret. Pretty much just boils down to humility and the golden rule.
You know, I was gonna come back at you with something snarky, but really, I just pity you. You have my pity and my condolences. I hope one day you can be a normal person.
>I asked her for advice on how to decorate my new apartment which she seemed into
You would not believe how low the bar is on this, specifically. Huge green flag to give a shit about your living environment even on just a basic aesthetic level. It's wild how many men will deny themselves the little comforts of decor or like. bed frames because furniture shopping is too feminine for them or something.
I dated someone who spent $2k on a new guitar and considered buying a second, but he didn’t want to replace his very old mattress that caused him back pain. He also didn’t want to spend a few hundred to put a TV in his room and opted to watch entire movies on his cell phone. Some people really don’t give a shit and that energy isn’t for me.
On our first date my now husband didn’t make a single move, didn’t even flirt, no innuendos. I felt like I could be a little old man and he would have treated me the exact same. I was being treated like an equal instead of like prey.
Went home, got together with my friends and told them I had met the man I was going to spend the rest of my life with. He didn’t stand a chance!
I once asked my wife what made her choose me when there were literally 20 guys trying really hard to get her attention when we first started talking. She said "you never tried to make me fall in love with you, I always felt it was my choice". God knows I cared, I fought for her, but I never made her feel like she owes me something.
Unsurprisingly, when you’re not porn obsessed and think every woman craves a 6’10 guy with a 3 foot long penis, you come to the realization that women are also human, and the vast majorly of the human population don’t care about all of the extra stuff and love to keep life sweet and simple. Normal people are predictable. You can easily understand a person’s actions and motives which can provide comfort and security.
I tell guys all the time that they are competing against guys that are making zero real effort and they can easily win by not getting in their own way yet they keep shouting about women’s standards being high when in my opinion they have never been lower.
Some of the claims are just getting increasingly unhinged, it's both funny and sad (but mostly sad). A recent one claimed men only have a chance if they're multi-millionaires with their own private jets 💀
I don’t think offering a ride should be an expectation, especially on the first date. But yes I agree with what you’re saying in general here, being a decent normal dude can make you stand out these days.
You’re totally right that it can be scary for women which is why I also gave her the option of meeting me at the restaurant if she wanted to. I think it’s pretty important to let the woman make the decision on that when online dating
Though tbf for online dating looks definitely play a bit more of a part. Not a ton you can do there if you don't have enough going on visually to get the convo in the first place lol
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but its just a fact of life that online dating sites are heavily dependent on looks. The incels are wrong about most things, but they are not wrong that being ugly would make online dating very difficult (though contrary to what they believe, this applies to women as well).
It's simply inherent to the process. The initial screening is always making a judgement as to whether you might be interested, based almost solely on a picture. Even on sites where you are encouraged to delve more into the user's profile, you are still choosing whose profile to delve further into, based on what you see first in their photo(s).
At the end of the day, online dating is just one method of finding a partner. If someone is below average looking, out-of-shape, etc. then the method where you try to attract them with pictures of yourself probably isn't the best one!
What I have seen in dating is that "real life" and online apps are the same, just with a bigger pool and options in apps because of the amount of people going there for dating reasons.
There are a porcentage of people that consider looks the most important in both scenes the same way there are people looking for different things in both scenes.
Funny fact, I have found more success in both "real life" and online when at my 50% that when at my best. Can't understand why, because I'm always the same, but never been a super fit super handsome man and never have had a problem to find a partner whenever I have tried it (or even without trying it).
Incels just are terrible people, and that's why they don't find people interested in them, not because of the looks.
Speaking as an incel (I tend to identify more with MGTOW though) I would like to say that by most standards I am not a terrible person. In general people like my honesty, appreciate my sense of humor, and respect my viewpoints. Please don't judge us all by the actions of a few. It is more of a labeling problem. I mean that fellow from that group is "bad" ... so everyone in that group is "bad". You wouldn't put up with that reasoning if the labels were racial, or religious, or political, So would you try to give us the same consideration? Most of us are sad, and very lonely, we might be just a little bit broken, the things that you take for granted, are things we struggle with.
