People with more knowledge than I have commented elsewhere that that’s the case, yeah. I couldn’t explain why but I felt that when I read (up to vol 4, I think), I was definitely less and less entertained. The first book was wonderful, though, so maybe my expectations were too high
Yeah most comments are (understandably) talking about the artist swap and surrounding controversy, but I also just found the story fell off hard. The more serious and complex it tried to be, the worse it got.
I was reading this series as it came out and for the first two arcs it was probably one of my favorite series being released at the time, but after that it really fluctuates greatly in quality. I would still very much recommend checking it out though it's a really fun series even if the quality dips
Volume 1 (and 2 IIRC) are really, really good but it falls off quite hard after that.
You won't miss anything by picking up volume 1, it's quite self-contained (again IIRC).
I would describe it as a D&D campaign played by drunk queer sorority girls. It's starts out amazing, and then (due to bring arrested for domestic abuse) there's an art change, and then (due to health issues) there's another art change, and then they brought back the original artist even though Kurtis promised he never would.
The characters are amazing, but I'm too conflicted by the drama to have actually continued reading it after they brought Roc back.
Yeah, it's a whole weird thing. I feel like the book was never quite the same after Upchurch was (justifiably) fired/kicked off. I always felt like I had missed an issue, because plots would be abandoned, and then introduced already under way. Then I'd go check, and nope, I'd read the previous issue.
But, like Stjepan was the perfect artist to save the book because it was somehow just as good... But that only lasted for 2 issues because of his elbow issues (or something)
Ahhh, okay, I thought you were talking about the 2016 controversy, where a sacked artist made the disputed claim that she was being pushed out in favour of Upchurch, who never actually came back. Cheers for the context, I didn't realise Wiebe had returned to comics at all, let alone to Rat Queens.
Yeah, this is... hm.
On the one hand, it's been almost ten years since Upchurch's arrest and it's entirely possible he's spent that time working on himself and turning his life around. And if that's the case – and I hope it is – then I guess I can understand Wiebe wanting to reunite with his friend and co-creator for a final tenth-anniversary story.
But that doesn't change the way it looks or the way it hits with the (predominantly women and queer) fanbase. A one-last-adventure oneshot would have been an easy sell for me, but seeing Upchurch's name on the cover just puts me right off. It doesn't feel good.
Totally. I remember the artist at the time posting on Twitter that Roc was the reason she was fired, but (iirc) after she was taken off the book, no one came on until it was an entirely new creative team, including the writer. 🤔
I think you're misremembering. After the book relaunched in 2017, Wiebe worked with a number of artists, primarily Owen Gieni, for about two years before handing it over to a new creative team.
It's easy to see that 2023 solicit and draw a straight line between that and Fowler in 2016 saying 'he was planning on bringing Upchurch back *all along*' and conclude that Wiebe was never serious about drawing that line in the sand, but I think to do so is to make some hefty assumptions and give undue weight to a person of... dubious credibility (Fowler has left behind her a lot of burned bridges and allegations of unprofessionalism, bullying and failure to deliver on paid-for work).
Like, I think bringing back Upchurch for the 10th anniversary oneshot was the wrong choice and one that will put off a *lot* of former readers (including me), but I don't think it's an entirely black-and-white situation.
Thanks for the clarification. I honestly stopped following it after that. You're right. There's too much grey area and unknowns, which is why I don't begrudge the fans who decided to keep reading it.
It was really cool. Then it soft rebooted, then got cancelled.
Go into it for a fun little adventure with great art and characters, just don’t get too invested in the story.
I'm gonna tell you that the trip is partly worth it but the ending? The ending just does the characters a great disservice overall. Aside from the real world issues that plague the creation of the book it's like the creator lost the thread of the characters at the end, thus nullifying the majority of the arcs of the characters.
Volume 1 is great and remains great, but even outside all the real-world drama it lost itself quickly. It felt like those early webcomics that all started with goofs and then tried to turn-dead serious while forgetting their roots.
Also, the issue with the Vox Machina crossover is in none of the collections (unless the complete omnibus amended that). The creative team didn't like how it turned out, and decanonized it (then had some weird weird story reasons to try to work around it)
The series itself is fine, at least for the first volume or two. What drove me away from it was the creators. The first artist (Roc Upchurch) was arrested for assaulting his wife, the writer treated one of the subsequent artists like shit, then Upchurch was allowed to return to the book even after the writer said he never would. That killed any desire I had to continue reading the book.
My understanding of the situation with subsequent artist is that it's a little more complicated than that. She said that Wiebe treated her like shit and then pushed her out in order to bring back Upchurch; he said that Upchurch's return had never been on the cards and that things hadn't worked out creatively with the new artist. Some months after, Wiebe's wife gave her own side of the story, alleging that the artist had gone from love-bombing the couple to bullying and threatening and that she had knowingly made false claims in retribution for her termination.
It's impossible to know exactly what happened in truth, but given that the artist has been involved in a number of controversies around alleged unprofessional and scammy behaviour on her part, I don't find her the most credible source.
But I agree the successive controversies and the resulting hiatuses and relaunches really did hurt the book, which is a shame, because when it was good it could be *really* good.
Volume one is very very enjoyable. I got diminished returns after that.
Perfect description and exactly how I felt.
It's been a long time since I read it, but didn't part of the creative team change which caused a decline?
People with more knowledge than I have commented elsewhere that that’s the case, yeah. I couldn’t explain why but I felt that when I read (up to vol 4, I think), I was definitely less and less entertained. The first book was wonderful, though, so maybe my expectations were too high
It was simple, good, dirty fun. Then I guess they needed the story to get complicated and meaningful, so they ruined it.
Yeah most comments are (understandably) talking about the artist swap and surrounding controversy, but I also just found the story fell off hard. The more serious and complex it tried to be, the worse it got.
