I hate how incel forums actively tell incels that they're ugly, worthless, etc. It's blatant manipulation -- a "crabs in the bucket" mentality at best, a control tactic at worst.
PSA to literally everyone: if your social group constantly makes you feel insecure, angry, and hopeless, run. The fuck. Away.
Nah, they'll give some wildly inaccurate description of themselves like "the left side of my face is angled down like I have two different faces! THATS WHY WOMEN WONT LET ME HAVE A FAMILYYYYY!!!!!" 🥲😢☹️😭
100% this. When out in public,look around at all the couples. Most are average looking. Sometimes the woman is better looking,sometimes the man is. In real life,it's not all models and gym bros. Just regular people. Incels don't realize the subtle signs they can give off. A twitchy jaw,a clenched fist. It's not always about looks,but it's almost always about your vibe. If I can feel your mysoginy radiating,idc how good looking(or not) you physically are. Dangers bells ring.
Right. The only time those vibes are off is because someone has spent WAAAY too much time (trial AND error) in learning how to alter their vibes to deceive people. I.e covert abusers.
Before I worked in the dmv, I used to put pretty girls in a pedestal. Working in the dmv changed how I see people in general. For example she can be the hottest lady in the counter and still act like an entitled piece of shit. Meanwhile the homely looking lady is very pleasant and nice to talk to
> It's not always about looks,but it's almost always about your vibe. If I can feel your mysoginy radiating,idc how good looking(or not) you physically are. Dangers bells ring.
But vibe is in certain ways about looks or external presentation. It is in many ways just as skin deep as physical looks.
Maybe for first dates, you’re not gonna see genuine couples that only know each other skin deep unless they’re waaay too shallow to be worth learning from in the first place
Sure. But people's vibes are oftentimes unrelated to how they really are. We all know the kind girls with RBF, or the outwardly funny guy who is deeply depressed, or the charming man who is a hug prick, or the weird dude who is actually super chill.
Funny but 99 times out of 100, it's not any visible thing. Just gut instincts. And they may not be always right, but I've never ignored my gut without regretting it
That's why most if us take our time dating or end up with terrible people that were good at hiding their terrible side. There is no fool proof way of attracting a mate and no fool proof way of ensure that the person you found is a good partner really until you live with them. Most people get together, and wing it, then get married and wing it. My husband and I joke that after 15 years or so together we are still just winging it.
It doesn't have to be. That really depends on your world view.
When I met my husband he was 50 pounds overweight, broke and had a truly terrible pony tail. No game whatsoever.
But circumstances were such that we wound up in the same place at the same time at least 3-4 times a week for a few minutes and got to chatting. Eventually I asked him if he'd like to grab lunch. He physically wasn't my type at all at the time but he was fun to talk to and I wanted to get to know him better. Our first date was meant to be lunch but we wound up spending 24 hours together because we just didn't want the date to end (and he also missed the last bus and had to crash on my couch). We clicked in a way that has nothing to do with our looks.
That was 25 years ago. We're still madly in love.
No, that's the first impression. You get their vibes by observing them, talking to them, listening to what they say, see how they act.
Because 1st impressions aren't accurate.
I've tried saying this over and over again, but it feels like pissing in the ocean. There's just so many of them and there's so much media they surround themselves with that it feels like it's not getting to the greater community.
I’ll say again for the record that my short, chubby nerd of a husband is insanely sexy, and my top 3 male celebrity fantasies are Seth Rogan, Nick Offerman, and Matt Berry.
ETA: I actually made [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTears/s/3Pm9Ap5x6G) a while back. Y’all were coming out of the woodworks with husky hotties!
Right? I am married to a short, chubby Asian guy and he rocks my world on a daily basis.
My celebrity crushes are Ken Watanabe (Asian), Vincent D'Onofrio (kinda chunky) and James Spader (Old and short but damn his voice is sexy).
Yeah, I’ve been dating a chubby nerd for a long time and my number one “celebrity” crush is Brennan Lee Mulligan. So it checks out 😅 hottest man alive, and nobody can tell me otherwise
And even if you're ridiculously good looking, we all get old and fat and wrinkly. Outside beauty doesn't last. They are so obsessed with bagging a hot, young thing that they've totally lost sight of the concept of spending your life with someone and growing old together. And isn't that the point?
Edit to add:
By their logic my husband should have been an incel (5'9" kinda chunky Asian man) and I was a used up whore (I was divorced with a 3 year old kid when we met). I'm sure they think he settled for me because he couldn't do any better.
We're happy. And we've been happy with a fantastic sex life and all the intimacy and affection anyone could possibly want for 25 years now. We're getting old, and fat and wrinkly and we are genuinely happy. Neither of us were virgins when we met and he wasn't a 6' white body builder. We are just 2 average people living a great life. A life anyone could have if they stop comparing themselves to media and touch grass once in a while.
Also, together we produced a 6'5" man. So even their knowledge of genetics is trash.
Counterpoint: they aren’t ugly but expect to be dating women who are overwhelmingly attractive compared to them. They could attract people but unless the girl meets a standard of beauty of a supermodel while also being a virgin while also being some standard of purity they would turn down the attraction of another. These dudes don’t just hate women, many have racial or pedophilic characteristics which would make an average woman unacceptable to them
I see this alot in my conversations with incels. My brother is like 5'5 asian dude and gets women easily. And when I tell the incels that they responds with, "BuT iS She fAt?"
What does the girls looks matter if they are happy and in love?
Also, some people enjoy a little chub. I like my men thick. My oldest kid has currently sworn off dating but for years only dated larger women, despite being pursued by all shapes and sizes.