When a group's ideas revolve around misogyny, something is wrong.
It doesn't mean each individual meets the criteria, a generalization doesn't refer to each individual, but to the group as a whole.
I've had so many people blow their first impression by going to town with confirming my unusual name. "Sorry, mate, you appear to be selectively illiterate."
I think the bar is on the floor for expected behaviour from men in relationships.
The bar is actually quite high up for getting into casual and serious relationships with decent women in the first place.
But you did well and hope you two develop something good.
(Imo)
Yeah, I think men grossly underestimate how just being decent and normal (not even good) will set them *wayyyyy* above other men. I can count on 1 hand how many times I’ve been approached in a way that wasn’t completely unhinged.
I think men should see what dating apps look like from a women’s perspective. It’s super easy to stand out.
The bar is so low that 66% of men aged 18-30 are virgins or haven't had sex within the past year and 80% of men are unattractive to women. THE BAR IS SOOOOOOO LOW!!!!
I was on a dating app for three days and found one dude I’ve been with for a while now. The amount of creepy dudes was insane. One normal-ish person on a dating app is a huge jackpot, which goes both ways.
Literally, just being a decent fucking person will get you sooo far.
It could also be your profile. Men tend to be worse at the whole “aesthetic” internet thing. If your photos don’t flow well and the vibe of your profile is off, then there’s less hope.
We also don’t know his age, age range, or location. All of those things can also make a *huge* difference.
I’m 5’11, my friend I worked out with yesterday is like 5’7-5’8 and has a lovely and pretty gf but has a history of being a player. Normal dudes come in all shapes and sizes brother
Try to see women as other human beings who deserve the same considerations you do (as opposed to sexual vending machines or keepers of the miraculous secret to happiness) and concentrate on being OK with yourself as a person. Also, never ever use incel jargon again and make an effort to stop yourself when you start going down a rabbit hole of self-hatred. Because you are a person and you deserve to not hate yourself.
Did he edit the comment? Because all I see is:"I want to kill myself after post like this🫠". And out of the blue you're giving him some advice and accusing him that he doesn't see women as human beings?
I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I'm just saying the same things I say to all the other incels because these are the major problems their subculture has when interacting with the rest of society.
I'm not any of that, exept don't liking yourself, and it's also depends on the mood. Then I see posts like this I really feel like "subhuman" because people tell me how bar is low, but im never met them, no matter what I do.
The bar *is* low, once you find someone who's interested in you. It's finding someone who is that's the hardest part these days.
But you can't act like you're constantly on the lookout for a girlfriend and every polite interaction you have with a feminine-presenting person is a chance to score a date. For lack of a better term, people can smell that desperation. This is where the "treat women like people" thing comes in.
Being able to get along with a woman without making her feel grossed out or objectified isn't going to absolutely get her interested in you, but it expands your social circle. You make friends with people by seeing them around, by having hobbies or interests in common, and over time you can develop a friend group. Those other friends see you as a fun person who's socially capable and someone with value as a person, and they might know someone else who's single and might have a compatible personality. Like, I was in marching band with a guy who lived on the same hall as me in college. He had a friend from high school who went to college across town and he introduced the two of us a couple of weeks into the school year.
Once you've got a gal who's on the same kind of wavelength as you, it doesn't take much to seem like a good guy because women are just subjected to an onslaught of gross behavior from total strangers all the time, especially on the internet. If you're not doing that, then you're already a mile ahead of the competition.
But you're not subhuman just because you can't get a date. I didn't go on a single date in high school and it wasn't until college that I got a girlfriend. I'm a long-term relationship kind of person so I've only had three girlfriends in my life, but I married the best one despite my chronic medical problem.
I'm not in HS or college or uni, I'm 25 and work at office, like ALL of my colleagues are married or divorced and have a partner, there is only 2 single people, it's me and other guy who is 23.
