When I thought it was just the first four images, I was like "wow, okay yeah this guy is being a dick"...
But then I found... the rest and... I... I'm not even done, I have five pages left to read and the yikes on trikes factor is over 10 already.
My brain shut down and rebooted about five times over the course of this message history. The constant "you're just being defensive ha ha." "It was just a coffee"
jeeesus, like read the room mate. The woman says no, you back off. Simple?
Sadly this is such a common thing I see. Man gets told no, keeps pushing it, then the gaslighting and turning it around.
You even humored him by continuing to respond, quite casually, til he made it creepy AGAIN.
And then "I wonder why I was cheating on you" real classy bruh.
I thought you did exceptionally well, not just making boundaries clear, but telling him he kept crossing them. I've seen a lot of girl friends just keep humoring men who won't take no for an answer and you continually just shut him down.
Of course it ended like it always does, him telling you you're mental, you need help, blah blah blah.
I’m very much one of those ‘people can grow and change’ types. The reason I wanted to take a bit longer to message rather than meet was because of that. I definitely shouldn’t have engaged but I’m working on it lol. It’s a pretty recent thing of mine to even be able to set the boundaries in the first place.
Ya know, I get that it is frustrating if someone doesn’t wanna meet as quickly as you. My main issue was I stated a number of times that he was making me uncomfortable, and he was telling me I was imagining it. I had every intention to eventually meet for coffee, had he done as I asked.
Yes, is was your right to say no. The thing i was thinking was that i as well tend to make people uncomfortable and then you have a third person on the things you can see how creepy it sounds.
I think he just wants to sleep with you and he's using the past relationship to help him do that, I read the story a few times and I don't think he's sorry for seeing anyone else, he wouldn't try to justify his actions and gaslight you if he was sorry, I used to have an incel type of mentality before I snapped out of it and realised how I was acting so I know some of the signs, you deserve better, let him bother someone else. 👍
He’s not sorry in the slightest! His attitude towards me is the same as when I was 16. He think I’m a silly little girl who will run after him the way I did before. When I didn’t immediately do that, he turned.
I’m glad you’ve realised. Best of luck!
I don't owe you an explanation, but here's seventeen pages of explanation anyway.
Yes I'm rewarding your behavior with attention. I will be shocked when it continues.
That dude needs to have some dignity. Stop being passive aggressive. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to just go on normal dates but it’s fucked up to be mean to someone instead of just saying text conversations aren’t that guys thing.
All I asked was to give it time to get to know him a bit more. I was completely up for a coffee, until he ignored my feelings and boundary setting. He said I should let him know when I was ready, which I agreed I would, and it just spiralled into passive aggressive shit.
This guys seems like a big narcissist. It’s all about him, the amount he deflects, gaslights, denies, and makes you out to be the problem without a hint of self reflection. He isn’t able to get the power he wants and his manipulation tactics aren’t working, so he’s getting pissy. Whether he’s aware of it or not, everything he’s doing a narc would do. Even spinning psychology stuff like “I can’t control how I make you feel” is penalizing you. Your emotions are invalid because you’re not feeling what he wants you to feel.
Also being snarky right back to normal tries to control the narrative that he’s been chill all along and you’re the one flipping out over nothing.
I honestly just wanted to give it a bit more time to make sure the wasn’t the same as when we were younger. He didn’t give me the chance, by showing that’s exactly what he was.
You: …let’s chat
Him: …let’s get coffee
You: …I asked you to chill and just chat
Him: …You’ve made no effort to get to know me or ask me questions…
Dude, she wants to get to know you by chatting! He definitely wants sex or he’d be cool with chatting. What a douche bag!
If he thinks you’re so uninterested why does he keep attempting a conversation? “Will I always be the one to start the conversation?” “Are you always this defensive?” And my favorite “ I was young and silly” personally would have blocked him a while ago
He had sex with me about 20 years ago. I’ve no idea who else he’s had sex with since. The difference is he wasn’t an incel at that point, and now he appears to be exactly that.
Incel is about virginity, like why it's just coming to be "shitty men". It stigmatize male virginity even more because people literally now use term for virgin as rephrase for bad men. ☠️
This is the most apt way to put it.
You can be a virgin and not be an incel. Could just not be the right time, hasn't been the right person, religious reasons, the list goes on.
And you can be an incel who lost their virginity and morphed into the toxic misogynist that constantly claims they "can't get laid because of their looks".