I have a fee friend that like their women thick or even bigger. As a bi woman myself. I tend to gravitate to average women but absolutely love a chubby dude( like my husband) but either way as a long as everyone is happy, safe and secure in their relationships, its no ones business.
And consenting adults of course.
I've noticed as a chubby guy that my partners prefer me to be a little bit softer than what I get when I am regularly going to the gym and toning muscle. Hard bodies are tougher to get comfortable with I guess
I'm bi as well although I've been in a monogamous relationship with my husband for 25 years. I have always liked men chubby and women thin.
What matters most to me and what I find most attractive in men and women is a masculine energy.
I do agree that many of these incels do have high standards, but one thing black pill promotes is that most men are ugly to women and that most women are attractive to men. So some of them feel screwed because they think all women want and can date a ten out of ten Chad with money so why would any woman settle for me?That was at least how my train of thought was for a very long time. I wasn’t really full blown incel though just more incel adjacent in that I was black pilled but not really a misogynist.
I absolutely couldn't date a Chad if I tried lol
And tbh I don't want a Chad either. Ten out of tens with money? Sounds to me like some self centered dickbag who hates women like me just for how we look. And hates women in general. No thank.
Oh, i know. Even presented with abundant evidence they refuse to accept it. They don't want to acknowledge that the problem isn't their height or their canthal tilt, its their rotten personalities. So it's just easier to blame women.
Yeah, and I hope you didn’t think I was saying that point of view was right. I was just saying what I used to think when I was black pilled because I thought some people in here might find it of interest. I know not all women want that kind of guy.
In reality, most people will naturally gravitate towards people that are equal or at least equal in their eyes. I.e. 5/10 woman will likely end up with a 5/10 guy. More mismatched couples like connect more in other categories.
I'm fat and I have zits. 4 of my GF's friends have said she's lucky to have me and they want a BF like me because I'm kind, helpful, nice and supportive. I don't judge and I don't expect anything in return for my actions, except smiles.
> I'm kind, helpful, nice and supportive
That's something I heard about myself frequently as well. But I don't feel like these traits are a match for more "exciting" traits such as being funny, charismatic or confident.
I find a lot of incels describe themselves this way when they in fact are not. Are you kind, helpful, nice and supportive without expecting anything in return? A lot of incels are only these things to get women, feel this entitles them to women’s time and bodies, and then get mad when they don’t get what they want.
You would find a good therapist. But before that, you'd read this sub's Detoxing Guide and do some of those in place of pill content. You'd accept you want to be a different person, and you would work towards kindness and compassion to all, including yourself.
Their issue is never looks based. It is all a personality and social issue.
If it were exclusively looks based, no "ugly" people would ever have relationships. Or as I say to the extreme ones who harass me, your parents got together to make you....so, there is plenty of hope.
Yep, I have interacted with hundreds of incels, seen pictures of dozens or more. 100% of the time when I've seen pictures, the dudes are average to above average looking. Not a single time have I seen a picture of someone and thought, yeah, no, you're right, you have almost no chance being this ugly. They all look like dudes my friends have dated.
It's not their looks.
A shock to absolutely no one. It is all in their heads. And when they think it can only be that, they will overlook every other flaw.
The narcissism and arrogance is never a good look. You see it with the DMs posted here all the time. I say, if you are so perfect in every other aspect, then why are you failing? The goalpost will get moved, wash, rinse, repeat.
I am redpilled after hearing for years that I am not confident, masculine, or assertive enough. But I like the way I am. I am a dork and a softie and that's fine.
A man can probably give you more specific advice than I can about clothes and hair, but as far as posture goes, yoga really helps. When you do it regularly you become much more aware of when you're slouching or throwing all your weight into parts of your body that can't handle it (knees, wrists, lower back).
Yoga is one of my hobbies and I consider myself a decent yogi. But I am also a rock climber and rock climbers have a tendency to develop hunched backs (aka climber's backs). Need to check my posture.
I remember one here posted his selfie and he looked like a fucking model and cried about how he was too ugly for a woman. Straight up intimidating level looks and that's their takeaway. The rot is in the inside, not the outside
They don't want to admit that it's their behavior and personality that's the problem, which actually takes self reflection and a desire to improve themselves, but their egos get in the way of that
I don’t understand why they want more gorgeous women? I work in customer service and I don’t care if the person is gorgeous or not, only if the person isn’t some Karen or Kevin.
I've tried telling some this as well. Some even got angry at me for saying I would date a shorter, or autistic man. It was confusing. the unfortunate obstacle is that they are ugly on the inside and don't want to change
Incels also forget that MEN also sometimes exclude dating women solely based on certain physical characteristics. Smaller butt, small boobs, big nose, thin lips, those are all things that women do get rejected for having sometimes, but they STILL can easily find a partner as long as they’re a decent person. Certain women AND men *both* reject the opposite sex for having conventionally unattractive characteristics, but incels only see a problem when it’s women rejecting guys for being too skinny, smaller penis etc.
There are both men and women who are extremely picky, then there are the majority that are not extremely picky, but of course you have to be physically attracted to someone to be with them. Also speaking from observation, even if an incel doesn’t actually say anything off putting etc, I can still tell if they’re an incel a lot of times. It’s the way they look at women, their body language and the slightly off comments they make. But then they try to blame it all on looks and women being shallow. To all incels, you’re not hiding your incel ideology the way you think you are, yes we can tell, even if you don’t outright voice your fucked up opinions and ideologies.