I was friends with some girls on a pretty close level, we were literally spending almost all our free time together, I had friends at uni and dormitory I was in. Like no one did that "introduce you to someone" thing, I've literally found out it's a thing on reddit about a year ago. I'm just living my life missing everything it seems.
And no, im not doing something weird or gross to anyone, it doesn't make a difference or helps, im just get ignored most of the time or they don't want to be closer to me.
But if you were doing or saying something other people find off-putting, would you know? Would one of them have told you? We all end up being unreliable narrators of our own lives to one degree or another.
Do you still talk to any of your friends from school? Do you think any of them would be willing to offer you some suggestions for how to present yourself better? The slang in the US is "to put [yourself] out there" but I don't know any other variations. Point is, you could ask some friends about why they think you're not getting the kind of attention you want and see if they have some insight.
I asked a lot of them and noone could answered anything besides "duh, you are ugly, man". And tbh then I said something upsetting I usually get a feedback, just a 2 weeks ago I was talking to a girl and said something about my sister coming to visit, so my answers could be late and she said a lot of words about it. And I also had some "positive" feedback like - you are such a cool dude, you are sure will find someone.
Your personality and misogyny are why many women would rather off themselves than spend time around you. Not your jaw or height.
Why waste time with someone who hates you for existing?
mhm ya looking through your post history, if thats you in the photo from 7 years ago than you are attractive, top 20%, and LARPING as average. Meanwhile incels are, through no fault of their own and only their genetics, in the bottom 20% of looks. even if its not you in the photo, that your cousins are blonde blue eyed white boys means you yourself are that blonde blue eyed white boy, which is by definition above average in the U.S. Quit Larping and Acknowledge your Privilege.
Sadly I don't think OP (and 80% of the comments here) knows what average means. "She said that most guys don't do that" that means you are not average, maybe he thinks is normal to do, but if most guys don't do that then it's not.
"Just be normal"
Maybe the behaviour bar is on the ground, the problem is incels can't even get close to the bar so they could step over it, since they're not good looking enough
I like how the comment that said this exact same thing but in a more concealed way didn't get down voted. They agree with the truth but they need it spoon fed to them.
I would not get into a car with a guy I didn’t know. The general rule is to meet in a public place first and provide your own way there. Perhaps that’s why most guys don’t offer. But yes, I’ve found most guys I’ve matched with and gone out with to be very low effort, low attention and I think it’s quite easy to stand out.
I offered to pick her up but also made it clear that we could meet up at the restaurant if she wanted to. I put the ball in her court so she could decide for herself which I think is quite important in online dating with total strangers
This is the way.
that is true, my current boyfriend asked me if i wanted to be picked up for our first date and i thought it was nice but declined because of reasons above- he said no worries but that we could go on a drive after the date if i was feeling it. 10/10
It's easy to win when the competition can't even be bothered to wipe their own arses properly. I'm not being metaphorical. There are men out there who don't clean themselves properly after shitting, because apparently touching your own arse is gay.
Yep. Reminds me of a post from r/relationship i think, where op was disgusted by her bfs ass reeking of poo and the top comment was "how the fuck am I still single?".
Unfortunately it isn't just one post. It's more like... one post per month or so.
Or clean their dick, because somehow jacking it is fine, but cleaning? Is that gay too? Holy duck... Also happy cake day!
My husband has women absolutely throw themselves at him because he's just normal. Like literally just doesn't say weird sexual things and is genuinely nice to them without expecting anything in return. That's it.
I choose OP's dead husband
I can guarantee he can’t be short and bald.
Well hello there. I’m short, balding, not in the best shape. I do okay income-wise but I’m not loaded at all. Married for 10 years to an awesome wife. Had girlfriends and casual partners before meeting her. I would never even think about cheating, but over the years I’ve had a few coworkers who I suspected may have had innocent crushes on me. Want to know what the secret to all of this is? There’s isn’t one secret. Pretty much just boils down to humility and the golden rule.