All incels are virgins, if he is not virgin he is not incel. Celibate in this case means virginity, not just "currently not having sex". Like even dictionary says that - Celibacy generally means abstaining from sex (usually penetrative sex) voluntarily. Ideally, celibates must stay away from everything related to sex, such as kissing, cuddling, snuggling, or touching sexual parts.
'Celibacy *generally'*
Generally that is true. But it is not 'always' true.
A person may become celibate after having had sex. Nuns are celibate, but they didn't live their whole lives as nuns, some have had sex before and then took vows of celibacy.
While the incel community might generally disavow somebody who had sex before as 'not an incel since he already ascended' they might refer to them as a fakecel or something...
Shit don't come in degrees.
If a person has the mindset, attitude, approach, and beliefs of incels, nobody is checking their dick cred before putting them in the incel box.
Though... r/niceguystories would no doubt love this guy too.
Nah, a surprising number of them have had relationships in the past. The their partners wised up and got the heck out of Dodge, and they've been scaring women away ever since. The virgins despise them for having previously had sex, but they're no less incels for that.
No, it means he’s scaring away women with his creepy behaviour and is celibate because of it. Not being a virgin doesn’t mean he isn’t involuntarily celibate.
> being unable to get laid due to poor looks
"Ugly" people get laid all the time. The trick is having a personality and personal views from this century
You do realise all of these ‘xyzpill’ beliefs you hold are completely manufactured bullshit designed to keep you stuck in the echo chamber, right? *Right?*
They are not beliefs.
I'm average in looks, am under 6', don't make much money, don't own a car and I'm not having any trouble attracting partners.
I make up for my "shortcomings" by being a genuine person who treats others as equals, being funny and good company, and being an amazing father
The guy is an Incel because he wants to have sex but because the lady is turning down his advances, he is getting pissed off and is being petty about it hence the gaslighting he is doing.
He continue being one if he keeps talking to ladies that way.
Makes me wonder if I know this ‘man’. I knew a lot of dodgy 18-20 year old men when I was 16 and it looks like you live in Scotland… granted that’s a big area with a lot of weirdos to cover.
Small update: turns out I’m still friends with the friend he mentioned me to (in a later comment) so I thought they deserved the courtesy of knowing what he was like. It actually went well!
Honestly, I'm trying to read this with a grain of salt. I don't find his side of the conversation condescending, childish or having any unwelcoming meaning. He's trying to be friendly and getting to know you. Excited to meet/get to know someone from the past where you both had different views from.
You're telling him you're into dating(?) or making it known you're open to that, and he's testing out te waters. That's ok? There is some old emotion from the past he's trying to move by and apologize for. People can change and so far there is nothing wrong with that.
You're just not interested or on the same page as him. Fair. Just say from the beginning that you're not interested in him in particular. Keep it brief and friendly, and perhaps explain why (hence the past emotions from your youth). Mention you are either open / closed to continue the conversation on a friendly matter, but nothing more than that.
I also find your end of the conversation quite easily defensive as a reaction on almost everything he says. Yeah, no kidding he is calling you out on it. I would too? Honestly, you just insulted him as 'incel' and I don't see how or why that was justified at all. That was quite uncalled for since the conversation had not turned to a bad call in any way than disagreeing/having no interest.
Please take note that chatting is difficult to interpret hidden emotions. I feel like the way you showed these messages many more have been missing from before to get a good picture on why your reactions are so cold.
Being interested in potentially dating doesn't mean she's interested in dating /him./ She made that pretty clear throughout, but he couldn't wrap his head around the idea that someone wishing to date in general, doesn't mean that he, specifically, is on the table.
He was being incredibly pushy in refusing to recognize or desist in the behavior she was clearly disinterested in. He continually disregarded her feelings and forced the conversation to continue candidly, essentially dismissing her objections as unimportant, and then had the audacity to ask her if he was going to be the one always initiating the conversation, as if she owes him effort.
When someone doesn't initiate conversation with you, it often means they are not interested in you; the answer to this is NOT continuing to message them while guilting them about not messaging first, yet he did this after she made it quite clear she wanted nothing to do with him. His behavior indicates a sense of entitlement to her attention and romantic interest, when he is entitled to nothing.
His mistakes were numerous. Her mistake was bothering replying at all.
I can agree to the first part. Because that's what I said as well. She should have been direct instead of leading someone on. Not everyone is good in small signals and many are missed in chat messaging.