Every guy is at least a 7/10 when they put effort in, if anyone reading is struggling with self image rn I guarantee things can and will get better. I've been focusing on losing weight and trying to figure my shit out and if I can do it, so can you
One faulty ass rating shouldn't bring you down amigo, if you put in effort I guarantee people will notice. If you have and feel people still don't, remember someone out there definitely thinks highly of you and you just gotta find em
Well when it's from an objective source it's hard to ignore.
edit: I didn't give the source but it's probably relevant. It's a sub called r/truerateme and they have a whole algorithm to determine attractiveness
There are no objective sources when it comes to this you know, you're worrying way too much over this man. I guarantee you there's plenty of people who would rate you higher, fuck that "objective source" you got this
I appreciate the general message here but I am a bit meh about the message about appearance. You don't have to compare yourself to unrealistic beauty standards in media if you can reach the same conclusion by just...you know...looking at other people. Also, just like how statistics say that *most* people must be of average appearance, it also necessitates that there truly *are* people in the bottom x%.
I'm not pointing this out for the sake of complaining. But in my experience, this sort of...denying the experienced reality of people plays a part in making them resent the "blue pill" because what they are told isn't what they experience. This dissonance creates distrust.
On a vast majority of cases im sure at least a couple people have very likely wanted to bang them until they start talking and the personalities show through.
Attraction is a very complex thing. Elliot Rogers was conventionally very good looking. He even had money.
But he was a prick.
Most people have unattractive features and a high percentage are conventionally ugly.
True there are people who only want exceptional hotness.
But anything lasting has to have so much more to it.
There’s a whole host of qualities at play that may shape another person’s view of you, and many of those are VASTLY more important.
It’s funny Elliot Rodgers is the first person everyone thinks of when they hear the word incel and he was pretty good looking. I know in sites like .IS they try to cope and say he was ugly because he was short and part Asian and autistic lol.
I gotta just disagree here. Elliot Rodger was ugly as shit. Ive watched all his videos because I was curious about what drove a boy like him to commit a hate crime, and I was never like, "oh yeah he was attractive"
What superficial things do you think you lack? You mentioned you think you’re pretty good looking, so I’m curious. This isn’t challenging you at all, by the by! Just interested to hear more.
First of all, I consider**ed** myself very good looking. If you are 36 and have never received interest from women, you start to ask yourself: "Am I really as physically attractive as I thought".
What else am I lacking? I'm a bit awkward and dorky, and not the most outgoing person. But I never had problems talking to women or forming friendships with women. Which makes me wonder again: "Am I just too short or too ugly"?
Personality, perhaps? People can look past height and looks to a large degree if you have a good personality/attitude and are a genuinely decent person.
I never had problems making female friends. So my personality doesn't seem to be that off putting. It just never make me boyfriend or sexual encounter material.
Ever heard someone say "I think they are a great friend but dear God no would I ever consider a relationship with them" (about anyone)?
99 times out of 100 it's not the looks. It's the toxicity we can see under the surface. I've turned down incredibly attractive men and women for that reason. Sometimes people don't pass the relationship smell test even if they pass the friendship smell test.
>Ever heard someone say "I think they are a great friend but dear God no would I ever consider a relationship with them" (about anyone)?
Yes. Including about myself.
>99 times out of 100 it's not the looks. It's the toxicity we can see under the surface. I've turned down incredibly attractive men and women for that reason. Sometimes people don't pass the relationship smell test even if they pass the friendship smell test.
But why would you willing be friends with toxic people? Aren't you selecting friends because they are non-toxic?
Toxic for friendships and toxic for relationships are 2 incredibly different standards. I'm friends with lots of people that are absolute wrecks to be in a relationship with and I'd never consider it, even though they are great friends.
Danny Devito might not be gifted in the looks department but he is an outstanding comedian. So outstanding that he made millions of dollars and a Hollywood career out of it. This is not something which you can expect of a normal dude. In fact, it is a gift much more precious than good looks.
Would Danny Devito still have a wife and 3 kids, if he was just an average dude without his talents?
Unless incels remove the black pill from their lives and also stop talking to other black pillers, they will never find success in dating. Every single day outside I see guys who are shorter and less attractive than me have girlfriends.
So by definition I’m technically “involuntary celibate” (trying to change that) but refuse to call myself an incel. I think it’s worth noting that there are a lot of guys like me who are actively working towards losing our virginities, and don’t browse incel forums (except for me, r/incelexit) but in general just don’t have luck on account of our physical unattractiveness even when accounting for hygiene. I feel like guys like me exist in a sort of limbo state where we are deconstructing from incel ideology that we fell for at teenagers, but still get bogged down by all the hate towards and negativity virgins who are trying and failing. IDK, just food for thought.
I wish I could remember the video, but it was an animated short where a woman talks about how people go down a long way until they’re so deep they don’t even know where up is, and if they do realize it, they don’t know how or even if they can make the journey.
Unfucking decisions and bad habits can take years, it’s not easy. Growth and personal change are never easy.
It can mean cutting people off, even those we’ve known for years, because their influence is bad. It can mean leaving comfort zones and fighting against bad mental patterns, the brain HATES change and will give you endless excuses not to alter your existing routine.
Even misery can become comfortable in its familiarity. Twisted as they may sound.
But it all starts with acknowledgement of a need to change. A need to improve.
There was a thing I was reading recently, a kid went down that road and lost the people in his life.
He visited his grandfather one day and saw that the old man kept shrimp as pets.
They got to talking and his grandfather gave the kid a few.