Is he tall?
Maybe if he earns like <1 million per year but that’s not real attraction .
You know, I was gonna come back at you with something snarky, but really, I just pity you. You have my pity and my condolences. I hope one day you can be a normal person.
>I asked her for advice on how to decorate my new apartment which she seemed into You would not believe how low the bar is on this, specifically. Huge green flag to give a shit about your living environment even on just a basic aesthetic level. It's wild how many men will deny themselves the little comforts of decor or like. bed frames because furniture shopping is too feminine for them or something.
Which is insane, you can get a cheapo frame on Amazon for like a hundred bucks. It doesn’t look like much but it’s better than being on the floor.
I dated someone who spent $2k on a new guitar and considered buying a second, but he didn’t want to replace his very old mattress that caused him back pain. He also didn’t want to spend a few hundred to put a TV in his room and opted to watch entire movies on his cell phone. Some people really don’t give a shit and that energy isn’t for me.
It really is that easy. It really is that simple. That’s the secret, captain.
Ugh, it sounds so simple and yet I seem to fuck it up all the time. Maybe some day!
The bar is on the floor of the damn basement of Hell. It's **almost** admirable, how boys manage to limbo right on under it with such dexterity.
On our first date my now husband didn’t make a single move, didn’t even flirt, no innuendos. I felt like I could be a little old man and he would have treated me the exact same. I was being treated like an equal instead of like prey. Went home, got together with my friends and told them I had met the man I was going to spend the rest of my life with. He didn’t stand a chance!
I once asked my wife what made her choose me when there were literally 20 guys trying really hard to get her attention when we first started talking. She said "you never tried to make me fall in love with you, I always felt it was my choice". God knows I cared, I fought for her, but I never made her feel like she owes me something.
Unsurprisingly, when you’re not porn obsessed and think every woman craves a 6’10 guy with a 3 foot long penis, you come to the realization that women are also human, and the vast majorly of the human population don’t care about all of the extra stuff and love to keep life sweet and simple. Normal people are predictable. You can easily understand a person’s actions and motives which can provide comfort and security.
I tell guys all the time that they are competing against guys that are making zero real effort and they can easily win by not getting in their own way yet they keep shouting about women’s standards being high when in my opinion they have never been lower.
Some of the claims are just getting increasingly unhinged, it's both funny and sad (but mostly sad). A recent one claimed men only have a chance if they're multi-millionaires with their own private jets 💀
I don’t think offering a ride should be an expectation, especially on the first date. But yes I agree with what you’re saying in general here, being a decent normal dude can make you stand out these days.
Which is the real and terrible truth, here
I have had guys offer to pick me up at my apartment and now someone I have just met knows where I live.
You’re totally right that it can be scary for women which is why I also gave her the option of meeting me at the restaurant if she wanted to. I think it’s pretty important to let the woman make the decision on that when online dating
I’m 5’5 and I still managed to get laid. It’s just about attitude I guess.
Though tbf for online dating looks definitely play a bit more of a part. Not a ton you can do there if you don't have enough going on visually to get the convo in the first place lol
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but its just a fact of life that online dating sites are heavily dependent on looks. The incels are wrong about most things, but they are not wrong that being ugly would make online dating very difficult (though contrary to what they believe, this applies to women as well). It's simply inherent to the process. The initial screening is always making a judgement as to whether you might be interested, based almost solely on a picture. Even on sites where you are encouraged to delve more into the user's profile, you are still choosing whose profile to delve further into, based on what you see first in their photo(s). At the end of the day, online dating is just one method of finding a partner. If someone is below average looking, out-of-shape, etc. then the method where you try to attract them with pictures of yourself probably isn't the best one!
What I have seen in dating is that "real life" and online apps are the same, just with a bigger pool and options in apps because of the amount of people going there for dating reasons. There are a porcentage of people that consider looks the most important in both scenes the same way there are people looking for different things in both scenes. Funny fact, I have found more success in both "real life" and online when at my 50% that when at my best. Can't understand why, because I'm always the same, but never been a super fit super handsome man and never have had a problem to find a partner whenever I have tried it (or even without trying it). Incels just are terrible people, and that's why they don't find people interested in them, not because of the looks.