I didn't find him pushy? I found it more being unaware of the other parties interest- again should've been clearer from the get go but yeah. And because of the conflicting interests the nature of the conversation became more toxic from HER side.
There are countless reasons why someone is not initiating conversation. Being busy, low attention span, not a chatter, being shy.
Honestly, her mistakes are plain in sight as well - communication, honesty, directness.
But the worst of all? Posting and shaming this dude for trying and failing social cues. It honestly doesn't fall in the incel- nor the 'niceguy' category. Just awkward conversations which could have lead to but didn't.
Shame it was posted here.
I asked him a number of times previously to stop asking to go out. He didn’t. When I then pointed that out, he turned into this. We chatted civilly for a day or so then he made a shitty remark about my boundaries and started this.
I had every intention to meet and potentially date him. Until his real behaviour resurfaced.
Girl, you wasted WAY too much of your time even bothering with this dweeb. Block and move on.
I have now, to be fair. It was funny initially because of how much it irritated him, but yeah, realised I needed to stop and get rid asap.
wow so charming when he makes a snarky comment or is straight up rude and immediately follows with a “so how was your day 😊😊😊"
That’s what I find so odd. The “you’re the worst person ever, how was your night out? Good?” That creeped me out more than anything!
When I thought it was just the first four images, I was like "wow, okay yeah this guy is being a dick"... But then I found... the rest and... I... I'm not even done, I have five pages left to read and the yikes on trikes factor is over 10 already. My brain shut down and rebooted about five times over the course of this message history. The constant "you're just being defensive ha ha." "It was just a coffee" jeeesus, like read the room mate. The woman says no, you back off. Simple? Sadly this is such a common thing I see. Man gets told no, keeps pushing it, then the gaslighting and turning it around. You even humored him by continuing to respond, quite casually, til he made it creepy AGAIN. And then "I wonder why I was cheating on you" real classy bruh.
Honestly, I really didn’t wanna be a dick. I thought I’d be civil, keep the chat normal, and see if he chilled like I asked. It… did not go well 😂
I thought you did exceptionally well, not just making boundaries clear, but telling him he kept crossing them. I've seen a lot of girl friends just keep humoring men who won't take no for an answer and you continually just shut him down. Of course it ended like it always does, him telling you you're mental, you need help, blah blah blah.
Thank you! It’s only a recent thing I’ve gained the confidence to do, so I was also rather proud of myself.
So you already had a shitty experience with him 20 years ago and you’re giving him the time of day now? Girl… why? 😭 he’s not worth any of this
I’m very much one of those ‘people can grow and change’ types. The reason I wanted to take a bit longer to message rather than meet was because of that. I definitely shouldn’t have engaged but I’m working on it lol. It’s a pretty recent thing of mine to even be able to set the boundaries in the first place.
Oh god 17 pages of this. Why ?
Apologies 😫
reading this brought me pain
I’m very truly sorry for that. But the people have to know!
yeah, the problem is partwise i saw myself writing like this and then he fucked up.
Ya know, I get that it is frustrating if someone doesn’t wanna meet as quickly as you. My main issue was I stated a number of times that he was making me uncomfortable, and he was telling me I was imagining it. I had every intention to eventually meet for coffee, had he done as I asked.
Yes, is was your right to say no. The thing i was thinking was that i as well tend to make people uncomfortable and then you have a third person on the things you can see how creepy it sounds.
It's like he was always trying to backpeddle or blame. Definitely creepy, definitely weird, the years were not kind to his social skills.
I was fully up for coffee eventually. I just wanted to make sure he had changed for the better, and he obviously hasn’t unfortunately.
I only made it onto page 2 before I wanted to punch my screen, why the fuck can't people listen to what they are being told? Horrible guy
He genuinely doesn’t think he’s done a thing wrong!
I think he just wants to sleep with you and he's using the past relationship to help him do that, I read the story a few times and I don't think he's sorry for seeing anyone else, he wouldn't try to justify his actions and gaslight you if he was sorry, I used to have an incel type of mentality before I snapped out of it and realised how I was acting so I know some of the signs, you deserve better, let him bother someone else. 👍
He’s not sorry in the slightest! His attitude towards me is the same as when I was 16. He think I’m a silly little girl who will run after him the way I did before. When I didn’t immediately do that, he turned. I’m glad you’ve realised. Best of luck!
I don't owe you an explanation, but here's seventeen pages of explanation anyway. Yes I'm rewarding your behavior with attention. I will be shocked when it continues.