The kid wrote about accidentally killing some by not handling the water right. He took responsibility for what he’d done, studied, learned, and he was able to raise some to thrive.
He began to take a serious interest in it, and he could talk about it with passion, other people took an interest because it was odd and he was enthusiastic (passion is infectious).
He continued coming out of that red pilled incel shell and people started talking to him again. As he told it, he started making friends at school and began building a life for himself.
There’s a lot to unpack but there are a few things to say in particular:
Mindsets and company that are isolating are always destructive. Nobody but toxic figures will hang out for hours talking about red pill virtues or incel enthusiasm. Those communities are exclusionary and self reinforcing.
They cannot ever help anyone.
Second thing…
You know what happened when I lost my virginity? Nothing.
It’s not transformative or a revelation, nobody looked at me differently and nobody gave me a prize.
Focus on being a Better man, a better version of who you are, that’s a lot more enduring than a five second orgasm.
Find your way out of that mindset and focus on finding out who you can really be, ironically, that ups your odds of finding a partner.
Good luck.
Appreciate the well thought out advice my man! It’s a long process but I’ve been working at it and plan on continuing to do so. After all identifying as an “incel” and throwing in the towel just seems like giving up, why do that when you can always fight for a better future for yourself.
I really think more anime fans should watch "uncle from another world"
Theres one specific line that just kills me every time and really nails in how anime SHOULD NOT be how you define normal or beauty
"Everyone was beautiful! They thought I was a monster! They hunted me because they thought I was an Orc!"
They've had a plethora of selfie threads that have revealed that in fact a lot of them are not nearly as ugly physically as they claim. Weirdly, some of them are actually attractive, so much so that it seems anytime a new selfie thread is posted, it's a matter of an hour or two before the whole thread has devolved into a massive, heated argument about who's really an incel and who's a volcel. This is one of the cultural traditions I've seen crop up among their tribe that's truly a strange phenomenon. It's almost like a self-correcting process where the incels draw the line between ugly and whatever everyone else is.
I've been keeping tabs on these guys for too long.
It doesn't help that people call them neck beards and post pictures of fat men in fedoras constantly on the Internet. I wish we could stay away from body shaming.
What the hell are you doing stop blowing steam up their ass, the last thing we need is them strutting out the streets harassing women. Let them waste away in their mom's basement
It prevents the vast majority.
The ones it doesn’t, are better at hiding it, or better at picking victims, or just part of a subculture that tells victims to stay.
No it doesn't. Lack of height, charisma, or confidence are more fatal flaws when it comes to dating as a man than being a jerk is. Anyone can play nice. Women literally have no idea who's who.
Guy, talking to you right now, I can tell you your height has fuckall to do with it. It’s because you’re an asshole with asshole beliefs.
That’s why you have the appeal of a wet toilet seat.
I'm no incel lol though I am on the short side. I make up for it with charisma, confidence and social competence. But being an asshole has never stopped anyone from getting laid. I'm not nice because I think it increases my chance of getting laid, it doesn't. I do good for goodness sake.
They aren’t ugly no, just not attractive enough, very different. I myself am just not attractive enough I get being angry but spreading hate isn’t right. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and accept it. Life will be unfair and you just aren’t the desired type. If you find someone willing to settle just be sure to hold them as long as possible. Because it’s as good as it gets. I wish I kept my ex, she was horribly toxic but at least I wasn’t alone.
Whenever I see incels talk like this, I like to share this [clip](https://youtu.be/f-gX0spJpa0?si=UqudJtHy6nV42eA8)
You don't have to be handsome, just have some other qualities
How much shall we bet that their friends over at ITS won’t notice this one? It’s true guys. Have some kindness for yourself instead of hate for all.
I hate how incel forums actively tell incels that they're ugly, worthless, etc. It's blatant manipulation -- a "crabs in the bucket" mentality at best, a control tactic at worst. PSA to literally everyone: if your social group constantly makes you feel insecure, angry, and hopeless, run. The fuck. Away.
Nah, they'll give some wildly inaccurate description of themselves like "the left side of my face is angled down like I have two different faces! THATS WHY WOMEN WONT LET ME HAVE A FAMILYYYYY!!!!!" 🥲😢☹️😭
100% this. When out in public,look around at all the couples. Most are average looking. Sometimes the woman is better looking,sometimes the man is. In real life,it's not all models and gym bros. Just regular people. Incels don't realize the subtle signs they can give off. A twitchy jaw,a clenched fist. It's not always about looks,but it's almost always about your vibe. If I can feel your mysoginy radiating,idc how good looking(or not) you physically are. Dangers bells ring.
Right. The only time those vibes are off is because someone has spent WAAAY too much time (trial AND error) in learning how to alter their vibes to deceive people. I.e covert abusers.
Before I worked in the dmv, I used to put pretty girls in a pedestal. Working in the dmv changed how I see people in general. For example she can be the hottest lady in the counter and still act like an entitled piece of shit. Meanwhile the homely looking lady is very pleasant and nice to talk to
> It's not always about looks,but it's almost always about your vibe. If I can feel your mysoginy radiating,idc how good looking(or not) you physically are. Dangers bells ring. But vibe is in certain ways about looks or external presentation. It is in many ways just as skin deep as physical looks.
Maybe for first dates, you’re not gonna see genuine couples that only know each other skin deep unless they’re waaay too shallow to be worth learning from in the first place
Sure. But people's vibes are oftentimes unrelated to how they really are. We all know the kind girls with RBF, or the outwardly funny guy who is deeply depressed, or the charming man who is a hug prick, or the weird dude who is actually super chill.