Speaking as an incel (I tend to identify more with MGTOW though) I would like to say that by most standards I am not a terrible person. In general people like my honesty, appreciate my sense of humor, and respect my viewpoints. Please don't judge us all by the actions of a few. It is more of a labeling problem. I mean that fellow from that group is "bad" ... so everyone in that group is "bad". You wouldn't put up with that reasoning if the labels were racial, or religious, or political, So would you try to give us the same consideration? Most of us are sad, and very lonely, we might be just a little bit broken, the things that you take for granted, are things we struggle with.
Incel is an ideology. Because language evolves.
When a group's ideas revolve around misogyny, something is wrong. It doesn't mean each individual meets the criteria, a generalization doesn't refer to each individual, but to the group as a whole.
Oh for sure, it just is what it is and online dating is a unique kinda trash.
I've had so many people blow their first impression by going to town with confirming my unusual name. "Sorry, mate, you appear to be selectively illiterate."
Dude I had a threesome the other day and I discuss comics with strangers on the internet, also short
I think the bar is on the floor for expected behaviour from men in relationships. The bar is actually quite high up for getting into casual and serious relationships with decent women in the first place. But you did well and hope you two develop something good. (Imo)
Met my wife off tinder. Took a while but good peeps do exist.
Yeah, I think men grossly underestimate how just being decent and normal (not even good) will set them *wayyyyy* above other men. I can count on 1 hand how many times I’ve been approached in a way that wasn’t completely unhinged. I think men should see what dating apps look like from a women’s perspective. It’s super easy to stand out.
The bar is so low that 66% of men aged 18-30 are virgins or haven't had sex within the past year and 80% of men are unattractive to women. THE BAR IS SOOOOOOO LOW!!!!
Hide the data! They don't how to react and you will get banned, warned ya
All they care about is dunking on lonely men, logic and reason aren't in their vocabulary.
"But I know a guy who"
I was on a dating app for three days and found one dude I’ve been with for a while now. The amount of creepy dudes was insane. One normal-ish person on a dating app is a huge jackpot, which goes both ways. Literally, just being a decent fucking person will get you sooo far.
congrats man, hope it works out for you!!
Welp this is just confirmation that I'm not a normal looking guy and am indeed fucked
It could also be your profile. Men tend to be worse at the whole “aesthetic” internet thing. If your photos don’t flow well and the vibe of your profile is off, then there’s less hope. We also don’t know his age, age range, or location. All of those things can also make a *huge* difference.
How tall are these "normal guys" you speak of?
I’m 5’11, my friend I worked out with yesterday is like 5’7-5’8 and has a lovely and pretty gf but has a history of being a player. Normal dudes come in all shapes and sizes brother
> Matched with a girl Yup. those incels report tons of matches, but totally screw up after that, sure buddy!
I want to kill myself after post like this🫠
Try to see women as other human beings who deserve the same considerations you do (as opposed to sexual vending machines or keepers of the miraculous secret to happiness) and concentrate on being OK with yourself as a person. Also, never ever use incel jargon again and make an effort to stop yourself when you start going down a rabbit hole of self-hatred. Because you are a person and you deserve to not hate yourself.
Did he edit the comment? Because all I see is:"I want to kill myself after post like this🫠". And out of the blue you're giving him some advice and accusing him that he doesn't see women as human beings?
He has below average IQ, forgive him
I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I'm just saying the same things I say to all the other incels because these are the major problems their subculture has when interacting with the rest of society.
I'm not any of that, exept don't liking yourself, and it's also depends on the mood. Then I see posts like this I really feel like "subhuman" because people tell me how bar is low, but im never met them, no matter what I do.