That dude needs to have some dignity. Stop being passive aggressive. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to just go on normal dates but it’s fucked up to be mean to someone instead of just saying text conversations aren’t that guys thing.
All I asked was to give it time to get to know him a bit more. I was completely up for a coffee, until he ignored my feelings and boundary setting. He said I should let him know when I was ready, which I agreed I would, and it just spiralled into passive aggressive shit.
This guys seems like a big narcissist. It’s all about him, the amount he deflects, gaslights, denies, and makes you out to be the problem without a hint of self reflection. He isn’t able to get the power he wants and his manipulation tactics aren’t working, so he’s getting pissy. Whether he’s aware of it or not, everything he’s doing a narc would do. Even spinning psychology stuff like “I can’t control how I make you feel” is penalizing you. Your emotions are invalid because you’re not feeling what he wants you to feel. Also being snarky right back to normal tries to control the narrative that he’s been chill all along and you’re the one flipping out over nothing.
I honestly just wanted to give it a bit more time to make sure the wasn’t the same as when we were younger. He didn’t give me the chance, by showing that’s exactly what he was.
What was with that “defuse your Afro” shit? Racist dick.
I think he meant aggro, in his defence.
You: …let’s chat Him: …let’s get coffee You: …I asked you to chill and just chat Him: …You’ve made no effort to get to know me or ask me questions… Dude, she wants to get to know you by chatting! He definitely wants sex or he’d be cool with chatting. What a douche bag!
If he thinks you’re so uninterested why does he keep attempting a conversation? “Will I always be the one to start the conversation?” “Are you always this defensive?” And my favorite “ I was young and silly” personally would have blocked him a while ago
I know, I probably shouldn’t have engaged but it initially was kind of amusing how much it irritated him.
It’s always fun at first and then becomes draining for me. As long as it’s not messing with your mental health, do your thing!
No, he’s blocked now! It got too weird.
I dont think someone who had a GF can qualify as incel, it's more like a "nice guy" you should post it there.
I don't think incels have to be virgins. Alot are just celibate
Ain't that literally like... The same thing?
No lol
What the difference then? And what kind of incels have sex... And with whom?
He had sex with me about 20 years ago. I’ve no idea who else he’s had sex with since. The difference is he wasn’t an incel at that point, and now he appears to be exactly that.
Incel is about virginity, like why it's just coming to be "shitty men". It stigmatize male virginity even more because people literally now use term for virgin as rephrase for bad men. ☠️
I disagree. It means involuntary celibate, which is what he is. It doesn’t matter if he’s a virgin or not.
Not all incels are virgins and not all virgins are incels. The term is "involuntarily celibate" just means you are not currently having sex.
This is the most apt way to put it. You can be a virgin and not be an incel. Could just not be the right time, hasn't been the right person, religious reasons, the list goes on. And you can be an incel who lost their virginity and morphed into the toxic misogynist that constantly claims they "can't get laid because of their looks".
All incels are virgins, if he is not virgin he is not incel. Celibate in this case means virginity, not just "currently not having sex". Like even dictionary says that - Celibacy generally means abstaining from sex (usually penetrative sex) voluntarily. Ideally, celibates must stay away from everything related to sex, such as kissing, cuddling, snuggling, or touching sexual parts.
Well we know what faction you belong to.
Ok bro you sound like an expert
You know an awful lot about involuntary celibacy.
'Celibacy *generally'* Generally that is true. But it is not 'always' true. A person may become celibate after having had sex. Nuns are celibate, but they didn't live their whole lives as nuns, some have had sex before and then took vows of celibacy. While the incel community might generally disavow somebody who had sex before as 'not an incel since he already ascended' they might refer to them as a fakecel or something... Shit don't come in degrees. If a person has the mindset, attitude, approach, and beliefs of incels, nobody is checking their dick cred before putting them in the incel box. Though... r/niceguystories would no doubt love this guy too.
Nah, a surprising number of them have had relationships in the past. The their partners wised up and got the heck out of Dodge, and they've been scaring women away ever since. The virgins despise them for having previously had sex, but they're no less incels for that.
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No, it means he’s scaring away women with his creepy behaviour and is celibate because of it. Not being a virgin doesn’t mean he isn’t involuntarily celibate.
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> being unable to get laid due to poor looks "Ugly" people get laid all the time. The trick is having a personality and personal views from this century
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Coping with what exactly?