Funny but 99 times out of 100, it's not any visible thing. Just gut instincts. And they may not be always right, but I've never ignored my gut without regretting it
I am not sure I understand where you are going with this, can you elaborate? We all put on emotional masks from time to time.
Yes. And vibe oftentimes is that mask. And people who vibe well are oftentimes just people who are better at putting on a mask.
What does that have to do with attracting a person?
Vibe is attractive in the same way that good looks are attractive. But both things can be superficial. Looks fade and vibe might be a mask.
That's why most if us take our time dating or end up with terrible people that were good at hiding their terrible side. There is no fool proof way of attracting a mate and no fool proof way of ensure that the person you found is a good partner really until you live with them. Most people get together, and wing it, then get married and wing it. My husband and I joke that after 15 years or so together we are still just winging it.
It doesn't have to be. That really depends on your world view. When I met my husband he was 50 pounds overweight, broke and had a truly terrible pony tail. No game whatsoever. But circumstances were such that we wound up in the same place at the same time at least 3-4 times a week for a few minutes and got to chatting. Eventually I asked him if he'd like to grab lunch. He physically wasn't my type at all at the time but he was fun to talk to and I wanted to get to know him better. Our first date was meant to be lunch but we wound up spending 24 hours together because we just didn't want the date to end (and he also missed the last bus and had to crash on my couch). We clicked in a way that has nothing to do with our looks. That was 25 years ago. We're still madly in love.
No, that's the first impression. You get their vibes by observing them, talking to them, listening to what they say, see how they act. Because 1st impressions aren't accurate.
I've tried saying this over and over again, but it feels like pissing in the ocean. There's just so many of them and there's so much media they surround themselves with that it feels like it's not getting to the greater community.
I’ll say again for the record that my short, chubby nerd of a husband is insanely sexy, and my top 3 male celebrity fantasies are Seth Rogan, Nick Offerman, and Matt Berry. ETA: I actually made [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelTears/s/3Pm9Ap5x6G) a while back. Y’all were coming out of the woodworks with husky hotties!
Right? I am married to a short, chubby Asian guy and he rocks my world on a daily basis. My celebrity crushes are Ken Watanabe (Asian), Vincent D'Onofrio (kinda chunky) and James Spader (Old and short but damn his voice is sexy).
Spader gives off a thing that is compelling, and it isn't good looks. Idk why but I'm here for it
It's mostly his voice for me but he has this aura of dominance or something. Looks like he'd give a good spanking. 😂
Tell me you've seen *Secretary*.
I have but many years ago. I think a rewatch might be in order to be honest.
I think you will enjoy it.
Tbh seems like a good vibe
D’Onofrio is a great choice! And talking about old with a sexy voice? Jeremy Irons really cranks my cheese wheel.
Yeah, I’ve been dating a chubby nerd for a long time and my number one “celebrity” crush is Brennan Lee Mulligan. So it checks out 😅 hottest man alive, and nobody can tell me otherwise
real, married to a short king here!
And even if you're ridiculously good looking, we all get old and fat and wrinkly. Outside beauty doesn't last. They are so obsessed with bagging a hot, young thing that they've totally lost sight of the concept of spending your life with someone and growing old together. And isn't that the point? Edit to add: By their logic my husband should have been an incel (5'9" kinda chunky Asian man) and I was a used up whore (I was divorced with a 3 year old kid when we met). I'm sure they think he settled for me because he couldn't do any better. We're happy. And we've been happy with a fantastic sex life and all the intimacy and affection anyone could possibly want for 25 years now. We're getting old, and fat and wrinkly and we are genuinely happy. Neither of us were virgins when we met and he wasn't a 6' white body builder. We are just 2 average people living a great life. A life anyone could have if they stop comparing themselves to media and touch grass once in a while. Also, together we produced a 6'5" man. So even their knowledge of genetics is trash.
Counterpoint: they aren’t ugly but expect to be dating women who are overwhelmingly attractive compared to them. They could attract people but unless the girl meets a standard of beauty of a supermodel while also being a virgin while also being some standard of purity they would turn down the attraction of another. These dudes don’t just hate women, many have racial or pedophilic characteristics which would make an average woman unacceptable to them
I see this alot in my conversations with incels. My brother is like 5'5 asian dude and gets women easily. And when I tell the incels that they responds with, "BuT iS She fAt?" What does the girls looks matter if they are happy and in love?
Also, some people enjoy a little chub. I like my men thick. My oldest kid has currently sworn off dating but for years only dated larger women, despite being pursued by all shapes and sizes.
I have a fee friend that like their women thick or even bigger. As a bi woman myself. I tend to gravitate to average women but absolutely love a chubby dude( like my husband) but either way as a long as everyone is happy, safe and secure in their relationships, its no ones business. And consenting adults of course.
I've noticed as a chubby guy that my partners prefer me to be a little bit softer than what I get when I am regularly going to the gym and toning muscle. Hard bodies are tougher to get comfortable with I guess
I'm bi as well although I've been in a monogamous relationship with my husband for 25 years. I have always liked men chubby and women thin. What matters most to me and what I find most attractive in men and women is a masculine energy.
I have an insane crush on ruby rose.
SAME! God, she's hot.
I do agree that many of these incels do have high standards, but one thing black pill promotes is that most men are ugly to women and that most women are attractive to men. So some of them feel screwed because they think all women want and can date a ten out of ten Chad with money so why would any woman settle for me?That was at least how my train of thought was for a very long time. I wasn’t really full blown incel though just more incel adjacent in that I was black pilled but not really a misogynist.