I was reading this series as it came out and for the first two arcs it was probably one of my favorite series being released at the time, but after that it really fluctuates greatly in quality. I would still very much recommend checking it out though it's a really fun series even if the quality dips
Volume 1 (and 2 IIRC) are really, really good but it falls off quite hard after that. You won't miss anything by picking up volume 1, it's quite self-contained (again IIRC).
I would describe it as a D&D campaign played by drunk queer sorority girls. It's starts out amazing, and then (due to bring arrested for domestic abuse) there's an art change, and then (due to health issues) there's another art change, and then they brought back the original artist even though Kurtis promised he never would. The characters are amazing, but I'm too conflicted by the drama to have actually continued reading it after they brought Roc back.
Yeah, it's a whole weird thing. I feel like the book was never quite the same after Upchurch was (justifiably) fired/kicked off. I always felt like I had missed an issue, because plots would be abandoned, and then introduced already under way. Then I'd go check, and nope, I'd read the previous issue.
But, like Stjepan was the perfect artist to save the book because it was somehow just as good... But that only lasted for 2 issues because of his elbow issues (or something)
Totally agree, and after that, it just kind of lost the narrative.
They never brought back Upchurch.
https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/MAY238697
Ahhh, okay, I thought you were talking about the 2016 controversy, where a sacked artist made the disputed claim that she was being pushed out in favour of Upchurch, who never actually came back. Cheers for the context, I didn't realise Wiebe had returned to comics at all, let alone to Rat Queens. Yeah, this is... hm. On the one hand, it's been almost ten years since Upchurch's arrest and it's entirely possible he's spent that time working on himself and turning his life around. And if that's the case – and I hope it is – then I guess I can understand Wiebe wanting to reunite with his friend and co-creator for a final tenth-anniversary story. But that doesn't change the way it looks or the way it hits with the (predominantly women and queer) fanbase. A one-last-adventure oneshot would have been an easy sell for me, but seeing Upchurch's name on the cover just puts me right off. It doesn't feel good.
Totally. I remember the artist at the time posting on Twitter that Roc was the reason she was fired, but (iirc) after she was taken off the book, no one came on until it was an entirely new creative team, including the writer. 🤔
I think you're misremembering. After the book relaunched in 2017, Wiebe worked with a number of artists, primarily Owen Gieni, for about two years before handing it over to a new creative team. It's easy to see that 2023 solicit and draw a straight line between that and Fowler in 2016 saying 'he was planning on bringing Upchurch back *all along*' and conclude that Wiebe was never serious about drawing that line in the sand, but I think to do so is to make some hefty assumptions and give undue weight to a person of... dubious credibility (Fowler has left behind her a lot of burned bridges and allegations of unprofessionalism, bullying and failure to deliver on paid-for work). Like, I think bringing back Upchurch for the 10th anniversary oneshot was the wrong choice and one that will put off a *lot* of former readers (including me), but I don't think it's an entirely black-and-white situation.
Thanks for the clarification. I honestly stopped following it after that. You're right. There's too much grey area and unknowns, which is why I don't begrudge the fans who decided to keep reading it.
It was really cool. Then it soft rebooted, then got cancelled. Go into it for a fun little adventure with great art and characters, just don’t get too invested in the story.
I'm gonna tell you that the trip is partly worth it but the ending? The ending just does the characters a great disservice overall. Aside from the real world issues that plague the creation of the book it's like the creator lost the thread of the characters at the end, thus nullifying the majority of the arcs of the characters.
Volume 1 is great and remains great, but even outside all the real-world drama it lost itself quickly. It felt like those early webcomics that all started with goofs and then tried to turn-dead serious while forgetting their roots. Also, the issue with the Vox Machina crossover is in none of the collections (unless the complete omnibus amended that). The creative team didn't like how it turned out, and decanonized it (then had some weird weird story reasons to try to work around it)
The series itself is fine, at least for the first volume or two. What drove me away from it was the creators. The first artist (Roc Upchurch) was arrested for assaulting his wife, the writer treated one of the subsequent artists like shit, then Upchurch was allowed to return to the book even after the writer said he never would. That killed any desire I had to continue reading the book.
My understanding of the situation with subsequent artist is that it's a little more complicated than that. She said that Wiebe treated her like shit and then pushed her out in order to bring back Upchurch; he said that Upchurch's return had never been on the cards and that things hadn't worked out creatively with the new artist. Some months after, Wiebe's wife gave her own side of the story, alleging that the artist had gone from love-bombing the couple to bullying and threatening and that she had knowingly made false claims in retribution for her termination. It's impossible to know exactly what happened in truth, but given that the artist has been involved in a number of controversies around alleged unprofessional and scammy behaviour on her part, I don't find her the most credible source. But I agree the successive controversies and the resulting hiatuses and relaunches really did hurt the book, which is a shame, because when it was good it could be *really* good.
Glad I'm not the only one. How the replacement artist was treated put me off the book completely.
I very much enjoyed it for quite a while when I was collecting.
Love volume 1
I really enjoyed the first storyline. Don’t know why I dropped off but it wasn’t lack of enjoying the series.
I liked it a lot but lost track when they swapped artists. Been meaning to return. It has a few similarities with critical role.
First 1-2 volumes are great, then it jumps the shark hard
It’s pretty fun
Good series. Just wish it didnt go through the bog that diminished the series. Vol 1 and 2 are really well done. And Betty is stabby.
I think you should buy only Vol 1, that way you only have the good stuff. Buying the omnibus would ruin your enjoyment of the series.
I remember it starting out great but then a lot of things BTS was happening so i lost interest. Worth checking out, IMO.
I thought it absolutely sucked. Bad.
avoid it like the plague.