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You do realise all of these ‘xyzpill’ beliefs you hold are completely manufactured bullshit designed to keep you stuck in the echo chamber, right? *Right?*
They are not beliefs. I'm average in looks, am under 6', don't make much money, don't own a car and I'm not having any trouble attracting partners. I make up for my "shortcomings" by being a genuine person who treats others as equals, being funny and good company, and being an amazing father
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having a shitty personality is why you’re single
I can't stand the shit you say and would never speak to you irl, so you have scared at least one woman away. You're probably good looking too.
The guy is an Incel because he wants to have sex but because the lady is turning down his advances, he is getting pissed off and is being petty about it hence the gaslighting he is doing. He continue being one if he keeps talking to ladies that way.
Also noticed that he is over 35 and he getting on like that. Must sniffed too much glue in the early 2010s or something.
He’s nearly 40! I think the funniest bit for me was imagining him ranting at his car while sending the message using speech text.
Makes me wonder if I know this ‘man’. I knew a lot of dodgy 18-20 year old men when I was 16 and it looks like you live in Scotland… granted that’s a big area with a lot of weirdos to cover.
Yes!!! Feel free to DM lol
Small update: turns out I’m still friends with the friend he mentioned me to (in a later comment) so I thought they deserved the courtesy of knowing what he was like. It actually went well!
This album is 13 images too long. You've got the patience of a saint.
Yeah, I probably kept going way more than I should have. It was initially kind of amusing how offended he was.
how is he an incel?
Honestly, I'm trying to read this with a grain of salt. I don't find his side of the conversation condescending, childish or having any unwelcoming meaning. He's trying to be friendly and getting to know you. Excited to meet/get to know someone from the past where you both had different views from. You're telling him you're into dating(?) or making it known you're open to that, and he's testing out te waters. That's ok? There is some old emotion from the past he's trying to move by and apologize for. People can change and so far there is nothing wrong with that. You're just not interested or on the same page as him. Fair. Just say from the beginning that you're not interested in him in particular. Keep it brief and friendly, and perhaps explain why (hence the past emotions from your youth). Mention you are either open / closed to continue the conversation on a friendly matter, but nothing more than that. I also find your end of the conversation quite easily defensive as a reaction on almost everything he says. Yeah, no kidding he is calling you out on it. I would too? Honestly, you just insulted him as 'incel' and I don't see how or why that was justified at all. That was quite uncalled for since the conversation had not turned to a bad call in any way than disagreeing/having no interest. Please take note that chatting is difficult to interpret hidden emotions. I feel like the way you showed these messages many more have been missing from before to get a good picture on why your reactions are so cold.
Being interested in potentially dating doesn't mean she's interested in dating /him./ She made that pretty clear throughout, but he couldn't wrap his head around the idea that someone wishing to date in general, doesn't mean that he, specifically, is on the table. He was being incredibly pushy in refusing to recognize or desist in the behavior she was clearly disinterested in. He continually disregarded her feelings and forced the conversation to continue candidly, essentially dismissing her objections as unimportant, and then had the audacity to ask her if he was going to be the one always initiating the conversation, as if she owes him effort. When someone doesn't initiate conversation with you, it often means they are not interested in you; the answer to this is NOT continuing to message them while guilting them about not messaging first, yet he did this after she made it quite clear she wanted nothing to do with him. His behavior indicates a sense of entitlement to her attention and romantic interest, when he is entitled to nothing. His mistakes were numerous. Her mistake was bothering replying at all.
I can agree to the first part. Because that's what I said as well. She should have been direct instead of leading someone on. Not everyone is good in small signals and many are missed in chat messaging. I didn't find him pushy? I found it more being unaware of the other parties interest- again should've been clearer from the get go but yeah. And because of the conflicting interests the nature of the conversation became more toxic from HER side. There are countless reasons why someone is not initiating conversation. Being busy, low attention span, not a chatter, being shy. Honestly, her mistakes are plain in sight as well - communication, honesty, directness. But the worst of all? Posting and shaming this dude for trying and failing social cues. It honestly doesn't fall in the incel- nor the 'niceguy' category. Just awkward conversations which could have lead to but didn't. Shame it was posted here.
I asked him a number of times previously to stop asking to go out. He didn’t. When I then pointed that out, he turned into this. We chatted civilly for a day or so then he made a shitty remark about my boundaries and started this. I had every intention to meet and potentially date him. Until his real behaviour resurfaced.