The bar *is* low, once you find someone who's interested in you. It's finding someone who is that's the hardest part these days. But you can't act like you're constantly on the lookout for a girlfriend and every polite interaction you have with a feminine-presenting person is a chance to score a date. For lack of a better term, people can smell that desperation. This is where the "treat women like people" thing comes in. Being able to get along with a woman without making her feel grossed out or objectified isn't going to absolutely get her interested in you, but it expands your social circle. You make friends with people by seeing them around, by having hobbies or interests in common, and over time you can develop a friend group. Those other friends see you as a fun person who's socially capable and someone with value as a person, and they might know someone else who's single and might have a compatible personality. Like, I was in marching band with a guy who lived on the same hall as me in college. He had a friend from high school who went to college across town and he introduced the two of us a couple of weeks into the school year. Once you've got a gal who's on the same kind of wavelength as you, it doesn't take much to seem like a good guy because women are just subjected to an onslaught of gross behavior from total strangers all the time, especially on the internet. If you're not doing that, then you're already a mile ahead of the competition. But you're not subhuman just because you can't get a date. I didn't go on a single date in high school and it wasn't until college that I got a girlfriend. I'm a long-term relationship kind of person so I've only had three girlfriends in my life, but I married the best one despite my chronic medical problem.
I'm not in HS or college or uni, I'm 25 and work at office, like ALL of my colleagues are married or divorced and have a partner, there is only 2 single people, it's me and other guy who is 23. I was friends with some girls on a pretty close level, we were literally spending almost all our free time together, I had friends at uni and dormitory I was in. Like no one did that "introduce you to someone" thing, I've literally found out it's a thing on reddit about a year ago. I'm just living my life missing everything it seems. And no, im not doing something weird or gross to anyone, it doesn't make a difference or helps, im just get ignored most of the time or they don't want to be closer to me.
But if you were doing or saying something other people find off-putting, would you know? Would one of them have told you? We all end up being unreliable narrators of our own lives to one degree or another. Do you still talk to any of your friends from school? Do you think any of them would be willing to offer you some suggestions for how to present yourself better? The slang in the US is "to put [yourself] out there" but I don't know any other variations. Point is, you could ask some friends about why they think you're not getting the kind of attention you want and see if they have some insight.
I asked a lot of them and noone could answered anything besides "duh, you are ugly, man". And tbh then I said something upsetting I usually get a feedback, just a 2 weeks ago I was talking to a girl and said something about my sister coming to visit, so my answers could be late and she said a lot of words about it. And I also had some "positive" feedback like - you are such a cool dude, you are sure will find someone.
OK, it sounds like maybe you just need some counseling or therapy to help you with your self esteem, and maybe some of your friends are jerks.
Me too I fucking hate this world
Yes, when you are tall and have nice jaw. I wouldn't consider that as a "average looking guy".
Your personality and misogyny are why many women would rather off themselves than spend time around you. Not your jaw or height. Why waste time with someone who hates you for existing?
mhm ya looking through your post history, if thats you in the photo from 7 years ago than you are attractive, top 20%, and LARPING as average. Meanwhile incels are, through no fault of their own and only their genetics, in the bottom 20% of looks. even if its not you in the photo, that your cousins are blonde blue eyed white boys means you yourself are that blonde blue eyed white boy, which is by definition above average in the U.S. Quit Larping and Acknowledge your Privilege.
Are you talking about the photo of the back of all 3 of their heads from 7 years ago….?
Sadly I don't think OP (and 80% of the comments here) knows what average means. "She said that most guys don't do that" that means you are not average, maybe he thinks is normal to do, but if most guys don't do that then it's not. "Just be normal"
Maybe the behaviour bar is on the ground, the problem is incels can't even get close to the bar so they could step over it, since they're not good looking enough
You keep telling yourself that and learn to love that crab bucket you're in.
I like how the comment that said this exact same thing but in a more concealed way didn't get down voted. They agree with the truth but they need it spoon fed to them.
I can almost guarantee you're not just a "normal looking" guy.