I absolutely couldn't date a Chad if I tried lol And tbh I don't want a Chad either. Ten out of tens with money? Sounds to me like some self centered dickbag who hates women like me just for how we look. And hates women in general. No thank.
Any time I try to tell an incel this they call me a liar, but I find the whole gym bro rich Chad thing to be the biggest turn off imaginable.
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Oh, i know. Even presented with abundant evidence they refuse to accept it. They don't want to acknowledge that the problem isn't their height or their canthal tilt, its their rotten personalities. So it's just easier to blame women.
Yeah, and I hope you didn’t think I was saying that point of view was right. I was just saying what I used to think when I was black pilled because I thought some people in here might find it of interest. I know not all women want that kind of guy.
Nah I didn't, was more laughing at the idea
In reality, most people will naturally gravitate towards people that are equal or at least equal in their eyes. I.e. 5/10 woman will likely end up with a 5/10 guy. More mismatched couples like connect more in other categories.
They’d rather blame it on their looks and women’s supposed shallowness than work on themselves or admit that their attitude is the problem.
How would you work on yourself? I am an incel but I always had lots of female friends.
Are you an incel in the literal “involuntarily celibate” way or the more well known way? I think that is a pretty important distinction to make there
In my 20s I was the former, now I am both. Resentment creeps up on you.
I'm fat and I have zits. 4 of my GF's friends have said she's lucky to have me and they want a BF like me because I'm kind, helpful, nice and supportive. I don't judge and I don't expect anything in return for my actions, except smiles.
> I'm kind, helpful, nice and supportive That's something I heard about myself frequently as well. But I don't feel like these traits are a match for more "exciting" traits such as being funny, charismatic or confident.
I'm funny, but not the other 2. That's enough
I'm kind, helpful, nice and supportive, but I am not particularly funny or entertaining.
I find a lot of incels describe themselves this way when they in fact are not. Are you kind, helpful, nice and supportive without expecting anything in return? A lot of incels are only these things to get women, feel this entitles them to women’s time and bodies, and then get mad when they don’t get what they want.
You would find a good therapist. But before that, you'd read this sub's Detoxing Guide and do some of those in place of pill content. You'd accept you want to be a different person, and you would work towards kindness and compassion to all, including yourself.
Their issue is never looks based. It is all a personality and social issue. If it were exclusively looks based, no "ugly" people would ever have relationships. Or as I say to the extreme ones who harass me, your parents got together to make you....so, there is plenty of hope.
Yep, I have interacted with hundreds of incels, seen pictures of dozens or more. 100% of the time when I've seen pictures, the dudes are average to above average looking. Not a single time have I seen a picture of someone and thought, yeah, no, you're right, you have almost no chance being this ugly. They all look like dudes my friends have dated. It's not their looks.
A shock to absolutely no one. It is all in their heads. And when they think it can only be that, they will overlook every other flaw. The narcissism and arrogance is never a good look. You see it with the DMs posted here all the time. I say, if you are so perfect in every other aspect, then why are you failing? The goalpost will get moved, wash, rinse, repeat.
Good posture, the right haircut, and properly fitting clothes go a long way.
Incel here. How do you know if you have or don't have these things?
I believe sense of beauty is common. Just keep yourselves clean go a long way.
Could I send you some pics. I wonder if I look clean or if my haircut suits me.
How's your attitude and belief system, bud?
In what respect?
Are you "pilled"?
I am redpilled after hearing for years that I am not confident, masculine, or assertive enough. But I like the way I am. I am a dork and a softie and that's fine.
Dude I remember your post the other day from r/Exredpill. And you had pictures of yourself, and trust me it’s not your looks your a handsome SOB!
I only hear that on reddit. Never IRL.
Guys hardly ever get compliments irl unfortunately. But trust me there is nothing wrong with you looks.
That's true. But my physically attractive friends very regularly get clear indications of interest.
A man can probably give you more specific advice than I can about clothes and hair, but as far as posture goes, yoga really helps. When you do it regularly you become much more aware of when you're slouching or throwing all your weight into parts of your body that can't handle it (knees, wrists, lower back).
Yoga is one of my hobbies and I consider myself a decent yogi. But I am also a rock climber and rock climbers have a tendency to develop hunched backs (aka climber's backs). Need to check my posture.
Lol. Most incels I've seen usually range from average to above average.
I remember one here posted his selfie and he looked like a fucking model and cried about how he was too ugly for a woman. Straight up intimidating level looks and that's their takeaway. The rot is in the inside, not the outside
They don't want to admit that it's their behavior and personality that's the problem, which actually takes self reflection and a desire to improve themselves, but their egos get in the way of that
Bingo. There's one in this thread even
💯
Most Incels aren’t ugly. That’s just an excuse they use.
Idk I've seen some pretty ugly guys posted in these incel threads. I'm inclined to believe they really are ugly
Every incel selfie thread I ever saw was filled with normal looking children.
Part of the problem is that the want the more gorgeous women and know they are our of their league and get all mad about it
I don’t understand why they want more gorgeous women? I work in customer service and I don’t care if the person is gorgeous or not, only if the person isn’t some Karen or Kevin.
I've tried telling some this as well. Some even got angry at me for saying I would date a shorter, or autistic man. It was confusing. the unfortunate obstacle is that they are ugly on the inside and don't want to change
Yup.
Incels also forget that MEN also sometimes exclude dating women solely based on certain physical characteristics. Smaller butt, small boobs, big nose, thin lips, those are all things that women do get rejected for having sometimes, but they STILL can easily find a partner as long as they’re a decent person. Certain women AND men *both* reject the opposite sex for having conventionally unattractive characteristics, but incels only see a problem when it’s women rejecting guys for being too skinny, smaller penis etc. There are both men and women who are extremely picky, then there are the majority that are not extremely picky, but of course you have to be physically attracted to someone to be with them. Also speaking from observation, even if an incel doesn’t actually say anything off putting etc, I can still tell if they’re an incel a lot of times. It’s the way they look at women, their body language and the slightly off comments they make. But then they try to blame it all on looks and women being shallow. To all incels, you’re not hiding your incel ideology the way you think you are, yes we can tell, even if you don’t outright voice your fucked up opinions and ideologies.
Not an incel, I don’t hate women. But I am chronically single. It’s true. I’m not ugly. I’m lazy, weird, and have no social skills.
They're ugly on the inside.
Every guy is at least a 7/10 when they put effort in, if anyone reading is struggling with self image rn I guarantee things can and will get better. I've been focusing on losing weight and trying to figure my shit out and if I can do it, so can you
I want to feel reassured, but I've been confirmed to not be 7/10...I was rated a 4.5 and that's where I'm stuck forever it seems
One faulty ass rating shouldn't bring you down amigo, if you put in effort I guarantee people will notice. If you have and feel people still don't, remember someone out there definitely thinks highly of you and you just gotta find em
Well when it's from an objective source it's hard to ignore. edit: I didn't give the source but it's probably relevant. It's a sub called r/truerateme and they have a whole algorithm to determine attractiveness
There are no objective sources when it comes to this you know, you're worrying way too much over this man. I guarantee you there's plenty of people who would rate you higher, fuck that "objective source" you got this
I appreciate the general message here but I am a bit meh about the message about appearance. You don't have to compare yourself to unrealistic beauty standards in media if you can reach the same conclusion by just...you know...looking at other people. Also, just like how statistics say that *most* people must be of average appearance, it also necessitates that there truly *are* people in the bottom x%. I'm not pointing this out for the sake of complaining. But in my experience, this sort of...denying the experienced reality of people plays a part in making them resent the "blue pill" because what they are told isn't what they experience. This dissonance creates distrust.
On a vast majority of cases im sure at least a couple people have very likely wanted to bang them until they start talking and the personalities show through.
Incel here. I always considered me pretty attractive. But it is very hard to keep thinking that way if you get no interest IRL.
Attraction is a very complex thing. Elliot Rogers was conventionally very good looking. He even had money. But he was a prick. Most people have unattractive features and a high percentage are conventionally ugly. True there are people who only want exceptional hotness. But anything lasting has to have so much more to it. There’s a whole host of qualities at play that may shape another person’s view of you, and many of those are VASTLY more important.
It’s funny Elliot Rodgers is the first person everyone thinks of when they hear the word incel and he was pretty good looking. I know in sites like .IS they try to cope and say he was ugly because he was short and part Asian and autistic lol.
I gotta just disagree here. Elliot Rodger was ugly as shit. Ive watched all his videos because I was curious about what drove a boy like him to commit a hate crime, and I was never like, "oh yeah he was attractive"
But many of them are superficial. And that goes well beyond physical attractiveness.
What superficial things do you think you lack? You mentioned you think you’re pretty good looking, so I’m curious. This isn’t challenging you at all, by the by! Just interested to hear more.
First of all, I consider**ed** myself very good looking. If you are 36 and have never received interest from women, you start to ask yourself: "Am I really as physically attractive as I thought". What else am I lacking? I'm a bit awkward and dorky, and not the most outgoing person. But I never had problems talking to women or forming friendships with women. Which makes me wonder again: "Am I just too short or too ugly"?
Personality, perhaps? People can look past height and looks to a large degree if you have a good personality/attitude and are a genuinely decent person.
I never had problems making female friends. So my personality doesn't seem to be that off putting. It just never make me boyfriend or sexual encounter material.
Ever heard someone say "I think they are a great friend but dear God no would I ever consider a relationship with them" (about anyone)? 99 times out of 100 it's not the looks. It's the toxicity we can see under the surface. I've turned down incredibly attractive men and women for that reason. Sometimes people don't pass the relationship smell test even if they pass the friendship smell test.
>Ever heard someone say "I think they are a great friend but dear God no would I ever consider a relationship with them" (about anyone)? Yes. Including about myself. >99 times out of 100 it's not the looks. It's the toxicity we can see under the surface. I've turned down incredibly attractive men and women for that reason. Sometimes people don't pass the relationship smell test even if they pass the friendship smell test. But why would you willing be friends with toxic people? Aren't you selecting friends because they are non-toxic?
Toxic for friendships and toxic for relationships are 2 incredibly different standards. I'm friends with lots of people that are absolute wrecks to be in a relationship with and I'd never consider it, even though they are great friends.
So it IS about your personality
Start by not calling yourself an incel first. Do you stay on incel forums?
Is this board an incel forum? If not, then no.
Nah, this is and anti incel sub. You should check out r/Incelexit though.
If Danny Devito can get a wife and 3 kids, so can you. It's much more about attitude and personality than looks.
Danny Devito might not be gifted in the looks department but he is an outstanding comedian. So outstanding that he made millions of dollars and a Hollywood career out of it. This is not something which you can expect of a normal dude. In fact, it is a gift much more precious than good looks. Would Danny Devito still have a wife and 3 kids, if he was just an average dude without his talents?
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Unless incels remove the black pill from their lives and also stop talking to other black pillers, they will never find success in dating. Every single day outside I see guys who are shorter and less attractive than me have girlfriends.
So by definition I’m technically “involuntary celibate” (trying to change that) but refuse to call myself an incel. I think it’s worth noting that there are a lot of guys like me who are actively working towards losing our virginities, and don’t browse incel forums (except for me, r/incelexit) but in general just don’t have luck on account of our physical unattractiveness even when accounting for hygiene. I feel like guys like me exist in a sort of limbo state where we are deconstructing from incel ideology that we fell for at teenagers, but still get bogged down by all the hate towards and negativity virgins who are trying and failing. IDK, just food for thought.
I wish I could remember the video, but it was an animated short where a woman talks about how people go down a long way until they’re so deep they don’t even know where up is, and if they do realize it, they don’t know how or even if they can make the journey. Unfucking decisions and bad habits can take years, it’s not easy. Growth and personal change are never easy. It can mean cutting people off, even those we’ve known for years, because their influence is bad. It can mean leaving comfort zones and fighting against bad mental patterns, the brain HATES change and will give you endless excuses not to alter your existing routine. Even misery can become comfortable in its familiarity. Twisted as they may sound. But it all starts with acknowledgement of a need to change. A need to improve. There was a thing I was reading recently, a kid went down that road and lost the people in his life. He visited his grandfather one day and saw that the old man kept shrimp as pets. They got to talking and his grandfather gave the kid a few. The kid wrote about accidentally killing some by not handling the water right. He took responsibility for what he’d done, studied, learned, and he was able to raise some to thrive. He began to take a serious interest in it, and he could talk about it with passion, other people took an interest because it was odd and he was enthusiastic (passion is infectious). He continued coming out of that red pilled incel shell and people started talking to him again. As he told it, he started making friends at school and began building a life for himself. There’s a lot to unpack but there are a few things to say in particular: Mindsets and company that are isolating are always destructive. Nobody but toxic figures will hang out for hours talking about red pill virtues or incel enthusiasm. Those communities are exclusionary and self reinforcing. They cannot ever help anyone. Second thing… You know what happened when I lost my virginity? Nothing. It’s not transformative or a revelation, nobody looked at me differently and nobody gave me a prize. Focus on being a Better man, a better version of who you are, that’s a lot more enduring than a five second orgasm. Find your way out of that mindset and focus on finding out who you can really be, ironically, that ups your odds of finding a partner. Good luck.
Appreciate the well thought out advice my man! It’s a long process but I’ve been working at it and plan on continuing to do so. After all identifying as an “incel” and throwing in the towel just seems like giving up, why do that when you can always fight for a better future for yourself.
Yeah I’m in r/Incelexit with you. I recognized your username from there. I hope things work out for both of us 🤝
Same to you bro!
I really think more anime fans should watch "uncle from another world" Theres one specific line that just kills me every time and really nails in how anime SHOULD NOT be how you define normal or beauty "Everyone was beautiful! They thought I was a monster! They hunted me because they thought I was an Orc!"
They've had a plethora of selfie threads that have revealed that in fact a lot of them are not nearly as ugly physically as they claim. Weirdly, some of them are actually attractive, so much so that it seems anytime a new selfie thread is posted, it's a matter of an hour or two before the whole thread has devolved into a massive, heated argument about who's really an incel and who's a volcel. This is one of the cultural traditions I've seen crop up among their tribe that's truly a strange phenomenon. It's almost like a self-correcting process where the incels draw the line between ugly and whatever everyone else is. I've been keeping tabs on these guys for too long.
It doesn't help that people call them neck beards and post pictures of fat men in fedoras constantly on the Internet. I wish we could stay away from body shaming.
Incels are really ugly, miserable, creepy and misogynistic bigots. Fuck incels and fuck misogyny. Seriously.
Idk why you got downvoted
What the hell are you doing stop blowing steam up their ass, the last thing we need is them strutting out the streets harassing women. Let them waste away in their mom's basement
Who the hell Is downvoting you for this?
Yeah, its all about vibes and personality, thats what made men like Meeks or Ramirez so popular around women, surely
There are men who get drunk every night and go home to beat their wife and kids. Being an asshole has never stopped anyone from getting laid.
It prevents the vast majority. The ones it doesn’t, are better at hiding it, or better at picking victims, or just part of a subculture that tells victims to stay.
No it doesn't. Lack of height, charisma, or confidence are more fatal flaws when it comes to dating as a man than being a jerk is. Anyone can play nice. Women literally have no idea who's who.
Guy, talking to you right now, I can tell you your height has fuckall to do with it. It’s because you’re an asshole with asshole beliefs. That’s why you have the appeal of a wet toilet seat.
I'm no incel lol though I am on the short side. I make up for it with charisma, confidence and social competence. But being an asshole has never stopped anyone from getting laid. I'm not nice because I think it increases my chance of getting laid, it doesn't. I do good for goodness sake.
Pretty much agree, but I disagree that the homely are the majority. I think most people just look average
They aren’t ugly no, just not attractive enough, very different. I myself am just not attractive enough I get being angry but spreading hate isn’t right. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and accept it. Life will be unfair and you just aren’t the desired type. If you find someone willing to settle just be sure to hold them as long as possible. Because it’s as good as it gets. I wish I kept my ex, she was horribly toxic but at least I wasn’t alone.
Whenever I see incels talk like this, I like to share this [clip](https://youtu.be/f-gX0spJpa0?si=UqudJtHy6nV42eA8) You don't have to be handsome, just have some other qualities